#i made this scene (or set w.e you want to call it) MONTHS ago and was going to have my horvath sim posed with the demon things.............
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Episode 21: Walk the Line & The Impossible
Both
Welcome to The Costume Plot.
Jojo
I'm Jojo Siu.
Sarah
And I’m Sarah Timm. We're professional designers with a passion for costume design and the performing arts. Our podcast does contain spoilers. Accompanying slideshows for each movie are linked in the episode description.
Jojo
We hope you'll join us every other week as we delve into the wonderful world of costume design in The Costume Plot. [music]
Sarah
Hello!
Jojo
Hello, welcome back.
Sarah
How's it going?
Jojo
Yay. We actually recorded more often this month, and I still feel like it's been forever. [both laugh]
Sarah
I know! We're curring it fine again, too, where we're not that long from release. But that's okay. We have time. It's great. Here we are. We made it.
Jojo
Sorry. It's been a busy month.
Sarah
Jojo's had a lot going on. But we're glad. I'm glad you've made it. Here you are.
Jojo
Thanks. Still surviving somehow. [laughs]
Sarah
Yeah. So I have a thing that I want to talk about at the top of the show today. It's a little bit of self promotion. So I hope our listeners are okay with that. I am competing in the Her Universe Fashion Show, as you guys might know. And it's virtual this year, and there is an audience vote. [editor's note: Votes are now closed! I didn't win!] So I'm campaigning for votes right now! I need your vote. [laughs]
Jojo
Yay!
Sarah
If I win, if I win, I get the chance to design a line with Her Universe that gets sold in Hot Topic. So it's a really big deal. My look is "Hamilton"-inspired. And if you listen to the show, you know I am a big fan of "Hamilton".
Jojo
Yes.
Sarah
I'm really proud of it. And I got to shoot in a theater, like an abandoned theater, from the 20s. So like, I'm just so excited. So all the links that I have so far will be in the description of this episode. We haven't given been giving a lot information. It's on... I'll back up. It's on July 23. [laughs] At 5pm pacific time.
Jojo
Very important.
Sarah
Yeah, that's the important information. And it's part of Comic-Con@Home, San Diego Comic Con. And so we don't have any specific links for where to watch it yet. But I do have a link that will hopefully be updated as the info gets released. And then that will hopefully also have voting stuff. But yes, please watch. And then please vote for me, if you like my look.
Jojo
Yay! Definitely vote for Sarah.
Sarah
Thank you so much.
Jojo
I'm so excited to see it in person.
Sarah
I'm so excited too.
Jojo
I've only been seeing snippets of it.
Sarah
I know. If you follow me on social media, I've been trying my best to kind of like build some suspense. I made a little trailer in iMovie. I'm doing the thing.
Jojo
I saw that. I love it.
Sarah
I'm working hard on trying to get people interested, because I mean... more power to them, but I'm competing against some people who have multiple thousands of followers. Like, 25-100k. So I gotta find a way to stand out, you know, when I don't have that big of a fan base.
Jojo
Mmhmm. Right.
Sarah
Which, like, I'm excited for them that they have that. I just don't.
Jojo
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Sarah
So.
Jojo
We'll get there eventually.
Sarah
I mean, maybe I'll win and then I'll be... my followers will just "whoosh!"... through the roof.
Jojo
That would be great.
Sarah
So then I'm Instagram famous. [both laugh] Okay. Yeah.
Jojo
Perfect. Onto our theme!
Sarah
Our theme this week! I'm going first this week, our theme is... are we calling this "based on real life events"? Is that what we're...?
Jojo
I think so. I think that's what we ended up deciding, like, based on true events.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
And however loosely that is, that is true.
Sarah
Yeah. So real people or real historical events. So I chose "Walk the Line". Because I'm not usually a biopic person. I often find them to be a little bit... I don't wanna say "heavy handed," but it's sort of like they're always sort of Oscar-bait movies. And they're really melodramatic sometimes, but I really like "Walk the Line". And I'm not even a giant Johnny Cash fan. I just love this movie.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
I think I also just really love Reese Witherspoon. So that helps a lot. She's...
Jojo
She's pretty great.
Sarah
...one of my faves. Okay, so I'll just dive in. It was released in 2005. So I was like, you know... it still feels like a very current movie to me, but it's very much not. Because that was...
Jojo
I know, I forget how far away 2005 was. Like, that really wasn't that long ago, but...
Sarah
Once again, just facing our own mortality on this show. Going, "What? ...Okay."
Jojo
How have we passed this many years already?
Sarah
[laughs] Exactly. It was directed by James Mangold, who is a very prolific director. He's done "Logan," "Ford v. Ferrari," "3:10 to Yuma," "Girl, Interrupted," and he's also a producer. So he produced "Greatest Showman," lots of blockbuster movies. And the costumes were designed by Arianne Phillips, who works a lot with James Mangold. So she designed a lot of those movies that I just mentioned, in addition to "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood," "Kingsman: The Golden Circle," "Nocturnal Animals," which I heard is not a very good movie, but the costumes are great. [laughs]
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And then she also has a really long-standing working relationship with Madonna. So she has styled basically everything Madonna has done, like in the last...
Jojo
That's amazing.
Sarah
...decade, at least. So, good for her. That's great.
Jojo
Yeah, exactly.
Sarah
Oh, and she also did a couple of really iconic movies that I haven't even seen. But if I can... I can imagine the looks from them. So those are "Tank Girl" and "The Crow". And I'm like...
Jojo
[gasps] Ooooh.
Sarah
...I know both of those visually, even though I haven't seen them.
Jojo
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah
So she's done a lot of great work.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
She has been nominated for three Oscars, one for "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood," one for "W.E.,", which makes sense, because didn't Madonna direct that?
Jojo
I think so.
Sarah
And then this movie. And she has not won an Oscar yet, but she probably will eventually.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
And she has been nominated for a lot of Costume Designers' Guild Awards, and she won one for "W.E.". And then she also has a Tony for "Hedwig and the Angry Inch" on Broadway, because I think she did the movie as well.
Jojo
Oh yeah, I forgot she did that one. Yeah.
Sarah
Yeah. So it's cool... I like when-- it happened with my movie last week, too, where the designers also got to design the stage adaptation of the movie that they designed. I think that's cool. Okay, so the movie itself was in part based on two autobiographies, "Man in Black" from 1975, and "Cash: the Autobiography" from 1997. Although they say that the film goes deeper into some painful sort of subjects that Johnny Cash himself didn't really dive into in those books.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
I don't really have any other like background on the movie itself. I think they were trying to get it made for a really long time. And it just like, finally happened in 2005. So let me share my screen. I have a lot of pictures this week. So I think that, you know, I'll obviously put all of them on Pinterest, but I might have to weed out a few for Instagram, or I might have to do two posts, we'll kind of see how I feel.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
Partly because I have some real life pictures, as you can see, to compare to the movie.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And then also because we go through, like, three decades. We go from the 40s through to the late 60s. So there's a lot of periods being represented.
Jojo
A lot of period wear.
Sarah
I don't know why put this one first. That doesn't go first. That's not it. [both laugh] That one's first. Okay, so we open in 1944. I mean, basically, the story of this movie is Johnny Cash's life, which is... he starts growing up in rural Arkansas. And he loses his older brother very young, in a tablesaw accident, which is really sad. And it seems like it informs a lot of his life, and his trauma, throughout the movie.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
And then he joins the military and gets married. And then he kind of hits it big in music. And then it's basically just about his musical career, and also his struggle with drugs and alcohol. And then also his eventual relationship with June Carter, who he falls in love with when he's already married to his first wife. And he doesn't exactly stay faithful to her. But then he and June...
Jojo
[laughs] As we well know.
Sarah
[laughs] Yeah. He and June eventually do get married. And, you know, after the events of this movie, they were married for like 35 years. Until they both passed away. So that's the story. It's Johnny Cash's life. Okay. So here we are in 1940s Arkansas, and I like these sort of first scenes, they're very warm in color, I feel like. Everything looks kind of dusty, but also really hot, you know, and it kind of sets the mood of this. They're very poor. So this is him and his brother, he... Johnny is on the left. And when he's young, he goes by the name JR. And he has a lot of guilt because his brother, he says, is the good son. Basically, his brother wants to be a preacher and is really good at minding his parents and is really helpful, and JR just feels lesser-than, like he's not as good as his brother. So.... Oh, also his dad is abusive. And his dad even says, after his brother dies, he says, "God took the wrong son," basically.
Jojo
Mmhmm. Yeah.
Sarah
So that's gonna really impart some trauma on your child, to say something like that.
Jojo
Just a little bit.
Sarah
Just a little bit. Yeah, so this is them going fishing. And their little relationship is so cute, they're clearly very close. And so it's even more heartbreaking that one of them dies. And then this is his mom, who is the one who teaches him to sing and stuff. And this is... oh, I have this, and I was thinking about cutting it, but I have a picture of her later in the movie. So I wanted to compare, you know, her. Because she's not in a lot in the movie. But we see her go through a big change, you know, after Johnny is successful and is probably like, paying for her to have a happy life. A happy, comfortable life later in life.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
So, yeah... oh... yeah, I put these in a dumb order. Okay, this one. [both laugh] Sometimes I label them wrong.
Jojo
I do the same thing.
Sarah
So this is Johnny thing after he goes and serves in Germany. And that's kind of like... not really focused on in the movie. But... this is... he has a job, basically, as a door to door salesman, and he's not doing a very good job at it. So this outfit really says to me a real lack of personality, because he hasn't really found who he is yet. He hasn't found his own identity. He hasn't found even-- he knows that he likes to sing. But he hasn't really let himself think that maybe he could be a successful music artist.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
And also, when he first tries, when he first starts a band, they do exclusively gospel music. And the radio guy who they meet with is like, "Gospel music doesn't sell anymore. What do you have?" And so he like, on a whim, plays him... the famous song about shooting man in Reno. Can't remember what it's called. [editor's note: "Folsom Prison Blues"]
Jojo
You're asking the wrong person, I'm so bad with names. [laughs]
Sarah
I don't know.
Jojo
I know what you're talking about, though.
Sarah
I honestly... "I hear a train a-comin'." I don't know. Anyway, I really liked this soundtrack in high school when it came out.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
I just don't remember the names of the songs. So this is them playing for that radio guy.
Jojo
Mmm.
Sarah
And it's not really communicated why he chose black. But black becomes, obviously, his signature color. Maybe it's just like, they all had black in their wardrobe. So they were like, "let's all just wear black."
Jojo
Right. Pretty standard color.
Sarah
Yeah. And his wife says, "It looks like you're going to a funeral." And throughout the movie, people tell him that. And he's like, "maybe I am."
Jojo
[laughs] "Maybe that's exactly what I'm doing."
Sarah
Let's see. So there's an LA Times article that's an interview with Arianne Phillips, and she says, "You can read a lot into it. Black is a very humble color, and Cash was a working man's man. He was also an outsider who didn't belong to the rock world, or the country world. And there was something shocking at the time about wearing all black. It's what you wore to funerals. So it worked for him on many levels." So he just becomes... he becomes the man in black, you know.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
This is his wife, Vivian. And I have a lot to say about her.
Jojo
[laughs]
Sarah
Because... so she's played by Ginnifer Goodwin, who we can see here, I like this. I really like this pattern of this gingham with the stripe, with the cardigan on top.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
I pulled it because it's like my favorite look of hers. But I want to talk about stuff that isn't even costume related when it comes to her character. So his wife, Vivian, let's get into it. She was...
Jojo
[laughs] Let's dive deep.
Sarah
I'm ready. She was a mixed race woman. And I found this out because a Twitter thread came across my page recently where it was like, "can't believe they cast Ginnifer Goodwin to play a black woman," basically. And I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, what are we talking about here?" So I did some research. Her grandparents were from Italy. And then Vivian, according to her at the time, her grandmother--I mean, her mother's family--was like, German and Irish.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
So in real life, Vivian was photographed at a court hearing with Johnny when he was arrested for drug possession. And in the photo, she looks darker skinned than him. And so at the time, I found an article... oh, in the Washington Post, and it said, "at the time in the eyes of most Americans, you were either black or you weren't." And interracial marriage would not become legal until 1967. So leaders of the racist National State's Rights Party in Alabama ran an article in their newspaper "exposing" Johnny for having a "Negro" wife, basically being like, "they're trying to hide the fact that she's black."
Jojo
Ahh. Right.
Sarah
And they were connected to the KKK, this organization was, and they boycotted him for like a year. So he had to basically file a counter attack and sue them for this, because Vivian at the time thought that she was white. She had gone to all white schools, and on her birth certificate, marriage certificate, it says Caucasian, because...
Jojo
Ah, right.
Sarah
That's what their whole family thought they were. So in THIS year, February of 2021, Roseanne Cash--Johnny's daughter, who is also a country star in her own right--went on the show "Finding Your Roots". Which is about genealogy and DNA tracing.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
And they found that Vivian Cash's--so Vivian, the wife's--maternal great great grandmother was an enslaved black woman named Sarah Shields, whose white Father, in 1848, had "granted her and her eight siblings their freedom and their passage into whiteness." So she married a white man. And by the time Jim Crow arrived in the 1930s, all of her children and their descendants were listed as white. So...
Jojo
Wow.
Sarah
...she had basically erased her own blackness, Sarah Shields did, from her descendants.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
So Vivian Cash did not even know that she had a black ancestor.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
So, I was ready to come on the podcast and be like, "Can you believe they whitewashed this character?" But in 2005...
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
...we were still taking Vivian's word for it--and her whole family's word for it--that she didn't have any black relatives.
Jojo
Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah
So isn't that interesting? [laughs]
Jojo
That's so crazy. Like to, I mean, to not know that, too. I feel like...
Sarah
I know.
Jojo
...that's such a huge part of your identity, to not know for your entire-- I mean, for your adult life too, not even... like, it's one thing if you didn't know as a kid, because you just didn't know any better. But to have have that all throughout your adulthood, like, that's crazy.
Sarah
Yeah, it probably made the real Vivian's life easier that she had been passing, you know?
Jojo
Oh, yeah. Right.
Sarah
But it is kind of heartbreaking to know that, like, this enslaved woman's story wasn't known until now.
Jojo
Yeah. Until many, many, many years later.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
That's crazy!
Sarah
I know! So I just thought it was really interesting. The other thing I'll say about this character is that... this is the thing I don't like about biopics. It's that there's often, in the stories of great men--like, genius men--there's often a first wife or a first girlfriend who is just seen as a long-suffering wife, who has his children. But basically, the audience is kind of meant to see her as a complainer who's holding him back from achieving his destiny.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
And I definitely think that she serves that role in this movie. And it kind of is a disservice to her, because they were married for like 12 years.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And probably a lot of those years were really difficult for her. So I think it sucks for her to just be portrayed as like, she's holding him back from being the real Johnny Cash, and also holding him back from his relationship with June, which is also problematic.
Jojo
Right, right. I think that's a lot of biopics, too, it's like, you know.... Oh, you're right. She definitely... she definitely looks like she has some sort of Black in her history.
Sarah
Yeah, she looks darker skinned. And like, you know, at the time, she was probably just like, "Oh, I have olive tone. I have Italian, you know, Mediterranean DNA."
Jojo
Right, right. Right.
Sarah
Yeah. So that's the real life Vivian and Johnny. Okay.
Jojo
So interesting.
Sarah
I know, right? So I... that just kind of gave me the lesson of, like: don't get mad about things you see on Twitter without actually reading what they're about. [laughs]
Jojo
Do the research first.
Sarah
Yeah. All right. Moving on. Moving on. So this is Jerry Lee Lewis, and I love him. He's sort of... he has a more flamboyant style, obviously. My brother was watching this movie with me and said he looked really 70s, and I could agree with that.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
Even though this is the 50s at this point. He has sort of, like, unbuttoned... very rakish hair. And then this is him in real life. So I feel like it's a pretty good job casting.
Jojo
Ohh. Yeah.
Sarah
Okay, let's talk about June because let's get to the main event, honestly.
Jojo
Yeah!
Sarah
This is a picture of Reese on set. So her hair is not... like, I think her hair is in rollers.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And she's just walking to or from. But this is the best picture I could find of this whole dress. There's not a lot of really good high quality pictures out there.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
And Arianne talks about this costume. So she says for June Carter Cash, she referenced 1950s Howdy Doody culture and Minnie Pearl, who... I don't know really who that is. Didn't Google it. "She found her talisman for the character at the Santa Monica Vintage Expo, a ruffled red organza dress with a sweetheart neckline and Swiss dot overlay," that she wears in basically her first scene. And they had to rework it, and redo it, because it was rotting, apparently.
Jojo
Ohh.
Sarah
So I wonder if that means that they replaced the whole lining, or did they take a pattern off it and basically make a replica? Unclear. Yeah. And she says, "the dress summed up for me the place that June Carter comes from as a child performer, as this comedic character at the Grand Ole Opry. I knew we would see her transform into a woman but the starting point was this cartoonish country girl." So June says in the movie that her sisters are the pretty ones and the talented ones, and that she had to learn to be funny.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
And so we can see, sort of, it's a little immature and young-looking, and definitely sort of cartoony.
Jojo
Mmhmm. Very comedic.
Sarah
Yes, exactly. Here is that dress onstage. And they said... I watched an interview with her on YouTube as well. She said that they did a screen test in this video.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
And the... not the network. The... the studio! That's the word I'm looking for. [both laugh] The studio got worried because the sleeves were really poofy. And it was just this sort of... it was more cartoony than they were originally... thinking.
Jojo
...Expecting. Yeah.
Sarah
Yeah. And when you book a name as big as Reese Witherspoon, the studio definitely wants Reese Witherspoon's fans to come to the movie and see Reese Witherspoon.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
Like, people are expecting to recognize her. So they don't want the costume to swallow her and be all that people can focus on. So...
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
...studio notes are often like, "Oh, make the lead sexier," or "tone this down."
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And I think that they took some extra ruffles off the sleeves from what it originally looked like. But it looks pretty-- they showed some footage of the screen test and it looks pretty much the same.
Jojo
Mmhmm. I mean, they still kept that poof sleeve too. I feel like there's still that. It doesn't take away enough from her, that you're not like, "oh, who is that?" Or like, "I'm so distracted."
Sarah
Yeah. Exactly. Agreed. So this is Johnny onstage. And he goes... we see a few of his sort of onstage outfits before he starts only wearing black. It seems like he started wearing exclusively black on stage in the 60s. So this is him in the 50s, it's this lovely red- burgundy.
Jojo
Yeah. Oooh.
Sarah
I like that.
Jojo
Does he have a design on his lapel too?
Sarah
Oh, it... does it say JC?
Jojo
Or J... oh yeah, that's pretty cool.
Sarah
It's hard to find pictures of this movie, which is surprising.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
Like, I always expect, if it was nominated for costumes, that I'll be able to find really good pictures of the costumes.
Jojo
That's what you would think!
Sarah
Not so much.
Jojo
Nope.
Sarah
So this is June later on when they're on tour. And they're kind of just walking through town, having some time off. And so we see this in contrast to her stage persona, her real life wardrobe is a lot more subdued. It's still very sweet and feminine, but it's definitely more grown up, and as she goes through the movie, it definitely gets more and more grown up as she evolves and comes into her own. Oh... do have a picture? I don't think I do. So in the interview Arianne said she found an orange and green flowered dress, a vintage one, because apparently the budget was pretty small for this.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
So she used a lot of actual vintage, borrowed... you know, found for cheap. And one of them she found, she found an actual picture of June Carter Cash in that exact same dress! Like, she found the actual dress.
Jojo
Oooh. Yeah.
Sarah
But I couldn't figure out which dress it was, because she wears two that are orange and green floral. [laughs]
Jojo
"Which one?!"
Sarah
And it's not this one, but they're later in the movie. So I think I got rid of the pictures because I was like, "I don't know which one it is." So I can't really hold this up and be like, "See?"
Jojo
[laughs] Right. Right.
Sarah
So that was frustrating.
Jojo
I do love the floral motif that she has on a lot of her stuff.
Sarah
Yeah, I like the colors that she wears too. She doesn't stick to certain colors.
Jojo
Right. Right.
Sarah
I would say generally it's pretty warm. She does wear a little bit of blue. But yeah, it's just like a nice... you know, wardrobe.
Jojo
Fun. I would wear this skirt.
Sarah
Yeah, it's cute.
Jojo
If I wore skirts more often. [laughs]
Sarah
I wear too many skirts. Like, when I go to thrift stores I go to the skirts first and I ended up with... I have so many of them, and I keep buying them because I love them. Anyway.
Jojo
[laughs] They're great.
Sarah
So this is her onstage singing later in the movie. I think we might be moving into late 50s at this point. And then I have a full body shot of this. So once again with a floral motif.
Jojo
So cute!
Sarah
I know, right? She's got a little bit of a bouffant happening.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
And this is definitely more streamlined in silhouette than that frilly one was at the beginning. So she's moving away from her cartoony image and into more of a serious singer.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
This is her onstage again. Once again, could not find great picture. I found some on a mannequin.
Jojo
So sad!
Sarah
I think it was auctioned, so here's this.
Jojo
So cute.
Sarah
And I thought, looking at this picture of her onstage, that it was beaded.
Jojo
Yeah, I was gonna say that's what I thought too.
Sarah
Yeah, cuz it's sparkly. But I found this, and you can see that it's like a metallic embroidery?
Jojo
Oh, yeah. It's almost like a trim.
Sarah
Yeah, it's very sparkly, but it's not actually beads. It's the fabric.
Jojo
I wonder if it's real metal, because you know how they used to have that on some of the trims?
Sarah
Right.
Jojo
That's probably what's creating that extra sparkle
Sarah
Could totally be. Okay, so what's next? We're moving into.... Okay, I have this picture, it's called "John is a mess."
Jojo
[laughs]
Sarah
Because he's a mess. This is when he basically has lost everything, he had a breakdown on stage. He's drinking too much. He's doing drugs. Vivian has left him at this point. So he's living in this nasty apartment.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
And he's wearing this, it looks like a tux shirt, because of the pleats.
Jojo
Oh, yeah.
Sarah
But it's clearly very... he hasn't showered, it's very yellowed. Looking pretty gross. And then... oh, I liked this. Because we got to see some period children's wear. This is an upsetting scene, as you can see, the children are crying. [laughs] But...
Jojo
It's so funny to me, because it's always those little scenes of children that we're always like, "Okay, we HAVE to get these images." Because you just don't see them very often.
Sarah
I love period children's wear!
Jojo
I know. It's great.
Sarah
Children look so cute in vintage clothes.
Jojo
So cute. I can't wait.
Sarah
I was at a party the other day and one of the kids running around was wearing... it looked like a little Oktoberfest dirndl, but it was vintage.
Jojo
Yes!
Sarah
It was like a three year old girl wearing a vintage dress.
Jojo
Love that.
Sarah
And I was like, "that girl looks so good."
Jojo
On point, mom! On point.
Sarah
I know. I was like, "you're doing it correctly." I love that. Yeah, I mean... I haven't anything to say about them. They're just cute. And I like seeing period kid's clothes.
Jojo
Yeah. Yep. Agreed.
Sarah
Okay, how am I doing on time? I'm doing great on time! Yay.
Jojo
Woohoo!
Sarah
This is Thanksgiving, later when Johnny is starting to get his act together, but hasn't quite. But he invites basically his parents and then June and her parents, and it ends up getting very awkward because his dad is very... his dad sucks, basically, his dad is really mean. But this is in the 60s, as you can see from the hair, and such. [laughs]
Jojo
Yep.
Sarah
And on the left here, this is Johnny's mom. So she's gone through a big transformation since we saw her in the 40s, of course. She has money. She's hopefully happier, even though her husband sucks.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And then June in the middle is... oh, I have this dress. Here it is.
Jojo
So beautiful.
Sarah
It's pretty.
Jojo
It's that lantern sleeve that I love again!
Sarah
I know, we love a lantern sleeve.
Jojo
So funny. I keep seeing that everywhere. I'm like, "just looks good every time I see it."
Sarah
It does. And also, in my opinion, it's timeless.
Jojo
Yeah, I agree. It's a really elegant look.
Sarah
Yes.
Jojo
Especially, I mean, most of the ones I've seen happen to be transparent or some kind of see-through material. So maybe I'm just a little more biased, but I just think it looks really nice. And it's just, I don't know, it's kind of secretive and seductive while also being classy.
Sarah
Yeah, you're covered up, but you're not.
Jojo
Right, exactly.
Sarah
Totally. So this dress is, I think it's probably chiffon. It's this gorgeous burgundy. It looks so good with her brown hair.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And it's totally free of surface decoration, you know? So it's like her final sort of evolution into a more mature adult woman. And then, I would say, we talk a lot about how in period movies you can kind of tell what era they're made in, because they don't quite go all the way to the period.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
And I think that we can see that in Reese's hair for a lot of the movie, and probably a little bit in the makeup too, because her makeup looks pretty modern for the time in a lot of the shots, like this one right here. I mean, she has a maybe a little liquid eyeliner on. And the lipstick is definitely pink. You know, that's definitely a 50s/60s color. But...
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
I think the way she's styled, they clearly wanted to make sure ...like I said, the studio wanted to make sure that people saw her.
Jojo
...It was a good enough balance that it still felt like it could relate to contemporary audience.
Sarah
Exactly. They don't want to make... they don't want to alienate her from her audience by making her look too removed from the Reese that we know and love. So I think that that's a pretty good balance, actually, that they struck, because this hairstyle is pretty period looking. But it's also... it also looks kind of 2005, so there's that.
Jojo
Yeah, seriously.
Sarah
All right. Oh, I was close to cutting this picture. But I was like, "couldn't possibly do it." This coat.
Jojo
I love it. Love it so much.
Sarah
So good.
Jojo
I do love a good pea coat. in general.
Sarah
It's... I love all coats. I love codes from all periods. I think everybody looks good in coats. I like summer a lot, but I will say some of my best outfits involve a jacket, because I love jackets and coats.
Jojo
Yeah. That's why I miss fall so much. All the pea coats you can wear.
Sarah
This is when she she takes him to... she's basically helping him get his his life together. And she takes him to church. So here they are going to church. And he's kind of like, I don't know... I like a lot of his offstage wear and I would have pulled some of it but this movie stays really tight on like, heads and shoulders. So there weren't any good screencaps I could find of most of the stuff he wears offstage. So, you'll just have to trust me that a lot of it's really cute. [laughs]
Jojo
I trust you, Sarah.
Sarah
All right. And here is his freakin'... like, he's back. He's at the record label being like, "guess what? I'm gonna play a show at Folsom Prison." And they're like, "Say what?" And actually, I enjoyed this because there was a scene of him getting dressed. So... ta-da. Close up on that fabric. I love it.
Jojo
Mmhmm. Ooh, yeah.
Sarah
Arianne said that while they had a small budget, the money they did spend was getting a lot of his stuff custom made. So...
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
...you can kind of tell, you know, it looks great, especially this outfit.
Jojo
That's usually how we prioritize, you know. The lead character usually is who gets kind of the more custom made items, or at least the ones that are... a little more focus are put on them.
Sarah
Exactly. And I think she probably saved a lot of money on shoes, because like I said, hardly any shots of anybody's full body in this movie. [laughs]
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
Okay, and then here's him performing at Folsom. And I like this because of the the stark visual contrast between all of the inmates in blue, and then him in black in the middle. I just think it's a really effective picture.
Jojo
Mmhmm. Yeah.
Sarah
And then I have one last one. This is when they're performing on stage. And he proposes her onstage, which is a very sweet scene. But she also had said no to him so many times. Like, obviously, he knew that she was in love with him. And he could feel that and probably could feel that she wanted to marry him. But he also... it's also just a little bit like he pressures her into it. Just a tiny... it's still very sweet, though.
Jojo
Juuust a little bit.
Sarah
It's... Yeah.
Jojo
I mean, anytime you do something that public.
Sarah
Right, you're like...
Jojo
They don't really have another option.
Sarah
Exactly. You're like, "Oh, so you won't say yes on the tour bus. So you'll say yes onstage in front of hundreds of people." [both laugh] I like this outfit on June. I think it looks a little bit 2000s-y. But I wonder if it is vintage. And it just kind of happens to look contemporary?
Jojo
Yeah, like maybe a repeated silhouette or something.
Sarah
Yeah, exactly. But it's very nice. Oh, and then this is when we come to this picture, because this is them onstage in the 60s.
Jojo
Oh, cute.
Sarah
I know. As we can see, the hair; very different. They did not go for a full 60s bouffant on her.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
For reasons as we have discussed. But I love this little dress. Look at this kicky little skirt. So cute!
Jojo
Very cute.
Sarah
Okay, so the thing I just wanted to finish up saying, is I watched... like I said, I watched an interview with her. It was at a film festival of some kind, and it was her and James Mangold.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
The director. And she just brought up a couple points. And I was like, "let's chat about that a little bit." She talked a lot about how the wardrobe department is an actor's, basically, first foray into their character.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
It's often the first thing they do on the movie, having a costume fitting and meeting with the costume designer.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
So lots of times, the movie actor is coming from another project, they're really busy. You know, this is the first chance they've had to kind of stand there and be like, "oh, who is this character? What did they look like? How do they stand?"
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
So I just thought that was really interesting, that costumes are often their first chance to see themselves as the character.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And they also they find a lot of their physicality in costume fittings, how are they going to stand? How are they going to walk?
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
So I just thought that was a really good point. And probably something that average people don't necessarily know, is that like, the first thing is not a rehearsal, sometimes. Sometimes the first thing is costumes.
Jojo
Yeah. And that happens often very late in the game, especially for theatre. So it's like, sometimes... I mean, they have been doing their own research into the character, but once they actually see themselves. And I had that conversation with a few actors too, where they're like, "I was getting into my character, and I was understanding them a little bit. But it wasn't until I got into the costume that I fully embodied, like, who this character was." So that's always a kind of rewarding moment, I feel like, for designers. Because it really does mean you've thought about it... I mean, you both have thought about it. And you've clearly made those choices very intentionally. But to see the actor really get into the character that you've created for them too is a really nice part of the collaboration, I think.
Sarah
Totally. And things can change, obviously, that's what fittings are for.
Jojo
Yeah, absolutely.
Sarah
And so something that you as a designer might think was perfect for the character, the actor might be like, "Well, I'm not sure, you know, if this is right, because of these reasons," and then you find, and you explore it together. And that's how it should be. It should be a dialogue and a relationship between you--the designer--the actor, and the director. It should be a collaboration and that's what I love about it.
Jojo
Right. And that's what makes it so collaborative, is that you are having an open dialogue about it, and that it's not just "you just do whatever I want." Although that sometimes may be the case, if you've had a really extensive conversation with a director. But yeah, I think that's very important. So that's cool.
Sarah
Yeah. And then the other thing she talks about is like, she said that she specializes in distracting actors during fittings. And I was like, "that's interesting." Because actors can often feel really objectified.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And I think it can be dehumanizing, especially, to be in a costume fitting when people are staring at your body, talking about your body, like you aren't in the room.
Jojo
Right?
Sarah
So it can be really hard when you make your living off of partially how you look.
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
So she said she likes to just chat with them and get them out of their head and get them out of focusing on the flaws they see in the mirror and just really work on her relationship with them in the fitting. And I was like, "yeah, that's a good thing to do." Because you don't want them to feel like they're just a mannequin being dressed.
Jojo
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like sometimes those are the most.... Well, I guess I'm a little more biased, because most of the costume designers that I know, that I think are really successful, are the ones that do build that rapport with their actors, and sometimes become friends with their actors, because they've built up that relationship. And they've built that trust. And that's also-- I mean, you never know, an actor sometimes can be the one getting you the next job, too.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
Even though people don't necessarily think about it that way. But you know, it's such a small industry, you really don't ever know who's going to get you your next job.
Sarah
Totally.
Jojo
So I think building that relationship with whoever you're working with, and in this case with actors, it's the most intimate relationship that you can have. It really does go a long way, when you're able to build that trust. I mean, you know, Arianne is the perfect example with Madonna, building up that trust and being that person that becomes her go-to. That's how she got a lot of her other work.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
So it's kind of a cool... like, you get to see sort of how the relationship changes and shifts and builds and still kind of benefits both parties, because of that trust. So that's always important.
Sarah
Totally. Yeah. Yeah.
Jojo
So excitiing.
Sarah
So that's "Walk the Line". And those are my little side tangents that I was like, "let's chat about this, this will be fun."
Jojo
Good sidewalk conversations. [both laugh]
Sarah
Yeah. We like sort of diving into stuff that, you know, average, people who don't necessarily work in the industry might not think about or know. And it's all about shedding light and opening people up to what they might not know about.
Jojo
Yeah. And hopefully that's, you know, that's what makes our podcast interesting, too, is...
Sarah
I hope so too. [laughs]
Jojo
... hearing more of that stuff. And even though it is costume related, but yeah.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Opening it up to other things, because we don't just live in a vacuum of costume.
Sarah
Totally, it's not just about the pretty dresses, even though it we like those too.
Jojo
Yeah, very true.
Sarah
All right.
Jojo
Okay, let me...
Sarah
Are you ready? What's your movie?
Jojo
I'm doing "The Impossible," which... I'm just trying to get my stuff loaded up. So I can see my notes, as well as my pictures.
Sarah
Yeah, no problem.
Jojo
And I don't have a ton of pictures for this. Because again, very similar to Sarah, even though this movie actually got quite a few nominations, and Oscar wins, there were just really not a ton of pictures of this. And I mean, some of it is kind of understandable. Because it is a movie that is about a natural disaster. And so, you know, a lot of the costumes are naturally very, very distressed.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
And it's not like it's some beautiful thing that you see on a mannequin that you can put on afterwards. It's really more about kind of seeing the realistic, I guess, and natural way that costumes can break down over time. So I kind of wanted to choose it for that reason, because as many of you know, I am really into distressing costumes. And I've talked about this in the past. So this, unfortunately... there were not a lot of pictures of all kind of the step by steps, which I wish that I could have gotten. But I'm going to try and at least get some kind of important beats throughout the movie, where we can actually see how the costume kind of changed, at least. And sort of how the the costume designer-- it was actually multiple--how they were sort of coming up with, you know, where these outfits came from and that kind of thing.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
Okay, so really quick, just talking about some of the background for "The Impossible". The director is J.A. Bay... Bayona? I think that's how you say his name. I believe he's actually a Spanish--like, from Spain--director. I don't know exactly what his ethnicity is, but he did projects like "The Orphanage," which was his directorial debut. He also did "A Monster Calls," which I've never...
Sarah
Oh yeah.
Jojo
...I've never actually seen the movie but I have a whole book on all of the the creative visual effects that they did for that movie, which is phenomenal.
Sarah
I've read the book that that's based on, but I have not seen the movie.
Jojo
Okay. Yeah. And then he also did "Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom". So one of the newer ones.
Sarah
Okay! Wow.
Jojo
So his choices of what he directs is very, very eclectic and very versatile. So that was kind of interesting. But his directorial resume actually is not super long. But the fact is, even though he hasn't done a ton of projects, they've all been pretty big and well recognized at least. And then in terms of the costume designer, it was actually three people. And again, they're all... none of them are very big designers. Anne Bingeman, I think is how you say her name. She did "Deception". And she also did the the comedy "Bachelorette".
Sarah
Oh yeah, I've seen that.
Jojo
Yeah. Which I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." Very different movies.
Sarah
Did we watch that together?
Jojo
We might have! I feel like we did.
Sarah
With Jessica?
Jojo
Oh yeah, I think we did.
Sarah
[both laugh] I think we did!
Jojo
That's so funny, because I was like, "I know I watched it with somebody."
Sarah
That's really funny.
Jojo
And then Sparka Lee, which I thought was a very interesting name, literally spelled "spark" with an A at the end. She's mostly a costume supervisor and assistant. And I think that was kind of her role in this as well.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
But she did "The Constant Gardener". She was an assistant, I believe, for "Resident Evil," "Speed Racer," "The Reader," and then she was a supervisor for a lot of "The Queen's Gambit".
Sarah
Oh, nice.
Jojo
So she's probably had a little bit more of a recognizable career than the other two. And then the third costume designer was Maria Reyes. And she does a lot more foreign TV shows. So I don't think... there was a lot of stuff that I didn't recognize, I wrote them down. But they're not things-- they're not titles that I recognize. They're "Merli," "Oh Happy Day," which is also a TV show. And then "La torre de Suso," which I think is also a movie. But again, all titles that I was like, "I've never heard of any of these things." But maybe it's just because it's in a different country. And I've just haven't seen them.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
So yeah, so that's just a little bit of background. Just to tell you a little bit more about the actual event that this was based on... it follows a tourist family who ends up heading to Thailand, and this was back in like 2004. So there was a huge tsunami, which is actually... it said that it was one of the largest tsunamis in record, even to today. And that occurred in the Indian Ocean. So basically it pretty much wiped out the entire coast of Thailand in 2004. So there were, let's see, what were the statistics that I wrote down? It was considered the deadliest tsunami in recorded history. It was a 200 foot wave. It wiped away entire towns and the lives of over 200,000 people across 14 countries.
Sarah
Oh my god.
Jojo
So this thing was huge. And it was traveling from Indonesia. But this this particular movie focuses mostly on Thailand. And then the death toll in Thailand was nearly 5400, including 2000 foreign tourists.
Sarah
Wow.
Jojo
So this focuses on one specific tourist family who, miraculously, all five of the family members ended up surviving. But there were obviously a lot of other tourist deaths that were also happening at this time.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
So just to give you a little bit more background, because again, I don't have a ton of pictures. But I was curious how well they translated, I guess, what happened in real life versus what happened to this family, because it is a very isolated event. And actually, it only took place over about two days.
Sarah
Oh, wow.
Jojo
But of course, the entire time during the movie, you're just like... I was like crying and tense and all these other emotions, just because I was like, "I don't know what's going to happen to these people, even though I kind of do."
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
And also you're just watching them almost drown multiple times. And I think he spends a lot of time focusing on them underwater, getting hit and all this debris and everything. So of course, all those moments, you're kind of just sitting in tension, waiting, and hoping that they're going to resurface and and be able to breathe and survive. But the original family... and this is what I wanted to kind of touch base on, because I was a little confused. And there is a lot of critiquing about how they portrayed this movie, because the original family that survived was actually Spanish.
Sarah
Oh.
Jojo
And of course, all the actors that they cast for this were all well known white actors. And I think there was a back and forth of like, well, they chose these white actors. And there's a lot of white savior complex in there, even though there is you know, obviously they were in Thailand, and so they took a lot of the locals to portray, you know, the hospitals and the nurses and all the people that ended up helping. But the big critique was that it was essentially at the very end of it, the white family that survived while they didn't really focus on how much it actually affected the Thai people in the aftermath.
Sarah
Do you know if if the family, the original family, was Spanish from Spain? Or were they Hispanic?
Jojo
I believe they were from Spain. So yeah, not Hispanic, sorry.
Sarah
There are white people in Spain but like...
Jojo
Correct.
Sarah
...it still would have been better to cast actual Spanish people.
Jojo
Yeah. And I mean, it's very clear, the original lady was named Maria Belón. She was a physician. And then her husband's name is Enrique Álvarez. So you know, it's interesting the choices that they made. And you know, in justification, they actually did have the original Maria Belón come back, and literally be an advisor on--and guider on--the entire film.
Sarah
That's good.
Jojo
So she had a lot of, like... she was telling a lot of her own experience. And they said that their first interview with her... because I think she was also trying to figure out if these filmmakers were the right people to tell her story. Her first interview with them was actually five hours long, just her telling what happened.
Sarah
Wow.
Jojo
And I was like, "five hours?" Like, I can't even imagine. So a lot of, actually, what happened to Naomi Watts in the movie did in fact happen to Maria, in very much the same way. Even the way that the tsunami originally, or initially, approached them or attacked them. Like, they said that they actually had the family members standing in the same exact spot at that resort, where their family was. And I was like, "yikes." Like, I don't-- as an actor...
Sarah
Wow.
Jojo
...I don't know that I would.... Like, that would have been so mentally like... I'm not ready for this.
Sarah
That's a... that's heavy. That's like...
Jojo
It is.
Sarah
...that's a lot.
Jojo
Definitely. And they actually, so they were from Japan originally. Sorry-- they lived in Japan for Álvarez's job. And then they ended up going to Thailand for Christmas. So they were actually there for holiday.
Sarah
It was Christmas time?
Jojo
Yeah. So crazy.
Sarah
That is heartbreaking.
Jojo
And then they said that in terms of the actual injuries that she suffered--because I was also curious about how much of that they translated--Belón apparently suffered severe thigh and chest injuries, which is also what they did in the movie for Naomi Watts. So like, very, very much exactly like what she experienced was what they kind of recreated.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Both parents ended up being separated from their children. So they had three sons, Lucas, Simón, and Tomás were the original names. They changed them to very white names of Lucas, Simon and Thomas.
Sarah
Ooh.
Jojo
And then even Enrique, they changed to Henry. Maria, they kept as Maria. But their last name was actually Bennett instead of, you know, Maria Belón and Álvarez.
Sarah
That's...
Jojo
So like that part of it, I was a little bit like, "uhhhh..."
Sarah
How do you excuse that? Like, how do you... we wanted to get the movie made, and we didn't think that they would fund a movie with no white people in it?
Both
[editor's note: our apologies, we do know that Spain is primarily Caucasian. Our use of "white people" in these exchanges is incorrect. We meant that instead of casting people who looked like the familiy--dark hair and olive skin--they cast very fair people and Anglicized their names, essentially changing the fact that the family is Spanish.]
Jojo
Right. And I think that was the one person that critiqued it. They were like, "why did they choose not to use a, you know, a more well known celebrity that was from Spain?"
Sarah
There are a lot, yeah.
Jojo
Like, I think they had mentioned Penélope Cruz as an option, you know, things like that. And it was interesting because Maria, the original lady, actually said that when she talked to Naomi Watts, she felt the most... like she could relate to her the most when they were talking about the role.
Sarah
Okay.
Jojo
So I was like, "Oh, that's interesting that she connected the most with a white lady to represent her." Like...
Sarah
Yeah, I'm glad that basically she gave her blessing on it.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
Like, I'm glad she's not upset by the decision. Yeah, but it is kind of bad optics, you know?
Jojo
Very much so, especially now. I mean, this was created a couple years ago, but like...
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
...you know, it's just weird to think about it now, when everything is so much more sensitive about that.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Okay. So let's see. One thing that I did want to mention, Naomi Watts quoted Belón when they spoke, she said, "Belón felt completely sure of her instinct." And this was like, during the time of the tsunami, everything that happened. She said, "Nothing got in the way of her instinct, and she'd never had that feeling before." So I think that was something that really helped Naomi kind of get into her character as well. Which you definitely do see that, like they make Naomi a little bit more fearful, I think, in the movie. Like she... when they start off on the plane flying to Thailand. She's already nervous about all the bumpiness on the plane.
Sarah
Hmm.
Jojo
And then when she goes into the actual... when she actually has to save her son, or try to reach her son, there's a little bit more of a jump of her anxiety, becoming a mother and trying to save her children. So moving on to costumes.
Sarah
Costumes!
Jojo
Sorry, I spent way too long talking about that, but I figured I would at least show some background. [laughs]
Sarah
Yeah, it's good to have that information.
Jojo
Before we talked about it.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
So I wanted to show you the original family. And you can tell they're... they look very Spanish, like from Spain. Like, all their features are very "from Spain." And then you have the white family that represents them. So... so yeah, it's quite a big difference. Ewan McGregor plays Henry.
Sarah
[laughs] I'm sorry.
Jojo
Naomi Watts plays Maria, obviously... I know.
Sarah
We couldn't even put them in dark hair? Like, we couldn't even dye their hair? Okay. All right.
Jojo
Yeah, yeah.
Sarah
They had to be blonde.
Jojo
And then we had, interestingly enough, this is actually Tom Holland.
Sarah
Oh my god!
Jojo
So funny, because I was like, "Oh, yeah, I forgot he was in this movie!"
Sarah
Little baby.
Jojo
He's so, so young in this movie. And he plays our oldest child, Lucas. And then we have our middle child, our little blond, blue eyed kid, who I believe is Simon. And then our youngest is Thomas. So I kind of wanted to pull this picture out, just because throughout the movie, the designers actually kept a really, really tight palette for them. So it was a lot of really nice earth tones. They're mostly in... like, if it's white, it's a kind of cream. I mean, this is probably the lightest white, and it's only the mom.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
The rest of the time, most of the guys are either in blues or greens, you'll see a lot of kind of deep grays, or kind of cooler tone grays. So I think they really did a good job of kind of sticking to that.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
And then... and this is all, of course, before everything happens.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
This is a little out of order. But this was the original outfit that Maria is in. And this is pretty much the outfit she's in the entire time she's suffering through this tsunami. So she starts off, obviously, in this white tank top and the blue shorts. And of course, throughout the movie, there's so much that's happened. She's like, drowning in muddy water. So this totally looks like a completely different outfit by the end of this.
Sarah
Right.
Jojo
But this is sort of where she starts.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
Okay, and then... so this was actually supposed to be before the other one. But this was basically one of the nights before the tsunami hits. They actually have a little lantern, which is very famous in Thailand, they do the lantern release.
Sarah
Oh yeah. Mmhmm.
Jojo
Where they're seeing the lanterns fly into the sky. And this is kind of their last calm and nice moment as a family. So I love that, again, it's still earth tones, but these beautiful greens that the costume designers decided to use here really kind of ties them into the the natural setting of Thailand as well.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
She actually ends up putting these kind of tropical flowers in her hair. So it's this very tropical feeling, you know, they are on vacation.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
So I did love that they kind of tied everyone together very tightly, in terms of color. Alright, so...
Sarah
Oh boy. Here we go.
Jojo
...after the tsunami hits, you can already see her white tank top has turned yellow.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
She's already covered in mud. And even her blue shorts have kind of turned sort of a gray. It looks like they've kind of given her some... almost like salt stains.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
Because this is after the water has kind of died down. But she's sort of still... kind of trying to find her way to help. They end up picking up this kid, which apparently this also happened in real life. They actually found a stray kid that they helped for a little while named Daniel.
Sarah
Oh my gosh.
Jojo
And in the movie they totally just make it a happy ending where he finds his dad, and they see him reunite with his dad. In the real situation, apparently Daniel was never found again. Like, somehow he got separated from them a second time and they never found out what happened to him.
Sarah
Oh, no.
Jojo
So it's like... it's just this really heartbreaking moment.
Sarah
That's too dark, too dark for the movie, I guess.
Jojo
It really is, it really is.
Sarah
Oh, that's so sad.
Jojo
And you can kind of see even with Lucas, he, you know, he's still got that kind of blue swimming shorts. I mean, like I said, there's not a ton of costume, interesting things here because they're in swimwear.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
They're at the pool when the tsunami hits. So it's like, very kind of bare minimum clothing.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
But you do start seeing how much this kind of changes, even just seeing all of the different details of what water does to our clothes, after being in a muddy tsunami. And the other thing, too, that's interesting is she was wearing a swimming suit under this when everything happened, and somehow the swimsuit has just sort of disappeared.
Sarah
Oh!
Jojo
Because during this time, she actually... underwater, gets stabbed in this, in the rib cage. And also a whole chunk of her back thigh is just missing. So there's a scene where-- I didn't want to show it because it was just very, very graphic.
Sarah
That's fine. [laughs]
Jojo
But you see the kid walking behind her, and he just sees a chunk of her leg just flapping down and he's like, "I can't."
Sarah
Ugh!
Jojo
He's like, "I can look at you right now," and so she makes him walk in front of her, so he doesn't have to look at it. And that's why she has this little thing tied around her leg, to like, keep the skin up. And I'm like, "oh my god."
Sarah
Oh god. [laughs]
Jojo
But yes, it's a lot of... and again, this is where it kind of gets down to the nitty gritty of like, this costume crafts person had to understand what each of these steps were. Like, everything that hits her has to somehow show up on her clothes.
Sarah
Yes.
Jojo
So you know, you start seeing the blood kind of dripping and staining from the side-- the side injury, but then you also see the blood kind of getting on some of her pants.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
It's just like, I don't know, it's so much to think about. Especially in a natural disaster, this where literally everything is making you dirty. [laughs]
Sarah
Yes, that's the daunting part of distressing, I think. Like, you must have to completely storyboard it.
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
And then that's how you figure out how many duplicates you need. And you must have to like, just lay it all out.
Jojo
Yeah. And I... you know, even in this, it's like, they must have had to have, you know, 15 or 16 copies of this shirt alone.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Like, even just for a 20 minute segment, just because she goes through so much trauma, and she's still wading through water even after it kind of subsides. So like, there's still things that are happening, because she's still trudging through terrain, so...
Sarah
Well, and then you're like, "Okay, so how many times does she have to do to the take," you know.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
"Do we need a fresh one at the beginning of every take, so that she can get wet?"
Jojo
Right, exactly.
Sarah
So yeah, it's so much to think about.
Jojo
And that also makes me wonder why we have, you know... it's probably why they had three costume people.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
And also why they had a supervisor in addition to, you know, maybe a more seasoned designer, because someone who's a supervisor understands more of that craft stuff. And usually, they'll either at least have someone on hand that they know who can do that, or they're often the ones doing some of the craft stuff.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
So it's, you know, it's sort of interesting how they pulled together their team. Like, it makes a lot more sense when you're looking at the amount of craziness that has to happen to these costumes in terms of breaking them down.
Sarah
Yeah. And you need people on set who know exactly what is supposed to be happening when.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
So I think that is... that's kind of probably what a supervisor would do too, right? Is be, like...
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
...in charge of knowing which one is for which scene.
Jojo
Right, right, and making sure everything is organized in such a way that they don't get those mixed up.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
But yeah. Okay.
Sarah
Wow, oh no.
Jojo
So this is the next stage. She gets basically dragged through... I mean, there's quite a few things that happen in between this, of course, but a big part of this--the original story, too--was that a Thai man actually ended up dragging her through the mud. And like, this is so hard to watch, because she's just screaming in pain the entire time. And they just-- they're just dragging her through grass, and like...
Sarah
Ohh.
Jojo
...mud and all these other things. And she... you know, it's the back of her leg. So it's just getting ripped up even more. But that's his only way of trying to get her to a hospital and get her to somewhere safe.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
And you see her son in the front. Like, it's interesting, because clearly the people making this movie did not want to hurt children or make them look hurt. So like, the two youngest kids, don't look distressed or dirty or anything at all.
Sarah
[laughs] Not bloody.
Jojo
You see maybe one or two scenes where Tom Holland gets kind of beat up under the water, but you know, in terms of the amount of pain and injury that he sustained, it's much, much less than...
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
...what Naomi Watts goes through.
Sarah
People don't want to see kids getting hurt.
Jojo
It's so true. So yeah, they definitely kept them pretty clean in general. But she, again, she gets stabbed right in the side. And then it's really gross. Like, they actually show her boob all sliced up underneath. And so, you know, her son's obviously freaking out because she's like, falling apart in front of him.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
And so she ends up having to tie one of her tank top straps to the other side, just to, like, cover herself.
Sarah
Uh huh.
Jojo
So yeah, it's just, you know, this looks so horrible here. But again, it just shows you this is sort of the next few steps that our craftsperson had to pay attention to.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
She's getting dragged through the mud. She's also got all the blood on top, she's probably bleeding more because she's being dragged through other stuff. So it's just all those things that you have to pay attention to. Because as humans, that's what would happen in real life.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
So yes, so she ends up wearing pretty much this outfit for the rest of the time until she's she's able to get to the hospital.
Sarah
Wow.
Jojo
Okay, so Tom Holland. Obviously when he gets to the hospital, somehow he finds a shirt. Or like, they end up... so when they get to the actual Thai village, where it's a little safer, they actually have a-- it's basically like all the local people end up coming and, you know, putting... they end up giving her a shirt. They end up, you know, giving Lucas another shirt. But one of the reasons I wanted to pull this image is not just because it's like, "Okay, great, now we have a costume change." But it kind of also goes to show the kind of clothes that are overseas. Because a lot of times, overseas countries do end up just getting, essentially, the waste that America gets rid of.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
So it's interesting that we're looking at graphics that look a little bit more American, but it's almost like it's faded out, or it's not quite there anymore.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Like these are old clothes that have been discarded from elsewhere.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
So I kinda want to just pull that in. Because I mean, it just says... even with how kind of dingy it looks, it tells you a lot about what's actually in the rest of the world, and how other people manufacture clothing, or even get clothing from other places. Or wealthier places.
Sarah
Yeah, I think, you know, Americans at large don't necessarily think about what happens to our clothes when...
Jojo
Mmhmm.
Sarah
...you know, they can't even be sold in Goodwill or whatever.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
That's what happens, is that we ship them to other countries and just... make it their problem instead of ours.
Jojo
Yeah. Yeah. And like, he gets this as a new shirt, but you can see how torn up the collar is, and how the sleeves are all torn up.
Sarah
Yeah. And the graphic is faded.
Jojo
So yes, I just thought that was a really interesting way to kind of introduce that.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
Okay, so then the second half of the movie, they kind of go... I mean, because the first half of the movie you're really focusing on how Naomi is able to find her son, and they stay together, and how they're able to get to the hospital.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
And hers is probably the much more traumatic experience, because I think she obviously went through a lot more injuries. Somehow, Ewan McGregor stays fairly intact and untouched through all of this. Which is weird. But he's also in the pool with his kids when he starts.
Sarah
Oh.
Jojo
And I wanted to pull this image, even though it's the dirty version of this, because he has these pretty standard Hawaiian blue swimming trunks. But in the beginning, his kids are just making fun of how ugly they are. [laughs] And so it's just funny that, you know, it... obviously, it's not a huge thing, but then they just get so dirty and ripped up by the time he gets through the tsunami. And yet, somehow, the only injuries he sustains are maybe a few scars here and there on his face.
Sarah
Wow.
Jojo
And when they find him, or when he starts his kind of portion of the story, he's still back at the resort. So somehow, he's survived enough after the water has kind of subsided, to still remain at the resort. And he's somehow found his two kids. So like, apparently, they were also clinging to a tree. And that's how he found both of them. Like, they were both, you know, just holding on.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
And so at this point, the water has subsided. The rest of the movie, his goal is to just basically find his wife and his kids, because he feels like they're alive, even though no one else seems to think so. So I just wanted to pull that image really quick, because that's mostly what he's in until he's able to find a shirt.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Later on, this is still him looking for his wife, he's kind of talking to his kids and trying to convince his middle child that he has to take care of Thomas, because you know, they're going to go somewhere safe to the top of the mountain so that it's far away from the water. And then he's going to keep looking for his wife. So basically, this is sort of like a "grow up, you gotta man up and take care of your younger brother."
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
Because he's also the kid that's afraid of everything at the beginning of the movie.
Sarah
Aww. I relate to that.
Jojo
Okay, so moving on. This is actually... I believe this is one of my last ones. I wanted to pull this because she's one of the few characters that kind of gets a little bit more screen time, other than the guy that drags Naomi Watts through the mud. And she actually does speak pretty fluent English, because she's one of the ones that finally kind of is able to converse with Lucas when he's trying to find... at a certain point in the hospital, he loses his mom temporarily. So she finally is able to converse with him and calm him down and try to help him find his mom again. And so she's kind of... it's still a really, really small role. And again, another big critique is that the local people just aren't given much of a character in this movie. But she ends up kind of having this big long conversation with him and she ends up kind of being his trustworthy, like, go-to nurse.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
So she has a very small part, but you do see her represented a little bit more. And I kind of just wanted to show, again, their uniform is clearly not pristine, like we are used to seeing in the States.
Sarah
Right.
Jojo
It's clearly like, this is the shirt that she got. And it's probably whatever "Goodwill" version that she got out of wherever she could find. And that's their uniform for the hospital.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
So I just thought that was interesting, to sort of represent kind of what the local people were wearing. And I didn't do enough research to find out how accurate this actually was.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Or if this is just something she wore on her own, versus an actual, you know, hospital issued uniform.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
And then last one.. they talked about-- like, I just kind of pulled this image because again, they haven't really changed. But this is sort of where they finally find each other. And this is after a very long like hour and a half of the movie. So within that last half hour, Lucas finally finds his two brothers, and then they finally find their dad.
Sarah
Aww.
Jojo
So there was this really heartwarming moment. And again, it's sort of like a double edged sword, right? There's so many other people that die during the tsunami that aren't focused on in this movie. And yet, the white family is the one that survives. So I think that was one of the biggest critiques of this movie, of how whitewashed everything was.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
But you know, it's at the end of it, it's still a very heartwarming happy ending, I think. Unfortunately, audiences don't... well, I shouldn't say "unfortunately," but audiences don't really like to see a sad ending for things like this, where it is a natural disaster that's totally out of your control.
Sarah
Right.
Jojo
But it is also one of those things where, you know, it makes you wonder, what about all those other families that didn't make it? So... Yeah, anyways, that was the last thing I had for this movie. Again, a really hard thing to watch.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
But I did like that they at least brought the original survivor into the discussion and didn't just try and like, fake it or make something happen that wasn't really happening.
Sarah
I feel like if I was making this movie, which... I don't make movies, so whatever. But I would probably try to tell a bunch of family's stories, you know?
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
Instead of... you can get the real life testimony from the survivors and try to do justice to their actual story.
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
But you could also add in some side characters who are on their own sort of struggle and journey, and maybe not all of them have happy endings, you know?
Jojo
Yeah.
Sarah
Like, you could tell the story in a way that was sensitive to the actual family who survived this. And then... but also sensitive to everybody else who didn't find their family.
Jojo
Right. Which... I think, you know, they did do a little bit of that.
Sarah
Yeah?
Jojo
When Lucas is running through the hospital. Because while his mom is laying kind of in the hospital ready for surgery, he ends up... just because he doesn't know what to do with himself. So he ends up running around the hospital, and all these people end up reaching out to him and being like, you know, "have you seen this person?"
Sarah
Mmm.
Jojo
Like, most of them are parents asking for their sons, or their kids.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
And so he starts going around, he starts taking their names down, and walking around the hospital and just yelling out names, being like, "anybody recognize this name?" So there is a little bit of that, that I think they tried to throw in there to like, redeem some of it.
Sarah
[laughs] Yeah.
Jojo
But yeah, you know, it is one of those things where I think you see maybe two families reunite-- including that kid Daniel, who in real life, we never find out what actually happens to him. But there is another family who... the son and the father get reunited, because Lucas ends up finding him.
Sarah
Mmhmm.
Jojo
And then there's another mom who also goes, like... she has a similar situation and ends up having to go into surgery kind of right next to Maria's character. And you never find out what happens to her. Like, she goes into surgery. And she, I think she writes her name on Maria's arm, so that she won't forget her name, because she was like, "I have a family too. And I just want to say bye to them one last time before... I don't know if I'm going to survive this surgery," kind of thing.
Sarah
Oh, wow.
Jojo
And then she goes into surgery, and you never see her come back out. So you know, there's a lot of unfinished stories, which, you know, I think they tried to do that. Which is probably why this movie lasted two hours. Like, I forgot that that was long it was. [laughs] And I was like, "how are they going to make a movie about a tsunami last two hours?" [both laugh] But you know, they did it. So... so yes, it was interesting to see how they were able to kind of translate some of that. And like, show all of it. I think, you know, again, at the end of the day, I'm kind of like, "what was the reasoning behind switching to a white family when it didn't have to be done that way?"
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Like, you know, it's one thing if you're resonating with that particular actress. But like, they could have even kept her husband, you know, Spanish. Or... I don't know, something like that.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
I'm not a filmmaker. So who knows? But...
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
...but yes, it does make me wonder what their choices are, what their motivations behind those choices were.
Sarah
It's hard to justify that, you know, in a way that really makes a lot of sense. Other than...
Jojo
Right.
Sarah
"...we were worried about money. We were worried that people wouldn't pay to see a movie about people who weren't white," which is like... [grimace sound] [laughs]
Jojo
Right. And then last fun fact I wanted to share was when they did the tsunami, apparently he built a water tank. And that's how they filmed the whole movie. I think it was very similar... I can't remember the other movie you said that they did that for. But there was another one.
Sarah
"Parasite"?
Jojo
Yes. Yeah.
Sarah
Yeah, I just transcribed that one.
Jojo
They built a water tank. And like, they just... you know, they kind of just did most of their swimming in there.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
And then they just added some digital, you know, extra effects or visual effects afterwards for the extra stuff. But I was like, "That's so crazy," because I can't imagine trying to film. He tried to use as much real water as possible, though.
Sarah
Oh, wow.
Jojo
He was like, "I wanted it to be as authentic as possible." So a lot of the tidal waves that come in, and things like that, all of that happened for real. And I was like, "yikes," that's... that's so crazy and scary. Like, I can't imagine.
Sarah
Yes, I feel like that would be very hard. But also I think about actors and I'm like, "a movie where you're wet the whole time?" That just has to suck to shoot.
Jojo
Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.
Sarah
Just wet for two months.
Jojo
And where you have to constantly change costumes, just to make sure you're continuous. Like...
Sarah
They're like, dumping buckets on you before they start. Ugh.
Jojo
Yep, yep. So yeah, must have been a very grueling process. For sure.
Sarah
Yeah. Yeah.
Jojo
But yeah, that's my coverage of "The Impossible."
Sarah
Great job.
Jojo
Thanks, Sarah.
Sarah
I'm glad you covered that, because I am glad I know about that movie now. But that's the kind of movie that would stress me out deeply to watch. So now I got the experience of watching it without having to actually watch it. [both laugh]
Jojo
So funny. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I will definitely say, the scene where she reunites with her son--and she's trying to get back to him because they're so far apart--and they see each other and they're both screaming for each other, but they can't get close enough to each other. And there's a whole scene where they're reaching across a mattress, but they can't touch hands, because it's too far away. And they're still also trying to avoid debris under the water that they can't see. And I'm just like, "this is so stressful!" And I feel like I don't know what I'd do if this was me, and my parents. Or like, me and a child that I cared about. [laughs]
Sarah
I hope we never have to find out what that's like.
Jojo
Agreed. Agreed. [both laugh]
Sarah
Oh, man.
Jojo
But yes. So yeah, that's our coverage of true event movies.
Sarah
Very different films we picked, from each other. [laughs]
Jojo
Absolutely.
Sarah
That's good. We like to keep it spicy. Keep it fresh.
Jojo
That's true. It's very true.
Sarah
Yeah.
Jojo
Keep your interest peaked.
Sarah
Exactly. [both laugh]
Jojo
Oh, man. Well.
Sarah
Okay.
Jojo
Thank you so much, Sarah, that was so much fun.
Sarah
Thank you, JoJo.
Jojo
Thank you guys for joining us. And again, if you have any comments or questions or just other things you want to add, maybe more information about either of our movies that maybe we didn't cover, please feel free to add or comment on Instagram.
Sarah
Yes! Totally.
Jojo
We are behind on YouTube. So I will get back on that this week. Sorry. It's been a crazy month. But thank you for being patient with us.
Sarah
Yes.
Jojo
And we look forward to hearing all of your comments and notes and questions and everything else.
Sarah
Yes, we appreciate your patience as we, you know, try to fit doing this podcast around our regular lives. [laughs]
Jojo
So true. Well, thanks again and we'll see you on the next one.
Sarah
See ya. Bye.
Jojo
Bye!
[OUTRO]
Jojo
Thank you for listening to The Costume Plot! You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @thecostumeplot. If you have a question, comment, or movie suggestion you can email us at [email protected].
Sarah
Our theme music is by Jesse Timm, and our artwork is by Jojo Siu. Please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts.
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