#i realize this sounds somewhat hypocritical bc then it's like. but what about damian! wouldn't the same apply to him!

[roobylavender]

had talia not been character assassinated do you think she and bruce should have gotten back together?

no. i hate to use the word "phase" bc that would seem to diminish the importance of what's between them, which is something that will always persist esp as their continued dedication to the same causes and their respect for each other remains. but i do think realistically bruce should be a phase in talia's life. at least in terms of consummated romances specifically. i do love the idea of them remaining allies, close friends, and co-parents, but i think allowing talia to walk away from ra's and bruce in the first place has to stand for something in the long term. before talia went her own way i think it was easier to imagine a potential future where she ended up with bruce bc it felt like the desirable option. she was in this very debilitating position where she had little to no freedom to act on her own desires and goals, the embodiment of which was none other than bruce. so when you frame her situation pre-tower of babel, obv wanting to be with bruce was appealing. he was as much the love of her life as he was a means of escape and freedom and talia having the scope to then act on her own desires. i think that's what subsequently makes dc #750 (or is it #570. i never get the numbers straight and i'm too lazy to check) a really clever issue, actually, bc it acknowledges that and the fact that bruce once again setting her free bc of his love for her actually gives her the courage to step out on her own where she never has before. the fact that she has the option to go back to gotham with bruce and presumably have everything she's ever wanted with him, but she leaves it anyway, is a really huge deal. it's a statement. she loves him, but not more than she loves herself. and sure, what talia puts herself through during lex corp era certainly begs the question of whether her version of loving herself is really viable or in any way healthy, and i would love to see bruce help her recognize that she's not alone and that she doesn't have to do it alone to prove that she's capable. all of this i agree with. but i don't think that really means she and bruce have to fall back on their once-imagined dream of playing house. even if talia did find methods of going about her work that were mentally healthier i don't really know what'd be in it for her to play house with bruce in gotham. bc that is what it would have to be, for their relationship to work in any way. bruce will never leave gotham and son of the demon didn't need to explore that issue bc it was never going to get there but trust that corny as the line about naming the baby thomas or martha was it was reflective of a reality: gotham is bruce's entire life. no matter where he goes, no matter what he does, no matter who he works with, in the end he will always belong to gotham. and i simply do not think that would ever work for talia bc there is so much more she is capable of. while her vision is aligned with bruce's her scope of access and ability is entirely distinct of his own and there is so much more that she can do aside from relegate herself to gotham (hence why lex corp as an arc makes so much sense, bc it capitalizes on that scope). and yeah every superhero couple is kinda crazy and they have teleportation and shit but idk i don't think it's really a relationship for each party to go on long missions with ill-defined parameters that give them the worst sleep schedules known to man and occasionally they share a bed. it really isn't. and that's something that bruce and talia have to live with. their duty is always going to come first even though they both have a passion for civilian life. for talia to be in a relationship again she would have to stop having the liberty of being able to go wherever the work carries her and for bruce to be in a relationship again he would have to have the equivalent of a robin-wife. neither of these things is ever going to happen. so

#outbox #i realize this sounds somewhat hypocritical bc then it's like. but what about damian! wouldn't the same apply to him! #and idk i don't think it would. your kid is different from your lover #obv i imagine talia would try to be around for damian as much as possible #but as i've discussed a lot of times even that i think would be tricky for her. she was willing to say she lost her baby #bc she thought if she didn't the world would lose batman #she's like. craaaaazy dedicated to her work so yeah i do think she'd try to coparent with whatever capacity she could #and her love would be genuine and overflowing etc etc #but at the end of the day she's not going to settle in gotham solely for the purpose of raising him #or for the purpose of appeasing bruce's notions of pathetic puppy dog romance #her liberty is too impt to her #ironically enough this is funny to talk about in context of that batman & robin panel from yesterday bc like #had they not character assassinated her that's really how it might've gone. at least imo #like it's a shame they had to resort to all of these racist and orientalist tropes about her being an abusive mother #to somehow justify why bruce should be the resident parent instead #when you literally could've just followed the thread of talia valuing her independence #versus bruce being desperate for any remaining semblance of normal civilian life like it's an oxygen tank and he's losing air #not only would that have been realistic it would also have carried nuance and allowed insight into bruce and talia's psyches #and more than anything. it would have been funny #but i DIGRESS. tldr yes talia would coparent but even that would be with certain limitations #i think she's the kind of person / mom who like. leaves her love everywhere but can't necessarily stand where she leaves it. yknow #like i could even bring jason into this #i really do think she'd do everything in her power to try to get jason to break from the red hood persona and heal etc #and she'd have immense affection for him #but she's not going to sit and play house and babysit him once she's free and once she knows he's free too #she's very big on personal accountability #so she'd check up on him and the love would be there but like. the bigger picture would always interfere #anywayyyy. thank you for the question i love to ramble about this stuff LOL