#spoiler tagging just in case...but I really don't know shit about fuck aakjdfsdjk

[henrysglock]

This post is going to be rambling and speculative to say the least, but...You guys would tell me if certain types of gates had 2 ends in different times/locations (like a wormhole of some kind), right?

Like if, say, El opened the 1979 gate to Dimension X in Nevada, and that opened something to Dimension X in Hawkins in 1959, that might explain the supposed presence of monsters in TFS.

Then what about 1983? Could the 1983 gate in Hawkins have opened something in Nevada around 1953? Is that what's so special about Nevada in the 50s?

Was there a gate in Nevada in the early 50s?

(An aside, because I have to: Richard Brenner ran HNL from 1954 to 1971. Martin Brenner seems to have been there since 1959, and was in charge by 1983. Just...shrimpresting to me. Martin Brenner...you aren't a nepo baby by any chance, are you? Asking for a friend.)

And with that...you guys would tell me if Dimension X existed outside of space-time, right.

Like okay, running with the 1979-1959/1983-1953 Hawkins-Nevada theory. Henry didn't shape the Shadow until post-1979, but we do see him drawing it, fully-formed, in 1959.

If Dimension X exists, theoretically, outside space-time...then could it be possible that a young, pre-1959 Henry met post-banishment Henry via a gate in Nevada in 1953-1954?

[cocks gun] Hey Henry, in an attempt to change your fate/escape HNL ("Something that would change everything"), did you retroactively give yourself the Shadow?

Which, if it's retroactive, might explain why ST1 Jopper et. al. don't immediately connect TFS to ST1. TFS Henry may or may not be flayed, but that may not have gone into effect until 1983-1984. Thus the adults don't connect it, because it technically hasn't happened yet...or to this version of them specifically.

See: Stranger Things Day Discrepancy #1

If this all ^^ is the case, but Henry doesn't ultimately change his fate, then instead of finding the Shadow post-1979, Henry would reunited with it.

He's been known it for over 25 years. He's been flayed, and it sounds like it likely wasn't a pleasant experience, given the way VR Henry reacts to the Shadow as compared to Canon Henry:

Canon Henry reaches out to the amorphous Shadow and shapes it. VR Henry rejects it immediately. VR Henry wants the Shadow to go away. Canon Henry beckons the Shadow and shapes it.

(If there was a Henry who already had control of the Shadow, it might also answer the question of who the hell is manipulating it in the VR trailer...but again, it's speculative.)

This all might also answer a long-standing question of mine: How the hell did Will know that closing the gate would work?

Will gets flayed in 1984, and he's only flayed for a few days. In fact, he's really only possessed for about a day...and supposedly, no one has ever seen anything like this before, so it's not like anyone suggested it to him.

This means Will figured out how to cut the connection with the Mindflayer in less than a day, while under extreme duress.

Which sure, you could hand-wave it as hive mind stuff...but what if there was someone who already knew how to cut the connection? Say...someone who may not have been the primary target anymore? [Smash-cut to 4.06 Brenner: "Well, well, it looks like we have a new winner"]

Tangentially, it's so interesting to me that Will would have morse code memorized so well that he can use it under such insane duress, something that only Hopper, who's father was a WW2 vet and who was once military himself, recognizes in ST2. Will doesn't show any proclivity towards morse code until this point, though. He could have used morse in ST1 to talk to Joyce/Hopper in full words via the lights, if he knows it this well! But he doesn't.

That leads me to ask—Who do we know that:

is heavily associated with the Shadow/Dimension X

may been possessed/flayed in the past

may have experience neutralizing the Shadow

had a father who was in WW2

is around Hopper's age/is of an age where knowing morse code would be common

(The answer should be glaring, let me know if it's not)

What more did El have to learn about Henry via NINA? What was the truth Brenner meant for her to see/was withholding from her? Why does it feel like certain characters have been scapegoated, and that we may have had a man on the inside (or rather...the other side) this whole time?

Tangentially related speculation re: Will, the lights, and Henry under the cut

It makes me wonder, again, about Stranger Things Day Discrepancy #2:

If Will's messages don't count, then why does this set of messages count? Is Will even in the real Upside Down at all?

See: Stranger Things Day Discrepancy #3 and #4

(I know at least my group of friends has been thinking that Will's UD isn't the same as Nancy's or Vecna's since...forever)

And if Will isn't in the UD, then who is? Who's blinking the letter-lights, and why is that considered the first message from the Upside Down?

Why is TFS, a story about Henry, considered "the origin of the Upside Down"...

and not ST1 Mothergate/Will's disappearance?

Who made the letter-lights blink quickly, rather than the slow, glowy way Will does it with the white lights? (See also: The slow glow when the other kids touch lights in the UD/the LiteBrite)

Which program has been shown having kids with powers quickly blink lights on and off with their minds?

So again...why does it feel like we've got a man on the inside?

#spoiler tagging just in case...but I really don't know shit about fuck aakjdfsdjk #tfs spoilers #st: tfs #time loop theory #This isn't even touching on Vecna/the other timeline. This is just Henry and the Shadow... #Hey Brenner...is Soteria built to repress Henry's powers or the Shadow...or both? Answer quick. #''It wasn't supposed to end like this'' I'm sure it wasn't! #Which...this path would further support the 4 guys/2 Henries 2 Edwards thing