#But in all honesty as a Xehanort fan I would *like* this theory to be true

[starlightwayfinder]

I decided to watch some old KH trailers in honor of the anniversary today, and I have to admit, I don’t think I ever rewatched this one after the release of Melody of Memory. When it was first revealed, we were under the assumption that the Master of Masters was the opponent Kairi was facing, but as we now know, it was actually Master Xehanort. While we were aware that the Master of Masters has more plans and tricks up his sleeve, to think of this line in the context of Xehanort is a little different. It brought to mind an old theory of mine, so I decided to go back to KH3, Re:Mind, KHDR, and MoM to compile as much evidence as possible for it.

(As a disclaimer, it slightly undermines the authenticity of his ‘conclusion’ in KH3, so if you’re a big fan of that scene, feel free to skip this one.)

This line in KH3 is a good place to start. From the get go, it was established that Xehanort planned for nearly every possible outcome of the Keyblade War. I also think it’s safe to say that every action he made was an intentional choice based on these plans. So the question is, what is the “final plan” referenced in Melody of Memory’s trailer? I think the game gave us the answer:

It may be easy to jump to the conclusion that this was just a plan for revenge, since Sora is the one who stopped Xehanort to begin with. However, I want to reaffirm that every action he takes is for a reason that serves his goals. It wasn’t just a plan to make Sora disappear, but likely to make him disappear to Quadratum specifically.

This was even foreshadowed in KH3’s Toy Box world. Young Xehanort sends Sora to the world of Verum Rex—though it’s probably closer to a “data” version in this instance:

YX in particular is very confident that Sora’s overuse of the Power of Waking will lead to his disappearance:

And MX has a similar line in Re:Mind:

Except this is where things get interesting. The Sora in Re:Mind is time-traveling from a point in time after he defeated Xehanort.

Xehanort must know this, because he sees the real Sora (from this point in time) about to begin the final battle in the distance. He then acknowledges that the Sora he’s speaking to is from the future. Unless he witnesses the present Sora time travel during their final confrontation, he can conclude that Sora survives their fight to time travel later on—meaning his plan doesn’t come to fruition. Sora unknowingly reveals his hand in Re:Mind this way, and opens the door for Xehanort to plan accordingly—which is kind of mind-breaking to think about…

It gets even better here, during Sora’s fight with Terra-Xehanort:

Sora brags that, like Xehanort, he can also time travel. To which Xehanort responds that Sora will then also need to make the “ultimate sacrifice”, or in other words, “pay the ultimate price”, as MX said. “Also”—as in, Xehanort has made this sacrifice as well by time traveling. As in, Xehanort will also disappear to Quadratum.

We have evidence to believe that as well. I also like the interpretation that he intentionally planned this to survive the world being purged, but that’s kind of a separate theory.

So to recap, Xehanort was probably aware that Sora would survive their final confrontation in order to time travel afterwards. He correctly predicts that the consequence for time traveling would be to disappear… specifically to Quadratum—something that Melody of Memory considers his “final plan”.

So… why? Why would he want Sora to also disappear to Quadratum? Trying to answer that question leads to the most controversial part of this theory:

It’s really nice to believe that Xehanort gave Sora the X-blade as an admission of his defeat, and I’m definitely not against that interpretation. But it is a little strange that before—and after—this scene, in Melody of Memory, he continues to act like making Sora disappear was his big plan. It doesn’t feel right, if he was supposed to be letting Sora “win” here.

I’ll be very curious to see if Xehanort has a role in Quadratum, and why exactly he “paved the way” for Sora to be there as well. Either way, I am holding out for a geniune change of heart from him, especially if what we saw in KH3 was more of a manipulation.

#Sorry to anyone who has heard me ramble about this before #but this time I brought a little more evidence to the table—haha #I’ve tried to type this up before but I always get shy about posting it because I don’t want to “ruin” kh3’s ending for anyone #But in all honesty as a Xehanort fan I would *like* this theory to be true #because I feel like it could ultimately lead to a more satisfying redemption for him

[nadziejastar]

(1) I suspect the reason you cling so tightly to the Roxas=Ventus theory is that it's your subconscious attempt to repair the damage caused by Xion being the original Subject X type that weakened a pre-existing story to make room for a new character. KH2 Roxas was the missing part of Sora preventing him from waking up but in Days this role was given to Xion instead. She goes on a journey of self discovery while Roxas sits on the sidelines for the vast majority of what's supposed to be his story.

(2) The result is Roxas being much hollower than the lead in one game and an important supporting character in others should be. But if Roxas and Ventus are the same character suddenly he has substance again! The change of his personality into something unlike his KH2 characterization now is purposeful instead of being lazy writing. It doesn't matter that he lost his original role of being Sora's other half, because he's now amnesiac Ven (the poor kid suffers from this problem a lot.)

(3) But really, this whole plot tumor could have been avoided if Nomura had simply stuck to his guns and not brought Roxas and company back at all, regardless of how much fans screamed that IT ISN'T FAIR and HE DESERVES TO BE HIS OWN PERSON. KH2 was bittersweet but conclusive about his fate and changing the story for fanservice demands has done the narrative no favors.

I can understand the comparison of Xion to Subject X. Both are female characters who were retconned into an existing male friendship. Skuld with Isa and Lea and Xion with Axel and Roxas. I think I understand what you’re getting at. Xion was the Subject X of 358/2 Days. She ruined Roxas’s character by overshadowing him in a Mary Sue-like way. So, I subconsciously want to view Ventus as the “real” Roxas because that allows me to wash my hands of Roxas’s story in 358/2 Days, which was more about Xion.

Believe it or not, Xion was actually very hated by much of the fandom when Days first came out. Sure, she had her fans, but opinions were a lot more divided. You wouldn’t believe how many people said that she was a Mary Sue and they hated how Roxas was so obsessed with her. And I can’t say there is no basis to that. When I first played Days, I felt kinda the same way. The whole concept of Xion was bizarre and convoluted.

When Roxas finally left the organization, it felt less like he was trying to discover himself, and more like he was mad that Axel was mean to Xion. Roxas was always “Xion, Xion, Xion”. Literally. In the novel, when he’s fighting Riku, he was trying not to forget her, so he kept repeating her name over and over. I understand why diehard Roxas fans wouldn’t like Roxas’s dynamic with Xion. He put her on a pedestal and he felt like more of a spectator in his own game. Personally, I saw Roxas’s relationship with Xion as more of a reflection of Sora’s relationship with Kairi. Roxas had Sora’s memories, so he acted like Sora would with Kairi. It doesn’t necessarily mean that Ventus would have acted like that with Kairi. That’s just my two cents, though.

Had I been more emotionally invested in Roxas, Xion probably would have bothered me more. This is just my own personal bias, but I was more upset with Skuld as Subject X than with Xion, even though I recognize the similarities. And I’ll be the first to admit, it’s because I didn’t like Akuroku. The ship, not the platonic friendship. Yeah, there’s the obvious thing like the age difference. But even if Roxas had been older, like a boyish-looking 23 year old or something, I still wouldn’t have liked it. That’s because I always had a soft spot for Axel, and I didn’t like his role in that ship. It seemed to me like Akuroku was a ship predominantly for Roxas fans.

In Akuroku, Roxas is the object of Axel’s affections. He’s the one Axel was desperately longing to see again. Roxas was the “prize”. Roxas was the one who was put on a pedestal. But it only ever went one way. Roxas never expressed those types of strong feelings for Axel. Axel was just the spectator of Roxas’s “specialness”. In a way, it’s similar to how Roxas fans must have felt about Roxas/Xion.

I admit I identified more with Axel. His death in KH2 hit me a lot harder than Roxas’s ending due to the fact that he was all alone, chasing after a kid who didn’t really feel as strongly about him as a “best friend”. It’s why I liked Lea and Isa in BBS. And it’s why I didn’t mind that Roxas was more focused on Xion, while Axel’s arc seemed to revolve more around his relationship with Saïx/Isa.

Judged on her own merits, I think Xion is only valuable as a character if her memories and experiences transferred over to Kairi. It was Kairi who was the flattest character. She badly needed her own journey of self-discovery to flesh her out. And if Xion retroactively allowed Kairi to gain character development, and form a deep friendship with Lea ahead of KH3, I think her existence was worth it for that.

But if Roxas and Ventus are the same character suddenly he has substance again!

Admittedly, I was never really that emotionally invested in Roxas. I liked him, but he was never one of my absolute favorites or anything. I felt sorry for him, but I never found him to be that interesting. And I have to say, being Sora’s Nobody was a big reason for that. It was hard for me to be invested in a character who was just a "Nobody” of another character. I felt the same about Naminé.

I never really liked KH2′s concept of Nobodies. It never made sense to me that turning into a Heartless would create a new person out of thin air. I don’t think that Nobodies should be able to coexist with their original selves unless there is a very, very unique reason. For instance, apprentice Xehanort had two hearts (Terra and Xehanort) when his Nobody was born. Sora had three hearts (Sora, Ventus, and Kairi) when his Nobody was born. They were special. Anomalies. Other than that, Nobodies make more sense when they’re like Axel. The Nobody is the same as the original person, just reborn without a heart.

I think Roxas previously being a human boy with his own name (not an anagram of Sora), his own past (not just a blank slate with jumbled up memories of Sora), and his own friends (the wayfinder trio), instead of just “Sora’s Nobody” is a lot more healthy for his character. It helped me to see him as his own person, and not just a fragment of Sora.

But “substance” might give the wrong connotation. At least in Days, Roxas was meant to be a pretty simple character. Even Axel said that. He wasn’t super smart or perceptive, and he wasn’t amazingly deep or complex. He wasn’t as ditzy as Sora, but he was still cut from the same cloth. He was a fairly ordinary kid. In KH2, he seemed a little more complex. But we didn’t get to see much of his character outside of the data Twilight Town.

This is my opinion on vanilla KH2 Roxas: Roxas was originally created to be Sora’s shadow. He was more introverted than Sora, more cynical, etc. That’s because, at least in the original KH2, Nobodies weren’t supposed to have hearts. Roxas’s darker personality was the result of him being conceived as a Nobody. He was Sora’s Nobody, so he was nicer than all the others. But he was a “heartless” character. He was “empty,” so to speak. Once Nomura retconned it so that Nobodies could have hearts, he decided to take Roxas in a different direction. He was no longer a “heartless” doppleganger of Sora. The reason he didn’t feel like Sora’s alter ego is because he actually wasn’t Sora at all. Plot twist! He was actually a boy who was secretly sleeping inside of Sora’s heart the whole time, named Ventus.

It doesn't matter that he lost his original role of being Sora's other half, because he's now amnesiac Ven (the poor kid suffers from this problem a lot.)

I think Ventus was conceived as an amnesiac specifically to explain why Roxas had no human memories other than the jumbled up ones belonging to Sora. Also, my own theory is that, like Ventus, Isa was an amnesiac after being experimented on. Lea took care of him, so Axel felt a special connection to Roxas because of that.

But really, this whole plot tumor could have been avoided if Nomura had simply stuck to his guns and not brought Roxas and company back at all, regardless of how much fans screamed that IT ISN'T FAIR and HE DESERVES TO BE HIS OWN PERSON. KH2 was bittersweet but conclusive about his fate and changing the story for fanservice demands has done the narrative no favors.

In all honesty, I liked the fact that Roxas was retconned to be Ventus instead of Sora’s other half. I liked Roxas’s prologue in KH2, but I couldn’t help but feel like it was kinda pointless? If Roxas was just Sora’s shadow, who was meant to merge back with him and disappear, his whole story felt meaningless. Like that one essay said, Roxas’s story didn’t even have much impact on Sora’s story other than the organization members constantly calling him “Roxas”. It was like Nomura wanted to create a new character, but was too afraid, so only took a half measure. Roxas was only half Sora. But since he had a different personality, different hair, difference voice, different clothes, it was only natural that fans didn’t see him as another Sora.

Personally, I never thought Roxas being Sora’s other half was all that convincing. So, I welcomed the explanation of Roxas being Ventus in a previous life. Then he could be brought back as a separate character with his own identity. Made more sense than him coming back as “Sora’s Nobody”.

The change of his personality into something unlike his KH2 characterization now is purposeful instead of being lazy writing.

Well, here’s the biggest reason I think Roxas was intended, originally, to be Ventus. Why would Nomura make Ventus SO much like Roxas? Scratch that. Why even make Ventus at all!? It’s not like he had to be created. Why not make Ventus look completely original, and have no connection to Roxas? There was no reason that he had to be sleeping inside of Sora’s heart.

If Roxas was always going to come back all on his own, there was no need to have Ventus at all. Or at the very least, Ventus could have had a completely original character design. He could still have been Terra and Aqua’s little bro, and still have his heart be asleep, in need of being woken up. But why make him look like Roxas of all things? In my opinion, it’s because Days was not supposed to be a standalone story. From its conception, its story was connected to BBS.

Axel was hinted to have a dark and tragic past in Days. In BBS, we just so happen to see Lea and Isa sneaking into the castle where dangerous human experiments were taking place. Xemnas had Terra’s body and memories. He was talking to Aqua and looking for the Chamber of Waking, where Ventus was sleeping. It’s not too much of a stretch that Nomura wanted Roxas to be strongly connected to BBS as well, by having Ventus’s heart. Fans downplay Roxas’s connection to Ventus as much as possible. “They only LOOK similar.” But I don’t think that was Nomura’s intention. 

I just don’t see any other reason why Nomura would make Ventus look almost exactly like Roxas, give them almost the same outfit, give them the same voice actor, change Roxas’s personality to be more like Ventus in Days, make them both serve practically the same role in KH3 (someone sleeping inside Sora’s heart) and even have Ventus meet Lea in BBS and have a similar dynamic with Axel as he did with Terra...if I was supposed to see them as two wholly separate people who just happen to look alike. If Nomura’s intention truly was for me to see them as two unique characters, all I can say is that he did an outstandingly HORRIBLE job and is utterly incompetent.

#kh meta #kh roxas #kh ventus

[masterxsquare-blog]

Was watching some KH III theory videos, and was watching one where the poster was proposing potential shocking plot twists for the game.

One of the proposed twists involved Sora having to kill the BBS trio.

I’ll be honest, as I’ve mentioned before on this blog, I’m not a fan of ‘who lives and who dies’ being the main marketing incentive behind a game, movie, or comic. It honestly comes off as distracting, because you’re so worried about which of your favorite characters currently has a gun pointed at their head, that you honestly can’t focus on being entertained. It had turned me off from movies like Infinity War, because I was too busy worrying about which of the characters were going to die that I couldn’t focus on the movie itself.

And with KH III being the finale of the ‘Seeker of Darkness Arc’, of course there’s got to be weight to it, but does that always have to mean character death?

Especially when it’s been implied for the last few games (mainly 2.8, Dream Drop Distance, and Coded), that rescuing Terra, Aqua, and Ventus is one of the utmost priorities for Sora and the gang. Well, I mean, from the trailers, it’s looking more like Sora’s goal is finding Roxas, while Riku is the one being tasked with saving the BBS trio.

Somehow, I still think Sora’s quest to find Roxas will lead him to Ventus instead.

The problem is what little we know about the game at the moment beyond what we’ve seen in the trailers, and all the twists we’re getting from those alone. Following some statements from Nomura, there is just way too much conflicting information.

There are so many ways so many fan theories could be right, but also wrong. Of course, they are just theories, and not facts, but still.

There are two statements I recall Nomura saying, statements that have been hovering in the back of my mind. One was his response to the fan reaction of Dark Aqua in the E3 trailer, where he stated that--

‘it looks like Aqua had fallen to darkness, but just because she has fallen, doesn’t mean she can’t be saved’. (or something to that effect, I’m paraphrasing)

Considering Aqua is, arguably, one of the most popular KH characters, based on one of the last character poles I looked at (she scored number one in the favorite female character category, and had more votes than the winner of the favorite male category). The idea of killing her off feels like a step in the wrong direction, and would be a PR nightmare for Square.

But then there was another statement Nomura made. Something along the lines of ‘fans having to accept some harsh realities’, frequently making use of the phrase that fans should ‘brace themselves’. We also know that there are a lot of characters who will not be returning after this game.

Though, Nomura also has a track record of saying one thing, and then doing something completely different. In fact, earlier on, he, apparently stated that Sora will always be the lead of Kingdom Hearts, but then has also implied that KH III will mark the end of Sora’s story with the conclusion of the Seeker of Darkness Saga.

This also has to be taken with the fact that, the game has not been released yet, we know nothing about it beyond the trailers and what little Nomura is allowed to say in interviews. Statements Nomura is making in interviews could be false information so as not to spoil the game.

To be honest, I don’t want any of these characters to die. Yes, I’m obviously attached to the BBS trio (BBS was the game that ultimately got me into Kingdom Hearts), and I know that for a game with as much weight as KH III, the possibilities that certain characters will be gone for good after this is certainly a factor, but is it so wrong to want all the trios to make it through?

Like, III is supposed to be big, like, really big. It’s the conclusion of a story arc that’s been going on for over a decade, almost every major character is supposed to make a return appearance for this game. There is no denying, this game is going to be huge. And already, with the reveal of ‘Aquanort’, the stakes only keep getting higher.

But Nomura says she’s still not beyond saving.

But then, we’ve seen people get ‘Norted’, but we’ve never seen people get ‘un-norted’, so how is she not beyond saving if she’s a vessel now? Closest I can think of to someone being ‘un-norted’, is Riku, having fallen under Ansem/Xehanort’s influence in KH I, and even taking on his appearance for most of KH II, though, technically that was just Riku having opened himself to the darkness, and not becoming a vessel of Xehanort.

Of course, there’s also the fact that Riku and Sora can unlock hearts. So maybe that’s how they start ‘de-norting’ vessels.

Yeah, I’ve made the joke that ‘if any of the trios die in KH III, we riot’, but in all honesty, if they go the route of, ‘the only way to save Terra, Aqua, and Ventus is to kill them’, I probably WOULD riot.

Like, why would you put so much weight on their rescue, if you’re just going to kill them off? Why pull the rug out from under us like that after stringing us along for so long? For a series known for emotionally hitting fans where it hurts, this one would be a VERY low blow.

That’s not to say I’m not expecting a boss fight with the entire BBS trio, I’ve even wrote a theory about that, but I’d much rather a boss fight that results in them being saved and brought back to Yen Sid’s tower or Mickey’s Castle fore healing rather than them fading into nothing. 

Like I said, that would be a low blow. There’s writing an emotional story with an emotional twist that will tug at the player’s heart strings, but to have us strung along for an entire series of games where one of the sole purposes is the rescue of these three, only ends in all three of them dying, would just be too cruel. 

Hell, if I had it my way, a BBS trio boss fight would simply be an arena fight in the Olympus Colosseum and nothing more.

I dunno, maybe I should stop looking at other theories and just stick to my own? I’m just not a fan of the theories and marketing incentive of ‘he’s dead, she’s dead, he’s DEFINITELY going to die’.

#OutOfChess(OOC) #not really a negative post #just something I'm not sure I'm ready for