#I didn't expect to just word vomit everything I just wanted to see more Harvey-Jason content and remembered about Penguin and Black Mask

[azol-otl]

While I know that Jason interacts with Harvey Dent in Task Force Z and that he had arcs with Black Mask and Penguin in rhato, I wish that dc would explore what he thinks of these men more thoroughly and with respect or at least references to his pre-flashpoint history with them.

Because one of Jason’s big points for why killing would be the better option is the amount of bodies afterwards is not? Why are the lives of innocents worth less than their murderers or their hypothetical redemption?

Jason saved Black Mask’s life as Robin. He is the reason Sionis was alive to do everything he did. It would be so interesting to see that fact eat Jason up inside. That because he saved this man’s life, Sionis was able to become someone that ruins lives whether they be his clientele (which Catherine would have been) or his workers (which Willis would have been).  Sionis is basically one of the biggest threats to kids like Jason was, but also one of the biggest threats to Park Row and from what we’ve seen he’s made himself a pillar of Gotham’s underworld, meaning that he can’t just be killed because the fallout would be catastrophic.

With Penguin, well the story was retconned and will never be touched again because it paints Bruce is a negative light, but back in the day he used to just be a jewel thief. None of this organized crime business he mostly stole stuff. And at one point he actually tried to go straight. And Bruce didn’t believe him despite Jason arguing that Penguin was genuinely turning a new leaf. Instead he gets thrown into jail and it’s kind of fucked up in the way comics are and after Jason’s death he along with several other rogues end up taking a level in depravity and competence. So we could honestly have this be Penguin’s “Then Let Me Be Evil” point. We could have him be both a reason why Bruce hangs so hard onto redemption (because he didn’t believe someone before and they came out worse) but also as a symbol to Jason about how the system doesn’t work and was never designed to work. Because Penguin came out worse and for a long time basically flaunts the fact that he’s a criminal with a thin veneer of legality that works because of his money.

And with Harvey, well. Harvey is Bruce’s friend. A very close friend that Bruce should remember every time they are clashing. Bruce remembers Harvey Dent the district attorney. He remembers a good person. Not only that but Harvey’s been pretty consistent in the fact that he very much needs help. He’s had a couple of arcs across different media where he is ‘cured’ (which is its own can of worms)  and how in the end it didn’t matter because he became Two-Face again. And this should infuriate Jason because Harvey murdered Willis. Harvey is one of the reasons Jason’s life sucked so much! Without Willis he and Catherine didn’t have enough money to survive! Even if Jason didn’t like Willis or if the abuse retcons stick, he knows that without Willis they couldn’t survive. And Harvey had him killed! Harvey should be Bruce’s longshot, the man Bruce never gives up on, and he should be a symbol of Bruce’s selfishness to Jason because how many people ended up the same as him because of Harvey.

(Side Note: I love how when Jason says “Only him” referring to the Joker, he brings up Harvey who caused a lot of grief, Penguin who got worse in the system, and Crane who doesn’t even see people as people. Like these guys are obviously not good and Jason’s like, “Not even these horrible people causing suffering, just the clown.”)

On the other side I want to see Jason interact with Killer Croc and Ivy as well. 

Croc’s one of those characters who’s actually been treated pretty nicely after flashpoint and while that is wild it could also be used. We know he has chilled out since his debut (though is he still a cannibal? I’m really not sure). He’s canonically Roy’s AA sponsor (which again, wild as shit. But even with how Roy’s been handled I love the idea that he was at such a low point he was trying to commit “Suicide by Croc” which honestly feels like something vigilantes do (continue to fight with little care to themselves and hope someone takes them out in a way they’d still be viewed as a hero for)). He has been drafted into the Suicide Squad (which again, another way to show that the system doesn’t work because good lord is Task Force X so many human right violations [but also something I can see the actual U.S. government doing]). So he’s killed a ton of people but he’s also pretty much “Out of my territory and you’re fine”, saved someone close to Jason, and generally not in Jason’s way. Like how would Croc file into Jason’s morality? Does it even matter? 

And with Ivy, well... She’s right. Corporations are absolutely destroying the planet, and if anything Gotham’s like one of the worst at it considering all the weird chemicals and shit. Like the way Ivy goes about it is both wrong and absurdly incompetent, but she has the right idea. No Man’s Land has been retconned but the event was kind of Ivy’s first steps into anti-villain as far as I’m aware of (until Harley Quinn exploded in popularity and just absorbed her into her sphere). How does Jason act with someone who does bad shit but if reigned back a little, would cause way more good than bad in the long run. Or does he only care about the ‘right now’?

Uhhh, this was really long and consists of mostly word vomit but tldr; Jason should interact with the rogues besides the clowns and everyone adjacent to them because they either tie into his morals or history and that’d be cool.

#Man this is a mess #I didn't expect to just word vomit everything I just wanted to see more Harvey-Jason content and remembered about Penguin and Black Mask #And then I thought about Croc and Ivy #He'd probably have an interesting relationship with Freeze too I think because of the whole 'Sacrificing everything I am for them' thing #What rogue/hero interactions that we don't see/don't see enough do you think would be cool #Except for the clowns. I'm sick of them #Jason Todd #Roman Sionis #Harvey Dent #Oswald Cobblepot #Pamela Isley #Waylon Jones #Don't 'uhm actually' me I will. not. care.