#anyways. if someone comments on my speech patterns or a possible accent it gives me an identity crisis and then i remember it forever | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

necropsittacus · 4 years

Text

fuckoff long post about my skeksis language thoughts below the cut. i ought to do more with this but it’s been sitting in my files for a couple months now and i want to Show People

-i've talked about this hc on here before, but i like it enough to repeat. the existence of names like skekmal and skekvar indicate that they have some means of producing labial consonants with a beak (presumably the skeksis can pronounce their own names. also, while i am very fond of assuming the same "this is translated from what they're actually saying" conceit tolkien uses applies to tdc, it seems unnecessary and overly complicated to assume anything of the sort about *character names,* especially ones that don't sound like real-world names to start with. i am going to assume unless told otherwise that those are their actual in-universe names and not "translated" for human benefit). my favored solution is that they have syrinxes like a parrot’s rather than humanoid vocal apparatus.

-there are separate extant skeksis and gelfling languages. (evidence for this: the skeksis were straight up originally supposed to speak their own language in the movie. "shadows of the dark crystal" has a comment about how well skekso speaks gelfling. also, "shadows of the dark crystal" does some things with speech patterns for the skeksis, which i will get into below and which, with the possible exception of chamberlain and novels!hunter, make most sense to me to treat as second language difficulties--i have a hard time seeing, say, emperor deliberately speaking ""wrongly"")

one might expect that the skeksis, being the way they are, would install their own language as the official or state language. given that "shadows of the dark crystal" specifies that skekso's accent in the Gelfling language is pretty good, in a scene taking place in the castle ("his voice sounded almost cultured, his accent in the gelfling tongue much more perfected than the stilted broken phrases of the Chamberlain" (*shadows of the dark crystal* 202)), i'm assuming that *isn't* the situation, and for whatever reason they're using Gelfling for state business. given the skeksis in general, that sure isn't out of a sense of benevolence.

one option: the skeksis treat their language as a Special In-Group Thing that they don't want to use with or maybe teach to outsiders. it's become essentially a ritual thing (which might in itself warrant an explanation as to how that came about, tbh), or they do use it for casual purposes but only among themselves, something like that.

another option: there's some specific reason the skeksis lang would be impractical as a state language--i think the most likely thing for this is that there's some aspect(s) of the skeksis lang that are just anatomically difficult or impossible for gelflings to produce, perceive, or both (my initial thought was just "they might have sounds a gelfling doesn't have the right anatomy to make," influenced by the syrinx idea, but tbh going with that same idea i think like, crows, have fairly nuanced signals that we might just hear as "caw" across the board, so a species with both that sort of vocal anatomy and their own language could conceivably have nuances of sound difference a different species wouldn't Pick Up On, either?)

and these aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive, either

-name vs title: (this is as much my friend skye's (@deerpunk) idea as mine, so i don't want to take full credit for it) using a skeksis's personal name vs their title is a formality distinction pretty similar to the T-V distinction, except that, due to the skeksis being How They Are, the more positive familiarity/intimacy sense has been lost in most contexts, for most skeksis, and most of what's left is the insult sense. (there are some exceptions to this: skekvar to skeksil, when he's decided he trusts him, maybe skeklach and skekok (although that strikes me as half-jokingly rude friendship, so it could be both tbh), skekmal's death--and that could be a breaking down of formality expectations because the situation is so dire.) because strength, respect, ornamentation, dignity are so important to the skeksis, using someone's title to refer to them is the default, and using a personal name is specifically marking something. this is also why we very rarely see anyone call emperor "skekso" (with the exception of, to the point i’ve gotten to in the novels at the time of writing, skeksa and skekmal--and those two seem more likely to talk back to skekso anyway tbh)--it would just be rude as hell and there might be consequences

it's also of immense interest to me that at one point in "shadows of the dark crystal," skekmal refers to emperor as "so." i have not seen this kind of shortening anywhere else. it's either a peculiarity of skekmal, which would check out, given how weird his speech patterns generally are in that book, or an additional level of informality, which presumably no one but skekmal has the guts to *use* (especially for skekso holy shit).

-"shadow of the dark crystal" gives several skeksis specific fucky speech patterns (presumably in the gelfling language), *besides* what's going on with chamberlain, which i think can mostly be attributed to like. Chamberlain. chamberlain has multiple scenes in AOR where there are only other skeksis present (so i think it’s a fair guess that they’d be using the Skeksis language), and his speech patterns are just as weird, in the same ways, as when he’s talking to gelfling.

so what i'm saying about this is mostly discounting chamberlain, although i will say that the “using the same weird speech patterns in sentences that are in-universe presumably in skeksis and gelfling” thing, to me, suggests maybe that he actually has a different kind of fucked up speech pattern across languages, and it’s being “translated” as the same for the benefit of the viewers (i would guess the skeksis and gelfling languages don’t have exactly the same grammar; i would also guess that chamberlain talking kind of weird is, as iirc the wiki suggests, a deliberate choice meant to project a certain image). it’s also interesting that from the very little information i have just from “shadows of the dark crystal,” chamberlain does not make the same errors as emperor (possibly he actually speaks gelfling fairly well and is playing up “oh look at poor harmless chamberlain, i don’t speak your language too good, be nice to me :)” ?)

i'm going to talk about *shadows of the dark crystal*!skekmal separately, since his speech patterns, as mentioned above, are kind of wild and have some commonalities with both chamberlain and the other skeksis in the book. i feel it necessary to distinguish novels skekmal from aor skekmal, who talks normally if a bit melodramatically. (also i'm getting the impression they have slightly different personalities, from what i've seen so far, but that's not relevant to this monstrosity of a post)

i am going to list the weird sentences individually in a bit here. the most notable oddities (discounting chamberlain and hunter) are copula omission, verb number agreement (possibly person, too, but english has so little verb agreement that that's hard to judge); "gelfling" being pluralized as "gelfling," which i think is common enough in tdc but in combination with the previous point made me wonder about pluralization errors? the omission of definite articles, and some odd word order stuff that could also be taken as sheer pretentiousness

copula omission:

"gelfling the ones that do the fixing" (202)

"gelfling causing problems for us, lord skeksis (202) ("lord skeksis" there also feels odd to me; i think i would have expected a definite article, and maybe a different word order)

"all gelfling traitors" (211)

verb agreement:

"we love gelfling, we do, we loves them" (203)

"after all skeksis does for you! gelfling came here just to tell such lies!" (211)

misc:

“daughter-soldier” (202) is not egregious but a bit odd

“yes?” to end a wh-question (202)

"silverling is sounding like a traitor herself" (212)

"see the crystal herself" (214) is not terrible but feels a Little weird

“we care not”

hunter: (not sure whether to even count this for Skeksis Speech Oddities because his speech patterns are SO wild)

"skeksis tower"

also drops first person subject pronoun (222)

"end this now, skekMal will do" (222) -- third person for himself, weird word order

omission of third person subject pronoun also

consistent omission of articles, except "skekTek the Scientist"

"not if skekMal make and take it for *himself*" - verbal agreement error

"what we does with Gelfling" - verbal agreement error

more subject pronoun omission and verb agreement errors- "silverling wanted to know what we does with gelfling. wanted to see for itself...got what it deserves" (222)

"hard to fight while carrying stone" (225) - this is okay but feels kind of weird (at least personally i’d probably say “it’s hard to fight…” in this context)

skektek also omits subject pronouns (238)--"gets to see the crystal *now*"

we don't see skektek omit first person, which is interesting; i’m taking that as essentially a characterization thing--it makes sense to have skektek in particular emphasizing his own presence and relevance

"skeksis taking care of it, taking care of gelfling" - past progressive expressed as simple progressive with no copula (243)

"how's skeksis to protect little gelfling when crystal cracked?" - agreement error, article omission (243)

"when growing old? growing weak?" (243) - omission of both subject pronoun and copula

negative concord--"not one with nothing"--(245)

"where the one with wings" (248) - copula omission

"skekmal smells 'em" (248)--is this the first place we get a potentially animate pronoun used for a gelfling by a skeksis? and it's plural?

"what says gelfling"

"gelfling wings comes fluttering out to save it" (248)--with "it" being gurjin, presumably, since skekMal would be unable to grab naia since he doesn't know exactly where she is. so this would be "gelfling wings comes fluttering out to save gurjin;" "gelfling wings" could be interpreted as "gelfling with wings" or "gelfling's wings" with about equal workability in this sentence--"gelfling with wings comes fluttering out to save gurjin" or "gelfling's wings come fluttering out to save gurjin"--Gurjin takes it as the second ("gelfling wings fly her to ha'rar")

"skekMal kills this one, then it kills the others" (249)--skekMal using not only third person, but inanimate third person, to refer to himself. skekMal using third person like this could be taken as meaning that referring to yourself in the third person either has a different connotation than in english (i tend to think of it as sort of childlike or cutesy, and skekMal is REALLY not that), and most likely different connotations for skekMal doing it than chamberlain doing it, or this is just a really weird take on him.

also, I’ve mostly been assuming the skeksis using “it” for gelfling is just a “they don’t see gelflings as fully sentient” thing, but that can’t really apply to skekMal; i wonder if the skeksis language doesn’t have a pronoun animacy distinction, or it doesn’t work the same way as in english, and they’re just Worse about remembering to use the right ones for gelfling, because of the “not seeing gelflings as people” problem?

you could take that farther and say the skeksis language, or maybe the urskeks? don't have third person pronouns at *all;* (at any rate, my personal headcanon has always been that they didn't originally have gendered pronouns, or really gender at all per se, and skeksa and (probably) skeklach (and by extension presumably their urru counterparts) just heard this "she" and "woman" thing from non-skeksis and went "yeah i want that")

also this could have relevance to chamberlain and novels!skekmal using third person for themselves so much

my friend skye, mentioned above, took this and suggested the skeksis lang is grammatically similar to japanese, in connection with the urskeks being super collectivist, which i like. It would also jive with the verbal agreement and pluralization errors, inconsistent use of articles, and copula omission.

this post may be updated with more novels stuff later on, because This Is What I’m Doing With My Major I Guess.

#txt #tdc #long post

3 notes · View notes

things-we-used-tc-share · 5 years

Text

Manifestor // 18

Plot: Set in a world where Witchcraft is real, and the government hunts down those who practice magic, Thomas must flee to an underground safehouse after being discovered. Now fighting a war against Witches who seek the end of non-magic people, Thomas must learn to control and harvest his powers, as well as the manifestation of his sides to bring about peace and unity in the Human and Witch world. (Nanowrimo 2018)

A surprise comes in for the five of them on an otherwise unsuspecting morning. The sound of static fills the control rooms, and Jack is pushing buttons, unsure of when he actually learned to do this but Chase seems to know and is controlling his hands like a puppet. There are two people stood, waiting, looking around them with fear ingrained in their expression like a reflex, waiting to be let into the building. Everyone’s looking at Jack, whose hands are shaking over the control panel “Don’t do it,” He mutters, but the child in his heart is already pushing the button, his morality saw scared and afraid people and wanted them to be safe.

He cusses under his breath as the others scramble next to Jack, Thomas throws Jack a look of worry, unsure why he was losing control of his possession in terms of himself. The sounds of waves passing through the building grumble and crackle in mimic of a TV screen that could only play white noise. Suddenly, there are two bodies on the floor, the first had black and purple hair that was trimmed short in a masculine cut; they reminded Thomas distinctively of Virgil as they peer up through lined dark eyes and straight through the American’s soul. The second wore a pastel pink dress and blinked steadily through pale blue eyes before a smile dances on her lips. “Hello, I’m Lucia, this is Atticus,” Atticus groaned in response, rubbing the back of their head firmly. “He’s grumpy, we’ve done a lot of running to get here, or swimming, depending on how you look at it,” Her accent sounds distinctively British, or English and it takes a moment for the realization of her words to sink in.

“Wait, swim, here?” His lips part in shock, they both seem dry and okay and now he has many, many questions about the strangers they just let into their home and base “Why are you here?” He finally settles on one last question, reaching the daunting realization that complete strangers of which they had no idea of their intentions were stood before him in what is essentially his home.

“Well, we ran away, from home, to be here, at the safe house, but looking now, it looks like there’s probably something we’ve missed out on,” She stands and straightens out her dress, dusting herself off. “As for getting here it was simple, Atticus created an air bubble and I propelled us forward, no need for any complicated travel passes or waiting time, we were here in an hour, I think we may have broken the sound barrier along the way,”

“Broke my fuckin’ ribs that’s for sure,” His accent sounded different, the dialect was something similar to Jack’s and if he hadn’t been so used to Jack’s speech patterns he might’ve said this man was Irish. “I’m from Liverpool, she’s from Bristol, it’s a long story, do you have any food?” He’s wincing as he moved and it’s now Thomas notices the scratches and scrapes all over him, this man had seen some fighting before he’d come here.

“I think first you need a first aid room,” He says gently, taking a step towards the man, whose eyes flash a stormy purple and lips pull back to reveal bared teeth and a hiss of defense. “It’s okay,” Thomas holds his hands up “I’m not going to touch you if you don’t want me too, but at least let me have a look, I don’t need to touch you to heal you,”

Perhaps it’s the American’s love of broken people, objects, maybe it’s Patton’s overbearing morality and need to help others, maybe it’s Logan’s reasoning saying he could be a useful attribute when patched up, maybe it’s Virgil’s worry for people not unlike himself. Mostly, however, he’s very sure it’s Roman gushing at the tall, dark and handsome man that’s leaning heavily into his own weight. He tells Roman, at least, to shut up so he can focus on leading the other.

“So as you’ll have noticed this place is kind of deserted, we’re mostly runaways if you like, we’re building up a team of sorts, trying to work on our strengths,” Thomas pauses as he opens the door to his room, where the supplies are all piled on top of one chest of drawers. “There was a bad battle here, many of us lost friends, family even, we don’t even know how many people made it out alive,” He gestures for Atticus to sit on the bed and sits down next to him, keeping his vow of not touching as he studies. “I’m not going to touch you, I’m just going to hover my fingers over the wounded areas, it’s a slower heal but these cuts don’t look too deep. He’s not sure it’s him talking, he knows he relaying Logan’s information, however.

He lets his fingertips linger over the scars on his face, eyes closed as he considers the healing spells and powers that float around his mind, he wants to patch the other up, take the stinging pain away, and take the scars away. Being careful not to touch the easily startled boy’s skin, he watches light flow from his fingertips in a way he’d never seen before and the cuts started to heal up slowly. Awe and relief brushed Atticus’ face, blinking gently through line eyes before a rush of air passes through his lungs and his hand gently touch his side. “My ribs…” He mutters gently “They really fuckin hurt, I think I’ve bruised them or something, I fell before and they’ve not felt right since,” He hesitantly pulls his jacket off and pulls his shirt over his head, eyes avoiding Thomas’. There are scars on his chest, that’s the first thing he notices, two long scars that still look to be healing underneath his pecs. The second thing he notices, quite bashfully, is that this man looks like he could have been carved from Greek Architecture and then place at the entrance to a palace.

That’s to say he has a nice body.

Thomas turns his attention to the ribs, looking up hesitantly to ask if he can touch, once gaining Atticus’ consent he gently presses against the ribs, and listen to Logan’s feedback as he survey’s through his own eyes. “Okay, I should be able to do this, your ribs have sort of become slightly uh…detached, from where they’re supposed to be can you raise your arms above your head?” Atticus does as he is instructed and Thomas closes his eyes, focusing on the bone structure of a human body as Logan conjures up the image for him. For a moment he thinks he can see under Atticus’ skin until there’s the sound of relief floating past his friend’s lips. “Better?” Atticus gives a quiet nod, a small smile gracing his expression as he pulls his shirt back on. The American knows he’s should look away from the scars on the other’s chest, he only really knows of two reasons why someone would have those sort of scars on them. He doesn’t want to ask, really it would be rude, and they’ve only just met.

But the other man seems to want to confirm Thomas’ flushed face of questions “I’m transgender,” He says gently, “That’s what the scars are,” The brunet nods in response, he’d known but it would have felt impolite to ask, he’d met a few transgender people in his lifetime and this wasn’t a new experience for him, he just hoped that everyone could be accepting of Atticus should it also be revealed to them. “Thanks for not like, immediately interrogating me about them though, I get really tired when people start asking me a million questions, honestly, makes me want to curl up in a corner and panic or cry, or both if it’s a good day,” There’s dry sarcasm in his tone, something the other, also becoming more humorously cynical, could appreciate.

“I wouldn’t like to be interrogated on my life,” He shrugs and stands, stretching his own back “Would you like some food now that you’re all patched up?” Atticus nods, moving his violet and black hair out of his sharp eyes and following Thomas towards the hall “To catch you up to speed a little, I mentioned there was a big battle here, well the longer you stay here the more danger you’re in if you want to leave you can at any time,”

“Our safety out there isn’t a guarantee either,” The younger shrugs, his hands digging into his pockets “We’ll probably starve to death, get caught and slaughtered, or kill ourselves, and hey I’m starting to like you a bit,” His humor reminds Thomas distinctively of Jack, making as many jokes as possible so maybe no one will actually notice that there’s worry written all into the code of his voice, melding with his DNA. “We’re too tired to go anywhere else today anyway,” He finished on as they walk into the open hall to see the others.

Lucia was talking animatedly with Dan, who was blinking several times over in desperate attempt to digest any of the words she is saying, whilst Dodie was talking with Jack and Phil, occasionally the three would spare amused glances at the British man’s face of sheer bewilderment as the newcomer attempted to talk to him. “Yeah she has that effect, makes everyone else in the room feel just a little bit dumber,” Atticus comments with bemusement before seating opposite the others, Thomas took the seat next to him.

They began to eat their food, Thomas and Jack exchanging glances over their food, worried about their apparent new friends’ safety and if they would make the morning.

Ko-Fi

0 notes