#character roundups

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 13: The Konoha Council

AKA the last one! (I think) AKA The People Who Did A Genocide.

Man, Kishimoto really is the master of adding in plot points that make previously "good" characters look REAL bad (probably without realizing it). Personally considering his importance to the main character I think he fucked up with Jiraiya most but Hiruzen is a close second. How are you going to go from the kind, fatherly leader of the village to a guy who doesn't have enough backbone/care enough to not let an entire clan in his village get murdered?

As for those other three I think it's funny how they are all set up as "not great". I mean Tsunade is completely sick of all of them. We are supposed to be mad at the two non-character elders for not letting Naruto do whatever. Danzo literally prevented Naruto from getting back to the village during the Pain fight sooner (not that I care but the narrative does), he's acting shady the entire time he is interim hokage, he's an asshole. BUT THEN when it comes to the Uchiha massacre suddenly we couldn't possibly make them look evil for that. Perish the thought! Kakashi is looking those two elders right in the face after he has been told the story by Obito (which he might not believe, but at least was like need to confirm) and the narrative does nothing with it. I think you can barely see them. And this wasn't in the original manga, but someone at some point was like "yeah, they are still around doing the same job" post-Naruto because they're there. No consequences or nothing. And Danzo, well, when Sasuke kills Danzo which was fully within Sasuke's right to do if he wanted, Danzo gets a sad flashback about how we wanted to protect the Leaf and was jealous of Hiruzen.

Here's the thing, I have no problem with giving some background to a villain obviously, but the way it's done here really makes me think it's not trying to expand on Danzo's character but make him sympathetic at the last second. If that wasn't supposed to be the case it would have been more effective to one, have someone mention that Danzo wanting the whole Uchiha clan dead was pretty fucked up and two, put Danzo's flashback somewhere else.

Finally, what do all these people have in common...the highest echelon of Konoha...oh yeah, they're all Tobirama's students. Because I probably need to say it again, I don't think this was Tobrirama's plan because if it was he would have had to be playing 5 dimensional chess to get things to happen how they did. It probably more so happened because Tobirama didn't trust the Uchiha clan, put them in a precarious position with the police force, and Kishimoto probably didn't think of it but if he was any good at writing it would be obvious Tobirama instilled the same idea into his students to an extent. And that's perfectly reasonable character/story-wise! These people could have just done something really horrible, by the time anyone who wasn't directly involved found out Hiruzen was dead, Danzo is literally the second worst (he threatened to murder a 7 year old to his 13 year old brother) so it should be at least a NEUTRAL thing that Sasuke killed him, and then those two other fuckers don't do anything anyway so I say jail. But rather than saying these four people fucked up, Kishimoto rather make Sasuke look evil because he can't make the institution of Konoha look bad and we need to set up some kind of Sasuke/Naruto parallel.

#character roundups

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 12: Tobirama Senju

Shock and awe, Tobirama gets the treatment most of the characters in Naruto get from me. I don't have a problem with his character, I have a problem with the framing.

I probably could have done with more actually seeing Uchiha and Senju members killing each other so we better understood why everyone was so stuck in their ways besides Hashirama and (kinda) Madara because otherwise it's like why can't everyone be chill about it and try to change like they did? Like I've said the founders era flashback could have been a hundred chapters long and got really into the nitty gritty of it and I would have lived.

But that's so we can understand Tobirama's character better, other than that the character does his job. He doesn't get over his Uchiha bias, is a weird eugenicist over it, it causes a shit ton of problems, horrible things come from it, the entire Uchiha clan is wiped out which he probably did not intend but that's what his actions led to. What? Am I going to be mad a character is effective in their role? No. It's a story. Also Madara and Tobirama have a "the girls are fightinggggg" Real Housewives of Konoha vibe in the flashback and I think that's an amusing dynamic.

The problem is OF COURSE the framing. Fucking Orochimaru calls out one specific thing Tobirama did wrong and the narrative is still like "well, it still got to that point so I guess the Uchiha deserve to die." All of his eugenics sounding bullshit is just brushed off as "oh, Tobirama you scoundrel" rather than a real concern. Also according to the narrative Tobirama's theories are correct so fuck realistic and compelling storytelling I guess. That's the problem here. Not Tobirama's character, but the framing of him.

It's funny to me that fans get mad when you don't take what Kishimoto tries to feed you at face value and point out that Tobirama is wrong because really despite the fact that I think he sucks I want better for Tobirama's character really. It's vaguely there during the war arc (I'm not sure to what end because Kishimoto), but what if we really emphasized Tobirama working with Sasuke during the war arc? What if he saw this kid not putting the village first like he wanted, but he's still putting the sake of the world first and that means something? I'm not saying this like Tobirama needed a redemption arc because that's not what a redemption arc is, just that what if we added some layers? What about even if you can't do shit about it maybe you can start to wonder if perhaps you were wrong about a group of people? What about more understanding about the distrust between the Uchiha and Senju clans, what about reckoning with the fact that Tobirama was saying and doing some shady shit, what about that despite the fact that he's weird about the Uchiha clan it was inadvertent that he spread his bias against the Uchiha clan to his students and set the clan up for failure. He had an Uchiha for a student what about pointing out how having this one student you think is "one of the good ones" doesn't preclude you from having bias against a group? Isn't that more interesting? Wouldn't that make the character and story richer? That's what I think anyway and I want that for this manga because there's some good stuff there. I wouldn't bother talking about it so much otherwise.

#character roundups

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 11: Hashirama Senju

Anyone who has been around a while already knows I'm a Hashirama apologist. The man fucked up a lot don't get me wrong, but I never get a feeling of maliciousness from it, just you know incompetence, willful ignorance, short-sightedness.

The only evidence I've been given that Hashirama had any negative feelings towards the Uchiha is the line about Sasuke having a great brother which could easily be read as him deescalating the situation caused by Tobirama. Like I'm not saying you can't read it the other way, just I'm not beholden to that reading when there is another one available. Also yeah, Kishimoto doesn't give a shit about the Uchiha clan but I don't get the feeling he wants us to read Hashirama as someone who was biased against the Uchiha. I also don't get what anyone would get from seeing Hashirama as someone who I guess secretly hated the Uchiha and was psyched that they died rather than just someone who couldn't bring himself to create a riff between himself and his brother and was blind to the writing on the wall in that regard. Unless you just hate nuance and don't want it for some reason.

Like with Itachi, Hashirama acknowledges to some extent that what he imagined for the village didn't come true and his actions caused problems. The narrative doesn't seem to agree or at least changes its mind at the end when Madara says Hashirama's vision still existed while Madara's didn't (what?), but that is a fault of storytelling not Hashirama as a character.

#character roundups

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 10: Madara Uchiha

Other than "Madara didn't need a moment at the end where he goes idk maybe Hashirama was right (even though some of Madara's points were proven right as well)" and the fact the Madara is apparently evil because of rock/Curse of Hatred and not someone who did a lot of shitty things because trauma there's not much I would change about Madara so I'm just going to talk about him in general.

Now this is the kind of villain I like. Madara has trauma but he goes chaotic with it and in the end he's just kind of having fun causing problems. Also his trauma is related to his clan, generational trauma, prejudice between clans, and village politics rather than a plot device of a character who wasn't into him like Obito.

Madara is also the rare Naruto character that has a lot of pathos to him that as usual Kishimoto doesn't take advantage of except for one scene that he then proceeds to ruin. Because as fun as Madara is as a villain I think he's also an extremely tragic character (not that I think Kishimoto doesn't realize that, just that he misses the point as per usual). I really would have loved a look into why in their little rivalry the Senju started having the advantage and Uchiha clan members were defecting. Obviously the fate of the Uchiha clan was not Madara's fault, but to me it feels like Madara's way of leading did not help matters. It seems logical that the reason the Uchiha clan started losing to the Senju clan was because of Madara and it is clear he is mentally unwell after Izuna dies so it could have something to do with that. Like Madara just isn't able to run his clan and by the time we get to the point where MADARA sees what is going to happen with Tobirama none of his clansmen have enough faith or trust in him to believe what he is saying.

I know I said there wasn't much I'd change with Madara, but the main problem I have I'm not sure how I'd fix it. Because I like Madara when he's around, but I don't really get his motivation. Based on the flashback he doesn't seem like the type to want to live forever to do some convoluted evil plan and ESPECIALLY not because he thinks the world is so terrible (but also rock that Kaguya's Will graffitied or whatever...that fucked up so much. Kishimoto probably doesn't even realize). I could only buy it if he was doing it for the drama of it all and because he thinks he's so much better than everyone else, but because he's particularly attached to the state of the world? Nah.

#character roundups #once again...feel like there was something else i wanted to say but its been like 3 days

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 9: NObito Uchiha

I don't want to belabor the point on Obito since I hate him and he has his own tag (in which I basically state the same thing over and over) for a reason so I'll make this short.

Obito as written and framed by Kishimoto: We all know how it is. Kishimoto wanted Obito to be a sympathetic villain but his motivations are paper thin and creepy AND his wrongs were to an extent that it is near impossible to make him sympathetic like being the indirect trigger to and taking part in the Uchiha genocide (which I'm not even sure Kishimoto realizes he did).

How it should have gone: Obito was never going to be a character I liked. He's just not the type of villain I respond to. But still I think at least recognizing that Obito did a lot of evil shit for no good reason would go a long way. If you even need to make him the main villain at all. I thought it was a bad idea when it was just a theory and I did when the reveal happened. Mostly because it takes all the emotional weight off Kakashi gaiden. I shouldn't have been surprised though of course Kishimoto didn't write an interlude to reflect on Kakashi's character, it was all to set up Obito because Kishimoto doesn't know how to write character moments, only plots.

#character roundups #i like a fun villain and obito was never going to be that

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 8: Fugaku and Mikoto Uchiha

Actually mostly Fugaku since I don't have much to say about Mikoto but would feel bad leaving her out.

Like a lot of characters, I don't think Kishimoto gives a shit about these two but they are kind of important when talking about Sasuke so I'm just going to talk about them in general rather than how Kishimoto frames them.

Mikoto is a side character and a woman in Naruto so she has no character and doesn't do anything, but she still managed to treat Sasuke the best out of all the characters. Tragic. At least she can recognize her son's mental state and encourage him (even if I lowkey still think she was lying about Fugaku talking about Sasuke).

Fugaku is apparently planning a coup, but the only lens we see him through is that of a father which he isn't great at. It made sense in the first flashback, but if you're going to drop that bomb Kishimoto you should probably spend a little more time with Fugaku during Obito's explanation or something.

I know there's some shit in the anime that covers Fugaku more and apparently the decision there was to make Fugaku hesitant about going through with the coup (I'm assuming because he thinks it's kind of evil and not the good reason not to do the coup which is just bad optics), but I will remind everyone again this is a manga only blog.

How it should have gone: Have Mikoto do something other than "be a mom" maybe. Like she knows about the coup, are we just going to ignore that?

Anyway, Fugaku. Similar to most Uchiha characters there's not much I'd change about Fugaku I just wish he was expanded on more. Fugaku is not great at being a dad. Okay, makes sense and I'm down with it, but how is he at leading a clan (especially considering the clan's plans) or how is he as a person? I don't have any ideas in particular, I just know I think it should have been covered. Of course I think he should be framed as somewhat sympathetic or at least not evil when it comes to being the leader of the Uchiha clan. He can be a shitty dad and still have a point. But that's probably why Kishimoto didn't cover anything about the coup other than saying it was planned because if he did then it would be more obvious that the Uchiha clan wasn't entirely wrong for wanting change. Like what do you think happened in those meetings? Everyone was like "yes, time for our evil take over Konoha plan".

#character roundups #sorry i'm just going to post this #bc i want to get these done even though i feel like i'm losing my mind rn #and this isn't even remotely what i wanted to write

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 7: Itachi Uchiha

Lord in heaven above it's time for a big one because I have a lot of fucking thoughts about Itachi.

Itachi as written and framed by Kishimoto: When Kishimoto decided Itachi's real backstory will always be one of the great mysteries of the world. On the one hand, I think Itachi retraumatizing Sasuke and putting him into a genjutsu after they meet for the first time since the massacre is over the line if Itachi was supposed to secretly care this whole time. On the other hand, Kishimoto has proven before he doesn't know where the line is with Naruto "I will break all of Sasuke's bones if he doesn't come back to Konoha with me" Uzumaki. And then there's the first full flashback where everything is, if I had to describe it in one word: suspicious. Like okay Itachi just wants to rise above his limits and the clan...or does he??? Is this really Itachi under pressure from his clan and Konoha and he ends up lashing out at the clan one time before he does the deed. You could read it either way. No hint there on when Kishimoto decided Itachi's ultimate backstory.

Speaking of confusion, how are we intended to view Itachi? Because Itachi himself says he messed up, but literally every other character talks about how great and smart he is. If we are supposed to think Itachi was a genius and did his best then it's kind of bad story-telling for reasons I will get into. If we are supposed to agree with Itachi that he fucked up then it's not very successful because so many characters say otherwise and it seems like a lot of the fandom also thinks otherwise.

There's a lot of confusion throughout Itachi's story because I'm pretty sure Kishimoto's intention changed during writing, but I'm pretty confident what we are meant to believe by the end. I'm sure people will disagree with me so I will explain after I say what I think we are ultimately pushed into thinking about Itachi. I think we are supposed to think of Itachi as someone noble and good who did his best and his only flaw was trying to do everything himself. Who Kishimoto thought would help Itachi in this situation I don't know. If that one line from Itachi about Sasuke being able to change the clan if he told him what was going is the answer then what the fuck Kishimoto how is a seven year old going to help here. But anyway I don't think Kishimoto wants us to think Itachi killing his clan was wrong and I don't think he wants us to think Konoha was wrong for pushing him into it. I also think no matter how hard it was on him Itachi still thought ultimately it was the Uchiha who should have changed to stop the massacre from happening rather than the other way around.

I think this because as I always have, and as I keep shouting to everyone to no avail, this is because Kishimoto clearly does not give a shit what happened to the Uchiha clan. The one person who cared, Sasuke, just stops caring after hearing Hashirama recount Romeo & Juliet and then he never talks about it again and it's just vaguely implied that Sasuke agrees with Itachi so he's over the whole dead parents and clan thing and now wants to change the world or something. If we were supposed to view Itachi as someone other than noble for what he did then there would be SOMETHING said about how it was wrong that the Uchiha clan is all dead but that doesn't happen. I know other people have their ideas about Itachi DID think what he did was wrong or he DID resent Konoha for making him kill his clan because of xyz. Of course anyone's headcanons are fine, but I'm just saying no one can say that as fact because if it was then at the very least there should be a hint somewhere in the narrative that we as readers should be sad that Itachi won't admit Konoha was wrong. Otherwise what's the point? Saying "Itachi did resent Konoha but he couldn't say it because he was under the protect Konoha genjutsu" only effects how the reader might feel about Itachi and serves nothing for the story since clearly the narrative doesn't care. Once again, it's fine to read it that way but you can't demand that every reader do the same because there's nothing to indicate that is how it should be read.

How it should have gone: I know about half or maybe even more of all Sasuke fans hate Itachi but let me be real. I think Itachi is a great character. I have some nitpicks but really overall the only thing I would change is I would take the fucking framing of Itachi and move it to the left. Because the problem with Itachi isn't the character, it's that Kishimoto missed the point.

The POINT of Itachi's character should have been: Itachi is a fuck up. Itachi spent his life getting called a genius, but whether it was something in his control or not nothing he did worked out for him. And it's really funny to me that Kishimoto flew right over that when he writes like he hates geniuses. There's Itachi sitting there with the whole problem with the idea of "a genius" right in front of him and Kishimoto doesn't take it. The problem being that being a genius at ninja-ing means being a genius at espionage and violence and strategy and not at a lot of other useful things like emotional intelligence or historical context.

I'm not going to complain that Itachi it overall shitty to Sasuke nor will I pretend he isn't. When I'm reading fiction I don't need characters to be good people or make good choices, I need them to make sense as a character. Itachi for me makes sense. You can deeply love someone, but be too traumatized and misguided to be any good at it or even know how to show love to another person. What I love about Itachi is that he was really shit at loving his brother which led to Sasuke going down the exact path Itachi desperately tried to get him not to go down. And it's through that failure that Itachi finally was able to give Sasuke the one thing he should have been giving him this entire time and what no one else will: unconditional love. I got no problems with that. The issue for me is that Konoha is never framed as wrong. If Itachi won't/can't admit it himself I think it would be a great idea to not frame Sasuke as being bad for saying what Konoha did was wrong. It would be a good way to develop Sasuke away from his hero-worship of Itachi. I don't have a problem that Sasuke is like that because it makes sense for his character, but I think it would be an interesting way to develop Sasuke's character. Sasuke could see that Itachi can't admit that what Konoha made him do was wrong and unnecessary and could be sad for Itachi as well as see that as a fault of Itachi's. Sasuke could come to see his brother as he was, a flawed man who made a lot of mistakes and didn't know everything (just like the narrative should see him). Which by the way I'm not necessarily saying Itachi is too stupid to realize Konoha was wrong, more like what if Itachi refuses to see that because it would be mentally and emotionally too devastating to confront the fact that he was completely in the wrong for killing his clan. I don't even think Itachi had a choice at that point since Danzo was threatening to come at Sasuke like he was a drunk Canadian and Sasuke was a baby seal, but I think psychologically Itachi's overwhelming guilt would override in his mind the fact that he had very limited options.

So yeah, Itachi. Very complicated character, but overall not much I would change that isn't framing. Itachi was always wrong and most decisions he had to make were out of his control but the decisions he did make were also bad.

#character roundups #i feel like i'm forgetting something but writing this really put me through the wringer

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 6: Team Hebi/Taka

Ah yes, the old "we need someone for Sasuke to bounce off of" gang.

Team Hebi/Taka as written and framed by Kishimoto: Kishimoto doesn't give a solitary shit about those three and he constantly either makes them jokes, expositors, or in the case of Karin uses her to make Sasuke seem evil when he's having a breakdown.

Bonus! Fandom interpretation: There are some fans, particularly Sasuke fans, that seem to think that this group is good friends or something. The one "friend" moment for that is really just an excuse to have Sasuke see Team 7 in them and after that is mental breakdown time. Of course that's not so say people can't like to think of that or imagine it, just don't tell me that they were ever close or anything. The thing is literally all of them were using each other to their own ends and I'm not saying friendship CAN'T come from that but in this case it did not.

How it should have gone: I'm going to do a little thing for each of them, but first and foremost. DON'T TURN YOUR CHARACTERS ONLY INTO JOKES! Treat them with some respect and care. Okay, let's do this.

Suigetsu: Besides being a character for Sasuke to bounce off of, Suigetsu is really only here to exposit on the swordsmen of the mist bless his heart. Also he is the only one of the four genuinely scared of Orochimaru so it makes me really sad that he ends of hanging out at Orochimaru's hideout with Juugo and Karin in the end. That's the number one thing I would get rid of, let the boy go home to the Mist Village or something. Other than that I'm not sure what to do with him. I agree that it works best for Sasuke to have someone to bounce off of before beating Itachi, but after that there is nothing for them to do so what DO you do with them? Especially Suigetsu who is there to just be kinda a dick as far as I can tell. Between the three of them he is the least attached to Sasuke. He's more trying to fuck around and find out.

Karin: Ughhhhhh Karin...I actually liked her more before this blog and by that I mean I found some stuff she did funny. Reading through this for a blog with a focus on Sasuke made me more uncomfortable with how forward she is towards Sasuke despite him not being into it. Yeah, Sakura is forward too but at least she wasn't physically like Karin. Also in my eternal pettiness it bothered me that through this blog I found a lot of people thought she and Sasuke were a good idea and/or they felt sorry for her. Not that it's wrong to feel that way just that I don't think that should effect anyone's opinion on Sasuke since Karin is SO disrespected by Kishimoto and the narrative. Honestly, the best thing I think to do with her is not have her being concerned that Sasuke is "evil" during the Kage Summit arc and if/when Sasuke stabs her she actually is over him instead of acting like she is when she isn't.

Juugo: Contrasting Karin, Juugo was never a character I cared about until doing this blog. He really has nothing going on and him reverting into a child for a bit was fucking stupid. But having thought about him for a bit he actually had a lot of potential. If you're going to say Juugo's...thing is actually sage jutsu related then I think that's good reason to say Juugo did not need to be locked up. He had to find peace within himself and within nature and Orochimaru was just screwing him over like he did everyone else. Then Juugo could start his own life somewhere instead of hanging out with Orochimaru forever which is apparently what everyone does after the epilogue. This would also get rid of Juugo's necessity for Kimimaro/Sasuke so at least from the Juugo > Sasuke end of the relationship that would make it easier to develop a friendship between them if you wanted any friendships between Team Hebi/Taka at all.

Well, the fact of the matter is Sasuke's story has nothing to do with them once Itachi and defeated so they just have to kind of wander aimlessly after that and they do. I'm not entirely sure what they would do after that whether I have any good ideas for them individually or not.

#character roundups

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 5: Orochimaru

I had planned to do one of these for Orochimaru since he does interact a lot with Sasuke and he is a Sasuke parallel, but thinking about it he didn't really fit the format I came up with at least not in an interesting way. So I was going to skip him, but really there's something I want to talk about in regards to Orochimaru. Let's call it...the Orochimaru Problem.

The problem with Orochimaru is he comes in as this scary big bad that even Kakashi is afraid of and then by the end he's, well, a joke. I suppose that's par for the course for some media, particularly ones that don't care about their characters, but what really bugs me here is that Sasuke did WAY WAYYYYY less bad things than Orochimaru. Orochimaru was out here experimenting on people, imprisoning people, kidnapping children, murdering people, attempting to start a war (not that Konoha didn't deserve it a little bit but the reason they did deserve it wasn't because they didn't make Orochimaru hokage). And I was fine with the scene of child Orochimaru and the snake when he died because one it was a nice character moment in Naruto and those rarely happen and I didn't feel like we were supposed to feel sad for him, just understand him better. But when Orochimaru gets back the narrative acts like he's a harmless weirdo despite all of the above and makes a joke about him wanting Sasuke's body still.

What gets me about that besides the fact that Konoha just lets him do whatever, is that Sasuke apparently still needs his ~redemption~ for being "bad"? Sasuke is ~lucky~ that Naruto was ~vouching~ for him or else they would have thrown him in jail??? Bitch, Orochimaru, child abuser, murderer, war mongerer, is right there are you guys aren't doing shit about it why does SASUKE need vouching for? For being mad that he's a genocide victim. And furthermore is really retroactively fucks with the narrative acting like Sasuke defecting to Orochimaru was this terrible thing. On every reread when everyone is saying how horrible it is that Sasuke went to Orochimaru the only thing I can think of is "well, you guys aren't going to be giving a shit what Orochimaru does in a few years so who cares." Defanging a villain is one thing, but acting like he's less bad than someone who actually had a point because the author just started pretending he wasn't that bad is bullshit.

#character roundups

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundsup Round 4: Kakashi Hatake

Kakashi’s relationship with Sasuke as written and framed by Kishimoto: Shock and awe, I have barely any notes on Kakashi and Sasuke's relationship pre-shippuden. My only note is my note for the entire series where literally all the characters and relationships needed more time to breathe instead of it being all plot all the time.

Kakashi is the cool, aloof and slightly mysterious teacher, I guess. He takes a liking to Sasuke because he sees himself in him and trains him more than his other students (lol), but I don't get the feeling we are supposed to view him negatively for it. When Sasuke leaves I always thought Kakashi was upset that he let Sasuke down and wasn't able to say anything to him that would help, but given future events I think Kakashi is supposed to be sad he didn't make it in time to force Sasuke back like that would have helped anything.

In shippuden Sasuke and Kakashi don't have much going on. As soon as they see each other again Kakashi repeats what he said to Sasuke the last time which just means Kakashi didn't learn anything. In fact Kakashi decides to learn something near the end of the war arc and even that is just "I shouldn't have given up on Sasuke. I should be like Naruto and bother Sasuke for all eternity instead of killing him." He also apparently doesn't realize he cares for any of his team until they are beating up Kaguya which is weird.

How is should have gone: My man Kakashi is damaged. He was given two of the most damaged kids in the village to train and he's shit at it. Don't know how much Kishimoto realizes he's shit at it but he is. I have absolutely no problem with Kakashi completely fucking up his conversation with Sasuke before he leaves. I have a problem with him saying everyone he cares about is dead because that's a blatant lie, but just him fucking up that interaction and being a dick about it is fine. Why should we expect emotionally damaged Kakashi to be any good with an emotionally damaged kid? Why should I expect him to get his head out of his ass long enough to realize he and Sasuke aren't the same? The problem is that Kakashi doesn't learn anything from it because hundreds of chapters later when they see each other again Kakashi just tells Sasuke the same thing, to give up on revenge. I don't know why Kishimoto didn't get the memo that when your character fucks up they are supposed to learn something from it (in most cases, I don't expect Kishimoto is trying to write the kind of story that doesn't do that).

I can understand having some initial writer panic when Sasuke and Kakashi meet again because if Kakashi now understands how he fucked up with Sasuke you can't have that tension. So I guess Kishimoto went with his first thought which is to have Kakashi say the exact same thing he already did. But I think this is where Kakashi knowing about Konoha killing the Uchiha clan comes in because Kakashi doesn't believe it. And if any part of him is suspicious then the Tool of the Village part of him kicks in and tells him Konoha probably was right for doing that. I think that would make for an even more interesting scene as Sasuke is swayed by Kakashi admitting he was wrong and then he fucks up again by saying Konoha was probably right or that he doesn't believe the story Madara (Obito) told them so Sasuke lashes out again. I mean, Sasuke relationship stuff aside, his unthinking loyalty to rules and the village is Kakashi's main problem and that should have been his character arc in shippuden, not fucking becoming hokage for Obito. And if Kishimoto wanted to have a moment of "I really love you guys" since his first thought about them was that he didn't like them then he should have shown it throughout the manga instead of just saying it at the end.

Kakashi character tangent: I feel like the Kakashi intermission was like "Kakashi's problem is he's too into rules because trauma, but then Obito died and now Kakashi realizes friends are more important than rules. But rules are still second most important so we still need to follow those." Which just leads to Kakashi to more self-hatred for not being able to save his teammates AND a stickler for rules which Kishimoto doesn't address. Instead at the end of Naruto Kakashi's problem is apparently having depression and a negative response to all his trauma. I know it fits Kishimoto's weird "ninja endure" end theme, but that's why I'm getting rid of that theme entirely. I think instead of Kakashi thinking about how he's such a loser he should be thinking how he never let himself get better and wallowed in his sadness despite the fact that there were people there for him (Gai) and people looking up to him (his team). Just like with his relationship with Sasuke, it's okay that Kakashi fucked up, I just want him to evolve and get better. Not this "I've been a loser, I should endure forever like Naruto" thing.

#character roundups

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 3: Sakura Haruno

Sakura's relationship with Sasuke as written and framed by Kishimoto: This one is a little harder to parse for me because honestly I don't think Kishimoto gives a shit about Sakura. She has an arc which is a step above Naruto, but it's the same arc like three times. Sakura says she's going to stop hanging back behind Naruto and Sasuke and the she if we're lucky she'll do that for a little bit and then go back to not doing anything. Kishimoto is suspiciously incompetent at writing women. But whatever, this is about Sakura in regards to Sasuke. Unsurprisingly, since Kishimoto very blatantly tells us ninja are people who endure, Sakura, being what this universe considers "good", continually chases after Sasuke despite him telling her not to which makes her "love" real and noble. That's basically all there is to it. The only bump I can think of is when Sakura decides that since she loves Sasuke and he is being "bad" she needs to kill him, but it's hard for me to tell what Kishimoto wanted us to get out of that. It seems like the manga is viewing her as good for that and it's an expression of her true love (creepy), but I find it hard to believe Kishimoto would want me to disagree with Naruto's abject refusal to make any type of decision that isn't a murder-suicide. And there doesn't seem to be any judgment made on Sakura for just being like "oh well, Naruto will have to handle this." Hm, I'm starting to think it's silly to try to find a point in anything Sakura does because Kishimoto just does whatever with her. Almost like he doesn't give a shit which is what I started this whole thing with.

How it should have gone: The manga should have framed Sakura's infatuation as just that, an infatuation and not love, and had her learn that going after someone when they'll explicitly been not interested is not appropriate or a good way to show you care about someone. I think it actually could have been interesting to have Sakura actually get to know Sasuke better and maybe she doesn't have a crush on him like she thought she did and just sees him as a friend. Also I adamantly refuse to theorize making any Sasuke pairing work and that especially includes the one that ended up canon.

That's basically all I have to say on Sakura because I'm not about to put more effort into this than Kishimoto did writing her entire character.

#character roundups

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 2: Naruto Uzumaki

Naruto's relationship with Sasuke as written and framed by Kishimoto: Naruto and Sasuke are the quintessential rival/best friend relationship (with all the problems inherent therein). Naruto's the loser, Sasuke is the cool one, Naruto wants to beat Sasuke, Sasuke gets an inferiority complex when Naruto starts getting actually good ("good"), etc. etc. When Sasuke starts to turn to "the dark side" and fights with Naruto, Naruto never gets a talking to like Sasuke does despite also wanting to fight Sasuke (or at least not one on screen) which says to me Naruto's behavior is considered okay by the narrative.

When it come to the first Valley of the End fight, Naruto's goal of getting Sasuke back is seen as noble and being a good friend (threatening to break someone's arms and legs is classic good friend behavior), but something is still missing considering Naruto fails. What Kishimoto thought Naruto was missing, strength or something ideological or a mix of both I'm not sure.

Naruto at the start of Shippuden is fully obsessed with Sasuke and determined to bring him back. I get the sense that Naruto is still supposed to be considered noble and a good friend for this, but somewhat misguided considering he fails to "rescue" Sasuke during their first meeting after two years. What Naruto is supposed to have learned I'm not sure, but Jiraiya dying and Konoha getting destroyed did it probably. Sure, he has a full panic attack because everyone wants to kill Sasuke, but that's just to show how nice and caring Naruto is (Sasuke is also having a full mental breakdown but he's evil for that). Also Naruto is once again told that he needs to make a decision and he refuses to do so and instead decides he and Sasuke are going to die together because that's normal friend behavior in this world.

Now Naruto barely had an arc to begin with, but after controlling the nine tails thing I really feel like we are supposed to think Naruto has it all figured out and he just has to win the war and get everyone to think like he does. And this includes caring about Sasuke so hard (and beating each other up) that Sasuke realizes he cared about Naruto too all along and they should stop fighting and bring the ninja world together and be friends forever. And as always Naruto was a noble and good friend to Sasuke this whole time, Sasuke just needed to see that.

How it should have gone: Well, first and foremost, before we even mention Sasuke, Naruto needed an arc. He was primed to have his own arc by the end of the Wave arc with him wanting to become a ninja on his own terms rather than being a tool for the village. Ironically it seems his own terms were being inflexible, refusing to make decision, yelling about his ninja way, and refusing to examine the problems and history of his village that he supposedly didn't want to be a tool of. Not only that, but Naruto understandably never learned how to interact with others and rather than that also being part of his journey, he only cares about others when he relates to them, he projects himself onto Sasuke rather than being a friend to him, and he refuses to respect Sasuke's very clear boundaries. And of course it would have helped if Naruto and Sasuke came off as actual friends instead of Kishimoto saying they are friends while they give off the vibe of "teammates, begrudgingly" and "way too into each other considering the amount of animosity between them".

Make Naruto and Sasuke actually friends and have Naruto learn how to act like a human are pretty straight forward so let's move on to the big one: giving Naruto an actual arc that incorporates Sasuke since Kishimoto wants his NS shit so bad. It's kinda funny actually how an arc for Naruto is just kind of sitting there as soon as Naruto says he wants to be a ninja his own way and Kishimoto ignores it in favor of not making Konoha look bad like this fucking village is worth preserving more than your main character.

I feel like the best way to go about a Naruto character arc would be his desire to have his own ninja way clashing with his desire to have the adulation and attention of the village. I'm fine with everything before shippuden, the only thing I would feel the need to change is once again Naruto and Sasuke being more convincing as friends and Naruto isn't framed as completely in the right and not also getting a talking to during their first and second fights. When shippuden hits though, especially after the Pain fight when Naruto gets the attention of the village like he always desired, I would start showing Naruto straying from his dream of not just being a tool of the village. We could add some stuff during that first Gaara arc that maybe hints at Naruto having problems with his role of being a ninja and a jinchuuriki and maybe some dissatisfaction with the village not being super committed to what's going on with Sasuke (since let's be real, those elders especially should be sweating with him gone) just to bring home the point that Naruto doesn't always agree with the workings of a ninja village, but he still wants their approval. Then dun dun! Naruto still basking in the love from the village hears that Sasuke kidnapped Killer Bee and the Cloud Village is on the warpath and Konoha (Danzo) was like go the fuck ahead (you know Danzo was like yes, please, god the last one) and Naruto is like well I don't want them to kill my friend I'll just go reason with the raikage and then I'll get Konoha to agree not to do anything to Sasuke. Shock and awe, the raikage is like nah and not only that some asshole shows up and says Konoha killed Sasuke's clan. This Naruto simply can't believe, but even if they did...wasn't it for the best? Surely, Konoha wouldn't do something that was objectively abhorrent. Thinking this when Naruto runs into Sasuke again who is fully having a breakdown Naruto tells him he will fight him for the village, betraying his own promise to himself to "save" Sasuke and becoming a tool of the village.

Honestly, after that I personally would have Naruto go train or whatever on the World Turtle but skip the dark Naruto and Kurama shit. Just make the tailed beasts chakra demons like we've been pretending they are, honestly I would have cut out any reference to them talking or having thoughts and kept it as an evil energy. We just got enough going on as is, maybe pay more attention to some side characters. Anyway, it's war time and Obito is being his usual worst self and Kabuto brought Madara back to be his queen self. Sasuke can show up with the "cavalry" after having his moment with Itachi and listening to Hashirama recount Romeo & Juliet, sure. But this time he's actually clear and says to Naruto "I'm not letting these fucks do whatever, but make no mistake when this is over it's revolution time even if I have to burn this shit to the ground." And wouldn't you know it they fight Obito and Madara and no goddess and her male-voiced will show up at the end. What would instead happen is through the fighting we (plus Naruto and Sasuke) see the clash of Madara's (and Obito's I guess, still fuck him though) trauma, Hashirama's dedication to his idea of the village leading to willful blindness to its problems, and Tobirama's deep-seated prejudice mixed with a militant dedication to the concept of The Village (that the Uchiha's aren't totally apart of oops how did that happen). This leads sorta Sasuke but mostly Naruto to be like wait Hashirama's idea for the Village was fundamentally flawed, it did nothing to stop generations long grudges from continuing nor did it do anything about the inherent trauma involved in being a ninja. I could practically see it now, Madara defeated and about to die and he's monologuing about how they are just tools for the village and it's just going to create more pain like he told Hashirama that first time and Sasuke's making a good Sasuke face filled with pathos and shit and Naruto's like "You're right" and everyone's like 😮 and Naruto can have a monologue like "what happened to you was wrong, what happened to Sasuke was wrong, and some of those things are from people being shitty and some are just short-sightedness, but either way we can burn it all down or we can confront the past and try to make something that will make the future better" and all the dead people that were brought back disappear finally and we either kill or arrest Obito idk once again fuck him.

Then we can have some jabber from the villages about "you hear those two elders got arrested?" and "I heard the Uchiha massacre was actually on orders from high up." or something while we take a look at what the characters are doing. And our final scene can be another one outside the village with Naruto and Sasuke and Naruto's like "I'm not going to say you should stay, I won't even ask. This isn't your problem to fix, it's this Village's and well mine if I'm going to be hokage like I've been saying I am, but even if you never come here again I hope I can still call you my friend." And Sasuke is like "I think I'm going to travel for a bit, see the world, see what the other villages are doing, but when I'm done I might still stop by. Just to make sure you're keeping your promise." "You mean the Uchiha monument?" "That of course, and that you've actually become hokage like you keep yammering on about." And Naruto is surprised at first but he smiles and Sasuke smirks and he's not going to say out loud that Naruto is his friend (at least not now) but things are looking bright and holy god this was cheesy but I already wrote it and I've spent two days on this so fuck it. Post.

#character roundups #i lot of i feel and i think in this one bc idk what kishimoto was fucking going for #i regret this character roundup thing so much #i hate using my brain #and being thoughful #i just want to use pop culture references and humor to deflect from the fact that i think i'm a dumb bitch #anyway if there's some problems in my plot summary there just ignore it its the second draft of my and my brothers first idea #what more do you want from me #and yet its still better than what kishimoto wrote hmmm

[justice4sasuke]

Character Roundups Round 1: Sasuke Uchiha

So, now that we are done with Sasuke's story, what I would like to do is talk about the characters relevant to Sasuke's story on the whole. Specifically (because it's always about framing around here) the message I got from Kishimoto when reading the series and how I think the characters would have been more effectively written and/or framed. For main characters with a lot more going on I'll talk mostly about their relationship to Sasuke rather than their entire character. First up is of course the boy himself, Sasuke Uchiha.

How Sasuke is written and framed by Kishimoto: Sasuke was conceptualized as a rival to Naruto, the cool, smart and popular kid to Naruto's failing, attention-starved outcast. There were hints that there was something more going on with him, but who's to say if it was always as in-depth as it ended up being. Sasuke's story outgrew just being a foil to Naruto so much it basically ate Naruto's character and turned his motivation into being completely about Sasuke for the first part of Shippuden. And Kishimoto decided to fix that by forcing Sasuke's character which, once again, had outgrown Naruto to be about being a foil to Naruto again.

Sasuke's is emphasized as the cool, popular kid, the de facto leader of Team 7 when Kakashi isn't around, with hints of a dark and traumatic past. Of course when it comes time to learn about Sasuke's past, what starts being emphasized is that Sasuke was not the genius that his brother was and that he was vying for the attention of his father because Kishimoto can only conceptualize characters being relatable if they aren't "the smart one" for some reason.

After his retraumatizing by Itachi, Kishimoto frames Sasuke's change as a change to the "dark side". Kishimoto had set up the Curse Mark from Orochimaru as the threat for Sasuke "turning" but it truly has more impact on Sasuke's physical well being than mentally or emotionally until the meeting with Itachi happens. After that, he is shown as arrogant and the instigator in his squabbles with Naruto. He gets a talking to multiple times by Kakashi while Naruto gets none despite gladly taking part in their fight. Kishimoto downplays Sasuke's trauma by having Kakashi insinuate he has felt the same pain as Sasuke and therefore Sasuke should not be having any problems and his flashing out is not valid. Sasuke is portrayed very explicitly as villainous for the first part of the Valley of the End fight. Kishimoto gives Sasuke a little more sympathy after his backstory is fully explored, but ultimately Sasuke is framed as someone who is "misguided" and not as someone with full knowledge of what they are doing.

Early Shippuden Sasuke is very much just a shiny object the characters are fighting over until he finally appears again and even so the Sasuke we get leading up to the Itachi fight doesn't seem to have many thoughts or feelings about anything that isn't his goal. It is notable though that Kishimoto makes a point to tell us not to view Sasuke as "evil" since he doesn't kill anyone he spars with and doesn't plan on killing anyone except Orochimaru and Itachi.

After killing Itachi and being confronted with the fact that his family was actually killed by a government sanctioned genocide, we get one nice scene of Sasuke crying followed by Kishimoto doing everything in his power to make us view Sasuke as "evil" and that he has finally fallen from working with established bad guys the Akatsuki to basically every character telling us Sasuke is being evil.

The reunion with Itachi and their fight with Kabuto feels like it should be Sasuke's character self-actualizing and while there are some good moments of Sasuke confronting Itachi and asserting himself, the comments Itachi makes about Sasuke being malleable to outside influence and the fact that it ends with Sasuke going on a knowldge quest makes me feel like Kishimoto wants us to think Sasuke has a whole worldview to sort out rather than him mostly knowing what he wants at this point.

This is further evidenced by the fact that apparently hearing what the previous hokages had to say gets Sasuke to figure out his new worldview and we do a fake-out of Sasuke being "good" and wanting to be "hokage" just to make him look "evil" throughout the war and then rolling out his revolution plan when they win.

And let's be real the revolution plan is just "Sasuke has gone down the evil route and is being difficult so Naruto has to beat it out of him". Naruto himself explicitly says that and if you don't want to believe him then believe it based on the fact that there is no one in or out of universe saying that Naruto beating his "friend" into submission was wrong or a bad solution. As for Sasuke's plan, it no longer has anything to do with the Uchiha clan, they are no longer mentioned, apparently Sasuke didn't learn anything from his entire final interaction with Itachi, and now Sasuke wants to be hokage to the entire world and live forever. Of course, Sasuke is just a silly, hurt child and needs Naruto's love beaten into him until he realizes people cared about him so he shouldn't care about what happened in the past. Also Naruto is a really nice guy and all the villages that hate each other will get along now. So Sasuke may have to go on a redemption walk forever, but he'll marry Sakura and have a kid and be Naruto's best friend and isn't that a nice, happy ending.

How it should have gone: I actually think most characters in Naruto need very little changed. What actually needs to be changed is the framing. And that is true for Sasuke. He's pretty much set until the end.

If we are coming at the manga from Naruto's perspective, setting him up as the cool, popular kid is fine. But as soon as we learn about Sasuke as a character I don't think that should be the focus and Naruto should definitely have learned that being the cool, popular kid is not how Sasuke sees himself so he should stop talking about that whenever they meet if Sasuke is indeed his best friend. But more than that I think instead of focusing on Sasuke has someone ~seduced by the power Orochimaru offered~ or ~ungrateful for his friends~ it should have been framed as Sasuke being someone newly retraumatized, very hurt, and felt like he was out of options because no one was supporting him. That framing doesn't even necessarily have to come at the time things happen, but at least in retrospect someone could have realized they fucked up in how they were interacting with Sasuke.

The biggest thing for me though would be after Sasuke learns the truth, stop pretending like he's super evil and "in the darkness" and just say he's having a mental breakdown. That's what it looks like and the only thing that makes me know that's not Kishimoto's angle is because everyone keeps saying Sasuke is evil and we never reevaluate his behavior again after this. Hell, Kakashi and Naruto know what Sasuke knows and Naruto's still thinking they should probably just fight each other to the death to solve this and never have an updated opinion on that ever.

Lastly, I feel there are two possible options that would have made sense writing-wise, I think one is a good idea and one is bad, but I wouldn't have critiqued the story telling if either of these were used. But they weren't and instead we had Sasuke's character just stop making sense so we could have Sasuke be in the wrong and have a big end fight with Naruto. Option one (the bad option) is to have Sasuke, after hearing the hokages' stories, agree that his clan should have been wiped out for the good of Konoha and fight in the war, not having a fight with Naruto at the end because they are in agreement that ultimately sacrificing an entire clan for a village is the best decision. Option two (the good one) is Sasuke goes to fight in the war but once they deal with this Kaguya bullshit Sasuke once again wants his revolution. This time though Sasuke is upset about something that is congruous with what actually happened to him, his whole family being killed by his brother who was manipulated and threatened by village leaders, while also incorporating what he learned from the hokages. Maybe something about how people with power and money are the ones hiring ninjas leading to generations long animosity between clans and villages causing one to eventually stamp out the other for "the good of the village/our continued existence/whatever" (good time to call back to the time Suna wanted to destroy Konoha because their daimyo was using Konoha ninja because they were cheaper) and also maybe he's also just mad that the government killed his family and his brother was disgraced and no one knows about it. That means Kishimoto would have to just admit Konoha was wrong for that, and if there's a fight with him and Naruto then Naruto would look bad. But there doesn't even have to be a fight at all perhaps Kishimoto could actually give Naruto an arc instead and they team up to change the ninja world. Wild idea I know.

The main point I want to get across about Sasuke is what this whole blog has been about. Sasuke should have been treated sympathetically and someone who was very hurt, very troubled, and didn't always do the right thing but at least he wanted the right thing, not as someone bad or a "sulking friend who needed to be punched to snap him out of it".

#character roundups #justice4sasuke #speaking of naruto he's next #i'll go more into how i think the manga should have ended there #even though i'm just reiterating my first naruto rewrite post