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starguardianniom · 9 months

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The emotional immaturity of Adrien and Marinette

This need to be said.

You cannot tell me Adrien lacks the emotional maturity to handle his father being the villain he fights for 5 seasons, his assistant helping him, and his mom being alive in a coma in the basement and tell me he can't handle it. Who the hell would?

And yet, he still should have been there for the final battle, because after spending 5 seasons trying to break free from his caged life that Gabriel threw him in, he deserves to have a final face off with the man and see the reality of the situation, while also denouncing everything his father fought for by saying he was wrong, and he's gonna fight to end his madness.

Somehow, Marinette gets to be in the final battle alone with 2 miraculouses against her boyfriend's father who's the antagonist, and at the end when he wins, she complies with his last request to not say anything to Adrien.

How the hell is that her handling it in any kind of mature way possible, or saying she didn't have her emotions messing with her judgement here?

Cause I'm sorry, but past seasons proved time and time again that Marinette is just as emotionally immature as Adrien, if not more, when it comes to world shattering stuff thrown her way.

Starting with her being very immature emotionally whenever it concerns Adrien.

We saw her screwing up in 3 seasons finales because of her feelings for Adrien having a factor in it.

In season 1 Volpina, she impulsively humiliated Lila in front of Adrien to not only call her out on her lies, but also to get her away from Adrien, after spending a lot of time following them around because she was jealous, before Tikki noticed the Book.

Season 3 in Heart Hunter, her being heartbroken over letting Adrien and Kagami be together and then later seeing them together as Ladybug mess with her feelings and she choose to get Kagami away from Adrien instead of finding Chloé who told her she was ready to fight, and honestly there's no way she chose Kagami purely for selfless reasons 100%, she was still affected by her feelings of being crushed, and when choosing which miraculous she should take, she was clearly debating either to choose Chloé who was already aware of the situation and it was her parents, or choose Kagami who was having a romantic moment with Adrien. Do not tell me she was completely focused when she had been distracted earlier as Ladybug at seeing Adrigami in display, she freaking crashed into a tree when seeing it.

Season 4 Strike Back showed her, after spending the last episode being driven impulsive by Risk, which she became aware of in the end, she decided to go fetch "Adrien" to pull off her plan, despite having much easier options to go as. Not to mention her Lucky Charm saying she had to go in the past, knowing the entire city was affected, yet somehow Adrien wasn't, yet it didn't tip her off that maybe if Adrien wasn't affected it was because he wasn't there the day before, and thus couldn't have been Adrien, but maybe his cousin, since she knows he pulled a twin switch once with him. She could have fetch Sabrina who was already familiar with the Dog Miraculous, heck better yet, she could have just unified her miraculous with the Rabbit and the Dog without having the Horse, and do the travel herself, if she use the beyond broken Rabbit miraculous, then she can freaking use the Dog, but she decided Adrien was trustworthy. She even questionned herself if the idea made her reckless. But since she can't shake her crush is perfect, she stood to her initial plan, and got completely fooled by him which gave Gabriel all the miraculouses but hers, Chat Noir's and the Peacock. She thought with her heart, not her brain there.

It's not the first time she does it either.

When it comes to Adrien, or perfect guys, Marinette becomes one of the least emotionally mature people on the show.

We saw how in Desperada, her knowing Aspik was Adrien couldn't make her focus at all.

In Kuro Neko, having a new partner, which was basically Adrien's model routine up to the max, she couldn't concentrate at all on the mission, let alone KNOW HOW TO USE HER FREAKING LUCKY CHARM.

And now Marinette herself when it doesn't have anything to do with being Ladybug, just being Marinette, or it being about Adrien in any way.

Marinette is a girl who is insecure, nervous and prone to self-spirals to the simplest mistakes, and goes above and beyond to try to either salvage the situation, or try to cover it up with others being none the wiser if she wants to and plays her cards right.

She will go to extreme answers to basic problems, which usually cause more trouble for herself in the long run.

She is extremely reckless in that aspect and doesn't think things through completely like she thinks she is doing.

Mostly because she has an immature response to anything that could cause her any embarassment or having to confront a though situation she doesn't want to deal with or just hope it goes away on its own.

Accidently leaving an embarassing message on Adrien's phone?

Break into his locker, steal his phone, learn his password and delete it, instead of maybe explaining herself calmly.

Accidently erasing a video of Ladybug on Alya's phone? Steal the phone, lie to her bestie, try to redo the video so she won't notice, being afraid she'll break her friendship with her if she finds out, not thinking Alya might have posted it on her blog before showing it to her.

Juleka needs to be in the class photo? Go steal the memory card of the photographer and erase the previous photo so he'll need to take another one instead of just asking to redo it, because she is sure he won't want to.

She didn't do anything grand like her classmates for Heroes Day? Lie about what she actually plans to the entire class and get caught up in her plan when she can't pull it off, despite Alya defending her earlier, her parents and Tikki telling her she needs to come clean, and her classmates, sans Chloé, not being bothered by it, probably understanding that she was very busy and did what she could on a short notice.

Adrien is at a movie premiere with Kagami? Team up with Chloé to humiliate Kagami so she'll be seated next to Adrien and prevent him and Kagami from leaving Japan, instead of trying to stop her bully from 4 years from pulling a cruel prank, a bit similar to what she went through the year prior, being humiliated publically in front of a guy she liked.

Can't give Adrien a gift at his house? Abuse her powers to transform and break into his room to deliver his gift, instead of waiting at the front gates until he arrives like a normal person.

The guys having a boys only party at Adrien's house? She needs to ditch her friends to go to that party, and pass herself as a boy to join, instead of just letting them be, because how dare they have a guy only party the one time they all group together, not like she only hangs out with her girl friends all the time without any guys.

Doesn't know why her grand-father is estranged from her dad? Pretend to be someone else, and lie to him, instead of coming clean from the start.

Learned Kagami and Adrien broke up? Push Kagami to try to make her fall in love with him again and ignores everything Kagami tells her, at one point literally lifting her to get her to talk to him, projecting her feelings on Kagami the entire episode, instead of listening to Kagami and trying to learn what happened.

Ghosted Kagami by ignoring her calls because she didn't want her to be disappointed in her not being able to tell Adrien "I love you" despite dating him at that time.

She doesn't want to see Luka because she's afraid to break his heart again and get him akumatized? Ask his twin to tell him to not come to HIS OWN BIRTHDAY PARTY BECAUSE SHE'S TOO MUCH OF A COWARD TO FACE HIM! Not to mention not listening to Alya telling her she exaggerate and that Luka would like to see her again, as unlike her, Alya has been talking to Luka and knows he would prefer to stay friends with Marinette even if he still has feelings for her, cause Luka is that mature.

Su-Han wants to know Chat Noir's identity for safety reasons in case anything happens to him? Why, lie to Chat Noir about wanting to knows each other's identities, have 2 people knowing his without his consent, then erase the deed so neither he or she will remember it, her thinking Chat Noir will never reveal himself to anyone but her, without her ever bothering to talk to him and explaining the reasons, which given how much more understanding he is than her most of the time, he would get it and would do so without complains, but nope she goes behind his back and immediatly thinks she knows him better.

Learns Adrien is sended to Shangai without her knowing? Welp, time to lie to her parents about wanting to connect to her maternal origins from China and wanting to go there to know her roots, making them pay for what was supposed to be a family trip that they had planned since she was born, just to go stalk her crush whom she basically sees everyday in class in another country, just because she was miffed that she didn't know about it, despite boasting how she knew everything about him and she would know if he was going.

Those are the many emotionally immature actions that she made throughout the show, and you tell me Adrien isn't emotionally mature enough for the final fight in the finale of season 5?

Fuck you, the main protagonist is even more emotionally immature than he'll ever be with all the crap she pulled.

The creators even said Marinette has a very poor control of her emotions. Even as Ladybug she's not immune.

Adrien is probably more mature than her because of all the mental strenght he builded up just to keep up with his life before getting a miraculous.

Marinette is just a normal kid who kids herself, she is very clever and intelligent, but in the emotional maturity department, she is one of the worse, out there with Chloé, Lila and Gabriel.

Any minor problems she faces she tends to go to extreme lenghts to solve, despite many people telling her time and time again that she's really thinking way too much about it. Namely Tikki and Alya.

Her first responses are most of the time, lie, manipulate, steal, in the hopes she can undo her mistake before someone sees it, or to save face and prevent herself from being embarassed. Heck, a lot of the time, it doesn't have anything to do with being Ladybug, she just want to save face.

Honesty isn't her first answer a lot of the time.

Not being honest about making mistakes and just trying to avoid them by lying or fixing them before someone sees them is emotionally immature on her part.

Because she's a stupid 14 years old teen who does a lot of stupid 14 years old stuff.

Like Adrien is a 14 eyears old teen who also does a lot of stupid 14 years old stuff, mostly as Chat Noir, Adrien, a bit less, but sometimes too.

So to hell with Adrien not being emotionally mature to handle his dad being a villain and all that, Marinette is just as worse.

The fact she lies to him at the end about it all proves it.

She is not emotionally mature about him, she has never shaded her rose colored glasses that are glued to her face when it comes to him.

To her, Adrien is the perfect boy who needs protection from anyone and anything that could harm him or cause him grief.

She sees him more as an idol than a real person. Even when he confess his insecurities to her, she's more concerned about his safety rather than trying to learn more about why he feels that way and connect to him more than just drooling over him like the hardstuck fangirl that she is when around him.

She sniffed his pillow. Pulled hair and kissed what she thought was a statue of him. Stalked him to another country. Humiliated 2 girls who were interested in him. Makes tons of complicated schemes to woo a guy she can barely talk to because she was traumatized before by a prank and the lesson she learned from it was to learn everything about the next guy just to be sure she wouldn't be caught again, instead of just listening to her friend's advice, taking it to an extreme form of creepy.

Again, not the picture of emotional maturity here much. So do not ever tell me that Adrien is not mature enough to be able to take emotionally the bad news.

If Marinette's response to the bad news was to lie to the entire city about the villain and make him a hero instead, and lie to her partner, and boyfriend, because she listened to Gabriel's last wish, then seriously, it outright says in blinding lights neon that she was not emotionally mature for it either.

Especially since the villain was her boyfriend's dad, and we all know how she acts when it's about her beloved.

She didn't have to change her views on Adrien, never did, for that she would have needed to treat him like a person instead of an angel gracing the earth.

The shrine she saw him from was so high up in the sky she never saw what was really happening with him, even when told, she just went back to drooling over him as if nothing happened.

#ml season 5 spoilers #miraculous ladybug #ml s5 spoilers #adrien agreste #marinette dupain cheng #gabriel agreste #marinette salt #ml salt #miraculous salt #ml s5 leaks #ml season 5 leaks #sorry to say this but marinette is the emotionally immature one between her and adrien #by a large margin #seriously #i am almost not surprised that she does that #she never got character development for her adrien problem #adrien confessing to her instead of her doing it kind of robbed her of any progress she could have done in that regard

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tenebraevesper · 2 years

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Me, as a Ladybug PV fan, observing the current chaos the MLB Fandom is going through due to the leaks:

“Sucks to be them...”

#Ten's Thoughts #miraculous ladybug #ml leaks #ml season 5 leaks #ladybug pv #bridgette cheng #felix agreste #ladybug #chat noir #miraculous ladybug pv #ml spoilers #ml salt #ml writers salt #I'm just glad the PV Universe is its own little corner.

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howhow326 · 1 year

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There's no option for "a badly written character" because lila is always going to ne that lmao.

#miraculous ladybug salt #ml salt #ml writers salt #thomas astruc salt #lila salt #ml leaks #ml leak #ml season 5 leaks #ml spoilers #ml season 5 spoilers

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trashart00 · 1 year

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Miraculous Ladybug Season 5 in one picture:

#miraculous #tales of ladybug and cat noir #ml season 5 spoilers #ml season 5 #ml season 5 leaks #miraculous leaks #miraculous ladybug

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ezhuthalar · 10 months

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I don't check miraculous on tumblr for one day and its suddenly on trending, the finale of the gabriel agreste arc that was exactly the opposite of what the fans wanted and fans arguing about it, there's an official alternate universe with evil ladybug who looks hot, Lila actually wins holy heck, gabriel dies (good riddance) and tikki and plagg actually looks like gods :0

I could have never asked for a better start to ladynoir July, because the content gave us so many prompt fics for ladynoir situations-

#ladynoir july #miraculous #miraculous ladybug #ml spoilers #ml season 5 leaks #ml season 5 finale #ml season 5 spoilers

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vennyvenadito · 10 months

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As someone who saw the leaks on twitter and now seeing a lot of people exited for the finale it really hurt me

From one hand I don’t want to tell anything about how this would end because I don’t really wish to ruin the hype

From the other hand I would be sad how disappointed they would be

I may hate what the show has become and I may salt a lot but the last thing I would want to do is ruins someone’s experience with the series

And from my third invisible hand, what is with this show getting rid of characters I love!?

First was Alix, then was Luka, next was Chloe

And now my baby girl, meow meow loser Gabriel!!??

Love him, hate him, you can’t denial the show wouldn’t be same without him

At least I still have Juleka, Harry the clown, Nathaniel, Marc, Plagg and Adrien

For now

#miraculous ladybug #mlb fandom #mlb season five #mlb salt #ml leaks #ml season 5 leaks

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blueberry-macaron · 2 years

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reading the ml bible again and it literally says LB hates it when CN is hitting on her

Like that's a canon fact

All those "she secretly enjoys it" takes were bs

#ml salt #adrien salt #love square salt #idk man like how do you come with adynamic like this and say #yep this is true love #ml leaks #ml season 5 leaks

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nothingtherefornow · 1 year

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Honestly, the fact that people to get so offended over the idea of Chloe and Lila being worse than Gabriel. Kind of makes me roll my eyes ar people screeching about the misogny of two teenage girls being called evil.

Both Chloe and Lila have both have been shown to knowingly willingly try to take advantage of the fact that Gabriel is an abuser to use for their benefits…

The reason I honestly agree with the assessment that they are both worse than Gabriel comes down to one simple thing. If you took away the miraculous from Gabriel, he probably wouldn’t have the guts to do literally any of the stuff that he does. All his confidence and all his power to do what he does come from the fact that he has that magical brooch.

Chloe and Lila have both been shown to not need a miraculous to want to do evil things to people. It is it so shocking to people the idea that teenage girls can be pretty awful coming from a girl who was frequently bullied by other teenage girls yeah teens can be awful to each other.

Portraying something in fiction doesn’t equate to condoning/normalizing behavior.

I adore this analysis of yours ^^ ! Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts :) Even if I'm a girl myself I was a little bothered that fans felt so ofended over the idea that Lila and Chloé could be worse than Gabriel. But for me it was kinda logic that they would be worse than him, because they are supposed to be the next Big baddies once Monarch is out of the picture. And Ladybug and Chat Noir became strong enough that the ml writters will have to put them against crazier villains in order to rise up the stakes

I had never thought of the kind of person Gabriel would be without the butterfly miraculous, but I think we had a glimpse of it in the episode Queen Wasp where he was ready to stop everything for Adrien's sake (and he even complimented Marinette, while in this season 5 she seems to be the second person he despises the most after Ladybug T_T). It is also the period when Gabriel had not yet developed the habit of controlling Adrien with his amok. Gabriel had not been totally corrupted by power yet in this episode, while for season 5 there is no doubt that he has descended into madness and took a liking to evil, but it was a slow descent into hell, he got worse every season, and his abusive, toxic and obsessive behavior also escalated.

Chloé and Lila on the other hand ... They're different. Of course there was a period when Chloé softened between season 2 and season 3, but the Derision episode will show us how bad she really was, and unfortunatelly became once again. This episode will also reveal how much Chloé has a very twisted and wicked view of how the world works.

And Lila is no better, if not worse. I still get goosebumps thinking back to this scene when she's cutting Marinette's face from a bunch of photos she took from a distance either by herself or by paying somoene to do it, declaring loud and clear "soon you'll have no one and nothing left Marinette". My only though after this scene was : PSYCHOPATH !

And I don't know if you've read the bible, but (SPOILER WARNING FOR THIS PARAGRAPH !) the fact that Lila can go as far as managing 3 false identities at the same time just to get attention and popularity is kinda messed up. Also her intelligence level must be as good as Felix's if she can pull something like that so easilly (also it probably helps her that most ml character are guillible dummies ^^')

And let's not forget that Chloé and Lila willingly got themselves akumatized at one point just because they were offended. They are willing to wreck havoc for the most pettiest reasons of all.

And also, while during season 5 Gabriel is mostly motivated by his madness and hunger for power and control, his original purpose was still intriguing and understandable, to bring a loved one back to life.

Lila and Chloé on the other hands, what do they want, what are their motivations ? Simple : destroying the life of another teenager girl who barely did anything to them. They are only motivated by petty jealousy and the desire to hurt.

Because yeah Chloé always enjoyed hurting Marinette more than anyone else even before she became jealous of her, and Lila seems to have developped an hate-obsession toward Marinette even more intense than the hate she feels for Ladybug, and for what ? Just because Marinette called Lila out for her lies twice or thrice and is currently Adrien's girlfriend ? The boy both Lila and Chloé covet llike he's a thing to possess ?

When there is no rationality behind someone's motives, only madness remains. And crazy antagonists who take pleasure in making others miserable can sometimes be even more terrifying than rich powerfull business man obsessed with power.

There's no denying anymore that both Lila and Chloé are not only bad persons, but also a little deranged in their head. So what happens when you give wicked teenagers more power than they already have ? They become worse, because if they can get away with hurting even more people because that's something they enjoy, what's really stopping them ?

What the fans seem to ignore is that even at 14 years old, people can be pretty messed up in real life. It's much rarer than adults doing evil around them that's for sure, but it happens. I even remember a real case where two young girls below 12 years old murdered a 2 years old kid and an old lady just "for fun". And there's many others example with boys, some can even start committing rape when they're just 14. So why is it that hard to beleive that 14 years old girls have the potential to be more evil than an adult man when they grow up ?

Also can we really talk about misoginy when the main hero character who must face those two crazy girls is also a girl herself ? And when said girl is the protagnoist while her boy partner is the deuteragonist ?

Miraculous Ladybug seems to focus much more on the performances of its female characters like Kagami, Alya, Alix and Zoé for example. And then the star characters of the New York and Shanghai specials were also female. The series has probably chosen two female characters as the future antagonists who will be "worse" than the previous one, because they are characters that we have known since season 1 as rivals of the heroine, and who also evolved alongside the season, but towards the path of evil. After all, when the good becomes better, the bad must become worse.

But I think the detail that might show that fans are wrong to howl mysoginia is that somehow, Gabriel is the one who gave Chloe and Lila opportunities to become even worse. His akumatizations and plans involving Chloe and Lila can be seen as a way of corrupting the two young girls, their viciousness is something Gabriel has always indirectly encouraged for his plans. So is it so surprising then that the student would manage to surpass the master ?

For those who have read the bible, I seem to remember that the synopsis of an episode mentioned Chloe and Lila as "the best minions and allies of Monarch" So if Chloé and Lila became worse than Gabriel, it's because Gabriel himself influenced them.

#miraculous ladybug #ml season 5 #ml season 5 spoilers #ml season 5 leaks #ml analysis #chloé bourgeois #lila rossi #gabriel agreste #Sorry I know this is a very long post ^^'#But there's always so much to tell when this topic comes up #especially when I must use good arguments

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nangbaby · 10 months

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Now that the Season 5 finale has aired, those who have avoided the leaks but not the episodes themselves can now complain their hearts out.

But you know it's bad when Astruc and the writing team are trying to blatantly erase the idea that Emilie was revived when it was explicitly written in the locked script that she was back. The intention was for Emilie to be back, but when the fandom exploded into apoplectic flames, executive meddling stepped in and now everyone involved is doing damage control. They realized how badly they messed up and tried to slap a bandaid over one of the 10,000 plot holes they created.

#ml leaks #ml spoilers #ml season 5 spoilers #ml season 5 leaks #ml salt #ml s5 leaks #spoilers

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asrgdvf · 2 years

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The last thing you see before Lila Rossi disposes of your body, replaces you and gaslights your mother into thinking she was her daughter all along:

#still not over this sjskandnsns #lila rossi #ml bible leaks #ml season 5 leaks #ml leaks #miraculous ladybug

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starguardianniom · 8 months

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Adrien and Marinette screwing each other's character development

That's literally what happened in season 5.

5 seasons of Adrien trying his best to break free of his dad's abuse and control only for Marinette to honors Gabriel's wish and make him believe he was a hero and a good parent, despite having front seat at his abuse, on top of fighting him, and Gabriel made the both of time cry. So now Adrien will forever think his father was a good man, when he was not. He will like his abuser, when the last episode showing them together has Adrien showing nothing but hatred toward his father for thinking he knew better for him when he was just doing what he wanted Adrien to do and not what Adrien wanted himself.

We spent 5 seasons watching Marinette trying and failing to confess to Adrien, only for him to confess to her instead which rendered kind of all her efforts pointless, on top of not having to learn the many lessons that she should have, like regarding his private life, or start seeing him as a person and not a perfect angel who can't do no wrong. They even had some jokes at her behavior, behavior that they later learned was because she had a traumatic experience which made her decide that the next poor sod that would catch her attention would not be permitted to have a private life whatsoever, just because she made an error of judgement and didn't listen to her friend's warning, something she keeps doing repeatedly during the series. She just gets her boyfriend and never has to change her behavior, and he doesn't get to maybe get mad or creeped out at all the stuff she did for him while she could barely speak to him, let alone struggle to stay close less she ran away out of being scared to ask him out. So her toxic behavior also doesn't get to be toned down. Biggest example is after learning that Gabriel is Monarch, she goes to speak to him because she wants Adrien back, not to stop Monarch once in for all. She has to when he finds her in his house and she can't hide much longer.

The main difference, Marinette has been aware since forever that Gabriel was pretty controlling with Adrien and got depressed over it several times since it meant she couldn't hang out with him. And she still sided with his abuser because she didn't want Adrien to deal with the backlash of knowing his father was the local terrorist of the city. A guy she spent 5 season fighting, and spent the last episode of season 5 beating up because he prefered to go with his crazy scheme instead of respecting his wife's last wish. And she decides to respect Gabriel's last wish instead of being honest with Adrien and the rest of the city, which I'm sorry to say, is beyond horrible of her. People deserves the truth, so does Adrien, stop coodling him like his father tried, he doesn't need it.

Meanwhile Adrien just learned in the last season that she had a crush on him. And saw her doing some pretty weird stuff, but never truly saw the real depths as to how far Marinette was willing to go to get his love. He didn't see her bully Kagami, he didn't see her lie and manipulate her parents to make her follow him to Shangai and abandoning her uncle on his birthday just to go stalk him, among other stuff. So he isn't aware of the worst of Marinette, and half of it he thinks she's just weird because to him that's how she's always been, weird and quirky but still charming and cute somehow.

I kind of just realised that while reading other posts about those subjects and just saw that they both ruined each other's development, Adrien unintentionally and Marinette, intentionally.

EDIT: chocolatevoidpizza made me realize I was victim blaming Marinette for the cruel prank she went through in Derision via the line "just because she made an error of judgement and didn't listen to her friend's warning".

That is unfair on Marinette and I apologize for writing that and take it back.

I however won't delete it cause I need the reminder to not have a repeat of that and I need the lesson.

So thank you chocolatevoidpizza for opening my eyes and knocking sense back into me.

#ml season 5 spoilers #adrien agreste #miraculous ladybug #ml s5 spoilers #ml s5 leaks #marinette dupain cheng #gabriel agreste #ml leaks #ml season 5 leaks #ml bible spoilers #ml salt #marinette salt #gabriel agreste salt #gabriel salt

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