#rayssyscourse

[rayssyscourse]

i got one me n a sys friend argue heatedly abt all the time: should drinks like water n sodas be could or room temp

cold. I don't know why this is a question. why would you want them room temperature??? that defeats the whole point. that would make them lukewarm AND flat, which are the two things soda isn't supposed to be. at that point why are you even drinking soda instead of just water or juice????? /lh

side note: I love how after my tea post, like a third of my blog is chains discussing drinks. this is the REAL syscourse right here. send more drinkcourse, I drink this shit up (terrible pun intended)

#rayssyscourse #syscourse #syscourse hot takes

[bellaswancourse]

the fact that some endogenic/non-disordered systems start out their syscovery by appropriating traumagenic/disordered terminology is due to the invisibility of endogenic plurality in the public consciousness. it is not a malicious act. it is sometimes even a direct result of people saying it's impossible to be a system without a disorder.

if you know youre a system and everyone is telling you that the only possible way to be a system is to have DID/OSDD/etc, the logical conclusion to make is that you have one of those disorders.

then once you start talking about your experiences and people yell at you for spreading misinformation about DID/OSDD/etc, its like... well what do sysmeds expect? if you tell other systems that they have to be disordered or they arent real, obviously you are going to get some non-disordered systems who take your word for it and start thinking of their non-disordered experiences as disordered.

the "problem" of endogenic systems is a result of several things. mostly, it isnt the fault of sysmeds or annoyed traumagenic systems, it's due to the fact that most people dont know about any kind of plurality except DID, so a questioning plural is very unlikely to know anything else to google to find out more. in order to solve this, we need more visibility for endogenic and non-disordered plurality. we need education campaigns that inform people that plurality can be a debilitating disorder AND just the way someone is, and it depends on the person/system.

however, even though it isn't the only cause of the issue, sysmedicalism does contribute to the spread of misinformation about DID/OSDD/etc by denying the possibility of different kinds of systemhood.

imagine a world where instead of reacting to misinformation with fakeclaiming, people tell other systems to look into endogenic and healthy plurality

this is why alliance between traumagenic and endogenic systems is so important to me. we have to know about each other and accept each other so that we can redirect systems who would be happier in other spaces (this does not mean complete segregation; im a traumagenic system who is most happy in endogenic spaces)

(this post is transplanted from the replies of @rayssyscourse ; sorry for dropping an essay on an unrelated post)

#syscourse

[raysrambles]

new intro post!!

hi! call me Ray, my pronouns are he/they/xe/aer. I am a minor (don't be fucking weird) and I am gay and demisexual. I'm an agnostic atheist and practice witchcraft, and I am a polytherian and otherkin! :)

I am hyperfixated on warrior cats and wings of fire, and my other interests include music (mainly punk rock and psychedelic rock), drawing, writing, skating, psychology, quantum physics (yes, you read that right, I'm a nerd), and video games.

I am diagnosed with various disorders that I don't care to list but may post about. I am also the host of a medically recognized system of 6. We are traumagenic; syscourse opinions vary by alter but I (Ray, the main one posting here), will not put an origin-discourse label on us. I am open (and happy!) to talk syscourse, but please keep it on my sideblog @rayssyscourse.

I have a tendency to be very strongly opinionated, and am an argumentative and confrontational person. If that bothers you, just scroll past or block me. That being said, I will do my best to be open to criticism should I overstep a boundary or take something too far. I block liberally at my own discretion.

I don't have a DNI per se, with the exception of asking kink/nsfw/para (idc your stance on contact, I don't want sexual stuff on my feed) blogs not to interact--I'm a minor and it makes me uncomfortable. Besides that, I don't really care, but will block people if I feel like it for any reason. If it helps for your own DNI purposes, I am a leftist, I stand with Palestine (yes, I acknowledge Hamas is fucking horrible and do not support them. i care about innocent people who are dying, not the 'lesser of two evils'), anti radqueer/transid, syscourse unlabeled but pro conversation/debate, anti fakeclaiming, anti proshipping (idc what you do in private but think it's harmful when publicized), and anti anti recovery.

feel free to reach out for any reason, I'm always open to discussion and making new friends. hope to see you around!! <3

[rayssyscourse]

ironically unironically want drinkcourse to be a thing. like syscourse has been a mess recently, let's wash that shit down and cleanse our pallettes by turning syscourse into drinkcourse for a bit before we jump back in

ps. i'm so (kinda) (not) sorry for the terrible puns. I typed them and Moon won't let me delete them because they think it's hilarious. I'll do a YouTuber apology if I need to

#jk jk... unless? #syscourse #rayssyscourse #drinkcourse

[rayssyscourse]

Any endogenic system who is truly endogenic and not a traumagenic system in denial doesn't need persecutors or protectors and shouldn't use those terms

Makes sense. That's all I have to say about this one. It makes sense.

#syscourse #rayssyscourse #system #plural #plurality #endo critical #traumagenic #anti fakeclaiming #syscourse hot takes

[rayssyscourse]

very important syscourse question

what's you guys' favorite kind of tea?? personally I recently got this vanilla tea that I've been mixing with mint leaves from my garden and it tastes amazing (with the added bonus of making me feel very fancy and aesthetic).

if you don't like tea, just tell me your favorite drink or what color the sky is for you right now or something in your head that you haven't gotten the chance to scream into the void about yet

#rayssyscourse #syscourse #syscourse hot takes #system #plural #plurality #traumagenic #endogenic

[rayssyscourse]

endogenic doesnt mean that someone is not disordered from having a system, it just means that their system didnt form from trauma. in the same vein, traumagenic doesnt mean that a system is disordered, only that their system formed from trauma. endogenic systems can be diagnosed with osdd and did.

im tired of seeing posts about a disorder i have that people dont want me to interact with because of the -genic label i choose to use. the -genic label i chose to use, mind you, because people wouldnt stop taking posts i made about being disordered and adding anti endo tags to them.

honestly i think -genic labels are silly anyways. they tell you zero information about a system past how they formed, which in the grand scheme of things is much less important than how that system might be functioning now.

I think I get where you're coming from. My main question is, how would an endo system get diagnosed with did/osdd? cuz the definitions of those is having a system formed from trauma, so how could you have one of them and still be endogenic? (genuine question, I'm not trying to attack you, just confused)

anyways, I think you have a good point that -genic labels are too broad and don't tell you very much about the system itself. however, I do still think it's fair for people to want traumagenic only or endo only spaces. the -genic labels have a lot of issues, yes, but they do hold *some* meaning.

#syscourse #rayssyscourse #system #plural #plurality #endo critical #traumagenic #anti fakeclaiming #syscourse hot takes

[rayssyscourse]

Hot syscourse take: most people misinterpret what a theory is in psychology, and don't really understand the ways in which psychology is often disconnected from neurology. In that, brain scans can show us that brains operate differently after trauma, but that doesn't prove the mechanics of structural dissociation in a developing brain.

Also, a lot of people treat the ToSD as settled science when it is still being debated by psychologists who disagree with various bits of the theory; it isn't a universally accepted thing, and I think a lot of people would benefit from wading into the academic slapfights about this. It's very enlightening. Not that you won't still come away thinking the ToSD is correct, but it becomes more obvious that it isn't the theory of gravity or evolution.

Yeah, this makes sense. Nothing in psychology (or anything, for that matter) is black and white.

#syscourse #rayssyscourse

[rayssyscourse]

guys my tea post was like 90% because I just wanted drink recommendations and to hear about random shit but also 10% because I think it's nice to remind everyone that everyone behind syscourse is like, actual people, actual systems, with lives and hobbies and thoughts and stuff. yes this is a pep talk about morality from an internet stranger. get humanized, motherfuckers

#rayssyscourse #syscourse

[rayssyscourse]

public service announcement!

wanna know what? I'm rejecting origin-discourse labels now. I am actually surprised at just how juvenile and petty you ALL are.

i refuse to align myself with anybody of any label who thinks doxxing people, sending death threats, hounding and harassing people, or anything else like that is in any capacity acceptable or justifiable. those are not valiant efforts to defend your truth and justice, those are crimes. doxxing is a crime. death threats are a crime. why do I have to specify that I do not support violent/malicious crime?

you are not middle schoolers. I should not have to remind you of this.

normally I'm all for different opinions, but if your "opinion" is that you should get to behave like an uncivilized three-year-old because someone on the internet made a post you didn't like... that's not an opinion, that's a one-way ticket to the alt-right. I'm sure you'll be very popular over there, and we'll be glad to see you off!

so yeah. in light of all the chaos unfolding in the syscourse tag recently, I'm dropping the 'endo critical' label entirely. I'll still have all my same outlooks and perspectives and discussions, but I'm so over origin discourse labels, lol. please feel free to keep talking to me about origins and origin discourse!! i just don't want to be put under any of those labels anymore.

behind every label, there is a person with their own perspectives and beliefs. and if labels are really SO important to you that you're ready to head off to war (and crimes! doxxing is a crime! death threats are a crime! shocker, I know!) over them... the problem isn't the labels, the problem is you.

#sorry this post is so cynical/sneery LOL. in my defense i think i should get a pass when sneering at doxxers and death threat defenders #rayssyscourse #syscourse

[rayssyscourse]

My system is personally mixed on the ToSD, but our thing with it in general is that what it says about how children develop doesn't really match up with anything else on child development. Kids do have personalities, and while I might be wrong about this existing, I've never read anything on child development that actually validates the way the Theory of Structural Dissociation views childhood.

It actually works very well to explain why our endogenic system developed, but the reason my system doesn't inherently like with the way it's applied to systems isn't because we're "fantasy and iatrogenic" according to that other user. It's mostly because we do work with kids and in a way it feels a bit diminishing of children's experiences and think it applies better to just trauma and dissociation.

A lot of it really does make more sense if you apply it to trauma in general instead of just systems, which I believe was the original intention if memory was correct, but now people treat it like the System theory instead of the Dissociation theory. Especially since it has been applied to adults with PTSD.

Childhood development of plurality in general is still just under-researched and like it or not, systems that don't fit that model exist and without them being properly examined we can't say if the Theory of Structural Dissociation universally applies to systems or not. It's just a gap in research and there's no reason to dig in your heals and go "nuh uh" because we have decades of recordings with thousands of individuals in this broad umbrella of group that doesn't fit this model and still has never been properly looked at for how their development works.

I also don't think anyone is arguing that it doesn't exist, but just the levels of how much it should apply to systems and especially early child development is debatable.

sorry ive been bad about posting asks recently, been feeling a little burnt out :') by all means keep sending them, though; I might be slower to reply because busy and mental health but I do really enjoy reading them and responding to them when I do get around to it! <3

as I said a few other times on this topic, I'm not the reigning authority on the tosd (far from it), so I don't want to say a ton until I've had the time to read up on it a little more. that said, I think your take is pretty reasonable. i will say that it's very much still worth using and studying the tosd even if it may not apply to all systems, and that in almost everything there's gonna be outliers. but overall, yeah, I think it's okay to question stuff like that when we just don't fully know.

#syscourse #rayssyscourse #syscourse hot takes

[rayssyscourse]

I love this syscourse hottake idea because it has created a lot of meaningful discussion.

Anyway, syscourse hottake: Intentionally created systems are completely okay, but the community needs to start acknowledging its own problems and the risks of creating a system.

Some plurals believe endogenic systems can develop a cdd after trauma. If true, that is a risk that people need to know about before creating headmates. ptsd and cdds are all terrible disorders but finding a therapist that works with cdds can be harder and more expensive, and there is additional stigma to them that ptsd doesn't have.

It can be irreversible. If you regret it you could be stuck with your new headmate anyway for the rest of your life.

Societal stigma exists for every kind of system. Intentionally created systems don't have a lot of the things that makes it hard for other kinds of systems to mask but masking for them is still having to hide a huge part of their existence. For some systems this can be very challenging and potentially distressing. Additionally for those who decide not to mask anymore coming out can be extremely dangerous and is not something a system can always just take back. For those that don't come out or only come out to certain people there is also always a worry someone will look over your shoulder while you are at the wrong website, find your notes, etc.

yes yes!! and not to beat a dead horse here, but we need to talk more about created systems in different cultural practices (*coughs* tulpamancy). I don't think created systems are inherently bad, but there's so much packed into the subject that people just never talk about.

#syscourse #rayssyscourse #syscourse hot takes

[rayssyscourse]

question/disscussion

hey everyone! this is something I've been thinking about for a while, so if anybody has input that would be awesome so I can eliminate the confusion I have.

this is about the word "system". for a long time I was under the impression that "system" is exclusively a traumagenic or OSDDID term, and thus that non-traumagenics shouldn't use it. I figure(d) that there's a lot of other terms out there, the most common of which being "plural", that were more general terms for non traumagenic systems as well as traumagenic ones.

but it occurred to me recently that I don't really have any basis for that. I must have heard it from somewhere, but unlike the rest of my syscourse opinions I don't have a solid source/evidence to point to.

so what I'm asking is, does this actually make any sense?? or did I just kinda randomly make it up one day lmao?? if anybody has sources or evidence that would be great as well.

and if it turns out I'm wrong about this and "system" isn't a traumagenic only term, does anyone have propositions on how we can more effectively distinguish traumagenic and non traumagenic systems' terms?

I have other posts about this but if you're not familiar with this blog, my main criticism is not the existence of endos but the fact that their community is so intertwined with ours, which has negative effects on us (and them, at least to some extent, I think). so if system isn't the right word, I'd be interested if we as communities could better distinguish exactly what terms mean what, and who they apply to.

that's not to say I want to, like, separate everyone with specific label boxes, but I think it's important for us to have distinguishing terms for those of us whom it's important to, in the interest of having better defined communities and spaces for both traumagenic and non-traumagenic plurals.

I am fully willing to be proven wrong or debated with on this, because like I said I'm not sure if I'm actually right here, so please feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong!

have a lovely day, everyone <3

#syscourse #rayssyscourse #system #plural #plurality #traumagenic #endo critical

[rayssyscourse]

On the usage of the word "sysmed"

I'd like to preface this by saying that I am endo critical, but this argument isn't going to be just "I don't like being called that." I do have my own personal qualms with people on all sides of any issue making up their own words to define the 'other side', but just saying "stop that because I don't like it" has never and will never be an actual or convincing argument. I have actual reasons for this, so please read them before dumbing down my opinion to "oh, he just doesn't wanna be called what [we think] he is".

(quick note: I am plural and trans, which is why I'm speaking on this. Also, the other day I had a very frustrating argument in which I think the other person really should have heard this, so I'm putting this out there in the hopes of reaching other people who might otherwise not think about it. Feel free to disagree, argue, or comment on anything I say, but please do read it all first and be respectful, as I will do my best to do the same to any/all of you.)

The word "sysmed" is taken directly from the word "transmed", which is the main issue I take with it. Transmedicalism is a belief held by many conservative(/-leaning) people--trans and cis alike, although generally more often cis people, who really shouldn't be talking about trans issues at all. Transmedicals, or transmeds, hold that a person is not "really" trans unless and until they fully physically transition (hormones, top & bottom surgery, all of that), and that anybody who can't, doesnt want to, or hasnt yet medically transitioned isn't "valid".

This is highly classist and ableist, because many people don't have the money to transition or they cannot safely transition due to medical issues. And some people just don't want to medically transition, fully or at all, for any plethora of (personal, might I add) reasons. This does not make them 'invalid', but many people think it does, which is why it is a problem for the trans community.

The issue here is that the word "sysmed" is taken from "transmed" despite having nothing in common with it. The only way this would make sense if it was referring to the belief that somehow one did not become a system/plural until obtaining a diagnosis of OSDDID, which is technically an existing belief, but is fairly uncommon. Instead, "sysmed" has been used for anti-endos, and now anybody who criticizes the endo community at all. This is diluting the actual meaning of the word and labeling people as it when they really have nothing to do with what the word means.

It also implies that it has ties to the medical field. Endos claim that they are plural without having the clinical conditions generally attributed to plurality, so using the word "sysmed" weakens their argument by contradiction and ties it to the seriousness of medical issues/conditions when it actually has nothing to do with that, which is extremely harmful and honestly just shitty because its not cool to use medical stuff to add a "gotcha" to a non-medical argument.

Furthermore, the fact that it's taken from the word "transmed" implies a connection or equation between being trans and being plural, which is inaccurate. Being trans and being plural are two completely different things. The only similarity is that they're both generally neurological, but in the same way you wouldn't equate, say, bipolar disorder to tourette's, it makes no sense to compare them. And it is harmful because it is normalizing use of the word, which dilutes its meaning and takes away from the problems it should actually be used for.

That's not to say that you can't compare two experiences that *you* have. If you are both trans and plural, and you see a similarity between the two, because you experience both there's nothing wrong with talking about it. But just because two things aren't mutually exclusive doesn't mean they're the same. Using the word "sysmed" weakens endos' arguments, diverts the conversation in a direction that makes no sense, and dilutes the meaning of an unrelated issue.

If you're pro-endo, you are absolutely allowed to criticize people and arguments you disagree with. But using the word "sysmed" is inaccurate, harmful, and ends up weakening your argument. It's best to call people what they are, whether they're pro, anti, neutral, critical, or anything else. That's how we'll be able to have genuine and helpful conversations and debates: not by making up new words and pulling random other things in, but by looking at things how they are and identifying and discussing how we view and experience them.

If anyone has any arguments or has any other info about the term, please let me know! I'm curious to hear what other people, especially people on different sides of the endo debate, think of this. Thanks to anybody who read this far, lol :)

Have a lovely day, everyone!

#syscourse #rayssyscourse #system #plural #plurality #endo critical #sysmed

[rayssyscourse]

I'd like to clarify, when I say I am anti-endo, that doesn't mean I hate every endo system, etc. My issue lies not necessarily in the existence of non-traumagenic plurality, but the way it is presented.

The OSDDID community has the unique, and often extremely difficult, experience of having the brain forcefully cut itself off from itself (forgive the strange wording, lol) due to severe stress/trauma, and we live with heavy dissociation, amnesia, and many other trauma responses. It is a very difficult disorder to live with. That's not to say that endos never struggle with their plurality, but they do not have the experience of struggling with this disorder. OSDDID spaces and communities were created to support people with the disorder, to give them a place to talk about the rather unique struggles of having it, to share resources to help manage it, to bond and help each other with it.

Endogenic systems have come into our communities claiming to be the same as us, and that they should have a place in these spaces, despite not sharing the fundamental issues that the spaces were created to address/help with. Because of this, it has become increasingly hard--sometimes impossible--to find spaces where we as a traumagenic system can talk about these experiences solely to people who understand and can relate. These days, in most spaces traumagenic systems cannot talk in too much detail about the disorder and its (often scary or upsetting) symptoms, because the science and experiences aren't 'inclusive' of endos.

And yes, these spaces still exist. But they have become much fewer and farther apart, and are more and more likely to be put under fire and called exclusionary for restricting to just OSDDID systems. It has become absurdly difficult to find a space where we can talk about our disorder without censoring ourselves, and when those spaces do exist, there is a constant worry of being harassed for being exclusive just for talking about our struggles.

I would also like to add that I've heard every form of "not me though" when talking about this. If you are endogenic and you do not go into OSDDID spaces, this is not about you. I take issue with the community as a whole, because I feel it has become a general community-wide problem, but as I said in the beginning of this (stupidly long) post, I do not hate, or even really take much issue with, many individual endos.

I will say that the word endogenic has gained a connotation of being one of those who invade/impede on OSDDID spaces. So, I will take slight issue with people who align themselves with that terminology, because it implies that one agrees with, or is at least tolerant of, the actions generally associated with the word/the community it describes. The separation of systems into "traumagenic" and "endogenic" also implies that they are the same fundamental thing, just with slight differences in origin. However, I completely understand that a label does not define anybody's beliefs entirely, so that's not really a main problem in my eyes.

In my ideal version of this, endos would have their own community, defined as separate from the OSDDID spaces. I believe that the terminology should be more distinctly separated from that of OSDDID systems. There needs to be the understanding that endo and traumagenic systems, while sharing some similarities, are on a fundamental level different experiences. OSDDID systems should not have to be associated with the idea that they could/may have been formed without trauma or without the distress that the disorder causes, and likewise endos should not be associated with those aforementioned struggles.

I am not saying I think we need to completely divide ourselves or cut each other out. I see no problem with different types of plurals interacting with shared spaces or relating to/with each other. But the situation as it is right now causes harm to many traumagenic systems as it muddles the definition of who we are and puts less weight on the struggles we face, and takes away spaces that many of us take great comfort in. So, when I say I am anti-endo, I am saying not that I take issue with the concert of the existence of non-traumagenic plurals, but with the current community's idea that they are equatable.

I personally do not see how non-traumagenic plurality could work, because there is no science to it the way that there is for OSDDID. HOWEVER, research on plurality is still in its infancy, so that opinion is subject to change as more research is done. Most importantly, whether scientifically proven or not, I will not tell anybody that they are not experiencing plurality, endo or not, because I don't get to tell people about their own experiences. I will respect endos as long as they respect me, but right now, the situation is such that I feel the endo community as a general group is disrespecting us, so while I can respect individuals, I cannot fully respect the community as a whole.

Sorry for how long this got, lol. Thanks to anyone who actually read it all. Have a lovely day, everyone :)

#syscourse #rayssyscourse #system #plurality #plural

[rayssyscourse]

I'm not doing much tonight and feel like (civilly) talking syscourse, anyone got questions or thoughts (or half-formed ramblings? those are my favorites; my notes app is full of them /lh)

#syscourse #rayssyscourse #system #plural #plurality #endo critical #traumagenic #anti fakeclaiming #anti fakeclaim