#since IMO that dilutes my point. the idea is this particular series CAN be interpreted so both sides legit think their ship is canon

[my-current-obsession]

Something I both love AND hate about FF7 (the original game and everything after, including the Remake trilogy) is that it is just ambiguous and/or player-driven enough that no matter which side of the love triangle you fall on (assuming you do in fact ship Cloud with one of the girls), the majority of fans for that ship are 100% CONVINCED it's the correct/canon option.

Like, certain scenes are definitely up to interpretation, and people are going to thus have varying reads on those scenes and the characters/relationships the scenes are about. It doesn't help that several scenes change depending on the player's choices, which acts as a confirmation bias as you naturally get more time and romantic moments with the girl of your preference. It really seems to me that MOST people who ship Cloud and Aerith have one solid interpretation (with a plethora of supporting evidence) of the series and the romance, while most people who ship Cloud and Tifa have their own solid interpretation with plenty of evidence that is VASTLY DIFFERENT from the Clerith reading of the game.

This is not a case of "one ship is clearly, explicitly canon and fans of the opposition just like their pick better and/or think it made more sense narratively and WISH it was canon" - for an example of that, look to the Avatar the Last Airbender shipping wars. This is a case where both sides literally interpret the story just differently enough that they come to entirely different conclusions about which girl is Cloud's true love. And if either side reaches out to try and explain their viewpoint to the other, they're just met with "uh, no. You're wrong." Try and explain what Cloud might be thinking in a given scene with one of the girls, why he acts a certain way... "That's not it at all, where are you getting this? Are you delusional?"

Like, I am a Clerith shipper. I have played all the games in the compilation and watched Advent Children. I tried to be as completionist as possible, even. And I came out on the other side of really digging into the story of this game loving Cloud and Aerith's dynamic and pretty firmly convinced they were canon. Or as canon as possible in the timeline where she died.

As any Clerith fan who participates in the fandom would know, if you try and explain your interpretation of these characters and the romance to a diehard Cloti supporter... you're met with a lot of "you're misinterpreting! Cloud and Aerith were just friends! She loved Zack to the end and Cloud loved Tifa since childhood and never stopped! Also Aerith is actually BAD for Cloud because she's too pushy/abrasive. She's not helping him open up, she's just forcing him to go along with her and making him uncomfortable!"

All of this is of course infuriating, but I'd like to think I'm self-aware enough to know we are kind of guilty of the same thing. The majority of Tifa fans are SO happy about the kiss in Rebirth, while we're over here dismissing it because, one it's optional, and two Cloud is "obviously" using Tifa as a rebound or settling for her since Aerith is seemingly unavailable. But that's not how Cloti fans see it at all.

We can talk until we're blue in the face about how TIFA deserves better than Cloud because she shouldn't be the second choice - the one he settles for. But I think most people who really love Cloti genuinely don't see it that way. In their eyes, she's NOT second-best. Cloud loved her all along and this kiss is finally confirming that. And nothing we say will dissuade them, just as nothing they say will actually change OUR minds about Clerith.

It is honestly really difficult for me to try and see the story and romance the way Cloti fans do, but I know the reverse is also true. Both groups of fans interpret the characters and relationships differently. The compilation ALLOWS us to interpret them differently. And this is why the ship war for a game from 1997 is still raging on.

Because both camps are certain they're right, they defend their position viciously. Sometimes that means invading the "other side" to tell them how wrong they are. This discussion/rant was prompted by a Cloti fan on a Clerith vid who wanted to debate MY comment about how wonderful the ship was and how good they were for each other. He was "confused" and "concerned" because Clerith fans were reading the story wrong or warping it to suit our ship.

I wanted to tell him, "buddy that's what YOU'RE doing". I wanted to write a goddamn essay explaining why Clerith is canon actually. But considering in my INITIAL comment that he first responded to I'd already brought up why I thought Clerith was great, and he was IGNORING that... I knew it would be pointless. There is nothing I could possibly say that would change his mind. There is nothing he could possibly say that would change my mind.

As long as both sides of this war are fully convinced they're right, this war is going to be endless and brutal. And that's why my absolute biggest fear for part 3 is an open, ambiguous ending regarding the ships. Maybe it will canonize nothing. Maybe it will canonize BOTH by having the actual ending change depending on which girl the player favors.

Either route will offer no relief to this eternal battle. I would honestly prefer for Cloti to explicitly and unambiguously win than an ending where neither girl does. Because I can accept a loss. I can accept being told that actually I WAS interpreting the story wrong, but I'll only accept it from the text itself. If anything, a Cloti ending might encourage me to go through the entire compilation again trying to view it with that canon couple in mind. I'm sure I'd see things differently, even if I'd always have a place in my heart for Clerith. And I sincerely hope that if Clerith were to win that Cloti fans could do the same.

All I know is that I'm sick and tired of this ship war. I personally have never gone after Cloti fans or engaged in Cloti content with the intent to debate or hate on the ship. But I don't speak for all Cleriths. I'm sure at least a few fans of my ship are guilty too. I have seen many obnoxious Cloti fans invading our spaces to disparage us - mostly on YouTube and Twitch, less here on Tumblr - but I KNOW there are plenty of kind Cloti fans who just happily enjoy their ship and leave us to ours as well.

At the end of the day, regardless of how part 3 ends things, I just wish we could live in peace. Please enjoy your ship. Your interpretation of the text and romance is valid. But so is mine. If neither side can agree, then the best thing to do is leave each other alone.

#clerith #cloti #ship and let ship #final fantasy vii #i tried to be as neutral as possible about this topic so i think it's only fair if fans of the other ship can see & chime in too #but please. PLEASE. literally the point of this is that i'm sick of arguing #hardcore fans of one of these ships WILL NOT be persuaded to the other side. don't even try. #i don't want to debate about this. i just want everyone to live in peace #final fantasy #edit: i've been informed this still isn't neutral enough. so i TRIED to make it more so. i don't think it's possible to go further #at least not without cutting out a lot of what i want to say. i'm not taking out what bits of interpretation are left from both sides here #since IMO that dilutes my point. the idea is this particular series CAN be interpreted so both sides legit think their ship is canon #i need at least one example of a sticking point between the sides for that #beyond that i just gave a singular example of ONE bad cloti fan stirring up shit in a clerith space #(and trust i have many more examples i kept to myself for the sake of trying to be neutral) #good fans who mind their own business shouldn't be bothered by me pointing that out since they're innocent. just saying. #anyway if this still isn't neutral enough for y'all i guess i'll remove the cloti tag. just let me know

[amatara]

As for Laura’s life and Laura’s choices: the way we as viewers have come to see Laura’s ending, that she chose to die before giving in to BOB and found salvation in the choosing - do we know if Dale was even aware of that? If he was, and he still chose to do what he did in spite of it, then that would have a huge impact on my ability to forgive him. But I don’t really feel that he knew the full extent of it, and therefore I’m not convinced that he willingly took Laura’s agency. We know that’s what his actions came down to because we as viewers come armed with foreknowledge, but from his own perspective, it’s not nearly as clear to me. And there can be a slippery slope between offering help to a person in need and erasing their agency (acting to prevent someone’s suicide, for instance, also does the latter, and yet we feel such an action is justified) and it feels to me that the narrative intends to toe that line, and to actively make us question where the line is. I’m convinced Dale crossed it, but then again, I have the advantage of knowing the whole story (even if I don’t understand it all). He didn’t. And I feel like many of the stories in Twin Peaks are about agency and being allowed to make one’s own mistakes, and then being forced to “shovel one’s way out of it”. I can’t imagine Dale would be an exception to that rule, that he of all people wouldn’t be allowed to atone for his mistakes. On a different layer, more of a storytelling one so maybe less relevant, I also feel that a lot of clues are pointing to the fact that Dale and Laura were used - by the Fireman, for one, who may be a force for good but doesn’t seem to care much about the fate of individuals. Also like others have said before me, I’m not at all sure whether, for instance, “430, Richard and Linda” was advice or a warning, or maybe both. But I definitely get a vibe that Dale isn’t acting entirely of his own volition, that he’s compelled or coopted by powers beyond his control. Obviously that’s only one aspect, and it doesn’t negate the other aspects of the narrative or his character, but it does play a part in how I’m interpreting this story and Dale’s role in it. Finally, when I say I forgive Dale, I don’t mean that I don’t find him culpable. I mean I forgive him despite him being culpable - and not just because he has “good intentions” but because I believe he is, at heart, a good person, and ultimately still has the potential to be a force for good, and has fought tooth and nail all his life to try to /be/ good, even if his attempts proved flawed in the end. Finally, I think this finale was meant to be divisive. The least we can say is that it was deliberately constructed to have multiple valid interpretations, some of which may very well be contradictory, so obviously, the one that each of us will cling to first is the one that best fits our worldview, our intuitions, and our needs. Tbh that only seems human to me.

#twin peaks #tptr spoilers #dale cooper