#that's just. not the kinda story shannon seems to be trying to tell? and sophie's just struggling

[bookwyrminspiration]

the only part about legacy i liked is the scene where bronte is heavily implied to want sophie to become a councillor. other than that the entire experience was MISERABLE that book was. not fun

Correct! Bronte has been an absolute gem this book, between his you should become a councillor/not distract yourself with romance hints and saying he'd be proud if she was his daughter, he's the lone firefly keeping me light in this pitch black hell.

I will say I've also enjoyed Stina; she's not my favorite, but I can really appreciate her development and place in the story here--which makes it even more unfortunate when she gets undeveloped in Stellarlune for the sake of drama. Oh and Tam! He's been a delight, though unfortunately he is currently kidnapped so we're not seeing a lot of him.

Aside from that...I don't think there's anything else I'm enjoying. Smeyer once said that the further you get into a story, the more the possibilities of what it could be narrows into what it is, and the more people you lose who were attached to other possibilities that didn't come to fruition (paraphrased). Which I think might be happened here for me a little.

Because there is just so much talk about matchmaking and finding her parents and how she deserves this etc. etc. And about how difficult its turning out to be to be in a relationship. It's such a central part to the book and I simply do not give a shit! Both about how much its being focused on and how the characters are acting/being written. Yeah, Sophie, I'm sorry you're having relationship troubles, but you literally acknowledged what the mature, reasonable way to proceed was and then didn't do it. Twice. I'm not sympathetic to that

Also the way both Biana and Sophie are like..."would Fitz wait?" in terms of matchmaking when he has canonically said! twice!! that he would go at her pace, however long she needed. Like. Tell me you're being unfair to him and the issue is being forced without telling me you're being unfair to him and the issue is being forced. The whole book is just so unfair to Fitz. He's characterized and attentive and willing to go slow, even though matchmaking is important to him, and then the narrative turns around and makes a bio parent search necessary in connection to him? Rude. He's consistently trying to communicate and be supportive and Sophie's just doubting him and not returning the effort!! So I'm really not sympathetic to her plight. No, Fitz isn't perfect, but I'm upset about all this more

And when Sophie said she was getting really bad at juggling everything she was very very right. Her priorities are all out of order and she keeps ignoring other people, and I understand she's a busy person who deserves a break. But she's letting everything else slack for matchmaking? I cannot find it in me to care.

Listen. I know. I know that Sophie's only ever wanted to be normal and she hoped that's what matchmaking would be for her, one part of her life that was normal. It's just not a sentiment I resonate with so it doesn't really add to the book for me. It was important to her, I get it, and I'm sorry she doesn't get to be normal like she wants. But there are people relying on her, responsibilities she has agreed to and is failing to deliver on--which also brings me to Team Valiant and all that. They're reaching a stage where they're like "we need to work alongside the council, the black swan has always wanted to work with them" and maybe this is because I grew up with a shit government, but whenever I read that I roll my eyes. because like. fuck the council. they have total control and have consistently fucked up in the past, and overestimate their importance as naturally chosen to lead this world, while also wanting us to sympathize with the burden. it is under the council and their choices that these problems have come to pass, so if it were me I don't know if I'd make the same choices as the characters. and I don't think working alongside the council would've ever been my goal. like hooray if they want to do something that benefits our goals to fix everything in the end, I won't stop them, but also. that doesn't make them wonderful and reliable and mean we shouldn't continue to critique and fix things outside of them. like marx said

I think I could stand it more if there was a balance between all her matchmaking/parentage woes and everything else going on in the series, but it just feels overwhelming. And I really don't care. And I don't like how it's being explored and written. So this book has been very painful to read through.

This isn't everything, but its some of it. Fortunately I do quite like unlocked, so I'll have a brief reprieve of enjoyment before I dive into Stellarlune :)

#kotlc #quil's queries #commonghost #i'm not liking how sophie x fitz are being written (NOT because i'm against their relationship. i'm quite neutral on it) #and I didn't like how sophie x keefe were in stellarlune #maybe I just don't like how shannon writes relationships #and as they become more prevalent I like those books less #anyway. not liking this era sophie #loser girl era but in a you're genuinely not being the best person rn not in a silly loser girl way #and like. yeah I know that can add intrigue and characters don't have to be perfect! #that's just. not the kinda story shannon seems to be trying to tell? and sophie's just struggling #and I'm sorry you're struggling but also some of this is very much something you could solve and you're choosing not to #i know I'm being a little unfair but like. book situation is fake my feelings are real #and my feelings are: annoyed

[the-way-astray]

i feel like a lot of keepblrers would enjoy the hollow star saga (a dark and hollow star, a cruel and fated light, a grim and sunken vow). it's basically kotlc if kotlc was canonically gay. (warning: long rant ahead, if you're interested. this is going to seem very negative, but i promise i'll talk about the positives, too.)

there are four main characters, arlo, nausicaa, aurelian, and vehan.

arlo is basically sophie when it comes to personality. like. she's kinda the most generic female ya protagonist that's sort of shy and gets pushed around a lot except for when the author decides 'hey, she needs to stand up for herself' at random points. then she'll randomly snark for two lines and go back to being the protagonist that kinda lowkey has no distinctive personality traits. she's also clearly the author's bias. you will see what i mean if you look through the chapters. just like sophie, she spends most of the first book being scared of the council.

nausicaa is basically keefe if keefe was a lesbian. she has that snarky, bad-girl vibe and is kind of a loose canon and doesn't care about anything except her love interest (arlo). this of course means she's the fan favorite (i really don't like her, but i don't tend to like characters like keefe so i'm biased as hell don't listen to me). when i tell you she's exactly like keefe (in terms of personality). like. i want you to know that she's exactly like keefe. their senses of humor are comically similar.

aurelian gives off tam vibes, if tam was more central to the story (and white). looking in from the outside you'd be like 'omg what a broody man. what emo thoughts are going through his head. why is he looking at me like that. i'm going to sink into the ground, he clearly hates me. i probably shouldn't piss him off, he'd probably kill me.' and then you see his thoughts and he's just the most average guy out there. like. he's just a normal guy but everyone (including the author) sees him as this emo and broody guy that just glares constantly and is really standoff-ish.

another thing about nausicaa and aurelian is that the author really tries to get you to buy into the fact that they have this intense rivalry, but it falls so flat because they barely interact and it’s so one-sided. very tell-not-show. does that remind you of a certain dynamic in kotlc? that’s right, it’s keefe and tam.

vehan is the one main character that i really can't say is exactly like a character from kotlc but to me he's what fitz could've been if shannon hadn't mangled and massacred him. he's kinda pathetic, ngl. like sopping wet rag vibes. but also he's really sweet. a true cinnamon roll. he spends a lot of time dragging aurelian places and trying not to piss aurelian off because he thinks aurelian hates him (i'll give you one guess who his love interest is). also the author randomly tries to make him flirty at one point and it was so funny how much it didn't work for his character.

and even in other aspects besides the characters, i want you to know that this series is basically just kotlc. the characters are fae, so they are all young and beautiful, they have powers, there's an abusive mother that’s evil but her son doesn’t realize she’s evil, the plot is convoluted as hell and takes way too long to get to the point, the world is described as bright and colorful, the sense of humor is just like the sense of humor in kotlc (which is personally not my favorite but i digress), the author spends a ludicrous amount of time in one character's head really drilling into the audience how much he has a crush on this other character, the incessant use of italics every other word and of course the all-white cast except for a few people here and there.

there's a ridiculous amount of lore that gets introduced in the first book alone, and i think people in this fandom would have a lot of fun with that, too (even if some of the lore is highly, highly irrelevant).

also this author's writing sin is definitely info-dumping. when i say their fatal flaw is info-dumping i want you to know i'm not fucking around when i say that. they will just info-dump a whole couple pages, and the information never becomes relevant. and it happens a lot (this is the author's debut so that might be the reason). here's an example of a massive info-dump:

(none of the above ever becomes relevant, in case you're wondering.)

there are good things too, though. like i'd definitely say that the hollow star saga is better than kotlc. there is a character i like named celadon who eventually becomes more central to the plot. all i'll say about him right now is that he's arlo's cousin and the relationship between him and arlo is genuinely endearing in some aspects. some plot twists were pretty well executed and the second book is absolutely better than the first. this author's strength is definitely backstories. the backstories, especially in the second book, are pretty solid.

only two books are out right now and the third is coming out soon (late november, if i'm not wrong) and i'm dying to read it. the author said the entire series will only be four books, i think, but i don't really trust authors when they say stuff like that anymore so. we'll see i guess.

and if all that wasn’t enough to convince you, i offer you this one final piece of motivation: at one point, nausicaa makes a twilight reference.

basically what i'm saying is: you should read the hollow star saga.

#kotlc #tagging kotlc so that people see this even though it's not about kotlc really #kotlc fandom #keepblr #read it read it read it i know i did i terrible job of marketing it but i still think you should read it #i can't explain it fully but just. the VIBE of the story just OOZES kotlc-ness to me #there are so many things in that series that i just KNOW the kotlc fandom would have a blast with if you all knew this series existed #there's so many opportunities to make cursed content and whatnot #hhhhhh i just NEED you guys to be aware of this series' existence #even if you don't end up reading it #it almost feels like the author read kotlc and then was like 'huh. what if i made this gay and shortened the series' length' #THAT'S how similar the vibe feels to me #a dark and hollow star #a cruel and fated light #a grim and sunken vow

[bookwyrminspiration]

I’ve been thinking about it, and considering elves all don’t age and unless they’re somehow killed in an accident or murder which is rare they continue to live indefinite life-spans… why have we not heard or seen anything about Grady or Edaline’s parents? Wouldn’t they want to meet their adopted grandchild? Wouldn’t Grady and Edaline want to talk to their parents at some point? I’m sure it’s just something Shannon hasn’t thought about it but it’s very much irking me now

great question! given that this world is structured so differently, I think I can guess a few possible reasons for this, but who knows what Shannon's actual explanations for a question like this are.

given what we know about the elven social world, there doesn't seem to be a huge emphasis on knowing your grandparents or relatives aside from being able to name them/identify them if you're in an important family, hence Fitz being able to list off the exact number of greats Fallon is in relation to him. But it was shown that their family didn't exactly approve of the trouble Alvar had gotten up to and had kinda shunned that generation of Vackers.

So a possible in-story explanation is that the Ruewens have determined that Sophie is too much trouble to meet, and that they don't actually consider her to be a part of their family. She's just an unfortunate addition to the family tree that they'll ignore and move on from. However, the Ruewen family is very different from the Vacker family, so I don't think this is necessarily the case.

We could also explain it by saying their indefinite life span doesn't necessitate frequent visits, as they have all of eternity to get around to it. Sophie's been with them for like 2-3 years of the centuries the Ruewen family has been around. But I don't think this is the actual reason.

My guess is that it's because it's a lot of work for Shannon. She already has a huge host of characters, and adding in more is more trouble than its worth. The indefinite lifespan of the elves and the structure of their cities affects their lives and relationships in ways that are hard to predict! We have to guess--Shannon has to guess what makes the most sense, but this is only one worldbuilding detail amongst an entire plot, so its no wonder she skipped over it.

Yes, it would make sense for Sophie to meet all of the Ruewens and their extended family, but the effort it would take to create all those characters and incorporate them into the story isn't worth the effort, though it would give insight into the world. Yes, it would make sense for Grady and Edaline to want to talk to their parents, but their parents don't play a role in the story that affects the progression of the plot, so they'd slow it down and take up limited space Shannon wants to use for something else. All the adults and family we know have a purpose--like information or something--that helps Sophie do her "job," so unless the Ruewen relatives have that, it's not worth it to bring them into the story.

feel free to be irked about it! A natural consequence of creating an entire world--especially one that functions differently from our own--is trying to find a balance between that world and the story you want to tell, and everyone's preferences is different. For example, Sophie not meeting her grandparents doesn't bother me as much because I don't really know my grandparents either! I have so many relatives that apparently exist, but I've never even seen photos. But for those who might have closer family ties, it stands out more and makes less sense. What's realistic changes from person to person!

The implications of a species that never dies and just continues on forever are impossible to fully realize, especially in just a 10 book series. Things like space and family relations are kind of pushed to the side for the plot, leaving things like this a little unsatisfying.

I hope that makes sense! Again, it's my personal reasoning as for why it might not be included from both an in-story and writer perspective, but I would be interested in meeting any of the Ruewen's extended family!

#we really only see adults that affect sophie's journey as the moonlark #she doesn't know any adults that just exist in her life #they all propel her towards something #her parents don't exactly fit that but it's because they're her parents #but then we've got juline as a member of the black swan #kesler as her introduction to the talentless and as Dex's dad #there's more but I'm blanking #alden as a guide for her the first few books #della as a guardian in a way. though she kinda disappears from the story a lot. no pun intended. #all the black swan members #gisela as an antagonist #so many adults #kotlc #keeper of the lost cities #quil's queries #nonsie #kotlc character analysis #kotlc ruewens

[bookwyrminspiration]

is it still council-hating hours? even if not, this is something that's been bothering me for....so long. and i am going to explode if i don't say it right now. (In fact i actually have a doc titled "council incompetence rant" that is. getting a little long.)

One of the things that annoys me the most in Keeper is how utterly incompetent the Council is. They are shit at their jobs! They don't make sense! And that would be fine if that was something that was explored and talked about in the story, but it's not?

Like, sure, it's brushed on a little, but Keeper never goes in-depth in order to explain just how flawed and corrupt the system is! We have no idea how far the rot goes because we haven't been given a chance to see how far it goes, and despite the earlier books being really great setup for all kinds of plots and discussions surrounding the Council, it feels like Messenger is completely dropping that in favor of..."Neverseen Bad, Council + Black Swan Good". Which I call fucking bullshit on, by the way, because this series has gone to pretty decent lengths before to show that it's not the case! So WHY are we getting to that now?

Well, I think all of this is the symptom of a bigger problem.

Note: I don't want to be mean, and please tell me if I'm being too critical here, but this series has some serious problems actually delivering on what it's saying.

Like, it's trying to tell us that Sophie shouldn't be doing all this because she's a kid, but then it treats her very own existence as a project as background information when that should absolutely be at the forefront (like it was in earlier books)!

It's trying to tell us that discrimination against the Talentless is bad, but then every single member of it's cast has an ability, has a strong ability, and regularly uses their ability! Even Dex, who could have easily been talentless and good with tech, gets to be a Super Good Gadget Person thanks to his ability as opposed to his own creativity and ingenuity.

It's trying to tell us that maybe banishing children is bad, but also tells us that Exillium is now """fixed""" because Oralie gave them...better tents? Food? And never touches on the fact that children are still. getting. banished. It doesn't explore Tam's anger in detail, Linh is only there to be the token asian girl, it does nothing to fully dispel any thought of the Council being alright.

And it's trying to tell us that the Council fucks up, it's showing us that Councillors have no problem being incredibly selfish and violent and so many other terrible things, but that never changes. Nothing in Keeper is changing. It is only maintaining the status quo!

I'm confused as to what Messenger is trying to tell her readers! Are the Council good or bad? Is working with the Council good or bad? Are the Black Swan and Neverseen actually morally grey? Should I be angry at what's happening in these books? Am I meant to look at all the rot and shrug because "that's just how it is"?

And like...I wouldn't be mad if Keeper was just...bad! I mean, I would, but I wouldn't be as distraught! What really grinds my gears is that Keeper has the chance to be good. It has the chance to do great things - and at times it absolutely does! - but it keeps reinforcing belief in a deeply flawed and broken system that is regularly hurting people. And those examples were just off the top of my head!

And again, if this was explored within the series, that would be amazing, but the problem is that it's...not. And that's just...a real fuckin' shame, honestly.

- pyro

(sorry if this was like...too angry? i started and then kinda just...couldn't stop. i should probably get a hobby that's not tearing a middle grade series apart. oops.)

it may have been over a week since you sent this (thank you for being patient with me!!), but fuck yes it is still council hating hours. it is always council hating hours in this household that is not actually a house. (also that incompetence rant sounds intriguing)

yes! you are right! they are so bad at what they're supposed to be doing it's like they're just figures for people to look to and say "yea they'll take care of it" to keep everyone else from acting out! but it's really interesting to see a government so awful and incompetent be such an integral and influential part of the story...without acknowledging that they're actually really bad? I know in Unlocked there's a line where Shannon says something like "Sophie had to figure out who the bad guys were: the black swan? the council? someone else entirely?" but then it's never touched on again that I can remember. Thinking through the series, I honestly can't think of a situation that the council, of their own volition, saw was an issue and corrected in a way that was beneficial to those who needed it. Like yea, Oralie gave money to Exillium, but that was after Sophie chewed her out about it. I think i've said it before but in case not: it feels like they've taken the "for the good of the many over the good of the few" ideology too far in a society that doesn't work for. If someone threatens the majority (and often that's just in appearance only) they get rid of them to preserve the image of the rest. It doesn't care about their people, it cares about the majority of people feeling undisturbed.

considering Sophie is part of a huge organization created literally because their society, led by that system, isn't working for a lot of people, they (the Black Swan) sure do go along with the council a whole lot. I think one of the linked posts in one of my masterposts is specifically about how making the Black Swan work so closely with the council screwed them over and completely undermined everything they were working towards. I'm going to make a very vague comparison here, but the Black Swan feel like "we need to fix the system" while the Neverseen are "the system is broken lets start over" (except the Neverseen added a lot more violence into the mix). It's absolutely infuriating to have them working side by side: one, because the Black Swan aren't accomplishing any of their goals and should cut their losses and go back to being mysterious underground groups with more freedom to move (in my opinion), but two, because it makes the council seem like it's trying to fix things when really it feels like a publicity thing to make the public think they're addressing the rebel issue while they're really just showing up in places and causing problems. And!! that's another thing! it feels like their collaboration with the Black Swan is to address the problem of having rebels, not the problems these rebels have identified and are trying to fix. Unfortunately, it seems the council is getting their way more than the Black Swan, getting them to act more legally and work closer with less room for working outside the system. if that makes sense.

considering it's literally stated in unlocked that there is no "good" and "bad," there does seem to be a lot of focus on associating the Black Swan with being Right, and the Neverseen with being Wrong. I can hope that it's the outward reactions to the Black Swan realizing they've done some fucked up stuff (Sophie) and are now overcompensating and trying to make sure their every move is the correct one. But I do think it will be interesting to see if Sophie makes the connection in canon (as she's already started to) that there isn't always a right option, there's just the best you can do with a situation and the Black Swan's insistence that she was "in the wrong" (a summary) helps her realize her own values and think through their decisions with her own perspective instead of just trusting them

response to your note: you're fine! you bring up a good point that this book sounds like it wanted to be a unique perspective (by having the "good guys" also be questionable and give the "bad guys" reasonable motives) but the execution misses the mark for a lot of us. so you're qualms and observations are entirely valid and I don't think you're being mean at all! I think you're expressing a frustration you have with something, which I support and encourage.

at times it feels like Shannon bit off more than she could chew in terms of all the complicated things she could get into when it comes to this series. not saying she's doing a bad job or a horrible author or anything, just that there are some things she introduced that kind of get left behind or unexplored because there's so much else going on. I think we can see that in the whole being experiment part of Sophie life. we saw sophie was uncomfortable with it in the first few books and would sometimes bring it up, but I personally would've been more satisfied if she'd either taken the time to process it (opposed to her think about that later strategy) or come to the realization that no, she isn't okay with it and she deserves to have her thoughts on the matter heard. she was literally created to serve someone elses purpose, and brought into the fight too early at that. and yet it's treated like an "oopsie, guess we just gotta go with it" thing, like this minor part of her story when I bet her thinking about it for more than a minute at a time would absolutely wreck her. but I'm getting caught up in this, so moving on!

I think we can see it in the talentless too, as it's treated like a "that doesn't affect me" thing for Sophie. because she doesn't have any friends that are talentless right now--the closest she's got is Marella, who I think is still legally considered talentless with her pyrokinesis. it's been acknowledged that she doesn't think the way talentless are treated is right, but it doesn't impact her right now so she's not really doing anything about it. maybe if this was brought back later with someone like Jensi, then that would be a satisfying conclusion to this issue (not a conclusion, but it wouldn't be left hanging, if that makes sense). And I can understand the benefit of leaving things open to go back and explore later from a writers perspective, but at a certain point it becomes more of a hindrance to the story than anything else.

and exillium! I have so many thoughts on Exillium that I actually started talking about it earlier in this post. They're not doing anything unless prompted and what they do is the bare minimum. With the tents and the food, they aren't fixing Exillium, they're making it into what it should've been at the very least were they going to actually go down that route. So I can't praise them for it when it's just basic decency to provide literal children with food and shelter when you force them to be somewhere they don't want to. But all this doesn't fix Exillium, because the problem is that it exists in the first place. The problem is that the council saw children who were struggling, and decided the best thing to do with them was to just get them out of the way for everyone else. Three coaches total for leadership? yeah, there's no way that place was ever supposed to be "alternate learning" or however Oralie phrased it, that was just so you could say you hadn't completely abandoned them in the middle of nowhere.

you're so right about the council fucks up bit--I think the most obvious example of this is with Sophie's ability restrictor. Yea, she's not wearing it anymore, but that's not because the council changed their minds. It's because she broke the law and the didn't punish her for it. this is a great example of how things keep trying to move forward, but the council isn't doing anything to stay up with it. "they are selfish and violent[...] but that never changes." yes!! this!! you put it so well! the council is still the same old council that we saw in book one, concerned with their own interests and their own views, just trying to mitigate the damage Sophie and her friends are capable of doing to their system. Note: the fact that a handful of teenagers who haven't even graduated can do this much damage might be telling of the structural integrity of their system. Bronte and Terik did a little flip, and Alina replaced the Now Crispy Kenric, but aside from that nothing has changed.

I will say, I personally don't want it to be clear who the good guys and bad guys are. (not saying that's what you're asking for! just piggybacking off your comment on the confusion). I'm glad that the characters make me think and I'm grateful there isn't just the "we're good and they're bad" element you see in other stories. not that that's bad, i just think realistically they'd be more complex and their simplicity grows repetitive after a while. But like I said, at times it feels like there's too much going on for there to be a clear message, which in and of itself could be the message. i could be seeing something where there's nothing, though. I think part of it might be Shannon trying to take on all these complex narratives and perspectives with a limited perspective (as in she only has Sophie to tell the story through), while also needing to make it enjoyable and palletable to a young audience.

and I agree with you! I think it's a lot of the potential we see not being used that makes us so infuriated (or me at least). Because there are some stories yo uread where you're like "ah. it's just one of those stories. cool." and you move past it. Because you know it's going to have a set perspective and you know it's going to accomplish what it wants, but Keeper seems to have so many possibilities and Shannon's getting stuck in this rut of good and bad after so long. maybe we'll get out of it in the next book with sophie thinking the Black Swan was in the wrong, but I also wouldn't be surprised if that Didn't Happen.

it's just like what i was saying about Ro! There's all these opportunities for these characters and this world to be really explored and fleshed out and complex, but we've gotten stuck in this romance drama and loosing fights again and again with little progress. All their actions are undoing the Neverseen's actions and counting it a victory because no one is dead. I just think there could be so much more that we're not getting because the story tried to go too broad when it wasn't ready for it.

this response got very long but in essence: I agree with your assessment of the story. is frustrating to see so many of the details and paths we'd like to see explored that often aren't in fiction just pass us by.

there is a special place for keeper in my heart and I will always appreciate it for that, but I also mourn what it could've been.

(also: you are not too angry! you have genuine thoughts about this series and they deserve to be heard! we are allowed to have complaints, even about the things we like. we don't have to appreciate every single aspect and we're allowed to be mad at the things we don't like.)

#we are a week into october and I have several asks from september still #how many can i answer in one day is the question #but back to what you were saying pyro #I don't want to just completely rewrite the entire series myself #but I do think there are things that could've been approached better and the council is one of them #If the Black Swan and Sophie both acknowledge their faults #i don't fully understand why they work so closely together #but that's a whole other thing so I should probably stop #kotlc #keeper of the lost cities #kotlc character analysis #kotlc council #the black swan #quil's queries #pyrokinetic-loser #long post

[bookwyrminspiration]

The Maruca scene in Legacy frustrates me to no end because I simply cannot understand Maruca’s argument. I don’t get why she says that Sophie “needs her” since she manifested as a Psionipath. (Might have spelled that wrong.) Like, do other psionipath’s not exist? That was a rhetorical question, because they obviously do exist because they’re brought up multiple times throughout the series. Could Sophie seriously not just…get another person if she wanted to? She literally works for the government at this point, she could probably just say to the Council “Hey I need a psionipath so the Neverseen actually gets defeated” and they’d probably just give her a fully trained psionipath guard or something. Why would Sophie’s first choice be a teenage girl who JUST manifested and has little to no experience or training? I just don’t get it, I understand that Sophie’s other friends are fighting the Neverseen because they were kind of roped into it and the Neverseen’s hunting them down anyway, but that’s not really the case for Maruca, so I don’t get why Sophie’s psionipath has to be someone she met at school? I don’t know, I’m probably just overthinking, but the scene just makes no sense to me.

oo so glad I wasn't the only one who saw the faulty logic here! this scene kinda confused me because I'm a very logic-oriented person, and the validity of Maruca's argument was just...not there. It was more of an emotional appeal, playing into Sophie's fear of her friends getting hurt and the embarrassment of past failures and portraying herself as someone who could fix/prevent that

on the one hand I understand how big of a deal it could feel like to have someone capable of mass physical protection, but it also feels like Shannon oversold it a little bit to make sure we'd get that affect and think Maruca was really important. Sophie thought, "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING" and Maruca called her ability, "A war changer." and Marella referred to her as "our secret weapon."

A common phrase writers hear a lot is show don't tell, which in this context means show us why this ability is a game changer. Show us through actions and demonstrations that Maruca manifesting as a psionipath changes everything and why we should care. instead, Shannon has the characters convinced that it's a big deal, but doesn't really give more than that. So the argument falls flat due to lack of support.

I think part of it is that Maruca is a friend (term used loosely), or at the very least a familiar face. In a story a lot of the appeal is the characters, so making one of the characters we already know into a psionipath makes us care more about them than just a government assigned one. That would also introduce another character into the story, and there's already so many to keep track of. So both because we already had a connection to Maruca and to keep things simpler, it made more sense to make her into one. However, were this a real world the kotlcrew could absolutely try and find the abilities they needed another way, and it would be a lot more reasonable to do that and make sure you had a strong team than just surrounding yourself with friends.

I'm currently trying to decide which logical fallacy Maruca's argument falls most into, but I'm thinking it's either a hasty generalization or a false dichotomy. I guess it could kind of be both. She's taken a few points--that they've frequently lost to the Neverseen, they get hurt a lot, psionipaths make shield specifically to prevent that--and jumped all the way to her being a significant change that will alter everything. There's the dichotomy element of the we either let Maruca join and fight or we don't use her all, though it's not explicitly stated. Sophie was arguing (well, she was trying not to argue) that adding Maruca to the team would be a big responsibility and also trying to hold up her promise to Wylie, while Maruca was arguing in favor of her joining. There are more options yet they didn't really address them. it was just all or nothing, which made the whole scene less convincing and harder to engage with for me.

There's also the bandwagon element of it, as she got Linh and Marella to back her up and add more pressure to Sophie without actually adding to her argument. it adds social pressure, but not logical. a lot of the argument was appealing to emotion, insistent on drama and past failures and the promise of success and a new start. Linh especially as she talked about her hopes of getting Tam back.

anyways, all that to say the argument felt like we were told this was a big deal and then went on very little logic--and while I don't expect or even want 100% logic from these characters all the time, this scene seems like one that could've benefited from it. this was possibly a little forced by shannon because she wanted maruca included, but who knows! i'm just theorizing!

#hey just noticed keefe used the word females as in 'females can be cruel' in legacy and i am suddenly uncomfy. #but I didn't look at the page number so i can't tell you where it is exactly #somewhere in the first half #but back to maruca #we haven't seen her a whole lot so there's not a lot to go on #but this argument just never convinced me #there's so many holes that are thinly patched with emotional ties #i accepted it because I can't really do anything else. but it never made complete sense #kotlc #keeper of the lost cities #maruca chebota #kotlc character analysis #quil's queries #nonsie #long post

[bookwyrminspiration]

Character Analysis Masterpost: Side Characters

don’t see a character/topic you want? Send me an ask!

reminder: all these posts are just my opinions and observations. They are not absolute and you are more than welcome to disagree with me. There’s no right way to interpret a character

Grady:

Sophie going to be pissed at him

His trauma affects his parenting

How Keefe and Grady Interact

He's incredibly stubborn, which isn't always good

The impact of him thinking Sophie started the war

Elwin:

Could he adopt Keefe?

He is universally adored and for good reason

Character flaws!!

Alden:

who could his “perfect match” possibly be (spoiler, no one knows)

perfect match 2, electric boogaloo

His approach to parenting

Is he a bad parent?

He never would've found Sophie on his own

Della:

what’s her background, Shannon?

Mr. Forkle:

Why did Mr. Forkle supported Sophie’s decision?

What if he'd told Sophie her unmatchable status sooner?

It's infuriating how he dismissed Sophie's unmatchability

Him being a twin didn't land (part two)

Juline:

Just her in general. An overview (Timeline correction)

How was she forgiven so quickly?

Prentice:

The way he’s written is...not great

Blur:

He’s let Keefe run wild

Tiergan:

Could he be Sophie's father? (part two)

Tinker:

General overview, I like her a lot

Tinker is autistic <3 /pos

Ro:

Will she tell everyone what she knows about Keefe’s ability?

She’s very repetitive as a character

What's next for her now that Keefe is gone?

She's incredibly dismissive of Keefe's feelings

Ro just keeps talking about Sokeefe. it's getting annoying

How I would've written Ro

Please stay out of Sophie and Keefe's relationship, thanks

Once again, her interference in the romance is weird

Aroace Ro!

Why is she the way she is?

Bo:

he feels flat and uninteresting, almost repetitive

Bo’s gonna get himself killed with that mindset

Cadfael:

He’s motivated by whatever helps him

Lovise:

Her (affectionate)

Brielle:

Her (affectionate)

Flori:

She seems to replace Calla sometimes

Bronte:

Bronte changed the most out of everyone

What's his impact on the story?

His inflicting and dealing with emotions

Bronte doesn't need his ability. It's there for Sophie

Fintan:

His past and "long history" with Bronte

Fintan wants more than just chaos and destruction

Why so many italics in his dialogue?

Could he be Sophie's father? (part two) (amendment)

Lady Gisela:

How did she escape? Does she have another ability?

I don't think Gisela thinks she's bad

Is she trying to make humans manifest (through Keefe)?

What if Keefe hadn't been what she needed?

Vespera:

How did she go numb?

Glimmer:

Glimmer is very clever and I love her

Glimmer is soft with Tam for a reason

Could she be Eleanor Wright? (part two) (part three)

Alvar:

So what’s the deal with this guy

Lord Cassius:

I think he’s kinda boring

Symbolism of the Sencen family crest

Could he be working with Fitz to do something?

Is he supposed to have a backstory?

Misc:

Don't Sophie's old acquaintances remember her?

Linh and Jensi deserve to be friends

Tarina, my beloved.

Sandor might not survive the ending of this series

Lord Cassius and Lord (?) Quan meeting for drinks

Livvy and Alden

Dadwin? Dadwin.

The Songs vs the Sencens: both are bad

The bodyguards as 12 year olds

Could Sophie and Glimmer bond if Glimmer was half-human?

Why haven't Alden and Prentice talked?

Lady Zillah (part two)

#character analysis masterpost #masterpost

[bookwyrminspiration]

pyro again! (and take your time answering my asks, i send in a lot askjskjsk.) do you think there's any chance another character will die by the end of the series?

(im personally really hoping bronte dies, but i dont think he's important enough to have an impact for most readers. maybe oralie, then? it could be her "redeeming" act, since that's a popular trope.)

welcome back, pyro!! I’ve sometimes wondered who would die if we got another, because it seems like we’ve been going suspiciously long without anything going drastically wrong. (I’m aware Biana got her scars, but that’s distinctly different because it was her personal battle and something she had to deal with compared to the more widespread effect of a death, if that makes sense

In the first few books it seemed people were dying and reviving left and right, but it’s been a while since then. I think our last death was Mr. Forkle 2, electric boogaloo, which was in Lodestar. That could be wrong though. But now it’s always like oops we made a mistake and some people got hurt but everyone will be okay. It’s been…long enough that’s it’s like ooo will this be it?

As for who would die next, I’m not entirely sure. Shannon has said she planned to kill Sandor in every book he’s been in, but she never follow through. So maybe next time she’ll follow through. He’s not her only bodyguard anymore, and he frequently gets hurt protecting her. It’s not unreasonable to see him going down in her defense. Maybe even in a dramatic battle scene where her buys her a few precious seconds to do something she needs to, or to take a fatal injury so she can keep going. That would result in a lot of guilt that would eat at her and complicate the story (in a good way).

I could also see Alvar dying. It seems like he’s on his way to just that with his weakening body, but I don’t know if that would have a big enough impact on Sophie for it to make it into the books. That’s more of a Fitz and Biana situation, and while they are important they’re not the main character. It seems the aftermath of thag would take place off-screen, which might defeat the point of a death and not satiate this ongoing tension

as for bronte and Oralie, I don’t think Bronte will die, but I’m open to being wrong. There’s already been so much chaos with the council and so killing him off because of his association or something feels like a repeat of Kenric. I also don’t think he’s truly close enough to Sophie for it to really sting. She’d hate it and grieve, but it would be fueled by anger at her own perceived failure and not at the loss of someone she was emotionally attached to. Now, if he were to die directly at Fintan’s hands as he tries desperately to reason with his old friend, that would be something I’m 100% open to…just saying. Begging and pleading with Fintan to stop, to come back, trying to apologize, only to be engulfed in flames. Dramatic. Excellent. I love it

Oralie I could more reasonably see dying because Sophie has such a tension with her and a history, which makes it more dramatic for us as readers. It’s the most likely to tear us apart because it’s going to tear Sophie apart. All the times she’d yelled at her, ignored her, hurt her. she’s going to think she shouldn’t spent that time getting to know her. Wanting to forgive her. I think she’d have the most regrets with Oralie’s death.

I’m personally not a huge fan of redemption through death, the idea that there only way to fix your problems is to sacrifice yourself. That you can’t learn and heal in a safe, positive, controlled way. but it’s popular and I could see Shannon going with that. There’s also be the element of her being reunited with Kenric, a dramatic lovers tale. I think if Oralie died she’d die alone with Sophie, slowly loosing consciousness as she tells Sophie all the things she wished she had the time to say as her biological mother, trying to fix as much as she can in the few moments she has left. And Sophie telling her not to talk like that and to hold on and all that.

I’ve kinda got off topic but those are the characters I personally could see dying! The one that are closer to Sophie or have a history with her to make it seem more real. It’s a very interesting theorizing about them and who would hurt the most!!

#pyro you are excellent #full of great ideas #I love hearing from you #also I know I more of your asks to answer dw #I will get there #eventually #Oralie dying is like a hmm that’ll probably happen but I don’t know if I like it #so much to unpack there #kotlc #keeper of the lost cities #kotlc fandom #tw death #pyrokinetic-loser #long post #quil’s queries #asks #nonsie