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bylerphobic · 2 years

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I actually love seeing this in the script because the fact that we see flashbacks of max talking shit abt mike and then also see this in the script is proof to me that el’s anger to mike/knowing he’s lying/bonding w max over mikes BS brought max back from the dead (just like we see during the flashbacks in the show)

Especially since, from el’s pov, these are the most obvious lies- El can’t say 100% what was going through mike’s mind when he saw her in the yellow bennys burger t shirt, she can’t say truly if he was in love with her at first sight. But she does know, factually, that she cannot fly. That she cannot move mountains. And she knows that Mike doesn’t believe that either, even though he says he does. Just like how she knows that Mike doesn’t love her, even though he says he does.

Even by the standard of mike seeing her as a superhero, it’s an even more idolized verison of her. Mike doesn’t even just see her as a superhero, he sees her as a superhero with even more extreme versions of her powers, versions of her powers that aren’t even true. Not only can he not appreciate El for who she is as a person, outside of her powers, but he can’t even appreciate her for the superhero that she seemingly is- he has to turn her into an even MORE fantastical version of her powers.

I also think that this is going to be a turning point for El’s powers. So far, El’s powers have been based on fear, anger, pain, bad memories, just like Henry taught her. And yes, El is mad at Mike here, and trying to use her anger at Mike’s monologue and his lies to fuel her strength (especially since , but it isn’t enough. That only works for destructive powers, not for reviving people. So, El has to focus on the good memories, on the happy emotions, just like we see in that last paragraph. Even Kali (via her Brenner illusion) tells El that she has “a great wound”. Her anger towards mike isn’t enough- she doesn’t need him. She doesn’t even need her anger towards him to fuel her powers anymore. She doesn’t need him. Just like she doesn’t need Brenner anymore and doesn’t need her rage towards him to fuel her powers, and instead, can focus on happy memories of Hopper and her family and friends.

Because El’s constant usage of bad memories/emotions to fuel her powers is forcing her to relive her trauma and never be able to fully move past it. Especially since Mike is telling El to fight in that Voiceover, and as we know, he says it repeatedly. But Mike is wrong. I think that even though El starts to save max from Vecna when mike starts yelling fight, I think that’s honestly when she starts to realize that fighting isn’t going to work anymore- not that she has to make peace with vecna, but more in a “she has to focus on the happy memories to save max” way. As well, the quote that the script highlights in mike’s voiceover is the quote that parallels Brenner talking about how she’ll have to fly. El is realizing that she doesn’t need mike, just like she doesn’t need Brenner.

I’ve seen people getting upset/thinking that this is milkvan proof but literally the opposite could not be more true. This is from byler proof, and firm independent El proof.

It’s also interesting to me that El focuses on her breathing- just like we saw Hopper trying to get Sarah to focus on her breathing. El isn’t fuelled by mike here, she’s fueled by love for max and for her family.

El places a hand on max’s heart. I’m wondering if El heard Will saying “you’re the heart” to Mike and realized that Will was the one pushing mike to make the speech.

It’s also interesting to me that they directly parallel El rescuing Max to El sending Henry to superhell- part of me wonders if El was fuelled by grief for the dead kids rather than fuelled by her usual anger/other bad memories.

Also thinking about El hearing mike’s voice RIGHT as she looks down at Max’s “lifeless body”. That doesn’t sound like “mike helping El gain courage” to me. That sounds like El blaming mike for max’s death.

El literally hears mike’s voice as SOON as she looks down at Max’s lifeless body. Because mike’s monologue killed max. Because it was full of lies. Because El needed to focus on the good memories to save max, and mike’s lies were making her focus on the bad ones (even their relationship issues and his lies ASIDE, the night she escaped from Brenner and co at Benny’s was literally extremely traumatic for her. She literally watched Benny die???)

Forced conformity (mike trying to claim that he loves El and giving his monologue full of lies so that he can continue to try and conform to heteronormative expectations) is literally killing the kids (max).

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bylerphobic · 2 years

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Wait, do you think Mike has realized his feelings and was thinking about breaking up with El? Why do you think so?

For one thing, I think Stranger Things uses a LOT more coding and allegory than people give it credit for. And they are saying that there is absolutely some perspective fuckery going around in the season 2 finale even if I don’t understand it fully. People tend to mention the two cars that take El and Will away but it goes deeper.

But I don’t think that’s what you’re here for so instead I’ll talk about the Snow Ball. I believe Mike got his first big clue beforehand.

Because Lucas/Max and Jonathan/Nancy get fitting and happy lyrics whenever the camera is on them during the Ball, meanwhile El and Mike’s are downright miserable. And El has no reason to be unhappy so it has to be Mike.

Here’s a full breakdown:

It always struck me as weird that Mike would encourage Will to dance with a girl who just insulted him – Mike encouraged the Party to ignore Troy's bullying or outright stood up to him previously. And besides, that’s just not what a good friend does! It’s Dustin’s conversation with Steve outside the gym that gives it away:

Steve: So, remember, once you get in there… Dustin: Pretend like I don’t care. Steve: You don’t care. Dustin: I don’t care. Steve: There you go. You’re learning, my friend. You’re learning.

This refers back to Steve’s arguably bad advice earlier in the season – except they conveniently leave out every other context clue of the situation that makes Dustin’s situation different from Mike’s. No mention of girls or Max or that the goal of pretending is getting the person you like to dance with you or reciprocate your feelings. NONE. That’s because you are meant to understand that Dustin during the Snow Ball is Mike’s stand-in.

He’s changed something about himself to fit in better, can’t dance with the person he really wants to dance with, looks out into the crowd but noone else approaches him. He starts to wallow and even cry on the sidelines until Nancy arrives to dance with him, just like El arrives to dance with Mike.

The most damning are the songs, though: they show which characters are genuinely enjoying themselves and who aren’t. There are three songs playing during this sequence.

Nancy and Jonathan glance at each other while Twist of Fate is playing, this line specifically: Life doesn’t mean a thing without the love you bring.

Mike has fun until a romantic song comes on and everyone takes notice. Lucas asks Max to dance during Time After Time but he’s nervous, stammers, backtracks but Max helps him out:

Max: Are you trying to ask me to dance, stalker? Lucas: No, of course not. Unless… you want to. Max: Sooo smooth. Come on.

These are the lyrics playing:

Lying in my bed I hear the clock tick and think of you Caught up in circles Confusion is nothing new

Fitting and sweet because Lucas is talking in circles. Now this is the part where a girl comes to ask Will to dance: (tumblr keeps breaking my formatting so I hope it works)

Sometimes Do you want to dance? you picture me Um… I don’t… I’m walking too *Mike nudges Will* far ahead I mean… I mean, yeah. Sure. You’re calling to me *shows Mike* I cannot hear what *shows Will and girl* you’ve said / Then you *shows Mike and Dustin* say go slow *Will-girl and Lucas/Max* I fall behind *Mike and Dustin* The second hand unwinds *Lucas/Max*

After, Mike is frowning (and he looks in Will’s direction longer than Dustin pays attention to Max). By the time El arrives, he looks very out if it, sitting alone. Every Breath You Take starts playing and is probably the most revealing part of this whole long ass post. Watch the scene and connect what is shown on screen and what you hear. Consider that it’s often from Vecna’s point of view, sometimes from the characters. It’s not generally a romantic song, a lot of it is quite creepy but there are some lines that are endearing on their own or just a cheeky reference to Max calling Lucas stalker.

Every breath you take /Mike Every move you make /El Every bond you break /Mike Every step you /Mike take / I'll be watching you /El

Every single day /both El and Mike And every word you say /both Every game you play /Mike: You look beautiful. Every night you stay /El I'll be watching you /Mike: Do you want to dance?

Oh, can't you see /El: I don’t know how. Mike: I don’t either. You belong to me? /both How my poor heart aches /They take each other’s hand. With every step you take? /Mike: Here, like this.

Every move you make /Mike: Yeah, like that. And every vow you break /Nancy Every smile you /Dustin fake / Every claim you stake / I’ll be /Will watching you /Lucas and Max

Since you've gone, I've been lost without a trace /Dustin and Nancy I dream at night, I can only /El and Mike see your face /Max kisses Lucas I look around, but it's you I can't replace /Lucas and Max I feel so cold, and I long for your embrace /Max hugs Lucas I keep crying, baby, baby please /Mike kisses El

Look, pretty much every other part of the song fits so I can’t help thinking that what it says about Mike/El is true as well. As of s4, we know Mike is a target of Vecna and that Vecna is wary of El. We know Lucas and Max’s feelings for each other are genuine and this is one of Max’s happiest memories. Nancy and breaking vows? She had a messy breakup with Steve in season 2 after taking back that “I love you”. We know Will is faking a smile here because he obviously doesn’t want to dance with a girl.

The difference between other couples and El/Mike shots is incredible when you start noticing. The ONLY remotely romantic lines they get are the same ones that the song fades out to, showing the Mind Flayer/Vecna: at the end, the shot covers Mike’s eyes as El leans her head against his. We go outside, where the camera turns upside down:

Oh, can't you see You belong to me?

In the gym in normal Hawkins, there are yellow lights inside. In the Upside Down, the same lights are blue.

And we know that attraction is just like electricity, in the show’s language.

(Best I can tell, lights never change color in the UD in any others scenes. Not the streetlights, or the headlights on Billy's car, or the lamp Nancy & company are gathered around in s4.)

As for how it went after, this is just my speculation but it makes sense to me currently:

I think Mike realised his feelings for Will are romantic sometime around the end of s2. They scared him. He latched onto his parents telling him he will grow out of childish things, even ones "with emotional value" so he convinced himself to avoid Will, spend less time on dnd and more with El. He thinks he likes both of them, one person he will grow out of, one he will grow into. It will work! After all, he was so relieved and overwhelmed when El showed up alive, wasn't he? It has to be romantic.

S3 is him not knowing what he wants. That's why he is shocked when the "I love her" slips out. (It's true, just not the way he thinks.) That's why he is trying to recreate the "crazy together" moment with El but can't bring himself to say he loves her twice when he's alone with her - it would come across as romantic and he might not be conscious of it, but deep down he doesn't want to lie to her, not about this. He loves her after all, he cares about her so, so much and doesn’t want to hurt her.

And then, at the end of s3, he literally has a light bulb in the closet turning on moment. He doesn't want to kiss El back, hearing I love you too doesn't make him happy, and now El reinitiated a relationship he can't break out of. He's what, 14? He doesn't know how to break up with a girl who is grieving her father over a letter and besides, what if she doesn't want to see him again? They told us Mike fears that El would no longer want his friendship after she doesn't need him, which is why he's so worried and preoccupied with her during s4 post-Lenora. (Which is only 3-4 days, tbh.)

I think s4 is Mike learning to let El go, despite appearances. We are told in El's letter that Mike was trying to console her about not fitting in at school, possibly about her grief. Then during their fight, Mike is forced to acknowledge he can't even write love to her, which he hasn't noticed, but she has - he realises that they might have to break up even if El is hurting because he's just adding to her pain by waiting. He pretty much tells us they can’t come back from that fight.

The reason I don’t vibe with the interpretation that he’s trying to convince himself he still has romantic feelings for her during the course of the season is that I find it incredibly sketchy how vaguely he speaks of the issue. He uses “if I explained myself” and nods when Will says it’s hard to tell people a truth they won’t like. He goes on about Lois Lane being needed and useful even outside a romantic relationship and when he says he “got lucky” he found El he glances at Will – in part, he was using El to find Will back then so that calls the romantic connotation into question.

Even in Lenora, he says “maybe I should have said something, and if I would’ve said that thing” but never specifies what that something is. He could have worded it as “El wanted me to say something to her but I couldn’t do it on the spot, I panicked/I don’t know why and now I regret it” see!!! It would be easy even without telling Will about the ily part but the writing made the narrative choice where Mike never outright tells the viewer that he wants to be able to say those three words during s4, not in conversations where he’s not pressured to do so. Only during the monologue.

I believe that if Will is our unreliable narrator during the whole season, then Mike is meant to be misleading the viewer during the entire season, not just the monologue. Speaking of, it’s easier for me to understand why he sounds so incredibly pained during the entire speech if he knows he’s lying but couldn’t refuse the chance to save El. He was put on the spot by Will himself. It's a tragicomedy of errors.

(Btw, he totally pulled the same “pretend you don’t care” bs with Will when he arrived at California just like at the Snow Ball but secretly paid attention to him anyway.)

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