geniepuppet

[geniepuppet]

too soon?

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[geniepuppet]

Also just to add, maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but i do not want to pay for steven and friend to go around the world eating fancy ass food. I didnt even care about worth it when it was on buzzfeed I definitely dont care about it now lol. I generally dont care for stevens shows in general but i would watch them to support the channel. Im not gonna pay to do that. So that would be 6 dollars a month to what, not watch anything new that month and a half because i dont like the show they are posting at that time??? okay great no thanks.

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[geniepuppet]

Genuinely they should downsize staff, reduce cinematography quality, and relocate outside of Hollywood instead of this otherwise they will have no business at all.

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[geniepuppet]

watcher moving to their own streaming service is such a hilariously bad decision I'm actually in shock. 3mil subscribers averaging 500k views on videos that aren't ghost/mystery files with an audience that skews young and all while the economy is struggling for its life... brother you are going bankruptttt

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[geniepuppet]

Not to have opinions on the whole watcher situation but boy do I have opinions because people are defending them? “You can cancel your other subscription!” “Don’t you want the artists to get paid???” “They clearly need the money 🥺🥺🥺”

First of all 6$ a month may not seem like much but it actually is for a lot of people, especially when you consider that not everybody gets paid in dollars and exchange rates are a killer. Yes I’m willing to pay 6$ or more for something like netflix (even though it admittedly sucks) but it’s because they have a ton of stuff I can actually watch! Watcher has like 3-4 shows and puts out around 4 episodes a month so what the hell are we supposed to be paying for! (Also side note even if I wanted to pay them there’s no way in hell I’d give them my credit card info that’s just asking for getting your info leaked)

Yes I want artists to get paid fairly. But no fan asked for “tv show quality”. Most of their shows could be filmed in their basement and it’d make zero difference. Too many spirit is just two guys drinking in one of their parents’ backyard! I dont want to be paying for Steven’s new tesla! I don’t want to pay for a show that’s literally “how expensive can I make this meal!” They don’t have money problems they have spending problems and shouldn’t make it their audience’s responsibility!

So many comments are like “I wish you guys all the best” no crash and burn greedy bastards

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[geniepuppet]

The problem isnt paying for content. The problem is they havent shown me that they are able to consistently make good content released for longer than a month.

Its that their patreon is mostly empty and held together by people who pay

Its that they only have two or three shows the fanbase would be willing to pay for

Its unclear messaging, its ignoring how fans might feel, its dismissing that if you cant support them they well good fucking luck

Its rolling out a half baked streaming site and still asking for money to fix it

Its making me feel like they dont even care in the video thats supposed to make us excited

Its looking at other independent streaming sites and how long they had to grind for their subbed audience but still feed the free audience and doing it better and cleaner and open

And wat cher didnt think of teaming up? Or feeding the patreon to make it worth it ? No polls outside of those that already pay them? They just alienate their potential user base and run away to their corner and wait for people to crawl to them?

Its not wishing failure. Its seeing the reality of how they handled this.

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[geniepuppet]

genuinely cannot imagine dickriding the watcher guys the way some of you have been. like they made a bad business decision! they alienated their audience! they made jokes about "eating the rich" and then one of their owners turned around and bought a tesla! they said they'd pull all their old content off youtube and then immediately backpedaled and started gaslighting the people who noticed it! they're just guys on the internet, they're not your friends and they are not anti-capitalists. they just want money and they don't care about their primarily young/international/non-wealthy audience.

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[geniepuppet]

i think the fanbase wouldn’t even be this upset if they’d built up to it. why didn’t you enable youtube memberships? i have no doubt people would contribute as much as they can, simply because most people would agree that artists deserve to get paid for their content, and they’d want to support you. we were buying your merch, coming to live shows, subbed to patreon, etc etc. so why’d you jump to paywalling your content before trying other things? and why are you this adamant about production value when no one is watching you for it? do you not know your audience?

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[geniepuppet]

John and Hank Green created one of the longest enduring internet communities and still create killer content while giving their profits to charity but the Watcher boys are willing to fence off their community and only allow in the ones that can afford to contribute to them directly. that’s some bullshit

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[geniepuppet]

It keeps getting worse

If they don’t respond to this TOMORROW they will have eviscerated all the goodwill and love their fans had for them. They should have done it hours ago. Going forward, they either need to consult a professional business manager after this astronomically stupid decision or Steven needs to step down and let someone more competent run the company. No one is paying for another streaming service.

things they could have done:

stressed engagement more (like, comment, share, subscribe, etc.)

promoted their patreon more – there are people in the comments shocked to find out they even had one

youtube memberships (with exclusive emojis!)

given patrons/youtube members exclusive behind-the-scenes videos and/or early release videos

joined nebula & given nebula members exclusive behind-the-scenes videos and/or early release videos

streamed horror games on youtube/streamed horror games on twitch & uploaded the VODs on youtube

decreased the production value & staff required to create videos

any or all of the above

not this

literally anything but this

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[geniepuppet]

A point I'm seeing in a lot of comments on the Watcher video, one that I agree with, is that the fans never asked for this insane level of production value. Nobody asked them to make big expensive travel shows. I don't think most people even care about stuff like intricate sets and top tier filming.

The fans just want to feel like they're hanging out with Ryan and Shane and hearing some funny jokes. Their most watched videos are mostly Ghost Files (which obviously requires a travel budget but not nearly as much as their other shows) and Puppet History, which takes place in a basement.

All the flashy Weird Wonderful World and Tourist Trapped stuff, the big expensive trips, are not what anyone asked for. Ryan even addressed this in the video when he offhandedly mentioned how those shows aren't as popular.

This isn't about needing viewers to contribute in order to keep their favorite shows on air. This is about asking for donations to fund the content they want to make for themselves.

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[geniepuppet]

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[geniepuppet]

Why doesn’t the company move out of LA? Why don’t they downsize production costs and stop making ridiculously expensive shows? Why doesn’t Steven Lim buy a car that isn’t a Tesla? Why don’t Shane and Ryan stop dropping so much money on new ghost-finding gadgets and doodads, and instead use what they’ve already bought to investigate cheaper locations? Why didn’t Watcher do a modicum of research on their market before making a sudden (and idiotic) decision to move themselves behind a paywall? More on this at 3

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[geniepuppet]

I think also that maybe the Watcher guys overestimate the uh, depth and value of their content. Most people watch it not because it's educational or well-presented, but because it's fun. It's comfort content. And comfort content relies on being approachable and easy to access. People who enjoy history will move on to things that are free on Youtube that cover topics in much more depth, even if the videos don't have the same fancy editing or sets. People who like true crime will just watch or listen to the bajillion podcasts that dig so much deeper than their 20-minutes episodes.

The main thing they had going for them was the dynamics and approachability. Prioritising production value and Content isn't going to pull Youtube numbers because that's not what their Youtube audience wanted. So what they're essentially doing is paywalling their dynamics. And well, I'm not paying 6 bucks a month just to access fun banter. Ya dig?

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[geniepuppet]

Okay all my thoughts because some people have been saying that not supporting this change is not supporting artist and creators and as an artist fuck that.

1. Audiences owe you nothing. You have to convince them to engage with your creation not the other way around. This is something both the nonprofit theatre I work with recognizes and huge companies realize. It's just part of life. There are so many talented people in the world making amazing art, videos, music, writings, and on and on, and there's only so much time in the day. I'm not saying you shouldn't know your worth, just that being flippant about how little you care about those who can't pay isn't a good move. On that note...

2. PR is everything. If you haven't made a visible effort to push patreon, channel memberships or other avenues of making money, don't be suprised that your creation that was previously accessible to those without extra cash and to those who can't support foreign subscriptions due either to conversions or because it simply doesn't work, being made private isn't popular. There's a big leap from "We want to have more artistic control" to "We can't afford to make our content accessible to most of our audience," and people are smart enough to see this. You either have to make budget cuts or give into sponsors. This isn't unique to Watcher, it's part of literally every production from broadway, to Hollywood, to YouTube. Unless you can fund it yourself or get viewers to pay(which given how many are already strapped for cash...) that's life.

Not to mention they simply do not have enough followers to make the switch to a paid only site(dropping the first epsiode only on YouTube isn't going to draw people in, they're just going to say "oh why start if I'm not going to see the rest" and not watch) especially not one that is buggy and a security risk. Even if the switch had been supported its not going to end well. The only reason services like nebula and dropout work is because of the large amount of series and creators and the fact those creators still are partly on YouTube so new people are drawn in.

3. As for the price, 6 dollars a month is a not a good starting price for only their content and that's as someone who pays for nebula. I'd be paying the same amount for a fraction of the access to others work. Actually it'd be twice as much. And before someone says "it's only a coffee-" that's for you. Not everyone has your lifestyle. And with every other patreon and subscription service that says the same thing, it all adds up and I simply don't think 60 dollars for 48 videos a year on a subscription basis where you don't get to keep the videos if your situation changes, some of which don't appeal to every viewer is a good move. If you were able to buy physical copies of your favorite series they've made that'd be different, but that's not what this is.

4. I do believe that the employees deserve a livable wage. I also did not hire them. It is not on the viewers that they hired more people than they could afford to. They can charge that much if they want to to try and balance this out. They also shouldn't be suprised if not many can or will sign up. They also don't have to be based in L.A. L.A has ridiculous costs associated with it, and quite honestly it doesn't really add much to the content. I'm not saying they need to move to the middle of nowhere Kansas. Simply that living and basing your studio in a super expensive city and then being suprised money is tight is just weird.

5. Something that occurs to me is that they might get more views if their playlists were better set up. Only some series are given playlists. It'd be easier to find all of the series and binge them if they didn't just show off their more popular shows. Honestly the only draw the streaming site has to me is that the series are actually labeled well.

Do I think the weird ass energy towards Steven is necessary? No. He's not the only one at the company and they're all adults. I actually liked grocery run and homemade, and like to see them back. The parascoial attachment to Ryan and Shane is annoying in people's criticisms, but that doesn't make them completely wrong. If you're going to brand yourself as the anti capalist underdogs you can't get away with being dismissive of your poorer fans. The dissonance is what is causing this backlash and makes you look like hypocrites. I definitely think Steven is turning into the fall guy which is fucked up, his statement and the fact dish granted is one of those shows that make people uncomfortable about wealth flexs doesn't help matters.

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[geniepuppet]

like i'll be honest, steven was never my favorite person to watch. i was fine with the food specific videos but i never loved when he was in other videos. so don't take this as me defending my favorite dude.

there are three people there. even if ryan and shane aren't ceos anymore, they are still founders and company decision makers. steven isn't forcing them to do anything. they are grown men who can make their own decisions and if they hated this That much, they could make the decision to fight back against it or find something else to do. they are content creators in la. it wouldn't be hard for them to do.

just like. i don't like this decision - i think it's stupid, will backfire, and will eradicate a lot of trust fans have. that being said, acting like steven is the Only person making these decisions and that he's forcing poor old ryan and shane like girl be serious. hold All three of them accountable and stop trying to make excuses for grown adults. stop trying to baby ryan and shane.

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[geniepuppet]

OMFG THIS COMMENT. GUISE. THAT LAST SENTENCE IS SO FUCKING RAW

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