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joanna-p · 33 minutes
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really tired of women’s clothes (or rather, “feminine clothes”) being described as “flirty”. like, “a fun, flirty dress for the summer” and it’s a midi length dress with ruffles or some shit. what about clothing is flirty? like i know it’s intended to be a style and not an actual invitation, but it still bothers me & feeds into the whole “what was she wearing” thing
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joanna-p · 33 minutes
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men try not to use misogyny as a confirmation of their "womanhood" challenge (difficulty: impossible)
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joanna-p · 1 day
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Ares is not the protector of women in greek mythology.
He is never presented as such in any source, there is no evidence such a role was ever assigned to him in any account, and as far as I'm aware this popular yet unattested assertion is born from the echo-chambers of tumblr. In fact quite the opposite could be argued. CW for sexual assault.
This baffling claim seems to originate from a sort of shallow examination of the way Ares "behaves in myth", and the following arguments are the most frequently presented:
1. Ares protects his daughter Alkippe from assault, and is therefore morally opposed to rape. (Apollodorus 3.180, Pausanias 1.21.4, Suidas "Areios pagos", attributed to Hellanikos)
Curiously this argument is never applied to, for example: Apollo for defending his mother Leto from Tytios, Herakles for defending Hera from Porphyrion (or his wife Deianeira from Nessos), or Zeus for defending his sister Demeter from Iasion (in the versions where he attacks her), among other examples. The multiple accounts of rape of the previously mentioned figures did not conflict with these stories in greek thought: they're defending family members or women otherwise close to them. This sort of behaviour is not uncommon, even in contemporary times, e.g. a warrior has no ethical problem killing men, but would not want his own family or loved ones to be killed. The same goes here for sexual assault.
2. There are no surviving accounts of Ares sexually assaulting anybody.
The idea that the ancient greeks pictured that, among all the gods, Ares was the only one who shied away from committing rape borders on ridiculous. In this case absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
The majority of surviving records of Ares' unions are presented in a genealogical manner, and do not go into details about the nature of said unions. This is by no means uncommon for most mythographers, where most sexual encounters are presented as such, and details of specifics are to be found elsewhere. However, common motifs that are found in other accounts of rape also appear in stories concerning Ares' relationships, e.g. tropes like shape-shifting/the use of disguises, the victim being a huntress, secrecy, and the disposal of the concieved child, are to be found in the stories of Phylonome and Astyoche respectively:
Φυλονόμη Νυκτίμου καὶ Ἀρκαδίας θυγάτηρ ἐκυνήγει σὺν τῇ Ἀρτέμιδι: Ἄρης δ᾽ ἐν σχήματι ποιμένος ἔγκυον ἐποίησεν. ἡ δὲ τεκοῦσα διδύμους παῖδας καὶ φοβουμένη τὸν πατέρα ἔρριψεν εἰς τὸν Ἐρύμανθο
"Phylonome, the daughter of Nyktimos and Arkadia, was wont to hunt with Artemis; but Ares, in the guise of a shepherd, got her with child. She gave birth to twin children and, fearing her father, cast them into the [River] Erymanthos." (Pseudo-Plutarch, Greek and Roman Parallel Stories, 36)
οἳ δ᾽ Ἀσπληδόνα ναῖον ἰδ᾽ Ὀρχομενὸν Μινύειον, τῶν ἦρχ᾽ Ἀσκάλαφος καὶ Ἰάλμενος υἷες Ἄρηος οὓς τέκεν Ἀστυόχη δόμῳ Ἄκτορος Ἀζεΐδαο, παρθένος αἰδοίη ὑπερώϊον εἰσαναβᾶσα Ἄρηϊ κρατερῷ: ὃ δέ οἱ παρελέξατο λάθρῃ: τοῖς δὲ τριήκοντα γλαφυραὶ νέες ἐστιχόωντο.
"And they that dwelt in Aspledon and Orchomenus of the Minyae were led by Ascalaphus and Ialmenus, sons of Ares, whom, in the palace of Actor, son of Azeus, Astyoche, the honoured maiden, conceived of mighty Ares, when she had entered into her upper chamber; for he lay with her in secret" (Homer, Iliad 2. 512 ff)
In neither of these cases is a verb explicitly denoting rape used, though it is heavily implied by the context. The focus of the action is on the conception of sons, the nature of the interaction is secondary.
Other examples are found among the daughters of the river Asopos, who where (and here there's no confusion) ravished and kidnapped by different gods to different parts of the greek world, where they found local lines through children borne to their abductors and serve as local eponyms. Surviving fragments from Corinna of Tanagra tell:
"Asopos went to his haunts . . from you halls . . into woe . . Of these [nine] daughters Zeus, giver of good things, took his [Asopos'] child Aigina . . from her father's [house] . . while Korkyra and Salamis and lovely Euboia were stolen by father Poseidon, and Leto's son is in possession of Sinope and Thespia . . [and Tanagra was seized by Hermes] . . But to Asopos no one was able to make the matter clear, until . . [the seer Akraiphen reveals to him] 'And of your daughters father Zeus, king of all, has three; and Poseidon, ruler of the sea, married three; and Phoibos [Apollon] is master of the beds of two of them, and of one Hermes, good son of Maia. For so did the pair Eros and the Kypris persuade them, that they should go in secret to your house and take your nine daughters." - heavily fragmented papyrus. Corinna, Fragment 654
"For your [Tanagra's] sake Hermes boxed against Ares." Corinna, Fragment 666
It seems that, similarly to the myths of Beroe or Marpessa, the abducted maiden is fought over by two competing "suitors", and though we can infer that the outcome of the story is that Hermes gets to keep Tanagra, apparently by beating Ares at boxing, we don't actually know what happened or how it happened. In any case, Ares does mate with another daughter of Asopos, Harpina, who bears him Oinomaos according to some versions (Paus. 5.22.6) (Stephanus of Byzantium, Ethnica, A125.3) (Diodorus Siculus, Library 4. 73. 1). There is little reason to suppose this encounter wasn't pictured as an abduction like the rest of her sisters.
The blatant statement that each of his affairs was envisioned as consensual is simply not true.
3. He was worshipped under the epithet Gynaicothoinas "feasted by women"
This was a local cult that existed in Tegea, the following reason is given:
There is also an image of Ares in the marketplace of Tegea. Carved in relief on a slab it is called Gynaecothoenas. At the time of the Laconian war, when Charillus king of Lacedaemon made the first invasion, the women armed themselves and lay in ambush under the hill they call today Phylactris. When the armies met and the men on either side were performing many remarkable exploits, the women, they say, came on the scene and put the Lacedaemonians to flight. Marpessa, surnamed Choera, surpassed, they say, the other women in daring, while Charillus himself was one of the Spartan prisoners. The story goes on to say that he was set free without ransom, swore to the Tegeans that the Lacedaemonians would never again attack Tegea, and then broke his oath; that the women offered to Ares a sacrifice of victory on their own account without the men, and gave to the men no share in the meat of the victim. For this reason Ares got his surname. (Paus. 8.48.4-5)
As emphasised by Georgoudi in To Act, Not Submit: Women’s Attitudes in Situations of War in Ancient Greece (part of the highly recommendable collection of essays Women and War in Antiquity), "it is not necessary to see the operation of an invitation in the bestowal of the epithet Γυναικοθοίνας on Ares". The epithet is ambiguous, and can be translated both as "Host of the banquet of women" or "[He who is] invited to the banquet of women". In any case no act of divine intervention occurs, and the main reason for the women's act of devotion lies principally in recognising their decisive role in the routing of the Lakedaimonians. They invite Ares to the banquet, the men are excluded.
Also this a local epithet that isn't found anywhere else in Greece. As such it would be worth reminding that not every Ares is Gynaicothoinas, in the same way not every Zeus is Aithiopian, not every Demeter Erinys, or not every Artemis of Ephesos.
4. He is the patron god of the Amazons
He was considered progenitor of the Amazons because of their proverbial warlike nature and love of battle, the same reason he was associated with another barbarian tribe, the Thracians. In this capacity he was also appointed as a suitable father/ancestor for other violent and savage characters who generally function as antagonists (e.g. Kyknos, Diomedes of Thrace, Tereos of Thrace, Oinomaos, Agrios and Oreios, Phlegyas, Lykos etc.). Also he was by no means the only god connected with the Amazons (they were especially linked to Artemis, see Religious Cults Associated With the Amazons by Florence Mary Bennett, if only for the bibliography).
Similarly Poseidon was considered patron and ancestor of the Phaiakians mainly because of their mastery over the art of seafaring, and was curiously also credited in genealogies as father to monsters and other disreputable figures.
On another note I have found no sources that claim he taught his amazon daughters how to fight, as I've seen often mentioned (though I admit I'd love to be proven wrong on that point).
Finally, the last reason Ares is never portrayed as a protector of women is because of his divine assignation itself:
The uncountable references to his love of bloodshed and man-slaying don't just stop short of the battlefield, but continue on to the conclusion and intended purpose of most waged wars in antiquity: the sacking of the city. The title Sacker of Cities as an epithet of Ares (though it is by no means exclusive to him) is encountered numerous times and in different variations (eg. τειχεσιπλήτης or πτολίπορθος), and the meaning behind the epithet is plain. Though it is hard to summarise without being reductionist, the sacking of a city entails the plundering of all its goods, the slaughtering of its men, and the sistematic raping and enslavement of the surviving women (for the most famous depictions see The Iliad, The Trojan Women or The Women of Trachis, to name a small few of the literary references). There is little need to emphasise that war as concieved of in ancient greece, especifically the aspects of war Ares is most often associated with, directly entail sexual violence against women as one of the main concerns. The multiple references to Ares being an unloved or disliked deity are because of this, because war is horrifying (not because his daddy is a big old meany who hates him for no reason, Zeus makes very clear the motive for his contempt in the Iliad (5. 889-891): "Do not sit beside me and whine, you double-faced liar. To me you are most hateful of all gods who hold Olympos. Forever quarreling is dear to your heart, wars and battles.")
Ares was only the protector of women inasmuch as he could be averted or repelled:
"There is no clash of brazen shields but our fight is with the war god, a war god ringed with the cries of men, a savage god who burns us; grant that he turn in racing course backward out of our country’s bounds, to the great palace of Amphitrite or where the waves of the thracian sea deny the stranger safe anchorage. Whatsoever escapes the night at last the light of day revisits; so smite him, Father Zeus, beneath your thunderbolt, for you are the lord of the lightning, the lightning that carries fire. (Oedipus Tyrannos, 190-202)
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All that being said, this is a post about Ares as attested and percieved in ancient sources, made especifically in response to condecending and self-victimising statements about how "uhmmm, actually, in greek mythology Ares was a super-feminist himbo who was worshipped as the protector of women and was hated by his family for no reason, you idiot". It is factually incorrect. HOWEVER, far be it from me to tell anyone how they have to interact with this deity. Be it your retellings, your headcannons or your own personal religious attachments and beliefs towards Ares, those are your own provinces and prerogatives, and not what was being discussed here at all (I personally love retellings where Ares and Aphrodite goof around, or art where he plays with his daughters, or headcannons that showcase his more noble sides, etc.)
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I've seen that other people on tumblr have made similar posts, the ones I've seen were by @deathlessathanasia and @en-theos . I have no idea how to link their posts, but they're really good so go check them out on their pages!
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joanna-p · 2 days
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Not the realization that Tiresias repeating his prophecy in No Longer You is him desperately trying to get Odysseus to heed his warnings after seeing the monster in him during his angry outburst of “WHO?!?!?”. The prophet knowing he can’t offer any reassurances that things will turn out alright, so all he can do is try to get Odysseus to understand what he’s already said.
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joanna-p · 2 days
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Women were never created from men's ribs, not ever. It is HE who emerges from HER womb. Framing the father as the life giver is a patriarchal lie, it's not true.
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joanna-p · 2 days
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ngl im SICK of seeing all the men on tiktok cryin about how women would rather see a bear than a man in the woods. it’s so infuriating watching them whine like piss babies about how they’re “seen as worse than a wild animal”.
like damn, could u imagine?? could u IMAGINE being seen as less than human by the other sex?
also that one guy that made a response tryna pull a “well ACTUALLY” by saying his mom got attacked by a bear ? yet apparently his mom did some reddit qna where she said something implying she would still rather see a bear than a man (idk if that’s true, but). could u IMAGINE the man u carried for 9 months using ur story from when YOU were attacked by a bear to make a “not all men” argument at other WOMEN !!! not even considering to ask YOU for your opinion. *
these brain dead wastes of flesh n bone gotta make sure they spew out their opinions regardless of how fucking irrelevant and unimportant they are.
* the mom can feel however she wants not tryna say she has to feel or be a certain way or anything, i’m just tryna show the idiocy of the man
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joanna-p · 2 days
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I'm still not over Odysseus' little "Polites..." when Polites showed up, eSPECIALLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT HE TENDS TO HIT THE HIGHER NOTES WHEN HE'S EMOTIONAL. HIM SEEING HIS BEST FRIEND AGAIN MADE HIM WANT TO CRY (me too bro)
ALSO the fact that Jorge's IRL mom voiced Anticlea gave that part so much more depth and emotion to it, I love how much of a genius Jorge is
I KNOW RIGHT?!?!? (Jorge is totally a genius)
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joanna-p · 3 days
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we need more slurs for men other than moids, scrotes, and y chromies.
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joanna-p · 3 days
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“ventured too far” just feels like something a mother would say about her little kid. Odysseus is his mother’s baby always and forever, he just ventured a little bit aways, surely he’ll be back by his mother’s side soon. right where he should be. soon.
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joanna-p · 3 days
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"Females can't help but display their sexuality" - you mean you can't look at parts of our normal, natural bodies without sexually objectifying them. Because you are porn-addled.
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joanna-p · 3 days
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SPOILER
The most devastating part is, unlike in The Odyssey, Epic Odisseus doesn't get to talk to the souls. They're just there, talking to themselves, and he can't do anything but look.
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joanna-p · 3 days
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Polites died believing that the world is kind, and yet his death contributes to Odysseus deciding to become a monster. Absolutely devastating
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joanna-p · 3 days
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They also see the shark as a trans thing bc a woman had her arm bitten off by a shark and she is known for speaking against tims in female exclusive sports. Ever since that i've seen tims use sharks as a trans thing
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imagine how deranged you have to be to wish for a disabled woman to be killed by a wild animal just because she said that men can't compete in the women's category. don't these people feel shame?
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joanna-p · 5 days
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One of the things that makes arguing with men so much more draining than arguing with women is the unequal distribution of credibility and contribution.
Somehow, whenever I argue with men, it always falls upon me to both prove my own claims, and to disprove his, while he does neither; his only obligation seemingly to dole out whatever ungrounded assertions he conjures up on the spot. Somehow, it is always wordlessly established that anything I say is false until proven true, while anything he says is true until proven false.
This same dynamic happened again over on tiktok, when a man claimed women are just as violent as men. Automatically, almost as if by muscle memory, I offered up the usual statistics on male depravity: men constituting 99% of rapists, 99% of mass shooters, 98% of killers, 95% of serious domestic abusers. And his only response was to say those statistics were wrong. No elaboration; wrong simply because he said so.
I already knew how the entire conversation would pan out: I’d give him my source, he’d find a reason to discredit the source, then I’d scour the internet to find a source that suited his standards, which he’d inevitably find a reason to discredit too.
So instead I simply said, “Prove the statistics are wrong.” And that was the only thing I responded with henceforth: prove it, prove I’m wrong, prove you’re right. Thus reversing the dynamics and positing that anything I said was true unless he demonstrated otherwise; unduly putting all the onus on him while I did nothing other than decide whether he was convincing me of claims thoroughly enough—and if he wasn’t, it just meant I was winning, of course.
He blocked me, and so far so have all the other men I’ve used this approach on. I don’t know whether it’s because they couldn’t actually disprove my claims or because they couldn’t stand to be treated the same way they treat women in debates. But I think more women should do this. Stop wasting energy proving your points to men, and start making them prove theirs to you.
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joanna-p · 5 days
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"B*tch and C*nt aren't misogynistic slurs, everybody uses them all the time!"
Okay hear me out: misogyny is also everywhere, all the time
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joanna-p · 6 days
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If you only knew how disgusting it is to look at the media with a male gaze, it is especially disgusting to watch how men see women. Even before I studied radfem, when I consumed content from men, I was uncomfortable with how they see women. In books, movies, anime, songs from men, women are always objectified, they are so unrealistic that they look like a fantasy, not a real woman.
In short, cultural separation is necessary for our mental health, so that we see realistic women in the media, and not the fantasies of men.
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joanna-p · 6 days
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