#'oh duh I forgot this really obvious part of the dynamic'

[liesonthefloordramatically]

sorry if this is a weird ask, but i was thinking of jolymes today and was wondering what you think attracts jolyne to hermes/what she loves about her? (though i absolutely love them together, it feels easier to come up with answers for the other way around, and i've realized that all of my favourite jolymes fics are written from hermes' POV) (you're one of my favourite writers for them (and foolymes) so i figured i'd ask!)

Anon, I am SO sorry to be answering this uhhhh 3+ months after you asked--the semester started and I low-key died and am still kind of dead but HERE WE ARE!!! 3+ MONTHS LATER!!!! And I maybe have answers???

I realized that I've only written one fic that's definitely from Jolyne's PoV ("Contact" is...either alternating or semi-omniscient--definitely not what I normally write) which I WILL fix someday (when I have more than zero energy and my やる気 returns from the war). Anyway, some scattered thoughts, with the caveats that 1. I feel squidgy writing "proper" meta and generally am much better at conveying thoughts about characters via fic and 2. what is attraction? we just don't know. But HERE WE GO:

Hermes is just like...way more prepared than Jolyne. Not only in the "knows what she's in for when she gets to prison" way, but also Hermes tends to be a lot more...deliberate, especially in the fights she picks. (Thinking about Kiss of Love and Revenge, as I always am.) I love Jolyne, but her brain is usually moving half a second in front of her body, whereas Hermes definitely can and does plan ahead. (Some fics cast Hermes as "the stupid one," but she is absolutely not.) Competence can be VERY attractive.

Hermes's loyalty and protectiveness. I feel like this is an obvious one, but the fact that Hermes immediately sees Jolyne and goes, "oh, this kid has no idea what she's in for" and tries to help in whatever limited way would make an impression on Jolyne! And the fact that she again IMMEDIATELY decides to help Jolyne when she goes searching for Jotaro's disc. Also the fact that Hermes TRUSTS Jolyne--deferring to her decision re: trusting F.F., for example. When Hermes decides to care about someone, she is dedicated (in a way that Jolyne is probably noooooot used to, given her life experience up to this point, and probably finds both amazing and a little overwhelming).

I feel like I have sort of written about this sideways a couple of times, but I think that Jolyne sees Hermes's loyalty to Gloria (when she eventually finds out about it) both as something admirable and as something that she can't quite grok. (Jolyne also doesn't really understand their relationship because Hermes won't/can't explain a lot of it, which doesn't help.) (Sorry I am thinking about Hermes & Gloria always. Join me in the pit.)

Hermes has had a pretty wildly different life arc and life experiences than Jolyne--I don't know if that's attractive, per se, but it is definitely something that both intrigues Jolyne and winds up being a gap in her understanding of Hermes. But also it means that there's definitely an extent to which Hermes is a LOT more mature than Jolyne in some respects at the start--although Jolyne catches up along the way.

Related to that point, Hermes is MUCH more settled into herself/knows ("knows") who she is and what she wants than Jolyne at the beginning of the arc. And I do think that that winds up changing over the course of the arc, but that's another thing that Jolyne would definitely notice: the extent to which she is very much still growing into herself/figuring out who she is in the world whereas Hermes is Certain She Knows Who She Is. Again: people who are self-confident can be very attractive! Especially when you're not quite sure of yourself. I think this is also maybe a queer thing, where you see someone who is very comfortable being themself and you're like, "oh dang." (There is a reason that I tend to write Hermes as MUCH more settled into her queer identity than Jolyne.)

she's hot. I feel like that's obvious but I will say it. buff girl hot

traumabonding. it's a thing.

...hopefully that's enough to get you started because writing meta makes my blood run backward.

(oh my god it's so obvious that I'm ace reading this, I am so sorry, there's a reason that all my revision notes for ship fics start with "what is attraction? we just don't know" or "make them actually attracted to each other")

#ask Queenie #truly a miracle that I have ever managed to write ship fic that was convincing to anyone wwww #anyway I reserve the right to write Jolyne PoV fics in 1-5 business years and be like #'oh duh I forgot this really obvious part of the dynamic' #I shouldn't find writing pure meta as anxiety-provoking as I do but there's something about the confines of a fic #that gives you a lot more freedom to like. demonstrate your point rather than being like 'my thesis is...' #parallelism palooza: the journey

[bigskydreaming]

Batfandom’s favorite word to use is “adopted.” And I don’t mean that in a good way, but in a ‘nah, this is actually kinda obnoxious’ way?

Like, 90% of fics and headcanons in Batfandom flat out refuse to use the words ‘father,’ ‘brother(s),’ ‘sister’ or ‘son(s),’ without the qualifier ‘adopted’ always, always, ALWAYS attached to the front of said words. Like, endlessly. Over and over. Not just once, early on, to establish the specific nature of the family relationships, but like....this sledgehammer insistence on bringing that point home. Each. And. Every. Time. A. Familial. Relationship. Is. Described. Ever.

Sorry to be cranky about it, I know people don’t mean any harm by it, and like, I’m not saying its offensive. That’s not the right word IMO, but its definitely....grating? And just to be clear, I don’t pretend I’m speaking for everyone who’s adopted or from adopted families, I’m sure plenty of people who fit that description have different takes on this than me. BUUUUT I also know for a fact that I am not the only person this bugs in a big way. I’ve had this convo over the years with a lot of other fans I know who are adopted. And its not just Batfandom either, its every fandom with central adoptive relationships, like Thor and Loki, etc. Its just especially jarring in Batfandom because there’s so many different adoptive relationships front and center, so this pops up like...EVERYWHERE.

Idk, like....I’d just ask that writers please consider WHY they feel the qualifier ‘adopted/adoptive’ is a necessary addition every time the label of father/son/brother is used in a fic. What they think it adds, what they feel it describes about the relationship that’s different from any other father/son/brother relationship. Because I do think that most people (at least those not from adopted families themselves) do it without thinking about it. It seems just like another descriptor, like its addition is just a level of specificity that’s like, slightly more accurate than JUST father/son/brother......its just. In my experience, and that of most other adopted kids/relatives of adopted kids I’ve spoken with personally....that’s not really how it works?

Its about context, is the thing. How a thing is framed. When used just initially, like when establishing the exact nature of family dynamics, sure, in that sense its an accurate descriptor that lends an additional level of specificity to family relationships. It describes how this particular family formed, how it came to be. But AFTER that’s been established....that qualifier of adopted tacked onto every family label....its no longer establishing anything further. Instead, now its just perpetuating the idea that the nature of the family relationship itself is inherently different, BECAUSE of how it was formed.

Its a subtle distinction, but its very much a real and definite distinction. When first used, ‘adopted’ describes a family origin. Used over and over, ‘adopted’ describes a family that’s somehow wholly different from non-adopted families, BECAUSE that specific family origin is seen as superseding and overlaying every other aspect of the family and its inter-dynamics. You see what I’m saying? And its that latter part that grates, because...no? That’s not....that’s not nearly the omnipresent thing that I think a lot of people seem to take for granted it is?

Again, maybe its different for other adopted families, but like.....okay. So, in my case, my mom’s technically my adopted mom, I have a different bio mom that I haven’t seen since I was ten, my older sister has the same bio parents as me and my two younger siblings are adopted with no biological relation to each other or to anyone else in our family, though unlike me and my sister were adopted at birth. For as long as my mom’s been my mom....I barely ever referred to my mom as anything other than my mom. It usually didn’t occur to me to use qualifiers when describing her, because like, she was who I saw as my mom. I mean, she’s literally my mom. That’s literally what that word adopted in front of the label ‘mother’ means. Whether you include it or not, the mother part remains true. 

And in fact, describing her as my adopted mom wasn’t even like, an establishing qualifier I always included when first talking about my family to someone who didn’t know our history. It was usually more kinda....a tenth conversation kind of clarification because it was more an afterthought than anything else? Like kinda a belated realization when they looked at me confused at something I just said, like...’oh yeah, see technically my mom is my adopted mom, and when I said ‘my mom’ there just now I was actually talking about my bio mom, totally different thing. Like technically I have two, but only one really matters most of the time so its not worth mentioning to like, everyone I meet, you know?’ That sort of thing. If anything, I was more likely to use the qualifier in regards to my birth mom, the one I didn’t live with. Like I’d say, this is my mom when talking about my mom, as in my adopted mom, and I’d refer to my birth mom as just that, as my birth mom or my bio mom.

And my siblings and I tended to describe ourselves as adopted siblings more upfront, at least when introducing ourselves and our familial relationship to someone new...but that was less about us seeing us our sibling relationship as being different from non-adopted families, and more just like...a necessary avoidance of bullshit? LOL, because I mean, its kinda obvious that my siblings and I aren’t biologically related. I’m white, my little sister is Vietnamese, my little brother’s indigenous Mexican. We tended to lead with “this is my sister/brother, we’re adopted’, but mostly because like.....full offense, but people are kinda dumb? *Shrugs* If we just said ‘this is my sister and this is my brother’ and just left it at that, people would nine out of ten times like....stutter and get all squinty-eyed and confused and be all...what...how...because lol, idk, apparently its a hugely hard leap to figure out oh hey, maybe adoption is a thing here? 

(And also just FYI in general, it was always just annoying because like, even if you don’t ‘get’ HOW two seemingly unrelated people can be related and all they say when introducing themselves is ‘we’re brother and sister’, like.....you’re not actually owed an in depth explanation as to omg how did this strange phenomenon come to be. And the entitlement so many people we encountered growing up, where like....they felt they were owed our life stories upon meeting us just once, simply because they Didn’t Understand and somehow this equated to But They NEEDED To Understand, because...Reasons....like, no. You don’t actually need to understand how two people are related if they don’t feel like providing you with the full context. Either take them at face value or don’t, you don’t get to be a dick and demand a full accounting of their legal and symbolic relationships just so you can like....validate this and be all okay yeah, that checks out, I’ll allow it. LOL. No? Your validation of our relationship is not required, nor is your understanding of it, get over yourselves. So just. Like. Don’t be Those Guys. If you meet people who introduce themselves as family and the exact nature of that family relationship isn’t immediately obvious or seems somewhat confusing like....just...deal? They’ll tell you more if they want you to know more, and if they don’t tell you more they probably feel you know everything you need to know and that’s literally their call to make, so....yeah).

Idk. Like, due to the age differences in our family, my little sister and I were the only ones who overlapped in attending the same schools at the same time, just different grade levels. And we used to have this bit where any time someone new stumbled while grasping the fact that we were brother and sister, and they did that Brain Malfunction, Processing Error glitch face while they tried to compute Asian sister, white brother, how does that even work....so like, at some point we just started doing this thing where any time we saw that Look, my little sister would launch into this painfully earnest explanation of how so, “okay, our dad’s Vietnamese and our mom’s white, and I got all the Vietnamese genes and my brother here got all the white genes,” and I would just keep a totally straight face and nod along, backing her up, and you could literally see them falling for it for a good minute or so before they realized oh hey, they’re totally just bullshitting me. And then eventually we got told to cut it out because teachers were complaining about looking dumb in front of other students when we did that, which, well duh that’s cuz you were, dumbasses BUT I DIGRESS.

But point is.....I honestly do not know many (if any) adopted families who go around making a point to emphasize the adopted part of their family relationships any and every time they come up, the way most fiction tends to depict adopted characters doing? Once we established to a person that yes, we’re adopted, we didn’t ever feel a need to re-emphasize that or re-establish that same point any time after that. If they idk, forgot or got confused again or whatever, I mean...not our problem, you know? You get one explanation, if you still don’t get it after that, you’re probably not gonna get it anyway because its not like....rocket science. Was pretty much our stance.

And so okay, full disclosure, since anyone who’s followed me for some time has heard me talk about not really having a relationship with my family anymore....like yeah, its true, but because of a whole host of reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with anyone’s adoption status. I mean, I basically hate my parents’ guts and have for a long time, but they’re still my parents, biological and adopted ones alike. And I love my siblings, we’re just unfortunately not close anymore because of all kinds of baggage that got heaped on us that there was really no way to deal with gracefully, look there are reasons I project on the Batfam and identify with that source material, lmao. 

Again though, my point is.....even at the best of times, my family was crazy dysfunctional, much like the Batfamily is.....but even at the worst of times, literally nobody in my family was ever going around insisting on making a distinction about most of us not being biologically related, you know? That’s just....not a thing, IME. Like, family’s kinda all or nothing. You’re either family, or you’re not. The how of it only really matters if you’re hashing out something where that’s specifically relevant, otherwise, not so much because I mean....if it was that easy to make a distinction about how your family is only kinda technically sorta your family, it’d be a hell of a lot easier to just...walk away, you know? Like, even when you flat out hate members of your family, there’s not really a lot of confusion on whether or not you actually consider them family. As complicated as your family dynamic might be, people aren’t usually looking for places to add in that additional complication of ‘mmm but are we reeeeeeally even family, technically?’

So all of that plays into why its so jarring to see writers so insistently and repeatedly emphasize the ‘adopted’ part of Batfamily relationships, as though its like the most important aspect of their entire family dynamic...the be all and end all, the thing EVERYTHING inevitably traces back to, in every fight, in every dynamic, etc. And yeah, I do think people who aren’t adopted or from blended families themselves should maybe put a little more thought into what’s going through their head when they emphasize the adopted part of a family dynamic, like why they fixate on it as the most defining aspect or criteria of it. Because its really not nearly as reflective of reality as the sheer overwhelming SAMENESS of how often its written that way would suggest. Again, just speaking in my experience and that of those I’ve had this fandom conversation with, over the years.

Like, any way you write them, the Batfamily is dysfunctional as hell and always will be. But bottom line, there are some not that great implications underlying the....default assumption, that this dysfunctionality all stems from or inevitably traces back to that ‘adoptive’ qualifier. Have Dick or Jason or Tim or Damian flat out hating each other’s guts at times, there’s certainly canon to support it, and sure, insecurity as to their individual places in their family is always going to be at least a PART of it, but like....being insecure about your place in your family isn’t exactly an experience unique to adopted members of families, you know? But the way the Batfamily is usually written certainly seems to treat that as the takeaway, and again, I’m not sure offensive is the way I’d describe that, but it most definitely is grating. And it never fails to pull me right out of a story and like, moan dramatically at the heavens “oh my god, whyyyyyy, why do so many writers think we’re all just...totally unaware that these kids are all adopted and need to remind themselves and each other and us of that every other paragraph’. 

Mostly because I’m dramatic like that, but also because its annoying too. Like....we get it, dudes. This is not brand new information. Its okay. You can refer to Bruce as just ‘their father’ or to their brothers or Cass as just ‘their brothers and sister’. You will not have like...lied, or anything.

Anyway. Those are my 6 am thoughts on the Batfam, fandom in general, and how you really only need to use the word ‘adopted’ like...once per relationship per fic. That’s really all it takes? The additional 674 mentions of adoption are kinda....gratuitous.

[lollytea]

I have a three hour class coming up, so naturally, I need to give you something that will take you three hours to write to make it fair. Gimme all of them for either Satin Diamond or Jazzle, your choice.

Idk enough about Puzzle to do ALL of these about Jazzle so I went with the sparkles.

1: Who spends almost all their money on the other?

Now I’ve said that Guy is a HUUUUUGE impulse buyer who would probably throw money at whatever remotely reminded him of Satin. But I also imagine Satin as the type to spend MORE on stuff for Guy.

Just because while he’ll buy anything that holds his attention long enough, she’s more focused on the quality. If it’s expensive, its good. All shit that goes on her boy gotta be designer and she is hellbent on dressin him pretty.

So Satin. Its Satin.

2: Who sleeps in the other’s lap?

Guy. Whenever he has a tight schedule, he’s either working or napping cuz damn son hes exhausted. But the thing is, that leaves him with very little time to spend with Satin. So sleeping in her lap is the best he can get.

Meanwhile, my girl has a way better sleep endurance than he does. She can pull off an all-nighter and still seem perfectly composed the next day. Satin’s fuckin incredible.

3: Who walks around the house half-naked and who yells at them to put on some clothes?

who tf u think

4: Which one tells the other not to stay up all night and which one stays up all night anyway?

Guy is often begging Satin to get some sleep. But listen, if she’s in the zone, you cant stop her. Yes, Guy, she’s aware its 2am.

5: Which one tries to make food for the other but burns it all by accident and which one tells them that it’s okay and makes them both cookies?

Neither Satin or Chenille have much experience in cooking. They were pretty spoiled and never had to lift a finger in any kind of housework during their childhood and teenage life. Both of them have had to learn since they moved out but they gotta stick to the basic stuff.

Bless her, Satin’s heart was definitely in the right place. But what she tried to cook was gourmet which she sure as hell was not ready for yet.

Guy’s childhood ran more on a chore wheel kinda thing. He and his siblings had to take turns cooking dinner each week so like he’s a lot more acquainted with it. But is he proud of Satin’s obvious efforts, that’s his girl! You did amazing for your first try!

Tbh he probably tries to eat some of it just to be like “Nonono its fine, we can totally eat this for di-” *Chokes and has to spit it out* “Yeah ok imma make some cookies. You did a good job tho I love you”

6: Which one reads OTP prompts and says “Oh that’s us!” and which one goes “Eh, not really”?

At a petstore, Guy points at two lizards lying on top of eachother “That one’s me and that one’s you.”

“There’s a fine selection of squeaky toys over here and I'm going to pick one just to whack you with.”

7: Which one constantly wears the other’s clothes?

I mean Guy wears the clothes Satin MAKES so

I'm sure he’s tried on her actual clothes a couple times tho

8: Which one spends all day running errands and which one says “You remembered [thing], right?”

Satin: “Okay okay, so it was a good day. A really good day. A productive day. Bought the groceries for dinner tonight, made the phone calls, picked up the dry-cleaning, went to the post office, got the car fixed, vacuumed the living room-”

Guy: “Aww baby, that’s great. Hey, where’s Jade?”

Satin: “Where’s who now?”

Guy: “Our 2 year old son? You-you picked him up from day-care, right?”

*Sounds of Satin grabbing her keys and tripping out the front door*

Guy: “.....was that a yes orrrr?”

9: Which one drives the car and which one gives them directions?

Guy cant read maps so he drives. Also if they have a kid (or theyre babysitting the other kids) Satin’s better at telling them to behave so its better if she’s not behind the wheel.

10: Which one does the posing while the other one draws?

Guy poses, Satin draws. Its like part of their whole model/designer dynamic. Duh

11: If they were about to rob a museum, which one does backflips through lasers and which one is strolling behind with a bag of chips?

Guy backflips, Satin has chips

12: Which one of your OTP overdoes it on the alcohol and which one makes the other stop drinking?

After the first article of clothing is removed, Satin is forced to confiscate Guy’s glass.

“Sweetheart, listen. We cant afford to do this again. We cant go back to jail.”

13: Which one likes to surprise the other with a lot of small random gifts?

They both do ofc

14: Which one keeps accidentally using the other’s last name instead of their own?

Satin did when she was really little but Guy hadn't the foggiest clue why she kept doing in. He just piped up with “That's not your last name, it’s mine, silly!” Then proceeded to tell her what her last name was in case she forgot.

She did start calling herself Satin Diamond a few years before they got married. Like it wasn't his real last name so it didn’t matter much. Plus it sounded classy as hell. You wouldn't wanna fuck with a lady called Satin Diamond.

15: Which one screams about the spider and which one brings the spider outside?

Neither of them are huge fans of spiders but as Guy always had to suck it up and take spiders out for his little sister’s sake, he’s a lot more equipped to dealing with it.

16: Which one gives the other their jacket?

Satin often doesn't wear jackets so if she cold, Guy’s on that shit in an instant

17: Who keeps getting threatened by the other’s overprotective older sibling?

They both got a pretty good relationship with eachothers siblings. Guy’s brothers are all lovable nerds in their heart so they adopt Satin immediately

Meanwhile Chenille is like a sister to Guy so like she knows he’ll cherish Satin with all his heart but like. Like a sister. Tell me Chenille hasn't blown her top several time cuz her annoying little brother/her sister’s boyfriend is being a shit again

18: Who’s the first one to admit they have feelings for the other?

Guy probably. Their relationship kinda develops from friends to occasional flirting to more recurring flirting to constant flirting and like Guy is almost CERTAIN they’re on the same page. Orrrrr flirty might just be a budding aspect of Satin’s personality because hey, it does suit her very well.

Eventually he just gets confused and impatient and blurts out like “HEY ARE WE DOING WHAT WE’RE THINK WE’RE DOING CUZ I LIKE YOU A LOT AND-”

19: How good would your OTP be at parenting?

Pretty good, considering they weren’t really ready to be parents. The whole nine months was like last minute cramming for a test. They read so many baby books my fuckin god.

But no Satin’s a natural mom. Not as high energy as Poppy and a lot more subdued but still very caring and considerate. She’s calm and logical when helping her kid deal with problems and makes sure he always feel comfortable when talking to her. Jade is REALLY close with his momma.

Also if he gets caught sneaking out at night, he’s shish kabob. But he respects and understands that. His mom is the best person in the world. He just wouldn't dare fuck with her

Guy is also a very devoted father and tends to act as the sillier parent. His relationship with kid can be best described as “Lovingly argumentative.” But no matter, how much he makes fun of his Dad, Jade is probably his biggest fan. He knows the man’s complete filmography by heart and aspires to be an actor too. (Jade cant act for shit but ssssh he’ll change his career choice when he’s older)

But yeah, Guy spent years as his acting coach and tried so hard too because he personally believed his boy could do anything. Turns out he couldn't but ehhh, its the thought that counts. Guy loves Jade to bits and vice versa.

20: Which one types with perfect grammar and which one types using numbers as letters?

Neither of them use perfect grammar but Satin is most definitely the number thing. Guy is not.

21: Who gets attacked by a bully and who protects them?

I dunno if either of them are the type to get bullied. At least in the case of Satin, she just doesn't take crap. But I guess in the case of Guy, who’s just so unashamedly himself, he might piss off a few other kids with that toxic masculinity mind-set. It probably doesn't happen often but if it ever did, Satin would bite their heads off. She aint here for this bullshit.

22: Who makes the bad puns and who makes a pained smile every time the other makes a pun?

Guy: *puns*

Satin: “You’re doing amazing sweetie” (I imagine death so much, it feels like a memory.)

23: Who comes home from work to see that the other one bought a puppy?

Hear me out. Guy is the impulse buyer, which is why it shocks everyone when Satin is the one to buy the puppy. She was going through an emotional week ok?? Leave her alone

Guy actually has to be the voice of reason here because babe do we have time for a dog idk if we can do this

They end up keeping it and tbh they are TOTALLY the type of people to call themselves the dog’s mommy and daddy. They’re those people fite me

24: Which one gives the other a piggyback ride when they’re tired?

Satin doesn't get tired easily but she wears pinchy shoes a lot so Guy gives piggybacks when she needs it

25: Which one competes in some sort of activity and which one does the overzealous cheering?

I need to tattoo “Guy is Satin’s biggest fan” to my gotdamn forehead

26: Who takes a selfie when the other one falls asleep on their shoulder?

Satin. Guy hates candid photos so fuckin much so like nobody has any pictures of him laughing or sleeping or just walking around with no makeup on.

Except for Satin. Satin has like a billion. Guy just doesn't know about them cuz she knows he’d make her delete them.

27: Which one would give the other a makeover if they asked?

I mean Satin DID give Guy a makeover when he asked. You don't think the legendary Guy Diamond look was a one man job, do you? Nah, the twins helped create the icon.

Hell, his first experience with makeup was Satin hiding him the girls bathroom stall when they were like 12 and covering up the acne on his chin after she caught him getting upset over it.

28: Which one owns a pet that the other is absolutely terrified of?

Look if Satin ever gets a snake, Guy aint gonna be pleased

29: Which one holds the umbrella over both of them when it rains?

Okay but listen to me. Guy makes a big deal every time his hair gets wet. He hates rain. He hates it so fuckin much.

One time when they were teenagers, they agreed to meet at the other end of town to see a movie. Ofc theres a downpour and Guy’s standing with his umbrella at the bustop, waiting for Satin’s bus to show up. But once she steps out, she looks frazzled af, clearly having not expected the rain.

So its been a long day and Satin is pacing back and forth, unintentionally splashing puddled as she rambles about an unfair detention she received, about Chenille stealing her hairdryer, about her homework not making any sense.

The rain suddenly stops pelting her head and a shadow falls over her frame. She turns around to find him with his arm outstretched and his umbrella looming over her.

Guy blinks, confused as she stares at him in shock, his hair a soaking mess. “What?

And Satin is just internally “Imma marry him. I stg imma marry this loser.”

30: If your OTP went on vacation, where would they go and what would they do? Who would take the pictures?

Wherever there’s city lights and rooftop penthouses. Theatres, restaurants and glitzy ballrooms. They live for the night glow. Tbh take them to Paris. Let them dance under the Eiffel Tower at midnight. Tell me that isn't the pinnacle of romanticism.

Also Satin takes the pictures. She’s the better photographer between them. Guy gets too eager and so many of his pics are fuzzy

[serenagaywaterford]

6) a flip of the dime. The nasty parts were always there, but he concealed/controlled them. Maybe bc said parts wouldn't exactly make him endearing to others? Anyhow, your interpretation makes him quite the interesting antagonist/villain, so I'm rolling with it, lol. /// There was another thing that was bugging me about S2: the baby's name. Obviously, Serena chose Nic(h)ole as a "fuck you" to Fred. But June in the finale? Of course, she stuck to it for Nick's sake, but also bc she recognized

7) Serena’s selfless (well, if you can call it that) act. Thoughts on this? /// As for your older responses, I forgot to describe what an epiphany it was for me to realize the significance of Serena’s use of the word “rape” for the first time. The anger I felt after 2x10 blinded me to the VERY OBVIOUS connection between her realization in 2x10 and her outburst in 2x11. (Silly me!) Imagine how much more intense that fight would have been if they included the marital rape. I remember a writer

8) that June didn’t kill Serena, bc she actually felt sorry for her in that episode. (Ngl, June’s kindness baffles me at times.) I knew that she wasn’t gonna do it of course, but it was 50/50 whether I wanted her to shoot them or not. /// Something I have not addressed so far is how lukewarm I found their explanation for June getting away with all the shit she does. Well, she’s no Janine (who loses an eye) or Emily (who gets mutilated), but still. Like you said, Serena and Fred might get away

9) get away with a lot more bc of their privilege, but June? Hm. // I’ll start quoting later (or maaaybe tomorrow).

———–

I always thought that was a really weird sort of thing for June to do. And it seems to be entirely because of Serena? Like, it was Holly, Holly, Holly. Even when she was talking to Nick. Then she has the exchange with Serena, and suddenly she adopts Serena’s supreme dickmove of a babyname? 

And I LIKED Holly. It meant something. Nichole (I HATE THAT SPELLING SFM LMAO) means nothing to June? Can you imagine the convo: 

“Mommy, why am I called Nichole?”

“Well, baby, you see, your Daddy’s name is Nick, so the lady that stole you decided to name you after him to eternally piss off her husband who she clearly hates and wanted him to be reminded that he’s impotent every time he looks at you.”

Like, on the one hand, Serena is fucking brilliant and it just shows the extent of her hatred for Fred. But then it’s kinda shitty to use a child as a pawn in that.

Then again, maybe there’s another reason Serena chose that name? I know there’s like a whole history about St. Nicholas and his role as a patron saint of childless couples, or something. (I can’t recall exactly rn). And there was something about St. Nicolette and babies. (Which is where the names Nicole and Collette come from.) Something like she raised a dead baby back to life. So, I guess, at a stretch perhaps that was her inspiration? I doubt it, knowing Serena. LOL.

It’s really curious June’s decision though. Despite EVERYTHING Serena’s done, June just wipes it clean and names her fucking baby after Serena’s choice? Maybe she was trying to retain the memory of Nick for Nichole? I dunno. And not only that, but she seemed 100% genuine when she said that farewell blessing and held Serena’s hand (again). 

I dunno, June’s own preoccupation with Serena is something I don’t truly understand but she clearly thinks there’s some odd connection or something. It’s funny cos I was reading a review about S2 and June’s choices in the finale, and her constant support of Serena despite ALL the reasons not to, and lemme see if I can find it… 

 Nah. I can’t. Anyway, it was something about how we all know June’s going back for Hannah, but this writer thought June was also going back for Serena.

I’m not convinced about that tbh, but I can see the argument cos June is strangely protective and compassionate towards Serena considering. I just have a sinking feeling that the show is gonna play that “Oops, Serena is evil again!! SHE WAY MAD JUNE GIVE BABBY AWAY trolololol!!!!” and make her despicable in order to get Nicole back. If that is the case, I’m gonna roll my eyes right outta my head. I have no issue with Serena having regrets, tbh. I think that’s pretty understandable and expected. But having Serena go hogwild with abuse and using Fred’s power to get back at June or something is just going to fucking piss me off cos like, c’mon my dudes, been there, done that. Over and over already. It’s the 3rd season and either you’re gonna put this bitch on a mild redemption arc or you’re gonna make her a full-on villain. Make up your minds. The will-she, won’t-she thing is old by now.

I dunno that was a random OT rant.

Also, TRUTH! Serena’s use of the word “rape” was important. Like, part of me is like DUH how did you JUST figure that out?! And, honestly I feel like the marital rape is sort of necessary for Serena’s epiphany to get recognised. I think, Serena is just wilfully ignorant enough to not truly consider the Ceremony rape. I honestly do not think she totally understood what she was suggesting with the 2x10 rape. (Serena really does lack forethought for like…all of her actions. That’s sorta her whole problem.) I think she thought it would be just like a sort of unsanctioned ceremony. But by the end she did seem to recognise what it truly was. And having her raped by Fred in the previous episode would have really helped with that. (Then again, it’s really hard to understand how a woman who was just raped turns around and basically suggests it. And this person is supposed to be not Satan. A pure evil woman sure. But Serena’s not meant to be that.)

I think Yvonne’s delivery of the line was interesting too. Part of it was like, “HOly shit it was rape” and part of it was like, “ha! you’re a monster!! you did that!” Like she had no culpability in it. I want to know if Serena has realised that ALL ceremonies are RAPE yet. I wonder if she’s got there. I’m not totally convinced she has. But… I dunno.

Oh! I hadn’t read that about June’s reasoning! That’s interesting. I mean, it fits with June overall but it’s a very odd thing. Like, to be holding a gun trained on the couple that literally held you down and raped you not 24 hours earlier… and feel SORRY for the woman (whereas the general population’s consensus is that Serena is even worse than Fred for doing that to another woman)? I went and watched it after reading your message I didn’t really see that on June’s face. (But that’s really neither here nor there since editing, directing, etc. all differs from what the writers/showrunners had in mind and those are the guys doing the interviews!)  I take that back! I watched it again and I can deffo see that if that’s what they were going for. Totally missed it and likely wouldn’t have picked up on it if not for this convo.

That said, I totally see June reasoning it out that way. For some strange reason, whether it’s Stockholm Syndrome or whatever, June seems to have a blindspot/softspot for Serena and she seems to have unlimited Get Out Of Jail Free cards for her. Like, c’mon, she literally held her down to be brutally raped, and at this point it seems like Serena could murder June and June’s ghost would just be like, “Hey youuuuu, wanna be my bestie in overthrowing the patriarchy?” (Okay, I’m not at all complaining cos I love their dynamic and I ship them soooooo… lol. On a personal level, it works very well for me and my crackshippy fantasies. I choose to believe June honestly sees something nobody else does and believes in Serena’s capacity for redemption–WHICH IS INSANE. But hey. I love it.)

So, for June to feel sorry for Serena, even after everything really does fit when you think about it. And also when you think about book!June’s attitude towards true power being in forgiveness.

I remember sitting around watching the ep the first time and thinking “I don’t want June to shoot them and be a killer” but also, “WHY ISN’T SHE SHOOTING THE FUCKING PLACE UP! DOES SHE NOT WANT TO ESCAPE????” And I was sitting there with the wifey and she was like, “She can’t. What if she misses? Then you’ve got 2 incredibly angry people chasing you.” And I was like… “Uh. Reload? Shoot them as they’re coming up the stairs.”

Because I have never fired a gun in my life so to me it seems really easy lmao. But to me, I didn’t even care about her shooting Serena but I did have an inkling she didn’t want to shoot Serena with the amount she paused. That would have been a perfect shot with teh type of ammo to take out –or at least injure– two people at once. I was like, “You gotta kill Fred and Serena is pretty useless then. It’s not like they have mobile phones! You can then choose to leave Serena to die there lol, or hostage her. And steal the car. You could get pretty far since nobody knows that Fred/Serena are even there.” To me, rationally, it didnt’ make sense not to shoot them. But… emotionally, obvs, I knew she wouldn’t cos a)the series would like… end rather abruptly lol, and b) that’s just not June.

AND yeah, June getting away with all her bullshit is insane in comparison. Janine literally lost an eye for backtalking once at the Red Centre! June has, well, done so much more and just kind skates away from ALL serious punishment. (Well, living with Fred and Serena is a pretty awful punishment in general.) And, sure part of it was cos she was preggers but … how Aunt Lydia/Fred/Serena/TPTB trust this crazy Handmaid not to KEEP breaking the rules is insane. I feel like nobody would trust her to just be a docile little thing after running away for 92 days. Not even Pervy Freddo. Despite all his creeptastic fetishes, he’d be like, “OMG she is way too high maintenance. i just don’t have the patience. give me that baby so i can shut my annoying wife up and then get me another more docile babyslave to play Scrabble and shave!” The plot armour is strong in this one!

Anyway! I got a bit carried away there…

#Anonymous