#Okay so this is gonna be a bigger post in Tha. Future. But right now let me just. Try to get this out of my system okay

[mariaantonnietta]

Let’s talk about the Gintama 2 Movie!! (Be Forever Yorozuya)

AI wanna talk timelines, timelines!!, I saw the movie again and with the manga finished I want to discuss theories about it!!

Hello! Is me again, I want to talk about the second movie, because after seeing it I always want to try to desipher what happened in the timelines we didn’t see play out! Of coure these will be at best theories that are we can’t probe, but I still want to try to guess! And now with the manga finished, I think is time to revisit it with all the date we have!

I will talk about the second movie, the manga end, and everything, so stay with me having that in mind!

Firstly, this movie deals with time travel (fairly well I might add, I realycould follow all the time twists and make sense of them), and I believed it wise to add a timeline so everyone follows along. Behold my horrible graphic!

Haha, there are some things to say about the drawing. From left to right, The first line is to separate the time-points nothing else, (the movie was released at june 2013, the manga volume for the shinigami arc was december 2013, so I don’t know if I am being  a bit generous there, but in timeline I think it only matters is before Shogun assasination (after which it get serious until the end), and that it is before that point)

The other are the first (and first’s branch),  second and thrid timeline, I didn’t count Tama going to the past to bring past Gintoki as a separate timeline and more like a  little branch of the first because when Gintoki is sent forwards they converge (you can also see it as the rest of that branch dissappearing). All of them are in a sense a branch from the first timeline, but this one converges so.

(ask if something else isn’t clear, I tried T-T) 

Well now unre the cut the  rest of my silly ideas and theories!

A comment, but the only thing that is a bit out of place is Tama surviving in the second timelime?, like shouldn’t her be erased like GIntoki?, I think is either that she would otherwise cause a bigger loop (she doesn’t exist as time machine there->Gintoki cant kill his past self->Genma makes her a time machine->Gintoki kills his past self-> she doesn’t exist as a time machine->...infiinitum) She is the one that allows the timeline to exist. The other is that she is in a Schrödinger' situation that as long as the possibility that she will exist in the future exist she will (gintoki dissappeared because his posibility of future was erased as he killled his past self). Or time machine power makes her inmune to paradoxes, who knows...

Also, we don’t talk enough of  Gintoki dying in this movie. Both Enmi Gintoki of the first timeline, the past Gintoki of the second, and the  protagonist Gintoki we follow in the movie (first timeline branch) are erased, and from now on we are following the Gintoki who’s the future of the Shiroyasha of the third timeline. (the one who helped us fight the Enmi, from now on he’s the protagonist)

The same about the kabukichou people, I mean, nothing changes practically, except maybe the Joui members having seen something strange that day.

1) Now, something I wondering was if the events of the first timeline ocurred in the same way that in the third one. Was there a Shogun Asasination arc?, A silver soul arc?

Well, no. I think that there events unfloded differently...because GIntoki dissapeared for five years, and he did it  before the shogun assasination arc (this not only for the date release, but also the jovial athmosphere at the start at the cinema)

But did the events of the story play on in another manner without Gintoki regardless?, Why, I sure they did. 

Okay, follow me on this. I do not know if the shogun assasination arc happened or not (even tough a parallel can be made of Katsura and Shinsengumi alliance in both places), but I think that even if it did, it didn’t happen at all as planned.

I think everything went into disarray with the virus (don’t we know about that), any plan was left into the air, and Nobunobu or Shigeshige are in charge depending on their luck.

I also want to know what happened with Utsuro and the Tendoshou in this timelime.(Because cm’on, don’t tell me I am the only one who believed Enmi GIntoki looked a lot like a crow ) I want to know if Takasugi is dead or not, and how he died/where he is. (I asumme Sakamoto is fine, maybe helping people, is Zura with those clothes and Gintoki words, Gintoki going to the terminal that make me worry)

So, I started gathering those points and I believe I reached a theory about this.

Okay, so follow me. These are the things we know about the first timeline.

Gintok soon after watching the movie discovered he was infected with the virus. He suspected it was the Enmi, went to talk of the past with Zura to clear his mind, talked wiith Gengai about making a time machine if he didn’t came back. 

Left the Yorozuya to investigate if there was a solution, tries to kil himself when he doesn’l  find one. He fails. He has not other choice but to wander as he sees the world be destroyed by his own hands. 

I posted this photo because of the ships that surround the tower and attack it. It doesn’t say when this attack took place after he left, we could only see that he wasn’t there. But this image looks fairly similar to the one when the Altana liberation force attacks.

The tower also looks very similar 5 years later as after attacked by the altana liberation army. (I checked also with how it was when the Tegenism ship fell, it looks more like the after the attack)

(After Initial liberation army attack. Third Timeline)

(Five years later. First timeline) Probably they didn’t have resources to rebuild with everything falling down with teh virus. Why would some army attack, I think that maybe the earthlings that escape, some had the virus, that probably expanded it onto another planets, that now made the problem worse in the universe and some people really mad at the planet from where the infection came from. Or, it could be rebels, like the Kihetai, that are taking advantage of the political turmoil to attack their actual objective (the terminal, with the minawabanwu maybe too ) Or both.

(Two years later third timeline) I added this to show how it doesn’t look like the terminal we discuss, so I think if something happened, it happened earlier more than later. (Or later, but it was only one incident and not 2)

Another thing we know is that the Enmi look a lot like the Tendoushu. I compared staffs and things. Wondered if there were related to Tengenism (the weir religion that launches the last arc)

Well, It’s not basic staff like tendoushou, but the decoration is different tha the tengeism. The clothes are also similar but not the same (I know the these arcs came later, but sorachi could have used different designs and not similar ones, you know, also, it’s just throwing ideas)

(Enmi at the start, checked, Enmi Gintoki uses the same one (and same clothes))

Oboro staff is different. Tengenism have the same type. Tengenism symbol are wings (phoenix), not Enmi. But the similarities are there too.

So, we all know the Enmi are nanomachines that are used to destroy worlds right?. I wondered if Utsuro could survive that. The answer  I reached was that it depended. If the Enmi virus only worked on humans, it would probably not kill it. ut if after killing humans it affected animals, then plants, then destryed the planet vitality, well, that would do it. It would depend of how lethat it actually was. (in  the last case, he would be the last to die, and Gintoki would be the only one who survives as the new vessel...moving onto the next world until he dies naturally or some poor bastard kills him)

 Well, I’m gonna asumme that the Enmi would destroy the world to that point, because they were described as ‘beings  that caused damage enough to leave a planet uninhabitable’ and the other ‘uninhabitable’ planet we see is Kouka’s, that is dying and its Altana was almost nothing when she left. Zura said they were forbidden or being restricted because of this.

So we know the Enmi were beings that could destroy worlds,(probably up to their lifeforce), that were contained by something, that someone attacked the terminal tower looking a lot like a pseude liberation army, and that Enmi’s dress is eerie similar (but not the same) to the Tendoushu.

I believe they were also a ting the Tendoushu kept to themselves, a fraction that can destroy a planet to the point of leaving without life (Altana) sounds like something they would regulate. Maybe mercenaries was  a cover up, or maybe it was both.

Was the first timeline all Utsuro plan? Well, too many jumps there. I believe thst he vouldn’t do that trapped with Shoyou, I think that in the first timeline he did as in the last arc, he saw that mortals used that virus to harm the others, and decided to make use of that. He of course was the cause that they attacked the Terminal and is probably happy that all the universe may perish of disease.

Maybe.

Or maybe that was the plan, and Takasugi stopped him. (There are too many factors to see how things developed. But either kihetai + harusame maybe + minawabanshu and some others killed utsuro, or they died either fighting him or from disease)

The way GIn is dtanding aside as the ships atack the terminal (he can’t join) makes me think some kind of final battle took place.

(Gorilla might not know how Gintama was fgonna end, but he did have some ideas, and final fight at the Terminal tower was one that stuck all the series)

Does Gintoki know of Utsuro?, Who knows?  If you want my take, I think Takasugi and Utsuro both died figthing each other. As the terminal exploded.

I think he eventually at least, found out. Because he decided to go die there.

(also because you know, final fight at the terminal.)

2) In the second timeline everything is much more clear. Young GIntoki dies. I see 3 options unfolding

a) the one I call the normal one. GIntoki dies, people mourn him (because Gintoki just erased his future, not his past, young Gintoki body should remain), either Zura or Takasugi kills Shouyou (probably Takasugi, I’m thinkin so because Oboro mostly, he would pick if not shiroyasha, the other more known at the frontlines one, but could be either way), and is a bit diffrent but in practical mostly the same.(maybe some things are held back and the shogun asssination hasn’t happened yet, or maybe it did, who knows) We can’t tell more than thi.

b) Probably not route. shouyou discovers that Gintoki’s died and it gives him strenght to make keep Utsuru more in check, he uh...destroys things, there’s no need to kill him for now.things advance more or less like in canon,  with a lot of things we don’t see 

c) I cry route. Shouyou discovers what happened, and it kills off his personality (sends him to sleep at least). There’s no need for either Zura or Takasugi to kill him. They never find his master at the war (maybe they are told he is dead, and don’t believe it). They didin’t kill his master, but los Gintoki to who knows who, and don¡’t know what happened to master, Thingd happen more or less like in canon.

 3) Here someone (probabky kurokono!...ok no, leave me dream), wakes GIntoki from his drunk sleep and he and the joui 4 see a bizarre image of people from 15 years in the future attack the Enmi.(of course they don’t know this) They brieftly join them. They see from a distance how the future people dissapear. They continue with their life.

(That last one is canon, haha)

As you can see nothing has been cleared and these are mostly cool theories, a lot of other things are possible. But I don’t know, wanted to talk about it.

#gintama #gintama spoilers #gintama movie #be forever yorozuya #gintoki sakata #utsuro #enmi #takasugi #katsura #some things that ocurred to me #I will probably have to correct some grammar mistakes #maybe if something else of this theory-idea appears I would add it with an edit #what abouth Tama ? #I could mention some things about Shinpachi and Kagura not forgetting Gintoki until his past self is dead to lead the Shcrodinger legitimacy #but other people forgot gintoki soo who knows #these characters are somentimes self aware #makes it more difficult #maybe they didnt forget becasue apart for their feelings they saw him dissapear #(and Tama too) #so their brain knew? maybe #tama told everyone in the second timeline about the first so kabucichou people knowing is not surprising #of course words alone don't cause their feelings to burn their souls do #Ithis post is so long thank you som much for reading