#a conspiracy theory for batman that i wanted them to see. got sidetracked. whoops. anyway

[mangoisms]

you know what i’m thinking about. in the unmasked run in robin 93 where jack figures out tim is robin and does so by breaking tim’s privacy and going through his room and it’s often used as backup that jack was abusive most specifically in fanon spaces where bruce can then be posed as tim’s true father/better than jack and like dgmw it was bad and shitty and he shouldn’t have done it.

but it’s also funny that right before this, in that same issue—#124—it starts off with this terrible sequence of bruce treating tim like shit because he’s lost confidence in himself after accidentally killing (but not permenantly; now it seems that way) johnny warren; bruce’s defense here is tim doesn’t know this factually which i mean is fair, but he calls it an excuse and basically doesn’t address the core of tim’s feelings At All. like. look.

Bruce: This is dangerous business, Robin. No such thing as calling “time out” or “no fair.” Not unless you want those to be your final words, before the cops fish your body out of the Gotham River. Tim: Give me a break, Bruce. You’re Batman. How can I possibly hope to beat you in one-on-one combat? Bruce: I limited myself to using only the fighting styles indigenous to the Indian sub-continent: Kallar Payattu; Verumkai; some Gatka— Tim: So what? You’re Batman! Bruce: Still, you should have held out longer than three minutes. Last winter, you nearly lasted seven.  Tim: Last winter I was still—I mean back then I hadn’t— Bruce: If you have something to tell me, then spit it out. Otherwise I have better ways to waste my time.  Tim: Back then I still hadn’t killed anyone. Bruce: Oh, so it’s that again? How long are you planning to use that crutch? Tim: I— Bruce: For three months, you’ve used that incident to justify slacking off. You show up late for training sessions, or miss them entirely.  Tim: I— Bruce: You're moody, petulant and no longer self-motivated. Anytime Alfred or I aren't actually watching, you stop working. I've about decided you're not fit to continue being Robin. Tim: And that's the real crux of our problem, isn't it? You've lost trust in me. You haven't let me go out on real missions, or patrol on my own, since the Johnny Warren case. Bruce: Cart before the horse, Tim. You lost trust in yourself then, so I stopped giving you the weight you could no longer seem to carry. Tim: Is that true? Alfred, have you seen it, too? Was it me all along? Alfred: When you first came to us, Master Tim, you were so blithe and confident--ready to take on the world. How did my father describe the type? "Ready to charge into hell with no more than a bucket." Don't mind admitting that you seemed a godsend--the one young man who could exorcise the ghost of Jason from these chambers. Bruce: Careful, Alfred. Stick to business. This isn't an encounter session, and no one needs to dredge up ancient history. Alfred: Point taken, sir. My apologies. In any case, Master Tim, you no longer seem to be the same young man who so dazzled us then. Now all of the light has drained out of you, and this noble cause you once desired so much to participate in has instead become a dreadful burden. Bruce: I'll put you back out there the moment you show me that's where you want to be. But if you're going to keep using Warren to continue acting this way, not even knowing if you actually caused his death--well, that excuse is good once more, and once more only. I’ll accept it as the reason you quit. Take a day or two to decide.

like? bruce isnt looking too good here either. at all. anyway. there’s too much i want to say with this but this is already long so. Here

#should it be taken at face value? probably not. but even in that case this is most likely bruce’s idea of tough love #which he has employed before. but it’s such a ghoulish way to do it anyway #either 1) he genuinely means this which wouldn’t be hard to accept or 2) again. tough love/tim just needs a kick in the ass to get going #which if anything the second option is actually um. worse #and like he could’ve feasibly taken care of this reasonably by just talking to tim about it. but no. he has to be a dick about it. again. #‘tough love’ is what i’m getting from it. which is. sad #this was a total side quest btw im talking to rose about the urban legend retcon and was just trying to find a panel of bernard talking abt #a conspiracy theory for batman that i wanted them to see. got sidetracked. whoops. anyway #dc meta: tim #edit: nvm on the pages i don’t want to LOL #but if anyone wants them i have them. this is all in that issue