#and he is definitely petty and shitty about stuff I'm not trying to deny that

[reachexceedinggrasp]

What do you think could’ve been a way to make Loki AA’s primary antagonist AND keep him in-character? Would’ve been my dream movie tbh

It wouldn’t take a huge amount even if you leave almost the entire plot the exact same. He could have been an infinitely more effective Big Bad, but that would be more structural work and that kind of major overhaul isn’t necessary if you just want him to be in character.

There is some stuff to work with. There’s already emphasis on him being in a very bad way physically and it’s already implied he suffered some kind of torture, so the most generous reading of the film as it exists is that Loki’s mental state is so poor that he isn’t in touch with reality. For example, when he says Thor threw him into an abyss- the charitable reading (and the only thing I think makes sense with TH’s acting choices) is that he genuinely doesn’t remember it accurately. His trauma and paranoia, spending however long in a void obsessing over what happened and trying to reconcile his own actions, spending however long being tortured, etc. have distorted his perception of events.

Now that he’s been forced to go on living, he can’t admit that he tried to kill himself. The whole reason he tried to kill himself is that he can’t cope with the reality of his situation and what he’s done- there’s nothing to live for in that moment of lucidity when he offers everything up to Odin and Odin rejects it.

So, lean into that way more. Make the coercion more explicit and take out all the stupid, wrong ‘you want daddy to make it better’ power speeches (fy JW), the ‘a throne, any throne, at any cost’ stuff, delete that awful (pointless anyway) scene with Black Widow, and give him an actual plan that makes sense from his pov. Have him still motivated by his desire to be a worthy son, a worthy prince of Asgard, and desperately trying to consolidate an identity of his own. He does not care about power, he never pursued power, what he wants is love, respect, belonging. He wants to prove that he is just as valuable as Thor.

He’s not a ‘full-tilt diva’ who wants his name on a building. Fame and adulation are not what he desires or what he’s missing. He’s missing self worth and a sense of place. He is a terrified and insecure emotional-child who absolutely loathes himself and has had every anxiety-thought he’s ever had apparently vindicated by reality. His meltdown came about because being the temperate and sensible one (his natural disposition) is inextricably linked with being ‘other’ and ‘less than’ in his life. He had thought the problem was Thor’s impulsive, arrogant behaviour overshadowing everything, needing to babysit his brother rather than accomplish anything on his own, and that his pragmatic approach to life was obviously superior- if only Odin would acknowledge him, but then he discovers he’s a monster and so they must have been right all along.

A very substantial part of his original motivation was also genuine concern for the realm. He’s diplomatic and relatively sober-minded until his very personal fear-buttons are being pushed; his anger is cool, only his hurt is hysterical. Nothing he ever does is done for no reason or just to make someone suffer (even his lies to Thor are intended to keep Thor from ever trying to return to Asgard, not solely to humble or wound him). He’s callous in pursuit of goals he considers very important (in an unthinking, I’m-royalty-this-is-the-fate-of-the-kingdom kind of way), but he’s not sadistic.

So to get him to act as the big bad, what makes sense? He has to think what he’s doing is necessary. He has to be able to justify it to himself as a greater good to cover the child-like, selfish, vulnerable primary motives; he does not want to be in charge and would never consider his own rule a ‘greater good’. He doesn’t consider collateral damage but doesn’t cause it on purpose, and he is only driven to direct, extreme actions by panic and desperation. He should be a cerebral villain (Joss thinks he is in AA, but he’s not), so he should be playing 3-dimensional chess and should have at least two apparently contradictory layers to his plan (as he does in Thor1, where is seems like he’s aligned himself with the Jotuns and will allow Laufey to kill Odin until it’s revealed his real plan was to lure Laufey to a vulnerable position and secure that total victory for Asgard Thor has been boasting he’ll get since they were children while also gaining an opportunity to personally rescue his father). He never stops adapting to changing circumstances, but his solutions are surreptitious and non-violent until he’s backed into a corner.

Therefore, a story where we think he’s just trying to usurp a world to find self-worth in ruling it for the first half (preferably one where he beats the shit out of Cap and Iron Man before allowing himself to be captured so the audience actually understands that he can and so he feels like an actually dangerous threat to the heroes), but it’s revealed that he’s really playing a triple cross. He is trying to prove himself to Odin and be vindicated, but he’s doing it by deliberately conning Thanos out of the Tesseract and protecting Midgard from harm; controlling and negating the invasion from within. He managed all this so he could be a ‘defender of mortals’ as Odin and Thor are, so he can take home a powerful artefact like Odin did the Casket of Ancient Winters. Planning to drop these spoils at his father’s feet while pretending he didn’t orchestrate the entire situation. Like Thor1, this plan could essentially succeed completely even while parts of it blow up in his face and he struggles to keep believing it’s worth it, and the point is that his parameters aren’t acceptable, it’s not okay to use whole planets as pawns, etc. and the heroes have to thwart him right as it’s coming together.

So instead of randomly disappearing leaving everything necessary to defeat him lying around unguarded and being completely superfluous to the climax as he is in the actual film, there is a meaningful fight with emotional stakes. Instead of Our Heroes vs Organic Battle Droids for forty minutes, there is a genuine conflict and genuine tension. Loki remains consistent and very sympathetic while still being a major existential threat. The film doesn’t slap him around as comic relief or render him pathetic when you’re still supposed to fear him, he doesn’t become a ridiculous cartoon misogynist space Nazi, he doesn’t feel like a total damp squib of a villain who really didn’t merit the big team up.

#loki #loki meta #I feel like this is a total convoluted mess but I've been asked this a few times now and I'd like to offer SOME kind of answer #I mean the short answer is just keep his personality #have him BE smart instead of just saying he is #let him be strong #let him do magic #I still can't believe Joss's bitching about how he's too weak and he needs another villain #when it is ENTIRELY Joss's fault people think he's weak #only Thor and Hulk are a threat to him in a physical fight #he's also brilliant can do magic and has a mind control stick #TH is a huge man Joss he towers over all your hero actors #(except Hemsworth obviously) #how is this not enough to work with #how did you manage to write him as so pointless you can take him out of the movie without changing anything #one of the richest characters in the entire MCU and you're like 'I can think of no organic conflict for this character' #'better write him as a Generic Villain 5' #Loki is so complicated that I'm being VERY breezy about some of this #where there are more layers to his motives #and he is definitely petty and shitty about stuff I'm not trying to deny that #but I don't want to rewrite all my Loki meta #I can't remember my avengers tags but I think I have most of it in the Loki meta tag now #for further more coherent reading #I'm going to regret this i have anxiety already