#atf logan x veronica

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ASK THE FANDOM

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom, from a lovely anon follower:

When does Logan realize that Veronica still has feelings for him in S2? Is it in 2x08, or does he think she's just yelling at him?

Please reblog and add your opinions. We’ll compile responses in a few days.

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#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf 2x8 #atf logan #atf veronica #atf logan x veronica

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ASK THE FANDOM--RESPONSES

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom question:

I’m a LoVe shipper and I just read MKAT for first time. Loved it, except for the Leo thing at end. What are people’s thoughts on what was going on with V there? Why does she “consider” a relationship with Leo briefly, when she clearly is happy/in love with Logan? Just what??? 

And here’s what you had to say:

@somekindofflowergirl--It’s been a while since I read it when it initially came out, but I didn’t take it as Veronica seriously thinking about breaking up with Logan to be with Leo. I took it more as a what-if, when she was imagining how her life would be different if she had been with Leo, and how in many ways it would be easier but also true to herself because Leo gets that part of her that a Piz or Duncan never could.

It may be because I’ve been married a long time, and I know that these thoughts happen (at least for me) when we’re going through a rough time—it has never been a serious consideration, and doesn’t mean I don’t love my husband. It actually to me is indicative of how much Veronica loves Logan because she considers that all the above is true and still chooses him.

@endlessly-besotted--I took it as her being (briefly) scared of the commitment it takes to be with Logan. As we know, when things tend to get real, V likes to run the other way. She’s scared of the consequences of being truly happy with him so she briefly considers why she just didn’t choose a more convenient relationship with Leo who understands her career and is more available than Logan. That being said, I want to point out that while Leo understands her career, he still doesn’t fully understand her. At the end book he makes a comment about her going legit and working with the police. She’s always straddled that fine line of wanting to do the right thing, but not always being able to do it exactly legal. He likes her detective lifestyle but not the way she always does it…unlike Logan, who doesn’t always get it, but respects how she does it.

@fatherjerusalem--Do I *actually* think that the ending of MKAT is a whole love triangle thing and that Veronica was seriously thinking about banging Leo? No. I think it was an idle thought that was quickly brushed away because she is in love with Logan.

That being said, for all of the credit - deserved and undeserved - that Rob Thomas gets, it’s easy to overlook that he can be incredibly lazy as a writer. He recycles entire plotlines and scenes (word for word) from Veronica Mars onto iZombie, and his overreliance on the shitty, terrible, fucking lazy, god damned idiotic love triangle trope is worse than 1980s Madonna’s overreliance on hairspray.

One of the many reasons that, while I’m excited for the revival, there will always be that wary feeling inside me when it comes to Rob Thomas now.

@absolutelyiris--Yup, pretty much what FJ said all the way.  I actually thought it was quite in character for Veronica since her first instinct is usually to run and the idea of “easy” was tempting, but we all have to remember, at the very end, she still chooses Logan and “epic” over “easy.” That was the lesson. Now if only RT would remember that…

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf mkat #atf veronica #atf leo #atf logan #atf logan x veronica #atf leo x veronica #vm meta #meta mkat #meta veronica #meta logan #meta leo #meta logan x veronica #meta leo x veronica #meta relationships #logan echolls

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ASK THE FANDOM

Here’s the latest Ask the Fandom from an awesome anon follower:

I'm a LoVe shipper and I just read MKAT for first time. Loved it, except for the Leo thing at end. What are people's thoughts on what was going on with V there? Why does she "consider" a relationship with Leo briefly, when she clearly is happy/in love with Logan? Just what??? 

Please reblog and add your opinions. We’ll compile responses in a few days.

Have another Ask the Fandom question? Send us a note!

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf mkat #atf veronica #atf logan #atf leo #atf logan x veronica #atf leo x veronica

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ASK THE FANDOM

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom from a wonderful anon follower:

What would Logan have said if Veronica hadn't cut him off the morning after the Alterna-Prom?

Please reblog and add your opinions. We’ll compile responses in a few days.

Have another Ask the Fandom question? Send us a note!

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf 2x20 #atf logan #atf veronica #atf logan x veronica

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ASK THE FANDOM

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom question, from an awesome anon follower:

For "Ask the Fandom"... I just saw the GIF of the "liquid evil" comment that Veronica throws back at Logan in Season 2 and it made me think: Do you think, on some level, Veronica running away from Logan is in part do to the fact that his father is, in fact, evil? Do you think that Logan feels Aaron's actions had any impact on his relationship with Veronica?

Please reblog and add your opinions. We’ll compile responses in a few days.

Have another Ask the Fandom question? Send us a note!

#ask the fandom #vmhq #atf 2x13 #atf veronica #atf logan #atf logan x veronica

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ASK THE FANDOM

Here’s the latest Ask the Fandom question from a lovely anon follower:

It is not really a typical ask the fandom question, but it might be fun to speculate what new information Logan felt he had to tell Veronica right after the "If true love comes looking for me, I'll be at the espresso machine."

Please reblog and add your opinions. We’ll compile responses in a few days.

Have another Ask the Fandom question? Send us a note!

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf 2x15 #atf logan #atf veronica #atf logan x veronica

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ASK THE FANDOM--RESPONSES

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom question:

What would you be the MOST worried/afraid of seeing in a future Veronica Mars mini-series? (Exs: can include artificial LoVe triangles, mishandled rape humors, and problematic portrayals of feminism). To put another way, is there anything Rob, et al. could do in a future mini-series that would ruin the show for you? (give your detailed examples below).

And here’s what a bunch of you had to say (seriously, this was a pretty popular ATF, although of course not in league with ‘What Hogwarts House does your fave belong to?’ and ‘Is Logan Echolls well-endowed?’)

@chelseaellie-- Where do I start, it’s such a well written show being disappointed is the start

I am worried they will break LoVe up to create fake drama. They don’t need that just need to have normal relationship problems, like wanting a family and getting married

I’m worried about not enough Logan as if he’s with the navy how can we have him around, or him being calmed too much and not as snarky as normal

I worry about too much focus on dick, who I can’t stand he’s a creators pet (along with Piz) he’s annoying and should have grown up, but they love him too much

I worry about fan service and bringing in characters cos they think fans want them and ruining the story

I worry it will mean the end of my beloved izombie

@almecria-- As long as they don't break LoVe apart AGAIN for the sake of fake drama (and as long as we're done with useless annoying artificial LoVe triangles), I'm cool with almost anything to be honest.

@elliebear75-- Do *not* kill Logan. I repeat…DO NOT KILL LOGAN.

No “heroic death while serving his country.”

No “sacrificing himself to save Veronica.”

No “some crazed Aaron Echolls superfan murder.”

None of it.

Not to develop Veronica’s character.

Not to bring drama to the franchise.

Not to springboard an entirely different direction to the storyline.

Give us the beauty of day-to-day drama that is two people navigating a life together. Give us fun and snark and sadness. Give us lots and lots of LoVe.

Just don’t kill Logan.

@lisawolfe80—That was my first thought too!! J

@elliebear75-- @lisawolfe80 Right?!!

@chelseaellie--@elliebear75 surely they wouldn’t even consider killing him off, that would be crazy, now I’m worried

@elliebear75--@chelseaellie Unfortunately, RT has said on several occasions that his original idea for the movie was much darker and that even the rebooted season 4 would have only had Veronica in it. So anything is possible. But just in case Rob Thomas is trolling Tumblr, it needs to be out in the universe....NO KILLING LOGAN.

@chelseaellie-- @elliebear75 really only Veronica in S4? Was that the networks plan? The great thing about Veronica Mars is the relationships and how they all work. He can’t kill Logan don’t even think about it Rob Thomas, to be honest if he can’t kill if Blaine who is pure evil he can’t do anything to his more popular character

@elliebear75-- @chelseaellie If you go on YouTube you can find the 15 minute "demo" of what RT envisioned for season 4 (V as a rookie FBI agent) and none of the other characters are even remotely in the picture. As for RT and iZombie, I feel that it is his partner, Diane, who keeps Blaine alive, not RT. In interviews, she seems to be the one with the soft spot for Blaine/David Anders.

@jesso80-- Amen! I just want LoVe with normal problems and solving crimes

@teenagegumshoe-- Making it the Logan/Veronica show. I get that it’s a popular pairing, and that Rob himself loves it, but I’d hate to see the show center on Veronica’s relationship with Logan. Let him be a secondary character but it is first and foremost her story. 

@cheshirecatstrut-- I’d most fear a retread of original material, instead of letting the characters be thirty.

Let Logan and V navigate a normal, committed adult relationship instead of love triangles and Manufactured Big Misunderstandings, and let the day-to-day of that happen on screen. Let Veronica’s friends come out from under her shadow and show how they’ve developed their own talents and lives apart from her. Let the supporting players have relationships and problems that don’t directly relate back to the main character, yet still merit story time.

Let all the characters interact, instead of being compartmentalized as Veronica’s Hacker Friend, Veronica’s Hot Boyfriend, Veronica’s Emotional Support, Veronica’s Guide to the World of Crime, etc. This show had an amazing lead, but it also had a killer ensemble cast, and one of it’s great strengths was the way any two actors could be put in a scene together and manage to shine. I want to see Logan and Keith interact, or Weevil and Wallace, or Mac and Van Clemmons, or Vinnie and Cliff. 

And don’t make the overarching season-long plot so convoluted the audience has trouble keeping track. Also, don’t over-focus on the episode mysteries to the detriment of the overarching plot. Most fans tune in for the big, long-term story, so that’s the one that needs to be best-crafted.

 Also, please please please please…no more Nice Guys hogging screen time. PLEASE.

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf veronica mars revival #atf logan #atf veronica #atf logan x veronica #vm meta #meta veronica mars revival #meta logan #meta veronica #meta logan x veronica #logan echolls

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ASK THE FANDOM--RESPONSES

Here’s the latest Ask the Fandom question:

I’m doing yet another rewatch of VM, and one instance that makes my heart hurt each time is the moment Veronica asks Logan to dance in Season 2, Episode 17 - Plan B. That scene is so well acted and so emotionally heavy, and yet I have a hard time understanding why it’s so intense? Can anyone please explain why Veronica suddenly wants to dance (besides saving Gia from verbal abuse)? And why is that scene so wonderfully painful to watch?

And here’s what you had to say:

@mysilverylining--Because she really did want to be first in line to ask him to the Sadie Hawkins dance, but recited his prize-winning paper when she lost the element of surprise? Because she has a thing for politicians, and somebody’s rocking the  Honorary Deputy County Commissioner title? Because after finding the truck driver, she proved to Logan that stakeouts can be much, much sexier in real life?   Because protecting Gia gave her the perfect excuse to get that close to Logan again? Honestly, I don’t know what Veronica’s motivation was here, but it’s one of my favorite L/V scenes ever.  The way she keeps sneaking peeks from under her eyelashes, the way Logan’s hand tightens on her hips, the way the other couples disappear, and it’s just them under the spotlight as the scene ftbs.

@brittany4824--I honestly don’t think I can top what @mysilverylining just said because it was too perfect for words but I’ll try to add some more. Veronica seemed to see the almost-verbal-smackdown as a good chance to get her hands on Logan (literally and figuratively). For me, I think it seemed like an impulsive move on her end. Because as soon as she pulls him away, I almost get this “oh shit what did I just do,” feeling from her. So she’s like, “well screw it, I’ll dance this dance and sneak some pretty cute looks at the love of my life."   The episode was really building for the execution of this moment, and so I think the intensity partially comes from that huge build up of tension. There’s minimal release here in this scene– they’re just dancing and they don’t even speak much, and yet it’s such a big moment (at least for us fans). It’s the gaze they both share. It’s what’s unspoken. Maybe it’s because I read far into things but… it’s the unsaid I’m sorry, it’s the regret they both share, it’s the yearning for something they don’t think they can have. As an audience we know they’re idiots in love whether they want to admit it or not. So that intensity, that wonderful pain, stems from the building need to have our two favorites finally admitting their real feelings. It’s a very intimate and raw and real moment between them, and I feel like it’s rare when we got that from Veronica and Logan (at least Veronica.. maybe that’s harsh) and here we get that. It’s a window into what their true feelings are. And we, as an audience, know that. We feel that. And it’s wonderfully, painfully beautiful.

@fatherjerusalem--Also though, it’s cuz she wanted the D (and I don’t mean Duncan), but didn’t quite know how to admit that yet. I mean, sure, mostly the nice emotional stuff above, but don’t ever doubt the D.

@risssaar--The scene just screams YEARNING to me. It’s in everything from the intense way they stare at each other to the placement of their hands and the way they barely move to the music. Don’t even get me started on the music - the lyrics are so freaking perfect for them and where they are in this moment it’s like the Perishers sat down and crafted it just so Logan x Veronica could have the dance of ultimate UST at the Sadie Hawkins dance. The focus of this whole scene is just them moving slowly in tandem with their hands around each other and gazing at each other really really intensely while the Perishers croon things like “It feels as though we’ve made amends. Like we found a way eventually” in the background. I mean…COME ON, could it be MORE perfect? There’s some epic eye contact here and there’s no doubt at all that these two idiots want each other SO badly yet neither of them takes the first step, so the tension just BUILDS AND BUILDS and we, the audience can feel it. We can feel the tension and the want and the way they almost ache to close the distance between themselves - it leaps off the screen and creates one of my favourite Logan x Veronica scenes ever. I think one of the reasons I love it so much is because it’s one of the few scenes where Logan x Veronica are not a couple but still kind of vulnerable and letting their true feelings bleed through,albeit unwittingly/unwillingly. Usually their post breakup conversation is conducted under a layer of sass and snark and this is one of those times where its all stripped away. Once they start dancing it’s all about what their faces and bodies say, the walls usually erected by their words is gone and all that’s left is the WANT. And yeah @fatherjerusalem she wants the D. BADLY. I don’t refer to it in my head as the dance of Ultimate UST for nothing.

@alzaetia--When I watched this ep with my husband, he said, “This dance is exactly their whole relationship. (pause) She should probably just fuck him. She obviously wants to.” Just thought I’d add another opinion from the male mind. Personally, I also saw this dance as a physical representation of their entire season 2 relationship. I call it, “In case you missed season two: This.”

@catalina-infanta--All im going to say is, THANK the GODS we got a movie!!!! Thank Venus the Goddess of Love, Thank Neptune, God of the sea, and yes, thank MARS the GOD of WAR!

@hermione-mak-gilmore--I mean, how perfect is this? This is literally LoVe’s story, or specifically what Logan would say to Veronica if he could. I would elaborate on this, but I think it’s pretty self-explanatory (although, if anyone wants to go full in depth, please do)! As usual, perfect song choices on Rob Thomas’ part!

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf 2x17 #atf veronica #atf logan #atf gia #atf logan x veronica #vm meta #meta veronica #meta logan #meta logan x veronica #meta 2x17 #logan echolls

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ASK THE FANDOM--RESPONSES

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom question, from a lovely follower who probably didn’t realize just how popular/ controversial this question would be!

Do you think Veronica was justified in breaking up with Logan for sleeping with Madison? My own two cents: I feel like Logan gets a pass from most people on this but I have a harder time with it. He had to have known how much Veronica hated Madison and the reasons why. I assume that would have been discussed when LoVe were together. I’m with V that it seemed to be a pretty pointed choice of sex partner.

And here’s what all of you had to say:

@heavenli24-- Do you think Veronica was justified in breaking up with Logan for sleeping with Madison? For me, it seems kind of like a ‘we were on a break’ Friends scenario. Veronica and Logan were not together when he slept with Madison and he had been the one to break up with her, so technically it wasn’t cheating and at the time he was essentially free to sleep with whoever he liked - so I don’t think Veronica has a leg to stand on on the cheating front. Of course, though, you have the emotional factor to consider: - the fact that he slept with someone else when they’d only just broken up and  it was clear he still loved her (the Friends scenario) - the fact that Madison was the girl he slept with, when he knew of the bad blood between her and Veronica - the fact that he didn’t tell the whole truth when Veronica asked him if he’d hooked up with someone else while they were apart. Taking that into account, I think that Veronica was right to be angry with him over it - mainly for the omission of the truth - and also that she was justified in feeling hurt over it. For Logan’s part, I like to think it wasn’t a deliberate thing, that he didn’t make an informed decision to seek out and sleep with Madison - I’m picturing a scenario where he was drunk and upset and Madison took advantage of it, knowing what the consequences might be. Having said all that though, I do think it was something LoVe could have worked through and that Veronica could have come to terms with and forgiven him for eventually. I also think that if Logan had been honest in the first place and admitted what happened rather than having it come out later, they could have worked through it without all the added drama… I think what sealed it for Veronica was that a) Logan didn’t tell her when she asked and b) she had to find out from Madison herself instead

@missismess-- I generally agree with your two cents. The great thing about Veronica Mars is that I empathize 100 % with the protagonist, even if I don’t agree with her. I feel for her so strongly that I absolutely understand her reaction to Logan’s choice of sex partner. I would have done the same thing. From a rational standpoint I also understand that the slight really isn’t the end of the world. And I can see how Logan would have made the supposedly drunken decision to self sabotage by fucking the person most likely to wreck his life even worse - right up his ally. But emotionally? I’m with Veronica.

@abeautifuldarkness-- It's a little less we 'were on a break' and more 'we were broken up.' And by that account, the latter does not imply/expect future reconciliation. It was a surprising treat that they did get back together. While I feel terrible for Veronica, because I definitely have one or two 'Madisons' in my own life, I can't help but slightly side more with Logan. Asshole move? definitely. But is it out of character? no. Rich boy getting wasted, having empty, meaningless sex to fill a painful void: very Logan-esque, especially when he, as Jason Dorhring puts it, plummets into lows in his life. I think Veronica was justified to make him suffer for it, and even cubing Madison's car, but long-term, serious relationships take more than 24 hours to work out, even when your very core is hurt, especially when the whole thing is on a technicality like that of a hiatus in a relationship's timeline. I speak from experience, and while I can see that V & L don't have the 7- year experience I have how, I know that had myself and my boyfriend didn't really push through those shitty painful moments even in our fresh days of naivety, we wouldn't have survived either. So maybe I'm biased, but I half hope/half expect Veronica and Logan to push through the same way. So my opinion/answer is that she excused in the emotional sense, but not justified. What makes it all worse is that small fact that she doesn't completely listen to Logan's message. If it wouldn't have changed her mind, he at least deserved the closure, a last fight or her listening to (all) is words, or something. I love V but I expect her to at least have the maturity to do that, and in in this episode she doesn't. Such a painful moment in their timeline either way.

@jennydb-blog-- I am not sure he realizes how much she hates him. I actually dislike more that he is still friends with Dick, who basically set up Veronica's rape at the hands of Beaver. But I am not sure how much she has told him about that. Personally, I think Veronica is overreacting. But I am not someone who generally see why people are mad about friends hooking up with someone you dated three years ago either. Water under the bridge.

@addicted2love2015-- Do you think Veronica was justified in breaking up with Logan for sleeping with Madison? I very much understand Veronica being upset to the point of breaking up and leaving the scene in a hurry. She was lied to by the guy she loved, who was the same guy who repeatedly begged her to trust him. She was also completely humiliated in possibly the worst way she could imagine, also by the guy she loved and who was supposed to love her. Even if they weren’t together at the time of the act, does love and respect for the other just fly out the window the minute they say, “It’s over”? Did the friendship, separate from the romantic relationship, count for anything? After all, Logan had as much said that he was still her friend and that he would be there if she needed anything. Friends don’t hurt their friends on purpose. The on purpose part is Veronica’s viewpoint, but mine too. I agree with Veronica when she says that he can’t say that he didn’t think of her and how much it would hurt her sometime before or during the act. The sex with her enemy and then the lying and then the excuse of “you didn’t deserve to know” would feel like betrayal of the worst kind. Even though Veronica was justified in breaking up with Logan, I think she should have talked about the Madison-thing with him after some time went by of her trying to process and the pain not being so fresh. The bottom line is she loved him and really didn’t want to be without him. She should have put her big girl panties on and addressed it head-on in order to move past it. I think she wanted to, but by the time she was ready, he had moved on to Parker. Again, I think her feeling would have been Parker was another way to purposely hurt her, whether it was or not. I do think it is something that they could have moved past if Parker hadn’t entered the scene. It could have even served as a positive catalyst to address many of the other problems in their relationship, if they had let it. Interestingly, @brittany4824 and I just posted a story about a week ago that addresses this very subject. If you haven’t read it yet, go read http://archiveofourown.org/works/9686306 .

@fatherjerusalem-- Well right off the bat, let’s just say that Veronica is absolutely able to break up with Logan for any reason at all, or no reason whatsoever (and vice versa). She (if she were a real human being) needs no justification in ending a relationship. That being said, I do think that one of Veronica’s character traits is that with the people she cares about most (Keith and Logan, for example) she’s MUCH harsher on their… bad choices…. than she is on people who she may like, she may enjoy spending time with, but they don’t MEAN as much to her. She’s not as disappointed when Weevil does something bad because she doesn’t have those same expectations from him. So when Logan - who was free and clear to do anything with anyone he wanted to, let’s not forget - slept with Madison, the combination of her expectations for Logan and her hatred of Madison hit that boiling point. Just look at her reaction to the whole Duncan/Kendall did-they-didn’t-they (they did) when she was actually dating Duncan. She didn’t care about that nearly as much, because Duncan didn’t mean nearly as much to her. As for Logan’s side of it, he didn’t outright lie (yes, not naming the person he slept with was a lie of omission, but he did admit to sleeping with someone that meant less than nothing to him) and I will flat out fight anyone who said he did it to hurt Veronica or to get back at Veronica. And it’s not a Ross-and-Rachel-we-were-on-a-break type situation. They were flat out broken up. So… I give Logan a pass here, because I don’t think he did anything wrong. And with him “having to have known” how much Veronica hated Madison and why… I don’t necessarily agree. I think he, obviously, knew that Veronica hated Madison but not necessarily the why (which, to be fair, while Madison WAS a terrible person, having her being blamed by Veronica for her rape while Dick gets a free pass is just… is flat out wrong. she’s mad at Madison because Madison DIDN’T get raped and that’s… not cool at all) and I don’t think Logan went out specifically to nail Madison. I think it was probably a drunken party and she came on to him while he was weak and he had a moment that he immediately wished he could take back. It happens. So yes, I think Veronica was justified - because she doesn’t NEED to justify her actions for us, and no I don’t think Logan did it on purpose or set out to hurt Veronica. I don’t blame either of them for what they did. I blame the writers for taking the perfect breakup in Spit & Eggs, trashing it an episode later, throwing them back together for two episodes, and then breaking them up again just so Veronica could be “right” - which was the theme of season three. Just terrible hack-y writing. The Spit & Eggs breakup had so much potential for Veronica’s character growth, but… can’t make Veronica out to be not 100% right 100% of the time. Season three is the worst.

@mysilverylining-- Ohhh boy.  This debate usually gets interesting.   I can understand and empathize with Veronica’s heartbreak over Aspen.  I imagine it would hurt like a bitch knowing that the person you hate had their hands all over the person you love.  I’d probably want to throw up, too.  I also feel for Logan, because he did something stupid and impulsive that ended up ruining everything.  I don’t believe for a second that he did it to hurt Veronica or was even thinking about Veronica when it happened (Kendall, is another story altogether). With that said, I know people don’t like comparing the actions of one character to those of another, but I do think it’s relevant.  There’s a strong case of “Do what I say, not what I do.” when it comes to Veronica and Logan.   After Weevil burned down Logan’s house and tortured him (she at least knew about the fire), Veronica arranged not one, but TWO jobs for him.  Blatantly showing Logan that his enemies aren’t her enemies.  On top of that, although Duncan wasn’t Logan’s enemy, he was the person who would hurt him the most to see Veronica with two weeks after their breakup.  So I guess I feel like Veronica doesn’t really have a case for demanding Logan’s loyalty two months after their breakup, when she hasn’t demonstrated that kind of loyalty or sensitivity herself.

@catalina-infanta-- Also, Im not really all that convinced that Veronica was very upfront with Logan about her feelings about Madison (and why). She is often not very communicative.

@kerali-- I’m going to try to keep this to two or three points.  First, I think Logan’s motivation for sleeping with Madison had nothing to do with Veronica.  Madison was part of Logan’s social group and had been for years.  They all went to Aspen for Christmas and all likely had partied together for a long time.  For Logan, she was there and likely the aggressor for a very drunk and depressed Logan who had just broken up with the woman he loved right before the holidays, which he likely hated at that point.  The reason I think this is because he didn’t do anything with it to hurt her, which he was more than capable of doing.  I don’t think he ever was in relationship with anyone to hurt Veronica, but he had been willing to use his relationships with other women to push her buttons (Kendall especially). Veronica compartmentalizes to deal with all of the trauma that had happened to her and when Logan did try to talk about Shelly’s party, she shut it down and said she forgave him, but really she didn’t deal with it at all.  As far as Logan likely knew, she was drugged and had sex with Duncan, until Cassidy’s revelation.  It’s unlikely that she would have opened up enough to him for him to understand exactly how everything happened, so while he know’s Madison is awful and that Veronica hates her, it’s unlikely that he knew everything that was done and likely sees her as being about the same as Shelly, Caitlyn, and other 09′er girls that were mean in high school.  I think Madison had it out for Veronica because she’s an awful, entitled person that was also pretty jealous of Veronica dating Duncan and Logan.  Veronica also never told Logan exactly how she found out it was Madison. Veronica doesn’t need justification to break up with Logan.  She found herself in a relationship that she didn’t want to be in and at that point, they were likely doomed anyway.  They got together but didn’t deal with their own issues or what broke them up.  Veronica wants control (in her words, intimacy) and Logan is too dangerous because he sees her.  She can’t share herself with him, because she knows that he knows her and can get through her walls that have allowed her to survive.  For him to know her secrets too, would give him too much control and she can’t deal with that.  And it was best for Logan too.  He needed validation and to be loved, and Veronica couldn’t do that for him, as much as she talked about intimacy, she never told him she loved him.  Again, it was too much for either of them and they didn’t have the support from others or authority figures who should have been the ones to teach them how to deal with the trauma in their lives, or who could teach them to be an equal partner in a relationship.

@winifredburkle-- I want to thank @fatherjerusalem for everything he said here and commend him for saying it so eloquently because when I read this ask the fandom two hours ago I went into a fucking rage blackout because I can not believe it’s 2017 and yet we’re still beating this dead horse. Fact is, as Jer said above, Veronica can break up with Logan for whatever damn reason she pleases whether it be because she suspects him of murder, thinks his actions of late have been deplorable, or yeah because he slept with someone (when they weren’t together) and she doesn’t think she can get past it. That’s her right within the relationship, just like Logan had every right to break up with her in 3x09. Now, as for this “Logan intentionally hurting Veronica” bullshit it’s just that– bullshit. Let’s break it down: 1. First off, and I know this might seem shocking to some of y’all, but Logan’s world doesn’t actually revolve around Veronica. Expecting him to sit down and map out how his actions/choices might directly affect her at any given point is ludicrous. (Same with Veronica sitting down and weighing out how Logan might react. It’s not realistic).   2. People like to bring up the fact that Logan knows Veronica was roofied “by Madison” and that he should therefore hate Madison on Veronica’s behalf, but let’s look a closer look at the events surrounding 1x21. • Veronica accuses Logan of maybe having raped her and says that if it was him she’ll make him pay. • Veronica then finds out from Carrie Bishop that it was Duncan and she has her confrontation with Duncan. Veronica immediately goes to Wallace and tells him everything. • Veronica goes home, invites Logan over, tells him she’s sorry and tells him everything that happened. At this point Veronica doesn’t know that Madison passed her the roofied drink at the party, so it’s not something she can share with Logan. • They go to Logan’s, the surprise party happens, Veronica finds out that Madison passed her the roofied drink. Then her and Logan make out and she finds the camera in poolhouse, assumes the worst, and splits. • AKA WE NEVER FUCKING SEE VERONICA TELL LOGAN THAT MADISON IS  “””””RESPONSIBLE””””” FOR VERONICA DRINKING THE GHB SO HOW THE FUCK • like..i guess maybe everyone is assuming that she told Logan at some point after? but like?? when? when she was accusing him of murder, when he was in jail, when he was on trial, when he was burning down buildings and lying to her and she was breaking up with him???? • Also, so Veronica tells Logan that it was a misunderstanding between her and Duncan that night and then she starts dating Duncan again like…a month ish or less after she breaks up with Duncan. Also, as someone pointed out on a different thread responding to this ask, Veronica is cordial(ish) towards Dick even after knowing his role in what happened to her, and at school she doesn’t act any more or less ~bitchy~ towards Madison either. So all this almost super sounds like…Logan had no fucking idea Veronica hated Madison as much as did (based on her behavior and the fact that we never see her tell him about Madison’s “role” at shelley’s !!!) so at the he most just thought they didn’t get along - if he fucking bothered to think about it and why??? would he – , which largely didn’t matter because Veronica had like….five or less people she actually considered her friend during high school and fucking Logan wasn’t even one of those people most days. • 3. When Veronica is forcing/cajoling/whatever fucking word you want to use for it information out of Logan during Poughkeepsie, Tramps, and Thieves, Logan is visibly uncomfortable and calls Veronica out on her shit several times. (Veronica insists she wants to know so they can be more open with each other and Logan essentially says that if she wants them to get to that place she should let it go). When he admits he slept with someone during their break up he uses the term “horrible girl” and says that the unnamed girl “meant less than nothing to him”. He also goes on to say that “he couldn’t regret it more”  and “thinking of it makes him ill”. He’s talking about Madison here, and he isn’t saying this stuff because Veronica knows he’s talking about Madison and he’s trying to save face/avoid a fight. He’s saying it because that’s how he feels. Sounds 0% to me like someone who was ~intentionally trying to hurt her~ • 4. Also!!!! in Poughkeepsie, Tramps, and Thieves– Veronica forgives Logan right away for what happened and says she loves him anyway. It’s only when she finds out about Madison that she gets disheartened and breaks up with him. That CLEARLY SHOWS that this isn’t a Veronica/Logan issue, it’s a Veronica/Madison issue. This is also emphasized in the episode where Veronica has Weevil steal Madison’s car– that episode shows that Veronica is only mad at Madison (because her issues with her rose to the surface again)– not that she’s mad at Logan. • 5. and THIS “I blame the writers for taking the perfect breakup in Spit & Eggs, trashing it an episode later, throwing them back together for two episodes, and then breaking them up again just so Veronica could be “right”” I think Veronica’s reaction to finding out Logan slept with Madison directly illustrates the point Logan was making when he broke up with her, saying that he doesn’t measure up to the person she wants him to be. It’s a shame that the writers didn’t focus on what Logan was saying, and how Veronica finally maybe recognizes what Logan was getting at, and had them work on themselves as individuals. If they had framed “Madison-gate” with that that lens (and not immediately thrown Logan and Veronica into relationships right after???) this conversation probably wouldn’t cause rage blackouts and also I don’t think we’d still be having it. • TL;DR– let Logan Echolls fucking live!!!!

@petpluto-- The thing with this is - Weevil is Veronica’s friend. It is a more complex relationship between the three of them, because Weevil is one of the people who was there for Veronica when people like Logan weren’t, someone who will come and get her if she calls, no questions asked. It isn’t as cut and dried as, “Veronica got two jobs for Logan’s enemy”. It’s Veronica got two jobs for her friend, who has a hate-semi-hate relationship with Logan. Veronica is loyal to both of them, in different ways. Same with Duncan. He was Veronica’s first boyfriend; he was stable when Logan was not. It isn’t a guy she started dating knowing it would hurt Logan. It’s a guy she started dating again, separate from Logan. Logan had no prior loyalty to Madison, not in the way Veronica does to Weevil and to Duncan. That doesn’t mean that he was intentionally hurting Veronica, but I don’t know what enemies of Logan’s Veronica prioritized above him that she didn’t already have a prior relationship with, and loyalty to, herself. And Veronica kept socializing with Dick, probably at least partially because she recognized that Logan had that same kind of loyalty to him as she had to Weevil.

@mysilverylining-- Don’t get me wrong.  I don’t disagree with any of that.  I’ll defend Veronica’s right to date Duncan post-breakup as much as I’ll defend Logan’s right to sleep with Madison.  I’ll defend her right to find employment for Weevil.  My post above wasn’t about placing fault on Veronica for those actions.   At the same time, Veronica showed zero sensitivity to Logan’s feelings while dating Duncan.  Specifically, I’m referring to the PDA behavior in FBLA class that would have been inappropriate in a school setting even if the broken-hearted ex wasn’t sitting in the same class.  That had to feel like a slap in the face to Logan after the sneaking-around in S1 in the name of protecting Duncan’s feelings.  And we know Logan felt like nothing in her eyes, because he had to ask her to pretend her dog’s life was at stake.   Again, I don’t feel that Veronica was obligated to make concessions to Logan’s feelings after their breakups, or to tiptoe around the way she had with Duncan.   But after learning about Madison, Veronica acted as if Logan had broken some kind of code.  She spent S2 demonstrating to Logan how very little he mattered to her post-breakup (not her actual feelings, obviously).  So for her to expect Logan to base his choices on how they might affect her in S3 seems unfair and hypocritical.  Do as I say, not as I’ve done, basically.

@notaparkerfan:   If Logan couldn’t get past what Weevil did to him, and that Veronica was still helping Weevil, he would be completely justified in breaking up with. He would not be entitled to retaliation on her for disloyalty while trying to be in a relationship with her.

I’m not advocating or supporting retaliation in the least.  I want these two happy, communicating, and in love.  

I’m just not impressed with Veronica’s handling of the situation.  The pain and nausea I can understand.  I can understand her asking for time to come to grips with the idea.  But I would have appreciated some self-reflection in the situation. As far as Weevil goes, pre-existing friendship or not, this guy tortured her boyfriend, and burned down his home including every last trace of his dead mother.  Maybe that’s not a friendship deal-killer in Veronica’s book.  I’d question what it says that it isn’t, while at the same time, I’m glad they remained friends. But Madison’s actions at Shelly’s party, are honestly more defendable than Weevil’s.  So again, she expects a loyalty from Logan that she isn’t willing to give.   Honestly, it would have been better all around if it was Dick who’d gotten between them.  They could have created a character-based storyline, if she’d told Logan about Dick’s responsibility in her rape, and he’d had to choose between his only loyal friend and his girlfriend.

@petpluto-- In season 2, Veronica broke up with Logan because he refused to stop his retaliatory actions against the 02ers, and took his inability to stop as an indication that he didn’t love her. Not like she loved him. Logan wasn’t obviously broken hearted - not to her, anyway. She didn’t get to see the puppy dog looks we did. She didn’t see him pining. Which is one of the issues we run into in discussions such as this (like when Logan is waiting innocently at the yacht for their date in season 1). Just because we know his true feelings doesn’t mean she does. So, with Duncan, he’s not her broken hearted ex. He’s her ex, who - for her own insecurities, her own issues, the fact that he is good at hiding his own emotions, etc. - doesn’t give a damn that she’s dating Duncan again. So, I would be more inclined to agree with you if Logan were obviously pining. But he isn’t, because that’s not who he is. And since that’s not who he is, I can’t blame Veronica for taking him at face value and acting accordingly. The only thing I do wish had been different about the Logan-Veronica-Duncan situation is I do wish Veronica had asked Duncan to try to talk to him, to see if his oldest and best friend could help get him on the right track even if she couldn’t. But even there, I understand her pulling completely away and entering into a self-protective mode. I completely agree about Dick, though. It would have made a much more multifaceted story, and created an actual moral dilemma for Logan in the way Madisongate never could, because he is obviously allowed to sleep with whomever he wants when he and Veronica are not together and when he never expects them to get back together. And Veronica is entitled to her emotional reaction to that, once they did start dating again, because Madison was one of the only people she told about her rape and was one of the people who didn’t believe her.

@notaparkerfan—I love @petpluto perspective.

@millenderj—I agree totally with winifredburkle!!!!!

@risssaar-- Yes to all of this but especially to the Spit & Eggs breakup being the perfect break up for them. That is one of those moments that it still hurts to look at because it was so painful and real and raw - Logan saying he’d always love Veronica but that he needed more from her and from a relationship, Veronica stoically going on until she finally breaks down in the shower - there was such potential for growth there that even though they were breaking up I was excited to see where things would go and then they messed all of that up. I LOATHE that Logan x Veronica’s final break up before the 9 years of radio silence was about Madison. I even hate the way that they framed the whole sleeping with Madison discussion onscreen. Offscreen there was talk of Veronica’s sexual jealously being at the root of it and I think exploring that more onscreen could’ve been interesting and led to Veronica working through a lot of her other hangups about Logan/relationships, which would’ve been pretty amazing to see. Instead I felt like the point of this break up was simply to break up Logan x Veronica in some sort of CW mandated introduce other love interest twist and that just ruined everything. Logan x Veronica had so many real issues to work through that the writers could mine that I am forever bitter that they felt into this mess instead.

@jennydb-blog-- Wow, many offended ppl here. No one said Veronica cant break up with Logan for whatever reason. I am just saying I would not have done it over something like that. And I love V, but she is horrible at communication. She barely tells people stuff. It is not always easy to guess what she thinks, or how she feels. Logan understands her quite intuitively compared to f ex Duncan, but he is still not a mind reader.

@lisawolfe80-- One thing that always puzzled me related to this was if Logan was supposed to know how much Veronica really despised Madison, why would he use her as his alibi in 3x3? If your significant other is already miffed at you, asking her to verify your alibi with her most hated nemesis seems crazy. And given her non-reaction to that scene, I tend to feel like he really didn't get how much Veronica may hate her. Always made me question how much he understood her feelings on that

@jennydb-blog-- Yeah, Logan had many douchey friends, and I don't think he realized how far Veronica's hatred for some of them ran. She could never really forgive the way they treated her after the whole Jake Kane-thing. While Logan has stayed friends with them throughout that, and seen that they also accepted his relationship with Veronica. So he sees it from a completely different vantage point. Veronica holds a grudge, but she can't really expect everyone else to.

@teenagegumshoe-- Am I too late to jump in? Is Veronica justified in breaking up with Logan? Yes. His actions caused her pain and she didn’t think she could be with him anymore. Is it ok for Veronica to be upset by this, or is she being a totally irrational headcase? For me, I think blaming Madison was a coping mechanism. • She could place the blame on a single guilty party (instead of coping with the fact that all of her former friends violated her/let it happen) • Madison was someone she already hated (instead of having to deal with “I love Logan & Duncan but they sexually assaulted me.”) • Madison wasn’t someone she had to deal with regularly (unlike Dick, who was Logan’s only loyal friend) I really wish Veronica had dealt with these issues on the show. However, while blaming Madison is not rational, response to trauma often isn’t. I can’t dismiss her feelings, especially considering how much she has already forgiven/ignored regarding Shelley’s party. Did Logan know how much Veronica hated Madison? Well, let’s look at their conversation (thanks to vmtranscripts.com) LOGAN:  It wasn’t information that you had a right to know. I knew you wouldn’t be able to deal with the Madison thing. VERONICA: [with increasing anger] Which thing are you talking about? The “she roofied me” thing or the thing when I stumbled to my car in the morning, wondering where my virginity was, and she’d written “slut” on my windshield? Was that what you thought I couldn’t deal with? I am so genuinely sick right now. If I could have eaten anything today, I’d be throwing up all over your floor. Logan shows no surprise or shock at Veronica’s response, which includes some pretty serious accusations. If this was new information, I feel like Logan would have responded with a  “wait, what? MADISON roofied you?”. To me, that suggests that he’s aware of the sequence of events, he knows Veronica’s feelings and he purposefully omitted the name of his sex partner in Poughkeepsie, Tramps and Thieves because of it. Did Logan choose Madison as a sex partner to get back at Veronica? No, I don’t think so. The two of them run in the same social circles, and it probably just happened organically. Season 3 Logan wasn’t really vicious, just mopey. It may have crossed his mind, but I don’t think it’s the reason it happened. (I will say that I hate it when people claim that Madison must have preyed on a drunk, depressed Logan and put the blame for the encounter on her. Remember his hookup with that girl on the beach, who he called cheap but still accepted a blowjob from? Logan doesn’t need to be wasted to sleep with someone he looks down on).

@krristenbell-- im with V on this. I love Logan but he must’ve known how much pain Madison had caused Ronica, and (this may sound bad) but i think Logan might have chosen Madison purposely to make a jab at V. However, i don’t think he thought he’d hurt Veronica as much as he did

@saluteyourshorts-- I honestly think it's almost as bad as if he had cheated on her. Like you said he knew exactly how much she hated Madison and about her part in what happened at Shellys party. I can't believe that he didn't think about her and how much it would hurt her when he decided to sleep with Madison.

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf 3x12 #atf logan #atf veronica #atf madison #vm meta #meta 3x12 #meta logan #meta veronica #meta logan x veronica #atf logan x veronica #meta madison #madisongate #logan echolls

[vmheadquarters]

ASK THE FANDOM

Here’s the latest Ask the Fandom from a lovely anonymous follower:

In the Thousand Kisses Deep scene from 3x11, what was Veronica’s motivation for asking if they could get to a place of intimacy?

Like was she just dangling what L wanted most? Would she be willing to be vulnerable to obtain intimacy? I’m legitimately curious what she wanted.

Also it’s interesting that Logan doesn’t ask for any reveals. Why didn’t he? What does it say about who he is?

Please reblog and add your opinions. We’ll compile responses in a few days.

Have another Ask the Fandom question? Send us a note!

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf 3x11 #atf logan #atf veronica #atf logan x veronica

[vmheadquarters]

ASK THE FANDOM

Here’s the latest Ask the Fandom question from a wonderful anon follower:

Did Logan and Parker have sex? If so, was he the first guy she slept with after her rape? And, despite Mac's "one woman red light district" comments, was Parker a virgin before her rape?

Please reblog and add your opinions. We’ll compile responses in a few days?

Have another Ask the Fandom question? Send us a note!

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #vm ask the fandom #atf 3x14 #atf logan #atf parker #atf logan x parker

[vmheadquarters]

ASK THE FANDOM--RESPONSES

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom question: 

How long, if ever, would it have taken “our Veronica” to break out of her Pink Veronica shell if Lilly hadn’t died? How would the relationships within the Fab Four be different or the same compared to flashbacks if Lilly wasn’t killed?

And here’s what you had to say:

@endlessly-besotted--Personally, I think she never would have broken out of her shell. From what little we have seen of Veronica before Lilly’s death, it seems like she is content to fill the role of sidekick. Once Lilly is gone, that’s when Veronica is forced to step out from behind Lilly’s shadow and begin to redefine who she is without Lilly’s influence.

@minipsychologist--I think she was already breaking out. She is the one that willingly helped make fake id’s, and she didn’t shy away from looking at naked pictures (she blushed and acted shocked, but she did not avert her eyes). She was taking notes from Lilly, she just kept in to herself. Overall, you don’t get her sass and wit overnight. It takes years to get to that level, so I truly believe that she was on the cusp of letting it all out.

I believe that Duncan played a bigger role in who she was rather then Lilly. I feel like Lilly knew Veronica as the kick ass soccer player pre-Duncan and then Duncan era Veronica tamed herself down to be what Duncan needed (he def. had a type, and Meg and pre-series Veronica were it), and Lilly wasn’t the biggest fan of that. While we don’t see it, Duncan gives off those vibes of being the boyfriend that states “you look so pretty with long hair”, “I like you in pastels”, “you look so much better when you’re fully covered up”, etc. I can see Veronica falling for that/not knowing that it’s not the healthiest relationship.

If Lilly hadn’t died, and Duncan/Veronica stayed broken up, Veronica would have ended up a lot closer to who she is during the series pretty quickly.

@cheshirecatstrut--Personally, I always assumed Pink Self-Effacing Sidekick Veronica was just a phase. It’s how V behaved as a young, hard-working, well-behaved have-not hanging with glamorous and charismatic haves. She was a little starstruck pre-series, and still learning self-possession.

We can already see, in the season 1 flashbacks, hints of a more assertive and confident Veronica–in the way she cuts Yolanda off at the knees, in the way she crushes on and sabotages her best friend’s boyfriend. She might not have adopted the androgynous styling and penchant for detective work if Lilly hadn’t died, and she hadn’t been raped; her appearance and lifestyle choices might have stayed conventional. But I think eventually, and certainly after Lilly went off to college, she would have grown more sexual and social confidence and come into her own.

And I do honestly believe Logan and Veronica would have ended up dating regardless. The attraction and compatibility were always there–Veronica had  the vengeful mean-girl tendencies Logan admires from the start, he’s the boy most like her beloved father. And the Kanes always planned to move on to more-far-flung and fancier lives…to them, Logan and V were temporarily-entertaining toys.

@iamjmgardner--I think that it’s important to remember that while Lilly’s murder and the ensuing case played a huge role in Veronica’s transformation, her sexual assault, etc. Veronica was still living her life as the child of an alcoholic.

The books give us more perspective on this to see that Lianne’s drinking had always been present in Veronica’s life–had always been a problem in the Mars family. Her drinking didn’t start up once Keith went after Jake–Lianne was always struggling with her own demons.

Knowing this, I think Veronica finds a welcome distraction and solace in the FabFour. I think Lilly’s problems with her parents help Veronica take her mind off of her own problems and Lilly’s wildness allows Veronica to play-act the more “normal, sweet, pretty in pink” teenage girl that she *thinks* she wants to be. Veronica’s problem has always been denying who she really is because “normal” seems easier or better than the truth. I think the version we see of Veronica pre-series was no more the “real” Veronica then the girl we see at the start of the movie. It was the part she was playing during those crucial middle-to-high school years trying to be normally while her mother continued to drink, her parents continued to fight, and she desperately wished her life were normal.

Then, when everything happens with Lilly, she’s heartbroken. Her mom becomes more public with her drinking and eventually splits. Logan starts to highlight all the imperfections in her life because he’s a master at it, and Veronica gets angry because she can’t go on pretending any more. She’s going to have to embrace the truth of her life mess and all, rebuild, and move forward. She does this successfully throughout S1.

 ♥✰_Nat♔Nat_✰ ♥‏ @NatNat (via Twitter)--Honestly I think that this is a no-brainer. Lily's death was needed for Veronica's character progression. She became stronger and more badass while in search for lily's killer.

cattyk8‏ @catty_k8 (via Twitter)-- I like to think of the evolution out of Pink Veronicaness as a question of causation rather than inevitability? Maybe if nothing life-altering happened, she'd have stayed pink. But she was always smart & probably always snarky (if secretly so—possibly why Lilly kept pushing her).

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf veronica #atf lilly #atf au #vm meta #meta veronica #meta lilly #meta veronica x lilly #meta duncan #meta duncan x veronica #meta logan #meta logan x veronica #logan echolls