#disappointed honestly. like post 4x03 i was so excited to see where they were going with it because it was honestly like the Worst Possible

[brookheimer]

from the succession podcast it sounds like kieran thinks roman has successfully pushed down the voicemail/possible guilt about logan’s death and is genuinely like .. not thinking about it, which i find really surprising honestly. is that really not going to come back? trying to figure out whether this is a “pre-grieved” situation (read: obviously a failing attempt at repression) which was my original take, of course, but the fact that kieran says, like, “i’ve actually thought about that” makes me think it’s not something that will come up in future episodes — if repressed guilt/fear/self-loathing ab possibly causing logan’s death is part of roman’s ‘arc’ this season, why would kieran say like ‘oh i’ve actually thought about this!’ like, that kinda makes it sound like it never comes up again, so kieran’s come up with his own take. but i mean… we’re supposed to think roman “yeah i pre-grieved” [one episode later] “i’m dead. i’m gone. it’s over for me” roy successfully pushed down the fact that his last ‘interaction’ with his dad was calling him a cunt over voicemail (his first time standing up to him Ever) which logan may or may not have heard before his death — and may or may not have CAUSED that death (we know the phone was found in the toilet, after all)??? successfully pushed it down my ass

#felt like it was such an ingenious direction for roman to go in — feeling like the one time he stood up to dad he killed him — #heartbreaking obviously but so so so full of potential #if roman genuinely is not feeling guilty about logan’s death and that guilt doesn’t come up in the folllowing eps ill be a little #disappointed honestly. like post 4x03 i was so excited to see where they were going with it because it was honestly like the Worst Possible #Situation for roman — logan’s death wouldve been devastating in any circumstances but the way it played out felt so tailored to be the worst #possible way it could’ve fine for rome…. idk man. i was so impressed w how it was like each kid’s nightmare. like the circumstances for each #character were the most painful they could’ve possibly been for that specific character. and rome in particular #like that was some of the most ingenious character writing i’ve seen in a while i was just in awe of how multilayered that experiejce was #for rome in particular like it was just so perfectly conceived to fuck him up the maximum amount possible while not making any of it feel #shock value y or whatever in the slightest #so like… if all of that ends up being kind of forgotten other than Logan Died…. #i will be sad lol. what was the point of all that then!!!!! #it just feels kinda surprising — not bc it’s not following thru on an arc or a detail or whatever but bc on a human level it feels like smth #that would haunt a person for the rest of their life esp someone like roman esp bc it was his dad #succession has plot holes and forgets threads and stuff but typically it’s good at keeping the internal emotional logic of each character #intact so i’m just kinda surprised by the possibility that the whole ordeal might not have any more influence on rome than any other #hypothetical way logan could’ve died. idk. rambling #succession #roman roy

[agent-85]

Hi! So I'm really late ^^' but I just saw the ep and what a deception... I got messages before telling me how awesome it was and I really don't get it. I mean the lmd arc was amazing with how FS was pushed to the front and their story was build up perfectly for them to have their win and save everyone for once and not just used as support. And again writers messed up everything with the cheapest twist ever with LMD!Fitz and make it a Daisy moment, she always hijack storyline, I can't stand it(1)

(2) anymore. After the will-thing, then the fact the FS were mostly put aside from the hive storyline at the end again for daisy, then this... I don't understand the writing decision in this show, they just aim for "shocking" twists at the expense of the story. Ironically I hated the Ghost rider storyline and was saved by 4x08 from quiting and now I loved this arc and 4x15 makes me want to quit... Maybe the hiatus is a good thing at the end. Sorry its looks like a rant, but its just deception.:)

They there, anon!

I gotta say, I completely disagree. I think this last episode is easily one of the top five in the series, if not in the top three. But everyone has their own opinion, of course!

But @consoledacup explained this pretty well in this post. So let me just add to that! Sometimes things don’t happen the way we expect them to, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Yes, I agree that it would have been cool to see FitzSimmons save the world together! And you’re right that they set up FitzSimmons perfectly for this arc. But I don’t think this was a deception. A twist, sure, but a fair one. They also set it up pretty well that Fitz could be an LMD, which is why half the fandom called it ahead of time. Jemma was the only one who COULDN’T have been the LMD, because she was with Davis and had an alibi. Everyone else was alone at some point. Also, just the way it was shot, we tracked her, she was the first to get to the meeting place, etc. 

So going into the episode, I felt the chances of Fitz being an LMD were 50/50. And, I mean, there’s no way that Radcliffe was not going out of his way to grab Fitz. Fitz is a son figure to him, as well as his greatest threat. Now he has him, and Fitz can’t hurt him. Best possible scenario for Radcliffe.

So, I mean, it really could have gone either way, but here’s why this way isn’t cheap: it made sense and felt true to character. 

The main problems with 3A are the logical inconsistencies/plot holes (Will hates science but is an astronaut and therefore a scientist, Will should be like 40 at least, the Hive we meet on Maveth isn’t close to the one on Earth, Jemma has PTSD and then not and then does, etc.) and then they took the love triangle thing WAY too far (which took away Jemma’s agency and made Fitz a martyr). Jemma wasn’t just out of character, she was a different character every episode of every scene depending on what they needed. I mean, retroactively giving her a crush on Ward? Come on. We don’t need her to be portrayed as a person who falls for whomever happens to save her. 

In contrast, Jemma (and Fitz) have been very consistent in 4B. Jemma has been loving and supportive while still admitting that Fitz made mistakes. She’s against Fitz looking into AIDA, but she is still reasonable and changes her mind when Fitz explains what’s going on. Before and after she finds out, she’s on Fitz’s side, trying to help him through Radcliffe’s betrayal as best as she can. Meanwhile, Fitz sees that he let Racliffe manipulate him, and he feels more and more guilty about his contribution as things get worse. How great is it that he has Jemma still by his side! Still reassuring him! Telling him that he’s good, and whatever happens, they’ll fix it together.

Now, that Fitz has been kidnapped, it’s up to Jemma to pick up the pieces. I’m super excited to see that, because it’s the opposite of what happened in 3A. Jemma is determined, she’s in charge, and she’s going to get her man. What she’s doing lines up with the person she’s been since season one, and I feel like it’s about time! Jemma is brave and selfless, and it;s about time she gets to actually be that on screen, for goodness sake. She gets the short end of the stick so many times! And since I was disappointed that Fitz almost went to another dimension and Jemma didn’t even know about it until after, I am pumped to see Jemma go into action this time.

As for Daisy, I didn’t see it that way. I think Daisy and Jemma were pretty equally heroic on this one, each playing to their strengths. And I mean, that whole conversation between them is just Daist telling Jemma how great she is and how much she and Fitz to belong together. When I watched it for the first time, and Daisy starts saying that there’s one thing she knows for sure, I expected her to talk about duty, or honor, or being the shield. Instead, she tells Jemma that she wants Jemma and Fitz to get their happy ending, and she’s willing to fight for it. I mean, Daisy is focused in FitzSimmons! That’s pretty significant.

I believe that Agents of SHIELD is best as an ensemble show, so I hate it when it turns into The Daisy Show. Not because I don’t like Daisy, but because every single character is just as great as she is, and they all have fantastic chemistry with each other, and I like to see the bounce off each other. You take ANY two main characters, literally ANY two, and you lock them up in a room together, and you get something amazing. I don’t care if it’s Coulson and Bobbi, or May and Mack, or what. This cast and these characters are fantastic. So, this episode, you basically get Daisy and Jemma locked in a room, and it’s probably one of the best scenes of a pretty great episode. I loved it! I love their friendship!

And yes, you’re right to say that FitzSimmons HAVE been set aside for Daisy before. It HAS been The Daisy Show before. So I understand where you’re coming from. BUT! They are going into this as equal partners. They’re going to save the team together. And already, we see that Jemma has her mission, and Daisy has hers. They’re both in something of a pickle, and they’ll have to figure their way out. If they were together, Daisy might overshadow Jemma, but since they’re apart, it’s looking like they’ll both get their chance to shine. Again, I’m super excited.

And I mean, I admit that they could easily mess this up. I don’t want Space Boyfriend 2.0, for example, That would be a mistake and a waste of time. (The girl in the limo, BTW, is either Agnes or his mother. If you look, it’s an older woman’s hand. I highly doubt that it’s a love interest.) I don’t want Daisy to take over. And let me tell you, Jemma better not make some guy do all the saving for her, because then I will be pretty upset. 

There are definitely reasons to be wary, anon. But so far they’ve been very careful and consistent with setting it up, and if they just continue on their own path, it’s going to be amazing. I’m trying to not get my hopes up too high, but I’m not going to criticize the writers for making a mistake they haven’t made yet.

I understand that everyone reacts differently to the same story! There’s no better example of that than when I went to NYCC and saw a 4x03 before it aired, an anon asked me if there was Philinda in the episode, and I honestly didn’t remember. And there’s actually quite a bit of Philinda in it! But I wasn’t looking for Philinda, I was looking for FitzSimmons, so I missed it. I’m sure a Philinda shipper wouldn’t have missed it! So, we all watch the show and see different things, and that’s how we know that we’re not robots. So I respect your take on the episode, anon. I hope I was able to let you see it from my point of view.

#Jemma deserves better #And I hope she's going to get it! #Meta of Agent 85 #Anons of Agent 85 #Answers of Agent 85