#doesn't mean every single story developed in this intrinsically flawed society has to say something about all of it

[ladyluscinia]

I do have to appreciate (?) how hard the haters work to ensure their definition of bigotry is Izzy-escape proof. I mean, yeah, if you are saying that it's functionally impossible for him to not be some flavor of bigoted because technically the very concept of having socially informed ideas about ways to be a man and men's behavior is intrinsically linked to homophobia and misogyny and racism, and therefore expressing any negative opinion on how a male character is behaving counts as such...? Alright then? Telling a man not to sob over a breakup (even with a hypothetical woman!) is homophobia AND misogyny if you consider the social reason that would draw attention as a behavior to criticize and our society's collective idea of masculinity. You've defeated me with your social studies thesis logic on Every Insult Under The Sun Can Be Traced To Bigotry 🤷‍♀️

But in practice I still just don't think it's worthwhile to say the antagonist with the literal raison d'etre of not being 100% supportive and approving of the protagonists in order to cause conflict is being irredeemable or violently bigoted by *checks notes* insulting men in the story about men. Just like I don't think Stede or Edward or the rest of the crew are being irredeemable bigots by also having socially informed ideas about masculinity???

Like, looking at it that way Stede is a clear misogynist (and more, but we'll stick with just the misogyny bit). I don't think he even realizes he is one, but the whole Mary sequence and just being a man in the 1700s makes it pretty obvious. He might do less misogyny in the future on account of just not interacting with women (suspect behavior tbh), but fundamentally he has not remotely addressed or deconstructed the misogynistic ideas that shape his entire perspective. Honestly, he's probably not going to at this point. They drew attention to his worst behaviors under the framing of just kinda being a self-centered ass, made him realize he fucked up and apologize to the woman he hurt over the course of about 15 minutes, and then sent them both toward happier endings.

Is this story saying that misogyny is actually fine and misogynists are admirable and likable people? Or that misogyny is just a surface level form of bigotry that doesn't really affect your attitude toward women once you stop being an ass? Or, maybe, is the story just not about misogyny???

And if it's not about misogyny despite being literally incapable of avoiding characters expressing misogyny (since in reality that's not so cleanly excised), then why on earth does it have to be about homophobia? Is it just because the leads are gay men?

Like, I'm sorry, but media for 5-year-olds has long been able to tell stories about antagonists learning that it's okay for boys to cry and be emotionally vulnerable and it's mean to make fun of them without insanely complex layers of deconstructing homophobia or intensive requirements to overcome internalized biases. I bet OFMD can teach that lesson without explicit, targeted homophobia. No one is denying in serious meta that Izzy has been an ass? Or that character development to be less of an ass is the logical next step?

I'm not disputing their assertion that Izzy is homophobic because I think the writing team accomplished the impossible and erased homophobia from the background hum of existence for this one TV show. I'm disputing it because the essential second half of said assertation is that this is a meaningfully included and emphasized part of his characterization that will typically justify his future karmic punishment for bigotry and/or require much greater redemptive effort of him to get any sort of neutral-to-happy ending on the table. That's why they care about it. The effect on the story!

If the story isn't about homophobia, then no, the antagonist doesn't usually have "homophobic" as a character trait I need to account for.

And twisting that fairly straightforward narrative interpretation into some kinda gotcha about "So you deny insulting gay men with gendered insults has shades of homophobia?!?" is - to borrow a phrase Lucius used against Stede - "kind of a bitchy question."

#our flag means death #been tossing around ways to word this for a long time #mainly because i'm fully aware this kind of slippery technicality is pretty much universally a bad faith gotcha for a hated character #but like. yeah reality is a mess of interconnected biases and bigotries that all build off one another to justify A excluding B #doesn't mean every single story developed in this intrinsically flawed society has to say something about all of it #does stede know women are people? does anyone want the next two seasons to tackle stede learning women are people? #tbh i would much rather just say he gets it via the 'don't be a self-centered ass' metaphor #ofmd meta #izzy hands ofmd #stede bonnet ofmd #sorry stede but your track record with women? not great 😔 #homophobia #ladyluscinia #no cut because nowhere made sense