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untitledtallgeesepodcast · 4 years

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[TRANSCRIPT] Episode 0: The Anime They Once Saw (Or Didn’t See)

Kat 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Untitled Tallgeese Podcast, a podcast where four of us will watch Gundam Wing and then tell you all about Gundam Wing. My name is Kat, I write about comics on the internet, and I will be your episode moderator for today.

Mallory 0:17

And I'm Mallory, and I also write about comics.

Cathy 0:20

I'm Cathy, I don't write about comics. I am actually a lawyer, which sucks.

All 0:26

[laughter]

Caitlin 0:28

I am Caitlin. I'm a PhD researcher in Tokyo right now working on Japanese film. Yeah.

Kat 0:33

Extremely legit.

Caitlin 0:35

Are we?

Cathy 0:36

and we're all here to talk about the Gundam Wing.

Kat 0:38

[crosstalk] I mean we might be.

Kat 0:41

We are here to talk about Gundam Wing, the maybe not critically acclaimed, but fandom, okay, audience favorite anime that was released in 1995 in Japan and then made its way to the US in March 2000 on Toonami. So, we're going to talk about our fandom history and our history with the show Gundam Wing and I guess I will kick that off. So I-- I grew up watching anime because my dad is a huge nerd. So we were obviously watching Toonami. And the promos blew my mind. My friends and I all got really into it in middle school. Then we discovered fanfiction and we started with Heero/Relena fan fiction. [Caitlin: Ugh.] And then then we realized people could be gay.

Caitlin 1:29

Uugh, thank god.

Kat 1:30

That opened up like, I know it was like the clouds parted. rainbows fell from the sky. We were like, Oh, wow.

Mallory 1:39

[singing] "A whole new world"

Kat 1:40

[laughter] And then I don't know. I wrote a lot of fanfiction posted it on FF dotnet, got into fandom and then stayed in fandom. So, Mallory?

Mallory 1:53

I didn't have cable growing up. So whatever anime exposure I got was like, whatever was on Saturday morning cartoons. So Digimon was my first fandom and I was really into that.

Kat 2:08

Hell yeah

Mallory 2:09

And that sort of like bled into Gundam Wing somehow, I don't really remember how. But I found my way to Gundam Wing, read a lot of fanfic, hadn't ever really watched the show. And then in high school, my friend had some like random episodes from the first season question mark. I have no idea. So I watched those, and really enjoyed that? But I have no idea what their context was, so I'm coming at this pretty, pretty new.

Cathy 2:44

So you have never watched it from beginning to end?

Mallory 2:47

No.

Cathy 2:47

Got it. This will be fun.

Mallory 2:50

I'm expecting to be really disapproving of all the adults in the room. I find that like, now that I'm watching anime about kids, I'm really protective of these kids like, "Hey, this is really unethical!"

Cathy 3:02

So I'm like Kat, I started watching anime when I was I think around Middle School. I had a friend who got me into Sailor Moon, then I think it was Dragon Ball that was on Toonami at the time? I can't really remember the chronology.

Kat 3:16

Yeah.

Cathy 3:17

But then they did the promos for Gundam Wing, so then I started watching that on Toonami. And it was my first mecha series. And my first Gundam series, I think it's a lot of people's first Gundam series in the United States.

Cathy 3:31

I have attempted to do similar projects to this multiple times where I go back and I rewatch, and I haven't really had the opportunity to actually finish those rewatches. But my memory of it is still kind of stuck of when I was in middle school slash high school. I did get into fandom, so I expect to remember a lot of inaccuracies about what happened. [laughter] Because a lot of what my facts have with this series are have now mutated and changed. But I was a huge Gundam Wing fan, I think it still remains my favorite of the Gundam series just because I have so many memories of it? But I really excited to talk to Mallory, about what you feel and your experiences because it's been so long since I've talked to somebody who actually has never seen the series and doesn't know the story. So I'm super excited about this.

Caitlin 4:24

Yeah!

Cathy 4:25

All right, Cait, tell us about your family history.

Caitlin 4:27

Yeah, so similar to all of us, I guess, I watched anime growing up. I got into Sailor Moon sort of through an accident of just happening to see a very specific episode on Toonami in like 1999, 1998 maybe. So after that, I got really into anime and really into the internet. I think I was very depressed as a child. [laughter] So I spend a lot of time online. I believe that like my my first memories of Gundam Wing are when it was on Toonami: Sailor Moon was on first and then Dragon Ball Dragon Ball Z, and then Gundam Wing. And then they also were showing like the quote unquote unedited versions late

Cathy 5:09

Yes!

Kat 5:09

Yes, the midnight run

Cathy 5:11

The midnight run Right.

Cathy 5:12

Yeah. So very specific memories of like, I think I was mainly attracted to the, like, team format of Gundam if that makes sense? [Cathy: Yeah yeah yeah!] where it was used to sailor Sailor Moon where you have a team of color coded characters. And I'd, at a younger age been really into Power Rangers, where you had a team of color coded characters. So the marketing of Gundam Wing really appealed. You know, cuz I was just a kid watching on TV, I never really, I don't know if I watched the whole thing as a kid, but I got really into the fandom. And by 2000, 2001, I already knew about gay stuff online.

Kat 5:48

Wow. Look at you early bloomer.

Caitlin 5:50

Yeah. So So I got really into the various Gundam Wing pairings, I think it was mainly, I was mainly a 3x4, I think as a child. I went through some, 1x2, and then 2x5 phases. [laughter]

Caitlin 6:09

I still am a big advocate for 2x5, I think it's underrated.

Kat 6:12

I'm a big 2x5.

Cathy 6:13

2x5 is a good pairing, it definitely is.

Kat 6:16

Yeah.

Cathy 6:16

It's a better pairing as an adult.

Kat 6:17

So okay, I think that's actually a pretty good bounce off. So these are the things we remember about Gundam Wing. It was marketed, like, I remember the Toonami marketing 'cause I was really hype for this show. They had like these really extreme commercials.

Caitlin 6:34

Yeah.

Kat 6:35

Um, and I thought the voice acting was good. I don't know, maybe we'll revisit that during this watch, to see if it still is,

Caitlin 6:43

[crosstalk] Was it dubbed?,

Cathy 6:44

[crosstalk] It was dubbed, yes.

Kat 6:44

But I was ready for it. It was dubbed.

Caitlin 6:46

It was dubbed. One thing with the with the Japanese voice acting though, is that it's every single famous voice actor from the 90s. And so you can, you can use Gundam Wing is like a six degrees of every single voice actor from the 1990s.

Caitlin 6:59

Oh, that's cool.

Mallory 7:00

I mean, there are a lot of big American or like, dub dub names on the dub side, too.

Cathy 7:06

One of the things that I remember very strongly about Toonami is that they had what I think we would now call anime music videos, AMVs.

Kat 7:16

Yeah

Cathy 7:17

But they would play

Caitlin 7:18

Yeah,

Cathy 7:18

These montage trailers, where they'd stich together all their different series. And as they accumulated more anime series, these became really, I think, cinematic and gripping tales, where they would kind of try to tell a story to be about, like bravery or honor or like,

Kat 7:36

It's like, plugged directly into my little 11 year old brain like, Whoa,

Cathy 7:40

Yes. And one of them was, I remember was called, like, "technological development" or something like that, that featured a lot of the Gundam Wing clips.

Kat 7:47

Oh, yeah, cuz you only download them from like, KaZaa, or whatever horrible thing I was putting into my computer.

Caitlin 7:52

Yeah. We gotta see if we can find those. [crosstalk] They must be online somewhere.

Cathy 7:56

They are online. And I think they actually came out with like, I think somebody had either like hand by hand remastered them.

Kat 8:03

[crosstalk] Oh sick.

Cathy 8:02

Or they created a remastered version of it. They're wonderful. But that's I think one of the things about Toonami that I remember really strongly was Gundam Wing kind of is one of their, like epitome of like, Cool Anime that I feel like Toonami did and what it did was like they stiched together all these different things Outlaw Star and Tenchi Muyo and all these other stories to create a story about teenage growth, which is kind of strange and also weirdly fitting at the end of the day about like where Gundam is in the whole universe.

Kat 8:07

I think that's one of the reasons it blew up so much here because the marketing was really intense. Like Toonami, like it sort of right at the beginning, like people were into Sailor Moon, Dragonball Z was getting big. And like the manga boom was sort of happening in bookstores. So contextually, I think, Cartoon Network knew what the hell they were doing. They were like, "We can market the hell out of this."

Caitlin 8:55

And also objectively speaking, Gundam Wing was one of their cooler series. Like, Sailor Moon is cool. Tenchi Muyo is not cool.

All 9:04

[laughter]

Kat 9:06

Yeah.

Caitlin 9:07

Even even if you love it, it's not really cool. Dragon Ball. Love it. I don't know if it's really cool. Gundam Wing had like a very strong -

Kat 9:14

[crosstalk] like the chad of animes

Caitlin 9:16

- adult aesthetic to it, even though it was like, relatively, well, relatively appropriate for like 12 year olds.

Kat 9:23

And they swore during the midnight show.

Caitlin 9:25

Oh yeah,

Kat 9:26

They swore and there was blood.

Caitlin 9:27

So it was very cool. And so I felt very adult watching it even though I didn't really understand what was going on because it's all this fake politics crap.

Kat 9:35

Yeah, I was gonna say I did do a rewatch in like, like, right after college, so it was probably around 2010 ish, maybe? And I don't think we finished the series, but it was like, wow, I used to think this was very deep. [laughter] And I thought all the people in it who are the adults like Mallory, you were mentioning earlier, like they're actually like 17 and 19

Cathy 10:01

Yes!

Kat 10:01

in this show. So watching it at the age of 21, I was like, "Ooh no, don't give these people anything."

Cathy 10:09

I was actually thinking about that. Because when you said Mallory, "oh, well, I become very protective of the children. I disapprove the adults," in my head of thinking "what adults?" [crosstalk, Caitlin: yeah what adults?] because actually, in Gundam Wing, there's a funny thing where people are either 15, 25 or like 70. And there's no in between and nobody really makes adult decisions. So it, That was one thing that really shocked me because as I go back to revisit it, I think, "Oh my god, I'm actually older than almost everybody in this series."

Caitlin 10:39

How old, how old is Treize supposed to be?

Cathy 10:41

He's like 23, or 24.

Kat 10:42

He's 19.

Cathy 10:43

No, Zechs is 19.

Kat 10:44

Oh, Zechs is 19. Right.

Cathy 10:47

I just the idea of giving people who, you know, would have either been in college or just graduate college in my worldview, huge robots.

Kat 10:58

I think the ages of all the characters gets obscured by the anime art style, you know?

Cathy 11:03

Yeah.

Kat 11:03

In a lot of anime fandoms.

Mallory 11:04

And when you're watching this, when you're a kid, you want to see yourself as the protagonist. So it makes sense that, you know, a 17 year old seems like old and cool, and I want to be that person. And then when you're 30, you're like, the 17 year old should not be at war.

Kat 11:23

Relevant is that we definitely watched Evangelion. That was our last series.

Caitlin 11:29

I don't know, I think, I think Heero Yuy is doing fine in war. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest, as a 30 year old, I think these kids are much better at war than I would be.

Cathy 11:39

Well, so that's what I find kind of interesting, is that I think this series actually... I don't, I know this wasn't the point but when I rewatched it recently, or just like the first couple of episodes, it seemed, it made a lot of sense, because they were like 15 or 24. Like the series, actually stitches together...

Caitlin 11:58

Yeah.

Cathy 11:58

...really well, because of how young they are, and kind of like the purity of feeling that they have, which I think is

Kat 12:05

Yeah, it is, like

Cathy 12:06

only maybe

Kat 12:07

like that [indistinguishable?]

Cathy 12:07

which I think is like only really, truly possible because I have to think of them as like 15 or 21 or 19 year olds. that is not at all when I took away when I was watching in high school. Right?

Mallory 12:21

Well, I mean, right.

Caitlin 12:22

Part of the ideology of Gundam in general is like trying to restore a form of hope, and youth to, like, young people growing up in Japan, who are the target audience for this, and this idea that, like, you still have the power to change the world, you still have the power to bring about peace in a way that you want, even though you're being manipulated and oppressed by all these crazy adults who make you pilot giant robots. So I think there's a significant, like part of the series is the fact that they are kids who have been recruited into child warfare, and now have to find some way out of that. And like my memory of the series is that even though most of, most of the decisions made are very bad, the kids in general are not making terrible decisions. They're making pretty good decisions.

Kat 13:12

Yeah, the pilots themselves...

Mallory 13:14

[crosstalk] Yeah

Kat 13:14

...are like doing the best they can be doing in that circumstance.

Cathy 13:17

[crosstalk] Exactly, exactly

Kat 13:19

But I think it's sort of interesting, 'cause it's like, to me Gundam Wing is definitely like a fandom era, because I think a lot of stuff exemplifies like...there's like a lot of tropes cycling through it. But also like, the series itself, is so perfectly...like, I think of it as a series that are so perfectly set up for fandom because there's a lot of like, here's my one episode mission, and we have to be at a safe house, I guess. And it's just like, a long interminable war. So there's like, a big, a lot of world building. Yeah, that creates all these spaces that sort of separate from all the political machinations of the series.

Caitlin 13:58

And that's also I think, a lot of what it was meant to be when it was created within the Gundam franchise like it was it was designed to have sort of a BL appeal to girls writing for comic market and that sort of thing. So it had like the setup of five hot guys who you could combine in various forms. And then also like Gundam itself, in general, it's designed to be and a sort of open universe that you can step into at various points, which also facilitates fandom engagement

Mallory 14:28

[crosstalk] literal fandom bait.

Caitlin 14:29

usually in the form, yeah, usually in the form of model collecting, which is like one of the main Gundam forms of fandom which we probably won't talk about too much on the show. But you, you kind of

Kat 14:41

Uh I've definitely built some Gundam models.

Caitlin 14:43

Yeah. Well, you will be the expert on that because I've never touched a Gundam model in my life. But that is like the big thing where you can you can get the model you can construct it, you can learn a little bit more about the, like, the technology and the different like details of the models and stuff like that. And it just gives you like a slight, like Little bit more of these like tiny narratives and that sort of what the fans are consuming rather than an overall plot that makes sense, which is not what Gundam has really.

Kat 15:11

So Gundam [Wing] has like the cool robots but also these hot boys in them.

Caitlin 15:15

That's what I want.

Mallory 15:16

I mean Well, that's exactly what I want to show right now. So it sounds perfect?

Kat 15:21

Honestly, yeah.

Mallory 15:23

I think Evangelion, sort of, because, Kat, you and I just finished -- or are almost finished with -- Neon Genesis Evangelion [Kat, crosstalk: we haven't done all the movies yet] which was also it was my first time [Cathy, crosstalk: Congratulations, laugh] watching the whole series...wow, grim

Kat 15:40

I also only consumed

Mallory 15:42

[crosstalk] grim

Kat 15:42

[crosstalk] I consumed it like piecemeal too

Mallory 15:44

And depressing

Kat 15:45

It was great.

Mallory 15:46

Very good but um grim.

Kat 15:50

Yeah it's pretty grim.

Cathy 15:52

Yeah, it's interesting to me because I feel like Evangelion doesn't make a lot of sense as a cultural product unless you've consumed a series like Gundam or its ancestors before watching it and yet Evangelion is a lot of people's introduction to giant robot series. So I always find that kind of interesting...

Caitlin 16:13

[crosstalk] It's very weird.

Cathy 16:14

because it, it is subversive, and I think it's subversive even if you don't know the tropes of the giant robot series, of which Gundam is perhaps a prime example. Gundam Wing...

Kat 16:27

So I was gonna ask that and like, would you say, since Evangelion is definitely a like the subversion of this genre, would you say Gundam Wing is like the type of series that it is subverting? Or do you think it's in a different place?

Caitlin 16:41

Gundam Wing and Evangelion came out the same year? Gundam Wing is in some ways a, it's already like a parody form of the original iteration of Gundam.

Kat 16:55

Okay, so it's--is it like, um, like the pure essence of teens-robots.

Caitlin 17:02

It's, it's more like, I feel like by the time of Gundam Wing, the tropes of the original Gundam series are so well set that a lot of things in Gundam Wing to, like the fans who watched the original Gundam or like later Gundams, seemed like a rehash but it was designed to bring in new fans. So something like Zechs Merquis is very clearly like a Char Aznable character. It's just sort of a reiteration of that.

Kat 17:29

So is it like a Star Wars, like a Star Wars sequel?

Caitlin 17:33

Like how the Force Awakens is kind of a rehash of yeah, of A New Hope. And then, but it still brings in a lot of fans and has appealing characters and good aesthetics

Kat 17:43

Right, yeah, I guess I think of them, the two shows, as sort of like, splitting the take on... like, what would you say is like the ur-mecha show?

Cathy 17:52

The original Gundam

Caitlin 17:54

Original Gundam?

Cathy 17:54

Yeah, Mobile Suit Gundam.

Caitlin 17:56

I mean, they're, they're older iterations, there's other robot shows. But I feel like when people think of mecha, the first thing they think of is Mobile Suit Gundam.

Cathy 18:06

So the way like I now think of Gundam Wing after the fact of experiences I have now is that like Gundam Wing is actually a perfect like K-Pop boy band way that they built it and so if you can kind of think of it like that, like it's, you need enough of the tropes and symbols, so that everybody watches it and immediately knows it's a Gundam series.

Cathy 18:30

Like the colors of Wing Gundam are so obviously

Kat 18:34

Yeah.

Cathy 18:34

a Gundam Mecca and you need that you can't get away from it. And same thing with like Zech's having a mask it the reason I think of it as being in in the Kpop industry is like there's a derivative sense. And that's animated by both like Merchandising, and advertising and what audiences want but at the same time, it's like this incredibly pure understanding of what makes us like things? And like when you get that when you really get it, like, it doesn't matter how like, quote, unquote manipulative or exploitative it can seem like you love it. And that's enough, right to make it like a thing that we all want to keep coming back to.

Mallory 19:12

And there's basically like, an archetype right? In all of the different characters like you have the more

Kat 19:18

Yeah, you have the serious one.

Mallory 19:20

That's what I was thinking.

Kat 19:21

Like, the goofy one.

Mallory 19:23

Yeah, the goofy one, the sort of mess

Kat 19:25

the ugly one,

Mallory 19:26

like really cute one.

Kat 19:29

Yeah, that's why I was thinking American boy bands cuz they all have to have like a type of heartthrob. Yeah, I'm a bad boy. I love death.

Caitlin 19:38

One of them's, one of them's a rapper.

Kat 19:40

Okay, so we talked a little bit about how we got into it. We talked a little bit about fandoms. And we touched on pairings, do we want to go into pairings at all? Or like our fave characters, or who we think our fave characters will be Before this rewatch?

Cathy 19:54

You know before we do that--Mallory, can you try to tell us what you think this series is about? I'm actually really curious, like before you do a complete viewing, like what? what is what is your understanding of what happens in Gundam Wing?

Mallory 20:08

Um, there's a long interminable war. These boys are recruited by some shadowy government whatever. And they're piloting these mecha. Uugh, I just remember Duo being really annoying.

Caitlin 20:28

[loud gasp] [laughter] [crosstalk] Oh my god.

Mallory 20:29

I mean, not annoying, like, being sort of...

Kat 20:32

Wow.

Mallory 20:33

...the one the pushy one like, he's the challenging one to Heero's "I'm serious and dour." Literally, I have the most broad strokes impressions of what this show is. I just know it looked really fucking cool every time I saw it in, like, a commercial and couldn't watch it.

Cathy 20:55

Fascinating.

Caitlin 20:57

Honestly, even having seen Gundam Wing, I'm not sure I could explain it much better. I don't remember who recruited them.

Mallory 21:03

Okay. Okay, that does make me feel better. Because I was like, Oh, I don't? Do I actually know what the show is? What am I getting myself into?

Caitlin 21:14

There's there's a lot of weird politics.

Mallory 21:17

Well, I'm really excited for that. And I don't mean that sarcastically. Like, I'm really excited to, to see what this world is like, because I remember, like images or impressions. But everything is like out of context. So it'll be cool to see what that context is. Like deja vu? Oh, I remember that. I've seen that in AMV.

Kat 21:48

I remember this from fics that just rewrite scenes from this show.

Mallory 21:55

Yeah, like, what do I know? What do I know of Gundam that is from fanfic only, or is actual canon? I'm curious to figure out.

Kat 22:10

I think everyone's a lot less obnoxious in canon.

Caitlin 22:14

That's true.

Mallory 22:15

Okay, okay.

Caitlin 22:16

This was a this was a really good fandom for the the fandom phenomenon of, you take a character's most, like, annoying trait, and you emphasize it like times 10 in your fanfic.

Cathy 22:28

Yes.

Kat 22:28

Yeah

Caitlin 22:28

Just so everybody knows you know what that character is like.

Kat 22:31

Heero's gonna threaten to kill everybody all the time, constantly.

Caitlin 22:34

"Omae o korosu."

Cathy 22:36

[laughing crosstalk] And so, it's funny that you guys mentioned safe houses, because actually, there are very few safe houses in the original series. In fact, I think there's like maybe one or two scenes ever, where they are all in a safe house provided by one of their allies. And it's a really fascinating trope, because it like pervades the fanfic? But I remember, that I remember was like a big deal, like, I went back and I was like, actually, these people spend very little downtime with each other in the actual series and I find that fascinating.

Kat 23:12

Right? So you have to fill it all in.

Mallory 23:13

Oh, wait, what?

Caitlin 23:14

They actually barely know each other.

Cathy 23:16

Yeah, they truly barely know each other. [crosstalk]

Mallory 23:18

Wait. Oh no, I thought, I thought this was going to be like..

Kat 23:23

[crosstalk] They actually never interact.

Mallory 23:24

we're going to get together and become like a team

Caitlin 23:26

No, no.

Cathy 23:26

Absolutely not,

Caitlin 23:27

They don't fight together; It's 50 episodes of them not interacting.

Cathy 23:31

They, they literally have like, they like, there's probably one or two scenes in which all five of them are on the same battlefield at the same time. And almost every single one of those scenes involves them fighting with each other because like,

Kat 23:44

[crosstalk]Oh, yeah, they fight each other alone.

Cathy 23:45

What's going on? And this was the thing that I'm sure we'll come back to when I came back to this is when I was rewatching. It in college, I realized that of the two people who spend the most time with each other, it's like Trowa and Heero. Because, yes, it is what arc where they actually go on a road trip, which like,

Kat 24:03

it's great. I wrote a thing

Cathy 24:04

like wiped it from my memory when I was thinking about the series, but it really drives home. You know, again, to your point like what of this series do I did I remember that was just from fanfic, and was just what like the fanfic I read very specifically. And so that was one of the things is like, when you come back as an adult, I was like, all of this stuff is so much more interesting to me because like, I actually, like, I don't get me wrong, I still have shipping opinions. But like, I'm older and I have I I'm famous for this. And Kat knows this. I like don't have OTPs. And I'm like not very good about actually being very loyal to pairings. And so as an adult coming back to this, I was like, Oh, this is actually really interesting because the permutations that fandom came up with also came from, like, non-canon material, because there's a lot of non-canon material, like promotional images that bear no resemblance whatsoever to canon.

Kat 24:54

Okay, I would, I would call those extra canonical, right?

Caitlin 24:58

No, they're, they're extra canonical, they count in some form.

Kat 25:02

Right? 'Cause they're official.

Cathy 25:04

I guess so. I mean, sure, we'll talk about that as time comes but like.

Caitlin 25:08

Listen, a canon is not just the story. It's the entire media mix around it. It's those, it's those things that you can collect. It's the extra manga. It's Frozen Teardrop,

Cathy 25:18

Like, Gundam Wing actually, I think is one of the few franchises I know where like "pair the spares" was a real merchandising tactic.

Kat 25:26

Yes, it was.

Cathy 25:27

And so, so everybody had somebody... gay, I mean, like, not like,

Kat 25:34

Wufei had two!

Cathy 25:35

They had a gay and a straight interest that they were paired up with. And so, um, so it's like, fascinating to me to come back and be like, actually, the canon is a lot more flexible and interesting than I remembered it.

Caitlin 25:49

The canon for me is like, remarkable in its commitment to not officially putting anyone together. Like it was, it's very good at balancing out all of the different pairings that it wants to support.

Mallory 26:01

Mm hmm.

Caitlin 26:02

Um, it's interesting to see which ones got picked up as the main two in fandom, which for me, were always 1x2 and 3x4 dominated the fandom, because they're both like, friendly, maybe talkative, personable guy and like silent, brooding, weirdo,

Kat 26:22

Warrior.

Caitlin 26:22

What fandom loves! Fandom loves that exact dynamic in every form. And so like, what 1, 1 and 3, were never going to work together because they're both silent and brooding. Fandom was never gonna pick that up. It's too It's too boring. It's not dynamic enough, right?

Mallory 26:37

Like, you can't fight. There's no banter,

Cathy 26:39

Which is actually weird, because if you go back and watch the episodes, you'll see it. Heero actually is not that quiet. And Trowa is like a nutcase. And so

Kat 26:48

they're really funny together,

Cathy 26:49

when they are together, they're actually incredibly dynamic in ways that in fact, the canon doesn't establish 1x2, or 3x4 to be. And so it is really fascinating, because I do agree with Caitlin. What came out of this canon is very different from what I think the show gives. And I don't know the show was like, open minded because it wanted to sell as much merch as possible or

Caitlin 27:13

It's that.

Cathy 27:13

Yeah, so I don't know.

Mallory 27:14

Capitalism.

Kat 27:16

I am gonna say I think the show is a 3x4 shipper. Like I think if the show had a pairing, it would be a three, it would be 3x4, like from my recollections of the show

Mallory 27:26

Yeah

Caitlin 27:26

I always thought that was true. But now

Cathy 27:28

I disagree.

Caitlin 27:29

I feel like I'm gonna go into this and and be like, they never

Kat 27:32

Nobody else has a musical interlude.

Cathy 27:34

But the but the thing is, here's Okay, so not to, like, make this too much about the pairing... But I also think 1x2 and 3x4 become established. I put that in quotes early in the series. And so it becomes entrenched and people assume that that's the pairing. But actually, I just remember so strongly when I went back and rewatched that I was like, there really is not that much evidence for Trowa and Quatre's like instantaneous connection because Quatre has that with almost every other pilot, and Trowa's relationship with Heero is like so much more interesting when I come back to it, even though I definitely think they would never work. They would like killing each other and instead as an adult.

Kat 28:12

And I mean, I love that pairing. And like the one thing that came out of my rewatch a million years ago was I wrote a 1x3 fic cuz I really love those episodes, and fandom didn't do anything with it. But I feel like, I feel like Quatre and Trowa are framed slightly differently than all the other potential pairings so that they could be together.

Cathy 28:33

Even up until Endless Waltz like, I really just feel like that that was an early series thing. And then as you go on into the series, that relationship while still important, was not really emphasized any more or less.

Kat 28:47

But I mean, if it, if it comes out of the gate strong, [laughter] like

Caitlin 28:51

That's all that matters

Kat 28:52

I still think that the show was pushing that one if it pitched. Like if it was giving the most evidence to any one of them, I think the early stuff was really like, ~look at this beautiful pairing.~

Caitlin 29:04

So wait do we all want to, maybe to end this episode, we should all go through and predict what are OTP or pseudo OTP for Cathy will be by the end of this rewatch.

Kat 29:16

But also tell me your fave character because that's what I asked like, 15 minutes ago.

Cathy 29:21

Okay, Kat you first.

Kat 29:23

Oh, well, my favorite character has always been Duo Maxwell. And I'm predicting that he's still going to be my fave character. And I am going to stake my flag on Duo/Wufei, 2x5.

Cathy 29:36

Mallory?

Mallory 29:37

I think from what I remember, I really liked Trowa, I thought Heero was too dour, but I also think that I might relate to him a lot more this time around. So I'm going to say that Heero is going to be my favorite character. And I've always liked...see, I don't know about fandom pairings. I want to say it'll be...well it was Duo/Heero before? No, but I've-- I really like Duo/Wufei so, like, I think that's just always gonna be my Gundam Wing ship.

Cathy 30:20

So when I was a kid watching it my favorite was Duo Maxwell, but I know from my prior rewatching, or attempts to rewatch the series, that as an older person coming into the series, I actually like the girls a lot more, like Relena and Dorothy and Noin became my favorite characters and I did not give them the credit they deserved when I was watching it as a younger person.

Cathy 30:41

I also was 1x2 shipper but again, I know that what I came out of the series really shipping was disastrous Heero/Trowa, and then Duo/Wufei.

Caitlin 30:56

Okay, I see we are all Duo/Wufei fans now.

Kat 30:59

[crosstalk] That's why this is going to be the superior Gundam Wing podcast.

Caitlin 31:02

Yeah. I feel like so, my favorite character when I was originally watching as a kid was Quatre. I think probably because like I always liked like, the friendly blondes in boy bands?

Kat 31:13

That go apeshit?

Caitlin 31:15

When I got older, I was more into Duo and Duo is was probably still my favorite character. I was into Duo/Wufei for a long time. I just think that they are funny together and terrible. And I actually really like Wufei a lot. I sort of admire that fake honor sort of thing. But I, since everybody said Duo/Wufei, I feel like I should say something else, which is that I think that I will get more into 3x4 again after this rewatch, because it's a comforting pairing, in some ways. It's a return. And we're all very full of anxiety right now. [laughter] And so we just need Quatre and stupid, crazy Trowa, you know, having their pure love connection that fandom imagined for them from the beginning.

Kat 32:02

It's real.

Mallory 32:03

I look forward to it.

Cathy 32:04

I do too. I also look forward to hating Treize because that's what happened the last time I rewatched this. He's such a fuck boy.

Kat 32:12

I'm excited to love Dorothy and Relena.

Cathy 32:14

My god, they're so good. Yeah, they're so good. That's what I should have said is my favorite pairing.

Kat 32:20

Fandom definitely ruined me for a little bit, like, "urgh, Relena!"

Caitlin 32:24

When I was a kid, part of the appeal of Gundam Wing fandom was in some ways that it was so sexist, and so I could like act out my own internalized misogyny at the time. And so like, I like I was definitely participating in that of like a group breaking up the boys, whatever. And then in later iterations, I like love Relena. So.

Kat 32:45

Yeah, she was just such an easy reason for them to get together, right? For 1x2, but in the show, she's way more than a plot device. So that was kind of frustrating.

Caitlin 32:56

In the show, she's easily the most one of the most interesting and active characters for sure.

Kat 33:02

As podcast Daddy, I declare Episode Zero officially over. Thank you everyone for your time and catch us in two weeks with Episode One: The boy whose wings killed adolescence.

Caitlin 33:16

Byeeee [laughter]

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

#gundam wing #untitled tallgeese podcast #transcripts #mobile suit gundam wing #gundam #episode 00

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chocolateheal · 5 years

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The Hidden Agenda Of Artists Involved In Abstract Expressionism | artists involved in abstract expressionism

By James Charisma

Sterne, Hedda (1910-2011) – 1969 Portrait of Henriette Franklin (Hirschhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, Washington, DC) – artists involved in abstract expressionism | artists involved in abstract expressionism

Published: 2017.09.07 03:07 PM

Abstract Expressionism is generally declared as the aboriginal abnormally American art movement to put the United States—specifically New York City—on the map in the all-embracing art community. Conventional acumen holds it emerged in the 1940s as a acknowledgment to the abhorrence and agony of Apple War II and that its arch artists accommodate Jackson Pollock, Willem de Kooning, Mark Rothko, Barnett Newman, Philip Guston, Franz Kline and Robert Motherwell. Turns out there’s a lot added to this story.

Art critics of the 1940s and ’50s helped acquaint Abstruse Expressionism in this way, blame the new art appearance aback it debuted. Writers such as Clement Greenberg championed the new movement as avant garde and experiential, praising artists like Pollock for his use of unstretched canvas, blush and texture. Essayist and drillmaster Harold Rosenberg acclaimed the active smears and splashes of “action paintings” by de Kooning and Kline. These authors not alone helped advance the alpha art form, they began to appearance the anecdotal of what Abstruse Expressionism was—and was not. Over the years, changeable artists, artists of color, sculptors and alike those artlessly operating alfresco Abstruse Expressionism’s focal point of New York Burghal were advised second-tier or glossed over absolutely in the history books.

A new exhibition at the Honolulu Building of Art seeks to revisit the history of Abstruse Expressionism by analytical not alone the acclaimed artists of the New York Academy such as Pollock and de Kooning, but additionally of its associated aeon including sculptors Ruth Asawa and Isamu Noguchi, painter Saburo Hasegawa and artists of Hawai‘i including Satoru Abe, Isami Doi, Tetsuo “Bob” Ochikubo and Tadashi Sato. Abstruse Expressionism: Attractive East From the Far West, which debuts Sept. 7 at the Honolulu Building of Art, is a advertise of added than 45 paintings, illustrations and sculptures advised to analyze the means that Abstruse Expressionism was shaped by the traditions and techniques of its Asian-American and Hawai‘i practitioners, from the compositional appearance and lyricism of Chinese and Japanese calligraphy to the antithesis and subtleties of Zen Buddhism.

“I anticipate a lot of the belief we apprehend about [artists’] appearance and adroitness are affiliated to array of a allegory about the ‘singular genius’ against accession who’s allotment of a above group. And I would say art historians are amenable for a lot of that,” says Honolulu Building of Art administrator Sean O’Harrow. “ I anticipate this appearance will advice to absolutely alpha to breach that bottomward and appearance a all-around affiliation amid a accurate artisan movement and the artists involved.”

SEE ALSO: Quote Unquote: Accommodated Honolulu Building of Art’s First-Ever Hawai‘i-Raised Director

The exhibition is a able admission appearance for O’Harrow, aloof seven months in as the museum’s new director. It additionally appearance a accountable amount with which he’s actual familiar: O’Harrow formed abundantly with Abstruse Expressionism in his antecedent role as administrator of the University of Iowa Building of Art, which houses cogent works by Rothko, de Kooning, Motherwell and Guston, including the acclaimed “Mural,” Jackson Pollock’s aboriginal ample painting.

Before his time in Iowa, O’Harrow abounding academy at Harvard and again away at Cambridge. But he’s originally from Hawai‘i, area he affectionately remembers demography classes at the Honolulu Building of Art Academy as a child. In abounding ways, O’Harrow’s own adventure mirrors those of the Hawai‘i artists in the accessible exhibition, who larboard the Islands to appear academy and hone their craft, again alternate to advice abound and advance the art arena in Hawai‘i.

This was the case for painter and printmaker Isami Doi, who was built-in on O‘ahu and advised at Columbia University in New York Burghal and, later, Paris. He was a acquaintance and coach to adolescent Hawai‘i artists Tadashi Sato and Satoru Abe, both of whom additionally catholic to New York to convenance art and become complex in the bohemian Expressionist scene. Sato abounding the Brooklyn Building Academy and the Pratt Institute. As the grandson of a sumi-e ink ablution painter, he spent years belief Japanese calligraphy and literature. Abounding of his paintings absorb elements of Cubism’s accessible forms and amplitude counterbalanced by the attenuate delicacies of Sato’s featherlike brushwork to actualize abstracted scenes. Abe advised at the Art Students League of New York and apparent assignment at the Guggenheim, the Building of Avant-garde Art, the Carve Center and added burghal museums. A welder, his sculptures are generally a staccato of crisscrossing abstruse structures, amoebic and acutely aqueous and fluctuating. All three artists accept pieces in the exhibition.

“Hawai‘i has one of the best accomplished groups of artists,” says Abe. (Read added about him below.) “But I went to New York to abstraction art. I bethink I capital to go and alive abutting to the Art Students League, which was 57th Street. A Caucasian acquaintance of mine, a adolescent student, said he’d appear with me to attending for a place. We talked to the buyer about renting. He said for my friend, yes. But for me, no.”

At the time, it was difficult for Asian-American painters who were creating works of Abstruse Expressionism. Generally they were either captivated to expectations that their artwork bare to accept “Asian” qualities or ironically be criticized for interpreting “Western” accession with a appearance aggressive by their own culture. “Some artists, like Isami Doi, Tadashi Sato and Tetsuo Ochikubo, consistently accustomed their Asian ancestry and corrective in calligraphic styles,” says Theresa Papanikolas, Honolulu Building babysitter of European and American art. “They had to accommodated expectations, but, already they met those expectations, now it didn’t accomplish the belief of Abstruse Expressionism so they’re not the ones who get talked about as the movement goes bottomward in history.”

And yet, Western artists such as Rothko and de Kooning were absorbed by Asian philosophy, aesthetics and the gestural appearance of Japanese calligraphy. At the Eighth Street Club, a acquisition abode for artists including Pollock, de Kooning, Kline, Guston and others from 1950 to 1960, lectures were captivated every Friday night on capacity alignment from avant-garde art to Freud to existentialism, and speakers included artisan John Cage and mythologist Joseph Campbell. Zen teachings, such as those by Eastern artists Saburo Hasegawa and Matsumi Kanemitsu, were of accurate absorption to the New York Academy artists. They accustomed the best abeyant for carelessness on the canvas through Zen principles: befitting a bright mind, casting out assumption notions about art history and styles, and advancement an close calm. These types of influences were larboard out of the boilerplate anecdotal about how Abstruse Expressionism developed.

Abstract Expressionism (Royal Academy of Arts): Amazon.de: David … – artists involved in abstract expressionism | artists involved in abstract expressionism

Papanikolas aboriginal conceptualized the exhibition in aboriginal 2015, advancing on the heels of Art Deco Hawai‘i, a 2014 exhibition she additionally curated focused on the Art Deco movement in the Hawaiian Islands from the 1920s to the ’40s. It advised adumbration depicting the Islands as “paradise” and assiduity a romanticized abstraction of Hawai‘i as alien and unspoiled, compared to works by Hawai‘i artists of the time, who acclimatized the Deco artful to actualize an aboriginal estimation of accession absorbed with an accurate faculty of abode in the Pacific.

“Art Deco Hawai‘i was an attack to see how art in Hawai‘i that was created in the 1920s and ’30s, afore Apple War II, played out in the civic scene, through the lens of Art Deco,” Papanikolas says. “After the exhibition, I started cerebration about the abutting affiliate of the story, attractive at Hawai‘i-born artists who grew up actuality and seeing how their assignment fits on the civic date in ambience of Abstruse Expressionism.”

In accession to assignment by Asian-American and Hawai‘i artists of the movement, this exhibition marks the aboriginal befalling for Hawai‘i art enthusiasts to appearance assignment by Jackson Pollock, Mark Rothko and Willem de Kooning, some never afore displayed in the Islands.

While critics of Abstruse Expressionism admired the accurate appearance and freedom of the art anatomy itself—it doesn’t crave an MFA to be able to accept or acknowledge the affect in the alive work—many of the best acute belief appear from abaft the scenes.

For example, Rothko struggled with creating art afterwards actuality diagnosed with a balmy aortic aneurysm in aboriginal 1968. Near the end of his life, affliction larboard him clumsy to acrylic the big paintings he acclimated to. He became balked and afterwards dead himself in 1970. A red painting he fabricated afterwards his aneurysm in 1968, “Untitled,” captures his all-overs and appears in the exhibition. “We apperceive now it was array of the alpha of a alley that was activity to advance to tragedy,” says O’Harrow. “This painting is from a moment in the history of his life.”

The exhibition’s Jackson Pollock painting is the “Portrait of H.M.” from 1945, created at a time aback the artisan was painting added allegorical styles. He hadn’t yet conceptualized the signature beat abode that he, as “Jack the Dripper,” would become accustomed for, but it’s analytical in his development as an artist. “[‘Portrait of H.M.’] is a account of his best friend, columnist Herbert Matter, and apparently the man who afflicted Pollock the best in agreement of art,” O’Harrow says. “It’s array of the missing link, the alpha aeon aback he’s developing his abstruse style.”

Beyond the acclaimed artists, the amount of this new exhibition is about affective above the accustomed fiction of Abstruse Expressionism to admit and embrace its above and added accurate heritage. Pollock was depicted as a “bad boy” in the art apple with his avant garde abode and apart style, but his assignment was advisedly planned out. Despite actuality an alcoholic, he didn’t acrylic drunk. He was additionally heavily afflicted by Native American beach paintings and added traditions from about the world.

“Sometimes it’s acquainted that, in Hawai‘i, things aren’t as acceptable or can’t attempt with what’s accident on the Mainland,” O’Harrow says. “And that’s not the case at all. Our bounded artists, who accept consistently formed at the accomplished level, can access the assize of art history. That’s important.”

Surf and Water Reflections, 1969‒70 | Oil on canvas

Honolulu Building of Art, Allowance of The Contemporary Museum, Honolulu, 2011, and allowance of the Honolulu Advertiser Collection at Persis Corporation, 1974 (TCM.1974.1.239)

Reproduced by permission of Jan Shimamura

Woman as Landscape, 1954‒5 | Oil on canvas

Collection of Barney Ebsworth

Between Tachisme and Abstract Expressionism – Exhibitions – Hollis … – artists involved in abstract expressionism | artists involved in abstract expressionism

Untitled, 1968 | Acrylic on cardboard army on Masonite

University of Iowa Building of Art

Gift of the Mark Rothko Foundation, Inc., 1985.49

Reproduced with permission from The University of Iowa

Portrait of H. M., 1945 | Oil on canvas

University of Iowa Building of Art | Allowance of Peggy Guggenheim, 1947.39

Reproduced with permission from The University of Iowa

One of the New York Abstruse Expressionists, 92-year-old Satoru Abe, still abstraction and activity strong.

It’s 10 a.m. on a Saturday morning at the Kaimukī home of Satoru Abe aback John Koga arrives with a six-pack of Heineken.

“So you activity alcohol too, right?” the 92-year-old artisan asks.

“Yeah, I’ll alcohol with you,” Koga replies, chuckling.

Abstract Expressionist New York | MoMA – artists involved in abstract expressionism | artists involved in abstract expressionism

Koga, additionally an acclaimed Modernist artist, helped align this accumulation with Abe. For the abutting three hours, over beers, sushi and scones, Abe talks about his career, his apprenticeship in New York and Hawai‘i’s art arena today. We bout his studio, his home and garage, abounding to the border with works alignment from metal sculptures abate than a paperweight to one the admeasurement and appearance of a tree, buried in the backyard alfresco his house.

Even if you don’t apperceive his name, you apperceive his artwork: the copper-and-bronze cone with ellipsoidal chunks missing, alfresco Aloha Stadium; the six granite tablets in a amphitheater with images of leaves categorical on them at the airport; the twisting, abstruse treelike sculptures alfresco the Aboriginal Hawaiian Center. Satoru Abe is a sculptor, a welder, a painter and an illustrator.

Alongside Abe’s own pieces on affectation at his home are his favorites by Hawai‘i artists, calm or accustomed as ability over the years. They awning about every inch of bank and shelf space. “That’s David Behlke, that one’s Sanit Khewhok. [Lauren] Okano is over there, abutting to [Warren] Stenberg. Of course, my mentor, Isami Doi. Apparently a abruptness is that one by Keiko Bonk,” Abe says, pointing. Bonk is conceivably best accustomed as the aboriginal Green Affair affiliate to win political appointment in Hawai‘i.

Abe still produces 150 to 200 pieces a year, almost the aforementioned cardinal as aback he aboriginal began adjustment in the 1950s. “The aberration today is that I accomplish things afterwards assumption account and try to abruptness myself. To do this, your assignment has to be spontaneous,” says Abe. “Almost every third day or so, I abruptness myself. That’s the fun part.”

Before Abe was an artist, he arranged milk containers for the Dairymen’s Association, a accommodating of seven O‘ahu dairy farms that afterwards became Meadow Gold. “I asked myself, is this what I’m activity to do for the blow of my life?” Abe says. “So I absitively to be an artist. Simple as that. I was young, aboveboard and with a dream. That’s all you need.”

At the time, Hawai‘i had no absolute arts apprenticeship programs, so he catholic by abode to California, again to the Art Students League of New York. “My aboriginal night in the city, I bent the Greyhound and I had the abode for accession in the Lower East Side but it was too late, 10 o’clock. So I went over the bank at Central Park and spent the night there,” says Abe. He begin assignment as a restaurant dishwasher authoritative 75 cents an hour, additional two commons a day. “I’d get cash, 24 dollars or about abundant [on payday], and I’d constrict it in my socks and booty the alms home. But, 17 years in New York, I never got mugged.”

“Almost every third day or so, I abruptness myself.”

When Abe began in art, carve was rare. He abstruse the basics by experimenting: sanding, erasing, melting. From there, he began creating forms. “When we started, there were alone two categories: painting and sculpture. That’s all. Ceramics was advised a craft. Photography wasn’t included. Today, aggregate is art,” Abe says. “Which is actual good. The alone belief is able-bodied done or not able-bodied done.”

He alternate to Hawai‘i in 1950, area he met added bounded artists additionally abiding from belief or alive about the globe. “Bumpei Akaji came aback from Italy afterwards the war, Tetsuo Ochikubo came aback from the Chicago Art Museum, Jerry Okimoto, he was at the Honolulu Academy of Arts, Tadashi Sato came aback from Brooklyn Museum—no, Pratt Institute, I think. And Isami Doi, he mentored us,” says Abe. The accumulation became accustomed as the “Metcalf Chateau,” called afterwards a abode that Akaji and Abe busy for six months on Metcalf Street and area the accumulation apparent its artwork.

“There was a lot of drinking. Any time somebody fabricated a sale—in those days, affairs an art allotment was rare—we had a party,” Abe says. At their aboriginal accumulation appearance in 1954, artisan Elsie Das recommended their assignment to what’s now the Honolulu Building of Art and, aural a month, the exhibition was confused to the advanced allowance of the museum.

“The blow is history,” says Abe. “Seventy years ago, I didn’t alike apperceive what art I was activity to make. It was above imagination. I attending aback now, I still can’t accept what I made.”

Any routines aback you work? Abe says no. “One thing, in all the years, I never alcohol aback I work. No drugs either,” he says. “My cigarette career was 20 years, again I abdicate for 23 years, again I smoked for 26 years. I’ve abdicate now for a year and a half. Of course, I’m cat-and-mouse for marijuana to be acknowledged …”

Abstract Expressionism was an art movement shaped by its critics. “Whether it was acceptable or bad critique, the best the better. If they criticize you for this much,” Abe says, gesturing large, “it’s bigger than if they like you but alone for this much,” Abe says, gesturing small. “But the capital affair is that they accept your name correct.”

We allocution the day afterwards Gov. David Ige appear his ambition to veto a bill that would accept appointed funds to advice accounts a ceremony of the 50th ceremony of the State Capitol. Abe apprehend the account in the cardboard this morning.

“So we’re gonna do article ourselves to bless instead, right?” Abe asks, attractive at all of us gathered. The man never stops.

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chocolateheal · 5 years

Text

Five Things You Should Do In Abstract Expressionism For Students | abstract expressionism for students

By James Charisma

Abstract Expressionism Reconsidered at Nassau County Museum of Art – abstract expressionism for students | abstract expressionism for students

Published: 2017.09.07 03:07 PM

SEE ALSO: Quote Unquote: Accommodated Honolulu Building of Art’s First-Ever Hawai‘i-Raised Director

18 Best CHILD ART PRODIGIES images | Art for kids, Art for toddlers … – abstract expressionism for students | abstract expressionism for students

Surf and Water Reflections, 1969‒70 | Oil on canvas

Honolulu Building of Art, Allowance of The Contemporary Museum, Honolulu, 2011, and allowance of the Honolulu Advertiser Collection at Persis Corporation, 1974 (TCM.1974.1.239)

Reproduced by permission of Jan Shimamura

Woman as Landscape, 1954‒5 | Oil on canvas

Collection of Barney Ebsworth

Andy Warhol Artist Fact Sheet for Kids | ART EDUCATION … – abstract expressionism for students | abstract expressionism for students

Untitled, 1968 | Acrylic on cardboard army on Masonite

University of Iowa Building of Art

Gift of the Mark Rothko Foundation, Inc., 1985.49

Reproduced with permission from The University of Iowa

Portrait of H. M., 1945 | Oil on canvas

University of Iowa Building of Art | Allowance of Peggy Guggenheim, 1947.39

Reproduced with permission from The University of Iowa

One of the New York Abstruse Expressionists, 92-year-old Satoru Abe, still abstraction and activity strong.

It’s 10 a.m. on a Saturday morning at the Kaimukī home of Satoru Abe aback John Koga arrives with a six-pack of Heineken.

“So you activity alcohol too, right?” the 92-year-old artisan asks.

“Yeah, I’ll alcohol with you,” Koga replies, chuckling.

My Wishes are Horses…: Abstract Expressionism & Mark Rothko – abstract expressionism for students | abstract expressionism for students

“Almost every third day or so, I abruptness myself.”

“So we’re gonna do article ourselves to bless instead, right?” Abe asks, attractive at all of us gathered. The man never stops.

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Reproduced by permission of Jan Shimamura

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