#if we apply some real world sensibilities to ER it's still like do you want to follow a queen simply because she is self-proclaimed god?

[robin-hood-for-freedom]

Its been a LONG time since I’v done anything regarding Anita Sarkeesian.  And to be honest, I wasnt going to make a response to this.  But I feel like he actually raises some interesting points that are worth discussing.  

to the skeptics and anti sjw's she'sseen in all ways as a force for bad adishonest critic opportunist a scamartist and ideologue a huge dick 

I guess thats fair.  At this point I dont think most anti-sjws really care about her though.  I will say that, I, personally never got on board with the whole idea that she was a scam artist(though I can see why some people came to that conclusion).  Imo, even if its true(and I doubt it), its largely a red herring.  

so what I'll call the Internet left however she was broadly understood as an all-around decent critic who was unfairly maligned harassed and abused because she was a woman who spoke about feminism and about her unfair treatment on the Internet

Since you are part of the ‘internet left’ I’ll take your word for it.  

I genuinely like Anita sarkeesian I agree with lots of her points and thought she was pretty cool before I knew she was somebody who everybody hated

I’m gonna be honest: Even if I was inclined to agree with anita’s criticism(I’m not), I dont know if I would really like her as a person or say she was ‘cool.’  Her videos and public appearances to me just come across as boring and uninspired.  

To be fair though, my only interaction with her has been through those videos/appearances.  So its possible she’s actually really nice and funny in person.  

even if I didn't like her though I still wouldn't think she deserved the ire of the public you know threats and harassment from people who hated every fiber of her being

Looking back I’m actually somewhat inclined to agree with you.  Aside from the obvious that nobody deserves threats and harassment(although those were grossly exaggerated), I actually think the attention given to her was unwarranted.  That said, I think most of was less hatred for Anita as a person, or even as a woman, and more concerns about her potential influence and how that might affect games(and other media) we love.  

Looking back that influence turned out to be ‘basically none’ but you know what they say about hindsight.  

I'm gonna be looking closely at a few people mostly Thunderfoot and sargon of akkad

I’m going to point out at this point that I’m not really that interested in defending Sargon or Thunderf00t(especially not Thunderf00t).  I have my quibbles with their takes on Anita.  

the first big argument that Anita sarkeesian wants to make that looking at games we can see a general tendency toward centralizing narratives of male and particularly straight male empowerment and what's more that this narrative tends to place the women of video games into some pretty weird positions women are less likely to be the protagonists of games they're more likely to be presented as sexually appealing to have their bodies put on display they're more likely to take on passive or victimized positions as damsels their to be rescued by predominantly male heroes

You cold argue that there are games that do this.  I could point out loads of counter-examples of games that dont.  

But, more importantly, I think, is that she doesnt really make an argument for why this is bad.  And even the limited attempts she does make, you explicitly reject later in this video.  In other words, we’re left with no reason to accept this as a criticism, unless we’ve bought into feminist ideology prior to clicking on Anita’s videos.  

If you want to argue that these videos were meant to be specifically for a feminist audience and that its silly for non-feminists to care, I guess thats fair as far as it goes.  But I dont think thats what you are getting at with this video.  

not being an expert in games myself I can't really go through er work fact-checking each and everyone of those examples besides that's not really something that interests me

I guess thats fair as far as it goes.  I’m actually glad you acknowledge that you dont know that much about games(unlike anita).  But I think you’ll miss a lot of the criticisms of her in that case, which tended to focus on how fairly she was presenting the games she looked at(not very in most cases).  

He then posts and summarizes a Thunderf00t video here, I’m only gonna respond to one point then pick up later(watch the full video for context)

Jamie's girlfriend didn't need to get beaten up we didn't need to see her panties as she was taken away

I pointed this out when I responded to Anita, but compare the amount of Marion porn, to the amount of Chung-li porn, and then tell me how much men desire weak or disempowered women(granted this isnt overly relevant to anything he said, but it was something that always bugged me about anita’s arguments).

Double Dragon might be a story about heroism in some broad sense but it's also a male power fantasy it makes you feel good because you get to play as a badass

No, it IS a story about heroism.  I can agree that the game sidelines and ‘damsels’ Marion(although again I’m not sold on the idea of that being inherently a bad thing).  But the fantasy isnt just about beating people up for no reason, its about being able to protect and save the people you care about.  I’m seriously skeptical that Double Dragon(or most other games) would resonate as much without that aspect.  

I’m skipping most of the rest of the Thunderf00t stuff, because I dont think thunderf00t made the best arguments, and dont have much desire to defend them.  

here's her second and much more important position that games being like that that's a problem Anita isn't just here to make a bunch of neutral statements about what video games are like she wants to say that video games have some relationship to things like sexism misogyny the patriarchy negative and pervasive stuff she sees in our culture

And since I’m not convinced that games can cause people to become sexist or other have other negative views(and neither are you as we shall see).  The only problem is that the games in question offend her feminist sensibilities.  

[these youtubers] nitpick small errors in her analysis see she spoke too broadly about hitman her general observations about video games must be totally off-base

Its not just hitman.  That was just one of many, many examples of her misrepresenting or deliberately using game mechanics to painting games in a worse light than reality is.  Also she shows no understand of how gameplay affects player attention and focus(presumably because she doesnt know as a result of not playing them)

cultivation Theory cultivation theory is an area of research and psychology that attempts to study and demonstrate the impact that media has on people the sorts of behaviors and dispositions it cultivates and when these youtubers talk about this theory it is always to point out that the research has proven it false

Not so much that its been proven false.  But that the effects shown are much more subtle than is commonly portrayed, tends to reinforce previously held beliefs rather than implanting new ones, and may not even apply to games.  Liana Kerzner(funny how you dont cover her despite the fact that she got a decent amount of attention for arguing with Anita), and AydenPaladin have both discussed this extensively, so I’ll just leave links to their videos.  

let's say for the sake of argument that these people are absolutely right about their science every study we've done shows that video games cause no shift in behavior or disposition our research into cultivation Theory has given us nothing but a bunch of bummed out psychologists now assuming all this let's ask a question what exactly would these findings mean to Anita sarkeesian's claim that video games can be harmful

It would mean she’s wrong.  Actually she’s wrong even in the real world where cultivation is a thing, just more subtle and might not apply to games.  

but to me it would mean absolutely nothing and why is that well here's one big reason I don't think that science is actually capable of disproving obvious facts about the wa ypeople work media's abilities are cultivate behaviors emotions and dispositions isn't some incidental point about it that requires further proof rather it's the entire reason why media exists in the first place

You’re conflating two very different things here.  Nobody denies that media has an ‘effect’ in the sense of causing an emotional reaction or giving some new information to people.  But thats a VERY different thing than saying media can alter peoples long-term attitudes, beliefs or behaviors.  

I agree the former is obvious.  The latter isnt.  And in fact the effect media has is pretty small.  

let's do a little thought experiment say a film is made that is unabashed Nazi propaganda let's call it Lubin'sLubin

You obviously dont speak German, but okay.  

every moment in this film conveys an anonymous and an explicit hatred of Jews let's say that this film is so horrendously racist that nobody in society can possibly be influenced by it to become Nazis the vast majority of people watch it critically tear it apart maybe even reflect on how silly and gross Nazism is

So you’re saying this film may, unintentionally, have a net positive effect on society.  Go on.

now if what's argon and Thunderfoot says is true if the only way to say a work of art is toxic is to look at its literal impact on society then we would be unable to condemn Lubin sh Lubin since the film has no tangible effect on anyone's behavior

Oh we could absolutely condemn the film, say its gross or bad or stupid or whatever.  What could not do is say its harmful.  Because it isnt.  

everybody with a brain knows that this movie is bad politically not in a way that means we should ban it but in a way that is worthy of our scorn and disgust

Sure such a film would be disgusting.  But disgust isnt harm.  And to conflate the two is not only disingenuous as fuck, but potentially dangerous.  

By this logic, Anita Sarkeesian’s videos are harmful, because lots of people are disgusted by them.  

watching Anita sarkeesian's videos she does site cultivation Theory a few times says there's a causal relationship between video games being the way they are and people being sexist and to be honest I kinda wish she hadn't said those things

Do I even need to comment?  

you can see that she means something very similar to what we described in our thought experiment we can see this whenever she talks about games it's pretty obvious

Indeed.  Her main reason for condemning video games is that they offend her feminist sensibilities.  So non-feminists have no reason to accept her criticism.  

she didn't wait for the Double Dragon studies to come in and prove that the game causes regressive behaviors and of course she didn't do that because she doesn't have to she is a person who experienced this work of art and she's claiming here that what she saw in it

Or in other words:

it stipulates that violence against women can be understood as erotic

Again, who is the bigger sex symbol: Marion or Bayonetta?  hint: its NOT the one who is passive recipient of violence.  

it just doesn't make sense to reserve our judgments of media to only those things that the work is actively calling for we also have to look at subtext and coding

And the subtext here is ‘kidnapping and beating up women is bad.  And real manly badasses protect and care for the ones they love.’  

keeping with our Nazi propaganda theme which I guess we have here let's use let's use this boy as an example:

image posted for reference.

this image obviously sucks because in the society it was used in it conveyed terrible ideas it serves to implicitly justify racial hierarchy and to normalize the idea that Jewish people were subhuman it

The difference here is the image in question was used in explicit anti-semitic propaganda.  There is a history here that directly links this imagery to Nazism and anti-semitism more broadly.  

Video games dont have such a history.  Even the tropes anita discusses that pre-date video games, such as the damsel in distress dont really have such a history.  The story of Saint George and the dragon(one of the earliest DiD stories, and the oldest anita cites) was about faith and knightly duty, not gender relations.  Hell Double Dragon isnt ABOUT how helpless your grlfriend, but about being the hero who is willing and capable to protect her.  

Skipping some more, because I dont care:

what he[thunderf00t] seems to have forgotten is that you can buy cigarettes under capitalism and you can buy an apple under capitalism cigarettes kill 400,000 people every year but apples they don't do nearly that much damage it's actually said that they keep the doctors away you might think that cigarettes should remain legal and I'm sympathetic to that idea but you'd have a hard time convincing me that they're not harmful to the people who use them

The difference is that we have loads of evidence that cigarettes cause real, tangible harm.  The same cannot be said for media.  Even cultivation theory says that media tends to reinforce existing beliefs than implant new ones.  And its not always clear that those beliefs translate into tangible actions.  

And I’m gonna say it again before anybody brings it up:  disgust is not harm.  

you may think that you can talk about the worth of art from a political or moral perspective but in fact that's just a mirage anything you say about media is just an unverified and likely unsupportable position and you should probably forget about

I would phrase it differently:  You can talk about media from a moral or political perspective all you want.  However, anybody who doesnt share your perspective would then be perfectly justified in simply dismissing what you have to say.  

hate Anita sarkeesian not because of what she says but because of who she is and the damage she causes

More precisely the damage we thought she might potentially cause.  Which admittedly in hindsight was an overreaction.  

they talk about how she sucks because she released her video slowly

Usually its less about her being slow, and more about she failed to keep her kickstarter promises.  I dont really go in for that because because I frankly dont think its that big a deal.  

didn't like being harassed on the Internet

Look, what she has shown as harassment is no worse than what most people(men and women) experience.  The vast majority of it wasnt even harassment but responses and criticisms.  

I guess you could say that online harassment shouldnt be a thing at all.  But I also dont think thats very realistic.  

talk about how she's a fraudulent grifter who gets her lackeys to phony bomb threats so she can make more money

I dont know about the bomb threat thing specifically.  I DO know that she used the harassment she received(real or not) to get attention and money.  

about how she's a fake gamer and so she shouldn't be talking about games

Thats a perfectly valid criticism though.  Media criticism is best done by people who actually have knowledge of the media in question.  

these guys are unapologetically anti-feminist and because of that they see no reason to change media to make it more feminist

So you DO get it!  

and they don't criticize and Anita sarkeesian's work because of cultivation theory I mean where are the studies that show that these videos are causing murder rates to increase

I honestly dont know what you’re getting at here.  The only reason anybody ever brought up cultivation theory is because Anita did first.  

And they dont criticize Anita  Sarkeesian's work because she explicitly calls for immoral actions

Nobody said she did?  Although I think if you read between the lines she has some really negative views towards men.  

and they don't criticize Anita sarkeesian's videos because they exist outside some benevolent capitalist structure I've got some hot news for you Anita sarkeesian's work is actually facilitated by capitalism

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here.  But it does make Anita a massive fucking hypocrite.  

no they hate Anita sarkeesian's work mostly because she says stuff they think is bad she's a feminist who wants various things about games to change and they disagree with her vehemently about it

And more importantly, that with all the attention she was getting at the time we thought the kind of changes she wants might actually start to happen.  Not that her videos would turn game developers into feminists(because lets face it, theres basically zero chance of her videos turning anybody feminist).  But because they might become convinced that there is an audience for the kind of games she wants.  

Like I said multiple times:  We were mostly mistaken about that.  

Theres not really much else here.  he just repeats himself.  so thats all for now.  

[buffyisms]

❝ Oh, I'm not really into porn... I mean I'm just... I'm trying to cut way back.❞

❝ When you look back at this, in the three seconds it'll take you to turn to dust, I think you'll find the mistake was touching my stuff ❞

❝ Uhm, this is much better. There is no problem that can not be solved with chocolate." ❞

❝ I don't think the forces of darkness are even trying. ❞

❝ Yeah. I ran away and went to hell and then got through it. I'm kind of hoping she doesn't use me as a model.  ❞

❝ I like my evil like I like my men - evil. You know, 'straight up, black hat, tied to the train tracks, soon my electro-ray will destroy metropolis' bad. ❞

❝ Can a nice, safe relationship be that intense? I know it's nuts, but... part of me believes that real love and passion have to go hand in hand with pain and fighting. ❞

❝ Fortune favors the brave ❞

❝ I thought a professional demon chaser like yourself would have figured it out by now. ❞

❝ I'm the Slayer. Slay-er? - Chosen One. She who hangs out a lot in cemeteries? ❞

❝ You're kidding. Ask around. Look it up: Slayer comma the. ❞

❝ Of course, you could smash in all my toes with a hammer and it will still be the bestest Birthday Bash in a big long while." ❞

❝ Don't worry I've patrolled in this halter many times ❞

❝ If you think that's enough to kill me, you really don't know what a Slayer is. Trust me when I say you're gonna find out. ❞

❝ That probably would have sounded more commanding if I wasn't wearing my yummy sushi pajamas.❞

❝ Yeah, well love isn't logical. It's not like you can be Mister Joe Sensible about it all the time. ❞

❝ No matter what, somebody's gonna get hurt. And the important thing is, you just have to be honest, or it's gonna be a lot worse ❞

❝ Are you quite finished? It's over, okay? I'm going to ignore you, and you're going to go away. ❞

❝ Also, in terms of hair care, you really wanna say, what kind of impression am I making in the workplace? ❞

❝I need to know more. About where I come from ❞

❝Maybe if I could learn to control this thing, I could be stronger, I could be better. But... I'm scared. ❞

❝ I know it's gonna be hard. And I can't do it... without you. I need your help. ❞

❝ I need you to be my Watcher again. ❞

❝ Thank you, logic boy. Did I mention this is a rant? Sense really has no place in it. ❞

❝ Oh, right. Yeah. Darn. My fellow ravers will be so disappointed. It was my turn to bring the Bundt cake.❞

❝ Your definition of narrow is impressively wide. ❞

❝ I realize that every Slayer comes with an expiration mark on the package. But I want mine to be a long time from now. Like a Cheeto. ❞

❝ Don't talk about the books again. You get all... and sometimes there's drool. ❞

❝ Power. I have it. They don't. This bothers them. ❞

❝ So here's how it's gonna work. You're gonna tell me everything you know. Then you're gonna go away. ❞

❝ It doesn't matter where you came from, or, or how you got here. ❞

❝ You are my sister. There's no way you could annoy me so much if you weren't. ❞

❝ I don't know about you, but I've had it with super-strong little women who aren't me. ❞

❝ I don't need a guy right now. I need me. I need to get comfortable being alone with me.❞

❝ . I'm starting to feel like... being the Slayer is turning me into stone. ❞

❝ I know this ritual! The ancient shamans were next called upon to do the hokey-pokey and turn themselves around ❞

❝ Okay, no. Death is not a gift. ❞

❝ If I have to kill demons because it makes the world a better place, then I kill demons, but it's not a gift to anybody. ❞

❝ What you did, for me... that was real. I won't forget it. ❞

❝ I'm the Slayer. The chosen one. All mythic and defender-y. ❞

❝ Evil nasties are supposed to flee from me. Not the other way around. ❞

❝ I don't understand. I don't know how to live in this world if these are the choices. ❞

❝ I love you. I will always love you. But this is the work that I have to do. ❞

❝ The hardest thing in this world... is to live in it. Be brave. Live. For me. ❞

❝ I think I was in heaven. And now I'm not. I was torn out of there. ❞

❝ Everything here is hard, and bright, and violent. Everything I feel, everything I touch, this is Hell. ❞

❝ Now, about my loan. I'm not saying I'm charging you for saving your life or anything, but... let's talk rates. ❞

❝ Is that why you're always cleaning your glasses? So you don't have to see what we're doing? ❞

❝ What can't we face if we're together? ❞

❝ Well, I'm not exactly quaking in my stylish yet affordable boots, but there's definitely something unnatural going on here. And that doesn't usually lead to hugs and puppies ❞

❝ Why can't I feel? ❞

❝ A vampire with a soul? Oh my god, how lame is that? ❞

❝ I am the ghost of fashion victims past. Studded caps? Not a good idea. ❞

❝ I'm not saying that I'm doing back-flips about my life, but I didn't, I don't wanna die. That's something, right? ❞

❝ Yeah, I think the New Kids On The Block posters are starting to date me ❞

❝ You always hurt the one you love. ❞

❝ We do not joke about eating people in this house! ❞

❝ The most important job that I have is looking out for you. ❞

❝ I'm using you. I can't love you. I'm just being weak, and selfish and it's killing me. I have to be strong about this. ❞

❝ I'd say you look like you're ready to get married. ❞

❝ That's because the dress is radioactive. ❞

❝ I have feelings for you. I do. But it's not love. I could never trust you enough for it to be love. ❞

❝ But we don't kill humans. It's not the way ❞

❝ We can't control the universe. ❞

❝ When I clawed my way out of that grave, I left something behind. A part of me. ❞

❝ Things have really sucked lately. That's all going to change and I want to be there when it does ❞

❝ I want to see you grow up, the woman you're going to become. Because she's going to be beautiful and she's going to be powerful. ❞

❝ I don't want to protect you from the world. I want to show it to you. There's so much that I want to show you. ❞

❝ Peachy with a side of keen, that would be me. ❞

❝ It's not enough. I need to fix this. I don't usually get a heads up before somebody dies.❞

❝ So what then? What do you do when you know that? When you know that maybe you can't help? ❞

❝ It is always different! It's always complicated. And at some point, someone has to draw the line, and that is always going to be me. ❞

❝ You get down on me for cutting myself off, but in the end the slayer is always cut off. ❞

❝ There's no mystical guidebook. No all-knowing council. Human rules don't apply. ❞

❝ There's only me. I am the law. ❞

❝ It's not coddling. Now go to your closet. ❞

❝ Anna Nicole Smith thinks you look tacky. ❞

❝ OK, you know, this is beyond evil. This is insane troll logic. ❞

❝ If you knew what I've done, what I've let myself become. ❞

❝ "I feel like I'm worse than anyone. ❞

❝ Look, there's something evil working us, and if we are ever gonna have a chance to fight it, we need to learn everything we can about it. ❞

❝ "I don't have a choice. Whatever this thing is, from beneath us, it's bad, and it's only getting worse. ❞

❝ No. I don't hate like that. Not you, or myself. Not anymore. ❞

❝ You think you have insight now because your soul's drenched in blood? You don't know me. You don't even know you. ❞

❝ You know, I didn't even realize it was December. Maybe when we get home, we should decorate the rubble ❞

❝ I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared. ❞

❝ I'm standing on the mouth of hell, and it is gonna swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me. ❞

❝ They think we're gonna wait for the end to come, like we always do. I'm done waiting. ❞

❝ They want an apocalypse? Oh, we'll give 'em one. ❞

❝ From now on, we won't just face our worst fears, we will seek them out. We will find them, and cut out their hearts one by one.❞

❝ There is only one thing on this earth more powerful than evil, and that's us. ❞

❝ Welcome to the hellmouth. ❞

❝ But I don't believe in that. I always find a way. ❞

❝ 'm the thing that monsters have nightmares about. ❞

❝ don't know what's coming next, but I do know it's gonna be just like this. Hard. Painful.❞

❝ Death is what a slayer breathes, what a slayer dreams about when she sleeps. Death is what a slayer lives. ❞

❝ My death could make you the next slayer. ❞

❝ The odds are against us. Time is against us. And some of us will die in this battle. ❞

❝ Most people in this world have no idea why they're here or what they want to do. You do. ❞

❝ You think I'm losing sight of the big picture, but I'm not. ❞

❝ You can't beat evil by doing evil. I know that. ❞

❝ The hellmouth has begun its semi-annual percolation. Usually, it blows around May. ❞

❝ They're not all gonna make it. Some will die, and nothing I can do will stop that. ❞

❝ I'm the slayer. The one with the power ❞

❝ I've been carrying you, all of you, too far, too long. Ride's over. ❞

❝ I don't like having to give a bunch of speeches about how we're all gonna live, because we won't. ❞

❝ This isn't some story where good triumphs because good triumphs. Good people are going to die! ❞

❝ Hello! All I do is look at the big picture. The other day, I gave an inspirational speech to the telephone repair man. ❞

❝ "I have a mission to win this war, to save the world. I don't have time for vendettas. The mission is what matters. ❞

❝ "I'm tired of talking. I'm tired of training. ❞

❝ For 7 years, I've kept us safe by doing this, exactly this, making the hard decisions. ❞

❝ And now, what, suddenly you're all acting like you can't trust me? ❞

❝ Don't... be afraid to lead them. ❞

❝ Whether you wanted it or not, their lives are yours. ❞

❝ It's only gonna get harder. Protect them, but lead them. ❞

❝ I cut myself off from them, all of them. I knew I was going to lose some of them.❞

❝ I've always cut myself off, I've always — being the Slayer made me different but it's my fault I stayed that way. ❞

❝ People are always trying to connect to me but I just slip away. ❞

❝ "People die. You lead them into battle, they're going to die. It doesn't matter how ready you are or how smart you are. War is about death. Needless, stupid death. ❞

❝ I'm cookie dough. I'm not done baking. I'm not finished becoming whoever the hell it is I'm gonna turn out to be.  ❞

❝ "I hate this. I hate being here. I hate that you have to be here.  ❞

❝ I hate that there's evil, and that I was chosen to fight it. ❞

❝ But this isn't about wishes. This is about choices. ❞

❝ I'm going down into the hellmouth, and I'm finishing this once and for all. ❞

❝ So here's the part where you make a choice ❞

❝ So I say we change the rule. I say my power should be our power. ❞

❝ Make your choice. Are you ready to be strong? ❞ 

#dearindies #rp meme #rp memes #rp starters #( & ˢᵉⁱᶻᵉ ᵗʰᵉ ᵐᵒᵐᵉⁿᵗ ᵇᵉᶜᵃᵘˢᵉ ᵗᵒᵐᵒʳʳᵒʷ ʸᵒᵘ ᵐⁱᵍʰᵗ ᵇᵉ ᵈᵉᵃᵈ | ᴍᴇᴍᴇꜱ. ) #i have made so many buffy memes but there is just so many amazing quotes in this show #powerful ones angsty ones funny ones