#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

I always love analyzing character interactions and relationships of the media I consume and I want to talk about Maya really quickly, because not only do I like her as a character. I feel that sometime EP gets a bit of hate because of her and the direction the story went. 

So here are the short non spoilery thoughts. 

When it comes to EP, I rather not ship Maya with anyone. I like her alone and think she is a good character and comes a long enough way to really not need anyone romantically (for now.) 

Katsuya and Maya- I am fine with this. There is proof in the story that supports this. Sadly one sided though.

Ulala and Maya- I really wanted this to work so much. But just how Ulala treated Maya in the beginning. I really do not have tolerance for that despite her confronting that. 

Tatsuya and Maya-Uncomfortable because of where they are in different stages of their lives. I am going to make the argument this is one sided too. 

Baofu, Ellen or Nate and Maya- The story really doesn’t talk about it, but I guess if you try hard enough it could work. 

Now the spoilery thoughts

Katsuya and Maya 

I feel so bad for Katsuya. Like, he is actually in love with Maya. This is canon. His shadow called him out on it in front of everyone. But he kind of just gave it up because he assumed she didn’t love him back and thought Tatsuya and Maya were a thing. 

I didn’t like Katsuya in Innocent Sin, but he grew on me so much. And I just wish he could be happy.

Ulala and Maya

As someone who had a friend do things behind my back out of jealousy for pretty much the same reasons Ulala did, I really can’t forgive  Ulala for her actions. I like Ulala as a character. I really do. But I just can’t forgive her for that and I would find her relationship with Maya toxic if it became romantic. Like you literally tried to kill your best friend. I don’t care if you were drunk and you confronted your shadow about it. It is still upsetting. 

Interestingly, my favorite ship in EP hands down is Baofu and Ulala. But I guess that’s because they remind me of the bickering couple. Off topic I was really happy they at least became partners. 

Tatsuya and Maya. 

Ok. Here we go...

Eternal Punishment is... interesting when it comes to this dynamic. When Tatsuya joins your party, the game makes absolutely sure that you are aware of the age difference between Tatsuya and the rest. Baofu frequently calls him a child. Tatsuya asks what it is like to be an adult. Ellen/Eriko feels uncomfortable when the rest of the cast brings him to a bar because he is underage. 

But in the same breath, every single main character seems to want to push Tatsuya and Maya together. Like even Baofu AND Ellen...

Tatsuya cares about Maya. He is going through a lot in EP. He is still getting over the fact that Eikichi, Lisa and especially Jun will never remember him. At least for Eikichi and Lisa, there is a chance, but Jun? No. He will never remember him. And what is worse is that if you apparently pick the decision to have Eikichi and Lisa remember, they can’t tell Jun or the finally lock is broken and the world gets destroyed. Which means the whole IS cast remembers what happens except Jun. 

But let me go back to Tatsuya for a second. So he lost Jun and his other friends. Maya and him are the only ones who have been through both events of EP and IS. 

I think he is still not sure how to sort his feelings out, but he knows that Maya is the only one who kind of has an idea what he is going through. 

Tatsuya wants to be an adult so badly in EP. He wants to be equals with the rest of the EP cast. So, I think he does the most adult thing he can think of at the end (let’s not talk about the drama CD for a second)  he kisses her.  (again depending on what option you choose.) Notice he kisses her and not her him, which would have been very uncomfortable. 

Also he knocks her out!? That bothered me 10x more. Like come on. Really?

Is Tatsuya in love romantically with Maya? ....Possibly. But I still think it is puppy love than anything else. 

But now let’s look at Maya. Everyone seems to keep pushing Tatsuya and Maya together for some reason, but Maya is very uncomfortable about it. She won’t even participate in demon negotiations with Tatsuya. When Ulala jokes about marriage with Tatsuya she tries to change the subject. She cares for him, but doesn’t really seem to like how the other cast is pushing them together in that way. 

And in the end, she could have stopped “this side” Tatsuya who literally has no idea who she is. But she doesn’t. She walks past him and moves on (literally) with her own life. I think that decision alone made me like Maya a lot more. 

I have said this so many times, but I love EP so much. And if you are a Tatsujun fan,  yeah EP can really suck. But it is still a great story. 

I don’t feel comfortable about Tatsuya and Maya relationship for personal reasons too. I have a friend who was in a similar relationship dynamic and it was just not good.

 If they met again 10 years later. Sure? Especially since “This side” Tatsuya doesn’t have that previous connection to Maya. But otherwise no. 

And I have heard both sides of the argument. And constantly told that Tatsuya is 18, therefore an adult. But being an adult in Japan is 20....

I want Tatsuya and Maya to be close as friends. (although sadly that probably won’t happen either...) 

If you like TatsuMaya will I put a curse on your first born child or block you? No. But it’s just not my preferred ship. 

Now...Yukki and Maya. We can make that work....

#Persona 2 #jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

Spoilers below so skip if you must.

.

I love how Tatsuya is just this like angry little fireball of teenage angst in EP. I mean understandable, but still interesting.

*Tatsuya just blows up part of a ship*

Katsuya: Yeah sometime he just gets like that when he is angry....

#persona 2 #persona 2 spoilers #jazine persona 2 ep ramblings

[jazinerambles]

Quite a bit has happened since I last wrote. As always spoilers for Persona 2 Eternal Punish are below. Part 5.

We went to club Zodiac to find Anna's sister. Which we did and just like Ulala, she was turned into a joker too.

By the way, the attack Old Maids sucks...

We meet a detective name Sneak who suggests we should team up with two other people who may help us uncover what is going on.

So if I remember correctly, the EP team devises a way to spread a rumor for the two mysterious people mentioned by Sneak to show up or reveal themselves.

Which leads to some uh...some shameless flirting between the (appropriately aged) Suou brother and Maya and possibly Baofu and Ulala?

With the rumor spread, you meet Elly and Nanjo from Persona 1 as adults after the conclusion of their game. (P4 fans are wondering what that must be like....)

This is where the game splits. You can either do Nanjo’s mission or Elly's I decides do hers which I kind of wish I didn't because when I play Tatsuya's scenario which requires me to play EP all over again, I will HAVE to, or I don't unlock his full story (PSP version only though)

Anyway, Elly's route takes me to Sumaru TV where we meet Naoya (P1's hero and Elly's stalker.) We also get trapped in an alternate reality. And we find out that the stalker and Naoya are also an illusion. Created by Wang Long Chizura, the lady Maya heard the TV interview from much earlier. 

This dungeon is LONG. And there are 5 bosses. And I didn't get estoma until right before the boss.

Anyway, Katsuya for some reason is consider marrying Tatsuya off...or at least thinking about wedding bells.

She doesn't speak a lick of English though..

At the end of the dungeon, Tatsuya appears and fights a Kurosu Joker that isn't Jun. Wang Long Chizuru is curious of Tatsuya, but doesn't like him ruining her plans. We find what we assume is her (but turns out to be a fake) while Tatsuya fights the other battle. 

We find out the people behind the Joker rumor are trying to turn people into Jokers and then somehow separate then harvest the kegare or dark emotions of the jokers into energy to do...something.

Still not exactly sure what Tatsuya has to do with all of this though...

Also, this demon negotiation is fantastic. Did Katsuya teach Tatsuya how to play? And Ulala is amazing.

#jazine persona 2 ep ramblings #persona 2

[jazinerambles]

Should I start numbering these? I guess this is part 3 (technically 4?). As usual, spoilers below. 

So, after Deja Vu boy leaves us, Maya meets Wang Long Chizuru who makes a rumor about people calling Joker becoming Joker themselves. As in innocent sins, the rumor causes problems, but this time Ulala becomes joker because of her jealously of Maya while she was drunk(?)

I like how Anna is friends with Tatsuya. Tatsuya needs friends outside of the masked circle crew.

I wanted to read Maya and Tatsuya's fortunes based on Tatsuya's and Maya's birthdays, and you can see that as follows with Maya's first and then Tatsuya's. Did you know Tatsuya's birthday is apparently different in IS and EP?

Foreshadowing? Jun’s isn’t as interesting but it does say that people born that month are trying to make amends for previous actions.

You know what? Baofu can't seem to stop talking about Ulala and her guy problems. I will put those 2 on my radar for later.

Just like Innocent sin, I have no idea where the plot is going anymore...

ALSO! ALSO!

Eikichi! But you are just going to flirt right in front of your girlfriend...

Finally, I knew it was a wide gap between Tatauya and Katsuya, but I guess I didn't think it was that large? Also I don’t have a picture of it, but I love how Baofu is slowly starting to rub off on on Katsuya.  If you go to the roof of Kasu with Ulala's ex, Baofu suggests throwing him off the building. And when the ex responds he wouldn't dare do that around a police officer, Katsuya was like, "Sure. We can blame it on Joker." lol. 

Now that is everything for now (in Chinese.)

#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

Maybe Jun needs a hug too. Part 4? (Spoilers below)

The last thing Jun said at the end of IS is that he wouldn’t forget his sin. Meanwhile, he is trying his best to remember in EP but just...can't. Which seems to really frustrate and upset him.

#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings #Eikichi seems like he is perfectly happy though #Jun is also very very formal to Maya now

[jazinerambles]

Part II of my update due to picture limits. That unbreakable tie is now broken. Spoilers below.

Jun....

This is not good. This foreshadowing is not good.

Can we just talk about how amazing Tatsuya is now? Instantly my second favorite MC. Sorry Tatsuya, Kotone is still the best.

Yeet

Just break my heart...take me back to innocent sin.😭

Why are you wasting your breath Tatsuya. You know she isn't.

Ok I feel like Baofu and Tatsuya are definitely opposing forces. Baofu constantly encouraging Maya to uncover the truth while Tatsuya is doing everything behind the scene to protect her. But Maya is going to Maya.

Personality wise, Tatsuya and Maya seem different from their innocent sin counterparts. (Also I hate Maya's VA in EP) I understand the change in Tatsuya, but Maya just seems way too hesitant now and not so much her cheery happy self. Granted a lot is going on, but I do miss happy go lucky Maya.

Jun, you are an amazing character and I am just kind of sad that it had to turn this way for you.

I was going to wait until I finish Eternal Punishment. but I am going to touch on this briefly for now. Let’s talk about one of the most controversial things about Persona 2, TatsuMaya.

 I am sure they’re going to be end game. From the promotional materials, it seems like that was the case. Before I played persona 2, there was a lot I did not know about. I didn’t know there was a character name Jun (or anything about him), I didn’t know the age difference between Tatsuya and Maya nor did I know Tatsuya was bi. I went in pretty much blind and learned stuff as I played with tidbits here and there from the community. 

I would like to go into EP like this, but after what I just saw with the messiness of Tatsujun. Yeah, there isn’t much hope for those two. I will always have innocent sin. Atlus you can’t take that away from me. 

But again, knowing the things I know now, this really hurts. As someone who is bi, I have nothing wrong with Tatsuya being in a relationship with a woman, but not with the age gap. I will probably have a separate post about TatsuMaya once I finish this game, but I figured I will just say what I can for now. 

#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

I really want to avoid spoilers so I will put my playthrough under the cut. I was fortunate to play persona 4, most of persona 3, and pretty much all of what I have played of persona 5 spoiler free, so I am trying to do the same for Persona 2 for others. 

Those who have played the game, I am at the sanatorium.

oh?

Um...wow. I am curious how the two sides are connected and how "deja vu" boy is triggering it.

Also who can remember and why the people who can remember can.

Again no spoilers. I am just journaling my thoughts (and you can watch me suffer as I try to piece things together)

Not sure how I feel about Baofu. Katsuya seems to be the less cool Suou brother but he likes cats so he can’t be too bad. And poor Ulala. All she wanted was to go to a party and now she is being dragged into all of this.

#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

Spoilers below cut. (Part 1 of this update)

The more I play this game, the more I understand why p2ep sold poorly. It wouldn't make sense without IS. It would be like playing the Q series without any knowledge whatsoever of the main games.

So uh a lot has happened. Atlus has trampled on my heart. As for Tatsuya and Jun...

..It looks like it is over.

What a messy break up. But let's rewind before that.

Poor Jun. IS Jun would be upset he did not recognize big sister Maya.

What is with Atlus and pairing significantly older female characters with younger male characters? I am sure this is foreshadowing to "that"...which is probably why the events with Jun are about to happen.

Sudou really wants Maya to remember but I still don't know why. Also this and the bomb shelter were my least favorite dungeons. Why are you making me go through this again? At least I have more time this time and practically memorized the map from innocent sin.

Jun used flowers to get his friends to remember their "innocent sin." Now he is the one that doesn't remember.

Y'ALL Tatsuya is so tired. You can see it all over his face...

Concerned brother of the year?

He is full of surprises. Isn't he?

#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

Maya. The boy gives you something to protect you, and says to stay as far away as you can from what’s going on and you are like, “nope” and burns the one thing that might save you.

But I guess we wouldn’t have much of a plot if you didn’t...

#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

Part 6. As usual, click below to read but warning, spoliers.

------

Next dungeon is smile mall or Smile Hirasaka because you know, it's in Hirasaka..

It was my first map I tried to complete because I forgot to do it for Sumaru Tv. IT TOOK FOREVER.

But I did it. And got some nice cards from it too.

Anyway, at Smile Mall you interrupt a conference but sneaking through a vent and you get a flash back to a similar scene in IS.

Ginji is holding a conference to have the people attending to give up the dark part of themselves to collect kegare.

Well, Maya basically shoots the containers of kegare and changes Ginji to a joker.

After the battle we return to Aoba park to also find out more about kegare and its relationship to the joker.

We also find out Chef Todashi was the one who betrayed Tatsuya and Katsuya's father. He regrets it now and wants to make it right but is then killed by Captain Shimazu which I pretty much called it. But I didn't call Maya being amazing in this scene. Go Maya!

He was a much easier boss for me.

Anyway, we all agree to meet at Baofu's place to plan our next steps to go after Tatsuzou. Who appears to be the mastermind of everything. Baofu runs off to find Tatsuzou and we try to follow him to the factory. 

Note. I am much farther in the game so I am trying to play catch up now. It is hard to remember everything because a lot has happened. I am sorry if thing a bit out of order now. 

#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

P2EP playthrough part 9

Spoilers below cut. I will be talking about 3 different dungeons subway->castle.

Not too much to talk about in this one.

Mission Mission Control. (I liked the music for this dungeon.)

One of the best scenes in this game. And hey! Maya didn't crash the subway car!

Not much going for this dungeon.

I get to Xilbaba again. Tatsuya tells the EP cast to be careful what you think of and not only was he responsible for the heated room but the golden trio.

Tatsuya feels a lot of guilt breaking his promise but we still don't know exactly how he broke his promise.

There is a portrait right before he gets sacrificed(?) That he is drawn in a really weird angle.

The Jun, Eikichi and Lisa of Tatsuya's mind feel betrayed he abandoned him.

Also, if you return to the shrine before going to the subway, you find out the three IS friends get warped into a Black whole.

As mentioned earlier, their memories need to be unlocked to cause the destruction of the world.

Also this boss battle was fun because Jun kept healing everyone so he went down first. Tatsuya killed Jun and then Eikichi killed Tatsuya so then I had to revive Tatsuya to take the other two down.😅

I honestly feel for Tatsuya because you can definitely tell that he feels so much guilt and is so hurt about it.

After we finish the Xilbaba. We fight out that Tatsuzo wants to cleanse the world of evil by destroying it, but he really is nothing more than a pawn.

Once again many of the events of IS repeat and the city is force back into the air. Many of the inhabitants have this feeling or dream has happened before.

Also because of rumors, a castle where the park used to be appears.

I like the designs and portals of this dungeon.

The battle against Tatsuzou should have been harder, but whatever.

I also like that EP has more cutscenes than IS, which was something that I really did want more of in IS.

To be honest, I was hoping the EP cast would be able to stop things before all of Sumaru went up into the sky. But at the very least, we stopped the dragons from destroying the ENTIRE world. So that is definitely an accomplishment.

But Sumaru is still in need of help because the entire city is pulled into Philemon's and Nyarlathotep's realm. It is there they will have one final confrontation with the big bad to ensure the world is saved.

I definitely also had to admit that I was confused on what would be the final dungeon. I thought it would Xilbaba because of IS. Then I thought it would be the castle. But nope. The final dungeon is this board game looking thing. 😅

#persona 2 #jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

I feel very uncomfortable translating other people's work and putting it on other places (I mean the anthologies are fine) but not fanworks. So as much as I want to (and need the practice) I am wary of doing so.

Nonetheless, here is an interesting fan comic about the events after EP with the link to the artist. It's in Japanese though.

Also don't read the description because it is its own massive spoiler...

#persona 2 #jazine persona 2 ep ramblings

[jazinerambles]

This one is a little different. But still spoilers. 

Interactions with Tatsuya and others at shops and other locations. Before and after the shrine

Before going to the Araya Shrine, Tatsuya sees Maya's and instantly room remembers the other side sadly.

But if you go after the Araya shrine his reaction is much different...

I also stopped by the prison to see if Eikichi was still there. He isn't, but Tatsuya says this...

I also visited Kasugayama High since I was in the area. On the rooftop Ellen talks about an instance in Persona 1 in which there was a portal to another world.

Ulala wonders how strange it would be if someone traveled from another world to theirs. (This was before Tatsuya's confession)

Baofu teaches Tatsuya that only cool people drink, but they have to still be of age. Baofu isn’t that much of a criminal. Interestingly, there is an exchange between Tatsuya and Baofu right after Mt. Iwato or immediately as you get Tatsuya after the the undersea ruins if you go to the bar. Tatsuya asks Baofu does he drink his dreams away. Baofu only replies that if you can easily drink your dreams away, they are not worth having in the first place. 

Also later this happens...

Baofu are radiating uncle and aunt energy. 

Eikichi Sushi Shop moved because of the Wang Long fortune. I see Ulala is still best friends with that fish...I forgot the fish’s name. lol.

So.. this bombshell happened before the Araya shrine. I was just casually talking to him and he just mentions this out of the blue. And I was so confused until he explained it at the shrine a little more in depth. 

I like your EP outfit Tatsuya. I think it is better then the Seven Sister normal uniform, but the track uniform (that you never see him wear in game) is probably the best one. 

I was glad I made this little excursion around Sumaru with Tatsuya. 

Tatsuya: We need to go to the shrine I need to tell you something imporant...

Me: Literally goes everywhere except the shrine. 

60% of Tatsuya’s responses before the shrine will be either “I don’t feel like talking to you,” “We have better things to do,” “we are wasting time" or so on. But occasionally you get an interesting response. 

#persona 2 #jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

Part 8

As usual spoilers below. The undersea ruins, Araya shrine and Mt. Iwato. 

Tatsuya is still trying to fix things without really asking others for help. And it's getting to the point that the EP cast is getting kind of sick and tired of it. Tatsuya doesn't want them to follow him and he is trying to push them away as much as he can.

Rumors created the undersea ruin which has the last seal for the dragons to be released to cause the destruction of the world. EP cask with Tatsuya are going there to see if they can prevent it

By the way, I love Katsuya...

I don't know for those of you who have played Eternal punishment but this is the worst dungeon in the game. Three dungeons in Innocence Sin made me want to rip my hair out. But up until this point, the dungeons in EP were fine. Then we get to the worst dungeon in probably any Persona game. There are sooo many pitfalls that will take you straight back to beginning of this very very long dungeon. I had to save pretty much every minute to reload in case fell in a pitfall.

I was so glad to be done with this.

Anyway, as usual, our cast doesn't really make it in time and the seal is release.

Also Guido and Wang Long Chizuru ship? Who knew? Sure. I'll ship them...

Also....

They're now dead. Welp...

Baofu spitting facts...

Tatsuya finally gives in and says to go to the Araya shrine and he will explain everything.

Just like Innocent Sin, travelling further into mountain by the shrine unlocks memories. Maya is slowly shown what her other self has been through and that she is dead on the other side.

Tatsuya explains once more that he has to do this alone. But the EP cast basically say, we are the adults here and we are helping you out if you like it or not.

Tatsuya accepts the help and wonders if he can truly stay...

In Innocent after Maya was killed and the world destroyed, the IS team agreed to forget their memories to recreate a world that this wouldn't happen again.

Consider the psyche locks in Ace Attorney. But instead of unlocking a confession at the end, with each lock unlocked, the world is closer to destruction. Tatsuya was unlocked in the beginning of EP. Now Maya's. Only 3 locks to go and Tatsuya is determined to not let that happen.

Rumor has it that under the city is Xilbaba, but now as the Torifune. It is there we are going next....

Thoughts: it is hard seeing your own self die. At the time, I wasn't sure why Tatsuya was so aloof, but it explains why at the very end of the game.

The Ep cast has grown to love their little fireball. And Tatsuya is kind of like the casts' adopted child.

Next is 8.5 with some interesting reactions between Tatsuya and the others up to this point that I just couldn’t fit in. 

#jazine persona 2 EP ramblings #persona 2 #persona 2 spoilers

[jazinerambles]

Part 7.

Covers the factory and ship in this post. Spoilers below:

So in the last time I mentioned Babu is trying to get revenge over the death of his partner Micki. He he leaves your party and you have to follow him to the factory ( which is a place that I spent a lot of time and innocent sin trying to level up my characters.)

Baofu revenge is towards Yung Pao and Tatsuzou (the father of Tasuya Sudou. Or the guy who keeps setting the msuem on fire)

When Baofu approaches Yung Pao we find out he was using us for revenge and after some digging into Baofu's past, we find out his real name is Kaoru Saga, a former prosecutor.

Baofu/Kaoru has admitted to killing in the past, but EP cast prevents him from killing in cold blood in front of them.

Regardless, Yung Pao atill dies by one of Tatsuzou cronies. Baofu decides that he will continue to stay with the team until the very end. And together they will work to bring Tatauzou down.

With some more Intel collecting, we find out that Tatsuzou is on a ship and the EP team will need to go to the harbor and use one of Nate's boats to approach it.

Which leads to Maya only trying to help by offering to drive, and Ulala completely shutting her down.

You tried Maya..

A cutscene prior dungeon reveals that Tatsuya is after Tatsuzou to and blew up part of his ship. To prevent him from doing anything further.

We also find out that Kandori (villian from Persona 1 is also on the ship with Wang Long Chizuru) and they have their own motives.

The EP team try to find Tatsuya

Mapping the next dungeon was a lot. I only saw the first 3 levels of the ship and thought, "oh a short dungeon."

There is rarely ever a short dungeon in this game...and learn more about Tatsuzou need to bring on the destruction of the world with using the rumors of the undersea ruins and word dragons.

Thoughts:

I can't express how much I love Tatsuya in this game. Estoma has been so helpful traversing around the dungeons. I usually use estoma to map and then spend a bit right before a boss just leveling.

For the ship I got a little nervous because it's asking two parts. You explore one part before our boss battle and the second part after the boss battle. So I was worried that I wouldn't be able to map it until someone assured me that I still would be able to.

Yet again you really don't see talk to you fight with you during the boss battle but I'll get a little bit more into that in my next post. Which I will be discussing the undersea ruins and the Araya shrine.

Although a certain pancake boy in 5 and a much younger kid in 3 also seek to get revenge in their own ways, I think Baofu's story is the most interesting of the 3. Maybe because he is the adult.

#persona 2 #jazine persona 2 EP ramblings

[jazinerambles]

Persona 2 spoilers below but no cut this time.

I am low key debating to answer the questions wrong so at least for Jun he will actually get his memories back even if the world might get destroyed because of it.

Yeah we are doing the life is strange bad choices y'all...

Maybe I will do two save files?

#persona 2 #persona spoilers #jazine persona 2 ep ramblings