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stars-and-clouds · 2 years

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Why Astarion Will Not Betray Tav

Spoilers for all of Baldur’s Gate 3, EA, patch 8:

Note: This post was written in Oct ‘22, patch 8 Early Access of Baldur’s Gate 3.

This post started as a 'Astarion isn't as bad as you might think' post but turned into an analysis of him xD

I have found a lot of people thinking Astarion would be the evil one of the party down the road but I really disagree. I made this character analysis to see how likely he is to do so and/or break your heart. If anyone, it is probably Gale or Wyll who will betray us, in my opinion, or at least not a high approval Astarion. I tried being as objective as I could while also not trying to be outright dismissive/having opposition bias. Hope this helps people understand him a bit more, and do respectfully correct me if I have made an error.

So here is why I think Astarion will not end up breaking your heart, but it is plausible that he may leave you through your own choices in the story, especially related to his part in it:

Emotional Character Sketch

Astarion's honesty and vulnerability-

“Oh please, you think I’m the only one with secrets? At least you know there’s something I’m not telling you.”

Out of all the companions so far, Astarion is the one who has been the most open and vulnerable with us. He told us he's not only a vampire but a vampire’s slave, he told us his master's name, where Cazador lives, he was vulnerable with the hunter and he trusts you with the situation (who you can actually set lose on him. So, you can put his life in danger with the knowledge he has given you. No one who has a grand scheme of betraying you does that), he showed you his markings which is something deeply traumatic for him, and he let you in about one of his insecurities- his appearance. Imagine being vain and insecure and then being unable to do anything about it because you can't look at yourself. He shared that with you. Compared to this, the other companions share precious little, nothing big enough to put their life in your hands. You can't betray any of the companions so early on in the story, but you can betray Astarion. If anything, he comes off as a red herring to me.

Astarion is honest about his transgressions and openly enjoys evil acts like murder and malicious trickery, even if it leads to people being seriously hurt. Unlike Gale and Wyll who constantly try to come off as good guys, almost like they're trying to convince everyone around them (and themselves) that they're noble-hearted. Astarion is openly greedy as well. My point is, he is more honest about his shortcomings than anyone else, the only one like this is Lae’zel. So, even in the event that he does decide to leave you, it will not be a betrayal, you'd know it's coming because he would not hide it. Think about it, the guy straight up attacked the gur hunter mid-conversation when we could've sneak attacked him like, you know, a rogue. He is too on edge all the time to play the sneaky, slow game. He never feels safe enough to sit and scheme about.

Feelings for Tav-

"I want to know what the world sees when it looks at me. (in a small voice, looking sheepish) What you see."

He really wants to know if you find him attractive in the mirror cutscene. Almost seems hesitant at first, brushing you away but then pleading you to stay and push himself to ask for your help and opinion. That entire sequence seems like a long winded way of him sneakily asking you if you find him attractive or not. He really cares what you think and if you're attracted to him.

Part of me thinks he genuinely does like Tav and has liked them ever since they met. He says it (at least to my knowledge) three times in three different instances that he thinks there is a connection between them, a spark and he knows we have felt it too. This is why when he says he's been 'waiting to have (Tav),' since he 'first set eyes on (Tav),' before they make love for the first time, he really means it. (Or it could also be that he is very very good at seduction, something he learnt over two centuries by working for Cazador). He holds himself back to not lose control and hurt you when you make love for the first time, he also says he doesn't want bite you without your permission, he just wants to have fun and feel good together.

I reckon what he appreciates is Tav's intelligence (as he likes to outsmart people himself) and survivalist abilities (compliments it twice, 1. saying Tav is ‘quite the ally’ and 2. how Tav has survived everything that has come so far, which has impressed him) as he is extremely survivalist himself (as shown by his disapproval of choosing to take the poison from the druid healer). He wants to live, no matter what and take revenge on Cazador.

Astarion, Tav and Sex:

(Speculation)

As I wrote in my sexual character sketch of him, I don't think he takes sex lightly either, he likes to show that it isn't a big deal to him (as he does with everything else) but I doubt sex is just another fun physical activity to him. I don't think he's had the chance to be sexual in the past two hundred years and you're not only his first non-bestial feed, but also his first proper sexual partner since he's been a vampire. Maybe he was molested as a slave, I don't put that past Cazador, but molestation does not equate to sexual experience. So, I don't think he has even had sex in the last two hundred years or so he's been Cazador's slave. It is possible that he was involved with other slaves I don't know of them or what their 'social life' would have been like, if any. Maybe he did have sex with other slaves, maybe Cazador made him do sexual things to others, I don't know; but to conclude, I really doubt he has had a choice in anything sexual in the last two centuries and fast forward to his first taste of freedom, he meets us. Doubt he had time for sex between then and now.

(Not speculation)

He values sex, especially with Tav, because he is also genuinely annoyed when you tell him you're sleeping with someone else during the party, telling you sarcastically to enjoy your fun and to 'piss off,' while grimacing and looking away, while in the same breath saying he's not jealous. It comes across as if he is really offended and hurt that you chose someone else, not him. Especially if he really believes you share a special connection (that is not just the tadpole lel); he is upset that you didn't feel the same way he did because he certainly had hopes. It could also be that his pride is hurt.

Another reason I think he doesn't believe in the 'it's just sex,' philosophy is that when you tell him 'it's just sex, nothing serious,' he will reply by saying, 'serious or not, it's something,'. Also, he does not assume that having sex for fun won't change anything. He will start calling you 'lover' after your first time together and if you offer sex while you're called for by some other companion he would say 'we'll end tonight as friends,' because to him, you'd stop being friends and change into, well, lovers if you have sex. He clearly thinks there is value in the activity and he cherishes it, hence drawing you in, making you wait for it instead of just shagging you in the bushes (another idea he throws shade at indirectly when you refer to having sex with Shadowheart). He can be sentimental it would seem.

His sentimentality-

"Will this little adventure of ours be over?... Good. I don't want you to run off just yet"

Very early on in the adventure, he will start questioning what it will be like when you get rid of your tadpoles, as he looks at the stars. He questions if you and he will go their separate ways after that and it's clear he doesn't want to, either for practical reasons as he says you're a powerful ally and he 'still has need of (Tav),' or he's attached since he is lonely and you've shown him the respect that he hasn't been given in a long long time.

When you give him your blood he says it is a gift, a gift he will not forget.

He doesn't even consider killing you and the companions when the book of necromancy asks him to. The second remark about 'well, maybe, (companion name),' seems to be one of his jokes because he doesn't act upon it, especially if he says Shadowheart’s name as they both don't seem to get along at all, but it seems like a sarcastic jab more than a threat. A vampire, who is usually a lawful evil, would have done whatever the book said on principle, without question.

Someone who does betray you is Gale and might do so even going forward, a good guy who is really just hiding secrets that could harm everyone. If you don't give Gale artefacts to consume, he will go ahead and make a deal with Raphael without any prior discussion or hinting at it to you and then shit-talk you like he is throwing a tantrum whilst threatening to leave your party. Astarion himself is tempted to make the deal with Raphael on the fever night but he doesn't, he goes to ‘bed’ without doing so despite how extremely he believes in not dying. He probably does it because he considers it the same thing as being with Cazador, but the point here is he lets you know he was even thinking of it, Gale did not. Especially when Gale approves of you not taking the deal IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Astarion will be offended when you say you want someone else to end you if the tadpole takes over. He’ll say, 'Oh, I see how it is,' with an angry face. The guy is offended you don't trust him to do it well and that you chose someone else over him.

Despite himself, Astarion constantly wants safety and comfort, another reason he wants to be in the group is because there is safety in numbers and Astarion is extremely survivalist. He wants to hope but due to his abusive past, he cannot let it happen, actively pushing you away, saying 'I don't need anything from you,' when you try to comfort him. This is usually a cry for help from abuse victims. It is the feeling of being torn between needing help to get out of your bad situation and also fear of being betrayed by those you trusted.

He is not mindlessly cruel-

He has a very clear line between who should and shouldn't be hurt. Which is strange for a vampire. He does not want to hurt innocents (he disapproves when you want to hurt the entire world i.e innocents with your tadpole power; he also earnestly says he won't harm an innocent while trying to feed, only bandits and our foes as they were going to die anyway).

Anyone who digs their own grave can die suffocating, according to him but if helpless or 'innocents,' are hurting he wants to help them. I think he truly believes he was innocent when taken slave and is salty that no one came to help him, (”The strong had two centuries to pluck me from torture, but no one came”) which is why he supports helping Mayrina who was tricked by a hag, and not the tieflings who seem more than capable of helping themselves. One could say that he really did dig his own grave by choosing to be Cazador's spawn but he said that he did not know what accepting his offer of vampirism entails (i.e being a half-vampire slave), like a deal with the devil only the devil seems like a helpful samaritan- this would put him in the exact position as Mayrina's. Even if that isn't the case, what matters is he believes he's innocent and doesn't want others to go through what he did. The only exception to innocent argument, in my opinion, is that he is racist towards Goblins and other humanoid creatures, he considers Ogres and Goblins disgusting and won't risk his skin for them (but racism against them seems to be quite prevalent throughout this world amongst everyone, so this isn’t special to him).

"We killed some Goblins to save some tieflings. The tally of the lives didn't change much."

Another thing I'd like to address is the argument of how he enjoys the goblin path more than the tieflings’ path is because he is evil and hurting tieflings brings him joy. But, he enjoys killing in the tiefling path as much as the goblin path. There is no difference according to him because the body count remains the same, as he says. In my opinion, it was all the tiefling blood he could drink (he can actually get drunk off blood) and the open hedonism (vampires are hedonistic by nature) at the party with the goblins. Whereas the tiefling path was clean, no blood to drink and he was being lauded as a hero, which he hates. He hates virtue signalling. He wants to come off as evil with a devil-may-care attitude because he thinks that is what true power is, that is the only power he's known all his vampiric life through Cazador. He thinks truly powerful people can do anything and get away with it, “you can’t look at the world and tell me I am wrong”. This brings me to his bravado.

Astarion's bravado-

He wants to come off as a suave, smooth-talking, selfish rogue who cannot be trusted. He tells you that he would be disappointed in you if you trusted him, but he already trusts you himself. When you sell him out to the gur hunter, he is genuinely surprised and seems to be a bit torn up that you betrayed him. This could just be an expectation of one-sided loyalty that most narcissists have but Astarion is not a narcissist.

He is a massive liar, but his face always gives it away. He lies about having an enticing dream when he actually dreamt of Cazador having found him and recounting his commandments to him. He lies that he needs your blood because he is weak, but he actually needs to feed on a thinking creature to check whether or not he can break his master's command of 'thou shall not drink of thinking creatures'. He is elated not only from the taste but also that he can actually disobey his slaver. All of these are things he is scared to admit because he is wary of being taken advantage of.

He tries avoiding the past instead of thinking upon it, he does not like brooding but it clearly affects him every waking moment. He gets mad at us exhuming his past when he is still defined by it. He likes to show, or perhaps even think himself, that he has moved on from it and looks to the future but all of his actions are only about taking revenge. Revenge is always about being stuck in the past.

He will shirk off all of your attempts to console him while appreciating at the same time when you suceeed a pursuation check to pursuade him to share details about himself (another characteristic of lonely and cynical people, they want to be sure the person really cares and thus want to be encouraged to talk about themselves).

Why he is not just manipulating and seducing you-

If he was manipulating you, he would approve of even the choices you make that he disagrees with. He would not say he doesn't want to sleep with you, even on low approval, because sex is one of the surest ways to manipulate people and that will ensure a place for him in your party and your support. He seems to make a choice of it depending on how much he likes you, so I don’t usually agree with the theory that he is seducing you because he needs you.

---

Other Miscellaneous Notes:

He is not a good boy-

All of this shouldn't suggest he is a nice boy. He's sensitive but still a bad boy. I am still new to D&D so my knowledge isn't as extensive, but I know the vampires in forgotten realms are inherently evil, they can't help it. Astarion simply doesn't have a choice but to perform and revel in the evil things he does, it's in his nature. He enjoys cruelty, murder and hedonism. I would place Astarion as a Chaotic Evil at his worst and Chaotic Neutral at his best.

note: I would like to mention, alignments are only guidelines however and no real person ever acts only inside their alignments in any story, that makes them boring and Astarion is the best-written character in bg3 so far. He is very conflicted between a lot of his own aspects and that includes going against his nature.

Romance going bad-

If I imagine a typical evil vampire romance, by textbook definition, he will get possessive and jealous over Tav. He will forcefully convert them to a vampire or spawn so that he doesn't have to spend eternity alone if they die. He will become extremely paranoid over their safety and might suffocate them with extreme affection and obsession. Dark Desire does that to vampires, it twists every emotion for the worst and extreme.

note: But we have already seen that Astarion doesn't completely follow these attributes. Maybe they work differently in a story than in a campaign (I do not know anything about BG1 and BG2). (see- vampire lore v/s Astarion’s character conflicts below)

Can he be redeemed?-

I am usually not a big fan of redemption arcs but I do like some of them when the characters having it makes sense for their stories. Does it make sense for Astarion? It's too early to tell to be honest.

But so far, he has shown signs of not liking that he's a vampire. In fact, I think he really dislikes it.

Some examples are below:

He says eternity is much longer than he expected it to be when you ask him about his past.

He gets sad when he says he can't even remember his face, having never seen it since he became a vampire, his face is just a dark shape in his past. Then he gets angry, throws the mirror away and says, "...another thing I've lost"

When you’re in the underdark, he cites appreciation for being in the sun saying, "I'd much rather be outside, with the sun on my skin."

He misses his home or is at least curious about his past life (ref: the mirror in the cellar).

He also says he misses being able to look at himself, “Preening in the looking glass? Petty vanity? Of course, I miss it.”

He misses the taste of wine, it can be assumed he had a great love for fine spirits as he compares the taste of different blood types to different alcohols, which also shows he likes reminiscing upon his past.

In contrast to this, he has never shown to have pride over being a vampire. He appreciates the power that comes from it but there is no passion or pride in him for being an undead.

How I think he can be redeemed (if possible)-

"Vampires are usually the result of a dark pact and while the mortal may not make the deal with the goal of becoming a vampire in mind the dark powers they've negotiated with cares little and only seeks to sow as much evil and strife within the world as a result of such a deal."

So, what if Astarion is promised to some entity by Cazador and that is what his marks are for? They are written in infernal. What if we can bargain with the entity for Cazador instead and bring Astarion back to life through other means? This could be a path to possibly ‘redeeming’ Astarion and making him a human again.

Monster Manual page 295 has a sidebar "Player Characters as Vampires" that explains that vampirism is reversed in two ways:

-A wish spell

-Killing the character and bringing them back to life through revivify. (source, Reddit comment)

So if a situation arises that gives us the opportunity to do either of these things, I suppose we can bring Astarion back to life and make him an elf again. That is how I think he can be ‘redeemed’ because I do not see any other way for him to be a good vampire within the lore constraints, which may not be entirely an issue to be fair. (see- vampire lore v/s Astarion’s character conflicts below)

I also think, the book of necromancy he is so keen on reading will reveal him secrets about making Cazador alive again and hence weaker than him, or he will himself want to become alive after defeating Cazador.

note: I admit I think this would put a damper on people wanting to be his vampire queen/king but being a vampire in this world is not as romantic as it is in other fantasy worlds. The D&D guides even go as far as saying playing as a vampire is difficult because you truly have to be evil and make evil choices, that you should start as a spawn and then move on to becoming a true vampire over the campaign as it would be a very difficult being to play.

Astarion’s Past (Speculation according to 5e lore)-

Reference

note- Vampirism lore from The Forgotten Realms seems to be scarce but Astarion seems to follow some of the 5th edition rules so I'm assuming this reference is cool for theory crafting.

According to vampire lore, he could have been an okayish person in his life, not too good, not too bad. Maybe he was a true neutral.

"When a vampire comes into being they don't behave like the people they were in life. They are inverted, the chaste becoming temptresses, the kind becoming cruel, the once holy now finding glory in perversion. All their once positive qualities are specifically inverted to form a more personalized evil."

According to this description, it is viable to believe that he was true neutral as an elf because I think he is chaotic evil/neutral as the undead. That would be its evil inversion, would it not?

I have issues with this description as it is very vague and weird as ‘inverted’ suggests the good will become bad, bad will become good and neutral might stay neutral.

note: again, I would like to point out that alignments are just guides, no character or person truly ever acts only within their alignment.

- Conflicts between vampire lore and Astarion’s behaviour in-game:

"Inhuman, merciless, and uncaring about their earlier life."

This is very curious to me because we already know Astarion longs for his home and when we ask about his past life he gets sad, saying he doesn't remember. As stated above, he does already miss being a human and seems to dislike being a vampire.

“The vast majority of vampires are lawful evil, and none but the greenies attempt to maintain their inner humanity and remain even a neutral, let alone a good one.”

This is interesting because according to him, until Tav, Astarion was a greenie as in he didn't feed from thinking beings. (Did we lead him down the bad path? Lol). So he could have actively tried to retain some of his humanity and morality while under Cazador for all those years.

"Greed can be considered to be the warped form of charity. A generous cleric who becomes a vampire may acquire a taste for the blood of those whose mouths they once fed out of their own pocket. Luring them in with their known charity only to drain them of their lives and possesses."

This is interesting because Astarion is extremely greedy. So perhaps he was a generous noble?

(Spoilers for unreleased content):

The above speculation seems unlikely because, from the PAX East Gameplay Reveal, we know that he was a corrupt magistrate. He would pass out false sentences to feed people to Cazador for money. Seems that his greed has passed down from his real life to his vampiric life too. This seems to be a big oversight as 5e D&D guide has a table on how each good attribute is twisted in the afterlife for the worse.

It seems that Astarion is not a typical vampire and may not follow all the evil requirements of being a vampire. It could also be the tadpole but he exhibits behaviours that seem to be coming from a deeper sense of self formed over years and not just a new personality developed within days since the tadpole's infection.

End note:

Warning- here be big spoilers for Dragon Age: Inquisition characters.

I do not want it to sound like Astarion will never leave your side or that he'll support you through anything because he won't. He already doesn't, he openly disapproves of your noble choices. But he will not backstab you like Solas or Iron Bull did in Dragon Age: Inquisition. If he decides to leave you, it'll be through either your own betrayal (like setting the hunter upon him) or you both having differences in goals. Astarion's only goal is beating Cazador, if you don't support that, he will leave you. I really think it will be that simple. If anything, it might be like Sera leaving the inquisition upon differences in ideals.

Another way he could leave is through the inability to control the tadpole or his markings or Cazador somehow having control over him again.

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