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FF7⼁FF8⼁FF9⼁FF10⼁30th ANNIVERSARY⼁FINAL FANTASY COUPLES.

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I need to say this because I can���t stop thinking about it… In the 3 year anniversary video for FFRK, Tifa’s sprite action is being hurt. In the mobile version you can see Tifa winces backwards (like what happens when a character gets attacked) but in the DeNA youtube upload you only see her kneel to the floor in pain.

Tifa’s quote is:   「私達、思い出に負けたの？」

“Which is it? A memory, or us?” (Better translation: “Have we lost to a memory?”)

That’s the quote they decided to sum up Tifa’s character with, which is strange on it’s own. But the thing I can’t ignore is Yuna’s chosen quote:

いなくなってしまった人たちのこと、時々でいいから……思い出してください   “The people and the friends that we have lost, or the dreams that have faded…Never forget them.” (this plays when she thinks of her memories with Tidus during FFX’s ending)

Yuna is, by far, the most beloved FF heroine in the entire series. They chose to show Yuna telling people to remember those we’ve lost and that it’s OK if we do. In contrast to Tifa’s quote where she’s basically telling Cloud to let go of his memories (aka Aerith). 

What is SQEN trying to imply here? 

To me it feels like they purposely made this contrast to send a message. That, while Tifa was coming from a good place, you can’t force people to forget those they love and shouldn’t make them feel bad for it, either. In fact, I can’t help but feel as if this was SQEN way of validating that Cloud still loves Aerith and cherishes her and nothing will change that.

That’s all I’m getting from this and I’m just wondering if anyone else can tell me if they agree or if there’s an alternate explanation for this.

[theonewhomeltshisfrostyexterior]

How can you say Cloud's feelings are different/opposite of Aerith's other comerades and the viewers? If that were they case wouldn't he have said "different" instead of "also"?

Nomura did say it was different, saying “he has his own undying feeling” is DIFFERENTIATING between Cloud’s feelings VS the friend’s feelings.Example can be found here.

Does all of AVALANCHE romantically love Aerith? No, of course not. They all feel a PLATONIC connection/love towards her. So when Nomura said in contrary to THEIR (the friends) feelings Cloud has HIS OWN undying feelings that means Cloud’s feelings are different. For his feelings to be considered “his own” that would indicate that Cloud is the sole owner, or the one in possession, of THOSE specific feelings. It cannot be “his own” if everyone else feels exactly the same way as him. And if, like you said, it was “platonic feelings” like that of their friends, that would mean Cloud’s feelings can not be considered to be “his own” because they would be just like the rest of their friends platonic feelings.

This quote says that Cloud’s feelings are unique and belong only to him, which means that his feelings are not like the platonic feelings of the rest of the group.

If all of Aerith’s friends feel platonic love for her and Cloud’s feelings aredifferent/opposite to their platonic love… What does that make his love/feelings for her? Hint; what’s opposite of platonic love? That’s right,romantic love.

I hope that explained it. ^_^

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I keep seeing on twitter that Cloud's line: "I think I can meet her there" is a mistranslation and it should be "I think we can meet her there." CT's say Cloud didn't say "I" but "we" so that's why T joined in & replied with "Yea. Let's meet her." So now some CT's are saying they hope it gets translated the right way in the Remake. Is this true?

Gosh, I wonder why clowtis think that?

Despite what google translate tells them, there is no “we” or “I” in Japanese. It’s literally “think meet there”--but the context is “I think I can meet her there”, that’s why Japanese cleriths love the line. That’s why Square changed it from “meet” to “find” but kept Cloud’s personal pronouns in the “ Reminiscence of Final Fantasy VII ” feature for Advent Children:

So, no--clowtis are wrong. 

[theonewhomeltshisfrostyexterior]

I find it indicative of Cloud and Aerith’s feelings for one another that when they felt lost, they turned toward one another.

Aerith is dead. Right in front of my eyes… 

I couldn’t stop Sephiroth. She was in my reach, and all I could do is stand there and watch as his sword ran through Aerith.

All the time Aerith used to smile, like a flower. But, Aerith won’t smile anyway. I won’t be able to hear her innocent laugh again.

What did she do? Why did Aerith have to be killed? What am I supposed to do about this anger, it’s like endlessly boiling up and burning up my body.  

Yet at the same time, I was afraid. Like a chill coming from the core of my body.  

When I found Aerith there, offering up some prayer, what did I try to do? If my friends hadn’t stopped me at that moment, I would have struck my sword down onto Aerith. It was something separate from my own will… it was like when I gave Sephiroth the Black Materia—  

Who am I? I’m EX-SOLDIER Cloud… right?   Tell me, Aerith – ~Cloud Strife; Dismantled

When Cloud was confused and afraid of himself and his actions, who did he trust to reassure him about his persona? Aerith.

This is mirrored in Maiden of the Planet for Aerith.

“How can I save Cloud? How can I stop Meteor? I didn’t think that Holy would be held back. At this rate, the Planet’s going to end up the way Sephiroth wants it… What can I do? Tell me, Cloud…” Aerith cried as she thought about the shattered Cloud that even her prayers wouldn’t reach. His wrecked character could no longer be fixed. If he wasn’t Cloud in the first place then, who was he? Knowing him only as a former member of Soldier, there was no way she could guess. She embraced the feeling of helplessness that she couldn’t put into words. “Cloud… I miss you. I miss the real you…” ~Aerith Gainsborough; Maiden of the Planet

Aerith was unsure about what to do after she found out that Holy was stopped. She was worried about Cloud, Meteor and Sephiroth. And who was she asking for encouragement? Cloud.

Relying on one another is something couples or people in love would do. It’s the little details like this that hints so much about the love that both Cloud and Aerith had for one another, imo.

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Nobuo Uematsu Discusses The Final Fantasy Main Theme As FF30th Fan Tribute Submissions Begin

Each scene was used to represent each game. ♥

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Final Fantasy romances remembered in the #FFRK_FF30th tribute commercial, starring Cloud and Aerith’s Japanese voice actors. 

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“After settling things with Sephiroth, Tifa attempts to escape with Cloud from the crumbling hole at the Great Northern Cave’s extreme depths. Getting something of a hunch as to understanding the Promised Land’s meaning, he thinks he can meet someone … In response, she smiles and says “Yeah, let’s go meet her.” The person they’re talking about meeting is, of course, Aerith. As for the Promised Land … **セフィロスとの決着をつけたのち、くずれつつある大空洞の最深部の穴からクラウドとふたりで脱出をはかるティファ。"約束の地"の意味がわかったような気がする、そこで会 えると思う……と言うクラウドに向かって、彼女は微笑み「会いに行こう」と語る。会いに行く相手は、もちろんエアリス。そして"約束の地"……。**”

— Taken from the Ultimania Omega; page 27

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Cloud x Aerith fans, please do not believe this Cloti propaganda:

1. Live together?

Cloud has his own room with a bed at Seventh Heaven. Though this room has a lack of furnishings, this is likely due to Cloud’s erratic and busy delivery service he starts. Furthermore, a lack of furnishings doesn’t preclude one from sleeping in a bed.

In addition to Cloud’s separate room and bed, Marlene is stated to always sleep with Tifa, not Tifa and Cloud:

“Marlene, who had always slept with Tifa, slept with her foster father Barret the night before he left. Their conversations could be heard late into the night. Early the next morning, Barret set off.” ~Case of Tifa; Square Enix

We also know Cloud leaves Seventh Heaven to live in Aerith’s Church, something Tifa becomes jealous of:

“The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith. Final Fantasy VII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings. Advent Children: Upon knowing that Cloud had been residing in Aerith’s Church after leaving the place they had been living in together, her expression becomes complex.” ~Tifa’s character profile; 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix

“Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in Advent Children, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Tifa’s profile; Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; pg. 42-47; Square Enix

Cloud is still heartbroken over Aerith’s death, something Tifa is acutely aware of and jealous of, which only further exacerbates their problems throughout Case of Tifa.

“It was the sound of Cloud’s heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith’s death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth…” ~Maiden of the Planet, Square Enix

“Cloud was the woman’s [Aerith] friend, and *koibito* [lover in Japanese]– a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.” ~Case of Lifestream: White; Square Enix

Cloud and Tifa’s relationship in Case of Tifa is perpetually complicated by Cloud’s eternal feelings of love for Aerith.

2. Have two children?

Barret returns to living with Marlene, his adopted daughter, in Dirge of Cerberus:

“Currently he is living with Marlene, the orphaned child of his best friend, however…” ~Dirge of Cerberus Official Complete Guide; p.21; Square Enix

Cloud believes Aerith is the reason Denzel was lead to him:

“Denzel had collapsed in front of Aerith’s church. That’s why I thought Aerith lead him to me.” ~Case of Tifa; Square Enix

Whether or not romance was or was not present between Cloud and Tifa is beside the point because it was not a factor in the formation of the family in Case of Tifa. This family cannot be used as evidence in favor of Cloud and Tifa because this family is a platonic [not romantic] family. Reviving the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family was Barret’s idea. One needs to only read Case of Tifa to see that this is true. Excluding Barret’s role in the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family is only meant to build up the false notion that Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship. 

Even Tifa agrees this is a ‘family of friends’ that has zero romantic connotations:

“Friends were a necessity to me so that I could live on without being suppressed by the sins in my consciousness. Even if they were fellow companions that had the same wounds. Even if they were fellow companions who were burdened with the same sins. We couldn’t live without comforting each other and encouraging each other. Maybe you could call that family. We just had to keep the family together and do our best. Tifa thought she could get over anything while being with friends that she could call her family.” ~Tifa Lockhart; Case of Tifa; Square Enix

3. Confirmed feelings?

Cloud and Tifa are stated to confirm feelings in the high affection Highwind scene, not the low affection Highwind scene:

“After stopping Hojo from going amuck, the conversation with Tifa before they rush into the Northern Crater diverges into two conditions, according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud. When it gets low, the conversation in the scene that they spend the night will be apathetic and ends short. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa says “Were you listening?” and stamps on tiptoe. On the other hand, when degree gets higher, the conversation of the scene that they spend the night will have strong emotions. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa will say “Were you watching?” and feels terribly shy” ~page 198; Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega; Square Enix

“Deviation – Two versions of the conversation before the final battle: Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa’s affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two’s conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly.” ~page 232; Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix

“Another event is when the party was dismissed and after everyone left for their own places separately, Cloud and Tifa spent the night together. At that moment,according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud, the event of “dialogues exchanged between them from dusk to dawn” and “Tifa’s reaction and lines when she found out that everyone might see (or hear) that circumstance” will be different.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled; page 201; Square Enix

Although the high affection Highwind scene has been given preferential treatment by Square Enix, preferential treatment doesn’t equal canon. Unlike the Cloud and Aerith date, which has been stated to be the ‘normal’ outcome by Square Enix, we have no idea which version of the Highwind scene is the ‘normal’ outcome.

Furthermore, Cloud and Tifa are going through serious problems that prevented them from being in a relationship regardless of which Highwind scene took place. Final Fantasy VII creator Nojima speaks of a premise that things “won’t go well” between Cloud and Tifa:

“Episode Tifa” [Case of Tifa] - first off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same.“ ~Nojima; On the Way to a Smile interview; Square Enix

Did you catch that last bit? Even without circumstances such as geostigma and Sephiroth, things still probably wouldn’t have gone well between Cloud and Tifa. Without Sephiroth, Cloud wouldn’t have PTSD. Therefore, this speaks to the inherent issues that have persisted between Cloud and Tifa since childhood.  

Nojima also says the children –Barret’s daughter, Marlene, and Cloud and Aerith’s spirit child, Denzel– **MIGHT** be able to help Cloud and Tifa sort through their problems:

“After Advent Children Complete, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out.” ~Nojima; On the Way to a Smile interview; Square Enix

Even after Cloud’s Geostigma and guilt is removed, and Sephiroth is defeated, Nojima still isn’t sure Cloud and Tifa will work out.

Nojima, the creator of Final Fantasy VII, has said two very important things:

Cloud and Tifa’s problems likely have nothing to do with geostigma and Sephiroth.

Even when the issues plaguing Cloud are resolved [his guilt, geostigma, and Sephiroth] Nojima still isn’t sure Cloud and Tifa will work out.

Both of these reasons tell us Cloud and Tifa have serious, inherent problems that prevent them from partaking in a healthy, long-lasting relationship.

Unfortunately, nothing between Cloud and Tifa has been shown to be resolved. Barret returns to living with Marlene in Dirge of Cerberus, and Cloud and Tifa’s relationship status is still unknown and in fractured territory.

Potential Criticisms:

1. "When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his geostigma �� his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live. He realizes that he was able to forgive himself.” ~Advent Children Complete Playback; 10th Anniversary Ultimania ; Square Enix

Response: A] The reason Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel are specifically mentioned in this quote is because Cloud leaves Seventh Heaven due to geostigma. Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel, as it says in the quote, are the ones asking Cloud to heal his geostigma so he can return to living with them. Barret, of course, isn’t living with them at this time, which is why Barret is omitted from asking Cloud to heal his geostigma so that he can return to living at Seventh Heaven. B] Barret was also waiting for Cloud at the end of Advent Children, which is what the quote says, “…his family were waiting.” C] As we can see by simply reading Case of Tifa and Barret returning to Marlene in Dirge of Cerberus, he has and always will be a member of the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family. It makes zero sense for Marlene to be a member of two families, especially when Barret re-built the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family from the ground up to mirror the family that has always resided within the walls of Seventh Heaven. E] According to Tifa Lockhart, the family waiting for Cloud at the end of Advent Children is a ‘family of friends’:

“Friends were a necessity to me so that I could live on without being suppressed by the sins in my consciousness. Even if they were fellow companions that had the same wounds. Even if they were fellow companions who were burdened with the same sins. We couldn’t live without comforting each other and encouraging each other. Maybe you could call that family. We just had to keep the family together and do our best. Tifa thought she could get over anything while being with friends that she could call her family.” ~Tifa Lockhart; Case of Tifa; Square Enix

Tifa is the one who tells us this family has zero romantic connotations and is a ‘family of friends.’ You don’t have to my word for it, all you have to do is bookmark the above quote.

2. Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel are stated on numerous occasions to be happily living together as a family.

Response:

“After visiting various locations with Tifa and Barret, Tifa opened the Seventh Heaven bar. Before setting off on a journey, Barret left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa’s care, and the three of them began living together.” ~Cloud Strife’s Profile; Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix

It says that the three of them [Cloud, Tifa, and Marlene] began living together after Barret set off on his journey. This unequivocally proves that when the words “live” / “living” / “lived” are used to describe Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel, it is only excluding Barret because he is not technically living with them.

A] To reiterate: the key words in all the quotes discussing the four of them living together as a family are the words “live”/ “living”/ “lived.” Barret isn’t included in these quotes because he is temporarily not living with them. That should be obvious. However, his role in the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family has been firmly established since the beginning of Final Fantasy VII. Barret is simply a traveling Father – something many families deal with on a daily basis. However, just because your parent travels for a living doesn’t remove them from the very family they created. Bottom line is, of course Barret isn’t included in the quotes discussing Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel “living” together – he isn’t technically living with them. But you’d literally have to ignore everything in Case of Tifa if you actually wanted to remove Barret from the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family – the family he literally re-built from the ground up. Remember, all of this was Barret’s idea to begin with. B] Barret is confirmed to return to living with his daughter, Marlene, in Dirge of Cerberus:

“Currently he is living with Marlene, the orphaned child of his best friend, however…” ~Dirge of Cerberus Official Complete Guide; p.21; Square Enix

C] Before Denzel arrived, Cloud was rarely home and Tifa states their family life wasn’t very good. Marlene even tells Barret about their families dysfunction on the phone. D] The root of why Cloud felt the need to bring Denzel back to Seventh Heaven, the direct cause of the families new found happiness, is tied solely to Aerith. Cloud confirms this after Tifa’s strong-armed demands. E] The families new-found happiness is a result of Denzel coming into their lives, which wouldn’t have happened without Cloud’s belief Aerith lead Denzel to him. F] Tifa herself confirms this is a ‘family of friends.’ The family in question has zero romantic connotations according to Tifa.

3. Denzel views Cloud and Tifa as his Mother and Father.

Response: How Denzel views Cloud and Tifa has no relevance towards the possible romantic nature of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship and how they view each other. Of course Denzel views the only male figure and only female figure currently living at Seventh Heaven to be his Mother and Father. That’s only logical. But what Denzel thinks of them gives zero insight into how they view each other.

4. Ownership of the family is ascribed to Cloud, not Barret.

Cloti quote #1:

“Cloud brings Denzel back from the slum’s church and Denzel joins Cloud’s family.” ~Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Complete Timeline; Square Enix

Response: A] If Tifa had found Denzel, the quote would have read: “…and Denzel joins Tifa’s family.” If Barret had found Denzel, the quote would have read: “…and Denzel joins Barret’s family.” This is a ‘family of friends’ that equally belongs to all of its members. B] “Upon finding out that Edge was under attack during the midst of his travels, he rushed over towards the crisis faced by his family and companions.”~Barret Wallace’s Character Profile; Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix [See, ownership of the family is ascribed to Barret as well.]

Cloti quote #2:

“With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward.”~Cloud Strife’s Character Profile, Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania

Response: A] Of course the family is ascribed to Cloud in his character profile. However, all members of this ‘family of friends’ are equally entitled to ownership of the family.   B] Ownership of the family is ascribed to Barret in his character profile as well: “Upon finding out that Edge was under attack during the midst of his travels, he rushed overtowards the crisis faced by his family and companions.” ~Barret Wallace’s Character Profile; Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix C] According to Tifa Lockhart, this is a ‘family of friends.’ D] One has to simply read Case of Tifa to see Cloud’s family is the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family that was re-built with the help of founding member, Barret Wallace.

5. When Tifa discusses this ‘family of friends,’ she mentions all of them having the same sins. What are Marlene and Denzel’s sins?

Response: A] That would be a great question to pose to Tifa, though this red-herring doesn’t take away from the fact Tifa views this family as a ‘family of friends.’ B] I’d imagine Tifa doesn’t consider the children her friends, but rather children being raised by three friends that decided to form a family together.

[theonewhomeltshisfrostyexterior]

brokeback-mesopotamia replied to your post “tsuburu: has it ever occurred to anyone else that the whole “cloud…”

doesn’t tifa share a bed with marlene aswell? Haven’t read CoT in years but I think that was mentioned ??

yeppers. she slept with marlene every night. its also implied in the (crappy) english version that tifa and barret shared a room, too

cloud also has his own bedroom, as well. 

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So I just read your post on the Highwind scene and totally agree. I mean I was very baffled when some would think a 1997 Japanese game would have 'sex' in it. I mean 'sex' was pretty a taboo non-public thing back in the days not just in Japan but also Asia. Platonic, yes, but sex is a big no-no. I'm surprised how imaginative Western fans can be.

I’m glad to hear you agree… and I take it that you are not a Western fan? Anyway, I think there are some sexual themes present in FF7 (Honeybee Inn, Hojo trying to mate Red XIII with Aerith, etc) because it was an ‘adult’ game, however, I still don’t see any evidence of sex in the HA Highwind scene. 

Like I said in my essay, two months after the first guidebook (which really sparked this cIoti theory) was released, Nomura himself said he had no idea if Cloud and Tifa were in a relationship. It’s strange that someone on the development team wasn’t aware that Cloud and Tifa got together during the last few scenes of the game, especially since a guidebook supposedly confirmed it a few months prior to that interview.

People can say that Nomura just didn’t personally ‘care’ about the love triangle, but he seemed to have no problem stating there was a ‘relationship’ between Cloud and Aerith and that KHI’s ending provides answers to their relationship;

Nomura: yes, she died in final fantasy vii, but there’s no real relation to where she was at or what role she played in ffvii. there’s no relationship from ffvii to the kingdom hearts stories. i consider them separate stories. but if you play kingdom hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between cloud and aerith in ffvii might be answered. it’s sort of like a side story, and this was an extra bonus that i wanted to give to players.

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it's implied that cloud and tifa have sex, cloud walks out of the chocobo stable in the highwind the morning after they spend some time together and tifa tries to play it off nonchalantly and is embarassed

The actual fuck. Did i just turn into a merry-go-round for you people to take turns taking a stab at me? Anyways…A deleted scene btw. Since we’re working off of deleted scenes then i’ll post my conclusions as well. Sephiroth and Aerith are implied to be lovers. Sephiroth and Aerith are also implied to be brother and sister, i mean damn girl did you see the hair resemblance!? Did you know that Tifa does not exist in the FF7 universe? It’s supposed to be just Cloud, Barret, and Aerith. Did you also know that Tifa was actually assisting Sephiroth in the manipulation of Cloud and Cloud realized this and called Tifa out on it? Oh you didn’t? Because what? What?

Oh it’s a deleted scene? It didn’t make it into the final cut? Oh I didn’t know that, thank you for informing me. I will not debate with you anons in circles, because obviously you’re not talking to me, you’re talking AT me. And like I said previously, your opinion matters, your beliefs count. But don’t try to shove your own interpretation of what happened in the game down my throat. I’ve played the game more than 50 times, I’ve rethought more than enough and I’m not an insecure child anymore. I know what happened and I can put 2 and 2 together and make my own conclusions. I have things to do, places to be. 

[theonewhomeltshisfrostyexterior]

Shoutout to showbizsouls for the fabulous tags to help frame this discussion.

It’s a tension I’m really interested in, whether Aeris set out to save the Planet or the people on it, and one that I think helps to express her dual nature as both a human and an Ancient. It’s the Ancient’s responsibility to protect the planet, purportedly at all costs, and given the existence of Holy and Meteor as weapons in their toolkit, they were prepared to go pretty far.

Though we usually see the Ancients in the context of an inscrutable healer race, Yuffie’s insight and Ifalna’s history lesson tell us that their lives and struggles weren’t nearly so idyllic. Aeris bears the weight of two-thousand year struggle, “a crisis beyond human power and endless time.” Even if her heritage hadn’t caused her so much strife growing up, it’s a small wonder she seems to turn in on herself the more she learns about what it means to be an Ancient.

Ultimately, I don’t think that Aeris ever chose the planet over its people, whatever the stakes she was playing with when it came to Holy. Sephiroth’s plan would have wounded the planet, but that isn’t what Aeris objects to when she tells him the future doesn’t belong solely to him. The planet may seem somewhat indifferent to the people’s plight, but Aeris never is.

I think her “people over principles” approach helps solidify not only her reconciliation of an apparently disparate identity but also her role in the story as a messianic figure. It’s not just a matter of death and transcendence that makes her seem that way. She doesn’t have to be a martyr; she took on so much even in life. She believed in and fought for the good of people well before anyone could understand the scope of that decision, and well after that burden became too much for everyone to bear without feeling utterly powerless.

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what do you think of the claim that one is hypocrite if they only hate sakura but not naruto? I just feel more sorry for naruto bcuz he too is traumatised lol even if he doesn't realise konoha is bad (which I know sucks)

Naruto and Sakura are not on the same level on anything, never were, never will be. Not in goals, not in motivations, anything.

Naruto grew up ostracised by the village, he didn’t have any role models, anyone to teach him about anything. Disregarding his upbringing, trauma and consequences of his trauma is also disregarding a great part of his character. He was also seen as a human weapon since he was a baby, because of Kurama, he didn’t even have a choice. Sakura had parents, a home, friends, no traumas, everything a kid should have. Why did she become a ninja? To get together with the hot jock.

Naruto shows concerns about the system through the series, he had doubts, he wanted to change things, he, too, is a victim of the same system. Unfortunately, Kishimoto dropped all of this in the ending because of lazy writing and reasons this post explains better than I ever could and I think it’s very unfair with his character. Sakura never showed any concern to any of those things, she’s privileged.

Naruto had to almost die for everybody to not be treated the way he was before, like a person, not a monster y’know, other characters, like Sakura, didn’t. Also, if you consider the way people treated him before, it’s very possible that he doesn’t stand up for himself and point out how unfair that was because he fears being hated again.

I’m not gonna sugarcoat Naruto’s behaviour with Sasuke, but it also doesn’t compare to Sakura’s. He had both selfish and selfless reasons to want Sasuke back, yes he wanted Sasuke’s acknowledgement, which is selfish, but he was also worried about Sasuke’s safety (i.e. Orochimaru stealing his body). Sakura wanted Sasuke back because she wanted to get in his pants, she doesn’t show concerns for his safety, nor any attempt to understand him, her “love” confessions are always about her feelings. I’m also not saying Naruto understands Sasuke 100%, but he shows how much he wants to and he does understand him to a certain point. He says at chapter 698 that he can’t leave Sasuke alone and carrying all his burdens on his own because that hurts. Naruto’s feelings are genuine, Sakura’s aren’t. That’s why when she talks about her “love”, Sasuke either rejects her politely and leaves or he rejects her, says she’s delusional and puts her in a cruel genjutsu. When Naruto talks about his feelings, however, Sasuke laughs and cries and calls him the affectionate nickname “usuratonkachi”.

Also, Naruto’s attachment to Sasuke is very understandable when you consider his traumas: Sasuke sacrificed himself for Naruto in a time everybody except for Iruka treated him as someone worthless, that’s why he says he was saved thanks to Iruka and Sasuke. Sasuke puts his goals in line for Naruto’s sake, Naruto was willing to do the same thing for Sasuke. Sakura’s attachment to Sasuke is, again, because she wants to be with him. Also, why does she want to be with him? For his looks and “coolness”.

When Sasuke was declared an international criminal, Naruto never stopped believing Sasuke was a good person, he just understood that Sasuke was hurting, that he was also a victim, Naruto didn’t care about what he did. He let the Kumo’s nins beat him up because he couldn’t betray Sasuke, he got on his knees and begged to the Raikage to drop the charges against Sasuke because he didn’t want him to die and he had a panic attack when he thought that could happen. Sakura never stopped to consider any of that, she just decided to follow the orders and kill him, it really felt like “you either act the way I expect you to or you die”.

Yes anon, I agree, Naruto is also very fucked up and a victim, just because he acts happy and goofy doesn’t mean he’s okay and, as I said, it’s very unfair and even revolting to see him swallowing everything down because people are nice to him now.

[theonewhomeltshisfrostyexterior]

Bruh I can’t even go into the anti sasusaku tag without seeing a post sympathetic towards S@kur@ when really she had no business chasing down a man who literally tried to destroy the Hidden Leaf (for a good reason mind you) and stormed the Kage Summit. The fact is they’re both shit characters for different reasons 🙃🙃🙃

[theonewhomeltshisfrostyexterior]

wait why are we disliking s*susaku for the wrong reasons? sakura doesn’t “deserve better” than sasuke because sasuke never showed romantic interest in her in the first place. sasuke doesn’t owe sakura anything for not returning her feelings and it’s not his fault that she couldn’t handle rejection. she was the one decided to chase him down, not the other way around.