#Ml season 4 critical

[familyagrestefanblog]

The existence of the Ox miraculous is such an unnecessary ugly detail when you think about Ladynoir and how Chat Noir served as the punching bag and scapegoat for Ladybug, Alya as Marinette's actual partner in season 4, and the whole team in every single way pre-s5

The Ox gives the power of immunity even against any other Miraculous power. One would think with Adrichat's self-harming tendencies that canon had Marinette make entirely about herself because "they're haunting her so much", and her still narratively entirely unchallenged tendency of leaving Chat Noir behind on the battle field as sacrifice or bait to possibly have whatever the hell done to him so she can be save and sound while she and everyone else can look and be cool on his expense

With all that, one would have thought that if Canon Marinette truly loved Chat Noir "sooooooo much" and is oh so haunted by his self-harming behavior and him always getting hurt so she sidelined him "for his own good"

Then how come at no point did Marinette do the actually caring thing by giving Chat Noir the Ox miraculous since he's ALWAYS left behind BY HER so she can leave the battle field and execute her plans with the others save and soundly? If her Chaton's well-being was oh so important to her and it always "pained her so much" to see him getting hurt then why was the Ox only used 2 insignificant times by Ivan at the end of season 4 when it could have saved Chat Noir ALOT of suffering all the way through?

Or the turtle. Or ANY OTHER Miraculous for that matter?

Why was Alya getting two miraculous in Hack-San perfectly fine with Marinette but heaven forbid Marinette is actually expected to ACT like she gives a damn about Chat Noir's well-being as his leader, guardian, partner, and friend and not just the show having her claim superficial words that hardly have anything to back them up once they actually have to mean something?

Its almost as if Canon inherently doubled down on having Marinette be the kind of leader who will only do things in a way that primarily benefit HER while everything else gets swept under the rug because she isn't maliciously intentioned and then never brought up again. And unfortunately it was her who was written to prioritize making an unnecessary team of 18 miraculous holders no one ever asked of her to form (Su-Han even told her NOT to give out the miraculous like candy),

so Marinette was just made to not consider Chat Noir either at all or simply not as worthy enough of any kind of consideration in her entire leadership/ guardianship or actual safety, support, or ANY KIND of resource since that wouldn't be narratively about her, now would it?

She can't have Chat have the Ox because she might need Ivan as Ox in 4 months and she doesn't want to have to ask Chat to get it back or end up NOT getting to use this ONE other Miraculous out of a whole ass box, because that would involve a basic ass conversation Marinette can't have apparently or her not getting to use all of the miraculous however she pleases at any given point

The horror. Now she would have only 14 miraculous to work with!

As per usual, count me fucking unimpressed by Marinette's writing. The negligence towards Chat Noir on even the most basic level is insane and she was declared the epitome of leadership and kindness for this.

Cool that Marinette already decided in her head that Ivan is suitable for the Ox miraculous and he should get it in future, but Chat Noir needing help and protection wasn't some theoretical case, it constantly happened right in front of her eyes and even by her own freaking orders too because she never thinks of him in ANYTHING and the show glorified the hell out of her as leader for doing all that

Why is looking into ANY detail only making Marinette's side of Ladynoir so much worse ever since season 4? There is no escaping this! Just don't add the Ox with this power or actually have Marinette be a good leader towards Chat Noir. But noooooooooo.

#ml writing critical #Ml Marinette critical #Ladynoir conflict salt #Marinette is unfortunately still an awful leader to Chat Noir but can't be called out for ANYTHING #No matter what price Adrien has to pay for it #Rip Ladynoir #And Rip Marinette I once loved so much #Ml season 4 salt #Ml season 4 critical

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

It's weird to expect lb to be able to read cn mind and called her a bad partner for it. But it's even weirder for lb to ignore cn WHEN HES OBVIOUSLY IN DISTRESS and not called her a bad partner for it because I think called her a bad partner for ignoring it is understandable and justified especially since she consider herself as his boss.

Every time I bring up this conflict, I try to make it clear that I don't think Ladybug was blameless, I just think Chat Noir's writing was worse. Let's walk through the problem to show what I mean.

Season four stars with Marinette extremely stressed by her new Guardian status. In Truth and Lies, the first episodes of the season, we get this:

Ladybug: Will you cut it out with the practical jokes? I could have really hurt you! Cat Noir:(answering while hanging by the yo-yo) M'lady, the only thing that really hurts me is when you make me go on patrol by myself. (sighs, relaxing his posture) I even missed your little angry pout. Ladybug: Sorry, Kitty Cat, I'm a bit over my head at the moment. (pulling him up) Cat Noir: I bet! "Guardian of the Miraculous", big name, big responsibility!

This is also the start to Chat Noir communicating poorly. In this episode, he's straight up told that Ladybug is in over her head and he never once asks how he can help. In fact, we even get him saying this when asked how he feels about the change:

Truth: Cat Noir, tell me what- (interupted by Ladybug throwing a present at Truth) Ladybug: (covering her parasol with foil) ...do you think about my new role as guardian! Cat Noir: If it doesn't change things between us, then I'm good with it!

So not a great start to the season. I know people focused on Adrien's terrible treatment of Kagami in these episodes, but this Ladynoir dynamic was actually what rang alarm bells for me. I kept waiting for Chat Noir to offer his support since it was really, really obvious that Ladybug was in over her head since she was late to patrols, the last season literally ended with her losing her mentor figure, and, you know, she straight up told him that was what was going on?

The next episode is Gang of Secrets in which we see Marinette out her identity to Alya. I get why she did this, she needed support and her partner doesn't seem interested in giving it, but she can't say that for certain because she never asked him directly and she should have. Trusting Chat Noir over Alya would have allowed Ladynette to maintain the security of her secret identity - a thing she claimed was more important than ever - and to honor their partnership. At the very least, she should have told Chat Noir that Rena Rouge was now a full time holder so that he could account for that in battle and to minimize the fallout by owning up to her mistake asap. The longer a lie goes on, the worse the truth will hurt.

To Ladybug's credit, she does eventually acknowledge her mistake after the Scarabella incident:

Ladybug: You... must've been pretty surprised to discover there was another holder! (Silence. She sits beside Cat Noir.) Ladybug: I'm really sorry, Cat Noir. I should've told you. I mean, if I found out that you told someone about your secret identity, I'd... probably be upset, too. I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings.

This is a decent apology. She doesn't try to absolve herself of wrong doing. Instead, she acknowledges that what she did would hurt her, too, if the shoe were on the other foot. The only thing she loses points on is the fact that she doesn't tell him about Rena Furtive.

However, instead of agreeing with her and telling her that she has hurt him, Chat Noir says that she did nothing wrong and never once brings up how their weakened partnership is bothering him:

Cat Noir: You didn't hurt my feelings. You did everything right. Paris will always need a Ladybug superhero to watch over her. It's just... I realized that if one day that hero wasn't you, m'lady, since we don't know each other's identities, that means... I'd never see you again. Ever. And now, I just don't know if I can bear it.

This is the thing that I hate about this arc. The reason why I say Ladybug is blamed for not reading his mind. Especially because, three episodes later, we get Rocketear, which gives us this:

Cat Noir: Everyone has doubts now and then, (looks down) even me... Ladybug: Is everything okay, Cat Noir? Cat Noir: Yeah, yeah. (prepare his fist) Pound it! Ladybug: (fistbumps) Pound it!

Rocketear is the episode where Nino outs that he and Alya know each other's identities while acting like Ladybug said identities weren't a big deal even though that is very much not what happened. You'd think that Chat Noir would want to know the full story, but instead he just lies and says that everything is fine.

So we have two situations where the show allowed Ladybug to give Chat Noir a chance for clear and open communication and both times he turns her down.

What's worse is that he clearly starts making up stories in his head, leading to Kuro Neko, which starts with Adrien avoiding a fight on purpose as some sort of shit test. He then gets upset when Ladybug... doesn't lament his absence on national TV?

Clara: (from TV) By the way, where's Cat Noir? You've saved Paris without him quite a few times recently. Are you two at odds with each other? Carapace, Pegasus, Vesperia and Pigella: (from TV) Pound it! Ladybug: (from TV) Of course not, it's just that... umm, he's a partner like any other! The most important is to pick the best superheroes for each mission, with or without Cat Noir. No matter what, we've got a great team and we'll always be here to save Paris. (Adrien is shocked.) Adrien: (turns off the TV and sighs) "A partner like any other..."

Dude, what did you want her to do here? Complain that you flaked on her? Make Paris feel less safe by saying she doesn't know where you are? Imply that the fight was barely won without you? What are you doing? Plagg, you are completely failing as a mentor right now.

The shit test continues as Chat Noir goes to meet up with Ladybug now that the battle is over, arriving just as Ladybug has finished instructing the team on what to do:

Ladybug: Come on, guys! Hurry up before you all detransform. I'll meet you at rendezvous points. (The heroes jump away in different directions, and Ladybug starts typing something on her Yo-yo.) Cat Noir: Hey! Meow are you, m'lady? Ladybug: Great, thanks, but I gotta go retrieve all these Miraculous. Cat Noir: I could lend you a paw to help save time. Ladybug: Thanks, kitty cat, but it's a guardian's job to do it. Cat Noir: I know who some of them are, remember? I was there when you first gave them their Miraculous! Ladybug: You don't even know where their rendezvous points are, I don't have time to— Cat Noir: Playing cat and mouse is my forte, you know— Ladybug: (yelling) If you wanna save me time, stop wasting it in the first place! (Cat Noir gasps. As Ladybug swings away, Cat Noir clenches his fist.) Cat Noir: And take my Miraculous back when you're done!

So Ladybug doesn't publicly chastise Chat Noir for missing the battle and rejects an offer to help because of very legitimate timing concerns, leading to Chat Noir quitting because she failed his stupid, petty, childish tests. Realistic writing? Yes. Writing that paints Ladybug as the one in the wrong? No.

Going into this episode, Ladybug has no idea that things are messed up between them even though she has actually kept communication lines open. She asks him if things are okay, but he lies. And when he's ready to quit? He plays stupid games and wins a stupid prize. It's really not shocking that the next scene sees Ladybug totally baffled by what just happened:

Plagg: For a while now, you've been neglecting this camembert— I mean Cat Noir, and going on adventures with the all other cheeses! Ladybug: But he should be happy about it, it gives him more time off. Plagg: Cat Noir doesn't wanna have time off, Ladybug! He is in love with you! And your persistent calling on all the other heroes has broken his heart.

And how is she supposed to know that, Plagg? Was she supposed to assume that her partner was lying when he said he was fine? Because she did ask and he said that nothing was wrong. But something was wrong and it lead him to build up a story in his head, reading nonexistent intent into her actions, all of which is toxic and unhealthy communication.

I cannot stress how common this shit is. I've seen it so many times and I will own that I've done it in the past and wound up getting no support when I needed it because I'd directly told people I didn't and they committed the heinous crime of... believing me.

Here's the other thing, there are times when I'm in distress and legitimately don't want or need help. Times when I just need to be alone for a bit. So if someone asks me if I'm okay during those times, I'm probably just going to say, "Yeah, I just need a people break" or something like that. That's why the Scarabella scene is so bad. Ladybug can see that Chat Noir is in distress and he gives her a fully plausible answer: I'm not upset with you, I'm just saddened by the idea of losing you. And she believes him because why wouldn't she?

Same goes for Rocketear. It's reasonable for Ladybug to assume that Chat Noir is just shaken by the fight. She has no idea about the bombshell that Nino dropped right before the fight. She doesn't even know that Nino and Chat Noir are actually close friends, making this fight a lot more devastating than it looks at face value. Her actions here are not objectively wrong. They're only wrong if you know the whole story, including Adrien's needs. Things that she cannot know unless Chat Noir uses his words to tell her things.

I cannot over stress how much season four is a textbook example of denying yourself support because you cannot communicate your own needs. Is it an understandable character flaw for a character with Adrien's background to have? Yes. Absolutely. 100%. But it's still a character flaw. This season desperately needed an arc about Adrien learning to tell people what's wrong. Not because he's the only one in the wrong here, but because things cannot get better when Ladybug has no idea that she's hurting him. (Nino has no idea either, but let's keep our focus on Ladybug.)

One of the most important things you can do for your own mental well being is to dismiss the idea that your needs are the same as everyone else's. Everyone needs different amounts of attention and values different behavior based on things like their upbringing and life events.

I get the feeling that I'm wired pretty similar to Marinette. At least, it influences how I write her because I can go months without talking to my best friends and still call them my best friends, a trait we all share because two of use are artsy introverts and two of us are moms to young kids, which allows for very little free time. Meanwhile, my SO and his best friend spend hours on the phone almost every week. I swear that those two go into withdrawal if they don't talk at least once every seven days. If months went by without them talking? Something would be very wrong, but the exact same time gap isn't even remotely concerning when it comes to my friends. It's something my SO and I had to figure out when we got together because I need a lot less attention than he does. But we communicated and found a balance that we continue to work to communicate about so that he doesn't feel neglected and I don't feel overwhelmed by too little me time.

What I'm trying to say is Marinette wasn't horribly wrong for assuming that Chat Noir was telling her the truth or that he liked having a larger team so he had less responsibility. Those are reasonable assumptions. Especially since he never actually indicated that he wanted more responsibility until he was ready to quit and decided to shit test her by pushing for more to do when she was stressed and on a timer.

I do think that she should have offered it to him before that or - at the very least - the show should have clearly stated why she didn't do that since it apparently had nothing to do with Chat Blanc trauma like we all thought it did. I'm not saying that she's blameless or perfect or that there weren't things she could have done better. It's just really hard for me to look at Chat Noir's behavior in season four and go, "Oh yeah, he's the injured party here. Ladybug holds all the blame and did everything wrong." She did many things wrong, but generally speaking, she owned her faults and tried to keep communication channels open. Chat Noir chose to ignore those chances to talk or otherwise try to express his needs in a clear and understandable manner.

We'll end with one final point to drive this home: You said that she's his boss. Well, if my boss asked me, "is everything okay with the project?" and I said, "yes" while freaking out about the upcoming deadline that I'm probably going to miss because he's given me too much work, the issue is not all on my boss. It's on both of us. Him for overloading me and me for not telling him I'm overloaded. You could even argue that it's mostly on me because I'm the only one who can properly gauge my own ability to do a given workload. As soon as it was too much, I should have said something. And if I don't feel like my boss is approachable? Then I should quit. But that isn't the situation I'm in and it doesn't appear to be the one that Chat Noir was in, either. He wanted to stay part of the team, he just totally failed to tell Ladybug how being on the team was making him feel.

People magically knowing what you need and how you feel is a myth. I promise you, most people in this world do not want to cause you pain, but if you cannot clearly express when someone is causing you pain, then you will continue to get hurt by people who would be very happy to not hurt you if they actually knew that their actions were causing you pain.

#ml writing critical #ml writing salt #adrien deserves better #marinette deserves better #I do give Luka a bit of a side eye for not getting involved after Wishmaker though #Dude's supposed to be some sort of empath and he's at his best when he's in a mentor role #He should have been allowed to be Adrien's Alya since Nino is clearly not suited for the role #Season four my belothed #kuro Neko salt #ml season 4 salt #you cannot expect someone to correct their behavior when no one is telling them that they're behaving badly #And no one calls Marinette out so of course she doesn't change her behavior! #She is shown to be willing to change when prompted too #She only knew that something was wrong post Scarabella because Alya told her #Do you really think Marinette was aware that she was hurting Chat Noir and just willfully kept doing it? #Or is it more likely that she just didn't know because no one told her? #Feel free to give Tikki some blame too because she's been a real shitty mentor for a while now #which breaks my heart because I love Tikki and Plagg and want them to be good mentors

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Okay seriously though, what was the lesson we were supposed to take away from the ML Season 5 finale?

I am dead serious, what was the grand lesson that Children can be taught here.

Season 1 with Volpina showed that Lies pile up and how letting your emotions get the better of you can have consequences.

Season 2 heroes day was all about believing in yourself but also knowing when to rely on others.

Even Season 3 Miracle Queen had a lesson, The lesson being that life sometimes doesnt have things work out how they are supposed to but we have to power through and make the most of it. (I still hated that finale, but it at least had a message.)

Season 4 was used to reinforce the lessons of the previous 3 seasons, and thats why its the best finale of the 4, and even added the importance of keeping hope.

What was Season 5's finale's lesson? I am racking my brain on trying to figure it out.

#ml #ml season 1 #ml season 2 #ml season 3 #ml season 4 #ml season 5 #what is the lesson? #ml critical

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“It’s kind of dumb that the show writes the entirety of season 4 as Ladybug’s fault for “not trusting Chat Noir” when he’s not innocent at all. He has done some things immature and untrustworthy in the past. Being loyal doesn't always mean that you are reliable enough or ready to handle a bigger secret/responsibility.”

#ml salt #mlb salt #miraculous #adrien salt #adrien critical #chat noir critical #chat noir salt #ml #mlb #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug confessions #confession 2238 #miraculous season 4

[miraculousalt]

So when S6 starts Adrien wont know yet that Ladybug didn get the Butterfly miraculous cuz she'll probably just tell suhan, Alya n maybe Luka. So Chat Noir will likly ask her for a reveal in ep 1 cause thats wha they always said, they reveal when its save.

Is there evn any point in hoping tha she ll go bout that any other way than jus lyin her ass off again, stall for time with excuse afta excuse until Lila will attack as Butterfly & Chat has to find out the worst way again tha she lied to him n keepin his hopes up? Her jus keepin him 'happy' by telling him they ll finlly getta know each other soon just for her to never have had that intention in the first place?

Wow, that sounds like Ephemeral all over again. Great, cant wait.

#ml season 4 salt #marinette salt #ladynoir critical #ladybug salt #i'm tagging it salt fuck off #Ml season 6 #Thinking bout S6 LadyNoir will never ever lead to anythin good #Ml leaks #Ml season 5 finale

[chronicallylatetotheparty]

Hmm, the fact that we're in 2022 and the fandom is still all: "Wow, I can't believe this depressed child isn't suffering the consequences of his actions."

That's because he's busy suffering the consequences of

Everyone Else's

actions.

#ml fandom critical #ml fandom salt #ml season 4

[overworkedunderwhelmed]

The Marichat hate is sometimes just as bad as some of the other ships get.  

In the end, Ladrien and Marichat both get canon scraps and it rarely ever canonically lasts or goes well for us.  Most of us know all too well whatever minor victory we get is short-lived.

What really doesn’t need to keep happening is that people need to be genuinely rude about it.

Personally, I am a LadyNoir fan first and foremost, but I thoroughly enjoy all of the ship moments because they are *looks down at notes* the same two people after all.

It’s the same relationship that is only going to be all the more rich and have all the more internal worrying factors because of moments like these (as opposed to say sudden reappearance of ship rivals to add conflict) to drive the plot along for the rest of this season.

#miraculous ladybug #ml fandom salt #ml fandom critical #ml spoilers #ml elation #we don't need a bible or leaks to tell us it wouldn't last #we've been watching the show for 4+ seasons now

[mamayura]

I just need to be direct about some things for Ladybugs side of Ladynoir in s5 now for a sec.

It's just.. somebody please tell me how I am supposed to believe that Marinette actually learned something from the season 4 Ladynoir conflict or won't continue to just fall further back on her words when Revelation showed that Ladybug will lie and use Chat Noir as bait and a tool again to continue her s4 treatment of him and how he was nothing but the scapegoat/pet/punching bag for her and Alya for the entire season? Something she already in s4 barely felt appropriately bad about until the end of Strike Back had her pull a 180

Marinette literally proofed in Revelation that she has in fact either not learning anything or doesn't think Chat Noir deserves a better treatment, season 5 just didn't give her the chance to pull this more often because there were no other heros. What am I supposed to expect from her in season 6 now taht the entire team is back?

How am I supposed to think that Ladybug is capable of having a partnership with Chat Noir were both of them are allowed to make mistakes without getting punished for it when Derision is literally the episode about how her being bullied and publicly humiliated is the core of her trauma and yet the same episode has her go back and put Chat Noir at the risk of the very same thing by her own hands again because of the lucky charm plan, and as per usual HE apologizes for having been emotional and yet she never takes accountability for how she then proceeded to use him?

So people in season 4 were right? Ladybug is not capable of behaving normal in this partnership, the moment Chat Noir makes a mistakes or has a bad day or is affected by a power she will continue using him then however she pleases. Is she just not capable of coming up with other plans? Can Chat Noir really not exist in this partnership without being at the constant risk of being turned into a tool and scapegoat while being humiliated in their dynamic the moment he does something wrong? Is the only way of preventing that Chat himself not making mistakes again because Ladybug can't be asked to not do this shit to her partner?

Or can Adrien for once NOT be the only one to apologize in situations like that? I wouldn't be as harsh on what she did in Derision if Psycomedian in season 4 didn't exist where it was already established that Ladybug takes it for granted what Chat Noir puts up with for and from her and that got maxed out for all of season 4. And yet in season 5 Derision we are somehow not one step further? Can she not just say "Hey, about the toilet thing. Sorry that I went after you there, it was my first instinct because the power was to act out the meanest humor. Sorry for having used you like that again though, I will try to do better"

In the context of what Marinette's traumatic backstory is that plan of hers showed 0 self-reflection and once again puts all pressure on Chat Noir to not make a mistake around her or else she will apparently go back to her old ways without feeling bad about it. If Ladybug never clarifies anything then the episode just had her indirectly tell him that this is still what he has to expect from her when he has a bad day or whatever. Just like with Ladybugs violence in s4 she was never asked to take an ounch of accountability for and teached children bad lessons on how to treat friends several times because she's a girl and can get away with it, Derision has her indirectly reinforce that Chat's responsible for her treatment of him. He needs to do better to prevent her from pulling stuff like that because she's "justified" in whatever she does to him anyway as s4 teached us.

Or the fact in Migration neither Marinette nor Adrien know for sure if their partner knows that Luka knew their identity and Monarch picked up on that, and yet only for Adrien one can make a legit argument for why he didn't bring it up and that's the fact that Ladybug and Luka left him for so long all alone in the akuma battle that he would rightfully assume that this is were Ladybug and Luka talked about everything. Marinette on the other hand has no excuse for why she is keeping the fact that Monarch knows that Luka is aware of both their identities a secret from Chat Noir. It's yet another impossibly irresponsible secret directly concerning Chat's life and possibly the safety of all his civilian loved ones she just keeps from him and can't be criticized for because it's Marinette.

So she learned nothing from season 4 and stuff like Ephemeral?

Or even just little moments like Marinette proudly confirming to Alya behind Chat's back that she had him wear the insult paper in his bell for an entire season and them laughing, when it should be a no brainer that Chat didn't agree to wear it so she can tell it others behind his back for him to be laughed at. He trusted her that nothing bad would come out of it and yet that's what she did the moment Alya was there. That is such an awful thing to do. You don't do that to friends. Thats what I expect from Chloé, not Ladybug in Ladynoir.

Or in Réunion when Jeanne was talking down on Chat Noir because she is projecting her own Black Cat issues on Chat by insulting a 14 year old boy for not looking like a full grown man and Marinette.. agrees. One episode prior Marinette was gushing towards Alya about Chat's looks, muscles and whatever but the moment Marinette is insecure in front of an adult Ladybug who isn't all nice to her she directly agrees with insults unfairly directed at Chat Noir through backhanded compliments about "but he's very loyal" because at least it isn't her? And right in front of Chat too?

What's even worse is that Adrien couldn't see or hear Jeanne so from his perspective he literally just witnessed Ladybug agreeing with an insult about him spoken by a past Ladybug while he can't at all defend himself. Chat has no way to tell if the past Ladybug isn't constantly insulting him because apparently his Ladybug won't even disagree or sees any problem with that, and neither does he know if that already went on prior to meeting him.

It's moments like that for which I'm genuinely glad that he rejected her next episode in Elation. Why would he want to still date Ladybug when shes agreeing with insults being directed at him? Adrien was noticeably more insecure from then on in Réunion because he just doesn't know how hard he's being trash-talked and Ladybug just agreed :/

And then of course there is Kwamis choice right after Elation which.. dude, from Adrien's perspective he rejected Ladybug ONCE and then she fucking LEFT. Instantly. Adrien learned that episode that Ladybug herself is apparently a hypocrite and can't take a no either. Their entire partnership dynamic demands of him to be her yes-man and never ask for anything, never saying "no" and if he does than she stands under no obligation to respect it like when she still just uses her guardian privileges to overwrite him having renounced his Miraculous.

And then she for the first time actually had to respect Chat telling her "No" about something and she left. The ending of Hack-San is meaningless now because of Kwamis choice!

Season 5? What am I supposed to do with stuff like that for Ladynoir? Did Marinette learn something in the Ladynoir conflict of season 4 or only partly and I have to expect her regressing again and going back on her words because she was never properly called out on anything? If calling her out is the only way Marinette can learn then why is no one asking BETTER of her in important stuff like this regarding Ladynoir?

Did Marinette learn something or nah? Or will you at least have Alya want better for Chat Noir when Marinette herself already can't do it?

#ml season 5 #ml season 4 #ml ladynoir critical #ml rant #this isnt salt I'm listing stuff she did #im just frustrated at stuff like this #ml spoilers #miraculous #ml

[hamsteriffic]

Miraculous Fandom Stats

Cloudy with a chance of Miraculous

As mentioned in my previous post, the ML fanfics on Ao3 can reflect changing opinions and theories. I wanted to look at this in a more qualitative manner using Ao3 tags, starting with The Miraculous Big Bang (methodology below the cut).

The Miraculous Big Bang is a fandom event that has been running for several years where people collaborate to write fanfics and draw fanart. These collections provide a good snapshot of fanfics written at a particular point in time.

🖤 Word Clouds

The Miraculous Big Bang was run in 2017, 2021, 2022, 2023, which covers a period of six years from Season 1 to Season 5 (see below the cut for more details on the methods).*

2017: There were a lot of tags that mentioned Season 2 spoilers, which suggests that these fics are based off mostly Season 1 content. This collection of fics had a lot of Historical AUs (Sample size: 32) [1].

2021: By now, Luka Couffaine and Kagami Tsurugi feature prominently in the tags for Miraculous Big Bang 2021 (Sample Size: 43 fics) [2].

2022: There are a lot of darker undertones in this word cloud (Sample size: 34 fics).

2023: Noticeable jump in fics labelled for Sentimonsters as well as LGQBTI+ tags (Sample size: 37 fics) [4]

🖤 In summary

Judging from the 2023 big bang, fics were written in the six months prior to posting, so this would cover a pretty sizeable timeframe. For example, Season 2 was aired between December 2017 and November 2018; and introduced rival love interests Luka Couffaine and Kagami Tsurugi.

Luka Couffaine was tagged an average of 10 and Kagami Tsurugi 7.7 times across 2021, 2022 and 2023.

Interestingly, Lila Rossi was introduced in s01e26 (Volpina) and was tagged 8 times in 2023, excluding other tags such as Lila lies, Lila manipulation, Evil Lila Rossi; while tags for Chloe Redemption remained constant (3 fics each in 2017, 2021, 2022, 2023).

* credit to @miraculousbigbang and clairelutra who ran the initial ML Big Bang in 2017, and @mlbigbang who ran the subsequent 2021, 2022 and 2023 Big Bang events.

📈 This Data is a snapshot of the posted fics on Ao3 on

🖤 Acknowledgements

A huge thank you to @miabrown007 and @ryanidious for their help in providing me with information for the mlbigbang 2017!

🖤 Methodology

Sample Collection

Looking at all this quantitative data is fine, but I want to go a bit deeper (but not too deep, I don’t have time to read every single fic). A good way to get an idea on the content of a fic is through the Ao3 tagging system.

I need a way to look through the tags used over time, but this seems like too a mammoth task in Ao3 (more detail on that below the cut).

The good news is that Ao3 has a feature within collections that does that for me!

My instant thought went to the Miraculous Big Bang. It’s perfect because it is an unbiased collection (e.g. if it was a birthday gift or personal collection of recs, the fics would be tailored to the person’s tastes and preferences).

Word Clouds

Word clouds are an interesting tool to quickly look at recurring words. However, major criticisms of this method is that you can lose the context the words are used in. This is a good article to describe considerations when using a word cloud [5]. However, the nature of Ao3 tags is that the context is either inherent or are merely keywords.

Data Cleaning

Now unfortunately this word cloud needed some cleaning to remove commonly used tags. When I first did this all I got was a big image with the words Miraculous, Adrien Agreste, Ladybug, Chat Noir and Marinette Dupain-Cheng, and Miraculous Big Bang which I think you can see is not very informative.

Removed Keywords: Adrien Agreste, Adrienette, Marinette Dupain-Cheng, Ladybug, Chat Noir, Miraculous, Miraculous Big Bang

When these were removed, I put the tags into a free word cloud generator such as https://www.freewordcloudgenerator.com/generatewordcloud.

There is no natural language processing so I have hyphenated common phrases. Ao3's word cloud has already combined the common keywords and enlarged them, so I had to manually check how many times they appear to add them back. It's not exact but it works.

References

[1] Miraculous Big Bang 2017: https://archiveofourown.org/collections/miraculousbang2k17

[2] Miraculous Big Bang 2021: https://archiveofourown.org/collections/MLBB_2021

[3] Miraculous Big Bang 2022: https://archiveofourown.org/collections/MLBB_2022

[4] Miraculous Big Bang 2023: https://archiveofourown.org/collections/MLBB_2023

[5] https://www.betterevaluation.org/methods-approaches/methods/word-cloud

#miraculous fanworks #miraculous ladybug #miraculous fanfic #miraculous fandom #hamster stats #Fandom stats #ao3 stats #mlbigbang #mlbigbang 2023 #mlbigbang 2022 #mlbigbang 2021 #luka couffaine #kagami tsuguri #lila rossi

[nothingtherefornow]

Something I'm worried to see happen in the future of Miraculous Ladybug

So ... I've noticed something interresting in the Miraculous Special Paris, when Alya scrolled through Sabine's contacts to call Marinette after her own phone has been destroyed, Sabine's main contacts shown on her phone are Nadja Chamack, Caline Bustier, Mr. Damoclès, Agent Roger, Mr. Bourgeois, Alya Cesaire, Gina Bianshi (Marinette's paternal grandmother full name), "Chéri" (her husband Tom Dupain), Marinette, Rolan Dupain, Maître Wang (Sabine's uncle/Marinette's gran uncle) and Lila Rossi ... Lila freaking Rossi.

I don't know about you, but I personnally find it very disturbing and worrying that among the people that Sabine's knows, she included Lila among her main contacts sometimes between the end of season 4 and the epsiode Destruction of season 5.

While we only ever saw Sabine and Lila interract with each other during painting lessons for a few weeks, it seems that it was either enough for Lila to really grow closer to Sabine, or that they've been seeing each other outside of those painting lessons, and Lila made herself lovable enough for Sabine to grow fond of her, and totally ignore or forget the fact that Lila almost got Marinette expelled and still find room to criticize her ("Its such a shame that your daugther Marinette don't bother to take advantage of all your have to teach" and seriously what kind of mother stay unmoved when somoene who's not even friend with said daugther makes such condescending comment about her ? As loving as you are Sabine, you're really too passive for Marinette's own good -_-)

I'm now even more scared that during season 6, Lila may really manage to create tensions between Marinette and her parents by manipulating them, and especially Sabine. Otherwise why would have the ML writter even bother to make Lila get close enough to Sabine for the woman to accept a hug from her, while Lila was bold enough to say to Sabine "you're like a mother to me" ? But then to not have Lila exploit that friendship with Marinette's mother to further hurt the poor girl during season 5 ? To me this can only mean that they plan to make Lila use her past "friendship" with Sabine to make those worries of me come true in season 6, or later in season 7.

There's no way the ml writters won't make Lila, Cerise, Iris or wathever her true name is, make use of what she may have potentially learn from Sabine, or make use of the fact that Sabine was was fond of the girl named Lila Rossi, to find others ways to further hurt Marinette.

#miraculous special paris #miraculous ladybug #sabine cheng #lila rossi #ml season 6 speculations

[chatonnoir]

hi i wanted to let you know i have been into miraculous literally since PV days but have strayed from the fandom since around season 2-3 when "salt" stuff started getting really popular. i was tired of seeing my favorites being mangled beyond recognition to fit some weird revenge fantasy, so i just stopped. recently though i missed the blorbos. its people like you who genuinely love the show and the characters that have made my more recent experiences incredibly lovely and fulfilling. thank u :]

Aw thank you honey :’) truly as someone who got a little in to ML in 2016 and enjoyed the cute fan content and saw how much fans praised it but didn't keep up with it, only to come back to it a couple of seasons later and see how insane the fandom had become over those few years .... it is truly exhausting and baffling to see what people do to the show now. Ig this is the danger of too much self-projection and a lack of critical thinking. Even people who claimed to be done with the show in season 4 continue to run blogs obsessed with """criticizing""" the show for the stupidest and most petty things possible on a daily basis, instead of just ... walking away from it if it doesn’t appeal to them anymore. It can really give you a headache.

But it all makes me think of that one quote from the end of Ratatouille (the movie which is indisputably Pixar Animation Studios' magnum opus): "the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so." ML as a show means so much to so many people of all age groups and backgrounds across the world. ML is far more meaningful and loved and contributes far more to the world than any random schmuck's salt post/fic/comic/video essay about it on the internet. ML is a sweet show! It's a cute and fun show! It's a kind show about emotions and relationships (platonic and romantic) and the power of love but isn’t designated as a Girls Show(TM), as shows with these themes often are, so boys are watching it too! And it shows us a male superhero being soft and sensitive and a hopeless romantic and in touch with his emotions without shame and a female superhero who loves him for it! Which is so important!

Similar kids cartoons when I was growing up, things like Danny Phantom, always had the romance as not an A or B or even a C plot but basically a Z plot. Literally on the back burner. An afterthought. Not something that was created out of passion and a belief that the characters would love each other and rather just thrown in because a main heterosexual relationship for the protagonist Has to be there, for some reason. Romantic moments would be limited to The Romance Episode(TM), wherein the "romantic development" is just like ... the characters accidentally held hands or kissed or something, and would often boil down to "this boy and girl are friends so OBVIOUSLY they have to like each other," without ever really showing me why they actually love each other. And don't get me started on allll the pieces of media with a forced heterosexual romance that is little more than "this male and female character have romantic and sexual tension because they're a male and female character." Or all the pieces of animated kids media where the main male character immediately likes the main female character because she's The Pretty One (As much as I love ATLA and k/ataang, even ATLA did this in the first episode). This all always felt so lacking to me as someone who was so enamored by love even as a kid.

Then comes along ML. Chat Noir didn't fall for Ladybug because he saw her and was taken with how she was Pretty. We know he thinks she's beautiful but he was completely unaffected by this fact when he first met her!!! It wasn't until he saw her stand up to evil that he fell for her! A male character falling for a female character not because Wow She Pretty but because of her bravery and cleverness and determination to stand up to evil and do good? That shouldn't be groundbreaking but it is!!! And it's beautiful!!! And Marinette didn't fall for Adrien because he was The Hot Guy or The Cool Hero or just because he's the male character and she's the female character so she just Has To. She fell for him when she saw his vulnerability and kindness!!! I would've LOVED to have grown up with a show like ML.

God the romance? I’ve never seen so much delicious Yearning in any other western kid’s cartoon. The door scene? Hoowee.... The way each of them so desperately wants the other to see both sides of them. The ending scene of Glaciator, when Ladybug is supposed to be “rejecting” Chat Noir and Chat Noir is supposed to be giving her a platonic cheek kiss, and yet it’s one of the sweetest and most utterly romantic scenes in the show. The sad undertone of Ladynoir, of being best friends but not being able to know a single thing about each other’s lives. The pure romance of the umbrella scene. The coup de foudre.

And it doesn't matter if the episode is romance-centric or not because ML has given us a male and female hero duo with so much genuine love and affection for each other that it's palpable in every episode from the very first season (especially if you’re watching in French lmao). Just... the sweet way they talk to each other, where you can hear their fondness for each other in their voices. The way they tease and roast each other. The petnames. The way they support and protect and take care of each other in and out of battles (specific moments like Ladybug looking after and reassuring Scaredy-cat Chat Noir in Reverser and Chat Noir putting Ladybug’s yo-yo over her mouth for her so she could breathe underwater in Truth make me so insane). The whole concept of “them against the world.” The way that even while loving Ladybug, Chat Noir has no problem telling her when he disagrees with her. The way they will have disagreements/conflicts that are completely in line with their established character traits and weaknesses, but aren’t able to stay mad at each other for more than a minute because of their softness for each other, and always come back from it because above all else they care about and love each other. It’s so unmatched. That’s love bitch

Speaking of how their conflicts are completely in line with their established character traits and weaknesses - the characters are incredibly deep and human and consistently written with motivations and personalities and flaws that all make so much sense! And they’ve developed so much since the start of the show! And the two protagonists mean so much to and resonate with so many people, kids and adults alike. Plenty of people have gone in to the depth of Adrien’s character and why he’s meaningful to people for paragraphs on end so I won’t repeat that, but I rarely see people talking about the beauty of Marinette’s character so I just have to point out like... A female superhero who is not a Strong Flawless Girlboss Who Needs No Man but one who is basically a female Peter Parker? A female superhero who is awkward around her crush and kind of Ridiculous and a hopeless romantic who makes stupid lovestruck faces at pictures of said crush and likes girly things and the color pink and wants to hold her boy’s hand and barely has her shit together and sometimes makes bad choices but is ultimately trying her best to balance her Great Power and Great Responsibility with her civilian life and relationships? Like, I’m not in to comics so sorry if this is inaccurate because I’m only pulling from Spider-Verse, but even Marvel’s attempt at making a girl Spider-Man through Spider-Gwen made her this cool badass with an undercut. I don’t want another Black Widow or Captain Marvel or whatever!!!! I love that ML basically gave us a female Spider-Man who is just as much of a complete disaster as Peter Parker was (talking specifically about Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield versions). I love the way both Peter and Marinette fuck up and make mistakes and bad choices and struggle to balance their two lives and accidentally end up hurting or pushing away the people who are close to them while they’re trying so hard to do what they think is right and protect the people they love with no real guidance. The loneliness of keeping their identities a secret through all that knowing that one slip up could put everyone they love in grave danger. Not to mention Marinette’s very blatant neurodivergent coding that is so clear in everything she does? Seeing her ADHD brain basically become her strength when she’s Ladybug through the bizarre connections she can make with random objects in a split second, just like how someone with ADHD would go on seemingly bizarre and random tangents mid-conversation because their brain latched on to something and quickly made a whole bunch of connections in a short amount of time while the other person was talking? Chef’s fucking kiss baby.

And I love the episodic adventures format!!!! Lots of people do!!!! The rewatch value of every episode is so good!!! Not everything has to be a 10-ep-per-season HBO drama where each 1 hour long episode is solely focused on moving the plot? People who ask for which episodes are important and which ones are “filler” that they can skip when starting ML are so weird. The fun of ML is watching all of Ladybug and Chat Noir’s fun adventures together in every episode? I love watching them just Being Ladybug and Chat Noir while they fight bad guys and have their banter. Episodes can just be Fun!!! Episodes can just exist to BE fun and silly or to explore a specific friendship or relationship rather than being focused on the main villain plot and that’s not a flaw!!!!

tl;dr: ML is a fun and cute show with very relatable, human characters and shows a beautiful, deep, powerful loving relationship between its male and female superhero leads that a lot of similar cartoons and even movies aimed at adults can’t pull off and a lot of people genuinely love this show because of it.

#answers #ml sugar #miraculous ladybug

[familyagrestefanblog]

You know what's so sad about how badly Ladynoir got nuked that it actually turns around to be funny again?

Not only did Marinette telling Chat Noir that she'll never abandon him loose all meaning in season 5 because she left after being told "no" by him once (and she already wanted to leave before Plagg initiated his plan:

I know, its almost like the show is going out of its way to nuke Ladynoir) and proceeded to not think about making sure it's at least Scarabella again who Chat Noir will be meeting after last episode to try and prevent the same "new Ladybug" disaster she said she was sorry for from happening again. And who has to tell him the bad news that this time Ladybug left for good and that it was him saying "no" that caused it.

So exactly all the problems with Hack-San again just for real and WORSE, and even the fear he was talking about at the end - that one day it wouldn't be her and he'll never see her again.

It is incredibly difficult for me to be upset with Adrien for leaving bc of all this. Even if I want to. Marinette's side is just so much worse again

But, no. That's not it!

Even the one and only tini-tiny thing she actually DID manage to remember him for while she threw the darkest red-alert situation at him in "Hack-San", it still ended up ringing pretty much hollow by the end of season 5.

I swear, not a single Ladynoir excuse for Marinette in "Hack-San" is in any way holding up. It's insane.

Cause not ONCE in all of season 4 and 5 does Marinette as Ladybug laugh at anything Chat Noir says. She straight up acknowledged it towards Alya that it makes him happy and she seriously never once does.

That is... genuinely sad. Not sad as in pathetic, just deeply saddening.

And even the few times when civilian Marinette laughs with Chat Noir, I can't remember it ever being at his jokes. It happens when other civilians are bothered by them in the cinema in "Glaciator 2" and in "Elation" when she's having fun at the date in general and later when Adrien tries to be silly while explaining something and then Marinette laughs at Chat being frustrated at himself for not being able to put what he wants to say into words.

But all of these cases are not her laughing at his jokes the way she literally said she knows makes him happy. So she's still not doing it.

Wait, no. When Marichat get the ice cream in "Elation". At least thats a moment where Marinette actively laughs at a joke Chat made. Although, she revealed in "Hack-San" that she would do so, too, even if she didn't think it's funny at all and that unfortunately does leave a very sour taste in my mouth:

Person B being the only one who genuinely laughs at person A's jokes is such a popular trope for a reason and it stings knowing that even that doesn't truly apply here.

The trope was ironically recycled into Adrien thinking Marinette's behavior is funny which he then in season 5 got shamed for by the narrative when he then found out that he was laughing at her trauma responses and he beats himself up for it (what a weird writing decision, honestly)

But Marinette as Ladybug for some reason just continued to be written to not laugh to make Chat Noir happy (even when she was oh so in love with him in the beginning of season 5) and that puts the genuineness of the rare times she does into question bc Marinette is apparently just willing to fake it every blue moon.

But I guess, credit where credit is due. She did indeed do the thing she said she knows makes Chat Noir happy ONE TIME in 52 episodes. Only as civilian, though. And mind you, she left the next episode and previously said that her laughing doesn't mean she actually thinks he's funny.

But one questionable time is better than non, right ?

#Ladynoir conflict critical #Rip Ladynoir #Ml s4 & s5 #Hack-San ages like spoiled milk #Nothing is holding up whatsoever #Why even have her say this as the one and only thing she remembers about him in Hack-San #When you have no intention on actually having her DO it??? #And have her say that the rare times she does laugh she might just be faking it? #Bro she doesn't even FAKE LAUGH #Ml season 5 #Ml season 4 #Ladynoir conflict #Ml Hack-San critical #Marinette critical

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I've recently come across a couple of season 4 fanfics that dealt with the Chat Noir feeling left out and quitting thing and every time I read one I can't help but think "man did they chose the wrong side of the masks AND the wrong characters for this conflict. Chat Noir comes across terribly here". It's weird to see people try and justify his behavior and act like Ladybug was in the wrong.

Was Ladybug being the best friend ever? No, but friendship is secondary when they're wearing the masks. Paris comes first. Chat Noir quitting because he doesn't feel special enough is literally him endangering everyone he loves because his crush isn't paying enough attention to him and I truly can't tell if the show wanted us to feel like he was in the right or the wrong here. In Kuro Neko, Catwalker actually does acknowledge the lesson he needed to learn

There's nothing wrong with you. Maybe the boy who was Cat Noir was more sensitive than it seemed. But his feelings for you shouldn't force you to pay more attention to him than to others. You take care of everybody equally, Ladybug. 

And Chat Noir apologizes at the end of the episode for causing Ladybug trouble, but the whole thing is incredibly lackluster. They don't actually have a meaningful conversation about why he was feeling that way and the rest of the season seems to present Ladybug as being in the wrong, especially the final! Trusting Alya leads to nothing meaningful and not trusting Chat Noir loses her the miraculous. Basically, I still have no idea what season 4 was trying to do with this conflict and it's been dropped forever now that Adrien is fully reduced to nothing more than arm candy.

HOWEVER, this basic setup could have been a fantastic b plot if the "Adrien doesn't feel needed" conflict wasn't a Ladynoir conflict, but was instead a conflict between Adrien and Nino. Move Rocketear up to earlier in the season and have the fallout from that be that Adrien's relationship with Nino is strained. He can still feel leftout because Ladybug has a bigger team now, but instead of him pouting about it and skipping fights, focus on how that need for connection has transferred to his civilian life, but he doesn't have Kagami or Nino now and he's lost. Then you can either have an Adrien and Nino b plot because that relationship needs more screen time OR you use this to make Adrien and Marinette start to grow closer because Rocketear's fallout is also Alya paying more attention to Nino. Then, when season 5 does the whole crush switch, it actually feels earned.

#ml writing salt #ml writing critical #adrien deserves better #marinette deserves better #ml season 4 salt #Can you tell that I'm a little tired of fics that try to blame Ladybug for Chat Noir feeling left out? #It's reasonable for him to have those feelings but boy did they have him express them in a way that was totally unbecoming for a hero #She's a little too busy saving the world and trying to stay sane to worry about his emotions #Especially when he never actually tells her that something's wrong #Though I will absolutely grant you that he needed to know about the Alya situation and keeping him in the dark was BS #I love Alya but that plot was so stupid for so many reasons #It felt like it was just added for cheap drama and not because it was a good addition to the show

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Season 4 of Miraculous Ladybug.

Ephemeral is a terrible episode because it was completely pointless. You could cut the episode out and it changes NOTHING

Kuro neko is the biggest wasted opportunity, because they had built up so much frustration and resentment over the unequal dynamic and then they make a one off episode that doesn’t really change anything.

All of the additional hero episodes feel so forced. They could have split it up more.

Rena Furtive but was so unnecessary that the inclusion just felt like a waste.

The first five episodes of season 4 and it’s last two episodes were the highs of the season. All the other episodes ranged from mid to infuriating

#choosing violence ask game. #miraculous ladybug #ml season 4 #ml critical

[princess-of-the-corner]

So I've read through your ml posts and you seem to dislike the sentimonster theory. Valid, obviously, but I don't know/remember the reason? So I'd like to hear it - if it's because it doesn't make sense, because you don't like the concept, or literally any reason at all. And if it's a reason like logic, what would it take for you to like the concept? Again, it's completely valid if you don't like it at all for no explainable reason, I'm just curious because I'm not opposed to the theory and also I like your writing and what I understand/know about you as a person so I'd like to know why you feel the way you do :D

So! My issues with the Sentimonster Plot have to do with the execution, not the ideas. The ideas I think could have been solid if given proper support!

Let's focus on the downsides first:

The plot holes! There's a lot. Off the top of my head:

Adrien, in the first three seasons, was directly disobeying Gabriel's orders. Him being rebellious was such a big character trait that his introduction in Origins was him disobeying Gabriel's orders! Compare that to Season 4/5, where he does not disobey, where he follows orders. While you could argue that 'oh Gabriel just didn't use the Amok before!', why didn't he when he's clearly comfortable doing so later?

How do Gabriel and Nathalie not know that Chat is a Sentimonster? Though it is later retconned into them only being able to sense the Amok, in 'Feast' Nathalie clearly senses the Sentimonster. (I have gone on a tangent of how she had to have sensed the Sentimonster, not the Amok, because if she sensed the Amok then her knowing that Feast is a Sentimonster is a large leap in logic)

Why didn't Gabriel use Adrien's Amok in either 'Gorizilla' or 'Chat Blanc'? Even if Adrien managed to circumvent those orders through loopholes, that could have been utilized!

Adrien has been hit with Cataclysm before. His reaction was what we see from Humans, not from Sentimonsters.

While Felix being a Sentimonster was mildly foreshadowed, Kagami being a Sentimonster came out of nowhere.

There are other things though!

For one thing, there's the fact that this came with saying that all Sentimonsters are Sapient Beings. Not only does this seem unlikely given how..... not Sapient most act, but it adds in horrifying implications as that jacks up the series' on-screen kill count.

It also wasn't set up well. Not even with the plotholes, but because there was no buildup. Sentimonsters weren't even introduced until the last few minutes of the Season 2 finale! And we didn't start getting hints to Adrien being a Sentimonster until /maybe/ the end of Season 3. I compare this often to other kids' shows with twists like Steven Universe or Gravity Falls, where the twists are foreshadowed as early as the first episode.

Given the fact that we currently don't have any way to truly free a Sentimonster from the Amok's control, I do not like the narrative there. Even if Adrien is given his Amok, there's always that possibility of someone else controlling him. It would be much more satisfying if he's freed from it, whether it be by Maribug saving him or by him going all Ella Enchanted and giving himself the order to not listen to orders. But even that latter one has been proven to not work. Not to mention that, even if he manages to hold on to the Amok, the Peacock User could just dispel him in a snap.

Another thing I have with it is a more biased note rather than a criticism of Canon, but I don't like how casually the Peacock can create Sapient Life. I personally feel that the act of creating Life, even accidentally, should be a difficult process that takes time and energy and even a little danger. This maaaaaay be because I came from FMA:B. So ya know. But I feel that the Peacock casually creating Sapient Beings is too OP, and it should be nerfed by either being unable to do that, or by the Sentimonsters having /potential/ to become real, but not by default.

Now! That said!

I do like the /theoretical/ idea of the Sentimonsters! While I criticized the version in ML, I do love the idea of Sapient Life coming from some non-Sapient source! Whether it be Cloning, AI programming, some sort of Homonculus, or even just going full Velveteen Rabbit, I love that. Bonus points for the 'how do I know I'm real/alive/have emotions/etc' angst! I also do like the idea of Adrien being controlled in some way, but I want him to be able to fully break free.

So ways to fix it:

Foreshadow this earlier. Firstly would be introducing the idea of Sentimonsters at some point very early on. Mention them and let us learn more, so that we could match it to Adrien's behavior. Speaking of! Have Adrien follow Gabriel's orders more! If you want him to still be rebellious, have him be sneaky! Use loopholes and wordplay to let him say '/technically/ I'm doing what I was told!'.

Have Gabriel utilize the Amok in times where he suspects Adrien of being Chat Noir. Adrien could still utilize loopholes here to get out of it! Like Gabriel orders him 'Tell the truth, are you Chat Noir?" and Adrien, using the logic of how he's not Chat Noir right now(aka: not Transformed) says 'nope!'.

Give a reason that Nathalie and Gabriel can't sense Chat being a Sentimonster through the Peacock. Either Canon's retcon of 'only sensing the Amok' or something like 'being Transformed muddles the signal'.

So on and so forth.

Fix it so that Adrien (and Felix and Kagami if you're keeping them all) is unique compared to the other Sentimonsters. Whether it be because he was designed to be Sapient, or because something else was added/done to make him Real, have that. This would free us from the fucked implications of Maribug's killcount.

And then give us the freedom! Again, I'd prefer something Ella Enchanted-esque. But if you have Ladybug's Cure do something or drag in the Eagle Miraculous, it's fine.

[miraculousalt]

The way they ve Lila get outed as liar in the leaks s so disappointing.

Really? They have her SAY IT out loud not knowing everyone can hear her? That's it? That's the ONE thing that'll ruin it bc of how contrived it is

& of course yet another HUGE conflict s solved by nothin more than everyone throwing themselves at Marinettes feet beggin for forgiveness. It's the third major conflict in 2 seasons that gets resolved by everyone havin to learn how wrong they were an that nothin but Marinettes words and point of view matters. Interesting conflicts dont exist anymore its all bout Marinette getting everything no matter what moralities need to be sacrificed for it.

Whats the end goal here? No one getsta have an opinion thats conflicting with Marinette anymore ever again? Bc everyone learned their lesson to never think differently from her again and never ask for somethin either?

#marinette salt #ml season 4 salt #ladybug salt #ladynoir critical #i'm tagging it salt fuck off #ml fandom salt #ml fandom critical #Ml season 5 salt #Ml leaks #Ml salt