#anti team green

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

#rhaenyra targaryen #pro rhaenyra targaryen #anti team green #anti alicent hightower #anti team green stans #pro team black #in defense of rhaenyra targaryen #anti alicent hightower stans #anti criston cole #anti team green fans #anti criston cole stans #anti vaemond velaryon #anti green faction #anti otto hightower #pro laenor velaryon #cersei lannister #anti robert baratheon #laena velaryon #visenya targaryen #in defense of lucerys velaryon #pro lucerys velaryon #lucerys velaryon #pro jacaerys velaryon targaryen #jacaerys velaryon #jacaerys targaryen #in defense of jacaerys velaryon #pro joffrey velaryon #joffrey velaryon #aegon iii targaryen #viserys ii targaryen

[drakaripykiros130ac]

“Ser Otto also reached out to Dorne, whose ruling prince, Qoren Martell, had once warred against Prince Daemon in the Stepstones, but Prince Qoren spurned his offer.”

- Fire & Blood, page 466

Another piece of evidence showing Otto’s political incompetence.

He arranges the usurpation of Rhaenyra Targaryen, the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, and reaches out to Dorne of all places, where there is no such thing as imposed patriarchy, and whose ruler (the Lord of Sunpear), had a daughter as heir.

Qoren Martell’s eldest child is Princess Aliandra Martell, who succeeded him as Lady of Sunspear after his death, even though Qoren also had a son, Qyle.

Hightower has plenty of nerve, I’ll give him that. I don’t know whatever made Otto think that Dorne would ever side with usurpers and oathbreakers.

If they did decide to participate in the Dance, Dorne would have been on the side of the Blacks.

#anti otto hightower #qoren martell #aliandra martell #house martell #rhaenyra targaryen #team black #pro team black #the blacks #the dance of the dragons #canon asoiaf #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #anti team green #fire and blood #a song of ice and fire #house of the dragon #hotd #queen rhaenyra #rhaenyra i

[kissinganakin]

Why are team green stans always the first to talk about how Nyra didn't fight in the books? In the books Alicent was a grown ass women beefing with a child. In the books Criston was with Rhaenyra since she was seven and was such a creep even Alicent pointed it out. In the books Helena is not a dreamer. In the books Aemond is always making weird ass comments about female genitalia. In the books nobody cheered at Aegons coronation and were asking for Nyra. In the books Rhaenys is Rhaenyras number one supporter. The best is "fat Rhaenyra" What about fat Helena and Aegon? Both Helena and Aegon were said to be fuckin ugly but Rhaenyra was said to be beautiful before and after she gained her weight. Anywayssss

#anti alicent hightower #anti aegon ii targaryen #anti team green #pro rhaenyra #pro team black #house of the dragon #queen rhaenyra #rhaenyra targeryan #game of thrones #asoiaf #anti aemond targaryen #team black #i love rhaenyra so much y'all don't get it #anti team green stans #team green #anti criston cole #anti dumb fucking people

[rhaenin-time]

Benevolent misogyny is claiming, "You can't blame Alicent for her primary role in starting a war, because she was commanded and manipulated by her father," while replying to people pointing out that she spent almost 20 years as adult — including 10 entirely without Otto — turning her sons against Rhaenyra, enabling Aegon, and letting Aemond think he was entirely the one done wrong by with, "It's sexist to blame Alicent for Aegon and Aemond's behaviour when they're adults who made their own choices."

Which one is it?

#asoiaf #hotd #fire and blood #hotd critical #team black #asoiaf fandom #anti team green #house of the dragon #hotd sexism

[where-theres-smoak-2]

So this whole 'if rhaenyra insisted on having bastards then she should at least have chosen someone who looked more targaryen/velaryon' argument actually doesn't make much sense when you think more about it. This idea that the problem with rhaenyra having bastards was that they had dark hair, like if they didn't there wouldn't be a problem, it was the dark hair that gave them away and caused suspicion etc. I feel like some in the fandom, and I also think the show can be a bit guilty of this too, assume that the white hair and purple eyes of the targaryens are a dominant trait like the baratheons black hair, but actually it's not. There are several targaryens who don't have the white hair, baelor breakspear targaryen had his dornish mother's dark hair which he in turn passed on to his son valarr, elia martell's daughter with rhaegar targaryen, rhaenys, also had dark hair as did jon snow. Another rhaenys that had dark hair, at least in the book, is the rhaenys from hotd, and I'm sure there are others too. In fact the only reason these 'targaryen' features were common amongst targaryens was because of the inbreeding.

This is where I think hotd messed up with the character design of rhaenys because, as I said above, in the book she has dark hair on account of her mother being a baratheon. If they had kept rhaenys dark hair then whenever anyone questioned jace, luke or joffrey's dark hair, rhaenyra could just shrug and go they get it from their grandmother. Even though they changed how rhaenys looked I do still wish that we had seen rhaenyra play the 'it's their baratheon genes coming through' angle in the show because it's the most logical explanation she could have given.

Another thing that I find kind of amusing about the assumption that the targaryen genes are dominant like the baratheon genes is that the founder of house baratheon, the very first baratheon, was orys baratheon who was actually a targaryen bastard himself, born from the same targaryen father as aegon the conqueror. So dark-haired targaryen bastards have existed since aegon the conqueror came to westeros and baratheon dark hair genes have been cancelling out the white hair of targaryens from the very first time a targaryen and baratheon crossed bloodlines.

So I don't think rhaenyra having dark haired children should be that big of a deal when they have close baratheon relatives and again I really wish the show had played into that more. I think the suspicion should have more been centered around maybe their facial features looked like harwin strong's, they had the same nose or the same mouth shape, but them merely having dark hair should have been a non issue in my opinion. Also where exactly would rhaenyra have found someone with targaryen/velaryon features who she could also trust to keep quiet about it afterwards? Just practically I don't think that makes sense nor would it have been safe for her or her children, so choosing someone who had similar features, ie dark hair, like a baratheon which could be explained away due to her sons having baratheon blood through rhaenys, was the most logical next step.

#hotd #house of the dragon #pro rhaenyra targaryen #rhaenys targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #team black #anti team green

[nrilliree]

Something I absolutely detest in the show was them having Luke give that stupid grin when the pig is placed in front of Aemond. It always came across as super out of character to me considering how timid he’s shown to be throughout the entire show (bar the time he’s being led by Aegon). Jace is constantly protecting him/watching over him, at the funeral he’s literally saying he doesn’t want to be lord of Driftmark because it means everyone else is dead, he only attacks Aemond in the fight whenever everyone else is down, he’s so conscious of his appearance when they’re going around the Redkeep grounds and seems nervous when he sees sparring Aemond against Criston and seems nervous again when he looks at Aemond during the petition + he’s literally holding Rhaenyra’s hand at one point during that. But yeah sure he’d purposefully provoke Aemond.

The best part is that the TGs claim that it was Lucerys who ordered the pig and had it placed on the table in front of Aemond...

For me this moment is also strange, because it does not entirely agree with how Luke was portrayed most of the time, because he was shown as a sensitive boy. Yes, you could somehow put it down to Daemon's upbringing, but it still doesn't really sit well with me. This is just another strange example of victimized TG and showing "look at poor Aemond :(", which is an element of strange fan fiction of the creators.

#house of the dragon #team black #anti team green #pro team black #anti team green stans #anti aemond targaryen #lucerys targaryen

[brynnsasha191]

It will never not make me laugh when green stans say the show is biased to the blacks. The show is biased AGAINST the blacks. Alicent isn't a child bride in the book, they stole that plot line from Aemma. It's very unlikely Jace was a bastard in the book. Daemon didn't kill his wife in the books, that was a show runners 'interpretation'. Jace, Baela, Rhaena, and Luke were all promised as toddlers, it wasn't some last ditch effort, making it so in the show made Rhaenyra look stupid. Aegon may not have been a full blown r@pist in the book but he often fondled unwilling servants. It's implied that Alicent slept with Viserys BEFORE Aemma was dead. Alicent was married to a 28 year old at 19, and had Aegon at 20. Rhaenyra was 17 when she was forced into a marriage and carried Jace. She was a child, pregnant with another child, managing all of dragon stone, and dealing with a lot of people calling her a whore based on rumors Alicent started. Rhaenyra was 7 when Crispy Cole named her the most beautiful woman in Westeros. Rhaenyra was 14 when she 'seduced' a 38 year old Cole, A 38 YEAR OLD SHOULDN'T ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE SEDUCED BY A 14 YEAR OLD. Alicent was 9 years older than Rhaenyra in the book, and 3 years older when she had her first child. And Rhaenyra was still a much better mom, Aegon lll adored her. I'm sick of Alicent stans saying she was manipulated by Otto, I'll accept that argument for episode 1-5 Alicent, but 6-10 Alicent is an adult who could make her own choices. And she chose to destroy Rhaenyra's life. The way the show handled Luke's death also pisses me off, it was on purpose in the book. I haven't read the book in a while so if I was wrong about anything please tell me.

The show is horrible to the blacks, and I'm sick of green stans playing the victim. Before the show came out there wasn't even a team green and team black. Everyone knew the greens were horrible

Edit: Thank you, @watcherintheweyr for the comments. I totally agree with everything you said. So I changed it up a little

#hotd #anti team green #anti alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #alicent hightower

[simplynotcapable]

everyone is making a big deal about the TG actors making fun of luke’s death and i need you guys to just sit down and take a breath.

he’s a fake little dude on a cgi dragon who got fake eaten by another fake guy’s cgi dragon. dragons don’t exist. it all happens in a fake place.

no one REALLY died, joking about it does not make them morally corrupt. please take this less seriously

#anti team green #team green #anti team black #team black #hotd #hotd season 2 #house of the dragon

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

And if you kick every Rhaenicent out of HOTD fandom who’s gonna call Rhaenyra a “spoiled irresponsible slut” ?

Any TG member.

#house of the dragon #hotd #anti team green #team black #pro team black #rhaenyra targaryen #pro rhaenyra targaryen

[dragonpotter]

team green obsession with rhaenyra's sons being bastards is really something. we as an audience know that they're not laenor's biological sons because we have heard her talking about it privately with laenor and daemon. however, the only characters who know for sure that they are bastards are rhaenyra, laenor, daemon and harwin strong. everyone else can especulate, but no one can PROVE it.

laenor has claimed the boys as his own. he says so after naming joffrey, when rhaenyra scolds him for naming her son, he says it's THEIR son. when they are talking in driftmark, he refers to them as their boys. he has claimed them as his. the king has claimed they are legitimate. that's all there is. anything else is treason.

"oh but they are bastards!" yes, but there is no way in westeros to prove it. if the king says they are not bastards, they are not. end of story. anything else is treason. i don't know why that's so hard to grasp.

also, when otto comes to dragon stone to ask rhaenyra to bend the knee to aegon, he says that both jace and luke are legitimate. so even aegon, the tg king, legally claims they are not bastards.

something that bothers me though about rhaenyra and laenor when it comes to their three sons is that they could have done more to help their own claims. laenor is rarely ever there to defend them, to claim them as their own to silence the rumours. and i wanted rhaenyra to sound a little less guilty about it, too. everytime the legitimacy of her sons is brought up she acts guilty and powerless, and i know that's probably because she feels ashamed, but if she just scoffed and acted as though the claims were ridiculous it would have made things a little lighter on them. because, again, there is NO PROOF that they aren't laenor's sons other than their hair and skin color and if she had just use that to ridicule the rumors maybe things would have been better for them.

#anti team green #team black #house of the dragon

[redrosesandcharmingsouls]

One of the many evils that team discourse has done (including bullying/cyberbullying) is the way people care more about team superiority rather they discussing characters complexity .Alright baby I guess you team was right and never committed war crimes now can we talk about x character relationship with gender?.

#hotd #house of the dragon #anti team green #anti team black #team green

[daenerysies]

#house of the dragon #baela targaryen #baela the brave #team black #*they* are speaking about her again -_- #keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth #‘sunfyre would never fly again.’ ATE #anti team green

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Let’s face it, when GRRM wrote the ending of the Dance, he put a pause on the whole Aegon and Jaehaera union, and realized that something was not right here.

Sure, it’s an “arranged marriage for peace” trope like the one from The Wars of the Roses…but kind of unnecessary (since the Blacks won), and also kind of disappointing because it sends the following message: “Usurpers and traitors should be rewarded.”

Otto and Alicent Hightower wanted their bloodline on the Iron Throne. They schemed, seduced and then started a whole war for it. Making Jaehaera queen (and have her potentially give birth to Aegon’s children) would give these two opportunists a win.

And then he thought about Aegon III, a broken child, forced in wedlock with the girl of the mad usurper who murdered his mother right in front of him.

And then, GRRM asked himself, who would deserve the honor of being Aegon III’s Queen and mother his children?

1. A girl from House Velaryon, a House who has always been on the side of the Blacks (even after Rhaenyra’s death), and fought for the true heir to the throne honorably and faithfully?

or

2. The last girl from the defeated enemy party, who had Hightower blood coursing through her veins?

The answer is pretty clear. And as such, thinking about granting Aegon III happiness, GRRM created Daenaera Velaryon, the always smiling little queen, who contributed to healing the boy’s broken heart.

This is why Daenaera Velaryon is Aegon III’s true wife and Queen in canon and why her presence in his life is essential.

#aegon iii targaryen #aegon iii x daenaera #team black #pro team black #anti team green #queen rhaenyra #asoiaf #queen daenaera #daenaera velaryon #house targaryen #house velaryon #the blacks #rhaenyra targaryen #the dance of the dragons #anti house hightower #anti alicent hightower #anti otto hightower #asoiaf meta #fire and blood

[kissinganakin]

If the kings word isn't law, then why is it that the Greens only usurp Rhaenyra after Viserys is dead.

Greens:

#anti aegon ii targaryen #anti alicent hightower #anti team green #house of the dragon #pro rhaenyra #pro team black #team green #team black #anti otto hightower #anti criston cole #anti dumb fucking people #hotd #asoiaf

[rhaenin-time]

I really don't get how people can go, "Wow, Fire and Blood really sexualizes Targaryen women. That of course means that Targaryens sexualize their poor women."

Something something... then something about how Targaryens are evil for sexualizing their women, something, an actual thought about how Targaryen women have been mistreated as their family assimilated into a patriarchal system, something, something about how some of those women (the bad ones) are whores for coming from an evil house that sexualizes and mistreats its women.

#asoiaf #hotd #hotd critical #fire and blood #team black #asoiaf fandom #house of the dragon #anti team green #hotd sexism #rhaenyra targaryen

[kataraavatara]

“the lords of westeros would never accept rhaenyra’s BASTARDS as rulers” the lords of westeros were having a wwe smackdown over who got to marry their children to them. borros b tried to peer pressure luke into breaking his lifelong betrothal and then cregan came in with the pact of ice and fire steel chair

#not even mentioning the Manderlys #who also wanted a piece of the pie…get it manderlys and pies #cregan definitely did that because he was in love with Jace though #like how do you even know Jace is going to HAVE a daughter #you don’t #you’re just a boy kisser #anti team green #rhaenyra targaryen #asoiaf #fire and blood #cregan stark #jacaerys targaryen #lucerys velaryon