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thebottomfromhell · 10 months

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hello!! I enjoy your stuff!! I was wondering if request are open could you headcanons of the upper moons having a goth s/o ?

like imagine their partner having platforms, chokers, black lipstick, the dark clothing and tattoos uwu

I would really love to see how they would react to them 🫰

Requests open, don't worry. It's a lovely ask, I hope you like it. I am writting considering the context, most are demons in the XX century that have lived at least 100 years, all of them from JAPAN. If it wasn't because most of this guys are freaks, none of them would approve.

How does the Uppermoons feel about your asthetic? Goth GN Reader.

Warnings: Kokushibou being a grampa 😂, Referenced sexual content, Sekido being emotional again, and Akaza has his implied angst (why almost everything in him has at least some hidden angst?).

Gyutaro:

Gyutaro loves your asthetic, it's almost the opposite of the traditional japanese beauty standards and he's all for it. He thinks it suits you a lot and he is not bothered when you want to show off a inked skin or too much skin. (He specially loves tattoos, thinks it's genial that marks on the body can be artistic, he is always nervious to touch them but you can see he wants to).

If you want to share a t-shirt, lend him some jewelry, put a choker in his neck, paint his nails or make him a fake tattoo (his regeneration would ruin a real one), then he is reasy for you to dress him up. (Even the lipstick, he is all for messy kisses and the more the merrier) With you as a partner he would start to incorporate some of this things to his everyday style (and Daki would loath you for it.)

Gyokko:

Gyokko is conflicted, he likes the gothic style, adores it even. The themes, the dark colors, the uniqueness, it's a great asthetic. But it's not his asthetic. He likes colors, soft patterns, brightness. And of course Gyokko can't have it if it's not about himself, not that he minds. "Some things must be loved from afar. It's like art, you are not supposed to interact or be part of it if you are not the artist. You are just supposed to appreciate it."

He fully supports the way you look, the way you dress, and he might try to wear dark make up every once in a while with you doing it as a bonding experience, if you have something really nice then jewelry is a must, specially the choker (he feels sexy with it)... but besides that, he would barely touch it. Also, you better keep your mouth away with that lipstick.

Hantengu:

It suits you, he doesn't have any strong opinion about it besides that. If that is what you want to wear, please do. But he got to admit there are things he is rather intimidated by in your style, the dark colors everywhere and memento mori themes are one of those.

He would not let you near with any of your things, not even the nail painting. Still, he would be plainty supportive of you expressing yourself. He is ok with the lipstick, though, it causes no harm.

Sekido:

Sekido is ok with it, it's the way you express yourself and dress is none of his business. He doesn't really like it but still thinks it's much better than dressing like Karaku or Urogi. He doesn't mind anything you do tl yourself as long as you like it.

And if you ever think of lending him something... don't, at best he will not use it, at worst he will give it to Urogi or Karaku and you will never see that piece of clothing/jewelry again. And try to put any make up on him he will literally have you shocked untill you pass out. Also, please clean the lipstick off if you want a kiss, he doesn't like them that messy.

Karaku:

Karaku thinks it's beautiful and sexy, he loves it a lot and is unafraid to say it. The second he saw you he said "Damn, you're looking good, hot-stuff. Suits you so much I'm almost envy it." He falls in love with you again evertime you expose a tattoo (he will trail the drawing with his index as he whispers how much he loves it in yoour skin by your ear) or wear tight and black clothes.

Don't mind him matching your style every once in a while, when he gets the mood to fix himself. But now that you gave him the idea he is forever using a choker, best thing ever. Also, he loves the black lipstick, he is enamored with kissing you with both having some and creating a mess, also he likes it since is extremely visible in his unlike bitemarks (they heal), so he is all for you kissing anywhere you like with it.

Urogi:

Urogi adores it, he thinks it's unique. Really, he gets all over you and asks you things like "What is that?" "How did you get it?" "Is it uncomfortable?" He also comments how it looks good in you. This includes the tattos, he loves then, even licks them at times lnly to see if it rubs off and is always amazed when it doesn't, even if he ever licked that same spot a million times.

After a while you realize he started to steal your stuff, specially the jewelry. He doesn't even wears them, he just likes them a lot so he keeps them. You can't get him to wear anything at all, he will run away at the sight of you wanting to dress him up (like a dog realizing it's bath-day, maybe he does think you will force him into a shower cuz he stinks a bit and you would not want to wear a shirt that he just used).

Aizetsu:

Aizetsu likes it, he thinks you look nice in it, you look like yourself. Dark clothes fit anyone, he thinks, and damn him if he isn't attracted to the themes, specially the memento mori. The thing he loves the most are the tattoos, the fact that they are part of you. He asks about their meaning, of why did you choose certain design, of the experience, he uses them as a way to know you.

Now, he wouldn't actually wear that. While he also likes dark clothes, he uses only things that are comfortable for his skin and to do the katas with his spear. But... a little bullying and he will be willing to match with you for a while. Oh, and he looks adorable after a messy kiss with the lipstick. He loves it and hates it at the same time, since it's awful but he likes that you can leave a mark that won't heal so he doesm't want to clean it off.

Nakime:

Nakime is in love with your style, she doesn't understand it as much as she feels she should, since he also wears black. She likes the themes, adores the tattoos (even if she would die before letting a needle basically embroider ink into her skin), dies for the make up and jewelry, also the fact she literally fell in love with you when she saw you like that... she still hasn't managed to integrate herself fully into it. She adores it, yearns it, but it's not hers.

Still, Nakime does like when you lend her something, and she would use them from time to time as long as you guide her through the style. And she likes a lot to kiss if you are both wearing lipstick, even if she doesn't like to deal with the mess it leaves in the skin.

Akaza:

Akaza doesn't share the taste, but he is very supportive. He likes to see you dress up the way it makes you comfortable and happy, and he is not above gifting you a gothic piece of jewelry or cloth if that will make you happy. His biggest issue are the tattoos, for some reason they make him feel on edge (you are used to him being paranoid of you being hurt, but fearing it out of a tattoo?)

He would not wear none of those, never. Akaza loves you, but he is not comfortable with the idea of so much black in him. It's actually funny because he wears white and pink, so you give the Jade (you) and Kat (him) vibe from Victorious at first glance. Also, he is not going to stop you from kissing hin if you wear lipstick, but he is cleaning his mouth the second your lips leave his.

Douma:

Douma literally doesn't care. You could both dress in the most expensive suit or a trash bag and the same reaction. "You look lovely in that!" But he says it mostly because it's the correct thing to say, since he doesn't have feelings on the matter. The only think he is curious about are the tattoos, but once he made some questions like "Did it hurt?" "Why this drawing?" "What if one day you don't like it anymore?" He starts losing interest.

He also doesn't care lf you put anything on him, you could give him a tattoo if you ever wanted. He doesn't care if the kisses might get messy with the lipstick or even if you want to put make up in him, at best he will think having his face "painted" is funny and at worst he will clean it off. Douma just doesn't care.

Kokushibou:

Kokushibou hates it, if he wasn't a demon he would have died from a heart attack everytime he saw you using a choker with black lipstick, visible tattoos, clothes too tight in your skin and/or too revealing (he thinks too revealing is showing your shoulders, thighs, any tiny bit of chest, waist, back and so) and way too many accesories for his liking. And don't get him starting with the memento mori themes (he's terrified by it).

This is a japanese traditional man, and what your style is almost the exact opposite of it. Still, he barely comments on it, he's a very quiet man, and he's so horrified he doesn't know how to approach because... you really like to be like that??? [Go to sleep gramps 😂] If you ever put anything gothic on him, no matter what, even if it's just the figure of your lips with the black lipstick, forget the canon timeline, he will die then and there. [Poor grampa, your youth is too much for him 🤣]

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netherworldpost · 3 years

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I'm new here and very intrigued, if a little confused. Do you have a correspondence service where you mail people, say, newsletters of what's happening in your fictional world (in the theme of school newsletters from Halloween Town High or like a community newsletter from a made up town) and/or personalized letters? Give me the whole spiel!

The shortest answer

If you read @evilsupplyco -- thats me! I'm rebranding for a pile of nebulous reasons, all soft, mostly organizing my brain + plans etc.

The shorter answer

Imagine you are a queer witch, monster, ghost, or mermaid and you are in paradise with your friends (some of whom are idiots) and life is great.

The short answer

Fairy tales for grownups with a heavy emphasis on monsters falling in love ("a vampire kisses her wife, a witch, good morning") and slice of life stories ("a mermaid goes to the undersea grocery store")

With a lot of Halloween celebrations.

So many jack-o-lanterns.

There is a witch with a jack-o-lantern familiar and they adore each other but are polar opposites, as she is a being of chaotic energy and joy and hugs and laughter and living in the moment, and the familiar is stuffy and rigid and snobby and just cannot understand why everything she does/wears is so gaudy, has she no taste?

The full answer

The Netherworld is an infinite dimension full of monsters, ghosts, witches, and mermaids. There are no humans and there are no portals to Earth (or really other dimensions, given its infinite-ness, everything is well covered).

It is a paradisiacal setting -- there are no wars or conflict, there are plenty of resources for everyone and everything. This is a direct reaction to (gestures to the real world) + my bitter hatred of "conflict is necessary for storytelling" advice that got shoved down my throat for years many decades ago.

This is a general chunk of writing advice thrown about a lot because who ever reads journals or personal accounts of their day? (stares in social media)

The Netherworld adventures and styling are typical fantastical medieval Europe (castles, dungeons), with comparable technology to modern Earth with a slightly retro bent -- video stores renting VHS tapes and photo booths are barely a thing anymore in real life but I've stories coming involving both, for example.

Dungeons & Dragons meets a cheesy 80s movie. Or maybe an 80s sword and sandal movie but there is a mix of the behind-the-scenes and the movie scenery.

The stories are very short and soft and gentle. About the length of a long Tumblr post, to give context, with illustrations sprinkled in for good measure because I love drawing more than writing, but I'm a storyteller before I'm a writer or illustrator, so they both have to exist.

When i say above "here is a story about a mermaid going to the grocery store," I literally mean just that.

She wakes up, casts a spell to encase her tail in a bubble of water, writes out a shopping list, picks an outfit, kisses her sleeping wife, a dryad, on the cheek, heads out to the store, picks cereal and veggies and candy and a pop culture magazine to read later, and then comes home.

The delivery and how this differs from Evil Supply Co.:

Evil Supply Co. was a bit random and unfocused. I was making tons of stuff in a handful of genres and never really focused.

Netherworld Post is extremely focused on the stories above + physical (real world) mail. There will be faux postage stamps and postcards showing the in-universe stories.

The Peyroux Dispatch is the in-universe newspaper, and with Evil, I actually printed newspapers (21 issues!).

There were stories and rambles and illustrations and in-universe ads for slime soaps and swamp soups and monster language learning classes.

As a quick aside if anyone wants a copy of this, just ping me your email address in a message and I'll send. I have all the issues in a single file formatted for at-home printing for personal enjoyment.

When I relaunch the company (May 2022), the Dispatch is coming back. I'm redesigning it to be shorter (making it more manageable) and to have more art (which slightly dampens the "more manageable" but also increases the fun factor significantly).

Okay back to the point

The Dispatch will return as a physical newspaper. Smaller, in color. Stories rambles comics in-universe ads.

I'm snagging a real world PO box as part of a nakedly open marketing attempt to get people to send more mail (I enjoy my years-long hyper-fixation on the United States postal service), with the side benefit that of enjoying myself tremendously returning letters and cards in the voice of my characters.

If it helps move a few more stickers or postcards, grand, but really the goal is to make the world a brighter and weirder place.

Email list

I like email lists because social media algorithms ruin things. There will be a physical mailing list, as well, when the site gets closer to launch.

If you'd like to hear about the rambles as it comes together: https://www.netherworldpost.com/

Thank you!

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chaolie · 3 years

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Funtober Day 6 - Ghostdy AU

POV. You're Quackity and this is the second time you come up to someone you worked with during the Manburg era to talk to them about your new country and they're a ghost. Except this guy was supposed to be alive???

On a serious note, this prompt for @fundyfiles' Funtober really made me think, so some context/explanations under the cut!

Okay so, first of all. They match now!! Isn't that great? I'm sure Yogurt was happy when he saw that!

So, in this AU, Fundy dies after blowing up his tower and moving to the little cottage in the forest. There are many ways he could've died, but he doesn't remember how it happened. Who knows, maybe he died in his sleep? Maybe he stayed up for so long his exhaustion got the better of him and he died to a simple zombie outside, or even lost his balance and drowned in the pond by his house? Or maybe his lack of sleep was so severe that somehow something broke and a small group of phantoms appeared and took his life?

Just like Ghostbur's memory was lacking, missing all the sad memories, Ghostdy too doesn't remember everything. Rather than forgetting the sad things, though, he forgets basically all of the times he was overstressed and alike. He can recall his childhood pretty clearly, but after that, most of his memories are a blur, and the most recent events are basically blank in his mind.

Luckily, he barely ever felt stressed when Yogurt was involved (save for the time his little boy got lost in the forest for a while, but it's not like he'd remember that), so he remembers almost every second he spent with his son, and he's not going to let his ghost-ness get in the way of being a great dad! And since taking care of Yogurt is the only thing he recalls doing anytime recently, he does just that all the time.

He leaves a lot of Orange around, and he always gladly offers it to others if they're around. He tells them to throw it away soon, and once they do that, they suddenly feel relieved from all the stress that's been weighing over them for who-knows-how-long. It's always nice to receive some Orange as a gift!

Luckily for himself, Ghostdy doesn't need sleep and hardly ever gets tired. If he does, all it takes for him to recover is sitting somewhere nice and relaxing for a bit, no need for a bad to use! He did consider falling asleep a couple of times, but each time he got close to that, he was overcome with an uneasy feeling, and suddenly, there was much more Orange in his hands than usual. He didn't try sleeping after that happened.

Yogurt probably knows the most out of anyone. He has Fundy's hat, after all, and he had to get it somewhere... he doesn't even try to tell Ghostdy what happened, though. He probably doesn't want to remember it either, so there's no reason to bring it up, ever.

On a much happier note, with Ghostdy clearly recalling his childhood, he's possibly even better at taking care of a kid himself! He remembers all the funniest games and coolest things to do! Yogurt is living his best life in that little cottage for sure :]

Also about the drawing itself!! I'm super happy that I got to use my current favorite brush for line art for once! I usually use the pen one because it's ~smooth~ but I absolutely love one called Fluffly Pastel! I usually use it for backgrounds and such but I figured, it would look fine for Ghostdy too, so I went for it!! And speaking of backgrounds, I'm very happy with this one, too! :D

#funtober2021 #fundy #c!fundy #yogurt #yogurt dy #yogurt dsmp #my art #dream smp #ghostdy au #and yes i am tagging it that in case I ever decide to write something for it and want to find the art #Which i probably will ngl it makes me think a lot in a positive way

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thefloatingstone · 3 years

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I, for one, would be perfectly happy seeing artwork of cute anime Vtuber shit. I have zero context, have never watched a Vtuber in my life, and so I'm obviously intrigued enough to enjoy the artwork. (And the animation of Nyanners(?) was... amazing. XD) And besides, art is always better when it's something you enjoy doing. Draw what you want.

Thank you so very much ;w; I know they barely get any notes here on tumblr for me, but honestly sometimes I just want to draw cute anime girls and VTubers sometimes have incredible character designs. (Also I tend to watch Vtubers who look UwU but in reality are the most chaotic balls of insanity you've ever seen)

Honestly I REALLY want to do an Undertale animation next but I have a snag;

the easiest thing to "find" to animate is using voice clips, and voice clips from Youtubers is great because A: the sound is copyright free and B: Youtubers like art of themselves so you're not pissing anyone off either.

I want to make some Undertale animation but the game itself obviously doesn't have any voice clips so I'd have to try and think of an "action only" thing to animate (which means I have to do planning and sometimes I just want to jump to animating without planning because the animating is my favourite)

And I know people will use voice snippets from other things and animate Undertale characters to it, but I have a weird thing about giving the the canon UT characters (and a few of the AU characters) voices. It's probably the same reason with anime I watch subs over dubs.

Maybe I should try and see if I can use some audio from BHC or something. I like Nox's voice actor a lot. That might be something 🤔

But yeah. I also want to tap into that gremlin VTuber energy as well because holy shit is so much of it comedy GOLD.

#C-Puff answers

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freedom-of-fanfic · 6 years

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I'm kind of torn on the Mary Sue issue. On one hand, I don't care what anyone writes for their own amusement, but writing is still an art that does and should have standards for professionals. As someone who has degrees in writing and does it as a profession, it's a little insulting to be told that the work your poured tons of research and time into is on the same level as amateur self-insert fic. That's why I advocate for different standards for fandom vs pro work.

I feel you, anon. and I have a lot of respect for people like you who got degrees and write professionally, because words are held rather cheap with the internet being around and anyone who can get paid to write words impresses me to some degree. but:

I’ve always felt like comparing fanfic and original fiction to be not exactly congruous? and

I think Mary Sue suffers from maligning because she’s disproportionately evoked by the youngest/least experienced of writers.

this got … pretty long … so i’m dividing it up a little for ease.

the concept of ‘standards’

first of all, I also advocate for different standards between published/professional/marketed works and fan works, but I do so because of 1)potential spread and 2)they aren’t accomplishing the same thing.

In general, a fanwork will have limited appeal outside of the fans of the canon the work is based in; they cannot stand on their own without some additional effort. Further, fandom has its own language to some degree or another, and fanworks are frequently best understood in the context of other fanworks, like scientific papers citing other scientific papers in passing because the audience is expected to be other scientists in the field who have read it. In other words: the audience is probably fairly niche and in on the ‘lingo’. its potential damage circle is therefore relatively small. if somebody fucks up their research for a fic, it’s nbd, for instance.

On the other hand, an original work with a professional marketing team will certainly reach a much more diverse audience and probably a much larger one. It’s therefore responsible, imo, to be proportionately aware of the potential impact of the subject material and approach it accordingly (though true fiction will always have an unpredictable effect on any given individual, so there’s only so much the creator can do). I’d expect accuracy where research was done, if for no other reason than to avoid spreading false information to such a big potential audience.

and of course I’d hope that if somebody is being paid to write, their grammar/prose/proofreading will meet a certain standard of readability. (the same cannot be expected of free works done for fun that take a few minutes to post on the internet.)

having said that: standards for quality fiction writing will always be subjective. I’m always going to have questions about why The Sound and the Fury is an American classic (I couldn’t make sense of it no matter how hard I tried). What gets published can be as simple as having good luck with the slush pile reader that day. I’ve seen fanfiction complimented with incredible research: there’s a Tokyo Babylon work-in-progress with an author who has traveled to fic-relevant locales to nail story and character details. I feel the line is blurring these days, especially because there are people who make a living off writing commissioned fanfiction now (too small-scale to be an IP concern, of course).

I think the fundamental difference between fanworks and original works is not quality of the work itself or effort expended. It’s related to structure and aim.

Fanworks, even AU fanworks, are like interior decoration. A 'good fanwork’, even an AU fanwork, works within a pre-built framework to elaborate on or add to or evoke what drew its audience to the framework in the first place.

Original works build a whole new house, creating a new framework from bare construction materials to draw in and house the emotions of its readers. (and then maybe its readers decorate the house with their own fanfic.)

tl;dr: if an AU fanfic was so different from canon and the characters were so OOC that the author can shave the serial numbers off and repurpose it as an original story, it might be a great original work. But it wasn’t a very good fanfic, was it?

why is mary sue so offensive to us?

I don’t know if you’ve ever read the post Mary Sue, What Are You?, but what I keep coming back to is its iconic opening. the author describes an OC at length: orphaned as a child when her parents were killed in front of her, she decided she would dedicate her life to fighting for justice. She grew up to be rich, athletic, beautiful, sexy, angsty, a genius, undefeatable in a battle of wits and agility, and everyone who meets her is instantly lovestruck. In other words, a classic Mary Sue …

but also Batman with female pronouns.

I think one could argue that Batman is not always well-written, but the relevant point here is that Batman - and Mary Sue - might be 99.9% perfection in the shape of a human around whom the universe revolves, but if its their own canon and the universe doesn’t recognize their perfection the way the reader/writer does, it’s not really 'bad’. (And there’s something to be said about why giving this power fantasy male pronouns seems to render it so much more palatable than female pronouns, but for more on that I point you to the referenced essay.)

Your ask is worded to suggest that Mary Sue is synonymous with unprofessional writing. I … kind of agree? Mary Sue is frequently the main character of Baby’s First Fanfic, and let’s be real: Baby’s First Fanfic is often being written by somebody who might be as young (or younger than) 12-13 years old, with all the inexperience, grammar mistakes, and lack of training that suggests. and as far as characterization goes, I think that anyone who takes decent writing classes will be discouraged from writing a Mary Sue. But like Batman, Mary Sue can be a perfect princess and get away with it under certain circumstances.

I posit that Mary Sue characters (or Gary Stus) - whom I will call Flawless OCs from here - are not really a problem on their own. Further, Flawless OC is more agregious in fanfic than original works. Because what makes the Flawless OC so irritating isn’t their perfection, really: it’s what the character’s presence must do to the universe (which is, in the case of fanfic, the universe the reader came to experience in the first place) that’s the real problem.

To show what a good fighter Flawless OC is, they defeat the best canon fighter.

Flawless OC has a backstory more tragic and painful than the most tragic canon backstory, and they cope with the trauma of it better.

There’s no room for Flawless OC because canon wasn’t holding a spot open for a self-insert, so now there’s a 6th Lion or a 10th Fellowship member or a Second Child Who Survived Voldemort.

The entire universe bends to ensure Flawless OC has perfect luck; their enemies are helpless before them. Everything seems to go their way except in the chapter where the their love interest is supposed to rescue them from danger. (the rescue goes flawlessly, of course.)

Depending on the author wish that Flawless OC is meant to fulfill, Flawless OC will defeat any undefeatable enemy, solve the unsolveable problem, be the envy or lust object of any character, etc etc, often without regard for the original context of the enemy/problem or the canon personality of the character.

In short, Flawless OC usually have two major issues:

they render canon irrelevant to glorify Flawless OC, and

the universe constantly validates their choices to a degree that wrecks narrative suspense.

what makes each of these things 'bad writing’ is different.

The first problem I mentioned - warping of mythos, plot, and characters to accomodate the Flawless OC - is a fanfic problem. Canon-warping absolutely allowed, but what makes it fanfic - the canon source that acts as our shared experience and usually our main reason for being a potential audience to the fic - is almost always nigh-unrecognizable. That makes for bad fanfiction, but it doesn’t always make for bad fiction. Change all the parts of canon enough and you’ve arguably got an original work. It might even be a good original work if the author has writing skill.

The second problem - the validation of the universe - is what makes Flawless OC a dull read in any context. If Flawless OC wants something, you know they’ll get it. If Flawless OC hates someone, you know they’re going to catch hell. If Flawless OC needs to be vulnerable for their love interest, something just bad enough to make them vulnerable will befall them. The perfection of the OC is less of an issue than the lack of meaningful conflict. (A character can have no faults and still be interesting to follow if they must struggle against a universe that doesn’t care.)

to wit:

there’s a fantasy book by David and Leigh Eddings - The Redemption of Althalus - that I read long ago. it stuck with me to a peculiar degree because for a book with such a unique conceit, it was incredibly boring. This is published fiction: it had editors, a marketing team, and was written by professionals with lots of experience! But looking back, none of this saved the story from featuring Gary Stu in a universe that catered to his every need.

The main character, Althalus, is ostensibly a person in need of redemption for being such a bad person all his life and never punished for it, but he’s a loveable, quick-witted rogue almost from the start. To 'redeem’ himself, he’s tasked with saving the world from Enemies (we’re told they’re evil, but I don’t think we see them more than once or twice). Protected by the Goddess of Luck - literally - for the entire novel, there’s never a single moment where Althalus’ victory over the Enemy is in question. He never does anything really awful that would explain his need to be redeemed (in fact, it turns out the Luck Goddess is the one who protected him from punishment all his life). The enemy is weak, forgettable, and constantly outwitted, and the protagonists, supposedly people of gray morality, never did anything worse than be snarky.

The unique conceit that kept me reading was the House at the End of the World. Being the home of the Goddess, it had doors that opened to anywhere on the planet. but for an idea with such double-edged possibilities, it turned out to be an impregnable fortress of Good. The House and its owner were the forces that bent the whole book’s universe to the inevitable triumph of the main character and his companions.

A counter-example might be Miraculous Ladybug. I’ve often wondered if Mary Sue could be written well and be likeable, and Marinette - the titular Ladybug - is probably close. She’s good at almost everything and always outwits her enemies; even when she seems confident to the point of arrogance, it’s justified by her endless successes. (Her only real flaw is being clumsy when she’s distracted, and it only happens when it’s conveniently cute. this is a walking Mary Sue cliche.) Her power is to be lucky, after all.

However: even though everything ends up right for Marinette at the end of every episode, she’s not rewarded when she acts poorly towards others. She causes herself problems when she does. Her luck powers give her the ability to bend the universe a little, but the universe is otherwise unforgiving; she’s subjected to the same banalities as everyone else and learns to be a better person along the way.

OTOH if you put Ladybug in another canon with a makeover to recast her as Flawless OC, changing everything so she could occupy a central role like the one she has in her own series, she’d be insufferable: hence Ladybug is a solid example of how a Mary Sue can prosper provided she’s in a universe designed to both feature her and contain her powers for the sake of Good.

I apologize for how long a reply this is. Still: I hope it successfully illustrates for you that:

though original writing and fanfic writing use the same tool (words), and both can use them masterfully, what original writers like you do and what fic writers do are, in general, very different things.

And Mary Sue is what you make of her. In the right universe, she’s just a very lucky person. :)

#in defense of mary sue #in defense of fanfic #origific vs fanfic #fandom meta #miraculous ladybug #david eddings #i think i read that book because I liked some other book of his #but wow it was a dull read #I kept waiting for everything to fall apart #but it didn't #anywho #long post #y ik es #Anonymous

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centaurianthropology · 6 years

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I am not particularly well-versed in meta-analysis so I'm curious what someone better versed in the art (aka you) would have to say about the relevance of Percy Bysshe Shelley's Ozymandias (to which I'm assuming the ep title was a reference) to the episode, the story as a whole, and potentially also specifically the Unknowing?

First off, don’t sell yourself short! Meta is seriouslyjust the art of blathering your own opinion about something with some semblanceof structure and using the facts at hand as evidence. That’s why it’s sofun to meta with other people. My own meta is always just my opinionbacked with whatever knowledge on the subject I happen to have. Hearing the metas from other people enrichesmy opinion and let me test my own theories against others.

Second, I should probablywarn you that it’s been a healthy while since I did any sort of poetryanalysis, and never considered myself particularly versed in it (no punintended). So for this meta, we’re going to only be using the words ofthe poem, and the context of the Library of Alexandria, which I believe is what’sbeing obliquely referenced with that particular quote. And given that we’re drawing ever closer tothe Unknowing, I feel like that’s a particularly apt little bit of poetry todraw from. I’m also going to dig alittle into the history of the Library of Alexandria for this one. Again, this isn’t my area. I took a few classes on Egyptology during myMaster’s work, and that’s been more than a decade ago. And even then, we didn’t get far into theGreco-Roman rule of Egypt, which is in large part where the history of thelibrary comes from. So I’ll be using myold friend Wikipedia here. If someoneelse out there happens to have made a proper study of the library and wouldlike to add things or correct some of my misapprehensions, please do!

So, yeah. Preliminariesdone. Let’s meta. And history.

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from anantique landWho said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stoneStand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand,Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,Tell that its sculptor well those passions readWhich yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:And on the pedestal these words appear:‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'Nothing beside remains. Round the decayOf that colossal wreck, boundless and bareThe lone and level sands stretch far away.”

I think a huge part of the underpinnings of the storyof ‘The Magnus Archives’ is change. The Unknowing is apparently adance that doesn’t end the world, but changes it irrevocably into somethingthat better resembles the Stranger. Something even more bizarre anduncanny than the world is currently.

It’s my theory, since hearingthis, that the world as it currently is, is held in balance. None of theGreat Old Ones have managed to get a firm enough foothold to fully transformthe world. But there have been moments when something like the Unknowinghave likely succeeded, but those successes were temporary. Let meexplain.

A little bit of historicalcontext, likely tweaked in the TMA universe, regarding the Library ofAlexandria. The Library was considered to be one of the great centers oflearning in the western world from around the 3rd century BCE until itsdestruction. It was believed to house somewhere between 40,000 and400,000 papyrus scrolls at its height.

The exact date of itsdestruction is unknown, though some believe that Julius Caesar’s army burned itas early as 48 BCE, though it might have been as late as the 270s CE. Quite a few of the works there survived at a smaller site called the Serapeum,a large temple built during the Greek rule of Egypt. The Serapeum itselfis thought to have been destroyed on the orders of Pope Theophilius ofAlexandria, during his purge of all non-Christian places of worship, around 390CE. A library to rival Alexandria’s likely did not exist again in thatarea until the House of Wisdom in Baghdad built its library in the 9th centuryCE (many historical books from before that period would have been entirely lostwere it not for the Arabic translations reconstructed there).

I want to lay this out toshow that there was no singular destruction of the library. All the dates are contested, and all theevents surrounded its eventual burning were also questionable. Given that the Serapeum survived as anoffshoot, and in the TMA universe, the library had an even more secretiveoffshoot in its Archive, it’s likely even harder to place the date of thatUnknowing event. But for convenience,let’s use the later date as the destruction of the Archives. Specifically, the library wasburned around270 CE during an attack on the city by the Roman Emperor Aurelian.

He’s an interesting guy. He’s one of those rose-up-the-ranks militaryemperors like Domitian that tended to do fairly well by his empire. Aurelian’s rule was actually a period ofbarely keeping things together for the Roman Empire. They were stretched too thin, and it was onlythrough his concerted military efforts that the whole thing didn’t collapseduring his reign. He was actually deifiedby the Empire for his work.

So it’s interesting that theLibrary of Alexandria was destroyed as part of an effort to maintain order, tokeep the world as the Romans knew it from unravelling. It was done as an effort to fight change, inour world.

Could that have been whereGertrude’s plan started to hatch? Weknow she went to Alexandria and studied the remnants of that Archive. She might even be responsible for the deathof that former Archivist still trapped there.

We’re viewing the destructionof the Institute as a part of the Unknowing, but whose word do we have forthat? Elias, who defines himselfentirely as the beating heart of the Institute. Of course he believes that the preservation of the Archive and theInstitute are necessary to prevent the Unknowing. And superficially, that makes sense. If the Unknowing is about changing the worldto be less, well, knowing, then maintaining the Archives should be of paramountimportance. But instead, Gertrudedecided to detonate the whole thing. Why? That’s the question I keepasking. If she knew that the Unknowingwas coming, and that things were rapidly declining toward the dance thatchanges the world, why would she pick that time to destroy the Archive?

Unless preventing theUnknowing is less about one side or the other winning than it is preserving thebalance.

So we come back to the poem ‘Ozymandias’,which is a hauntingly short, lonely piece. At its most basic, it’s a poem about all things ending, all thingsdecaying, and all things ending up as equal in the vast flat desert. We have in this a once-great statue, and aboast on a plaque demanding that the reader gaze upon the great works of thislost king. Except the works are gone,swallowed back by the equality of the desert.

Nothing beside remains.

I think that this specificline could certainly reference the Unknowing, in the simple fact that nothinglike that lasts. We don’t know if thedestruction of Alexandria was a successful Unknowing or not. One might claim that the fact that theStranger is attempting to dance the Unknowing again indicates it wasn’t. But how would we know? What is the result of the Unknowing? Change. But change keeps on going. Novictory is static. Do you think that ifthe Unknowing were to succeed, the Beholding would die? No. These beings, whatever they are, don’t have any concept of an end. They don’t exist that way. So one wins, and for a while they have astronger grip over this reality. Buteventually things turn around. All theirgreat works fall. The library isdestroyed. The mask shatters. All that’s left are remnants of thattime. A face in an empty desert.

And on a smaller level, Ithink that line is being addressed to Elias. His hubris clearly knows no bounds. He is very much Ozymandias, this King of Kings, this beating heart of hiskingdom. Look on his works: the libraryof the Institute is one of the premiere paranormal libraries in the world. The other supernatural beings look at thisman—because he still is mostly a man—and they respect him. They respect the order he keeps and the powerhe wields. And right now, it really doesfeel like we have to look on his works and despair. He’s the single most powerful entity directlyinvolved in the story right now.

But change happens. The library falls. The Unknowing happens or it doesn’t. This show is masterful at the surprisinganticlimax, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a part of theUnknowing. If the Stranger wins … andnothing in particular happens. Becausethe world is already uncanny. Things tipone direction or the other, but they are always eventually leveled backout. It seems much more immediate forthe characters, of course, as they are affected on an amplified scale by theseevents. But to the Great Old Ones? It’s just another move in the game, with therubble of a thousand moves before stretched out across the globe.

And this is why I really needto find out why Gertrude decided that destroying the Institute wasnecessary. This is why I need to knowwhat she discovered when she went to Alexandria. When she met the oldest Archivist inexistence. This is why I need to knowwhat was in the Schwartzwald tomb that was powerful enough to restart theArchive through Jonah Magnus. This iswhy I want to know more about what happened during the last Unknowing event,who won, and how. Because even though it’sjust another move in a game without end, even though everything does eventuallyrevert to the desert, we care about this particular move. And to understand how this is going to playout, Jon needs to understand what came before.

Elias is Ozymandias, revelingin his works even as they are fleeting. He’s lost track of his own scope in this game, his own importance. I think Gertrude kept that sense that she wassmall, and that her moves had to be strategic to achieve her ends, whateverthose were. She had a sense that allthings end, that some things might need to end. Perhaps she let go of too much. Jon isn’t Elias or Gertrude. He’sslapped in the face at every opportunity with the notion that he’s not the mostpowerful being in the room. He cares somuch he hates it. He wants to protectpeople, which makes this move and this choice matter to him perhaps more thanit even did for Gertrude. She wasplaying the game. He’s trying to save asmany people as possible. It’s the pieceson the board he cares about, not necessarily the result of the game.

And that’s where his choicesare going to differ from Elias and Gertrude. He’s not a statue in the desert, nor is he the sacking army that levelsthe library. He’s just one guy given acertain amount of power and more importance in this game than he everwanted. He’s connected to his humanity ina way that Gertrude wasn’t, and that Elias can’t understand. His entire history says that he’s isolatedand distant. That he avoids deep andmeaningful relationships. But that doesn’tmean he doesn’t care. Entirely theopposite, really. He cares toomuch. And that means that how he playsthis game is going to be radically different to the way that Elias or Gertrudewould. In the end, the Archive may wellfall. The Stranger may or may notwin. But Jon will simply try to savewhoever he can.

#The Magnus Archives #this has been a bit rambly #I started out with the poem #but ended up spiralling out through theories about characters #and a stroll through history #because I love me some history #hopefully you can figure out what the hell I was trying to say here #apologies for a certain lack of a central point here #biextroverts

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ionlyknow1truth-blog · 7 years

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Kylo Ren & Rey: The Force, Destiny and their Connection

There's always been a certain passage in Alan Dean Foster's novelization of TFA that has especially peeked my curiosity. I had intended just to talk about that alone, but rereading the passage has excited me once again about other things, so I'm just going to dissect the last half of the passage some. This is the scene I'm referring to:

'Where the strength to defy him came from she did not know, but if anything her voice grew a little stronger. "I'm not giving you anything."

His response reflected his unconcern. "We'll see."

Narrowing his gaze and his focus, he locked eyes with her. She met his gaze without trying to look away. She should have looked away. It would have been the rational thing to do. The sane thing to do. Instead, she just glared, trying not to flinch, to blink.

Ah, he thought to himself. Something there, of interest. Not the image of the map. That would take another moment. But definitely something worth investigating. He shifted his perception toward it, seeking to identify, to analyze, to-

The barrier he encountered stopped him cold. And it was he, Kylo Ren, who blinked. It made no sense. He pushed hard with his mind -and the probe went nowhere.

A look of amazement replaced the fear on Rey's face as she discovered herself inside his mind. Stunned at the realization, she found herself inexorably drawn to -to....

"You," she heard herself saying clearly, "you're afraid. That you will never be as strong as —Darth Vader!"

His hand pulled sharply away from her cheek as if her skin had suddenly turned white-hot. Confused, rattled, he stumbled back from her. Her gaze followed him. Her eyes were the same, but something else had changed —something behind them, in her stare and in her posture. He moved to leave and, at the last moment, gestured powerfully in her direction. The restraints that had held her wrists snapped back into place, once again securing her to the inclined platform. Then he once again donned his mask and was gone.

In the corridor, a stunned Ren found that he was breathing hard. That in itself was unsettling. He did not know what had just transpired in the holding cell and, not knowing, was left uncertain how to proceed. He was spared further bewilderment when a trooper appeared, coming toward him. Straightening, Ren gathered himself.

The trooper halted. His evident discomfort at having to speak to Ren bolstered his superior's shaken persona.

"Sir! The Supreme Leader has requested your presence."

Ren nodded and headed off in the necessary direction, accompanied by the trooper. The latter did not pay attention when the tall figure he was escorting looked back over his shoulder.

In the holding cell, Rey relaxed against the platform. That she could relax at all was significant in itself. Something of great consequence had just taken place. How and what, she did not know. Even in her present situation she felt encouraged, though why that should be she was still uncertain. One thing was clear.

She was going to be given time to contemplate it.'

-The Force Awakens,

Alan Dean Foster

So many yummy tidbits in here, where oh where to begin! How about with the sentence I originally had in mind... like I said, this one has always been a bit of a mystery for me, but when taken in context of what's happening around it, we can perhaps glean exactly what it means. Here's what I'm referring to:

'Ah, he thought to himself. Something there, of interest. Not the image of the map. That would take another moment. But definitely something worth investigating. He shifted his perception toward it, seeking to identify, to analyze, to —

The barrier he encountered stopped him cold.'

I've always wondered what it was in her mind that drew his obvious interest, which he himself didn't understand and wanted to know. I thought at first it had something to do with her past, but from Daisy's comments, (as well as Pablo, JJ, and Rian's) it would seem her past is not really important, or at least, not vital to the storyline. Maz also tells us this, and as our wise old yoda figure, I'm going to take her words at face value: Rey's past is behind her, let's move on from there.

I think it's common knowledge now that there is a connection between Kylo and Rey. We even have a good idea of what that connection is,

-Kylo and Rey are two halves of our protagonist.... They are two halves of the dark and the light. -Rian Johnson

Official LF art by Brandon Kenney Titled, 'Call to the Light'

Two halves equal One whole. One is incomplete without the Other. Fate rests on their shoulders, equally. Their destiny is coming together to fulfill the purpose required of them. They can not fulfill their calling alone. They are equals who will also compliment one another. They quite literally need each other.

Understanding this could maybe help us to understand what it is that's caught Kylo's attention:

What if it's the connection that's between them that he's sensing at this moment?

Rey tells us there's always been something inside of her -and now it's awake. We learn in our first encounter with Snoke that there's been an awakening. This is evidence that Rey was awakened before the interrogation scene. (Side note: this would explain how Rey could fly the mfalcon so expertly without previous practice; remember her shock about it)? Here is the awakening scene I'm speaking of,

"....There has been an awakening in the Force. Have you felt it?"

Ren nodded. "Yes."

"The elements align, Kylo Ren. You alone are caught in the winds of the storm. Your bond is not just to Vader, but to Skywalker himself. Leia..."

Bond. Connection. Through the Force.

Now let's look at Kylo and Rey's very first meeting on Takodona,

'Having circled her, he moved even closer, peering into her face, her eyes. Then the red lightsaber he held came up: close to her flesh, close enough to cast a red glow on her skin.

"Something." He sounded mystified. "There is something.... Who are you?"

The connection is already there. It's not just the fact that she's a force sensitive. Why would that alone mystify Kylo? It wouldn't. He's been around Force sensitives before. He didn't have a connection with them. There was nothing mysterious there about them. We will see this connection going beyond a normal famile or master/apprentice bond.

Here's Rey's first thought when she sees Kylo,

"It was the nightmare..."

The Force vision comes into focus. A major part of her destiny is standing in front of her. The Force made sure she knew it, or is at least trying to inform her of it. That Kylo is a part of her destiny, and he hers, is certain. The question that immediately follows then is, Why?

The Force is clearly drawing these two together, for a specific purpose: to bring balance. Ah, one of the main themes of Star Wars: Balance. Snoke and his radical ways upset that balance, and Kylo as his apprentice is also a part of that upset. They must be stopped. So here we are, Rey is chosen and called (yes I said chosen). She has a specific purpose: Answer the call to your destiny and Restore the balance. BUT Kylo is the Skywalker of this trilogy. Not Rey. This story is just as much his as it is hers. He has his own destiny to fulfill, and he will meet Rey in the middle, with his other half, in perfect harmony. (And I'm not even getting into the underlying romance all this implies at the moment, I'm merely stating the bare platonic facts).

Now let's go back to the original passage. I love this, because immediately we find that Kylo Ren has met his match.

-"Where the strength came from to defy him she did not know, but if anything, her voice grew a little stronger. "I'm not giving you anything."

-'She met his stare without trying to look away. She should have looked away. It would have been the rational thing to do. The sane thing to do. Instead she just glared, trying not to flinch, to blink.'

-'The barrier he encountered stopped him cold. And it was he, Kylo Ren, who blinked.'

-'His hand pulled away from her cheek as if her skin had suddenly turned white-hot. Confused, rattled, he stumbled back from her. Her gaze followed him.'

-'In the corridor, a stunned Ren found that he was breathing hard. That in itself was unsettling. He did not know what had just transpired in the holding cell and, not knowing, was left uncertain how to proceed. He was spared further bewilderment when a trooper appeared, coming toward him. Straightening, Ren gathered himself.'

Kylo Ren is not just flustered by her. He's completely and utterly thrown off his game. Rey is different from anyone he's ever encountered, including any other person with the Force. She is unique, but not one of a kind. We are looking at two of a kind: Reylo, in its barest form, without going into subtext or parallels. Look at how drawn he is to her:

'The latter (trooper) did not pay attention when the tall figure he was escorting looked back over his shoulder.'

LMAO !!! Guys, that is truly hilarious! He is so unequivocally drawn to her he looks back over his shoulder!! That he's shocked and rattled is clear, but I'd also add curious to that mix. She's completely knocked him for a loop, mystified him from their very first encounter, and possibly even before that. The famous lines "you've bewitched me body and soul" immediately comes to my mind. Or even more dramatically "If I am the phantom, it is because man's hatred has made me so. If I am to be saved it is because your love redeems me." LOL! And though I do realize this isn't about physical attraction to her, but a mystical attraction through the Force, it appears to me only a matter of time before the latter evolves into the former as a natural progression of the story. And you can bet your bubbles Daisy and Adam had a chemistry reading, one LF/Disney is guarding with their life right now - for good reason.

What is extremely important to note in this whole passage is that Rey emerges the victor of their exchange. Yes, she's strapped down. Yes, she's afraid. Yes, she's even shed some tears. But all of that is overridden by the fact that she defies him openly with her words, meets his stare head on with an unblinking glare, succeeds on entering his mind while he fails to enter hers, exposes what must be one of his deepest secrets, leaves him confused, rattled and bewildered -while she herself ends up oddly relaxed and encouraged. Rey is the stronger one in this moment. Another interesting occurrence during their exchange is this line,

'Her eyes were the same, but something else had changed —something behind them, in her stare and in her posture.' Something changed here. She becomes calm now, staring him down. Did she become 'one with the Force' here? Was a Force bond fully tied at this moment? It's too soon to say exactly, but what is sure is he has met his match. Their connection is unlike anyone else, not just because the Force wills it that way, but because she's rising to that calling, even though she doesn't realize it yet.

This connection will not end with Kylo. Rey herself feels something there, but having no real knowledge of the Force it is even more confusing for her. Later during the snow battle, Kylo has an important revelation, coming to the realization that the Force awakening has to do with Rey. He's beginning to understand, at least to some small degree. We've only just glimpsed Rey's turmoil in TLJ trailer. It will be exciting to see how these two disparate pieces finally come together as One Whole.

Official LF art by Matt Busch

#reylo #meta #speculation #tfa novelization

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