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majorbaby · 1 year

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tl;dr why i talk about race on MASH so much and why i think it's worth doing inspite of the horrors lol and what you can expect from me re: race on MASH going forward

one of the things that drew me to MASH fandom, and one of the reasons i've persisted in it for so is how much meta is generated by smart, passionate fans who were pulled in by the smart, passionate and political writing on MASH, which did all of that while being damn funny.

disclaimer: "meta" isn't better or inherently more ~intellectual~ than fanfiction or squee or fanart or memes or "two-braincell" content. in fact, i think meta can be all of these things, though i'm biased in that i think critical thought relies heavily on one's ability to make connections and pick up on intersecting concepts and i have a hard time reining in my natural tendency to do that, which is why my posts are so long and convoluted - i am working on it.

i wasn't, and still am not, dismayed by the (perceived or actual) void of long-form commentary on race and class on MASH. tbf there are a few people who note these things as they appear, but not really many who centered it in their meta. still, i appreciate at least an awareness.

if anything, it gave me some confidence that i could add something new and valuable to the collective space. that's why i started writing about race on MASH and tagging it as such. and generally, it's been pretty well received, although i'd be open to more people talking about and sharing their views on the subject.

what does bother me though now though, is that i should've known better assuming that there was no angle on race already being espoused and freely adopted by people. the absence of any statements about race is in fact a loud, clear statement on race. the absence of racialized voices in any public discourse is painfully obvious. and tbh, i'm a little surprised by how little the korean-ness of the korean war features in analysis. yes it's true that MASH might've been about "the vietnam war" but that's less of the jump it takes in the later years, when it becomes about "all war" or even more vaguely "all suffering"

it's been pointed out to me in the past that some people think the racism of the later years is "subtle" and - tbh, it's fine to see it that way if maybe you've not been the target of "subtle" racism in your life or you haven't studied the pervasiveness of racism or you haven't consumed the work of people who have done both. but i think it's pretty shortsighted to openly claim that something is "subtly" racist and not be prepared to defend that position with examples, or quantify what you mean when you say "subtle". and i'm not really willing to hear such distinctions being made unless its first been explained to me why we're using a spectrum of "loud to quiet racism".

additionally, the fanbase has been pretty vocal about misogyny. i believe this is a popular justification "start from season 4", which i've talked everyone's ear off about so i won't do it again here*. i'm glad we know that Hawkeye making comments about nurses' bottoms in OR is harassment - but then again, do we know that? Or do we limit our critiques of misogyny to Trapper and Henry only? Do we know that BJ, as of a result of Hawkeye's advice, deciding not to tell Peg about his infidelity is just doubling-down on BJ's betrayal of her? The show definitely doesn't, and it's troublesome to me that we don't seem to know that either, or we do know, and we just forgive it.

*famous last words.

if I'm being exposed to this shallow criticism of the representation of women on MASH, then i'm raising my eyebrows at the lack of commentary on race - which is the other reason why i persist in writing about it. even MASH, with Hey Look Me Over, lightly acknowledges the intersection of race and gender, and the eternal plight of women of colour having to choose between pieces of their identity in order to show "solidarity" with their oppressors - white women and racialized men. so why shouldn't we? and when i say "we" i mostly mean me, but i'd like to properly mean we.

there's other ways we've talked about race without talking about race and not realized it. and there's one very big example that i'm going to address in a later post. i just wanted to talk to myself about why i think it's important and worth doing, beyond any suspicion there may be about my motives being benign stuff that doesn't actually bother me at all. like who's fucking hawkeye post-war or individual people looking to colonel potter as a father-figure. if it were just that, and if there wasn't so much conventional wisdom floating around that bore no connection to unconscious biases we (me included) have about race, class, gender etc, then i wouldn't be interested in unpacking it.

such posts will be tagged #race on mash, #class on mash

#... i'll have a thought and that thought triggers 4 other thoughts #and then before i know it i'm wrangling 400 other thoughts - i am literally doing it right now. this post was actually part of another post #and i think it can stand on it's own so.#race on mash #re: mash

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firelxdykatara · 3 years

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Hello! I say this in the kindest way possible, but can you please provide evidence that theowelspeaks is a terf? I'm a black zutara shipper and for years have really felt shoved by the fandom and it hasn't been my safe space. But YOUR blog and you made me feel better. I'm not in your discord but you're being accused of racism. I don't follow the owlspeaks and wanna support you but if you're being accused of racism why are you calling someone a terf?

Can you please show where they are a terf? I'm only asking this because I really REALLY love you and I support you. And if they are a terf, you need to provide evidence. It is heavily suspicious when a person of color calls out a white woman on racism and you don't address the accusations but just call them a terf. I want to support you I really do because you made me feel comfortable in the fandom, but I need to see concrete evidence that they're a terf. Never mind, I saw the whole situation and honestly I'm disgusted I ever follow or looked up to you. You're literally no different from other racist white shippers. I think there went my love for zutara.

I'm going to take this at face value--not that, on any real level, I actually believe you were a follower of mine or did anything close to due diligence, because if you were or had then you would know that I never actually called that blogger a terf--and answer as respectfully as I can. Mostly because I want anyone who has genuine issues with anything I've said or done to know that despite whatever's going around about me right now, I am willing to listen to criticism if it comes from a place of good faith.

(You can think whatever you want about my insistence on 'good faith', but the fact is that I have weathered being slammed with accusations of pedophilia and other horrible things over differences in headcanon of shit like character ages or writing a fic set years post-canon because I felt like it, right down to the insistence that I'm a horrible racist because of my url, so no. I'm not going to listen to someone slinging slurs and buzzwords in my inbox just because they claim to be a poc. And before that sets anyone off, the slurs I'm talking about are aimed at my queerness. I do not consider being called racist or a white bitch or whatever slurs, because they aren't.)

First of all, once again, I never called that blogger a terf. You can easily read my post about them for yourself and see that--ctrl+F for the term 'terf', and you will not find it. Why? Because I called them out on peddling radfem rhetoric, (which they are) not for being a terf. All terfs are radfems--it's in the name--but not all radfems are terfs, although all radfem rhetoric is exceptionally harmful to queer people in general, and queer poc more than most, as is the nature of intersectionality.

Anti-kink rhetoric, and the insistence that some kink is inherently harmful and that no one could legitimately have these kinks or fetishes without being mentally ill or traumatized, is radfem rhetoric. That's where it comes from, that's where it leads to, and I'll be honest here, 'radfem' is not an identity label. It's an ideology. You do not get to parrot core tenets of that ideology and then claim to not be a radfem. That simply isn't how this works.

Furthermore, I have no idea who the person behind theowlspeaks blog is. I will take them at their word that they are not white, but that doesn't exactly narrow things down--and considering the fact that they chose to put me on blast for their small but dedicated ring of followers rather than actually coming to me personally first about any of this (their blog is very obviously a burner, and it wouldn't have been that difficult to approach me since I've only ever turned anon off once, for one night to give myself some breathing room, and otherwise my asks and DMs have always been open), I have no reason to actually care about what they're saying. But I point out the lack of knowledge of their identity because a) they didn't even reveal themselves as not white until.... yesterday? or something, when they were directly asked about it, and b) trying to frame this as 'white woman accused of racism calls person of color a terf' is... disingenuous at best given the fact that I have been calling them a radfem (which they are) since well before they posted that screenshot and my name wound up on their blog, so you got the order of events just a little backwards.

I blocked them initially because of the radfem rhetoric they were peddling about kink and fetishes, and I have the right to establish that boundary. This blog is for me, it is my space, and I do not have to expose myself to views I find gross or harmful just because they dress it up in faux-woke terminology and try to pretend they actually care.

If they cared about real people more than the fictional characters they are so adamantly 'protecting', then they wouldn't have brushed off the actual racism (from one of their followers--they're more than happy to blast me without any evidence, but that's hardly out of the ordinary for people like that) that was brought to their attention by refocusing the discussion on the fake people who literally can't be hurt by any of this because they don't exist. They wouldn't be ignoring the two woc who chose to contact them and tell them why they made the choices they did regarding both the discord and the smut week event, while being perfectly happy to platform anons who may or may not be who or what they say they are.

I, for one, am not going to apologize for caring more about real people than fictional characters. I'm not going to apologize for thinking it's absolutely ludicrous to pretend that fiction is somehow harmful just by existing, especially when it's appropriately tagged so that anyone who finds the content harmful can avoid it. I'm not going to back down from these opinions just because a handful of people have apparently decided I'm a horrible person because of it. And I'm certainly not going to apologize for thinking it's despicable that someone who was not involved in the conversation chose to leak out of context screenshots rather than privately contacting any of the people involved or even going to any of the mods, before going right to an anonymous blog. You may not care about me or my mental health, but I had panic attacks because of that leak--not because I said anything untoward in that screenshot, not because I've ever said anything in that discord that I wouldn't happily stand behind on my blog, but because I no longer felt safe. And I am not going to bare my trauma to a complete stranger to justify that lmfao.

So, like, think what you want to. I'm pretty sure that blogger is getting high off of the drama they are creating, none of which would actually have happened or been any real issue if more people were able to think, gee, maybe this work that is tagged with things I don't want to read about is not for me! Maybe I shouldn't read this piece, since it would probably upset me, and there's plenty others around for me to consume! I do not trust that blogger's intentions. I do not trust that they actually give a shit about any real people, or they wouldn't have posted an out of context screenshot of... literally nothing tbh, when they had no right to and are now protecting the identity of the person who leaked them instead of giving a shit about any of the real people in that space who no longer feel safe because we aren't sure who we can't trust.

But you've already made up your mind, and I can't change that. I genuinely hope you have a nice life, and find fandom spaces more suited to your tastes.

#Anonymous #asked #anon hate party #fandom racism #salt for ts #theowlspeaks discourse #idk what else to tag this #i'm not putting it in the zk tag cause there's been enough bs lately

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zuzuslastbraincell · 3 years

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☕ Aang.

He's a character I don't see you talk about much, so I'm curious about you thoughts on him, his character arc, what you like or dislike about him, etc.

The short answer: Love Aang. He’s great! Feel like a lot of the dislike of his character (while fading, at least in the circles I’m in) is misplaced. People who think Aang didn’t make the right end game decisions don’t understand his character / miss the point, IMO. That said, dislike some of the character decisions especially r.e. Katara/Aang.

The longer answer: I really love Aang and I feel like the hate he receives from various parts of the fandom is very unwarranted, though I wonder if it stems from watching the show as a child his age and finding his playfulness unrelatable - like as a kid I might have found it exasperating but as an adult I find it very refreshing and it is so obvious to me that Aang is A Child, it informs how he behaves and his decisions massively, and I wonder if the dislike comes from the lack of perspective and being unable to view Aang as a kid, being kids themselves when these haters watched the show?

That said, all kinds of people do dismiss Aang as immature and it frustrates me to no end, because being cynical =/= maturity, a willingness to make difficult decisions that betray deeply held beliefs =/= maturity, and Aang’s decision to stick to his beliefs should always be viewed in tandem with the context that he is a victim of genocide, that genocide includes the destruction of a culture’s common beliefs and practices too, and whether those beliefs live or die in the future starts and ends with him.

Additionally, I feel like Aang does possess a lot of emotional maturity for his age, even if he has bouts of being immature (like, normal, honestly). Like he processes his anger in a way that is largely healthy, actually? I think that’s a thing most people don’t understand, they don’t see that as part of Aang, when really Aang processes his emotions like someone who’s had very clear healthy models for it. He does feel anger, and grief. When Aang tells Katara in the southern raiders episode vengeance isn’t the way, that’s something that he’s fought hard internally to believe in, that’s something that he’s learned.

Tying into that, I think an overlooked aspect of Aang’s development is how in season 1 Aang spent a lot of time looking for Fire Nation citizens who were good / who could be good, because the idea that the Fire Nation is fundamentally evil contradicts his world view (”the monks taught us all life was sacred”), but I think that was probably a perspective he clung onto as well as a way of dealing with his grief. Like, I feel like Aang has fought hard to reaffirm his beliefs in a world that seems determined to “prove him wrong”, surrounded with characters who largely don’t share or understand them & see it as naivety because they lack perspective and have only known war / understand the brutality of the opponent they’re facing on a personal level. I think we don’t see a lot of this explicitly, it’s largely subtext and often an internal debate -- Aang doesn’t have many people to soundboard these kind of thoughts off, there’s no one who is an air nomad or of a similar kind of upbringing around.

Tbh I feel that Aang is best in season 1, largely because his developments in later seasons also incorporate his feelings about Katara as part of his general development, and if I’m just completely honest with you all, I mean no disrespect to Katara/Aang folks you’re cool in my books but I’m just not sold by it at all. For example, because Aang’s journey mastering the avatar state involves him reckoning with his earthly attachments and the idea of letting go, and that conflict revolves around his feelings for Katara, and because I am not particularly sold by Aang and Katara, that impacts on how I view that whole arc. I love a good friends to lovers arc where the depth of those feelings extends to both friendship and romance but I feel like the way ATLA writes romantic arcs often involves a character suddenly looking at another with heart eyes and very little actual bonding to justify that sudden change, very few *journeys* or *arcs* that culminate in feelings (unrelated, but this is my theory as to why Zuko is shipped with almost everyone, because he literally has several life-changing journeys with other characters at the tail end of S3), and it’s fairly unconvincing / pretty flat to me? Especially since we do not get anywhere near as much an insight into Katara’s feelings in that regard? I get that romance isn’t always a grand arc or whatever but given that it’s tied to a lot of Aang’s S2 development, I think it ought to have more prominence.

If I’m honest, I also feel like Aang’s development regarding Katara and the Avatar State was incomplete, and that made a lot of his S3 development frustrating because in other aspects I think he came into his own and matured - usually in subtle ways, like his attitude in the Southern Raiders, but also we see him from being understandably upset about having to hide his identity, to incorporate aspects of Fire Nation dress into his final late S3 look - but in that aspect, his arc felt incomplete to me? This might be a poor reading of it, but to expand on how I see it, in S2, Aang is incapable of letting go of Katara until literally the most critical moment, when he has to -- at which point, he is struck down by chance. In S3, the concept of entering into the Avatar State being a matter of difficulty is literally not mentioned, so we can presume he’s come to terms with letting go of Katara - which directly contradicts the pushy behaviour he shows in Ember Island Players, the way he ignores her boundaries? And then that’s literally never addressed, Aang never apologises, Katara and Aang never have an important conversation resolving the conflict there, and in the end Aang gets the girl? It’s frustrating.

Like, the way I see it, “letting go” of Katara shouldn’t mean putting no importance on her - I actually like the idea of Aang not being willing to leave his friends behind, his compassion and care is important in this aspect. Rather, if I were in the writer’s chair, I would have it that “letting go” means a willingness to face rejection. Aang lets go of a romantic prospect of Katara - and acknowledges she can and might reject him, and that’s always a possibility, but opens his heart to her anyway out of trust (and when they get together, it’s not because he’s proven himself worthy, but because Katara wants to be with him). I think that would have been such a monumentally *powerful* message, especially in a late 00s cartoon, prior to the likes of Adventure Time and Gravity Falls quite explicitly deconstructing the idea of the male protagonist always getting with their crush (I feel like a vital context new viewers miss r.e. Katara/Aang is that the male protagonist would always always get with the girl in cartoons, it always happened, to the extent that female characters existed as much as love interests as characters in their own rights). I honestly don’t think it would even require that much in terms of change! I might show that in S3 Aang still has difficulty with the Avatar state at times - he can go into it at will, but not always - and that’s because he’s in the process of letting Katara as a crush go. I’d still keep the kiss in Day of Black Sun - tbh, I have no issues there, he thought he’d never see her again quite possibly, he’s impulsive, it makes sense - but I’d maybe highlight a slight awkwardness afterwards. I might even keep the awful Ember Island Players conflict - but crucially, I think Aang would have to learn from this. I think when Aang might realise he’s still struggling with the Avatar state as late as Sozin’s Comet episode 1, panic, realise he needs to internalise that belief more, and I think he’d leave Katara a note - including an apology for his actions before, for pushing her when she wasn’t ready, but explaining also, that he needs to go on a journey by himself to figure this out. Rest of Sozin’s comet goes ahead as normal, more or less. I’d end with Katara, maybe at the tea shop afterwards, talking to Aang and asking him why he went off by himself, explaining that she & the gaang would be there for him, he didn’t have to go on a journey alone. Aang would explain that he didn’t expect they’d understand, they’re not monks, and Katara explaining that maybe they wouldn’t, but he could *try*, that’s a risk you sometimes take (but concedes they could have been more understanding). And I think over that conversation it hits Aang it’s not about being alone. Everything’s connected. It’s about not clinging on. it’s about being willing to lose. It’s about trust. I think by the end, they agree to try and communicate better, and Aang then asks Katara out - mirroring “Do you want to go penguin sledding with me?”, similar kind of activity. He almost tries to over-explain and say ‘listen it doesn’t have to go anywhere’ but Katara just smiles and says yeah. And they leave to go on their first real date.

Anyway that’s how I *would* have handled it and that is what I think could be an interesting and compelling arc that wouldn’t take much adjustment to add. Aang is afraid of losing Katara, and realising that he can and might lose her is important.

.... that’s way more than I intended to write but yeah. I feel like a lot of Aang’s development ties in with his feelings for Katara and that’s where I take issue.

#aang #soozenwrites

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lizzybeth1986 · 5 years

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hey! so I had a q about your latest platinum post. the problems with shane's treatment are very similar to the problems with hana's in trr. but i feel like you still love trr despite it and hate platinum for it? i'm not trying to be argumentative i'm legit curious lol. what made you decide to hate the whole book of platinum just bc of the shane issue? i personally think it was way less problematic than many other books and in choices that's usually the best you can hope for :/

Oh I have an easy answer for that. At least on the surface level. Platinum is a standalone, and given that it was mostly outsourced...chances are that it was always intended to be one. Its writers were aware it would be a standalone, at the very least by the MoDA Gala. Which means the writers wrote Shane the way they did knowing they would end this series soon. They didn't choose to rectify their mistakes with him, or involve him more - instead they wrote him out of an entire chapter.

In this case especially, I don't have the time, space and scope to hope the next book might be better, the way I could when TRR Book 1 or Book 2 ended. Up until Book 3, I was able to hope. And in fact when the announcements began to pour in for another book in the TRR series, I was very vocal about not wanting it to return if I was going to be seeing more of the same old shit. So in the case of Platinum, I'm not sure what hope I'm expected to have from a book that is ending even as I finish this ask.

Perfect Match, for instance, was another book I loved. Really loved and really had hopes for. But I'd constantly maintained, by the time it was getting over, it was that their treatment of Sloane - and the fact that Hayden and Sloane never got a real apology from the likes of Damien - that made it impossible for me to love that book the same way anymore. By the time PM ended, it was clear that the team was aware at some point that this was going to be their final book, yet allowed for Sloane's reunion with her mother to be overshadowed by Hayden, and allowed for Sloane's entire arc to be eaten up by, and then revolve around (if single), Khaan Mousavi.

Also...hmmm...I love TRR? Could you please say that to this person, who asked - no, insisted - I stop writing my essays and QTs because they were so offended that I found nothing "right" in the books anymore? Or this person, who implied that because Open Heart and The Elementalists were "worse" in terms of LI balance, and claimed TRR was a "million times better", I should not be complaining. I'd highly appreciate it if you could say this to the anon that tried to bait me and mock me for stating - with proof - that Liam wasn't exactly getting the best deal in terms of story (though better than Maxwell or Hana), and that Drake's eating into space began by Book 2 (I didn't post that ask, coz I don't appreciate that kind of baiting on my blog). There have been people - well-intentioned people - asking me if I could explore more "positives" in the book, just because for them my QTs since mid Book 3 have been filled with (what a lot of people feel is) too much criticism and negativity. I'd love for all of them to know how much I "love" TRR/H.

I've said this numerous times, and I'm running out of the patience I'd need to say it again. My QTs, my essays, and the asks I answer from people who have wanted to get my input, are a resource. They're there so that anyone who is curious about other routes, or about branch coding, or about meta, or who don't know certain characters very well, will have a place to look and know where their questions can be answered.

Their existence isn't a surefire sign that I'm in love with a book, and frankly every chapter of TRH that I'm reading is taking me nearer and nearer to the point where I would rather stop. They're there primarily because I've been looking at the variants in this series for longer than anyone else I know, have analyzed them more than anyone else I know. There are patterns I'm seeing that very few have. And I'm not boasting when I say that - I have actually had people come up to me and tell me they had no clue some of these things were even happening in the series (the treatment for Kiara and Penelope being a prime example).

I know you are asking with the best of intentions...but tbh I don't appreciate people assuming my thoughts for me. Especially when I've been establishing the exact opposite on my thoughts about the TRR series for this long, and especially when I've been speaking about the ill-treatment towards Hana, for way longer and in far more depth, than a lot of people I know.

I'm also a little taken aback by your dismissiveness when you talk about Shane. Perhaps you did not intend it, but "just because of the Shane issue" makes it sound like it's just one little glitch or line or scene and not an entire LI's arc being given dust from the beginning, for a book whose team was aware it was possibly not going to get a second book at least midway (I mean, one LI not getting fair screentime could ruin a player's entire experience of that game). And as if this treatment isn't already a pattern you can see from a huge pile of LIs and characters who have also been given bad treatment. For instance, would you call Xanthe meeting the end that she did in ACOR, "just a Xanthe issue?". Is the treatment for Aurora after she'd been proven innocent in OH, "just an Aurora issue"? Is Kiara's trauma being ignored - and addressed only after she was viewed as a suspect in TRR 3, "just a Kiara issue"? The fact that in recent books we were seeing black women written as stereotypes more than characters...is that a "Ellen" or "Scarlett" issue?? The fact that Dallas' painful arc could be wrapped up in mere minutes in BSC - what kind of issue would you call that? Or - when you put them all together and examine the same thing happening in different ways - do they stop becoming merely "issues" and start becoming insidious patterns? I leave that for you to decide.

As for your last point, that Platinum is "way less problematic" than other books, and that's the best we can hope for from this app...I'm afraid I'm no longer willing to settle like that anymore. I'm not forcing anyone to hate this book - if you like it and it has brought you joy, that's great. But I am not going to sugarcoat my feelings for either books just because of how I used to feel about them earlier. Nor am I going to keep giving PB the benefit of the doubt just because I had done so earlier, and I shouldn't be expected to.

I normally like and appreciate your inputs...but I'm sorry to say I find a lot of problems in this one.

#anti platinum

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lowat-golden-tower · 6 years

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Hey have you read homestuck? I'm trying to decide godtiers for the sides and thought that maybe you could help?

I have indeed read the Chaos Devil’s spawn of memes. Back in its hey-day I was eyeballs deep in that fandom, and yes, I was actually a source for classpect information at one point. I went and sifted through my old sources (god bless @dahniwitchoflight tbh) and tried to puzzle this one out.

Now note, I am very rusty with all of this and honestly the classpect system can be dissected any number of ways. So this is purely my interpretation.

With that said, shall we get to it?

TL;DR Version (for explanations and thorough analysis, check under Read More):

Thomas - Mage of BloodLogan - Witch of LightPatton - Knight of HopeRoman - Maid of Heart (ha)Virgil - Rogue of DoomDeceit - Sylph of VoidRemy - Heir of Breath (hi john)

So first I went and took a look at possible classes. I decided to include Thomas, Remy and Deceit along with the sides just for the fun of it, and surprisingly only one of them actually lined up with a single class and no other (the rest have many that could work).

Remy is a Breath player. Hands down. Nothing fits the sleepy rebel boi like Breath. Breath players can be disconnected, apathetic and indifferent. They’re detached, obsessed with liberties and freedoms and independence. They seek flexibility. If that isn’t Remy, then I don’t know what is. He shares these qualities with Virgil, actually, but I decided Remy exemplified the class far more.

Now for Remy’s class, I found four to be appropriate, so it was a matter of choosing the best. Heir, Mage, Sylph or Knight; after much deliberation I finally decided on Heir. Mages tend to have a dichotomy with their aspect I don’t see for Remy, Sylphs are too obsessed with pushing their aspect onto others, and Knights tend to use their aspect as a shield for fear of lacking in it. None of these suit Remy like the Heir, true naturals of their aspect who often don’t even need to actively seek it out. Usually they have problems getting stuck on one thing or another, and Remy does seem to have troubles with adapting. (Poor Thomas.)

Remy is an Heir of Breath. (Like John Egbert!)

Let’s go with Deceit next. He has the next lowest number of associated aspects after Remy, with just two: Rage or Void. In the end I found Rage to be too extreme of an aspect for Deceit, at least for the moment, with so little information known about him as a character. Ironically, he shares the Void association with Virgil, but I feel it is definitely more appropriate for Deceit. Void is infinite possibilities, its indifference and confusion, secrets, doubts, irrelevance. All things Deceit either is or does. The other sides would like to see him as irrelevant. He creates doubt and confusion through deceit, hoards secrets, and sees the bigger picture of things which is what prompts him to be deceitful in the first place. Creating something from nothing just because? Sounds like Deceit.

Now class… haha, oh boy. This was not so easy. About two-thirds of the classes for this aspect could apply to Deceit. So I had a lot of comparing to do, to narrow it down. Mage and Bard are two classes that I really struggled with, honestly. I feel like Mage of Void would suit Deceit if he became the truly despicable person we all know he could be, as the embodiment of deceit itself? While Bard of Void would apply more to “sympathetic Deceit,” a reformed Deceit who didn’t want to be the villain but was made out to be. And yet… Sylph of Void. Oh, Sylph of Void just screams Deceit, they are masters at hiding things and will happily do so, and make others do so.

Yeah, this one was really difficult. At the end of the day, I feel Sylph is the happy medium between Mage and Bard. They’re meddlers. They hide things; their actions, their motives, themselves. A Sylph of Void in particular would not be good working with others, making them feel useless, meaningless or insignificant. They’ll talk over others and shut them up. No one ever knows how much they’re hiding, or what they have up their sleeve. It’s all fitting.

Deceit is a Sylph of Void.

Let’s go with Thomas next. He’s tied with Logan for the most associated aspects at three. Space, Heart and Blood. In the end, I went with Blood. Heart just screams Patton to me far more, and Space feels more like Roman (but I’ll decipher those two when I get to them). No, Blood definitely feels like our Thomas. All about bonds, commitments, dependency on others and others onto you, taking responsibility and upholding promises. Our Thomas has an enormously strong bond with his friends, and even with the community he’s created. Not to mention his sides. :)

But now, what class for our creator? I narrowed it down to Mage, Maid or Knight, but in the end settled on Mage. Knight seemed just a little too insecure for Thomas, at least in this stage of his life. And Maid was a little too submissive, a bit too much of a doormat for relationships. No, Mage suits Thomas best. Tied down to his obligations; commitments to fulfill, promises to uphold, connections and bonds to maintain. They try to support the people they’ve bonded with, friends and family alike, and work hard to maintain those bonds.

He’s Mr. Dependable, or tries to be, but he often wonders about giving up a few of those obligations, of getting some more freedom and having fun. He fully feels the strain of all that responsibility. This even applies to his sides, each of whom he cares for and tries to keep stable, including their relationships with each other.

Thomas is a Mage of Blood.

Who next? Let’s go with Logan. Yes, finally digging into the main core of the sides. (He’s also my favorite.) Now due to Thomas taking Blood, that leaves Logan with Light and Mind as his possible aspects. Those of you familiar with Homestuck will understand why, as both are composed of a form of knowledge; having it, seeking it, stealing it, what have you. Now, Light also has a bit to do with luck, but that’s why I’m going to pick apart the threads and dissect them to figure out which suits Logan better.

Now for starters, Mind is the opposite of Heart, which I said suits Patton a lot. Hell, we have an entire video titled “Mind vs Heart” via Thomas, about how Logan and Patton are opposites. Nonetheless! I wanted to look at Light as a legitimate contender. Mind is reasonable decisions, it is logic, it’s rational and driven by pure thought. It can be impersonal, apathetic and indifferent; all things Logan has been, though he’s working on it. He gives equal weight to all options, not favoring any, no matter their moral siding. It is supremely Logan as any aspect goes.

Now Light, those with this aspect are knowledge seekers. They want to understand things. They take multiple sources of information and turn it into something useful, something usable. Scholars and researchers dedicated to knowledge for knowledge’s sake. They go after it with an intensity that might put off others. At their best, they are resourceful and driven. At their worst, fussy, pedantic and insensitive. HOO BOY if all this doesn’t sound like Logan too. And in the end…

Obvious a choice as Mind might be, I think Logan is indeed more Light. Perhaps in the beginning, when he was just Teacher, he could have been Mind. But he’s opened up so much more, revealed to us his quirks and eccentricities. He isn’t cold, unfeeling fact. He’s a rush of enthusiasm and a spark of joy and always thirsty to learn more, more, more to the point he can be blinded by his own desires. Yes, Logan is most definitely a Light player.

Class-wise, it was surprisingly hard. Few of the classes suited Logan all around, with the closest being Witch, Sylph and Heir. Now, we already have the latter two. I was trying to avoid doubles of the classes and aspects. Heirs are already gifted with a huge heaping helping of their aspect, they naturally gravitate to it. Their challenge is to not get stuck on one thing; to learn to change and adapt. Very Logan-like. Sylphs, as I mentioned, are meddlers, which is also very Logan-like. Witches, now… Witches control their aspect. They manipulate it. Think of Jade Harley, Feferi Peixes, Damara Megido; all witches who could utilize and abuse their aspect with a snap of their fingers.

Logan embodies logic, and knowledge; he loathes luck, probability and superstition. There have been times where he used his knowledge to come out on top, to try and expose others’ flaws, and he’s willing to see how some knowledge can be subjective. He often disagrees with the others on what they consider meaningful and important, and replaces it with his own views. He’s a know-it-all, he has an ego, and honestly he’s a little attention seeking. But he can also manipulate the information at his disposal, all the data Thomas has learned, to glean more from it- even if it wasn’t correct, or useful. This has also been shown in canon. Thusly, my conclusion…

Logan is a Witch of Light.

Let’s go with Virgil next. Now, like I said, I’m trying to avoid doubling up here. Remy is far more suited to Breath, and Deceit is more suited to Void. That leaves Virgil with the aspects of Heart, Rage and Doom. (I’m sure all of you saw the latter two coming.)

After reading further into Heart while looking into Thomas, I’ve decided it really doesn’t suit Virgil like I initially thought. Which gives us Doom and Rage to compare. Now Rage is unconditional hate or fear, refusal, rejection, skeptical criticism, doubt, negativity, despair, Getting the ‘Red Light’ or a Hard Stop, just absolutely no. That is Anxiety, and Virgil, to a T. Everything is going to turn out wrong. Don’t be fooled by peace and success, it can all go to Hell in a second. Nothing is “fine,” nothing is “okay.” But it’s not always fierce and lashing out, it also creeps up on you, paralyzing you, ensnaring you in a cage. It’s anxiety.

Doom on the other hand is harming, it’s all about control and limits, negativity, withdrawal, caution, but it’s also acceptance. It’s a little less extreme than Rage, more caution than outright disbelief and denial. Like Deceit with his classes, I get the distinct notion Anxiety was a Rage player, but once he became Virgil he settled firmly into the Doom aspect instead. He suffers, but with that suffering comes wisdom and empathy. He isn’t a healer or a fixer. He’s there to tell you something is wrong, but it’s okay, he’s there to suffer with you. He can be kind, but at his worst he can also be bitter, resentful and fatalistic- traits we saw far more in his earlier appearances.

So, Virgil is a Doom player. For him, I see Heir, Seer, Sylph or Rogue. Yet again, we already find ourselves with an Heir and a Sylph. Virgil sure does have a lot in common with Remy and Deceit, eh? So let’s focus more on Seer and Rogue.

Seers are shown knowledge of their aspect, and need to figure out how to apply that knowledge to the relevant situations. Virgil, seeing all the doom and negative consequences, and attempting to apply them where necessary; as anxiety does. Rogues, on the other hand, have problems coping with their aspect. They often think they can’t handle it, and they give up. Very defeatist. They’re supposed to come to terms with their aspect and own it.

And that, right there, is the key. Virgil initially being embittered by all the bad he saw in the world, the dangers, how no one ever wanted to listen to him or thought he was overreacting. Hyper-focused on if he can handle this job, if he’s really doing the right thing and being effective. Hell, there’s an entire video about Accepting Anxiety and I feel like it’s that video where Virgil would truly start to come into himself as a Rogue of Doom.

Rogues of Doom have trouble coping with rules, limits, obligations and responsibilities. They may think they don’t have the proper structure for it, or that they can’t handle it, or don’t deserve it. These are all doubts and fears Virgil tells to Thomas, as his anxiety. He constantly worries and frets over them not being good enough. He acts like he doesn’t care about not being accepted by the other sides, but in Accepting Anxiety it’s shown he really does. It eats him up inside. He feels repulsive to them, unnecessary and too pessimistic to be helpful or healthy.

Is it really futile to chase this desire? What if you stop, and regret it for the rest of your life? How do you know for sure this is necessary? Is it worth the sacrifice? Anxiety is uncertainty and questioning yourself, and that’s precisely what a Rogue of Doom does. They’re avoidant.

Once Virgil realizes he is important and is needed, he can step up and embrace those doubts and fears. He can use his pessimism and caution more constructively, to help Thomas and guide him, perhaps even pulling burdens and fears from the other sides to help them out as well. He, like all rogues, starts out selfish but has the capacity to become one of the most selfless classes. And through the progression of Sanders Sides, we have witnessed this growth.

Virgil is a Rogue of Doom.

That leaves us with Roman and Patton. I’m going to save Roman for last, because I feel like he’ll be tough. So let’s take a look at Patton!

I’ve already stated Heart suits him very well. However, we proved Logan didn’t fit the obvious, so let’s also look at the other aspects he could be associated with: Life and Hope. Hope and Heart are also aspects which could be associated with Roman.

Hope is unconditional love, confirmation, harmony, acceptance, naive optimism, belief and positivity. Everything is going to be okay, someway, somehow. It’s warm, accepting and open arms, lots of hugs, lots of “I’m here for you’s.” It’s a drive pushing you forward against all odds. Life is also positivity, growth, energy, recklessness and liberation. They’re always concerned for others and are deeply empathetic. They often put others’ needs before their own. At best, they are great caretakers, listeners and nurturers. At worst, they can prove to be passive-aggressive and pushy because they think they know best.

Heart, meanwhile, is irrational impulses, instinct, emotional, feelings, biased opinions, empathy and passion. It’s the soul. It’s who “You” are. It’s irrational and driven by pure feeling. There may be no justification for how they feel, but gosh darn it, they’re gonna feel it a whole lot anyway! Focused on morals, on what they view as “right,” and they show favoritism to options in this way. Very strong moral compass and, well, Patton is Thomas’ Morality.

So… yeah. This is indeed a tough one. I think it’s safe to say Heart and Hope trump Light here, and that Heart can most definitely suit either Patton or Roman. So to solve this, I decided to do a quick check to see if Roman would actually be a Heart player.

I’ve already crossed out Hope for him, as that is most definitely more of a Patton aspect. Fitting as Time is, I crossed that out as well. I feel it’s just a little too focused on the endgame and the “end of things” for Roman. He enjoys the story and the journey as much as the conclusion. Then I looked to Space, which is all about creation- but Space players are also patient. They pick and choose their battles, they take things as they come. That… is not Roman. Thus, in the end, I have decided.

Roman is Heart. Patton is Hope.

I’ll get to Roman’s class later. Let’s get back to Patton, now that we’ve established he is a Hope player. I narrowed down the classes to Knight or Page for him. Knights hide a fear of perceived fundamental failure with their aspect behind a shield of confidence and obvious effort. They’re supposed to learn that they are, indeed, enough and take it down a notch. Thanks to the nostalgia videos, we’ve seen this does, in fact, fit Patton. Pages, on the other hand, start with a lack of their aspect that they try to overcome with obvious overcompensation. They need to keep at it, even through the failures, to become the strongest of all player classes for their respective aspect. This also sort of suits Patton, but…

I’m gonna go with Knight of Hope. I really don’t see Patton lacking the aspect, even if he would try to overcompensate. He aligns more closely to Knight in that way, I find. Good at exploiting his own optimism and positivity, a great motivator and positive force. Great at instilling hope to get things moving along, a fantastic driving force sitting firm in his beliefs, even if occasionally he wonders if its enough. Is he being positive enough? Happy enough? Is he motivating the others the right amount? He piles and piles on the optimism, the joy, the good vibes even when he himself feels low. He welcomes and accepts new people and ideas, though he doesn’t tend to waver on his beliefs and ideas unless shown a “more real” alternative. And when he fails, he feels it intensely, as if he led everyone else astray. The moment he discovers one of his beliefs is false or truly harmful, he’ll drop it like it’s hot.

Patton is a Knight of Hope.

And last but not least, we have Princey. Roman, whom we’ve already determined is a Heart player. So half our work is done. Now to discover his class....

Out of those remaining, Maid or Page would be the most suitable choices. Maids of Heart start out relying on others to tell them what to love or hate. What to feel strongly or passionately about. They may even rely on others for their sense of self. Think a young Roman, a young creativity. Thomas turning to Disney, to Broadway, to his friends and parents and teachers for inspiration. Hell, Roman almost religiously follows Disney, believing all dreams will come true, princes are heroes and villains are irredeemable. I imagine these impressions being made at a young age.

As he grew, Roman would need to start relying on himself for that direction. He would need to look into himself, who he really is, and only take those outside forces as possible influences rather than the end-all, be-all. No one can tell you who you are except you. No one can decide what you love or hate. Roman creates his own sense of self, finds his true passions and then follows them, leading Thomas along this path. He’s an absolute force to be reckoned with when it comes to these passions, i.e. Disney. It’s infectious. Others get caught up in his own enthusiasm and excitement. Very Roman.

Pages of Heart, on the other hand, try to overcompensate for their lack of the thing rather than rely on others to fill the void. They act irrational and impulsive based on their instincts, which often leads to wrong decisions and interpretations. They try to act caring and empathetic to the point it comes off as insincere. Overemotional, open and honest to the point of giving away far too much information. They go overboard, they become obsessed with their passions. Super affectionate, over dramatic in their emotional displays. They blow everything out of proportion. Driven by strong desires, wants and needs. They need to learn how to be balanced.

As you can see, both of these classes suit Roman to a degree. However, I feel Page is a little... too extreme. I don’t believe Roman overcompensates that much, and he certainly doesn’t go to great lengths to be affectionate and caring towards the others. In fact, sometimes those emotions can be stunted, particularly with Virgil or Logan. No, I see Roman as a Maid. I see him as being inspired by the world around him, and then taking that inspiration and owning it.

Roman is (a) Maid of Heart. (Ha.)

#forrestwyrm #thomas sanders #sanders sides #homestuck au #logan sanders #patton sanders #virgil sanders #roman sanders #deceit sanders #remy sanders

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