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stereogeekspodcast · 4 years

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[Transcript] Season 1, Episode 3. What’s New – The New Mutants

We had thoughts about The New Mutants, few of them good. There were some enjoyable moments, which we discuss, along with sharing our thoughts on what could have been better.

Spoiler alert: we will be talking about the entire film.

Content warning: some of the content in the film can be triggering, please proceed with caution.

Listen to the episode on Anchor.

[Continuum by Audionautix plays]

Ron: Hello and welcome to Episode Three of Stereo Geeks. Today we'll be talking about what’s new in pop culture.

Mon: I’m Mon.

Ron: I'm Ron.

Mon: And this week we’re talking about The New Mutants.

Ron: This is a spoiler alert because we’ll be talking about the entire film, including the ending, so if you haven’t watched it yet, please watch the whole thing and then come back and listen to our podcast.

Please note, we will be discussing some triggering topics as contained within the film so, proceed with caution.

Ron: This film was initially intended for release in 2018, having been filmed in 2017, but it languished in production hell till 2020.

Mon: This year, it finally hit theaters, but because it was in the middle of the pandemic, most of us didn't go and watch it. Now that it's out on digital, we have some thoughts.

The film begins with Danielle Moonstar, played by Blu Hunt escaping the decimation of her village. She wakes up in a rehabilitation center, which is for mutants.

She is one of five students being supervised by Dr Cecilia Reyes, played by Alice Braga. The other students are Illyana Rasputin, played by Anya Taylor Joy; Rahne Sinclair by, played by Maisie Williams, Roberto Da Costa, played by Henry Zaga, and Sam Guthrie, played by Charlie Heaton. Let's talk about plot!

The film follows Dani as she gets to know these other mutants around her, tries to figure out what her power is, and tries to survive Dr Reyes’ experiments. Ron: There isn't much plot to speak of. It's very much a setup film, though there isn't any reason for us to believe that there's going to be a New Mutants 2. The majority of the film is spent with Danielle getting to know her fellow mutants and exploring their relationships. Though I would say that even there, the film doesn't really do a great job.

Mon: Yeah, there's a huge focus on the central relationship between Dani and Rahne. But the other characters, they're more antagonistic or just in the background. So it doesn't really develop her relation with them.

Ron: Yes, it comes across very much like the new girl being bullied, especially by Illyana though, that really doesn't do justice to the character as she appears in the comics. So, that was a bit of a surprise. Speaking of the backstories of these characters, we would say that really Rahne is the only one who has a similar backstory to the one that she has in the comics.

Mon: In the comics, Rahne comes from a small, very rigid, very religious community, and they freak out when she turns into a werewolf, because of her mutation. That backstory remains the same in the film, except now she’s been branded as a witch.

Ron: I didn't mind that particular inclusion. I think that made sense within the scope of the story. The other characters, there is no similarity between their stories in the film, and how we got to know them in the comic books.

Mon: Let's start with Dani herself. Why is there no mother in the picture? Ron: In the ‘Demon Bear’ storyline, which this movie is based on, Dani loses both her parents, and that actually does play a very large part in the conclusion. But the film only focuses on her father in the very opening scene, which was not edited very well, and we see him later on as well. Mon: Let's talk about Roberto.

Ron: I have to say I was so, so disappointed in Roberto Da Costa in this film. Sunspot was my favorite new mutant and the character in the film doesn't resemble the comic book character at all. Especially not his backstory which plays such an important part in not only his mutant powers, but the way he engages with the world.

Mon: I think the first warning that they wouldn't be doing ‘Berto correctly was the casting of Henry Zaga.

Ron: I'm sure Zaga is a very good actor. I haven't seen him in anything else, but I'm sure he's very talented. Unfortunately, he doesn't look anything like Sunspot in the comics. There is one integral part of his character arc that is completely missing from this film because Zaga has been cast in it.

Let me explain. In the comics, Roberto Da Costa belongs to a very rich family. He doesn't really understand his privilege. But he is also very dark skinned. Because of this, despite his privilege, he is bullied. It is while being bullied by fellow classmates that his powers activate.

Mon: ‘Berto in the comics is Afro-Latino, but they refused to cast character an actor who reflected the same heritage in the film, and that really does him a great disservice. Because race is an important part of ‘Berto’s characterization in the comics, but it's completely forgotten and the backstory that Berto is given in the film is boring. It is staid and it is another example of fridging.

Ron: In the film, Sunspot’s powers activate when he is having a romantic moment with his girlfriend, thus killing her in the most awful way possible. So, not only do they erase an extremely important part of his characterization, but they fridge his girlfriend who is then used as horror movie-material later on. Mon: Let's move on to Sam Guthrie. So, Sam is kind of the pseudo-leader in the comics. He's conveniently the leader because, I feel like the writers, at the time, weren't sure who they could give it to so they gave it to the southern white guy.

In the comics, he's very happy, he's a very positive guy. He's had hardships in his life, but he never lets it bring him down. He struggles with his powers, he's a cannonball, quite literally, and it's a difficult power to master. The film touches on the fact that Sam still struggles with mastering his power, but he's given this broody, overly dark backstory, which doesn't do the character any justice. Sam's storyline in the film really should have come with some kind of warning. Because Sam is essentially self-harming throughout. He's in a cast constantly, he is seen punching himself. Basically, it's quite disturbing to watch what happens. And it comes without context, and we'll come to the fact that a lot of what happens in the film is without context.

What we learn is that Sam was working in the mines with his father and several other men, and his powers accidentally activated and he killed, not only the other men, but also his father, and he's obviously struggling with what happened. And, and he's taking it out on himself. He's not able to grow, learn, or attach himself to anybody. So, this was a huge departure, again, from the comics.

Ron: And then finally we come to Illyana, whose backstory is also extremely different from the comics. When we first meet her, she is a very small child, who ends up in limbo and spends her formative years in that hellhole. But when she's rescued which is a few seconds after her disappearance, she's a teenager.

None of that, obviously made it into this film, understandably, because the budgets would not have allowed for it, though we do get glimpses of limbo. However, Illyana’s backstory appears to be about her being trapped somewhere and being abused. What did you think about her backstory?

Mon: I didn't feel like it was necessary to have that kind of backstory. What I will say is that this is the subtlest way of suggesting any kind of assault or abuse on any kind of character. They really worked hard to be sensitive to the topic, but at the same time I have to ask, why did Illyana need that backstory in the first place? Why can’t she just come from a poor Russian home? Why couldn't it be like a Dostoyevsky story? She didn't need that kind of background.

And I also felt like there were maybe one too many hints about what happened to her. I understand the need to pare down Illyana’s rather complicated, fantastical comic book origins, but they went the other extreme by making it a little too realistic.

Ron: They tried to marry some of the realistic elements of childhood abuse that we see in real life with the fantastical elements of her childish imagination of what these monsters were. I think that worked for them. But to keep coming back and for us to keep seeing small Illyana in that room, there were one too many moments that would have been triggering for anybody who has been in that situation in their life. So, basically there are two instances in this film where they should have added content warnings, and they had three years to do that, but they didn't.

Mon: And that's not the only thing they didn't fix in the three years. The CGI is terrible! When you're talking about a comic book adaptation, especially with the New Mutants, who are more fantastical, and have more imaginative powers, that requires a lot of special effects. I was disappointed with what we saw. We didn't actually see their powers in action as much as we saw some of the horror elements, and I'm sorry but that is the worst CGI I've seen.

After people have been shouting about how hard they've been working to make this product the best that they can, it honestly feels like this movie was made and somebody forgot about what to do with it. And then they just kept playing hot potato with it. They didn't embellish it, nothing. It's not like they tried very hard to make it the best story possible.

Ron: And I think the other problem is that from the very first previews, people had strong reactions to Zaga, to Heaton. There were a lot of people who were upset that an Afro-Latino character had been replaced by somebody who was lighter skinned. This is colorism and 2020 may have put colorism in the spotlight, but, in 2017, this was definitely something that people knew about.

There were also a lot of concern about Heaton’s casting. He was hot off the success of Stranger Things; it made sense to cast him in a movie like this. But he doesn't fit Sam Guthrie at all! I was extremely disappointed in Zaga and Heaton in this film. Not only did they not look like the characters, they had so little to do.

The burden of carrying this film really fell on Blu Hunt and Maisie Williams. They did a good job. But there were also a lot of problematic elements around them. So, whatever they were doing was undone. For instance, Illyana is unnecessarily antagonistic towards Dani. She's also racist. She keeps calling her Pocahontas!

They did a good job. But there were also a lot of problematic elements around them. So, whatever they were doing was undone. For instance, Illyana is unnecessarily antagonistic towards Dani. She's also racist. She keeps calling her Pocahontas!

Mon: Yeah, I found that very disturbing and I didn't see any need for that.

Ron: Absolutely not. And 2017 was one year after Trump was elected. He made a lot of Pocahontas comments soon after coming into power. And a lot of people were very, very upset about that, and they were very vocal about that. Why would they put this into the film?

Mon: I think the whole ‘Pocahontas’ thing in the film is kind of reflective of how the director seems quite blinkered in his view? We have the Zaga issue. We have the racist comments against Dani Moonstar, as well. But there's a character missing in this film from the comics and she's integral!

Xi’an Coy Manh, who is the mutant Karma, is a Vietnamese immigrant who becomes the leader of the group. She is conspicuously missing from this film. Why is the Asian mutant, who was such an important part of the comics missing from the film?

Ron: I understand that for the majority of the ‘Demon Bear’ storyline, Xi’an was not there. But if you're making a film which introduces this particular group, you've got to have her.

Mon: I completely agree with you on that. It makes no sense. We were talking about how Heaton and Zaga really don't do much in film. I have to say, this is probably the first time I've seen a genre film where the two boys spend most of the time cleaning dishes and washing clothes, whereas the girls seem to be driving the story forward. It's hinted at that ‘Berto and Sam are becoming close friends, but you don't really see much of the relationship; it's just one montage where they're having a little bit of fun, but the three girls, there's a lot more to their relationship, especially between Blue Hunt’s Dani Moonstar and Maisie Williams’ Rahne Sinclair.

Ron: I was pleasantly surprised that from nowhere, we got this queer relationship. And it comes off the fact that Blu and Maisie obviously have a lot of chemistry. So, the film just went with it. From the very first time that Dani and Rahne see each other, there's this connection. And it just grows throughout the film, and they become a couple.

Mon: I couldn't believe it because, in the books, they're pretty much written as straight. Romance isn't a huge part of their storylines. But in this film, it's there from the very beginning. There's a scene soon after Danny wakes up, and she's struggling to cope with the death of her father, the death of her entire village, and Rahne really talks her down. It's really sweet, this interaction between two young people who are struggling to find themselves in a world that doesn't make sense. And it’s also a little bit funny.

Ron: In any other film, one of the characters would have been a man. But here, it's two girls. And it's one of the nicest moments in the entire film. Once again, a trigger warning is required. But it's a great moment. Because we have seen so many superhero films, and we're still waiting for those queer characters. And it didn't feel forced at all.

Mon: It definitely because, as you mentioned, the actors had so much chemistry between them. It's a friendly chemistry, and the story doesn't try too hard. It makes sure that they come together because they understand each other. Because Rahne is such a kindly character and Dani needs that at that point, she needs somebody who can just understand. And she also needs to know that other people are also suffering in some way, they have their own pain, so that she can open up herself.

Ron: I also liked was there were no salacious comments, no maliciousness towards that relationship.

Mon: They were no gratuitous scenes.

Ron: Exactly, especially when the characters are young, you know, it would have been very disturbing to watch that. We anyway had the whole thing with Illyana’s backstory. One of the things that we really get to see in genre cinema, that even if you have queer characters, if everybody around them is like, ‘oh, you're queer, or gay or trans’, that ruins the moment, because that is again singling out the marginalized character. We also need to talk about how them being a couple isn't the only driving force behind their characterizations. It is a part of what makes them grow and brings them closer. But it also plays a part in resolving some of the issues in the plot.

Mon: So, here's the problem. While this beautiful little love story is fleshed out throughout the film, everything else got left behind. There isn't really anything else. Even if this was supposed to be a character driven story, or a relationship building story, those are also left by the wayside. Because Illyana is antagonistic, when she comes to Dani aide, it's supposed to be seen as she's coming to help Dani out of a newfound-love for Dani, but it's not true. And I couldn't actually read it that way.

Mon: When I was watching the film, I couldn't understand why Illyana suddenly had this change of heart. She'd managed to fight the monsters from her childhood that had come to come to life. But why did that make her feel like she had to fight for Dani? It seemed more like all the other characters, barring Rahne, were fighting for survival. Ron: I agree. Even Sunspot. When he's in the church, it doesn't seem like he's trying to save Dani, or he's trying to help the others. He's just trying to protect himself. And Sam seems to have so little control over his powers that whatever he does do is always by accident.

What I also feel is that we've been skirting around the issue of the plot. And the problem is that there isn't much plot here. The structure of the story goes something like this. Dani meets her fellow mutants. They try to get to know each other. Mysterious things seem to be happening, and they all seem to be related to everybody's worst fears. As the film continues, we realized that those manifestations have a connection with Dani. And then we finally learn that Dani’s greatest fear is the demon bear.

Mon: The final arc of the film is the demon bear attacking the facility and Dani is incapacitated, which leaves the rest of the team to fight off the demon bear and protect her at the same time. This brings the team together, but it brings them together more for their own survival than for the protection of Dani or for any emotional connection that they have to her.

Ron: Also, the stakes in some ways aren't very high. We are used to seeing the very formulaic superhero ending on this huge battleground, so many faceless people in danger having to be protected. And this is much smaller. The new mutants are fighting their own inner demons. And that works in some ways, but it's also not earned. Mon: I think the lack of payoff in this film comes from the fact that there is no context to what we've seen. The context always comes after the fact. We see Sam self-harming but why? We don't find out until several scenes later. We see Illyana being haunted by these scary creatures. But who are they? Why do they look like that? We don't get an answer to that. Most of the other manifestations, they do become more realistic. Whereas with Illyana’s, for some reason, it remains these otherworldly creatures.

Ron: I kept thinking that at some point, especially in the third act, that the monsters would transform into people we would see that the people who were harming her were actually real men.

Mon: Either that, or it was all in limbo, and that’s why they looked like that. But we don't know because limbo is just hinted at during the last section of the film. We get glimpses of a lot of hellfire but not much else.

Ron: The only remaining aspect of limbo in the real world is Lockheed. For the longest time, he’s just a stuffed toy and then randomly in one scene, he turns into a real dragon.

Mon: As real as bad CGI can make it, anyway.

Ron: It’s sad honestly. We love Lockheed in the comics, but also Lockheed belongs to Kitty. So, why is Lockheed here with Illyana? I don't know.

Mon: I'd argue that that was an Easter egg that didn't belong.

Ron: Yes, and seeing Lockheed look like that was super disappointing. They had three years to get this film on our screens, they couldn't fix Lockheed? They didn't actually do anything once it was filmed once it was packaged, once that first preview came out. They just put it on a shelf and waited for it to be released in theaters.

Mon: Disappointing indeed. What are the other comic book elements that you spotted in the film?

Ron: Well, when we saw Dr Reyes’ screen, we could see Essex Corp. It took me a second before I realized that Essex Corp meant Nathaniel Essex, aka Mr. Sinister.

Mon: And throughout, Dr Reyes kept hinting at how her supervisor was in charge and we knew that she was basically following his orders. Since this mysterious character is such a fan-favourite and a huge part of the X-Men comics, we were expecting, at the end, perhaps a little glimpse of the man himself?

Ron: There have been X-Men stories where Nathaniel Essex has been part of the background and then right in the very last panel, there he is standing there in all his glory. We were kind of hoping for that to happen and we waited till the end of the credits. Nothing.

Mon: The film is connected to the main X-Men film universe. There are glimpses of where these young mutants are going to be taken, and these are scenes from Logan. The corporation from which Logan rescues X-23. They were obviously hoping for a larger universe which would include the new mutants, but it never came to fruition.

Ron: Which is again making me wonder, what was the point of this film? It doesn't really give us an hoped for New Mutants 2. In fact, once they have defeated the demon bear, and they've managed to get rid of Dr Reyes, they're leaving the facility, but they have no idea where they're going. As far as they know, there's nothing around them for miles. So, what is the point?

Mon: My biggest struggle with this film is that the new mutants do not lend themselves to a film or a film trilogy. The new mutants should be a TV series.

Ron: Especially since it has a large cast of characters. And if you had added the other characters, you would have had a good number of people to follow. That'll make for great television. I'm thinking about The Gifted, which was an X-Men spinoff. Unfortunately, it was canceled after two seasons but I enjoyed it. Not everybody else did, but I did. And that showed how an X-Men story in television form could work.

Mon: The thing with the X-Men universe is that it's an expansive universe and new characters are constantly being added to it. So, you can't reproduce that universe in just a few films. While the X-Men films, some of them have been very successful, but several of the characters were underserved. Cyclops is the leader in the comics; he got short shrift in the films. Jean Grey is a very powerful character in the comics, and she spends most of her time standing and waving her arms.

While the main X-Men series can still be carried by a handful of actors, with The New Mutants, they are a group, they're a band of youngsters who spend a lot of time getting to know each other and build their friendships together. The whole point of these characters is not just that they have to explore their powers, they also have to explore their own youth. They are young people that are growing up; they need to find out who they are as people. For these characters, the film being a one off, or even if it was supposed to be a trilogy, it doesn't work. The new mutants need to have episodic stories, which were the central theme of the comics.

Ron: It shouldn't be a horror story. I understand where they were going with that. Even within the comic books, the ‘Demon Bear’ storyline does lend itself to suspense but it's also very tragic. I think we need to move away from instilling fear in the viewer, and more about instilling some hope.

Mon: I also feel like the final product didn't quite live up to the anticipation of the original previews. The first trailer that we saw, it really made it look like the classic horror stories that we are so used to seeing. They're stuck in an asylum and scary creatures are coming at them. That's not what we got.

Ron: This was ‘Jumpscares: The Mutant Movie’. Especially that Sunspot scene in the swimming pool, with him and Illyana, which never happens in the comics, and it came off as super gross.

Mon: I still can't figure out whether that was Illyana or that was his imagination.

Ron: That's what I'm saying! ;Jumpscares: The Mutant Movie’. Look, in a horror film, you can have your own kind of logic, but that logic needs to follow a certain pattern. That scene didn't follow any pattern. It seemed like just an excuse for Henry Zaga to take his clothes off, which is not necessary in this film at all. And to put him and Illyana together as a potential couple, which also didn't work because the two characters had no chemistry. And there was no reason for them to want to be together. Mon: Yes, it is just one of the many, many missteps. Surprisingly, I don't feel like this film was the worst film ever made. I would say that it was a poor choice of subject matter and poor execution.

Ron: It's not a bad film. It's just boring. It doesn't try to push any boundaries. The only area where they did something different was with the relationship between Dani and Rahne and but aside from that, the story is very limited in its scope. And for that reason, having just seen The New Mutants, we are struggling to remember parts of it. Mon: So, let us know, what did you think about the New Mutants?

Ron: You can find us on Twitter @Stereo_Geeks. Or send us an email [email protected]

Ron: We hope you enjoyed this episode. And see you next week!

Mon: The Stereo Geeks logo was created using Canva. The music for our podcast comes courtesy Audionautix.

[Continuum by Audionautix plays]

Transcription by Otter.ai and Ron.

#new mutants #x-men #marvel #stereo geeks #podcast #transcript

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