my-mt-heart

[my-mt-heart]

Norman and Melissa walking through Alexandria again to promote The Book of Carol.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

Andy and Danai were very hands-on with their involvement in their spin-off with them being a part of the production, the writing room, and even with casting. Do Norman and Melissa have that same level of involvement??

P.s. how do you feel about the marketing The Book of Carol so far?? To me they keep using the word "friends" a little too much

I don't know the specifics of McReedus' involvement other than they weigh in on the story and other decisions, which is not the same as having creative control. I trust Melissa's judgment. The more decisions she gets to make, the better, but that's why she needs others with power in her corner.

The second part of your ask is a good question for @indigoraysoflight, the Caryl fandom's resident marketing expert, but for me, the marketing feels inconsistent. We get exciting content that's offset by something we don't like or we get something we don't like quickly followed by something better to wash it down with. Either way, it's counterproductive. Confusion about what people are buying into makes them second-guess their commitment.

What happened with the o.g. spinoff broke the core audience's faith and two years later, those fans are still trying to put the pieces back together. Getting them all back for TBOC means catering to their needs and also avoiding their triggers. The marketing has been fairly unsuccessful with that so far, case in point, the friends label that keeps coming down on us like blunt-force trauma to the head [insert Negan gif].

"But MT, Carol and Daryl are friends."

Yes. But when you make a hard point of it in the promo, it means they're p o s i t i o n i n g Caryl so that viewers won't expect anything more. It's a weird choice whether you ship Caryl or not because it doesn't capitalize on the eleven seasons of deep history between them. It's the same issue I had with the line "a lady named Carol" in 105. Does this mean I'll settle for Caryl just being "friends" in S2? No. Does it confirm we aren't getting canon? No. Like I said, if we get canon by the end of 206, I know who to thank and if we don't, I know who to rip apart on my way out.

The f-bomb in the synopsis feels like the EPs are trying to force their ageist views on us hysterical shippers who keep getting in the way of their vision. It doesn't need to be there. For example, it could've been worded as...

The Walking Dead: Daryl Dixon -- The Book of Carol picks up where season one of the series left off, following fan-favorite characters Daryl Dixon (Norman Reedus) and Carol Peletier (Melissa McBride) as they both confront old demons. Carol fights to find Daryl and he struggles with remaining in France, causing tension at the Nest.

That way, you don't further gaslight a very weary fanbase about whether or not Caryl can go canon or whether or not Daryl is torn between two families.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl #shalaka how'd I do??

[my-mt-heart]

Has it been confirmed that Melissa is in s3?

Yes, she'll be in S3. That's not something anyone has to worry about. What's worrying is whether or not anyone else on that show is helping her give Carol and Daryl a good story that honors their characters. I'm not interested in Zabel's version of their spinoff.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

You said you were looking forward to hearing about Carol and Caryl from Melissa at Tribeca but I'm terrified that it will be overshadowed by all the shipbaiting and Daryl/Isabelle's connection and deepening relationship or whatever. With Zabel and likely Nicotero on the panel, and Norman who always "plays along" when it comes to shipbaiting stuff, I fear anything Melissa says will be overshadowed. If CP is there...who knows what side she's on...People are so excited and I'm just dreading it.

A lot of the promotion so far from the first Caryl photos to Melissa’s announcement at NYCC has been offset by one of the EPs (or an actor not even on the show 😒) saying something offensive, so I completely get the dread and I do worry about Zabel being on the panel in particular. That’s not what the experience is supposed to be like. It’s supposed to let the fans look forward to the show and give them exciting things to talk about while they wait. If they’re second-guessing their commitment, then someone’s doing something wrong.

The Tribeca announcement used the full title, TWD: DD:TBOC, highlighted Norman and Melissa equally and put Melissa’s name in the right billing order, so those are all small indicators that AMC wants to appeal to Caryl fans (I don’t like the synopsis, but that’s a different conversation) and hopefully also indicates that the panel will center around Norman and Melissa / Daryl and Carol. Fans’ attention usually gravitates to them anyway when they’re up there together. Melissa being there at all makes me a lot more hopeful for a good panel. If it was just the guys again, I’d be much more worried. We’ll see 🤷🏻‍♀️ Either way, I’ll have something to say.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #Daryl Dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

"The break narrative is untrue" - Thank you, I always believed it is. Everything that happend, how people acted, the PR, everything was pointing at it and I still can't believe how people bought that shit.

But doesn't it mean that AMC clearly misread her market value? That they fought for her to come back? Hope she got way more than she was offered before the drama as compensation! Still, they should kiss the ground she walks on because let's be honest, a second and third season only with Daryl? Only watching for the cinematography? They needed her.

It’s easier to believe when the person everyone is talking about is a woman and she’s in her 50’s, but that’s not how contracts work 🤷🏻‍♀️

Either they misread the market or didn’t bother to do market research at all, trusting their own biases and the word of a petty EP.

Daryl and Carol can stand on their own two feet as characters, but their stories are intrinsically woven together. It was their shared arc in S2 of the flagship show that got people’s attention and the bond that came out of that kept many people watching. You can’t capitalize on a solo show, especially one that tries to retcon that history, the way you could on a Caryl show. But having Daryl and Carol in the same show also isn’t enough. You have to lean into their chemistry, honoring the story that fans have been invested in for years.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #Daryl Dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

You said "Zabel’s intention is very clear in the sides I read, so he’s full of shit" and now I'm panicking a little bit (a lot). What exactly have you read/seen in the sides you read? Please, please, please share...I need to know what to expect. Or to know if I shouldn't bother watching at the risk of having my heart broken yet again.

Zabel’s intentions are explicitly clear, yes, but I don’t know what will make it onscreen is the problem. The shipbaiting is in the scene descriptions from Isabelle’s POV and Daryl is irritatingly ambiguous. It could end up looking and feeling very different, but Nicotero directing and that last teaser we got aren’t exactly good signs.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

i just recently finished the ep where she almost walks off the cliff and ugh my heart

melissa is incredible really after that scene when shes speaking to daryl and her eyes well up in tears. tears were in MY eyes

The cliff scene is heartbreaking because Carol believed that everyone would be at peace after she was gone. I think her conversation with Daryl on the stairwell earlier in the episode was a big contributor to that because he didn't answer her when she said she was still here. But we saw how worried he was when she didn't come back right away and then he silenced her insecurities with that hug.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

You talked about the time frame of the change of the title. Honestly, it's the biggest disrespect. I don't know what happened, if she got pushed out or if she needed a break but if she was supposed to be on the show, why call it DD?

I sincerely hope someone will ask that because it's still bs and will always be bs. If you know anyone brave enough to attend a screening or convention, please ask to ask them.

Ask about why the show is called DD? Even if that was asked, if it could be asked, we'd hear more excuses that'll only piss us off. The goal of the panel should be to build hype for TBOC, ideally by letting the two people who know the characters the best speak to their shared and individual arcs. I do need the title to change for S3 though. That's another dealbreaker for me.

(the break narrative is untrue)

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

We're always talking about shipbaiting and what it does to us as fans. Right now I'm really afraid what it would do to Carol and her "life".

Find Me hasn't left my mind and will always be present when I'm thinking of Caryl. S11 totally changed the tone of their "relationship". Before it always felt like Daryl was more drawn to Carol since her banishment than vice versa.

In S11 Carol tried to mend their rift while Daryl was kinda aloof. It was probably planned to let them finally go canon but fell totally flat because the writing of the season was hideous. (Especially with the SO chaos)

Now, we don't know what happened in the time jump but Daryl ultimately left and they haven't seen each other in months.

If Carol made the journey to France and FINDS HIM (like Leah was supposed to) and sees him with Isabelle (romantic canon or not) and finds out he had the chance to go back himself but didn't (no matter why), why would she take him back home?

That might be interesting to explore, the reverse of their roles since late S10 and S11 BUT boy, it's gonna hurt and excuse me, I don't think Zabel is socially intelligent enough to film gold like that. Let alone make actual call backs that's connecting dots.

My heart already hurts for Carol.

It's in-character for Carol to forfeit her own happiness if she thinks something or someone (else) will make Daryl happy, but we've been down that road before and I think we're all too exhausted to do it again. Daryl and Isabelle won't happen, but that's a cold, cold, cold comfort when they're baiting it relentlessly and Zabel/Nicotero can't be trusted to give Caryl fans the payoff. Bottom line, the shipbaiting is disrespectful to any character/actress being treated like a plot device, it's disrespectful to Melissa, to Carol, to Caryl, and to their fans. A Caryl spinoff should make Caryl the heart of the story. Their shared arc should center around the two of them. Supporting characters do not need to be shoved in the middle of their emotional arc.

What concerns me about TBOC is that it feels like Carol's and Daryl's arcs are uneven, I suspect because Melissa got to weigh in heavily on Carol's story while several people weighed in on Daryl (when they shouldn't have). Script leaks and teasers suggest that Carol will have a clear drive to find Daryl, but they point to shipbaiting and ambiguity in Daryl's arc which cheapens his character and undermines Carol's mission to get him back. Like you sad, it completely takes the wind out of the sails. I really hope we're in for something much better than what it looks like.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

i just need to talk about carol peletier

i want to hug and protect her pls

Not sure if there was anything specific you wanted to talk about, so I'll just improvise haha I didn't like the way Carol's story ended in S11 at all. Too much was left unspoken or "unsettled" as Melissa put it. In TBOC, I want her to have the heroine's journey that was taken away from her in S11 which means there has to be a good balance between her badass moments and her emotional moments. Expressing what she feels inside from worrying about Daryl to grieving over past losses makes me root for her more. Angst is inevitable, though I want to see her find some happiness by the end of the season. Daryl has always represented that happiness. That's why explicit canon is so important for her story.

It sounds like TBOC is screening at Tribeca on 6/8. I'm really looking forward to hearing what Melissa has to say about Carol and Caryl. She's always so insightful.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

If Norman isn't anti caryl, then why did he go along with the shipbaiting. When talking about Daryl and Isabelle, Zabel said that he hadn't originally set out to do a romance and that Norman didn't want it either....but there it is. And Melissa didn't have a problem with it? I know she didn't have a say in S1 but why would she agree to come to the mess that was left after S1 and will likely continue into S2?

Zabel's intention is very clear in the sides I read, so he's full of shit. Whether it translates onscreen, I don't know. I hope not. I wish Norman had spoken up about the shipbaiting among other things in Daryl's arc. What Melissa agreed to is different than what's been done. Again, I don't know the end result, but look at what happened to the title. Before her deal closed, the show was going to be called Raise The Dead. After, it reverted back to what was supposed to just be a working title. I know some want to believe Melissa would never be undermined, but that's what happens when you're the only woman in a position of power and the male EPs want to mark their territory. Does that mean she's powerless? That she couldn't get good storylines for Carol? No. She just deserves so much better and so do the fans.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

The broken boat and Daryl's scars are just two of many beats that were very clearly meant to be revisited in Caryl's story later and I'm still pissed we didn't get to see the payoff.

You mentioned that Daryl is hurt that Carol seemingly only came to ask him to babysit her son and I just wanted to add that I think a lot of the pain stems from knowing he's the son she adopted with another man.

I see the haircut scene as the first time in a long time that Daryl and Carol feel like they can be themselves. Despite the earlier tension, they naturally fall back into their safe space with each other. Henry sees what we see, that there's a lot more to their relationship than what they've shared with others and even with each other.

I think Daryl decides to go back to Hilltop because Henry tells him that Carol has been thinking about him the whole time after all, that she misses him, and that she came to his camp for him.

Honorable mention to the discussion at 53:15-56:56 because I completely agree:

Laura: [TBOC] is their last chance to get it right.

Shalaka: This actually is their last chance to get it right because I feel like so many people have been holding onto hope for so long and that's why when they hit you with ambiguous notes like they did with that teaser, it's so hard for me personally to get over it because that to me right there is problematic. I get that this is Carol's story to find [Daryl]. The focus needs to be on Carol's journey because we didn't get a lot of that arc. I think the frustration here comes from the fact that if they're going to shipbait the entire time that Carol is looking for him, that's going to hurt like hell. And you're not even going to be able to sit there and enjoy and bask in her return and enjoy everything we're getting with her story because the other side of it is not reciprocating the same level of longing for home. And I get that he probably doesn't know that she's there, but the longing for home needs to come through a lot stronger, and you know it's there because it's Daryl, so obviously it's there.

Laura: I think in simple terms, everything you're describing is this notion that if we don't see that kind of explicit commitment to telling their story in its full authenticity, then they're still not taking it seriously. And that's what is worrisome as a fan who's been following this journey for so long, so I hope that we see a clear shift from where it seemed to shift back after S10 because there was a point at the end of S10 where I thought canon was coming any day now and I was so sure and things just kind of take a tumble from there, so I think we want to see the undoing of that tumble.

Shalaka: The bottom line of it is that we want writing that understands [Daryl and Carol] deeply and follows through. It is hopeful to know that both Norman and Melissa are EPs with this, and I think the goal here is to make sure that because it is going to be Carol's journey, that Melissa gets what she wants with the story and as we're approaching the debut of TBOC at Tribeca, I really hope they understand what's at stake here because there's a lot at stake here.

Nine Lives Two Mics (Caryl Podcast) | New Episode

🎙️Episode #28 - A Deep Dive into Season 9 of TWD (Part 2)🎙️

Join us as we dive into Stradivarius, 9x07 of #TWD. Thanks for sending your questions!

Spotify | Youtube 

#Caryl #twd Caryl #9lives2mics #Caryl podcast #daryl dixon #norman reedus #melissa mcbride #carol peletier #carol x daryl #the book of carol

[my-mt-heart]

That's what I meant about Nicotero and Melissa's friendship. He doesn't care about her opinion and that's a lot of talking about him as a friend

if a person does not understand Daryl's character (thinking that Daryl is in love with Beth) then they obviously made it OOC. but there's also Norman who could have his word…because he has more power than Melissa had at that moment. but he allowed it too

The showrunner should listen to the actors who have played these characters for 12 years. if we doesn't even talk about the romantic canon…they made Daryl so bad that it affects Daryl and Carol's bond…if we don't feel that Daryl appreciates Carol, then her arrival becomes so pointless. It's logical on her part, Carol would have done this for Daryl. but Daryl, who doubts whether to return home or not, where his place is, doubts if his family misses him., this is not the Daryl to whom I want Carol to go across the ocean

Yeah, Daryl's motivations are fuzzy in the most frustrating way. It's a huge disservice to both his character and Carol's because they're so interconnected. I need TBOC to show me they're both committed to getting back to each other. That they will always choose each other because as far as they're concerned there is no other choice. That's the journey I've been watching unfold for years and that's where the payoff should happen.

You're right that a showrunner joining over a decade later or a PD who suddenly thinks he's a showrunner should respect not only how Norman and Melissa view their characters, but also what the core audience loves about their characters/relationship. Someone who's more interested in what the actors and characters can do for him should not have creative control.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

I have a question. why did Norman fight for adding Nicotero in the spinoff if he is anti-Caryl and Norman is not against Caryl? and what kind of influence does Nicotero have on the plot? I know some people are trying to say that Greg and Melissa have a friendship, but he always had something against her character and against Carol and Daryl. he supported Beth+Daryl and now Isabelle+Daryl…Maybe he wanted Connie and Daryl too. why is he needed in the Daryl and Carol spinoff? this is strange

I don’t know if Norman really fought for Nicotero to be part of the spinoff or not. Nicotero is the one who said that and he’s not exactly a reliable narrator 🤷🏻‍♀️ Also not saying he and Melissa didn’t have a friendship, but as far as the spinoff goes, he is definitely not on her side and he is definitely not on ours.

Nicotero’s an EP who’s been around for most of the duration of TWD and it sounds like AMC depended on him to create the look and feel of the spinoff while maintaining the original show’s integrity. I also suspect Zabel depended on him for context on the original show’s characters and storylines since he didn’t bother to do his own homework. We can judge for ourselves how well that worked out, but I think the numbers speak for themselves (the real numbers, not PR spin).

What the Caryl spinoff needs is a really good showrunner who’s actually invested in Caryl, understands their story, respects their fans, and will make sure Melissa is seen and heard the way a lead actress and EP should be. Greg Nicotero checks none of those boxes.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #Daryl Dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

MT, if Spain is true for season 3, do you think then Zabel is dropping out of the showrunner's seat? And how bad are the shipbaits that you saw? because I'm not ready for this…

The writing is "who the fuck are these characters" bad. The dialogue is off. The emotional motivations don't lean where they should. It'll probably translate differently onscreen and I don't have a lot of context, but that's a cold comfort for me right now. Again, there are reasons to hope, Melissa being my biggest reason. She wouldn't want anyone damaging Carol's story more than they already have in S11 and the shipbaiting does damage it. At the same time, I'm very wary of this season tbh, especially after that last teaser, and there's absolutely no way I can watch S3 if we don't have a new showrunner who we can trust with Caryl's story.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

It seems to me that most people involved with the show are anti-caryl (showrunner, EP's, NR, probably AMC). So that leaves Melissa all by herself to fight for this ship? It's just not screaming caryl canon. What if Melissa had to just settle for something in between? Not Caryl but also not Darabelle, and just a deepening of their friendship and healing their traumas? The marketing would stay #TWDCaryl because they want us to watch. But we'll inevitably be disappointed yet again...

Gimple and Greg Nicotero are anti-Caryl. Zabel cares about pleasing them and servicing his original characters. AMC and Norman are not anti-Caryl. Deepening Caryl's friendship does nothing to move the story forward. Melissa and Caryl fans shouldn't have to settle for less than what they've earned. My ideal situation is that S2 explicitly establishes Daryl's and Carol's romantic feelings for each other, emphasizing that they're each other's first and only choice, and AMC brings on a new showrunner for S3 who can actually write a good story for Caryl in a canon relationship, respect what Melissa wants, and make Caryl fans (aka the core audience of the show) happy. Likely or not, that's what I need to keep watching the show. I love Daryl and Carol so much and it'll hurt too much to see their story get ruined by EPs who don't give a shit.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #norman reedus #the book of carol #twd caryl

[my-mt-heart]

How do you know that Melissa is pro caryl in the romantic sense? I hope it’s not rude to ask this. If it is you can totally delete this ask and thank you so much for everything you do for the community! <3

Because of numerous conversations I've had with close sources. She knows how important romantic canon is for both Carol's and Daryl's stories.

#caryl #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #daryl dixon #the book of carol #twd caryl