#and a lot of Rhaenyra's bad political decisions are understandable because of her youth and because viserys does fuck all to prepare her

[ladyalicentshightower]

I think people overestimate how feminist team black is. If someone brings up how Baela should be the heir to Driftmark, it's always "she would've been Queen if not for the Greens!", ignoring that 1, she would be Queen consort, not a Queen in her own right, and 2 she has a legitimate claim in her own right to Driftmark. Team Black's goal is to crown Rhaenyra, but Rhaenyra becoming Queen isn't a win for feminism because it does nothing to dismantle the rest of the patriarchal system that exists in Westeros. From what we've gotten so far, it reads that Rhaenyra wants to be the exception and not the rule. Rhaenyra has made a lot of bad political decisions, which means she can't acknowledge Baela's claim because it would weaken her own claim (blatantly admitting her eldest sons are illegitimate would not end well for her to say the least). So she betrothes Jace and Luke to Baela and Rhaena to kind of atone for that, like as a consolation prize Baela will be Queen and Rhaena will be lady of Driftmark, neither of them would hold either title in their own right. It's good matches because the kids like each other and will treat each other well, but it's not a feminist win or a feministic liberation. It's usurpation, usurpation that takes place because Rhaenyra has to do damage control after having illegitimate children and after a serious of bad political decisions (both hers and her fathers, Viserys is the arbiter of this entire mess). To me, Rhaenyra is very reminiscent of Mary Queen of Scots, I can see a lot of elements drawn from Mary's history in Rhaenyra's story and character, down to their sons eventually taking the crown they failed to claim/keep.

#hotd #hotd spoilers #house of the dragon #house of the dragon spoilers #Rhaenyra targaryen critical #I'm going to do a rewatch prior to season 2 & I'm going to analyse the bad political decisions from vis & Rhaenyra that lead to the dance #like by no means the only factors at play lets not forget otto daemon larys etc #but it's an interesting factor that the fandom doesn't really acknowledge #and a lot of Rhaenyra's bad political decisions are understandable because of her youth and because viserys does fuck all to prepare her #like even if she wasn't who he choose as heir she should've been given a better political education as a princess #but vis fails his most of his other four kids in that regard to #i mean he also fails to acknowledge them or remember them but anyways #he is a huge part of the reason aegon and aemond became he they did #props to whoever probably alicent for sending daeron to oldtown so he could grow up well adjusted #alicent: i'm writing a letter to daeron is there anything you would like to say to him? #viserys: daemon? why are you writing to daemon? #alicent: daeron? #viserys: who? #alicent: our son? the one you sent to squire in oldtown? #viserys: i think i'd remember if we had a son who's name was one letter different to my brothers #viserys: in fact i do alicent do you mean the one who lost an eye? #alicent: *screaming internally* #viserys targaryen #king viserys #rhaenyra is such an interesting character but i hate how the fandom sanctified her because how dare characters be complex and have flaws #like you dont have to justify their actions or bend over backwards to deny their faults to like a character you know 😭 #and the same thing is done to daemon who is far more fucked up and far more flawed in the show than the fandom allows #i hate the team stuff tho i get hbo going for it as a marketing move that was genius but my god are certain stans insufferable #the entire point of the dance is that its a pointless tragedy there's no good or bad side theyre both awful in their own ways #but thats a longer rant for another time outside of the tags

[horizon-verizon]

People say how in the show they don't understand why daenyra should love each other. I agree that it was bland and their characters plain. However, I never shipped daemyra in the books. And I'm one of people who considered them mostly a marriage of convenience. I don't mean they didn't care about each other but it seemed to me that they simply united their families after they lost their previous spouses. It is logical and practical. Maybe this life scenario is so routine for me in my real life that such story doesn't touch me. And I watched a lot of mediocre shows with the same drama built on: they loved each other in their youth, then they got separated, built separate lifes, then met in 3-5-10 years, felt some spark for each other and then somehow got together (their previous SO divorced or cheated in them or died). Add this all Daemon's later rumored cheating and salacious rumors completely turned me off. Just my imho.

By "routine", do you mean to say political, practical arranged marriages? And as such, their marriage (which you think was only for practical and political protection/convenience and power) is so normalized for you in your real experience/culture that it's whatever? Not special, so therefore not one of love and affection?

A)

Well anon, you kind of played yourself. If you say their marriage was one of just convenience and then point out that Rhaenyra and Daemon fulfill this "they love each other in their youth...somehow got together" trope....you've just told me and everyone that they did love each other.

B)

I'm going to have to disagree with the very notion that they weren't in love just because you see a political convenience in their marriage.

Aegon (III), Rhaenyra and Daemon's first son, was born the same exact year Harwin, Laena and Laenor all died (120 A.C., the Year of the Red Spring) He was also born later into the year, which means Rhaenyra was likely pregnant with Aegon in the early year....which means that she and Daemon were definitely having a sexual relationship while all their lovers/spouses already mentioned were alive.

And yes, just as you said, they have had a closer connection with each other than with anyone else in their lives (that started platonic and familial, but still closer than with others) since Rhaenyra was a child. We have two points in the timeline: first before Daemon ever left for the Stepstones:

Princess Rhaenyra was also enamored of her uncle, for Daemon was ever attentive to her. Whenever he crossed the narrow sea upon his dragon, he brought her some exotic gift on his return.

("A Question of Succession")

and the second times after he comes back. (These quotes are more for me than for you, but they are still helpful to keep everything together).

So again, they had an emotional connection since forever, so why don't you admit and keep consistent with the "revelation" that love and affection was involved in their decision to marry? That it goes beyond "caring"?

C)

You say this:

And I watched a lot of mediocre shows with the same drama built on: they loved each other in their youth, then they got separated, built separate lifes, then met in 3-5-10 years, felt some spark for each other and then somehow got together (their previous SO divorced or cheated in them or died).

So, you assessed Rhaenyra and Daemon's relationship solely based on how you hated the semblances of such from other shows without really paying attention to the text and events in Fire and Blood. You stopped actually seeing things when you saw the use of a pattern you just disliked, rather than actually seeing how/if they have important variations.

(Just as an aside, these two borrow a little from and subvert these tropes: the "super trope" Forbidden Love and its subtropes Secret Relationship, Childhood Friend Romance, Dating What Daddy Hates, and Good Adultery/Bad Adultery)

It sounds like you just dislike this pattern/trope in general media so you decided to disregard Daemyra from the jump. Especially after I already pointed out to you the evidence against you and your own self-contradiction.

Then you say:

Add this all Daemon's later rumored cheating and salacious rumors completely turned me off.

So now you don't like them for Daemon's rumored cheating. So, rumors equal truth? It looks like you really believe that he cheated on Rhaenyra. Which implies that he slept with Mysaria without her being okay with it or giving her permission.

Or that you think Daemon and Nettles were definitely a thing, and no they weren't. Popularity of an idea does not equal truth.

You may even just dislike Daemon from believing him to be a groomer, pedophile, or really overall a sexual predator of young children. So it may be that this is why you may think him capable of cheating on Rhaenyra just because you may think he supposedly grew tired of her and her older self like how people joke about Leonardo DiCaprio breaking up with his girlfriends after they turn 25. When again, the text and canon disproves that. (Again, this is on the condition that you believe this.) Never mind the sociopolitical context, which la-pheacienne points out HERE.

So it's not really about Rhaenyra and Daemon's actual relationship, but more about how you dislike what you named as a particular romance pattern in media. It sounds like you like very simple, uncomplicated, easy-going sort of romantic relationships depicted in your media.

That's fine until you deny facts or strong evidence to claim people are not in love or have strong feelings for each other at all. Then it's just prejudice. And you're probably better off watching/reading stories that aren't heavy with layers and layers of meaning or events and implications, contradictory explanations which you have to sift through for the truth, stories written by or through an unreliable narrator with biases you may not catch, etc.

Or maybe get your hands on more and more books with unreliable narrators and practice understanding context, text, and subtext as well as get into the habit of comparing rumors against the situation apart from those rumors.

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #fire and blood comment #fire and blood #daemyra #rhaenyra and daemon #rhaenyra i #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #daemon and nettles #characterization #daemon's characterization #rhaenyra's characterization #asoiaf asks to me #mysaria and daemon