#and the whole ''sappho loved men'' argumnent is like .

[hydrostorm]

(cw) i lied about no discourse..

theres just so much fallacy from what I've seen about "m/spec" l/esbian d/iscourse, first that nonbinary people "should be included" in lesbianism as if nb people haven't always been a part of lesbianism both historically as the term found its place in lgbt and up to now where nonbinary lesbians have basically always been a thing, and whenever it goes into the territory of whether men should be included in lesbianism i always just respond with a resounding Lesbianism Should Not Be About Or Involve Men In Any Way

tags important

#it feels like people are just being ahistorical in two very different ways when they argue those things #like ignoring the nonbinary-ness that was already present in lesbianism and also trying to say stuff like #''but trans men were lesbians'' ''many lesbians were bi'' ''sappho loved men'' #it becomes clear they dont know what those things mean lol. in the 60s lesbian was not used as it is now #like people were literally just figuring out what any of those terms meant and their meanings continued to evolve #and the whole ''sappho loved men'' argumnent is like . #literally just identify as sapphic then LIKE?? #there is a good reason why lesbian has become to mean someone with no attraction to men #this kind of discourse matters because men already constantly invade womens spaces (Not talking about trans women.) #(i partially am referring to stuff like trans men hitting on lesbians and other men who hit on lesbians bc they heard about bi lesbians) #(both of which are things i have seen with my eyes both online and irl dating apps) #and it also really shows when the people who talk about this the loudest are people who arent lesbian or people who are chronically online #cw discourse #i feel like i tried for a while to see where these people were coming from but there's not really much that makes sense about what they #tend to argue #i can understand that lesbians can be transphobic and terfs or otherwise exclude nonbinary people #but instead of arguing how disrespectful it is to ignore the role nb people had in pioneering lesbian culture #they decide to try and annex nonbinary onto lesbianism by saying stuff like ''mspec lesbian'' #like it just doesnt track to me. i am not a part of that echo-chamber i think they are too far into an online discourse pov? /gen #for the longest time i was like ''maybe theres something im not getting'' #but every time im exposed to their points im like. respectfully i think youre not getting it