#canoncrit jaune

[kitkatopinions]

Umm about my ask about yang being a terrible sister

I meant it as a "what if yang was acknowledged as a terrible sister and her not caring about ruby was caller out and pointed as a flaw"

I am aware she's a pretty bad sibling to ruby

Ahh, sorry. You mean like, how would I feel if she was acknowledged as a terrible sister in the show itself? Sorry if this is another misinterpretation, just let me know! But if it isn't, I think it'd be really good if the lack of care and the bad sibling behavior was called out in the show itself!

What I really want to have happen is that RWBYJ get back to Vacuo (I'm begging and praying for no time-skip in Remnant) and after the initial adrenaline of not being dead hits, Ruby starts icing out WBYJ. (I'll get to Yang specifically in a second, but I do want to talk about more than Yang here so please bear with me!) Maybe Ruby doesn't do it on purpose, or maybe she feels guilty about it, but instead of working with them as a team, she starts leaning more heavily on Nora, Oscar, and Ozpin and Qrow since we know she doesn't want to be the leader anymore and it would be natural for her to have grown more appreciative of their sometimes flawed but clearly trying methods (especially after the Tree God basically sang Hannah Montana's Everyone Makes Mistakes to get Ruby to be not-suicidal anymore.) Side note, but I think after Neo, now would be a good time to have Ruby start to be more in the 'trying to redeem villains' camp, which could lead to her trying and struggling around Emerald due to her having killed Penny, and her and Emerald agreeing that they should try to get Mercury on their side but Ruby is also doubtful of that and struggling with that because Mercury stopped her from saving Penny when Emerald killed Penny. That's just a side note, though, because there is so much for Ruby as a character to do and to experience in Vacuo if there isn't a time-skip that I feel like a lot of stuff would need to be set up in V10 with payoff coming in V11. Anyway, onto the rest of WBYJ.

I think having Weiss clearly recognize the problem and try to bridge the gap with understanding and listening to Ruby would make sense with how she was characterized in V9, but that it would also make sense for her to be caught up in drama regarding Winter and more specifically her auraless underage newly homeless little brother, so I'd like Ruby to warm to her more by the end of the season, they'd still be clearly not quite on track still. With Blake, this is going to sound bad, but I kind of want Blake to not really notice or care that Ruby is icing her out. They've had like one one-on-one conversation and only one meaningful moment between the two of them since volume one, and although I think V1-5 Blake actually did want to be Ruby's friend and just didn't communicate it well, Blek kind of just sees her as a girl she admires but doesn't know well. I feel like in order to try to bridge the gap between Blake and Blek (which I feel like they should really try to do since V10 features Vacuo where Sun is and might also feature Ilia and Blake's parents) then they should start by acknowledging that Ruby and Blake aren't really friends. Having Blake be caught up in her own thing (the return of Sun, trying to help the Atlas/Mantle refugees, possibly assisting Faunus in Vacuo,) and that resulting in her not really trying to be there for Ruby just makes sense to me, and I say that with love for Blake and hope for who Blek could be in my heart. She and Ruby aren't friends, I think that should be acknowledged. As for Jaune, I feel like Jaune should undergo a little mini arc of trying to act like nothing has changed for him and everything is back to normal, but needing to deal with the natural changes like him not knowing his old team well (focusing more on his relationship with Ren because as I mentioned, Nora would be a bit more focused on Ruby as a character,) not doing well with being part of a group, other problems like that, and that includes that he knows he should be closer to Ruby but now doesn't really know how to talk to her especially because she's acting different than he remembers.

Now to get to Yang: I think that whereas Weiss is aware of the problems with Ruby and trying to do the right thing thus causing Ruby to warm up to her but she's still preoccupied, and Blake isn't really aware of the problems with Ruby and is preoccupied... Yang's next arc should be focused more on her family. She can still have little moments with Blake so it doesn't feel like they just kissed and that's it (though I really think it would only be natural for their relationship to be thrown off kilter after the events of V9 which is something that should take time to resolve,) but Yang should be trying to act like nothing even happened and then get frustrated when Ruby starts acting cold and absent towards her, and frustrated by Ruby starting to rely more on Ozpin and Qrow (Yang being the one who seemed to have the biggest problem with them.) Yang trying to talk to Ruby about her cutting them off and acting like Ozpin (or Ironwood lol) could result in an actual fight between them, with Ruby telling Yang that she doesn't understand how Ruby feels, Yang saying that Ruby needs to talk to her, and Ruby countering that she has verbalized things and Yang just doesn't listen. Frustrated and angry, Yang could leave and try to find Weiss, who acknowledges that she doesn't think they were very good friends to Ruby and it's on them to bridge the gap, and Yang could be like "she's the one that yelled at us, not the other way around" and Weiss could then be like "Really, Yang? You don't think the things Ruby said were a tiny bit justified?" And maybe relate to Ruby's troubles or even compare Yang and Ruby's relationship to her trying to get back a good relationship with Whitley ("I ignored my brother's struggles because it was easy and I was too caught up in my own problems to even notice he was hurting too, and our fighting got so bad, it took him practically saving Nora's life for me to realize I was wrong about him, and now I have so much time to make up for! I don't want that for you and Ruby.") It could call back to Weiss and Yang's conversation about Blake in V5, it could lead to Yang really reflecting on her past actions, and then in V11 or something, it could lead to a whole big emotional reconciliation.

Basically, I think that the only way to properly move forward without ruining the relationships further is to lean on the natural consequences of what happened and make Ruby and WBYJ essentially... Not friends anymore, and have them have to get that friendship back. It's much easier done with Weiss who actively seemed to at least make an effort with Ruby in V9 (despite the horrible finish after Ruby got back from the Tree,) and I think Blake and Ruby need to have a bit of time before actually starting to be real friends FOR THE FIRST TIME because I feel like the lack of care in their dynamic has led to them feeling like strangers, and I think Jaune... Might be a lost cause atm, who knows. But with Yang, I think we need messy call outs, fights, crying, anger, and time for her to think things through, in order to get her and Ruby back on track. I definitely think that Yang's lack of care in Volume nine should be called out in the show itself.

#rwde #canoncrit yang xiao long #canoncrit blake belladonna #canoncrit jaune arc

[marrow-minded]

"we're team leaders now jaune! we cant afford to fail. we have to put our teammates first and ourselves second!"

i used to really like this scene because i feel like it really highlighted rubys "simple soul" thing she was SUPPOSED to have as well as just being a sweet moment between jaune and ruby that reminded the audience that theyre best friends

but now? nine volumes deep, im sitting her racking my brain for any moment ruby or jaune have ever taken a blow that actually did lasting damage to them?

blake was stabbed by adam and had to confront him multiple times. weiss was slapped by her father, had to save herself from an abusive situation, and was impaled. ren had to confront the literal demons from his past. nora electrocuted herself to the point of severe scarring in a form of self harm. yang lost her whole arm and had to confront her deadbeat mother, the source of a lot of trauma, and she and blake had to murder a man in self defense. pyrrha fucking DIED.

im not saying that ruby and jaune have gone through EMOTIONAL or MENTAL struggles but i cant think of a time ruby or jaune have really put their team first and themselves second in any sense especially a physical or mental sense

ruby never met or encountered adam, its unclear if she was even aware that adam was a problem or was killed by her teammates. weiss is a capable women who can rescue herself but ruby never seems in a rush or a hurry or even that WORRIED about her or blake or even yang during vol 4/5. jaune knew about rens backstory and yet they just HAD to walk this way when going through the entire continent (instead of, idk, hopping a train to argus and then to haven?) jaune never once seems to reach out towards nora, they dont even act like theyre friends, he barely says anything to ren. ruby LEFT her sister alone with a neglectful father, and again, doesnt seem to even know about what yang went through, doesnt even seem to ask or care or for the two of them to even at like sisters even more (shown by how ruby sort of just stares and lets yang fall to her supposed death when miss girl can basically fly). pyrrhas death is often cited as manpain for JAUNE when actually in my opinion, she died moreso for RUBY; ruby is the one that gets a deus ex upgrade witnessing pyrrhas death whereas jaunes actions dont really change post pyrrha (he was already pushing himself to train and sort of grow up before pyrrha died, he just continues that trajectory in honor of her. if anything, pennys second death is the one that just there for jaunes manpain and development and that was infinitely more contrived and useless than pyrrhas death, which meant something)

maybe im just not remembering but have ruby or jaune ever suffered physically? have they ever shoulders a great and terrible burden so that their friends could live in peace even a moment longer? do they check up on their friends in any meaningful way that exemplifies their role even now as a LEADER? have they ever put themselves first and their teammates second

#rwde #canoncrit ruby rose #canoncrit jaune arc #like why do ruby and jaune not feel like leaders anymore

[kitkatopinions]

You know I gotta ask for Pyrrha lol

Yeah, Pyrrha for the ask game, let's go.

1: sexuality headcanon

I like to headcanon Pyrrha as a biromantic demisexual.

2: otp

Gonna have to say Pyrrha x Weiss for this one, but Pyrrha x Blake is a close second! Pyrrha and Weiss just have great potential as romantic partners, and their first season clips together so easily read as Weiss having a crush on Pyrrha and Pyrrha being like "Oh pretty disaster girl, I can fix you." XD

3: brotp

Pyrrha and Nora! I already talked about them recently, but they could be such close friends!

4: notp

Can I say 'anything involving a Jaune harem?' I don't mind Pyrrha x Jaune on its own if it's done well (in a way that doesn't treat Pyrrha as the prize to be won or Jaune's cheerleader,) but every time I see some Jaune x Pyrrha, Weiss, Blake, Ruby, Neo, Glynda, Willow, Cinder all at the same time any of that... Ugh. That's so embarrassing.

5: first headcanon that pops into my head

I saw a fanart once of Pyrrha and Neptune as kids together living in Argus, and now I love the headcanon that they went to combat school together and actually know each other pretty well. (Of course, in my headcanons, Neptune isn't nearly as sucky. XD) Oh wait, no, I want to talk about Pyrrha's parents! Because the whole monument to Pyrrha seems like something Pyrrha really wouldn't want, I've started headcanoning that her parents were the ones who fought to get that statue made but that they both never really listened to Pyrrha and had kind of pushed her all the time growing up, and were sort of similar to pageant parents. So even though Pyrrha loved them, she also had very complicated feelings towards them, and felt like they didn't know her well, which made her very eager to establish a found family at Beacon (and to latch onto possible mentor/parental figures.)

6: favorite line from this character

"I'll do it. If you believe this will help humanity, then I will become your fall maiden." This line is so good at further establishing what we already know about Pyrrha. She's trusting, she's a follower, she's kind, she's good, she wants to do the right thing because it's the right thing, she doesn't even ask for an explanation because when someone tells her that people need help and this will help, she jumps in with both feet before even thinking through the implications. It's both a sign of some flaws (it's pretty naive to trust people just because they're your teachers and some guy, it's pretty reckless to let people do experiments on you without even asking very many questions,) and proof of her deep goodness and her good intentions. Also I like to think that Pyrrha looked at Amber and felt a connection to her, something drawing her to Amber, and felt like she understood Amber in that moment even though they'd never met, and then her being so willing to take on that power and that responsibility was also for Amber and for her legacy. (Side note, the concept of Amber is slept on both in the show and in the fandom.)

7: one way in which I relate to this character

We both seem to be attracted to disaster people? Lol. But in all seriousness, I feel like I do share some minor similarities to her like her tendency to be protective (I will break his legs) and her over-polite awkwardness and slight passive aggressive tendencies. XD

8: thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character

The romance with Jaune. As I said before, I don't mind Arkos in theory. But the way it's done in canon? Gross tbh. They more or less invented Pyrrha for Jaune, made the majority of her story revolve around him, didn't give her real connections with other characters, used her death to prop up his character in a very fridgey way without letting anyone else grieve, and in volume six they gave her a tribute she wouldn't have wanted to remind everyone of how sad Jaune is... And Pyrrha never got any song that wasn't about her feelings for Jaune. Yikes!

9: cinnamon roll or problematic fave?

One of the only cinnamon rolls left in this show! Pyrrha may have her minor flaws, but by and large, she's a good person who tries to treat everyone well (except for Cardin the bigoted asshole bully which is a good thing) and she spent her life trying to help everyone. Rip that Pyrrha never got to connect with Penny because they would've been the ultimate cinnamon roll redhead duo.

#some minor #rwde #canoncrit Jaune Arc

[kitkatopinions]

Some speculation on V9 based on the trailer below the keep reading.

I always knew that ‘five year time skip Yang while everyone else stays the same age’ was a long shot, but if we get time skip Jaune instead, I’m gonna flip my lid.

People are speculating that this might be Jaune and that he might’ve wound up a bit out of time and have gone through a little mini-time skip, and I actually think it’s possible. And there’s... Some slight interest, there, but at the same time! If anyone was getting a time skip, it should’ve been Yang.

The perks of five year time skip Yang: 1. Yang is leveled up, the others are now low key playing catch up to keep up to her level, which not only gives the audience some cool impressive fighting, but makes Ruby and the others challenge themselves on their own combat experience. 2. Yang being more cynical and jaded and mature now makes her a contrast to the rest of her more naïve team, thus making their team more balanced, and it makes her a more distinctive character to break out of some of the ‘hivemind’ tendencies. 3. Immediate consequences to their actions that they’ll have to deal with, yet not immediately going straight to Vacuo so the writers can get a bit of a break between action if they want it. 4. Team RWBY stays in focus with the interpersonal conflicts relying mainly on them struggling with all the changes Yang has gone through, while Jaune stays a bit more in the background and is going through it, but isn’t the priority for either his friends or for the viewer. 5. They want RWBYJNOR to be its own unit doing all the work and they berate anyone outside of the team (or tbh, outside of Team RWBY + Jaune) who dares challenge them? Well, there, a ready mentor/guide figure in the form of older Yang, who is not only knowledgeable of the Island and how it works after being stuck there for a hot minute, but she’s also got knowledge of Remnant and has had tons of time to reflect on any mistakes and how she wishes things had gone. And Ruby might actually listen to her. 6. If there’s anyone from Atlas/Mantle who got knocked off the bridge and have formed some kind of force or community with Yang, that gives us a cool new angle for Yang as a leader and the emphasis can be put on how the rest of the team feels about seeing the change and seeing Yang interacting with these people she’s actually known longer than they’ve known HER (for Blake and Weiss, I mean, not for Ruby.)

Now let’s go through the downsides of a time skip Jaune! 1. Jaune is leveled up, the others are now playing catch-up to Jaune, which would make Jaune freaking ‘already steals the spotlight and the development and the ‘leader’ angle from Ruby” Arc as strong as or STRONGER than the main female protagonist who is supposed to be the kickass leader. 2.  Jaune being more cynical and jaded and mature now makes him a contrast to the more naïve Team RWBY, who either challenge him and it turns into a ‘you’re wrong and we’re great and we don’t need to change’ spiel (which is long past getting old and would be frustrating,) or even worse, they have to learn from him. Either way, it’d be bad. 3. Immediate consequences to their actions that they’ll have to deal with, yet not immediately going straight to Vacuo so the writers can get a bit of a break between action if they want it. This is still mostly the same, but wait, because the next point is worse! 4.  Jaune stays in focus with the interpersonal conflicts relying mainly on Team RWBY struggling with all the changes Jaune has gone through, which would make him a much bigger priority in the season and probably take too much screen time from the others, who all sorely need development. 5. They want RWBYJNOR to be its own unit doing all the work and they berate anyone outside of the team (or tbh, outside of Team RWBY + Jaune) who dares challenge them? Well, now JAUNE would be the one who is slotted to be a potential mentor figure who has knowledge of the Island and knowledge of Remnant and has had time to reflect on past mistakes, blah blah blah. And if he isn’t slotted into a mentor-ish role and is instead played as an antagonist, that’ll be like the fifth time the writers have done ‘ally turned antagonist’ and they kinda suck at that tbh and have ever since the Fall of Beacon, so. 6. If there’s anyone from Atlas/Mantle who got knocked off the bridge and have formed some kind of force or community with Jaune, then yeah, we’d get superman Leader Jaune fearless guy making the calls and directing people. And I don’t freaking want that.

Like, all of that is just one big ‘No thank you’ from me. Just to clarify, there’s no reason right now to just assume that we will get a timeskip Jaune. This post is just to talk about why I would hate that if we did get it, and how disappointed I’d be that we’d get it instead of a much cooler, better five year time skip Yang that I wanted so much.

#rwde #anti rwby #canoncrit jaune arc

[kitkatopinions]

Hi! I hope you don't mind me sharing this, but I feel like you're someone who would understand and I need it off my chest - I used to really like Jaune, but now his character in the show feels more and more like Miles' self-insert on a level that makes me uncomfortable. He went from being a pure sweetheart and interesting break from how alike characters are usually written (he wasn't just a dumb comic relief and it was nice) to something that feels like forced fifth member of team RWBY that leads a lot of plot solely because the writer decided so. I'm so sad about his "development"...

Thank you for your patience and please feel free to not respond to this, if you don't feel like responding.

Thanks for your thoughts and your blog. It makes me feel less alone and less threatened in a fandom that somehow turns awfully aggressive on any even slightly critical opinions. Have a wonderful day!

Hey, I don't mind at all! I'm happy to provide a place to talk about this sort of thing. Hit me up with messages any time! I know this fandom can be hard to traverse, but it’s really nice to hear that my blog has had a positive impact for you!

Jaune is a hard character for me. I really enjoy a lot of his character, but I really hate how he's handled and given so much more of a role than many of the RWBY girls.

RWBY criticism and Jaune criticism under the keep reading, though it’s kinda more of canoncrit Jaune than anything else.

In his early seasons, Jaune was a Nice Guy with a lot of problems and some annoying moments, but he also had so much potential and had a clearly good heart. One of Jaune's best moments in my opinion is when Pyrrha offers to help train him, and while he's completely in the wrong and letting his pride take over in that conversation, his "I'm tired of being the loveable idiot stuck in the tree while his friends fight for their lives" was such a good sentiment.

The thing about Jaune in the early seasons was that we got to see some growth. Things like him being a bad leader, being selfish, being proud... I feel like that was addressed at least in some way as a bad thing and traits he did have to work through. I would've preferred to see the process of that growth more personally (so long as it didn't take away from the actual Team RWBY,) but it was still better than most of the ‘growth’ we supposedly get for other characters. I get that Jaune's really flawed character with a lot of problems was not appealing to everyone, but I liked that he was flawed and had a lot of room to grow and things to work with, and I did like his dorky, Ron Stoppable kind of behavior. Now if he had ever recognized out loud that he had been a Nice Guy who should've left Weiss alone... That would be better. But still, on the whole, an enjoyable character.

But, the fact that he was the only one who I felt like got time to grieve and be angry about his losses during the Fall of Beacon was really frustrating. And then no matter how understandable, his grief over Pyrrha manifesting in so much anger did get frustrating too. And it felt like he got more focus than Ruby in Volume 4 while Yang wasn’t given much attention at all. And then Jaune during the Haven fight felt kinda forced enough in the dialogue and how Cinder technically should’ve thrashed and killed him with how behind he still was, how powerful she was meant to be, and the fact that apparently only one person can attack at a time while everyone else has to stand there. And then the whole Pyrrha statue thing was badly done and just put more emphasis on how her death has only been used to prop up Jaune and was never about her in any way... Considering the statue was of Pyrrha I-Don’t-Want-To-Be-Put-On-A-Pedestal Nikos who wanted people to stop idolizing her and acting like she was a dream girl and just treat her like a person, and they literally made an oversized statue of her on a pedestal and the framing is of her standing over Jaune and him looking up at her.

This season also kind of kickstarts Jaune’s role as mediator, which is something that could’ve been good, but something Ruby could’ve been given or something that could’ve been used as a smaller role alongside more emphasis on Ruby in some other way like making her more of a planner instead of Jaune, since he’s also the only one who can come up with things like with the completely unnecessary steal-a-plane plot, 

In volume seven, I had a lot of hope for Jaune. He was a smaller role in V7, he took smaller jobs, he wasn’t as involved... I have my own problems with how his team was used like how Nora was pushed as the revolutionary who wanted to help Mantle while Blake went out dancing and how Nora and Ren’s relationship was done and how it was given focus over Blake and Yang’s relationship actually going anywhere. There were also problems though, about how it seemed like they were pushing him towards more of a jock thing and being ‘hot’ now and quipping at Ironwood, but he was still overall... Fine, in volume seven. Not great, nothing stand out, but fine.

But volume eight, man. Why are they pushing this ‘Jaune is a fearless superman’ thing? Why are they making it so Jaune can’t actually argue with Ren and is instead the one trying to get him and Yang of all people to stop being irrational? Why did they have Jaune the one actually helping people in Mantle and have him be the one trying to talk around the Ace Ops and being logical, and going into the Whale. And his team was the team that got to take down Ironwood. And then the straw that broke the camel’s back was most of the supposed mains being dropped from the finale in order for Jaune to get more of the focus including Penny’s last moments and then getting launched into the next season along with only the main four and Neo, separated from all the other characters.

Jaune has always taken time away from Ruby. While her first season troubles with Weiss are resolved on the first day of school, Jaune’s problems with his team took episodes of focus. Jaune got a lot of focus on his stupid forced love triangle in the dance arc, while Ruby waited around doing nothing more than wanting Blake to go (and doing nothing to get her there) and disliking her shoes until she saw Cinder. So on and so forth. it wasn’t surprising when he got all this extra focus in V8, but it was still frustrating.

What made things hard to bear though was that Jaune really is pushed into a ‘perfect’ role lately. He’s fearless! He’s got moms thirsting after him without even trying! He only ever keeps his head and he talks Winter into being logical! He’s a planner, mediator, fighter, leader, and a healer! And I mean, just look at this!

The problem is that Jaune is a much stronger character than Ruby, he’s been given so much more growth than her, and that’s really frustrating. But it’s also pretty clear to me that the writers act like they consider his growing to be over and are treating him like he’s perfect now. His goofiness and even his sharp-wittedness is much less prevalent, he’s not allowed to really fight with his friends, he’s not allowed to be wrong, he’s not allowed to take a backseat now and then, he’s not even allowed to feel fear anymore! How much less relatable can he be considering that he doesn’t even feel fear? Killing Penny and getting dropped into V9 just proved what we all already know, that the writers - subconsciously or not - see him as a major role and a main protagonist, and they don’t want their main protagonists to be flawed.

If this show wasn’t meant to be about four kickass women, this wouldn’t be as much of a problem for me. Yes, it would be frustrating that Jaune feels like the writers don’t want him to ever have any problems anymore and that his more dorky and awkward tendencies aren’t as present anymore, but like I said, Jaune isn’t a bad character! He has good moments consistently, what he does usually at least makes sense and there’s good reason behind it even if I don’t personally like it, and he’s honestly one of the best written and most consistent characters in the show. But he’s not the protagonist, he’s not supposed to be so center stage, he isn’t supposed to be a stronger leader than Ruby, he isn’t supposed to be the hero who gets all the big moments with these baddies and is doing the important stuff. That’s supposed to be Ruby. He’s constantly outstripping not only members of Team RWBY in general, but the main protagonist.

The show markets itself as being about woman characters. It markets itself as being about Ruby, Weiss, Blake, and Yang. It’s called RWBY, and not JNPR (with Oscar Pine growing to replace Pyrrha.) The merchandise is all red, white, black, and yellow themed, and Team RWBY are the ones center stage in the official art and the album covers and they get their special renders. And yet the show constantly treats Jaune as more of a main protagonist than Ruby, and the same can be said for Oscar now.

If Jaune isn’t a straight up self-insert of Miles, he’s still obviously an author’s pet, whereas characters like Blake feel like they’re not even cared about. I like Jaune, I like him a lot, but it’s incredibly frustrating to see how he’s been used by the writers who often act like they wish they could’ve left Team RWBY behind in volume three.

#rwde #anti jaune arc #canoncrit jaune arc #rwby bashing #rwby criticism #anti rwby #rwby hate

[kitkatopinions]

I'm firmly convinced that Jaune was meant to be Ozpin's next host. It makes sense within the plot. Jaune comes from a long line of heroes. Ozpin overlooks his fake transcripts to enter Beacon. Not to mention he's based on Joan of Arc who was known for hearing the voice of God in her head. Add that to the disproportionate focus Jaune got in the early volumes. But the backlash for him changed their minds and they made Oscar. But instead of replacing Jaune outright he was kept and became redundant.

I can one hundred percent get on board with this theory. But if the theory is true, then the writers are knuckleheads.

I mean, we already know that. But if this theory was true, then it means that they looked at criticism that boiled down to "if this show is supposed to be a kickass girl power show with four main female leads, why are we spending more time with this dude than ninety percent of the women in the show" and their response was "what if we brought in a different boy to dictate the plot instead, but this time with cuter eyes... And also freckles?"

And then, as you say, they don't actually have much for Jaune to do. After grieving Pyrrha, Jaune doesn't have a personal goal to strive to or a personal hat in this fight. That's a complaint that I have with a lot of the RWBY characters though, it's not a Jaune exclusive problem. However, unlike other characters in this show, I think the writers are itching to give Jaune another arc that's tied to personal problems that gives him a hat in this fight, what with the death of Penny and him getting thrown into the void with the girls. Here's where the writers are kind of showing me that they don't even know how to write for Jaune, though, because we've... We've been there before.

Jaune tries to stop redheaded girl from doing something that will get her killed. Redheaded girl decides she has to do the thing that will get her killed anyway. Jaune is going to be significantly impacted by that death, which might include Jaune blaming himself, having anger issues, having a revenge driven connection to Cinder...

Now, these aren't the exact same scenarios, obviously Jaune knew Pyrrha better than Penny and for longer, Jaune and Pyrrha were partners with crushes on each other, and Jaune wasn't actually the one to deal the blow with Pyrrha. Whereas this time around, Jaune doesn't seem to know Penny very well, but still had her life in his hands and was forced into the position of murdering her just to save a power. So his reactions and struggles might be a bit different. But also the writers are hacks who thought that a fun way to make V8 similar to V3 was just to kill the same character they killed back then after going out of their way to invalidate her arc, themes, and entire existence, so that doesn't give me a lot of hope.

However, the entire story MKEK constructed that puts Jaune in a similar place that his V3 self makes me even more secure in saying that I just think they have no idea what to do with any of their characters anymore, and Jaune definitely falls into that category despite being better off than most. They don't give Yang real, personal growth and struggles anymore, instead they just kind of have her act angry and then look at Blake sometimes and call that 'an arc.' Blake has nothing to do now that they forgot her entire character after mucking up the White Fang arc so badly, so now she just looks pretty and says encouraging stuff to her friends here and there. They apparently forgot to write Nora as a real character for years and therefore couldn't fathom anything for her to do besides liking Ren and saying she isn't much of a real character, then they put her in a coma for episodes. They haven't had anything for Mercury to do since season three, so they had him arrive in the whale just to leave the plot again without doing anything. They haven't had anything for Ruby to do that went past the 'basic hero speeches' surface level since season three, so after 'missing my friends' ended, they just gave her 'let me do what I want' and that's been like, her whole character ever since. They haven't had anything for Cinder to do since gaining the Fall Maiden powers, so they keep rehashing 'Cinder tries to get a power/is too dumb to get it' over and over, and then dropped a completely irrelevant backstory into things to try to get us invested. Oscar's only real purpose in the show is 'being the Oz carrier kid,' and he still manages to be treated with more significance than the guy in his head who actually matters to the plot, because the writers shelved him for almost two years after having his only real role be 'mentor still I guess' and then doing their half-assed and very forced 'The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore' spiel. Characters like Qrow, Penny, and Ironwood get by on a technicality of at least having something going on for them even if it's terribly done, while side characters like May and Whitley actually feel much more well rounded than the protagonists, because their motivations and story arcs somehow feel way more rounded out than the entirety of RWBYJNOR (maybe because they're not supposed to have seasons long story arcs and go through significant character growth, so their small moments and small changes feel fine.)

Meanwhile, Neo somehow manages to feel way more significant than Salem the main antagonist, because she at least has a history with and gives a crap about Team Kids, and we at least know what her freaking motivation is even if she's written badly and needs more depth.

Jaune one hundred percent suffers from the fact that the writers don't seem like they actually have anything for him to do, and it feels like the only thing they could think to do with him now that he's moved on from Pyrrha is give him a new dead redhead to grieve about. And it's very possible that Oscar was a last minute replacement for the arc they might've given to Jaune, which would explain why he's never gotten much progress or development himself despite eating up tons of screen time while Ruby drinks tea.

#rwde #anti rwby #rwby hate #rwby criticism #rwby bashing #anti crwby #rwby critical #canoncrit jaune arc #anti team rwby #canoncrit... Everyone I guess #there's no rwby character who I think has been written well #throughout the whole of their run time #not even my faves

[kitkatopinions]

Penny turning human and dying immediately pisses me off so much. I think it's obvious the main reason they did this was just so she's deader than dead and won't be back a third time. Penny never desired to be human before and its such a better outlook that someone who is a robot can experience humanity and feelings just as any other person can but they had to screw it all up just to ensure a permanent death. That Pietro never learns about his daughter's transformation and subsequent death sucks!

There is literally nothing good about Penny being turned human and then dying. There's not one single speck of good that I can even point to as a "at least we might get this" from the situation.

The way they transformed Penny? Horribly done, F- quality level, wish they had acted like it was actually important and had Penny - oh I don't know - be a part of the conversation about her own fucking body instead of having Ruby and co tell somebody else that Penny's body has nothing to do with her and must be removed and turned into a body they can see as their friend that they like. Also wish they hadn't either had Ambrosius break his own newly established rules to avoid breaking the rules when he had other options that were actually much more interesting, or that souls can just magic themselves up their own flesh and blood bodies but this time without shoes and gloves. The way they dealt with Robot!Penny going out? Horribly done, F- quality level, wish they hadn't specifically animated her to grip her head and REACH OUT TO THEM like she was in pain while we see through HER EYES as they abandon her to a horrible fate and the 'perfect' version of her walks off happy go lucky. The way that they had Penny act like she didn't get hugs before and somehow hadn't grasped emotion and wasn't a full person before? Is there a grade lower than F-? Because thanks, I hate it with my whole being. They can seriously screw off for that, Penny was a real fucking full person as a robot with all her nuts and bolts, and the fact that they had Penny and Ruby act like she wasn't was one giant middle finger both to the character of Penny and Ruby and the early seasons, but also to fans of Penny who identified with her and her struggles - specifically Neurodivergent and trans people. The way that they had Penny just not struggle with her new flesh form at all and then not be around to do much experiencing it, thus making the transformation essentially pointless because it provided no new challenge or depth or interest to Penny's character? F- again, pathetic, boring, useless, stupid.

Warning, discussion of suicide and suicidal tendencies beneath the keep reading

The way that they had Penny just assume that Jaune couldn't heal her and wrote off her suicidal tendencies she'd been acting like she had all season long after begging her best friend to kill her and having Ruby say no? Oh God, I can't even talk about how disgusting and triggering the way that they handled that was. There was no good to be had there, and the way they did it by making Jaune and his choice more of a central focus than Penny... Literally blurring her dying form so we can see Jaune's eyes reflected on his sword as he thinks about the moral horror of killing her on the grounds of saving power rather than even trying anything else...

Like, are moral dilemmas fun to write for and is Jaune in a vacuum a good character to deal with that? Yes. But RWBY does not exist in a vacuum and Jaune and Penny barely talked, Jaune has a tendency to outstrip Ruby in terms of story arcs and important moments, Jaune has a bad history as a character specifically with dead redheaded women, and this wasn't handled as a moral dilemma and as something Penny or Jaune might be wrong about or as something they tried with all their might to avoid. Whether or not the RWBY writers intended for us to believe that it was the only choice, they didn't convey that properly, and having Jaune acting as the focus to the scene rather than Ruby, Penny's father, or Penny herself... Big giant yikes from me. The way that they had one of Penny's big last moments used to propel forward the less interesting, less beloved character of Winter? (Sorry Winter fans, just my opinion,) which they in turn used to try to further put down the character of Ironwood, seemingly because Ironwood can't be right about anything, have any good traits, or do anything good and Winter needs to reject every single thing she once wanted, liked, or thought in order to achieve Ruby-level fandom hero worship? D! Minus! I'd give them an F, but then I'd have to see them in summer school. And Winter getting the Maiden powers was actually something I wanted in volume seven, but too little too late, I no longer want it and it was so badly done and they drained Winter of the interest and challenge she could provide as a character once they had her act like she'd never believed any of the things she actively was trying to fight for beforehand, so now I don't want it and I'm gonna count it as also getting an F-. I know longer want Winter in the show at all because I'm so soured towards her character after all of this shit with Penny. And finally, the way that they had Pietro just not part of the equation at all, as if Penny and everyone around her and the writers who had their hand so obviously pushing her along her thrown together 'story arc' forgot that she even had a father? Again, I'm asking if there's a grade under F- I would like to pay Gordon Ramsey to yell at MKEK for me over this? Thank you. I would like him to ask MKEK if they have two seconds and then give his "Come on, guys!" and "You're delusional!" And "What a shame," stuff, and then maybe, just maybe, they'll realize that having Penny completely seemingly forget her father exists isn't even as bad as them forgetting that one of their few disabled people of color characters exist and just leaving him in the tundra with no mention of him was terrible. Like, what were they thinking?

And now we're going to get Jaune grief and maybe Ruby grief and maybe anti-Oz and anti Ironwood stuff about this, when maybe MKEK should've just left Penny dead if they were going to do this sort of thing. Penny is one of the few things in RWBY where instead of saying "good concept, but they did it badly" or "I might not like the concept, but it could've been good, they just failed at it," I actually full on think it was one hundred percent a mistake, a bad concept.

#rwde #anti rwby #rwby hate #rwby bashing #pro ironwood #anti winter schnee #canoncrit penny polendina #canoncrit jaune arc #anti mkek #tw; suicide #tw; discussion of suicide #trigger warning; suicide

[kitkatopinions]

This is honestly mostly jaune ask. But i found "jnpr get a dog". And jaune is a dog, even taking commands from pyrrha. Honestly, this whole comic, moments in chibi series or scenes like in vol7,8 where he get some at least slightly cool moment and then he trips or lost ballance. What's the point of it? Do people find showing someone constantly in demeaning manner funny? Does RT simply feeds jaune haters like that? I suppose i'm too new to this fandom to understand.

Honestly, I think there are three possible theories that could go towards explaining the way Jaune is used in moments like these and only one of them is something I can actually get behind.

This post has already gotten a bit long, so I'll go ahead and put it under a keep reading. Canoncrit Jaune below, I guess, lol. It's both pro-jaune and anti-jaune content, because I love Jaune and think his story is one of the better arcs in RWBY, but I also think there's a lot wrong with how he's used. So... Yeah.

1. Jaune was given a "loser/dork/underdog" sort of personality at the start of the show. Jaune is a fairly strong character who started out the series as sulky, bumbling, trying way too hard, etc, with good moments like his friendship with Ruby, humor, and intelligence, and heart shining through. But it was kind of buried under his cringey moments, nice-guy behavior, pride, and selfishness. This kind of character can be really hard for a lot of people to like, but in a show of good character development we rarely see in this show, Jaune had many of these flaws so he could grow out of them, even if sometimes I don't like how the writers dealt with them. We see Jaune start growing up, start adapting, start taking himself less seriously, trying to put his team first, growing as a fighter, and lately becoming a mediator and acting as a co-leader with Ruby while making tough calls and coming up with plans (whether I like his plans or not.) The show has even beefed Jaune up into far more muscly territory (which is something they haven't done with characters like Yang or Nora,) and given him a new hairdo that's less 'scraggly' and is 'getting him lots of attention.' Essentially, he's not the loser/dork/underdog character anymore, Jaune has become more of a smart jock, someone the others (like Ren) are shown to look up to, who keeps his head more than the others. But I think that like always, the writers want to have their cake and eat it too. Jaune isn't a loser/dork/underdog character anymore, but they still make him fumble and mess up in ways that don't matter after he does cool things or keeps everyone calm or comes up with all the plans or so on and so forth. Because they still want "lol there's Jaune being a loser again ha," without the "oh man, what is he doing? Why is he self-sabotaging?" Essentially, I feel like they don't know how to keep Jaune's 'loser' qualities (that don't actually have to go hand-in-hand with always failing/always cringe) alongside his newer, more secure and grown up personality, so instead they just throw in either jokes or 'funny' framing about how he's still got some feminine traits and still isn't the most social, or they just have him fumble a couple of times to let us know 'see, he isn't perfect still' while they make him the least flawed member of his team who has the most fleshed out arc and who is corralling his majority-women friend group. That's theory one, anyway.

2. This theory is that they're very aware of the criticism leveled against how they wrote and still write for Jaune, how they put him above even Ruby and especially above many members of Ruby's team in terms of importance and in terms of attention paid to their arc and growth. They're aware that people like me and other critics complain that Ruby's strategic qualities and understanding of her team vanished, and that Jaune instead became the only one who could come up with plans. And in order to kind of wave away some of these complaints, they keep Jaune stumbling and keep making cracks because "See? Our level headed, never scared anymore, fine at combat, thirsted after, muscly, super intelligent strategist, healer with extra aura, feels-more-like-the-team-leader-than-Ruby-does, badge carrying superman paragon is still not as good as Ruby and is still not perfect, because look, don't you see him stumbling? Marrow forgot his name. He has a lot of sisters. Somebody threw a rock at him. Embarrassing, right?" That's theory two.

3. Theory three actually makes sense to me, and it's that it's possible that they're trying to show that he's still not as good as he should be. After all, he cheated his way into Beacon, he wasn't doing that well even with marked improvement in volume three, his hard training in volume four and extra training from Oz that we see likely didn't make up for years of combat school. The show struggles hard when it comes to combat ever since volume 3 ended (with some occasionally bad fights before then,) and I think it's possible that they use Jaune to demonstrate 'he's still not as good as the others, he stills has more growing to do.' However, while this at least makes some sense to me, I think it's the least likely.

Personally, I really don't mind Jaune continuing to be awkward and a bit on the fumbling side, I just wish they'd let him continue to be a characters with personality flaws of his own that they actually showed as flaws outside of 'Yeah, he's kinda awkward and still messes up in combat sometimes.' I wish that it was treated more as Jaune being a person who messes up and makes mistakes and then tries to learn and grow and get better, and instead with Jaune I feel the same way I do when the laugh track in Friends goes off after yet another not that funny joke. The comedy in RWBY has definitely gone down too, so while I started the series thinking that Jaune was a frustrating doof (and only liking him more on the re-watch,) I still found it funny when he'd crack jokes or do things like fight with his Team during the Vytal Tournament. And now even despite really liking Jaune as a character, there's still a lot that the writers do with him that frustrates me, and then they have a 'there'd be a laugh track here if this was Friends' moment and I'm just rolling my eyes and hoping they move along.

As for RWBY Chibi, I will say that Jaune is definitely not an exception there in terms of being the butt of many jokes, and I might say that he actually is treated better than some. At least when jokes are made of Jaune, it's like jokes being made of Qrow or Oz or Cinder where the joke is that they're doing something ridiculous and dumb, or overblowing traits to their extremes. Blake gets reduced to 'lol cat girl does cat thing' despite the fact that it feels very insensitive and bad when you remember that even in the world of Chibi, discriminating against Faunus by assuming they'll act like the animal they have traits of is anti-Faunus and it's wrong. I have a general problem with how Chibi's humor is, though. There's a reason I like to only watch the Torchwick and Neo episodes and the 'one second of every RWBY chibi episode' video.

#rwde #rwby criticism #rwby bashing #rwby hate #anti rwby #anti mkek #canoncrit jaune arc #anti jaune arc #there's also some pro jaune arc here but this is the best I can do #anti crwby #rwby critical