Feels like a good time to remind everyone that Weiss is 19, Ruby is 17, Oscar is 15.
People who ship Ruby with Oscar get called pedos.
People who ship Weiss with Ruby don’t.
Something seems wrong with that.
/Emerald mentally manipulates Yang into breaking Merc's legs/
/Cinder makes a manipulative announcement to the Vale audience/
/Merc pretended to be injured for sympathy points./
"No no, it's James who is evil, guys. How could he dare follow the Vytal Tournament rules and disqualify Yang for something they couldn't control since Emerald and Merc manipulated her into doing it? See, James is pure evil."
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Do you think Salem would have been more scarier if she reincarnated like Oz instead of being immortal? Yeah, having an enemy that can't be killed is a real hope-breaker, but knowing that the master of the Grimm could one day possess you or those you care about and there's nothing you can do is frightening.
Honestly, I think 'timeless undying unkillable evil magic person' is very scary as an idea. The 'might posses' reincarnating magic witch is a very scary idea too and now I have this mental picture of Salem hosting in a young girl about Oscar's age and still sitting on a throne and commanding her inner circle and throwing around her magic with her eyes turning black and her little host forced into a corner of her mind and unable to take over, which complicates everything for the heroes who all have to grapple with having to chose between not fighting Salem or hurting a little girl... That's an AU I could be into.
The problem, I think, isn't that the idea of Salem isn't good or scary enough, it's that it's ill used. 'Undead' is a great horror concept, as witnessed by centuries of vampire content. It's interesting because we don't actually know what thousands of years of unending life would do to people, which is also creepy because the idea of ageless horrors waiting in the hidden places of the world is something most people at least understand. But it's doubly so because even though we don't know what thousands of years of living would do to someone, humans do have a concept of personal feelings like boredom, of uselessness, of feeling like we're wasting away, of wanting life to stop, of feeling trapped, and even of what years of isolation does to people. Imagining these very real human experiences on a huge scale is - theoretically - horrifying because some of us can really relate to those ideas. A character that's been around so long that they do terrible things and play around with people's lives just to try and get a little interest and a little change in their life... That's scary in theory. A character that will let their enemies go full force against them just to see if they have the guts to try and strike them down... That's scary in theory. A villain that has all the time in the world to break their enemies down minute by minute, hour by hour, year by year, and will do it all with a completely unaffected expression... That's good in theory. That's great in theory.
But if you don't actually make that villain matter, if you don't actually make that villain use that scary, disturbing, empty quality, if you don't make that villain actually effective... It's gonna feel faked and stupid and ineffective.
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Ironwood Analysts Be Like
“Him breathing is the worst thing to ever happen to Remnant. Salem? Who the fuck is Salem? This man is evil incarnate!”
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Actually, let's just have some fun with the concept of Qrow ditching the kids in Volume 6, after he subtly said Jaune's plan was stupid and Ruby decided to be angrily ungrateful to his dismissiveness.
See, I would've loved to see Qrow get furious with Ruby. Instead of quieting down to become obedient to her whims, it would've been iconic to see Qrow fume and tell Ruby harshly and honestly that their plan to steal an airship is the dumbest thing he's ever heard.
For someone that was portrayed as morally grey himself, this would help solidify him into being even greyer than we imagined. Now, that's not to say he's a bad guy. Their plan was stupidly comical after all, and Qrow being the stand-in guy to voice how dumb it is would make sense to build tension between them.
Now, Ruby either reacts poorly or not at all. By that, she either runs off and cries, or starts barking back at him. Knowing how she handles stressful situations in V8, Ruby runs off and cries, upset that her own Uncle has the nerve to disagree with her plans and not accept that she's a kid with big ideas.
So this now makes Qrow look like a bad guy to the other kids. Although they say nothing (other than an angry Yang perhaps,) they make it clear in their silence that they are not pleased with Qrow. And this could also weigh on Qrow's shoulders, feeling bad that he raised his voice at his own niece. But, knowing Qrow as well, he would want to go his own way instead of talking to Ruby.
And so, he disappears upstairs, only to fly out the bedroom window as a crow. He wants to go think. As much as the sadness weighs on his heart, his frustration also carries with, as he convinces himself that he'd be better off going ahead of the kids than to stick around, telling himself that there's now way they'd be dumb enough to steal an airship.
That night, Qrow flies off to Atlas alone.
He makes his way to James' ivory tower, still in a tizzy about his reaction earlier with Ruby. When he morphs back into his human form, he's at the gates of the tower, only to be quickly stopped by guards. Qrow is more annoyed, lazily raising his hands as they question him. Qrow makes it clear that he and James are familiar with each other, to which one of the guards decides to communicate with their General to ask if this is true.
James gets the call, hears the name of the man they've apprehended, and he immediately orders them to lower their weapons and send Qrow up to his office. It's during this time that Penny is still in Mantle and Winter is with the Ace Ops, James is alone when he reunites with Qrow.
Both men reunite, and James can't contain how happy he is to see Qrow. While he's keeping his composure, Qrow can tell there's a glee in James' voice. Qrow didn't have much care to look around Atlas to see what has changed - he was just surprised by how James reacted to him returning.
So the kids have to deal with getting into Atlas without Qrow.
Meanwhile, Qrow and James totally share the same bed and make out, nobody can change this.
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Underrated RWBY character: Offscreen!Oscar
Never heard of him? Here’s a list of things this elusive yet prominent character has done:
had his first ever conversation with Oz
decided to leave home
maybe left a note, maybe said goodbye, who knows? O!O is mysterious like that
switched with Oz for the first time, which probably was really interesting
talked to Qrow in the bar long enough for him to get THAT drunk
walked Qrow home safely
training arc (trust me)
training with the cane for the first time (or at all)
presumably talked to Oz about taking control without permission?
had an existential crisis and realization after being attacked (aka “did some thinking”)
got new clothes/went therapy thrifting and baked a casserole for the people who hurt him
came to a new (ambiguous) resolution about his fate
training arc part 2 Atlas boogaloo
Fun fact: you can actually spot Offscreen Oscar onscreen! The v7 intro promised us Oscar/Ironwood sparring, but it didn’t make the cut, so Offscreen Oscar got a cameo in the intro! It’s true!
whatever the fuck else he was up to for most of volume 7
fought Neo (”but, she looked like someone else!”) - the encounter left Atlas guards all lying on the floor, but O!Oscar was still able to run after her
told RWBN about getting captured by Salem, Ozpin’s return, and Emerald’s defection
told RWBYJNR about Ironwood shooting him and him unlocking magic (we can only assume??)
fended off ravagers in Vacuo
Probably has had, like, ANY conversation(s) with Oz about how the merge actually works. But maybe not! Who knows what he knows? Or what he thinks? Not us! (:
... and much more! Truly, an underrated character.
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Speaking of Rogue 1, whatever it’s flaws, is so much better than these last couple of RWBY volumes. The key being the characters actually putting their lives on the line for what they believe, and in turn inspiring others (and a bunch of other little story bits and such).
Omg, does Rogue One put RWBY volumes seven and eight to shame. And the funny thing is, there are some really similar story beats! (spoilers btw.
Protagonist gets brought into the fold of a big organization trying to stop a world-ending terror machine (run by big evil magic dark creepy thing,) protagonist has personal problems involved in the fight against evil terror machine including the death of her mother, protagonist finds the force she joins not up to par with her standard despite her own behavior being pretty lacking, and gets heated when the people she's been bidden to work with don't operate under as strict of a moral code as she'd like. During this time, meet the defector from evil terror machine, the lower level grunt who turns to the good side and joins protagonist. Protagonist (along with defector and other friends) find out that evil terror machine is gearing up to do some extreme evil terror machining and they argue to the group fighting ETM that they should take a chance to achieve what they need rather than fleeing. The group fighting in general does not agree, but that's not going to stop Protagonist, who then leaves the group fighting to do her own fighting, bringing a small following with her - including a very devoted member of the group fighting who goes against orders to do what they think is right. Then during the big fight trying to save everyone, the group is attacked and our protagonists 'die,' having completed their goal, but leaving their work of fighting Evil Terror Machine unfinished. During this, there's themes of trust, redemption, hope, and perseverance as well as the necessity and the responsibility to do what you think is right, even if it goes against orders.
Sounds a lot like RWBY volumes 7-8. But Rogue One goes about things a little different and out classes RWBY in a lot of ways. The Rebellion for instance operates under a gray area, with spies and murderers amongst its rank and people who refuse to get involved in the war when they think they can't win, and yet they aren't treated as villains, they aren't treated as gutless cowards, they aren't even treated as wholly in the wrong. Jyn gets checks and scoldings and learns and grows, while Cassian - lifelong rebel who spies and 'follows orders' even when he doesn't like said orders - undergoes some change, learning to trust more and doing what he has to do while defending the life he's lived and saying that managing to stop the Empire is what will make his life of sacrifice worth it. Meanwhile, it's made abundantly clear that running away won't actually stop everything from being destroyed and that actually, everything likely will be destroyed if they don't try and get the Death Star plans, which contrasts in RWBY where keeping the Relics out of Salem's hands will do more to save the world and fighting an invincible foe while leaving them in her reach is not the way to go. Meanwhile, the Defector (my baby boy,) Bodhi, makes it clear he knows what he did was wrong and is trying to make it right by defecting, eventually giving up his life to try and get the Death Star plans out despite undergoing extreme mental trauma recently for his troubles, which really makes Emerald's arc look even less convincing if you ask me, especially considering that Bodhi was just an Imperial cargo pilot who's kill count (prior to leaving the Empire) was zero and Emerald was actively helping to bring down kingdoms and murdered a kid. Meanwhile the main villain of the movie isn't a child slave or a heavily disabled military veteran on the side of the good guys (though there is a heavily disabled military vet coded character on the side of the good guys that gets treated kinda badly I never said this movie was perfect,) instead our main villain is a jealous old punk trying to rise in ranks of the Empire who wants recognition for coercing a man into building a death machine for him after he murders said guy’s wife. Also the disabled military vet coded character that gets treated badly at least gets some sympathy and love from his daughter figure before he dies and his sacrifice and years of fighting for the Rebellion is recognized. And in the end of the movie, their deaths aren't the result of a lack of foresight, sloppiness, or a failure to act. Instead it all came down to the odds having been stacked against them from the start, and them doing the best they could and scraping together a win for the galaxy that cost them their lives. And like you pointed out, when they decided to leave the Rebellion (temporarily, because it was more of a 'don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness' sort of thing,) they actually did what they said they were going to and threw themselves into a battle even when the chances of winning were slim and they were willing to die and watch their friends die, which is actual bravery, actual guts, actual sacrifice. (Also like usual, I'm way less harsh on Team JRY in this respect as well as Oscar, May, and obviously Ozpin. But Team RWB? Mmmm.)
And I know that RWBY isn't meant to be Rogue One (which is essentially a war movie set in the Star Wars universe,) but I am saying that the way they handled most of the story beats and even the base concepts and even the themes of love, trust, and hope, way better than RWBY did. Imagine a version of Rogue One where - after hearing the Rebel Alliance didn't want to go to Scarif, Jyn contacted the rest of her group and was like "Mon Mothma is going to leave the plans on Scarif omg everyone she's evil!" and then instead of just leaving to do their mission, half their team returned to Jedha to save any refuges who may have survived the blast and get them out of the heat, and the other half hacked some Rebel Alliance towers and sent out a galaxy wide broadcast that was like "Um, hi. My name is Jyn Erso... I'm a Rebel." That told everyone that Jedha had been destroyed and that the dark side of the Force would come to destroy them next, and they made sure to throw in the Mon Mothma and the other Rebels could no longer be trusted. And then after sending out that message, Chirrut got hurt, so Jyn was like 'fuck it' and found out that there's some great places to bunker down on Alderaan. So she decided she could leave that 'saving the Galaxy' shit to Mon Mothma and the rebels she used to know back in the day and that bearded guy who seemed to know what he was talking about and she and K2-SO just went there and had some tea. But meanwhile Cassian, Baze, and Bodhi were taking care of people in Jedha, but then whoops, Bodhi got captured and taken to Scarif, so Cassian and K2-SO go to save him. They manage it and it turns out - silly Bodhi, he'd had a weapon in his pocket the whole time that they can just use to blow up the Death Star anyway! So they get the plans and then do that and get out of Scarif easy peasy. Then they meet up with Jyn and the others, but Mon Mothma is really mad because she wants Cassian back and wants the plans in case the Empire does make another Death Star sometime later, so Mon Mothma sends out a message telling Cassian to surrender or she'll blow up more of Jedha herself and - Okay, this has really gotten away from me.
But, all in all, Rogue One - despite being a very flawed movie - is an example of some of the ideas in RWBY done better and with more moral depth and nuance than in RWBY. Also the last Darth Vader scene is everything.
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what are some common tropes/things you see in rwby fics that you dislike??
oh my oum. for the love of god let this die & stop deifying a dead man. we have canonical gods in the world already, just use them.
sex god jaune. it's overdone & no one is attracted to 15 inch dicks.
really petty jabs at other ships. clearly this depends on what you ship & that's all fine & dandy but could people at least not tag the ship as a background one if they're gonna shit on it lmao.
tagging background ships. this isn't specific to rwby ships but if i'm looking for a ship, i really don't want to have to go through 5000 bees fics just to get background lancaster or whatever.
making certain characters into rapists. this is mainly with adam but i've seen it with others & you can just tell when it's because they want to make a character a hate sink & not actually delve into the trauma & lasting affects that comes with being a rape survivor. knock it off.
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I can't wait tell crwby give us Oscar back story caz you now their going to have his back story be awful and full of him getting abuse ,his parents dying or something worse
Honestly, I'm not sure we'll ever be getting Oscar backstory. Maybe tidbits here and there (like learning about fairytales he read), but his life prior to what we see in the series seems to be intended as a normal, humble one. It's textbook Nephewism - give a protagonist an aunt/uncle we never/hardly see so when they leave home it hurts less and we don't need to focus on it.
It's like that one v8 Oscar Thoughts video said, when Nora hugs Oscar:
Ozpin: Haha, someone's a mama's boy.
Oscar: Hey that's not funny -- I'm an orphan, you know! Possibly... maybe.
Ozpin: Well, prepare for that to be a maybe for some time because quite frankly your backstory isn't relevant!
I am curious about his past, how he came to live with his aunt, etc., but it may never be directly addressed in canon.
Perhaps a panel, knowing CRWBY :P
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I still can't believe that toxic ex boyfriend but not boyfriend Adam lasted 7 volumes but sassy mua ginger Torchwick didn't. Rt was setting themselves up for failure
i really enjoyed roman's end because it felt narratively fitting but goddamn if i don't think current rwby really did need him just to have something enjoyable to watch sobs.
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We never got an Ace Ops vs happy Huntresses fight
Its so weird to me
The teams are meant to foil one another, the state enforcers and the rebels
Why have them fill those opposing archetypes then do nothing with it.
add it to the list of rwby's missed opportunities that were built up in canon but then never go anywhere. much like the marrow & blake connection, ironwood & qrow fight, the schnees actually having a fulfilling arc, etc etc.
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New pet peeve: "You can't criticize the story of an episode, because a later unreleased episode might justify it. But you can still praise the story of an episode even though, by the same metric, a later unreleased episode could retroactively make it worse."
Oh yeah, that one has been a pet peeve of mine for RWBY going on three years now lol. And it's not an entirely baseless stance. Audiences aren't wrong for picking up on cues (deliberate or otherwise), recognizing that this is an ongoing series, and concluding that this will be developed further — potentially for the better. Don't slam the show for not doing X when X needs the rest of the season (or even multiple seasons) to come about/develop. The problem is that a) the fans pushing this perspective likewise tend to ignore RWBY's history of dropping plot threads rather than just slowly unfurling them — making that perspective appear less and less reasonable the longer time goes on — and b) they're applying it to situations that have already messed things up.
Let's take two examples. Example #1 is Penny getting her human body. Putting aside for the moment the thematic issues with that, fans weren't wrong to say, "Wait and see." At the time of "Creation" none of us had any idea what might come of this change. Whether this would lead to a new and exciting arc for her, whether all our questions would be answered... or whether this potential would get dropped along with so much else. Though there's still plenty else to criticize in the episode, specifically criticizing RWBY for not doing more with Penny's change is silly because then and there the story only had 20 minutes we had no idea what might happen in the following episodes. The fact that they didn't do anything with Penny, just killing her off again, is beside the point. The potential did exist and fans aren't wrong to praise potential for being potential. A well-written story doesn't smooth every edge, answer every question, and wrap up every arc in the span of a single episode. It wouldn't be a long-form story if it did.
However, Example #2 is Emerald joining the group, wherein fans say "Wait and see" regarding her redemption. Problem is... that arc is done. We saw it. The group had a brief argument about trusting Emerald, Oscar stopped Ruby from attacking her, there was another few lines of annoyance in the dining room, the group accepted her via laughter, and then Emerald got to smile about how "weird" it felt to be doing good. Badly done as it was, that functioned as an arc! We saw a conflict, a resolution, and growth. It was terrible, but it existed. Which means that all these claims about how the group is going to struggle more in the future, or Emerald will prove herself more in the future, or whatever is currently getting said under the assumption that it will be Good Writing doesn't hold up. Even if RWBY backtracked and gave us that, it's too late. It would read as ridiculous to have the group go from laughing happily at her 'lol remember how I used to try and kill you guys a few hours ago?' speech to suddenly treating her with the reservations her actions always deserved. This isn't potential, this is the RWBY writers backing themselves into a corner. Either we're left with a "redemption" that was never a redemption to begin with, or the story tries to do that work in Volume 9, making the Volume 8 material look like even more of a mess in the process. There is no way to fix this now.
Too much of RWBY is read through the lens of what fans assume is going to happen, to the point where some in the fandom actively ignore what is happening on screen in order to maintain that presumed potential in their minds. Those who put faith in Penny getting a fantastic arc as a human may have been a bit too optimistic given RWBY's history (and I do include myself in that), but they're not wrong to point out that such potential existed for a time. Those who put their faith in Emerald getting a better redemption are actively ignoring the canon in order to preserve the better written version of RWBY they've got in their heads. And then yeah, we have the hundreds of cases in which "Wait and see" is used simultaneously as a way to dismiss criticism while also praising the current canon. Up until we know, say, what happens with grimm!Summer, "Wait and see" allows fans to say that the Volume 8 Hound material was incredibly well written AND that critics are fools for doubting what will come next because they've already jumped ahead and written RWBY to their own standards. They've already imagined a version of RWBY one, two, three years from now where grimm!Summer is handled in a spectacular fashion (whatever that means for each individual fan), thereby validating both the writing we currently have and throwing a metaphorical middle finger up at the critics. Never mind that this version doesn't exist and that a bad version is equally possible, it's treated as fact. Thus, we're left with a community where potential is, so often, assumed to be leading to good things... despite how often RWBY has proven otherwise. Because whenever we do get to that future writing — when it's clear we're done with Oscar's outing, or forgiving Ozpin, when Penny is dead and Raven never showed up in Volume 8 and a ton else — when it's clear that "Wait and see" didn't actually lead to anything good like so many claimed... the fans who made those claims suddenly no longer want to engage with that. They ignore it rather than going, "Huh, yeah. That didn't turn out like we'd hope. I can see now why you'd be hesitant to put your emotional investment in this new question the show has raised. If they dropped the ball before, they can definitely do so again..." Instead, it's this round robin of "Wait and see" applying to the newest plot point, ignoring the dropped plot points behind us, a catch-all response to praise the current canon and shrug off anyone who would doubt the brilliance of the writers... not matter how much evidence they can point to in order to say, "Hey, this doesn't appear brilliant to me." I mean, it certainly makes for happier viewing, but if you're at all interested in discussing the canon as it stands and what, based on history, is possible, if not likely to happen... that's not a good perspective to take. And that catch all "Wait and see" response will continue all the way up until RWBY ends. Potentially even longer if the other publications — Chibi, novels, etc. — continue beyond it. I can easily imagine a community where one half is frustrated with how the RWBY series finale ended and the other half is going, "Well, we haven't see the next novel yet that's definitely going to make all this better, so your criticisms mean nothing."
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not to be rwde but like
i love watching ship wars between two ships i like completely ruin my time on either tags, forcing me to just stand there like “I’m about to drop both of you and block the characters from my mind until y’all are done.”
like usually i doesn’t get to me but my god people have been loud lately. note: this is not accusatory to one group of people, it accusatory to all groups toxic fans.
listen, keep it classy, keep it moral, keep it kind, and just go outside. seriously, if it starts to upset you too much, just step away for your own mental health.
anyway, no matter who you are, take care of yourself. drink water, eat something, take a breather, relax a bit. take care of that physical and mental health because you deserve it. and to all you lovely individuals going through the same shit as me, have a nice day, i wish you all the best and i hope you don’t get caught in the crossfire.
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this blog is one of my safe spaces so I wanted to like!! bring this to your attention in case you had anything to add!!!
I have seen a lot of people wanting the show to “fix” or theorize about how this character will “fix” a disability in the show!!!! and its a kinda gross thing to have seen on numerous occasions!!!
For example I have SM and Neo is a comfort character for me because of that and!! I have seen a little to much debate about if neo is “faking” it, if neo will fix her muteness, ect! and It feels a little ableist even if unintentional!
Also whats with the show and having implied minority groups but not saying them in the source material or outright (example cocoa being fruity but only confirmed - iirc - in the books) and stuff like that!!
sorry for rambling your the only one who will listen!
awh, we're so honoured by being one of your safe spaces. ♥
& honestly, yeah i agree. there's a weird fixation on neo " faking " her mutism & i don't get why it exists? like why can't she just be a disabled woman who can't talk. why does it need to be " fixed " by the revelation that actually she can talk, she was just lying the whole time when canon has disputed that on at least three separate occasions, even from the very beginning of neo's appearances. you're right in that it feels super ableist & feeds into tropes of the lying disabled person & that pretty girls can't be disabled.
as for the show not being outright with their queer confirmation, the more cynical part of me says that it's because rooster teeth knows they built their audience on homophobic dudebros in the early 2010s & don't want to completely alienate them while striving for " progression " in their shows. the fact that a majority of their queer characters are from va headcanon, confirmed in outsourced material or aren't in the show anymore does little to dissuade this theory lmao.
rt will be all gay rights until june is over & then it's burn in hell you stupid fruit. just like everyone else. they're not the queer fndm's best friend, they're not even our ally lmao.
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I know Weiss and Yang's direct interactions were sparse in Volumes 1-5 but every time I see them I just keep thinking about how good they'd be as a couple. Like I just recently rewatched V1 and when Blake runs off, you have Weiss and Yang actually debating and challenging each other on their viewpoints as they look for her and I was kind of taken aback by it. Like I just remember thinking "they actually try to push each other forward without being disrespectful, this is kind of a good relationship dynamic".
Still amazes me that Eddy's ass actually thinks these two would divorce, if anything they'd be more likely to last than any pair in the series
more examples that eddy was talking out of his ass & just wanted to punch down on a f/f ship but didn't want to take the risk of saying the couple that would absolutely divorce in canon if they ever got married lmao.
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I lowkey wish Jacques would've lived long enough for Willow to divorce his ass as the very least.
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I know someone else pointed it out already but I cannot help but be dumbfounded by the fact that the people who accuse RG shippers of being obsessed with sex made the first day of their ship week about fucking HICKEYS
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what are your thoughts on people who say RWBY’s BB wasn’t given development because it’s “not the main focus of the show” and “they’re too busy doing other important things” even though it’s been like four volumes and we’ve gotten almost squat in actual bumbleby development
Tbh, I think it's a very weak excuse, both to excuse MKEK from accusations of queerbaiting and pandering to homophobes and to make the bumblebee ship out to be more than it is and to pretend it has more credence than it does.
There are three reasons why it's literally impossible for me to think 'they're too busy doing other important things for a relationship' and 'it's not the main focus of the show' are good excuses or applicable to bumblebee.
1. Opposite sex relationships are given focus and credence all throughout the show. Season one, Jaune openly flirts with Weiss and Pyrrha. Season two, Sun asks Blake on a date, Weiss asks Neptune on a date, Jaune talks plainly with Ren about his desire to ask Weiss on a date, Pyrrha confirms she wishes she'd gone to the dance with Jaune, Sun and Blake officially go on a date with each other. Season three, Jaune and Pyrrha share a kiss. To be fair, there's nothing more than somewhat heavy hinting in regards to Blake and Sun or Ren and Nora in seasons 4 or 5. But then in volume six, Blake kisses Sun on the cheek, and in volume seven, Nora yanks Ren into a kiss. In volume eight, Ren and Nora have a clear and honest discussion of feelings and admittance of loving each other. The only time in the entire freaking series Bumblebee had an excuse to not be added into small moments in a clear way was in volumes 4 and 5 when the two were separated by state lines. This is one of the reasons I find it so hard to believe that Blake and Yang were planned from the start, because the writers clearly had no qualms in portraying romantic relationships, yet they never gave Yang and Blake more than 'can be perceived as romantic if you squint' bare minimum groundwork in the first five season, and have refused to give a confirmation for eight seasons now. I'm not even asking for development at this point, I think asking for them to put effort into character dynamics past season six is a fool's errand. But the fact that it isn't even confirmed, and it's the outlier while also being one of the only queer ships and the only queer ship given any credence amongst characters that aren't passing side characters... That's suspicious. People use the excuse that Bumblebee isn't the focus of the show despite them giffing pictures of Ren and Nora's kiss and them discussing feelings during the exact same time we're meant to believe there just was no time at all for Blake and Yang to even develop let alone confirm feelings and that MKEK will have them grow and kiss later if we just wait and give them time. It's just an excuse.
2. There was plenty of downtime available during the course of the show where Blake and Yang could've had real honest talks and growth in their relationship. In the first season, there's plenty of time in-between classes and while Jaune has like five episodes focusing on him for Blake and Yang to have even one openly romantic moment. In the second season, the whole dance arc is centered around various romances, yet they can't even mention Blake and Yang? In season three, there are plenty of fun, casual moments leading up to the Fall and more Arkos moments. In season four and five, there's so much down time that lots of people literally quit the show (but like I said, they do have a good excuse for not including the bees here, because of the whole 'separated across countries' thing.) And then in volume six, there wasn't time on the train? There wasn't time in Brunswick farm when they held hands? There wasn't time after Adam for one small moment of confirmation? Maybe instead of forcing a 'Blake is actually totally being in the wrong by being strangely ableist all of a sudden and Yang is now one hundred percent in the right here' plot, they could've paid more attention to dealing with the conflict they'd spent two seasons setting up and also given confirmation. And then don't even try the whole 'there's no time in volume seven' because again
Ren and Nora can kiss in the middle of a very important political rally right before Tyrian starts murdering a bunch of people and notably before they kiss, they talk about Bumblebee but pointedly aren't actually talking about Blake and Yang and are actually both just aggressively talking about their relationship and only using Blake and Yang as a smoke shield to do so. But yeah, there wasn't any time for Blake and Yang to develop a relationship. (Sarcasm btw.) There was time for a Ironwood and Qrow hug (which was much beloved, don't get me wrong) despite the fact that they decided to pretend the two of them were never even friends seemingly that very season, but they couldn't have Yang and Blake confirm their relationship? There was time for Nora to take minutes to spill stuff on Whitley, but not for a confirmation of Blake and Yang? There was time for Neon Katt and Flynt to be brought back into the show with their nothing teammates based on a stupid dress meme, but not Blake and Yang confirmation? And then in season eight, when Ruby, Weiss, and Blake spent hours doing nothing in a house drinking tea and there was time for more contrived stupid drama between Blake and Yang that didn't go anywhere, while Ren and Nora had an in depth talk about their feelings, and they invented a 'Penny gets hacked and now must be turned human' plot that didn't wind up even mattering in the least, there's no time for a confirmation of Blake and Yang as a ship? Miss me with that. That's another stupid excuse with no credence.
3. it's not that they don't put a lot of focus on the relationship, they do - to the point where Blake and Yang spent two seasons feeling like they were barely allowed to talk to others, and to the point of giving them incredibly contrived drama in season eight for no reason. I don't know how much more I even need to talk about this because I already mentioned some of this above, but for a relationship that gets almost no real development, they certainly take up a lot of screen time and a lot of each others screen time. So no, this is not a valid excuse either. This is like Ruby's development and role as the protagonist all over again. It's not that she doesn't have enough screen time, they're constantly giving her rousing speeches and showing her in heroic poses and having us watch her even when she's sitting around doing nothing. But they won't develop her, they won't make her matter to the plot, they won't have their supposed protagonist actually protagonist, they just have her look like it sometimes and feature her a lot. It's the same thing with Blake and Yang. It's not that they don't have enough downtime or moments together, it's not like they don't get enough time in the show to develop. In the last three seasons especially, the show has constantly gone out of its way to feature them interacting and 'having conflicts' and spending tons of time together to the point where a character asking if they ever worked with other people got the cold shoulder for daring to suggest they spend any time apart. Since season six, they can barely be on screen without interacting with each other, looking at each other, or mentioning each other, although I will admit that this got much better in the second half of season eight. But my point is, they've had lots of time together, they just haven't grown. At the end of volume eight, they're at the same spot they were in volume six. Contrived and pointless drama created for the season suddenly goes away without discussion, leaving Blake feeling apologetic, and Yang acting forgiving and soft, there's a face touch and a forehead nuzzle. There's a lot of focus on Blake and Yang, there's just no real natural growth or progression and their relationship remains unconfirmed. It's just an excuse.
People want Blake and Yang to either have been confirmed already, or for there to be a good and valid reason why they aren't yet and I do get that impulse. For one thing, because people often feel guilty and insecure about enjoying something that's problematic, and for another thing, personal headcanons and interpretations can make even the most level headed and grounded viewers defensive, and so can the arguments you've been in. If someone has spent hours of time trying to argue with homophobes who insist that there's never been any chemistry between Blake and Yang and that the ship will never happen and that the forehead touches and blushes mean nothing at all and that anyone who ships Bumblebee is stupid when they ship Jaune and Ruby... Then that person is likely going to chafe at a post that says 'the romantic coding of Bumblebee isn't actually confirmation because it can be read as sisterly and I think the CRWBY writers did that on purpose.' And also, many queer people just want to be happy with what they get and don't want to see arguments that make their favorite ship in their favorite show out to be something bad or lacking when it's important enough to them just to see two girls even act slightly romantic at all. Those people aren't going to care about 'Disney is currently giving more confirmation to their queer ships,' they're not going to want to hear 'most everything Yang has done with Blake to indicate romance, Yang has also done with Ruby,' and they're certainly not going to want to hear 'Blake's romantic relationship with a man was given way more confirmation mere episodes after Sun's introduction than Blake and Yang has gotten in eight seasons.' It's upsetting, it's literally angering. Sometimes fans of bumblebee take that anger out on the person pointing out problems rather than the writers creating those problems. The impulse in all those cases are understandable, but I do think it's all an excuse.
Some people don't want to feel bad about liking something problematic, so they pretend that it isn't problematic and they lash out and get defensive.
Some people have already furthered bumblebee in their head and convinced themselves it's better and more confirmed than it is, and those people lash out and get defensive.
Some people just want to be able to enjoy a ship that's important to them and get defensive because of how many people outright reject and mock any queer ship.
But while the feelings involved are valid and I do understand these impulses, I don't think the answer is insisting something that isn't true. On top of that, there are homophobes literally using these excuses as a reason why Bumblebee shouldn't get confirmations, when they were just fine with the early season and its load of opposite sex ships that were given confirmation, and when they were fine with Ren and Nora. They push 'this a war, there's no time' as a way to shut up queer fans complaining about being baited yet again, and it sucks.
The RWBY writers have had tons of opportunities to confirm and grow Bumblebee in a clear and significant way, they just haven't. The RWBY writers aren't blanching at giving romance any focus in a show that isn't about romance, they just treat Bumblebee different than they treat opposite sex relationships. The RWBY writers aren't avoiding portraying romances because their characters are busy with a war on, they just treat Bumblebee different than they treat opposite sex relationships. And I think it's pretty clear why they're treating Bumblebee so different.
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what are your thoughts on people who say RWBY’s BB wasn’t given development because it’s “not the main focus of the show” and “they’re too busy doing other important things” even though it’s been like four volumes and we’ve gotten almost squat in actual bumbleby development
I say that (in my opinion) there are three kinds of people who might say that:
1. People with internalized homophobia, who do not *hate* LGBTQ+ people, but just don't want to see it in their media, because cartoon kisses are fine if its het, but 'shoved down their throat' if it's homo. They don't even blink at the Arkos and Renora kisses, because they're so used to het cartoon kisses that - unless they have a vested interest in the ship - they can honestly not even fully clock that it happened and kind of forget about it later. But same-sex kissing makes them deeply uncomfortable, even if they don't *hate* the people doing it, that it would have a lasting impact in their brain space. They've been trained from birth to think it's wrong, and they've accepted and internalized that training. But they don't *hate* the LGBTQ+ community, so they make excuses as to why the show is still 'good' even though it's used BB to sell merch without having confirmed it on-screen yet, because they think that's good enough. They think the LGBTQ+ should be satisfied with 'cheek-touching' because they themselves can't imagine anything more, and they think that being LGBTQ+ is fine 'as long as' it's done quietly, secretly, behind closed doors, off-screen, so they think an 'off-screen' romance is all the queer community requires. They might not *hate* the LGBTQ+ community, but they don't even realize how much they're still actually harming it.
2. The homophobes who do hate the LGBTQ+ community. They don't want us in their cartoons. They don't want us in their message boards. They don't want us in their fandom spaces. They don't want us in their tags. But only the boldest of them say so. The rest of them have to come up with other tactics. They have to make excuses. They have to "keep it PC." They refuse to let us "cancel" RWBY and Rooster Teeth, so they have to justify why the ship isn't confirmed yet, why Rooster Teeth is using the ship to sell merch but has not included a single solitary line of dialogue or a single animated interaction that is so undeniably romantic that it actually can't be explained away as 'sisterly.' So they fall back to this excuse. They furiously use "it's a war goddamn it, nobody kisses during a war unless you're Jaune or Nora or Pyrrha or Ren. What do you mean, 'that's half the main cast?' You just don't have any reading comprehension. You're an idiot. Stop shoving your gay propaganda down my throat. Even if Blake and Yang weren't sisterly - but by the way, Monty called Team RWBY a sisterhood so you're going against his vision when you try to pressure this noble company into pandering with your SJW bullying - even if they weren't sisterly, they still wouldn't kiss, because it war and kiss no happen in war unless you're the half of the main cast that are het."
3. Actual members of the LGBTQ+ community who are either such a big fan of the ship/show/company or who are so used to being forced to accept 'coding' as the only representation they might ever see, that they've come up with this excuse as a defense mechanism to let themselves be happy with whatever scraps they get. For as long as any of us have been alive, homosexuality has either been left off the screen, or used as an offensive punch-line designed to make the straight target demographic fear or mock us. So when we saw characters that *acted* the way we act, especially if we act that way because we're closeted, we subconsciously read into it that *they're hiding, too* and that's why it's fine that the show never actually makes it known that the character is LGBTQ+. 'It's fine that Blake and Yang are still being portrayed as 'secret' lovers who are so secret that even when they're alone together they still can't mention or express it because they're somehow aware of the fact that they're on TV and can't afford to out themselves to the audience. Because there's a war on. They'll 'come out' after the war's over, when they're not as busy. Until then, it's actually fine that they act the same way towards each other that Yang acts around Ruby. Pretending to be 'best friends who are close like sisters' is the perfect cover to keep them closeted. And anyway, the CRWBY writers and Rooster Teeth wouldn't really bait us. They support us. See? They said so in their newsletter. The fact that Renora have had multiple lines of dialogue during the last two volumes explicitly confirming their pairing as romantic, including an 'I love you,' and they've also had a kiss, during this exact wartime, doesn't matter. The bees touched foreheads. That's all we should expect from them anyway, so as far as I'm concerned, that's good enough for me.' Rooster Teeth has cultivated this parasocial "friendly neighborhood corporation" brand that has convinced a vast majority of their audience that they 'care' about them and 'love' them and everything they do is done 'for' them, and a lot of people eat that up. They think Rooster Teeth is their friend and ally. And so when Rooster Teeth says "by the way we're also totally for rainbows just like the tumblr icon and Disney banner in June," it's accepted, because 'friends don't lie, friends don't bait, friends don't exploit your identity for money.' So any content that contradicts Rooster Teeths empty words of allyship has to be recontextualized and justified and excused, in order to make it line up with the words "we're not homophobic." That's another time the war-time excuse can come in. "Rooster Teeth isn't baiting us on purpose. They just haven't confirmed it because people don't kiss during a war unless they're Jaune or Nora or Pyrrha or Ren."
So yeah. Obviously, I'm just one person with one perspective, so don't take what I say as fact or anything, but I do believe that those are the three biggest reasons someone might justify the lack of confirmed LGBTQ+ rep using the 'not the main focus' 'too busy to express feelings' 'war-time' excuse.
And since I don't think this gets brought up enough; quick reminder that only around 1% of the entire cast has been given on-screen confirmation as being part of the LGBTQ+ community, and of that one percent, only two characters are actually in a same-sex relationship, and in that relationship, they have not done anything romantic except hold hands while sitting a foot apart from each other.
We've got LGBTQ+ characters who are open with their identities on Disney, Nickelodeon, and Cartoon Network already. Creatives have had to fight tooth and nail to pave the way and get this community representation in these international syndicates, some of it having been on the screen as early as 2016, so it's no longer "good enough" for Rooster Teeth, who are largely self-governed, to give us four background characters who claim the identity without showing it.
This is why I call Rooster Teeth a homophobic company. The first three seasons of RWBY are so heteronormative and toxic that it honestly hurts to rewatch it sometimes, while the current seasons are five years behind the curve of progress as it is, but they still want the woke points, and they still pinch pennies from the LGBTQ+ community. There is more "BB confirmation" in the tagline of a jacket in the merch store than there has ever been in the show, and even then they were still careful to leave it vague and "up to interpretation."
Rooster Teeth is not your friend, and it's certainly not your ally. It's taking advantage of your artwork and fanfic to claim the points of "LGBTQ+ representation," relying on you to flood the tags with gifs and headcanons, letting you do all the groundwork of convincing everyone why the ship is real, basking in the glory of having Blake and Yang be included in third-party recommendation lists of "confirmed" queer characters, when in reality, the only on-screen indication that they've even so much as noticed each other is a list of interactions that beat-for-beat mirror interactions they wrote Yang to take with Ruby. Yang has winked at Blake AND Ruby. Yang has had deep and personal conversations with Blake AND Ruby. Yang has confided in Blake AND Ruby. Yang has gone off to search for and protect Blake AND Ruby. Yang has been physically affectionate with Blake AND Ruby. Yang has reacted to a threat by activating her semblance and rushing defensively towards said threat only to fall by the sword while trying to protect Blake AND Ruby.
It's not the LGBTQ+ community's fault that Rooster Teeth intentionally chose to write their story this way. But denying it because we know we deserve better and we don't want to admit that they're unwilling to give it to us, is just going to give them the freedom to keep doing it.
Rooster Teeth is homophobic. They might not *hate* us, but they don't want us in their cartoon. And after eight years of refusing to include us in a meaningful way and hoping we'll be content with side-characters who Tell-Don't-Show, in a time where they're being outclassed by Disney, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodeon, it's time we stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Having bees kiss in the volume 9 when Sun thinks Blake is dead and probably depressed as hell is all kinds of wrong. At least let them reunite first and get definitive closure before they make it canon.
alternative : blake gets with none of them & drowns in the sea around the magical tree island. i like this one.
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