#it's manwe loving hours 24/7

[valacirya]

The character game with Manwe?

One aspect about them I love

There are too many to name! I love his mercy and hope. I love his humility. I love how much he cares about Arda and the Children. I love how well-intentioned he is even when he makes mistakes. I love that he has no desire for power or authority. He's just so good. And it's hard for a good man to be a king.

One aspect I wish more people understood about them

His decision to release Melkor wasn't wrong within context. Tolkien states that Manwe can't see into others' minds or hearts and that Melkor was extremely convincing in his repentance. Within that context, Manwe's decision was just and an offer of the possibility of redemption. Maybe he should have known better or listened to the other Valar. But mercy and hope are central themes in Tolkien's work, and that was Manwe's motivation for releasing Melkor. He was giving his brother a choice. You don't close the doors of redemption on someone unless they do it themselves.

"If he spoke and said: this is true, he must be believed until proven false; if he said: this I will do, as you bid, he must be allowed the opportunity to fulfill his promise."

"If Melkor would usurp their rights, should they deny his? [...] Thus the merciless will ever count on mercy, and the liars make use of truth; for if mercy and truth are withheld from the cruel and the lying, they have ceased to be honored."

I highly recommend reading Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion and Osanwe-kenta for a better understanding of Manwe.

One (or more) headcanon(s) I have about this character

Not exactly a headcanon, but my face claim for him is Idris Elba in Thor Ragnarok.

One character I love seeing them interact with

Ulmo! They're best friends, they love each other!! It annoys me when fans pit them against each other and say Ulmo was the only one who cared about Arda when Tolkien explicitly says this: “Manwe and Ulmo have from the beginning been allied, and in all things have served most faithfully the purpose of Iluvatar.” 

One character I wish they would interact with/interact with more

Finarfin! I think their relationship would be fascinating.

One (or more) headcanon(s) I have that involve them and one other character

Manwe and Melkor were born of one thought, meant to balance each other and so keep Arda in balance. I like to think of them in the same way as the moon and ocean spirits in Avatar: "Tui and La, your moon and ocean, have always circled each other in an eternal dance. They balance each other: push and pull, life and death, good and evil, yin and yang."

#thanks for the ask! #manwe #it's manwe loving hours 24/7

[valacirya]

I’ve seen meta that analyzes Ulmo’s approach to elves and men vs Manwe’s approach. But in my opinion, there is no “versus”. Tolkien clearly states that Manwe and Ulmo have been allied from the beginning and served Eru’s purpose most faithfully. Manwe cares for the Children as much as Ulmo does, but he has to operate within the bounds of his position as Elder King and leader of the Valar, whereas Ulmo has no such constraints. I don’t think that Ulmo is even the “loyal opposition”, it’s just that he can do the things Manwe can’t, because of his foresight and his ability to understand evil and act as a (relatively) free agent. 

Also, even though he rarely exercises it, Manwe has the ultimate power and authority over the rest of the Valar, including Ulmo, which means that Ulmo’s actions were at the very least allowed and most likely approved by Manwe.

#it's manwe loving hours 24/7 #he's just so good #and it's hard for a good man to be a king #manwe #ulmo

[valacirya]

Do you have any thoughts on what Manwë would have been like as a dark lord? I completely agree he would have been scarier

-@outofangband

Thank you for the ask!

Okay so, in my thoughts, Manwe would become corrupted in the process of fighting Melkor (I think that's what Tolkien meant when he said any one of the Valar could have followed Melkor's path). So in this verse, you'd have the two oldest and most powerful Valar fighting each other, and this time Manwe wouldn't care about collateral damage.

Now, Manwe is weaker than Melkor, but he's not weak. His control over the weather is pretty scary and if he became a dark lord, he would use it against Melkor, wreaking havoc on Middle Earth in the process. Not only that, Melkor had spies everywhere but they could get caught/found out. What could anyone hide from Manwe when every winged creature answered to him?

I firmly believe that Melkor would be more powerful and more evil than any corrupted version of Manwe, but here's what would make Manwe more terrifying: people would follow him willingly. Melkor is the Bad Guy, with some motivation but not much nuance, and he is pretty much alone. Everyone hates him, including his own servants. But Manwe is the King of Arda, and the Valar are utterly loyal to him. Most of them would follow him to the Dark Side (maybe not Nienna or Ulmo or even Varda, but what can they do when Namo Keeper of the Dead and Irmo Master of Dreams and Aule the Maker are Corrupted). Manwe wouldn’t need to create orcs when he has an army of Ainur and Eldar who genuinely believe in him. He wouldn’t need to torture and destroy when he and his siblings could change the very essence of who you are. I think in this verse, the only resistance to both sides would come from Men who, as always, would suffer the most. 

Here’s the thing: Dark Lord Manwe would still be Manwe. He’d still be benevolent and merciful. Everything he’d do would be “for the greater good, to fulfill Eru’s Plan”. Melkor, Sauron, and Saruman were plain evil, and that made it easy for the Free Peoples of Arda to resist them at least mentally/spiritually. But under Dark Lord Manwe, there would be no Free Peoples left. 

Manwe is one of my favorite characters, and I love him because he’s not simply good. That line about him not comprehending evil can’t be taken at face value. Manwe has to make an effort and work to be good, because he does have a lot of the same traits as Melkor (control, possessiveness, wrath); in fact, the not comprehending evil is what makes him scarier, because if he ever became Corrupted, he would still think that he’s doing Good (Melkor had no such delusions). So yeah, I firmly believe that Tolkien wrote Manwe as fighting against and restraining his own Self so that he wouldn’t become like Melkor. Because there are plenty of instances in canon that show Manwe not as the Elder King, but as the brother of Melkor, born of One Thought.   

#it's manwe loving hours 24/7 #even when he's a dark lord #manwe

[valacirya]

Manwe, Ulmo and Aule for the silm characters bingo?

Thanks for the ask!!

Manwe

I mean, my tag for him is "it's loving manwe hours 24/7", so that tells you all you need to know lol.

Ulmo & Aule

I call myself a Valar stan, but really I'm just a Manwe stan. Aule is objectively interesting as the Vala most similar to Melkor, but I don't have a lot of thoughts about him. With Ulmo, I'm only interested in his dynamic with Manwe. Otherwise he's not a compelling character for me, he's just the dude who's always right, he doesn't have any internal struggle. I will admit that my disinterest is also a reaction to fandom sort of portraying Ulmo as the only "good" Vala and saying he would have made a better king than Manwe.

#manwe #aule #ulmo

[valacirya]

This may be considered an unpopular opinion, but I think Manwe’s decision to pardon Melkor was also a form of estel. Manwe genuinely, truly hoped that Melkor was on the path to redemption, even when none of the other Valar (except Nienna) did. And here’s the thing; I don’t think Manwe was being naive or imprudent, even if the consequences of his actions were disastrous. He was giving Melkor a chance, the first and only chance he’d get. More than that, he was giving his brother a choice, because even Melkor deserved that. Manwe’s pardon was completely in line with some of the central themes in Tolkien’s work: mercy and hope.  

#it's manwe loving hours 24/7 #gandalf was a maia of manwe too remember #manwe

[valacirya]

Lots of people have talked about the Eagles but you know what’s underrated? Manwe’s power over air and wind and the little moments in LotR where it becomes evident. 

“And as the captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell.”

Actually, Manwe works with air a lot like Ulmo does with water, only we as readers tend to ignore it because air is not as visibly impressive as water or earth or fire (but it is essential, just like Manwe himself). 

#it's manwe loving hours 24/7 #i ship him with ulmo and the complete absence of fic makes me very sad #manwe