#oh my god this got both long and like... really unhappy about sam/ruby and his mental state during that arc

[dyed-red]

How do you think Sam felt about having sex with Ruby’s vessel? Did he need to rationalize that to himself or just the fact that Ruby was a demon?

this is such a delicious ask, i'm sorry it's taken me a while to get to.

there's just so much going on when it comes to sam/ruby. i draw a lot from comments from others on this, specifically those who are more familiar with the production and things the producers have said over the years in interviews. two things i've read as insights from the creative team (i think mostly from sera gamble?) are that:

it was important to sam that ruby's vessel was empty, otherwise that sex wouldn't/couldn't have happened (i think sera gamble had to fight for this or push its importance to her male co-creatives?)

sleeping with ruby was a form of "self harm" for sam.

I'm not sure where/how to find the original sources for those quotes as they're secondhand things I've read on tumblr about things said at cons and through other sources, but I fold both into my read on how Sam felt about having sex with Ruby and with her vessel.

So - to answer your actual question -

he felt like shit about it. and continued to feel like shit about it. and continued to do it. because he was in an incredibly self-destructive space and continued to be, and that self-hatred manifested in this particular way, for a variety of reasons.

And to unpack that a bit more...

1. sam has been possessed (by meg). he knows how it feels, and it Does Not Feel Good. his body was used to hurt people he cares about, to kill.

2. sam is consistently concerned about possessed vessels, where practicable. in the precinct seige during Jus In Bello, the fact that the "kill the virgin" spell could blast the demons out of the many possessed people outside is important to him. where dean reads the situation as killing an innocent woman, sam reads it as saving a few dozen people (at the cost of one, rather than the potential cost of many others if they try to shoot their way out). neither perspectives are singularly right but their different perspectives are informed by their different experiences, imo.

3. sam is saved by ruby wearing her 1.5 vessel and he promptly berates her for wearing some poor woman's skin, even if she saved his life, tells her that he doesn't want her help, and to get out of the car. he literally leaves her by the side of the road.

4. ruby 2.0 shows up with a certificate to verify that her chosen vessel is empty except for her. sam does not argue nor slam the door in her face, but asks for details. it's a major shift from one scene to the next in terms of how he is responding to her.

i'll also note that sam didn't complain about her 1.0 vessel's occupant during the time they were getting to know one another, which i think is interesting. my personal read is that sam considered that acceptable collateral damage in order to save dean from hell (what ruby promised him in season 3), and that after she failed to deliver, this compromise he'd made with himself over that collateral damage was no longer in play, nor was his patience for her.

(side note: i wonder if sam's greater tolerance of crowley, eventually, is because he came to learn or understand at some point that crowley's vessel is similarly empty?)

anyway, bringing all those points together, my read is that sam had to do a lot of self-rationalizing when it came to sleeping with ruby's vessel. sam is nothing if not pragmatic (if unhinged and insane) in his approach to dilemmas, so i think he could and did rationalize to himself that the body being empty means he's not hurting anyone by having sex with ruby in that form, but i don't think he'd fully convince himself.

so the discomfort and guilt and self-loathing would be... intense. she's a demon. demons killed his mother, his father, his brother. everyone he's ever loved. she saved his life. he doesn't trust her, he can't trust her. he can't afford not to trust her. he's got nothing left to lose. the only thing he has left is the part of himself that's stayed on the straight and narrow, that respects dean's dying wish, that refuses to turn into whatever his family (his brother) tried (died) to save him from becoming.

(sam himself lies to dean and says "it was practically your dying wish" that he not do exactly he's been doing (and more). sam knows there's betrayal here, and it's a betrayal that matters to him personally, or else he wouldn't hide and lie about it. he's never had any issue picking fights if/when he thinks he has the moral high ground.)

so... yeah. sleeping with ruby is an act of self-harm. he's obviously attracted to her vessel, and to her personality as ruby in that vessel, but that's not the key point. the key point is he hates himself for failing to save dean, for his brother dying because of him and being in hell because of him, and he's literally suicidal at this point in the narrative.

the fact that her vessel is empty is incredibly important, and i think a line he couldn't cross otherwise, but that doesn't mean he's okay with the fact that he's actually having sex with the body of someone who hasn't consented. and there's no doubt in my mind that somewhere in the back of his mind is both the fact that he's been possessed and has had his body used for things he was Not Okay with, and the fact that he's been dead (an empty vessel) and it's not like he would have been okey dokey with a demon possessing his corpse and sleeping with someone.

he knows it's a violation, no matter which way he slices it. and he uses that fact to hate himself a little more, so that the very act of sleeping with ruby is, in a sense, a way to punish himself for:

a) being attracted to her as a demon,

b) being attracted to her (helpless, innocent) vessel,

c) wanting connection because he's so goddamn lonely, and

d) being a monster/freak in the first place.

these are either things he's not supposed to feel because they're sinful wrong (attraction to a demon or vessel), or he deserves them (loneliness, feeling like a freak). this is what he's convinced himself of, and therefore how ruby acts as a both balm and escape (how it feels, how she soothes him) and punishment (how he deserves the influx of self-loathing and guilt and shame that comes from all that he is doing with her, from how this verifies all the worst parts of himself he was afraid of).

that being said -- as it goes i think he suppresses those feelings more and more because of what he gets from being with her, the connection and the blood and the high and the power and the sense of control over his destiny. but it's never that far from the surface, and we know how all that goes.

#oh my god this got both long and like... really unhappy about sam/ruby and his mental state during that arc #read at your own risk #sam/ruby #like that being said none of this is anti or crit #i goddamn love sam/ruby #but it is... deeply toxic #and very unhealthy for him #which is kind of the whole point #meta #my meta #a bit overwrought but i'm out of time to reread edit so here we are