#that should have been clear the moment robyn told us the supplies for Amity were stolen | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

kob131 · 4 years

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https://itsclydebitches.tumblr.com/post/613974327525883904/one-of-the-worst-parts-of-the-entire-volume-7

One of the worst parts of the entire Volume 7 clusterfuck is that by not saying any of the truth about Salem team RWBY has actively helped Salem more than any other person or group in the entirety of the show through a single action and even with the Ace Ops and Ironwood "turning" on them there really is no acknowledgement of the sheer horror that should be had at what they did. They chose to let an entire nation of people blindly march off to their deaths and they have the moral high ground?

Because they didn’t, seeing as they told the truth later on. And wouldn’t Ironwood turning on them BE the sheer horror after how much we got to know him?

It really does confuse me. So many people are insisting that Ironwood is the one causing division because:

Oh this should be good.

He’s taking resources from Mantle… to build a means of uniting the whole world, an action that he believes will eliminate the Salem problem completely.

And Ozpin lied to try and unite the world and give it hope: he still lied and shouldn’t have done that because he never considered how damaging that would be to his cause. Just like Ironwood not helping Mantle wouldn’t work if Mantle’s a god damn ghost town.

He refuses to work with Robyn… even though he doesn’t refuse, merely points out that they both need to find common ground for an alliance to work, while she’s the one proving that he was right to mistrust her (stealing supplies, spying on his projects, trying to use her semblance in front of Jacques, immediately abandoning Ironwood the moment he makes a decision she doesn’t like).

They HAD common ground: Help the people. You even admit she worked with the man the moment he proved he was trying to help. And guess what caused her to side against him? Him trying to arrest Qrow (in her eyes, an innocent man) and DITCHING MANTLE.

He arrests Team RWBY… because they made it clear they wouldn’t support him first. They’re the ones who broke this alliance, telling him in no uncertain terms that if he didn’t do things their way they would stand against him. More importantly, they broke that alliance weeks ago by lying to him and keeping secrets right at the start. If RWBYJNR doesn’t trust Ozpin because of those lies why in the world would they expect Ironwood to trust them? Throw in Blake and Yang betraying him again and it’s clear that they were never willing to work with him. They’re only willing to use him as a resource that follows their orders, free of compromise.

... You wanna know what kills your argument before you even make it?

Being biased.

‘he didn’t do things their way’ = ‘Leaving Mantle to die to save Atlas’

‘keeping secrets right at the start’ = ‘Ironwood did the same thing with Amity’

‘’They’re only willing to use him as a resource’ = ‘Ironwood is making a decision that fundamentally goes against Team RWBY’s and his own principles.’

This whole post so far has been blaming other people or making excuses for Ironwood’s own decisions and their consequences. For people who bitch at the ones defending Team RWBY for doing, you sure are comfortable doing it yourself.

The only thing Ironwood has done to arguably divide people is decide to leave with Atlas and, as I’ve pointed out extensively elsewhere, that’s a matter of trying to save some in the face of inevitable destruction.

An ‘inevitable destruction’ they don’t know is ‘inevitable’.

What does it matter if the Kingdom is divided if the entire Kingdom is dead

Because he’s been preaching ‘save everyone’ for the whole Volume, it’s his duty as a public servant and leaving people to die will just make everyone angry and distrustful of him...which will lead them to die ANYWAY.

That’s the same issue we’ve seen in regards to his supposed dictator choices, like having a curfew and letting his robots roam the streets. Does that feel like an unpleasant thing that may infringe on people’s individual rights? Yep. Is that helping to ensure that people don’t get eaten by grimm? Yep.

Because authoritarian dictators have never used a crisis to seize power and not like America, the country PRODUCING RWBY, is fundamentally against this shit.

If you want a current semi-comparative example, look to the regulations in place due to Corvid-19. There are people going, “You can’t make me stay home. It’s my right to go wherever I please. It’s not right to demand that I stay indoors/give up my vacation/not leave the state/etc. because I am entitled to those freedoms.” But of course the obvious push-back to that is, "These rules are in place to help keep everyone alive.

At the cost of making them miserable and distrusting in the government, which leads to people ignoring ALL Covid regulations, even the non-invasive ones, and then people start dying again but no one cares at that point because they feel the government has ignored and abused them. Kind of like what happened with Ironwood and Mantle, as Mantle became hostile towards him as he never tried to understand or compromise with them.

Sometimes people in power claim that there are justified reasons for their infringements on peoples’ rights when in fact those reasons are total BS, but I don’t think Ironwood is one of those cases.

You’re so biased for the guy I doubt you would admit it even if you though Ironwood was like that. And even then, so called ‘justified reasons’ still aren’t reasons to infringe on people’s rights.

It’s a matter of, “You might not like having robots in the street but they’re there so they can at best take out grimm and worst buy you time to run away,” which is precisely what we saw when the group first arrived.

And then they all got fucked when said regulations caused such a volatile state that when Jacques took advantage, it began a chain reaction that caused the Grimm to attack and everything in the climax to happen.

If Ironwood wanted to be a dictator he would have declared martial law ages ago. Instead his thinking has always been balanced between what is right and what is practical: what do I need to do to keep my people alive? They can be pissed at me all they want, but at least they exist to be pissed.

You don’t need a want to make mistakes and do bad shit: all it takes is being misguided. Ironwood never shows he considers what is right, only what is practical within the boundaries he thinks is right. He never listened to others until before Salem and it continuously costed him.

You know, for as much flak he got, Ozpin shows why his way worked better than Ironwood. Yeah he lied to but he also considered the feelings of others, he listened to them, he accepted their arguments and went out of his way to try and accommodate them. Because of this, even now, everyone is still loyal to him in some way. They’re all chasing flawed versions of Ozpin’s way, because the man lived long enough to see the path that was best.

Like we’re going, “Yes, we will fine you for leaving your house without a permit so you don’t contract and spread this deadly disease.” Ironwood is going, "Yes, I will require that you keep the streets clear so that you don’t draw in and get eaten by these deadly creatures.”

And then the people said “We don’t care anymore, you have shown us no reason to trust you.”

You cannot ignore the people’s wishes forever without consequence.

The blurry line between protection and infringement will always be debated, but to my mind Team RWBY’s perspective is far too much on the other side of things.

Cool, you’ve proceeded to understand HALF the conflict. 50% is still a failing grade though.

It’s dangerously naive.

Same with you. Meanwhile, Ironwood is dangerously pessimistic, disregarding others viewpoints and feelings to march ahead, never realizing he’ll never reach his goal because his methods destroyed any chance at it. Down to even ignoring a fundamental aspect of human nature.

They want to win this war without anyone going through any hardship and, while noble, that’s just not possible.

... Yang lost an arm and they’ve watched people DIE.

That is HIGHLY reductionist of their view.

hey can wish and strive for that all they want, but so long as that keeps them from making logical decisions—like saving at least some of the Kingdom when you have no plan to avoid total annihilation—then they’re hurting more than they’re helping.

Meanwhile, Ironwood can make all the ‘practical’ decisions he wants, but as long as he continues to ignore fundamental aspects of human nature, like opposing oppression even if it means mutual destruction, he can’t save anyone.

Ironwood, like Ozpin, understands that winning any war, let alone a war against an enemy like Salem, is going to be rife with hard and messy choices. Which means that there will always be division.

And Ozpin went out of his way to ensure UNITY. He tried to be as honest as he could be with people, consider their feelings, stand by his principles.

Let me ask you: Why doesn’t Ozpin just take away four baby girls from their parents and raise them to be the Maidens as his undeniably loyal underlings? Lock the Maidens away so no one can ever get to them, thus preventing their power from falling into the wrong hands? Why doesn’t he just declare open war on Salem and sacrifice countless lives to forever keep her in check?

Why doesn’t Ozpin act like a worse version of Ironwood?

Because he knows better than to do this.

here’s literally no choice in existence that keeps everyone happy and safe and never feeling any negative feelings about the shit storm raging around them. Salem wins in that regard simply by virtue of the fact that life is hard and life isn’t fair. Accepting that hardships will exist and trying to mitigate the damage from them doesn’t make Ironwood a villain and it certainly doesn’t make him as bad as Salem.

Yeah, it just makes him as bad as the people he turned against.

The person causing division as an inevitable byproduct of trying to save the entire world is not the same thing as the woman trying to wipe out that world.

It does make him as bad as his predecessor.

Yeah, remember the Great War in RWBY? The one that started because of events in Mantle. Events that infringed on the citizen’s rights for survival’s sake and it did the opposite, causing a fuckton of death and destruction?

Yeah, Ironwood is doing the SAME BASIC THING the King of Mantle did. He’s REPEATING his land’s own mistakes.

When you ask that Ironwood be seen as the good guy here, you ask that people not only ignore events in the show, events in real life, the foundation of the country RWBY is made in, the foundation of the show itself but the foundation of the people he’s trying to save.

That doesn’t work.

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