#this is from a commentary bonus episode of a dnd podcast called

[thecindercrow]

I keep thinking about these three minutes of thoughts on character and story writing, particularly for putting your character through bad stuff for the sake of the story, but finding the appropriate scale and connection for emotional reactions

Transcript under the cut

Matt: Not to get into the whole ‘what I think is wrong with movies nowadays’, but like honestly one of my favorite things about VGHS season one is we had people like seven episodes in be like “This show’s too mean to Brian D”. And to me that was always the best storytelling. To me the author is -- that was the Cameron Crowe problem. Cameron Crowe loves his characters too much, so nothing fucking happens to them and it’s boring as shit! And frankly, that’s why Marvel movies suck to me, is like nothing bad is ever going to happen to them! I think an author has to love their characters, but also needs to be the devil that fucking hates their characters more than anything and throws everything at them because that’s what a story is... Anthony: (crosstalk) That’s why Spider-Man 2′s so good. Matt: Yeah, Spider-Man 2 is just shitting on the characters nonstop, and then the characters still beat the author. And the author [unclear], but anyways -- Anthony: [crosstalk] Or even like -- Matt: I think you have to be mean to your characters, like that’s what storytelling is. Anthony: I think, uh, it’s not really a spoiler, but Ted Lasso and things like that, my favorite kind of storytelling is: horrible things happen to somebody and it’s about them trying to - not necessarily spin it in a positive way, ‘cause that sounds dishonest in some way, but like - can you maintain the things that make you you in the face of horrible shit happening? Freddie: [crosstalk] In the face of this, yeah. [A round of “yeah”s] Freddie: That Paddington energy, dog. Anthony: Paddington, yeah! Paddington’s a great example of that. Will: Oh, Paddington, oh my god... Matt: Yeah, the tone doesn’t have to be viscious, ‘cause like the worst thing can be, depending on the thing -- Will: [crosstalk] You don’t want it to be misery porn. Matt: Paddington is fun, still. Oh, he’s in prison with a bunch of nice people. Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. Matt: But it’s still the worst thing to happen to Paddington. Freddie: Because Paddington got separated! [some crosstalk agreement] Matt: Exactly, that’s my point. Will: Well that’s, again, it also is about the right heat. Scale matters so much less than connection, right? Where the -- Beth: (referencing a moment earlier in the episode) You wouldn’t slit Paddington’s throat. [laughter] Will: Exactly! Matt: You wouldn’t kill his family. Will: That - Kiki fucking, like, the girl slamming the door in Kiki’s face - which is, objectively, nothing bad happens - that is sadder than characters dying in other movies. Freddie: No, it’s true. Will: That’s another thing that I think is so key to storytelling, is understanding what story you’re telling and how to make something devastating and small, or you know, triumphant and small. It doesn’t all have to be... Scale does not buy you what you think it does. Matt: Well it’s just... For example, slitting Paddington’s family’s throat in front of him would be the worst thing that happens but it wouldn’t be emotionally - it would just be trauma! [laughter] Matt: Whereas that’s not a story about Paddington. Him getting separated from his family is literally the worst thing that could happen to the character Paddington in the story. Will: Yes. Like them not showing up for his birthday, and you’re like ‘oh my god!’ Freddie: Augh, it hurts even thinking about it. Will: Oh no! Freddie: That hurts even thinking about it, dog! Will: And he thinks that they forgot about him! You’re like ‘oh my god!’ Matt: Like when the worst thing that happens in John Wick is when that new actor that shows up halfway through the movie who is also his friend or something and then he gets shot instead, what is his name? Daniel Day whatever... Will: Daniel Day Lewis? Anthony: Willem Dafoe. Matt: Willem Dafoe, yeah. Those movies... I hate those movies. Beth: Oh man, or like in A Goofy Movie, very kind of low stakes, right? But when Max throws that fucking hat out the window, and you know that they can’t turn around and go get - oh! It fucking kills me. Anthony: Or when he says “Left” and you see that shot of Goofy just looking fucking depressed ‘cause he knows his son just betrayed him to take him to the Powerline concert. Beth: Yeah, oh god. Matt: I don’t think the whole movie works, but - I liked it a lot, but to me the reason Wreck-It Ralph -- Will: Yes, I was about to say Wreck-It Ralph! Matt: That second act is one of the best second act turns of any of those movies - Will: When he breaks the - Matt: Because it’s the cruelest - Will: When he breaks her car that they just built! Matt: He literally destroys her car! And then he’s lost the only friend - Anyways, just - Anthony: But he’s doing it for the right reason, and... Matt: Yeah, it’s just. Throw shit at your characters. Beth: Slit your character’s throat. Matt: Emotional throat! Anthony: Slit. Their. Throat. Freddie: Emotional. Anthony: Drink. The. Blood.

#this is from a commentary bonus episode of a dnd podcast called #dungeons and daddies #which you've probably seen me post about before #but in case you don't know all the players are professional writers for different media #so it's always neat to hear them get going with their thoughts on this stuff #not sure how else to tag this but it puts a finger on why some things in media work really well and some things fall flat for me #and I want to try to be more aware of it when I'm engaging with a story and its characters #like some of it sounds obvious maybe but some of it is also nice to hear in definitive words and it clicks #also yes this is from patreon content. let this be a teaser for you. signing up was so worth it