lurksunderthebed

[lurksunderthebed]

Ghoap Analysis/Meta (2.5)

The Evolution of GhostSoap Redux

Finally finishing Codmwii (22), via discussion of "Ghost Team" and "Countdown".

Discussing Ghost's face reveal and what it means to his character motivations/backstory.

Part (2.5/?) out of a series.

Brief mentions of MWIII. Practically spoiler free.

Please read the Alt text.

As I said more or less in my previous post, "Ghost Team" and "Countdown" doesn't have as many GhostSoap interactions by virtue of having the whole gang altogether again.

But what we do have however is the final evolution of Ghost as Trusting Teammate Ghost and a teasing look at our favourite masked character's face.

In this post, there'll be less analysis based on dialogue and more speculation/assumptions so take that as you may.

So let's look at "Ghost Team".

Ghost Team

Price: Alright, listen - We are taking back your HQ. We are getting our prisoner. We are killing Commander Graves.

Rodolfo: When?

Ghost: Now.

Price: This is a fight against our own... We are not 141 and Los Vaqueros on this. We're a team...

Ghost empties a bag full of skull masks onto the table.

Price: ...Ghost Team.

Ghost removes his mask in front of everyone, although the camera shows only the back of his head. Price nods and smiles at Ghost.

Price: Good to see you again, Simon.

Price removes his boonie hat.

Price: If you're in, take a mask... If you're not... Don't.

Everyone around the table takes a skull mask. The camera circles around Rodolfo, Gaz, Soap, Alejandro, Price, and finally Ghost as they put on their masks.

"Ghost Team" is bluntly named after Ghost finally deciding, hey these are all trustworthy guys and I'll show you the proof of my trust, by extending trust via face reveal. It's an extension of his previous statement in "Prison Break" that, "We're a team... all of us". It's like a switch with Ghost; once he decides to trust someone, to really consider them as Team, he proves it with his actions.

I know many out there were disappointed by Ghost showing his face to everyone, in fact I was too. In some ways it does feel a bit like whiplash to have Ghost struggle so hard to trust Soap and then in a span of 16 traumatic hours, he takes off his mask in front of all everyone. Remember this isn't just Rudy/Ale and 141, this is also a bunch of random soldiers from Los Vaqueros who were imprisoned seeing his face.

So why does he do that? And more importantly, does Ghost actually trust all of Los Vaqueros and Gaz as much as he now comes to trust Soap and Price?

To answer that we have to look at why Ghost might have decided to take off his mask, his thought process on doing so and the events leading up to this.

Let's go back to the cutscene before the whole reveal:

These are two separate frames that we are shown while Price is talking to Shepherd. We have Soap, Gaz, Alejandro and Ghost listening in.

Now this is again all interpretation and assumptions, but if you look closely, Ghost is noticeably a fair distance away from the rest of the gang.

For a guy who is extending a lot of trust by showing his face in the next scene, it's interesting that he's still framed as a man somewhat separate from the bunch. I know the framing was partially because showing all 4 men distinctly would mean placing them neatly like that.

But putting that aside, they could've placed Ghost closer to Soap. He could've taken Alejandro's spot on the opposite side of the table. It would make sense to group all of 141 closer together. Ghost has worked with Gaz since 2020 in Verdansk. They've known each other for 2 years already while Ghost has only known Alejandro (and los Vaqueros) for a whopping 5 days.

Again, they didn't. Personally, given how much the game relies on framing to indirectly inform players of character relationships, I'm going to read into this probably deeper than it's supposed to be.

One way to look at it, is that Ghost still isn't completely trusting of the rest. He still holds himself apart from the rest. Physical positioning actually does matter when we look at Ghost because 9 out of 10 times it isn't what Ghost is saying that matters insofar as what the man is actually DOING that determines his motivations.

It says a lot that the game decided to frame Soap and Gaz together and yet Ghost isn't placed closer to Price nor Soap—the two men we know he is the closest to.

Potentially, we can infer that Ghost taking off his mask in the next scene was a bigger leap of faith than thought before.

Ghost has decided to trust men (random Los Vaqueros) that he maybe hasn't personally talked to before. It's quite the jump, especially since we know that he STILL holds himself apart from everyone (even Price&Soap).

There's a couple ways we can look at why Ghost decided to do the face reveal.

Maybe Ghost showing his face happens more than we think and that's why it was so easy for him to reveal his face? Perhaps Ghost freely takes off his mask on his downtime and only truly cares about it being on or off while he's working.

It's possible. There's no way to determine Ghost's actions outside of him on duty. But even that doesn't fit right with the fact that we see him all masked up and bundled in layers in the bar scene at the end of this game and at the end of MWIII. Both times he could've gone with something more casual looking and less anon if he truly was someone a bit different than how he presents himself on the job.

Granted, the times we do see him in a more casual context, he's with his co-workers so it's not quite the fairest assumption to make. Perhaps he separates who he is with people who know him as Ghost with who he is when people don't.

But given what we have and what we already know of the man, I think it's fair to assume that how Ghost is in-game is probably how he acts when he's off duty.

After all, the one person (Price) who knows Ghost as both, the LT still isn't that close to. There's respect and trust but the casual joking friendship you see between Price and Laswell isn't there. That might be more on the fact that Price is still Ghost's superior so maybe the man just likes to keep their relationship on a strictly hierarchical basis. (Yes, I know Ghost jokes at Price in MWIII, but that was arguably more for Soap and also at Price's expense).

We know that showing his face isn't something Ghost does habitually. Soap hasn't seen it before and they've worked together for 3 years already, 2 of which they were in the SAME taskforce. They had to have seen each other a fair bit considering that Soap, Ghost and Gaz are apparently the only 141 operatives.

If there were more 141 operatives, I would expect them to come out in MWIII especially with the whole Makarov/brink of war thing, so unless any new info comes out I'm assuming that 141 is just Price, Ghost, Soap and Gaz with random loaned soldiers to pad their ranks when needed on missions.

So why does Ghost decide to take off his mask if him showing his face isn't a casual thing when he's off duty, nor does he fully trust PEOPLE as a whole?

Honestly, I see this as a massive leap of faith/hope and Ghost wanting to see things done right this time around.

As I said previously where I somewhat go into Ghost's backstory, there's an implication with Mace's inclusion that there was/is a unit of 'Ghost' styled operatives who might have all worn the ghost mask. Added with the fact that the reboot likes to take a lot of character depth from the older popular games in the franchise, it's not a stretch to assume Mace and Ghost being teammates are a nod to Ghost squad in cod: ghosts.

We know there was a betrayal of sorts, potentially one that might have involved those fellow ghosts. Mace left the unit and there's an ominous, "things are very different now" statement by the dev about Ghost and Mace's time as teammates.

Perhaps the title "Ghost Team" wasn't so much named after the man, Simon "Ghost" Riley, but rather after the 'Ghost' unit that Ghost and Mace were on.

Maybe Price calling them all "Ghost Team" was actually referencing that unit.

This is based on assumptions but hear me out.

We know Price obviously knows what Ghost looks like. The captain references the LT by name a couple times before: when talking about him to Laswell in the ending scene in 2019, in Verdansk (via comms) in 2020 and now here after Ghost takes off his mask. There's a relationship in between the lines that suggests that Price knew him before Simon Riley ever became Ghost.

Therefore we can also assume that Price also knows what happened to Ghost and potentially the details of that unnamed unit as his current direct superior. With Price's connections and his casual disregard for rules, I'd be surprised if he wasn't familiar with that hypothetical Ghost squad.

I think the biggest nod to this, is Price having on hand a bunch of skull balaclavas. He could've gone with plain balaclavas if just being anonymous was the concern, but didn't; the choice of a skull pattern was deliberate. This was potentially planned out prior to Price's rescue of the group in "Prison Break".

Unless Ghost just randomly keeps 6+ extra skully balaclavas on his body at all times, it's most likely Price that brought the balaclavas with him.

There probably wasn't enough time for Ghost to communicate to Price of Shepherd's betrayal and thus their need to hide their faces to fight the general. In "Alone", the LT even mentions it to Soap that they have to rely on themselves and not Price or Laswell. Heck at that point, Ghost didn't even trust Laswell. Only Price, Soap and everyone that got betrayed was deemed 'safe'.

I suppose Ghost could have sent a message to Price that they were going to break Alejandro out at the safehouse, but I'm not entirely sure there was enough time for that between everything that happened and Soap's injury. Plus Ghost and Soap were surprised to hear Price on comms. If Ghost was sure Price was going to show up, I doubt he would hide it from Rudy. And even if he knew the captain would come, it's likely he would change their plan to factor in Price's arrival. Therefore we can say that this was most likely all Price's initial plan. Not Ghost's.

Price clearly knew that to defeat Graves and Shepherd, they would have to 'go dark' so to speak. Obviously showing their faces would make the group war criminals. Naturally that meant they would have to emulate a unit that was probably well known to do missions completely anonymously without any country, rules of engagement, or signifier outside the skull mask. An international unit that carried out presumably the blackest of ops would be a perfect fit.

And to make it even more authentic, they have a member who was/is a part of that special group. Now the title of a game serves two purposes. Referencing Ghost's change from lone wolf to teammate as well as a call back to cod: ghosts.

So again, if this was Price's idea why does Ghost go along with it?

Well harking back to what I said earlier, it's assumed that Ghost has been betrayed by potentially his own ghostly teammates.

Ghost coming up to this point had no idea anyone other than Price, Soap and Los Vaqueros were trustworthy.

But then the events of "Alone" and "Prison Break" happen and Ghost sees Laswell being, "still solid as a rock". He gets rescued by Price unexpectedly. Soap shows that outsiders can be trusted by proving Ghost wrong about all his initial suppositions. Everything Ghost said to caution Soap— them not being able to rely on Price, them not trusting Laswell, Soap surviving, all of them were proven false.

And from seeing that, perhaps the man decides he wants to overturn his past experiences with betrayal to something better. Because now Ghost has hope. What else could he be proven wrong about?

This hodgepodge ghost squad might be a catharsis for Ghost in the sense that this time, he can get some revenge for being betrayed. He can have solid 'ghost team' members who have his back (unlike previously). He can let himself have a team again, with all the vulnerable trust that is implied with letting himself be a part of a team.

So Ghost taking off the mask makes more sense when we look at it as him trying to redo his own past as well. He is asking the rest of them to trust him by extending trust back (by showing his face).

But again that's just a theory. A video game theory.😎

I could be very wrong with everything here. It could just as well be as simple as Ghost after finding love trust from Soap, is so moved by the power of love trust that he felt compelled to take the next step in teamhoodness. Again, by asking the bunch to trust him by showing his identity.

The masks and the naming could just be based on Ghost and his apparently infamous legend. The guy has a bit of an ego about his skills. Maybe this plan was hatched by Ghost and Price together, and the LT wanted his ego stroked by having everyone dress up as him.

I also wouldn't put it past the man to randomly have 6 spare balaclavas on him at all times. He wears SKELETON GLOVES for god's sake. The guy is truly committed to the bit. Maybe he really is that eccentric/well prepared.

Who knows.

What we do have however, is the fact that Ghost taking off his mask was an action of trust and vulnerability. An action that wouldn't have happened without Soap being there and being his snarky lovable self.

Without Soap proving himself and working together with Ghost it's doubtful whether the LT would've opened up enough to show his face.

But enough of that. Lets talk GhostSoap interactions. It's sparse but boy do they stare at each other like no tomorrow.

It does feel a bit like grasping at straws to go, 'THEY'RE STARING AT EACH OTHER YOUR HONOUR. THAT MEANS ITS DEFFO LOVE!!! LOOK AT THEM SPARKS FLY!!!!'

But we've already established that stares are a form of wordless communication between the two. The game did it forcibly, by framing shots in each other's perspectives CONSTANTLY. This isn't the only time they've been long gazing into each other's eyes for an amount of time that would normally be uncomfortable for anyone else.

Soap is placed directly across from Ghost. The game wanted us to see Soap's expression when it pans teasingly behind Ghost's back and you're only left seeing Gaz, Soap, Alejandro and Price. This was all deliberate.

From start to finish, Soap barely takes his eyes off of Ghost. Even when Price is explaining things, Soap is very obviously looking Ghost's way. And Ghost is quite obviously staring back at Soap.

What could they be communicating between them here?

Well from Soap's expression on the third picture, it kind of looks like the sergeant is grinning. No doubt thinking back on his words where he flirts tells Ghost to show his face. Maybe Soap is stuck on the truth of Ghost's boasting. That Ghost really isn't an ugly guy at all. Quite the opposite indeed.

Really, it could be a multitude of things. One thing for certain is that we can see that they're both caught on each other from the very start of the conversation.

The funniest thing is that this isn't the first and last time we see Ghost and Soap seemingly ignore everything around them but each other. It happens in the cutscene in "Alone", here in "Ghost Team" and later in MWIII multiple times.

We can sort of excuse it here because this is the very first time Soap gets a look at Ghost's face in 3 years of working with each other. Anyone would be staring like the other would disappear in that circumstance.

Every other time though? Yeah... It suggests something very non-platonic in nature about their relationship. Let's not forget that they only really do this with each other. Not Gaz nor Price elucidates this sort of behaviour from either man. Both of them have a staring habit but it only seems to activate when the other is there.

Unfortunately, this whole cutscene was pretty much it for notable Ghost and Soap interactions in this mission. As I said earlier, "Ghost Team" doesn't have a lot of meaningful GhostSoap interactions. That can be said of "Countdown" as well, but we do get a few choice bits.

Let's look at "Countdown":

Countdown

Rodolfo closes the vehicle door as he and Alejandro turn to Soap.

Alejandro: Go... You have work to do.

Soap shakes hands with Alejandro and Rodolfo.

Soap: Keep fighting the good fight, hermano.

Alejandro: To the bitter end, my brother.

Rodolfo: Good luck, amigos.

Soap turns to go on the transport plane and taps Ghost on the shoulder to motion him to go as well.

Alejandro: Ghost...

Ghost turns around to face Alejandro.

Alejandro: No te pierdas, carnal. (Don't get lost, brother.)

Ghost: A huevo. (Of course.)

Alejandro and Rodolfo smile and laugh as Ghost boards the plane. The doors to the ramp close shut.

Now this scene is interesting when we contrast the Ghost of "Kill or Capture" to the Ghost now. The Ghost at the beginning of the game visibly hated being fistbumped. The Ghost now, doesn't seem to bat an eye at it. For a man that seems to treasure his personal space, this is a big moment. Soap is now solidly in the rarified group of (2!) members that are allowed to touch Ghost (without getting glared/intense side eyed back). The other being Price of course.

Let me reiterate that this whole process only took 7 days.

This is also compounded with Ghost actually engaging in friendly conversation with Alejandro and Rudy. If at the beginning of "Cartel Protection" where we see Ghost more or less stonewall any sort of friendly jokes/banter, here we see Ghost actually respond positively. He even raises a fist in a total bro gesture. 🥹 Antisocial Ghost who's him?

This is further reinforced when we look at the usage of Spanish by non native speakers. Notably Soap, Ghost and Graves.

Soap's Spanish usage is used to denote affection/care from Soap to Alejandro/Rudy. We know that Soap cares about Rudy and Alejandro because he makes an effort to ask personal questions about them AND tries to learn/use their language.

Graves by contrast uses it too. But none of that is meant affectionately. When we do see it, he's mocking Los Vaqueros and taunting them over the loss of their base.

And reflective of Ghost, the LT doesn't even mutter a word of Spanish at all to Rudy or Alejandro. His non usage is used to imply how he intentionally distances himself from everyone.

In "Cartel Protection", they asked Soap and Ghost whether they knew any Spanish. Throughout the game we see Soap learning and using Spanish to the delight of Alejandro and Rudy. Ghost did not join in to that cultural/language learning at any point up until this key moment here.

Perhaps Ghost was actively learning Spanish as well, paying more attention/care than anyone would've thought. Or maybe Ghost being the secretive troll he is, might have already known the language to some degree and refused to reveal it to Ale/Rudy. Which ever reason behind it, this scene was the perfect moment to show how far Ghost has come since 7 days ago.

From arrival via transport plane and instantly stonewalling Soap from making any jokes, to now leaving via the same transport plane and revealing something about himself—it's like deja vu except Ghost is the only thing different. The lightning is even the same. Ghost has been changed by the past events. His motivations now are evolving and expanding into something a little more friend shaped.

But sadly, that's the last time we see Ghost and Soap physically together since we see Ghost has been put on overwatch for the millionth time in Chicago.

We do however get some delightful exchanges at the end of the mission:

Soap: It's detonated.

Laswell: Copy that. Air Force will confirm. Thank you, Sergeant.

Soap: Yeah... Pleasure doin' business with ya, Laswell.

Laswell: Where's Hassan?

Soap: Not alone- he's got AQ guards with him. I'm gonna kill every one of 'em... and then I'm going for him. Out here.

Soap moves throughout the construction floor evading Al-Qatala guards.

Soap: Steamin' bloody fuckin'...

Ghost: Nicely done, Johnny. Now for the hard part.

Soap: That was the fucking hard part, L.T...

Ghost: Let's find out. You need to stay alive, take out the guards, and kill Hassan.

Soap: I just need a weapon.

Ghost: Make one.

Soap: Aye. Like old times, huh, L.T.?

Ghost: Seems like yesterday...

Soap: It was yesterday...

Ghost and Soap fall back into snarking at each other during critical moments. What's interesting is that because Ghost is on overwatch and we see Soap work with Price and Gaz, we now have a chance to compare [Ghost and Soap], [Price and Soap] and [Laswell and Soap].

There's an odd thought rattling around that Soap could just be a very flirty person by nature. He likes to buck authority. Maybe Soap snarks back to all his superiors.

But we find that might not be true at all, because Soap doesn't snark at Price ever. Not here in mwii(22), not in "Flashpoint" in 2019 and not at any time in mwiii(23).

Gaz actually jokes more with Price than Soap ever does with the captain. And that's wild because according to the official bio, Price has known Soap since the sergeant was 18! Soap and Price's relationship go wayyy back. To our knowledge it's the longest official relationship we know between any of the characters. Maybe Soap's relationship to Price is more respectful/devoid of any back talk?

Regardless, Soap doesn't pull any of that towards Price. He actually snarks more to Laswell and their relationship started around 2019/20 when the taskforce was formed.

We see this here with Soap in an echo of what was to come in mwiii(23):

Laswell: Copy that. Air Force will confirm. Thank you, Sergeant.

Soap: Yeah... Pleasure doin' business with ya, Laswell.

Laswell: Where's Hassan?

Laswell thanks Soap. To which Soap snarks back happily. Laswell shuts down any jokes and moves the convo back to more pressing matters.

Contrast this convo with Ghost congratulating Soap and then starting the snark up first cause he can't help himself:

Ghost: Nicely done, Johnny. Now for the hard part.

Soap: That was the fucking hard part, L.T...

I honestly think the snark came out of Ghost from all the sheer worry the LT had. Remember that Ghost jokes to distract himself and Soap. This is another extension of that.

When we look at this as a whole, we can read it as further framing of Ghost and Soap's relationship as something unique, something special to only them. Out of all the superiors Soap has ever been directly under, it's only Ghost that seems to snark back. They egg each other on and we see this with each successive line in the dialogue bit:

Soap: I just need a weapon.

Ghost: Make one.

Soap: Aye. Like old times, huh, L.T.?

Ghost: Seems like yesterday...

Soap: It was yesterday...

Soap doesn't really joke back to Price (though we don't see them interact outside of extremely critical time sensitive missions so it's a little debatable). Laswell sort of tolerates it, but forcibly moves the subject.

It's Ghost who previously ignored Soap, that entertains and even encourages him to snark.

Soap isn't like this with Alejandro, Rudy or Gaz. We see (1) instance of Soap being pouty about Gaz being right (for once) in MWIII and that's all we really see of Gaz and Soap's relationship to be frank.

We also don't see Soap snarking at Alejandro or Rudy. The one time we saw Soap quip back at anyone, it was at Graves specifically during the tank scene. And that snark was meant murderously of course.

On the other hand, It feels like Ghost and Soap could go on forever trading banter at each other for hours.

And they somewhat do when the mission suddenly becomes a crafting survival game at the end. It becomes a little segment similar to "Alone" where you have Ghost encouraging Soap to murder better via helpful tips about how to do so.

There's a call and response thing going on with the two of them. Every time Soap says something, there's an automatic response from Ghost. And we see this especially so, at the very end of the game:

Soap: Ghost...

Ghost: Soap...

Soap: Watch the window...

The window blows apart and Hassan walks up to Soap.

Hassan: We are not attacking...

Hassan hauls Soap up to his feet and brings him to his face.

Hassan: We are invading...

The scene shifts to Ghost on the rooftop of his building as he deploys his MCPR-300 sniper rifle and aims at the floor where Soap and Hassan are located. He sees Hassan hauling Soap over to the window preparing to drop him to his death. At this point, the player must shoot Hassan before Hassan can push Soap out of the building.

Ghost fires a shot that hits Hassan in the head. Hassan collapses to the ground, dead. Soap drops to his knees and looks at Hassan before looking back to Ghost's position.

Soap: Perfect shot, L.T.

Ghost: You called it, Sergeant. All stations- Hassan's down. Enemy KIA.

Like "Alone", which literally was just yesterday for them, all Soap and Ghost have to say is their names and one of them will respond similarly. It's like they're a perfect pair meant to always be framed together. We are introduced to these characters together and we see the depth of who they are as characters in contrast to one another. (I'm not counting warzone because Ghost/Soap being there was equivalent to a fun Easter egg tbh)

And finally we get to the circular ending of mwii(22). It ends like how it starts. The game itself starts in Ghost's perspective with a missile strike to kill general Ghorbrani. We are in Ghost's perspective looking through a scope to confirm the target.

Here at the end, we are in Ghost's perspective after looking down another scope to kill Hassan.

Except this time Ghost isn't solo.

SoapAndGhost worked together for everything to end happily. It's in the text explicitly. Soap praises Ghost on his perfect shot. Ghost is like, noo, you called it. It's a regular ole praise hot potato here.

From beginning Ghost (who works alone) to end Ghost (who works with Soap): the heart and soul of this game is centred on these two. The big emotional breakthrough is Ghost's evolution from lone wolf to devoted teammate.

Whatever people might think about the nature of their relationship, it's unmistakable how important these two are to each other in-universe, but also just when we look at how the game was written. These two are the crux of MWII.

If MW19 was emotionally centred on Farah's backstory and her growth as a character in which we see her literally grow from child to freedom fighter, MWII was emotionally centred on Ghost learning how to trust (outsiders) and be a part of a team again.

It's really no wonder people like to ship Ghost and Soap when the game is focused on their particular relationship. From the framing to the dialogue, this was all deliberate. The shots had to be created/animated, the dialogue had to be written (no ad lib from what it sounds). There was a reason to have all these borderline non-platonic cutscenes/lines. And again I'll thank everyone there who had a hand in those choices.

They took what could have been a very dudebro game into something that appealed to a larger (feminine) audience by making choices that went against the grain of what a typical fps game does. Especially one so painfully mainstream.

Thanks game devs for creating such compelling characters/relationships. You really did us a solid by making it.

Now the next thing to look at is this: How has Ghost and Soap's relationship changed between mwii(22) to mwiii(23)?

That's a tough question. There are differences though those are best talked about in comparison to how we see Ghost and Soap in 2019, 2022 and then to 2023. There's sadly nothing truly explicit and all we have to look at is context, stares and little touches. Which still is enough to sink our teeth into in my humble shipper opinion.

But if anything, given how little time mwiii(23) had to bake, I'm glad that there was an effort to at least sub textually in the dialogue try to communicate Ghost and Soap's relationship.

We could have had zero relationship growth in mwiii(23) guys. I'll forever be glad we got the tidbits we do have over literally nothing.

Does this mean I think mwiii(23) was a good game that did Ghost and Soap's relationship justice?

No.

But I actually don't think it was completely the worst. And looking back at certain dialogue choices after going through mwii(22), there was some reasoning behind it. Which somewhat makes the ending better, though I'm still bitter about the whole nonsensical plot.

Anyway. Thanks for reading my stupidly long post, anyone who's still tuned into the whole thing, you have my endless gratitude. 💕💕💕🥺

And thanks to all the gifers out there to make my life easier for these posts. You guys are the real troopers. 🫡

Part 3 will prob take a good time that might not happen anytime soon because I keep on getting side tracked with writing/plot bunnies. Sorry guys 😔

+

Also sidenote, I have my own thoughts on why the game chose to not have Ghost join in the killing of Graves and instead have Soap and Rudy do it. My ghost squad theory is admittedly weaker when we see the game deliberately choose them (not Ghost) to get revenge. But honestly, it was always going to be the player character insert (Soap) and one of Los Vaqueros. Not Soap and Ghost. After all, it's Los Vaqueros that had their base taken over. It makes narrative sense for one of them to help end it as well.

#ghostsoap #soapghost #john soap mactavish #simon ghost riley #ghost x soap #soap x ghost #cod mwii #call of duty modern warfare #simon riley #soap mactavish #ghost cod #ghost squad #meta

[lurksunderthebed]

Ngl your meta makes me wonder if the writers for the reboot still consider the backstory given to Ghost in the comics canon. To my understanding they were canon for the earlier games. At the very least it shines a new light on a lot of Ghost's interactions if so

This is definitely a good question. And that's actually up for interpretation. As far as we see there's nothing to suggest that they're still using 09 ghost backstory from the comics in the reboot.

All we get from reboot ghost backstory is that there was a betrayal that happened to Ghost that burned him so hard we see him visibly shy away from being teammates. Plus the addition of another skull mask ex teammate.

The game does take away a lot of character depth from the original games so it's debatable. Though tbh, I'm leaning towards a blended/probably different backstory for reboot ghost.

Reboot did different things with the characterisation of Price, Soap and Gaz. It stands to reason that Ghost would also follow suit as well.

Price for example isn't nearly as jaded/hardline "I'll do what I have to win aka unleash nuclear missiles in 09". OG Price's stint in russian prison definitely broke something in him that we don't see in reboot Price.

Gaz actually has a character, is presumably younger than before, and looks very different from the OG.

Soap's role in the game takes the place of Roach and we see him as an impulsive fiery 'young' sergeant Vs the grizzled captain we see in 09 with an apparent perfection streak/journal writing/drawing. (Now they could be referencing younger Soap from the OG modern warfare for reboot Soap, but that Soap didn't have a character back then that we could see, he was the player character insert in that game).

All of it points to the writers probably intending to do something else with Ghost's backstory. Keep Ghost being betrayed (thus hesitant to trust) but have it be a different incident than 09 most likely.

Again, this is certainly open for interpretation. And on a personal note, I'd rather have something a bit different than rehashing the same stories over again. Imo it makes it more interesting to keep it somewhat open so as to keep the mystery open.

It's more entertaining to think up all manner of backstory for reboot Ghost because a lot of things could apply for him.

But again that's just my two cents here 😂

Everyone is free to headcanon reboot Ghost's backstory whichever way they want.

#ask #ghostsoap

[lurksunderthebed]

It appears that there's a difference between Ghost and Simon, i got this thought by Price addressing his real name when he took it off, indicating indirectly that it's Ghost only when he's an operative. Do you have any thoughts on what this could mean?

As I said in my previous ask, I think 'Ghost' might mean more than a simple way to hide Simon Riley's identity.

But in this case, Price referring to Ghost as Simon is meant to just be an implication of closeness.

When we find out Alex is still alive in Cod Warzone, Price actually calls Ghost by his actual name Simon. This happens while Ghost is actively on a mission in Verdansk in his whole getup. So we can assume that Price interchangeably uses Simon and Ghost to refer to the LT. (Though only, it seems in private or when Ghost takes off his mask. Price never says it when there's a chance of it being overheard by enemies/outsiders).

But yes, I think there's definitely something more going on with Ghost, especially with the introduction of Mace, another skull wearing operative who was a previous teammate. There's an assumption to be had there could be more similar Ghost styled operatives out there.

I could also be wrong, but eh hopefully the game will give us more to go on with. Hope this helped answer your question. 🫡

#ask #ghostsoap

[lurksunderthebed]

I remember one yt comment assuming that Ghost both OG and reboot had a family of his own as in wife and kids just because he was throwing around dad jokes with Soap back and forth.

It got me thinking then; how? like sure i guess people could assume it's because he wears a mask to stay anonymous but even then it doesn't add up? He's a nobody essentially, a Ghost, he has nothing, no picture on his file, like NOTHING. It is strongly implied that he's hiding his identity for a much bigger and most likely fucked up reason. Also people in the military or undercover covert ops don't wear masks for the sake of protecting their family/loved ones only, we have to remember that not every of these guys are actually good, and this is further reinforced in the MW and other CoD franchises, so yeah, not exactly a GhostSoap topic but more about Ghost himself. Have any thoughts? Feel free to share with us, i love your analyses and interpretations!

The assumption about Ghost having a wife and kids just because he likes dad jokes is well... It's a take.

The fun thing about these sorts of headcanons is that Ghost is just as likely to have a HUSBAND and kids as well. Again it's one of those things where you can think up all sorts of secret "xyz" that Ghost could be hiding. There's nothing proving it isn't wrong, but there's also no real factual basis behind it.

When it comes to spec ops like 141 is and really any SAS/delta aligned operatives is that there's a general OPSEC on these guys already (if we're gonna use the American terminology for this). Meaning that any general public picture/info of these guys working/in uniform etc is already usually scrubbed.

The fact that Ghost is going out of his way to hide his identity means a lot more I think than just hiding love ones away. I mean there's also nothing stopping Price, Gaz or Soap to be hiding loved ones as well and they even mention it in Alejandro's case. And yet none of these guys wear a mask habitually.

Add in Ghost's obvious trust issues, how much he stands apart from people, his hesitance on being a Team and the implication he got betrayed (by someone close, prob teammates), it all paints something a bit different than just hiding an identity purely because some bad men might hunt down your secret family.

Granted, Ghost might be embroiled in some very horrible shit, so maybe the stakes are higher for him. But I think the same could be said of Price. And Price seems far more likely to have a random family cause he's actually approachable/sociable.

But again who knows.

What I can say is that Ghost cares about his appearance standing out. I agree that him wearing a mask just to stay anon actually doesn't make sense. Ghost is very memorable. If he wanted to be discreet, his get up is 'quite the opposite'. There's a mythos behind him.

His very appearance is well thought out; the guy has the most different outfits/setups out of any of the team. The skull mask is painted and hand sewn on. He accessorizes with SKELETON GLOVES too.

Ghost also had a teammate in the past that also currently wears a skull mask. It's possible that 'Ghost' might actually mean more than hiding himself, but perhaps an identity to be used for intimidation.

Perhaps like Cod: Ghost's there's a unit of Ghosts that all wore 09 ghost balaclavas in the past who were famed for being the John wicks of the codmw reboot universe?

There are so many possibilities with the inclusion of Mace and that one statement we got from the Game Dev.

But eh who knows. I could be very wrong too 🤣.

Thanks again for enjoying my analysis! 💞 And I hope this somewhat answered your question. Questions like this always take me awhile to think it through lol. But I love it 💕😅

#ask #ghostsoap #soapghost

[lurksunderthebed]

Ghoap Analysis/Meta (2.4)

The Evolution of GhostSoap Redux

Looking at the other great GhostSoap interaction mission, "Prison Break".

Just one whole Mutual Admiration Party 🎉

Part (2.4/?)

No spoilers to MWIII

Please read the Alt text.

This is a series of meta posts for anyone new, exploring GhostSoap interactions in the reboot series.

Okay, now that we've gotten the Ghost and Soap question out of our system for now, lets look at the next mission "Prison Break".

If "Alone" was the building blocks of Ghost and Soap's relationship, the following missions only further support the establishment of them as a pair and more importantly the change from lone wolf Ghost to snarky teammate Ghost.

Personally, I actually find this half of the game less interesting for the GhostSoap ship because it doesn't truly tell us anything new, it only serves to reinforce the dynamic that Ghost and Soap have set up in "Alone".

If anything, these missions are more about showing the results of Ghost changing from the crucible that was Las Almas and further framing of Soap and Ghost as a unit.

Ghost is like an Eevee evolution. The one that requires affection to evolve. You give GHOST teammate SOAP. GHOST snarks back at SOAP. What? GHOST is evolving! Congratulations! Your GHOST evolved into SNARKY TEAMMATE GHOST!

Prison Break

John "Soap" MacTavish and Simon "Ghost" Riley arrive at a stables building in the Mexican countryside and walk towards it in the early morning.

Soap: Where are we?

Ghost: Alejandro's safehouse. Gave me the location just in case.

Soap: Why didn't he tell me?

Ghost: It was need to know.

Soap: What if I needed to know—?

Ghost: —Shhh.

The cutscene starts with Ghost and Soap leaving their truck from "Alone". We can theorise due to the lighting in the sky that some time has passed since the pair got out of Las Almas. We also see Soap's arm bears no trace of his wounds.

This is Soap at the start of Alone LESS than 4 HOURS AGO: afraid and Ghostless

This is Soap now: happy and with a Ghost

Between their escape and now, Ghost must've patched Soap up. Considering Soap was hurt on his right upper arm and him being most likely a rightie due to his trigger finger also being his right, it's a two person job. One that requires Ghost's tender care.

But back to the dialogue. Soap and Ghost snark back to each other (another establishment of their relationship: chock full of snark). Now we learn that Ghost knew the location of the safehouse. He could've left Soap, but decided not to. This is addressed in the next bit.

Rodolfo: Nice throw. Where were you guys?

Ghost: On the run.

Soap: I was on the run. Ghost waited for me.

Rodolfo: Of course, no?

Soap: No.

Ghost: Yes-

Soap looks at Ghost, surprised.

Ghost: We're a team... All of us. This happened on my watch and I'll need help to fix it. No one fights alone.

Soap nods.

This is a critical bit of dialogue for Soap and Ghost as an entire whole when we look at their relationship. It's an explicit turning point in Ghost's own words. We see him actually defining their relationship. From barely tolerating Soap in "Kill or Capture" and implying that he would sacrifice his teammates to get the job done, to now proclaiming them as a team. Ghost has changed a lot since we first saw him. The fun thing is that he still isn't finished in his evolution as Snarky Teammate Ghost.

This is also important in terms of what Soap might have been thinking through "Alone". Soap isn't an idiot; if anything he's probably realising that Ghost could have left him at any time during that mission.

In fact one can even read it as him knowing how little Ghost had regarded him up to "Alone".

The relationship they had prior to "El Sin Nombre" for those past 3 years wasn't full of Soap being oblivious to Ghost's discomfort. Soap probably full on knew that Ghost disliked him. Enough to be unsure here about the LT staying back for a teammate.

On the other hand, Soap could also be remembering the moment in "Kill or Capture" in which Ghost has his infamous 'choices have consequences' dialogue where he indirectly implies to regret not leaving alpha squad (to die) to complete their mission objective. Soap knows that Ghost can be ruthless. Caring for others isn't a part of the man's usual modus operandi.

Regardless, we see Ghost has been irrevocably changed. It's not Soap pushing the boundaries and daring Ghost to admit to liking him—to saying that the LT cares, it's Ghost admitting it out loud that they're all a team to Soap and Rudy.

It's interesting to note that when Ghost says, "We're a team..." He definitely means to say SoapAndGhost are a team. Then decides, well that's not strictly true, THEY (Rudy/Ale) all are a team.

He's decided, well if Soap is his teammate and Rudy is here, (and somehow managed to survive), then he'll give the rest of them (Rudy&Ale) teammate privileges.

But was that really all it was?

I actually think this is Ghost downplaying the role that Soap had on him.

Note that he doesn't say anything about caring about Soap personally, despite it being a natural answer to the unsaid question. Ghost once again denies personal attachment to another, by framing it as, "I couldn't leave the team alone because this all is my fault", instead of a, "I couldn't leave Johnny alone because I care about him." His worry/care is projected as a general team effort versus a very real personal affection for one loudmouth sergeant.

So what was Ghost's motives through his assertions? Could Ghost have formed some sort of attachment to Rudy and Alejandro offscreen and that's why he was so ready to trust them?

Well, the answer is expressed in Ghost's stares, of which he and Soap have a fun habit of.

It's hard to show, but when Ghost says his last bit,

Ghost: We're a team... All of us. This happened on my watch and I'll need help to fix it. No one fights alone.

he's actually allocating different things to Rudy and Soap separately. Through his helpful stares, we can tell which parts he means to which person and thus reason out what he may have been thinking.

In the first part of his statement, "We're a team...", the LT is clearly staring at Soap and speaking directly to him. Team is obviously him and this annoying guy that Ghost can't help but like.

The next sentence, "All of us..." is directed to Rudy momentarily in a fleeting glance, but we tellingly never see Rudy's expression to that statement.

It's Soap's POV that we are firmly in and it's to Soap that the most important part of Ghost's dialogue is to. All the emotional weight of Ghost declaration of team hood is put on Soap (and his relationship with Ghost).

Rudy and Alejandro are more of a tacked on afterthought. It's debatable whether the LT even likes them since we don't see any friendly interactions between either characters. We can however say that Alejandro trusted Ghost enough to give him the safehouse coordinates but tellingly, not to Graves.

Alternatively, we can say that Ghost was so ready to trust them because Ghost having been betrayed once, really hates seeing good guys like Alejandro, Rudy and Soap get betrayed (like him) and thus feels responsible as the guy who worked extensively with Shepherd and Graves to not have foreseen this somehow. It's very possible. Betrayal is obviously a hot topic with Ghost.

But still, it can't be understated how important Soap was/is to Ghost's changing attitude. It's truly the events of "Alone" that have led up to this all happening in the first place.

Soap pried open the shut door that was Ghost, one little crack and now all the smushy teammate feelings are pouring out from him. It's Soap that has changed him.

It's questionable whether without the sergeant this scene would've happened at all, or if the prison break could've happened with only two people (Rudy and Ghost) if Ghost left Soap to rot in Las Almas. We'll never know. (Though honestly given how little we see Ghost interact with the mexi bros I don't see it happening tbh)

So we get to the final and most damning of his statements to figure out what Ghost's motives were.

Ghost who has been alone—has admitted to working alone most times, now says it himself directly to SOAP :

No one fights alone.

There's a meaningful stare at Soap, to which the sergeant visibly nods back in agreement (our noddy boy 😩). The camera hovers over both of their expressions for a good couple seconds. This is clearly, A Very Important Moment™ the game itself wants us to remember.

Both of them are probably remembering the very recent events of "Alone" and thinking about the fact that they were never truly alone for it. Despite being separated most of the time, they fought together. What could've been a moment of desperate survival by their own, wasn't.

Again, another unsaid conversation they are having with each other and only them. This happens constantly with them. From the start of "Kill or Capture" to the end of Codmwiii(23). Aside from snark, this is how Ghost and Soap communicate.

While Ghost glances back at Rudy, for the, "... I'll need help to fix it." he noticeably has a moment with Soap exclusively. Rudy is treated to the Gaz special (ala Codmwiii) of being the unwitting third wheel in a convo that should have all three of them participating equally.

Despite Ghost's words saying they (Rudy) are all a part of his team, it's truly SoapAndGhost who are The One True Team in this group. It's Soap who Ghost thinks of as a team first. And it's the sergeant who'll be the closest we see Ghost get to anyone. It's hard not to read Ghost imbuing more importance on Soap than anyone else.

In fact the game even supports this by always framing SoapAndGhost together. Rudy is shown off centre; he's not the focus. He's never paired together with just either Soap or Ghost in this cutscene.

Here these are just (3) SEPARATE moments where this is shown. I'm not cropping Rudy out of anything. These are the shots we are given.

If Tumblr didn't have a photo limit of 10 per post I would show more, but alas. There were much more in this one cutscene. Trust me on that.

If we want to go further, it's not even only the framing shots we get that does this, but also by game design as well.

Rudy is given his own solo work, while WE play as Soap working as a team with Ghost to place the charges in "Prison Break". It's the SoapAndGhost show now and it's them working TOGETHER that bears some of the most important moments in the latter half of the game.

Moving on from the convo, we get a new juicy piece of their relationship.

And that is The Mutual Admiration Thing Soap and Ghost have during this whole mission.

Re:

Soap: How do we get 'em back?

Ghost: By breaking in.

Soap: And that's why I love the Ghost.

Ghost: It's gonna take more than this.

And

Soap: Let's divide and conquer. While Rudy finds Al, I'll use the cams to help Ghost plant charges in key areas.

The camera pans up to reveal an explosive charge.

Ghost: Diversions and sabotage. Nice, Johnny.

Soap: I learned from the best, L.T. Once we pinpoint Alejandro and Los Vaqueros, we regroup and pry 'em loose.

It's funny how much Ghost doesn't know how to handle compliments. He outright refuses to continue the convo and forcibly moves it to something else.

We see this happen later in the mission itself when Ghost is planting the charges with Soap's added snark and glee.

This time, we truly get to see that Soap's loudmouth 'fuck authority' side wasn't a one off from "Alone". It's in full force now.

Every time Ghost kills a shadow, this is an assortment of what Soap comments right afterwards.

(Every time Ghost kills a Shadow...)

Soap: Sleep tight, shithole.; Layin' down on the job, aye...?; Dropped 'em.; Good kill.; Another dead Shadow.; Shadow down.; Lookin' good, L.T.; Nighty-night, fuck-head.; He's down.; Good night.; Down.; Sleep well, asshole.; Got 'em.; Classic Ghost...

Ranging from flirty admiration to full on snide vindictiveness, Soap is the snarkiest we see him ever.

And we see all of it on display:

Ghost dispatches the Shadow on the balcony.

Soap: A little help's not so bad, eh, L.T.?

Ghost: Stay focused, Johnny.

Soap: Just sayin'...

Ghost: Keep it tactical, Sergeant.

At the sight of Ghost massacring his enemies, Soap cannot contain his glee/awe and pushes Ghost's boundaries some more. Ghost literally tells him to shut up three times here.

Ghost sneaks up on the armored Shadow and kills him with his knife. He then dumps the dead Shadow into the dumpster bin on his right.

Soap: Trash bin on your right. Time to take out the trash...

Ghost: Shut up, Soap- Fucking hell...

In fairness to Ghost, listening to quippy one liners is probably very distracting. Especially when the guy is trying to stay silent/stealthy and murder better.

But then, Ghost starts to lean into it.

Swayed by some tender loving compliments Soap dishes out, he even entertains the man. Ghost really can't help himself when it comes to Soap now. That cracked door is now wide open and affection is coming out of it.

Soap: Time for a distraction, L.T.; You'll need a diversion.

Soap points at the generator for Ghost to turn off.

Soap: Your bread 'n butter, sir.

Ghost: Lights out.

Ghost switches off the generator, causing the lights in the area to go dark. Ghost quickly moves to cover behind a crate while the two Shadows split off in opposite directions to investigate. One of them goes towards the generator.

Soap: He's heading toward the electrical.

Ghost: Unless he runs into me on the way.

The Shadow gets close enough to the generator for Ghost to ambush him.

Soap: Now...

Ghost springs out of hiding and kills the Shadow

Ghost actually engages with Soap unnecessarily here and we see Ghost's deadpan snark come out. Ghost decides he also wants to play Soap's snark game.

With the encouragement, Soap again pushes the drawn out lines between them directly after. He wants Ghost to admit that he thinks Soap is pretty cool too:

Soap: I'm pretty good at this, eh, L.T.?

Ghost: I've seen better.

Soap: Who...?

Ghost: Me...

To which Ghost definitely rebukes Soap, by showing his ego. I swear both of them live on praise from each other or something. Soap desperately wants Ghost's praise.

And guess what? Ghost wants Soap's praise back:

Soap: One on the roof, Ghost.

Soap guides Ghost up a ladder to a balcony. Once up there, Soap spots another Shadow working on a computer below Ghost's position.

Ghost: Gonna do this one my way, watch...

Ghost leaps down from the balcony and pounces on the Shadow, killing him.

Soap: Fucking beautiful, sir.

This was so unnecessarily flashy it's insane. If we have Soap literally asking for Ghost's approval constantly, Ghost here is just jumping off of buildings to get Soap's.

Let's take a moment to appreciate how truly unhinged these two are. We have these two goobers working together to murder a staggering amount of enemies (people they might've worked with) and having FUN with it. They sound less like they're on an infiltration mission and more like they're at a fun fair competing to see who can win the most amount of prizes.

Seeing how Ghost has been working alone and presumably silent for a majority of that time, this must be a first for him to have someone visibly appreciating his kills. Soap isn't disgusted or horrified at Ghost's lethality; he's downright gleefully narrating it all.

And the thing is. Ghost likes it. He wants more of Soap's praise because why else would he kill someone like that? That sort of move could severely fuck up his knees, but he did it anyway.

I suppose we can look at it as Ghost being a cocky competitive fuck. Annoyed at Soap's yacking and the implication by Soap that the sergeant is potentially better than him, he tells Soap that he is better at killing. Then he goes and proves it to Soap.

But again, the end result of Ghost proving that isn't to shut up Soap once and for all. He must know that this wouldn't stop the sergeant at all, it only encourages him to say more things about Ghost. If Ghost wanted Soap to stop saying shit then he could've just stonewalled him like he did all their relationship before.

Ghost wants Soap to praise him.

Whether that is because of his apparently massive ego, or if he just likes Soap (potentially romantically) is up for interpretation. Perhaps it's a mix of both. But given his past actions of not interacting at all with people, I find the massive ego thing to be the less weighted reason.

If Ghost truly was that cocky/egotistical, I think there would be less emphasis on staying anon and more boastful interactions with others.

And that's actually proven with the next iconic dialogue.

Rodolfo: Exfil vehicles are set. Ghost planted charges to help us get out.

Ghost: With Johnny's help.

Alejandro: I can't call Soap "Johnny"...

Soap: Don't. Only Ghost can pull that off.

Ghost actually gives credit to Soap. If Ghost truly was egotistical, he wouldn't be deferring praise to 'the cocky sergeant' he wanted to prove his superiority over.

He even uses 'Johnny' to give credit, the very nickname he came up with a couple of days ago. Ghost using 'Johnny' instead of Soap or Sergeant comes up the entire mission. It's just further confirmation that it isn't only used in extreme stress moments, it's unquestionably being used as a term of endearment as well.

And now we finally get the only time anyone actually somewhat asks/acknowledges the nickname. The even more fun thing is that it's by Alejandro, who we see was the first person to hear it outside of Ghost and Soap in "El Sin Nombre".

But it's not Ghost who responds back to Alejandro, it's Soap who butts into the conversation by asserting that no one else should call him Johnny BUT Ghost. Possessive much.

It does make one wonder why Soap chose to interrupt Ghost from responding. Was it because he suspected it would cause the LT to clam up again and he didn't want that to happen? Or was it because he actually is bothered by others using a name that Ghost has made up for him? Honestly, there are so many possibilities and no clear answer.

What we can say, is that Soap does have a track record of backing off when he knows things get too emotionally close to Ghost. We saw that in "Alone" and we know that Soap is actually pretty savvy in being able to read Ghost.

Soap probably didn't want to make things awkward between the group by having Ghost noncommunicative. And we can only suspect that someone point blank asking or even leading up to why Ghost is choosing to use a nickname for the same guy he used to grudgingly tolerate would do that. So Soap says the first thing that comes out of his head, and we get something very possessive sounding out of it.

Honestly, it's hard to think of a purely platonic reason for that whole statement, so I'll do everyone a favour and not try.

That's pretty much it for GhostSoap interactions in this mission. (There was one part missing but it didn't quite fit in the flow of things here. If you can figure which one I'm talking about, kudos to you) 😄

Prison Break concludes with Price showing up to save the day and everyone escaping. Which then leads up to our favourite face reveal. (Though disappointingly not a lot of GhostSoap moments throughout that mission). It does however have Ghost's last evolution to Ultimate Trust Ghost, so that's always fun. Lol.

I'll leave that for the next part when I get there. I honestly thought I could do the latter half of the game all in one post. Jokes on everyone, "Prison Break" has so much fun snark that this became another overly long post.

+

Sorry guys if this is very late. These posts take quite a bit of time and effort considering I have to rewatch missions, take (too many) screenshots, reread the transcripts and then format it up here in a somewhat coherent manner. And then edit for grammar and flow ugh 😞

If you're still reading these posts, you have all my love and thanks 🙏 Without your encouragement, I'm not sure I would've dug this deep or gotten this far. 💞💞💗

#ghostsoap #soapghost #john soap mactavish #simon ghost riley #ghost x soap #simon riley #call of duty #soap x ghost #cod mwii #cod mw2 #meta #call of duty modern warfare

[lurksunderthebed]

Hi, I saw that you had a discussion about the queerness of our beloved characters. I really hope you’re not tired of that topic, because I wanted to add another point.

First of all I don’t really care. I really like the dynamic between most of the characters, especially Ghost and Soap, but I don’t care if it’s interpreted as besties or lovers. I think both is fun.

I just wanted to add that maybe all of the MW story feels so fucking gay, because we lack cool women? We have Farah and Laswell, but let’s be real Farah is basically married to Alex (I thought they were a couple at first) and Laswell is married to a woman. Now people go great lengths to ship the male characters with female villains, who only appear in a small fraction of the story and have no real chemistry. I mean they can do whatever floats their boat, but I don’t really see the point here.

Which leaves us with a bunch of man ‘flirting’ with each other vor comedic value. I think given this and the points you already said on your account, I think it’s even a bit intended that most of our characters might not be the straightest.

Sure, a bunch of straight men can exist without women and still be straight and the military still might not be the most women friendly institution, but I think having more girlpower would have been an easy way to make everyone appear more straight and the devs didn’t go that route sooooo… (I still would love to have more cool women, but that’s another topic)

Anyways, I hope you have a good day and I wanted to add that I really enjoyed your character analysis posts <3

Ahh thanks for enjoying my analysis posts. 💞🥹 Honestly, I'm still surprised people are reading them lol. (And asking me about it haha)

But yes, I don't think I'll ever be tired of the ol' queerness discussion. It's a fun topic to debate especially with these characters in this particular game.

Controversial take, but I actually don't think adding any extra female characters would've been helpful in making the 'gay' go away.

(gonna be a long discussion here, settle in if you want to read it haha 😅)

What we have to put in mind, is that this game wasn't made for the female audience. The vast majority of the people buying and playing it are going to be male. That's the facts. It's going to cater to men.

A game made for men is going to have a majority of those characters be male. Adding new female characters in a REBOOT series is a delicate task when a good chunk of the population playing have played the OG and want to see legacy characters back (which are all male—the OG was all men).

That means that when we look at why certain things are framed and why there aren't many female characters, and especially why there isn't much of any confirmed (het) canon romantic ships between any characters, it's because the game itself isn't focused on it.

That same vast majority of men don't actually care about ships in general and with people trying to be more progressive, any female characters introduced are painstakingly written to omit any overt possibility of romance. In one sense, it's a welcome change from the action movie style plot line where man + woman = relationship with the women being just side characters/window dressing to the MC.

Women here are shown to be tough, that they don't need a man at all. They have their own agency. It's pretty nice actually that they did that. None of the female characters are infantilised nor is there a sense of them being there to "check boxes" in the minority bag. They make sense in the framing the game has placed them in.

But we do have this interesting dynamic whereby removing the romance factor, but having female characters in a setting that most are conditioned to read as man + woman = relationship, it de-emphasizes heteronormality and actually emphasises the relationships between the core characters.

And with a game full of men, that means the relationships between men are going to be the focal point.

Adding extra female characters, wouldn't have changed any of this, because the writers have gone out of their way to not make romance a plot of any sort. (There's a whole other discussion on the flaws of trying to give women agency/proving strength of character, but by doing so, taking away their sexualities by removing any sort of romance, but that's beside the point)

I think there's also an argument to be had that meaningful relationships with others don't have to necessarily imply romance between characters. It's totally fair to be sick of always having romance injected in to these sorts of relationships. That's an extremely valid take.

But there most definitely is a double standard that everyone is operating on. And we see that when we compare Alex/Farah's relationship with Ghost/Soap's.

Alex's most meaningful relationship is with Farah. He sacrifices himself for her cause and loses a leg for it. He comes back and stays by her side. Most people assume to take it as Alex is in love with Farah. We never see any type of flirting between the two. In fact it's mostly Farah testing Alex and looking at their dialogue you can tell there's respect between the two, but anything more is undefined/up for interpretation.

Yet it's just assumed by virtue of Alex and Farah being man + woman, that they must be together because of how much Alex had sacrificed. Completely ignoring the possibility of Alex doing so because he believes in Farah's cause and was sick of being jerked around with no choice by higher ups who largely didn't care about the suffering of Farah's people. Suffering that the man had personally witnessed. But no, he must be in love with her. (If Farah was a man, their whole relationship would be read as platonic with Alex's beliefs as a focus, not him being potentially in love)

Ghost's most meaningful relationship is with Soap. Soap has changed Ghost's whole MO as a lone wolf, and has challenged his very notion of trust. Ghost tests Soap and is proven wrong when Soap survives despite the odds. We even see them have plausible deniability flirting/snark. They are framed as a unit and on the off times (off of missions in cutscenes), they are always physically together. There's definitely respect between the two, but anything more is undefined/up for interpretation.

By itself, their relationship seems innocuous, but looking at the context we see a very different picture. Context matters heavily in seeing how this relationship has changed Ghost/the importance of it to him. It's assumed that Soap is the first person in god knows how long, that Ghost is emotionally attached to. What constitutes a normal, albeit flirty and snarky, friendly relationship for most, is amplified for Ghost in the glaring fact that he really doesn't do this for anyone else ever. As far as we can tell for a man that appears to live his job, Soap is Ghost's most important person.

We can even arguably say that Ghost and Soap had a flirtier, friendlier, more emotional relationship than Alex and Farah ever had, yet it's assumed (by the male audience) to be completely platonic by virtue of them both being men.

For all those people who argue to stop shipping characters, those same people turn around and are completely implicit in the notion of Alex and Farah being a thing.

It's a really annoying take, because you and I know that it's not the romance they're bothered by. It's the idea of having a character that exemplifies the silent male loner badass archetype as anything but the pinnacle of masculinity. IE, totally and utterly straight.

I feel I could go on about all the ways Ghost surprisingly subverts his archetype, but I'll leave it there. This is prob already too long 😅

But yes, having new cool female characters is always good, but it still wouldn't settle any sexuality debate since they would most likely be written without any hint of romance between the core 141 group and that potential new character. Just like how Farah and Laswell, as you said, have been both removed completely from the romance/sexuality debate, any new female character would also be put under similar framework.

I suppose it would just make them appear more straight (and get rid of all the speculation) if they had a new female character added into 141, but I don't see the point of adding a new character for that sole purpose. And tbh, it would come across as insulting to women if they did for that one reason.

Given how little character development we had in the latest game, I heavily doubt they would introduce new characters at all when they barely showed anything of the current ones we have already. We need more development of the characters we have, adding someone new would arguably take away from building proper relationships/dynamics between the characters we do have currently.

But yeah, heh. I'll stop for real now. If you got this far in my latest Ted Talk™, kudos to you good sir 🫡, you have all my love ☺️

Hope you have a great day too nonny, and I hope this helps with the discussion. Feels like I went off on too many side tangents. 🤔🤔🤔

#ask #ghostsoap #soapghost #cod mwiii #john soap mactavish #simon ghost riley #ghost x soap #simon riley #call of duty #soap x ghost

[lurksunderthebed]

I'm not the same anon but I'll just share one comment i found on a GhostSoap thread on twitter "It is most likely that Activision intended for Ghost to be straight even if we don't know his sexuality or he never had romantic interaction with a woman" yada yada, this is a complete bull btw, to this person I'd just replied,if they wanna see Ghost as a het then by all means go for it, but don't put your own projection and personal opinion into a fact of Activision. Their reason being more so how they should all have minimal respect for GhostSoap shippers whereas in reality those very same shippers are the main reason why the fandom is so big and thriving to this very day. But i guess not, to some.

Activision themselves even made an article on valentine's day to celebrate "Babygirlification of Ghost" and they also proceeded to list a few personals about him! Here's the thread

>> https://newsroom.activisionblizzard.com/p/call-of-duty-ghost-valentine

What i found hilarious is when naturally some took "a straight shooter 🔍" to mean that he's straight or that they made a pun for it to mean so 😂😂 I can't -- anyhow you do not have to answer this directly seeing as it's easier for you but I'd love to know your thoughts regardless, especially on this one!! :)

Hmm I read the article and I do have to say that this was all meant in a joking sort of manner. To be quite fair, it really doesn't tell us much of anything more than we already know. And imo, it wasn't actually that well written either.

As I have said earlier, there truly isn't anything definitive we can look at in terms of sexualities. Unless otherwise stated by the characters/Activision/in game everything is open to interpretation.

The term "straight shooter" could be taken in so many ways that it doesn't hold much value. This was quite obviously meant as a play on Ghost being snarky as hell (the comedic straight man so to speak) [edit: a very honest/straightforward guy] and that he's the best sniper the 141 have. To take it as him being straight is a stretch, but I suppose you can read whatever you want into blanket statements like those. Lol.

Ghost is lit like one of those horoscopes. You can read whatever you want into him and still come out believing your assumptions are the (1) true canon because he's written in such general and vague strokes that everything sort of applies.

#ask #ghostsoap #soapghost

[lurksunderthebed]

To the two anons that roughly talked about Ghost, self ships/female OCs and some fans takes that that must mean 'Ghost is deffo straight':

I agree with the sentiment, and honestly it too makes me somewhat mad whenever people define other's sexualities when it's all purposely vague.

There literally isn't any sort of proof of anyone's sexualities at all aside from Laswell. Not anyone from the core 141 group or any of the other characters (Alex, Farah, Nikolai, Yuri, etc) have had any sort of 'significant other' talk, or have any form of blatant flirting towards others that could be used as a definitive guarantee. Hell, there's no proof of anyone's sexualities in the OG Codmw games either.

Ghost's sexuality will always be a mystery, much like his face. What people like to ascribe to him outside of his relationship with Soap, his snark and his noticeable withdrawal from others, say more about their own values than anything inherent in the character.

Even I can only take the clues dropped in the game and make my own assumptions about the character.

Everything outside of the boundaries set by the game is both equally true and wrong of the character. We simply just don't know enough to say for sure.

Anyone else who says otherwise needs to re-evaluate the source material. Maybe do something else, because fixating on a character this hard to get that angry just for the simple suggestion that their beloved character might not be 💯 % straight, seems very unhealthy.

#ask #ghostsoap

[lurksunderthebed]

Funnily enough i had a long ass convo with one of the dudebros that just decided to drop by and comment how Ghost and Soap are NOT GAY!!! on one of the comment's that initially didn't even mention anything about them like that other than saying "they could have been friends or something more like romantic", and this guy just lost it. Problem with them is they wanna latch onto their "role" models so desperately it threatens their masculinity when someone dares to read these characters as anything other than cis het man.

Bear with me it's gonna be one long ass essay; The need to gatekeep a certain character because their views don't aling with how the rest of us choose to interpret them because according to them, their view is a fact but ours that's not aligning with their bias is a headcanon, make it make sense. Saying and seething that "Ghost isn't GAY!!!" isn't a fact, that sounds like an agenda to me because seeing Ghost as a bi/pan anything else doesn't count in the "manly man" category for toxic dudebros because masculine men only are allowed to dominate and bang women, right? It just shows how simple minded and uneducated the lot of them really are. Cannot fathom man and a woman having a platonic bond without saying "yeah they're polygamous, that's a thing in military for men to have side bitches" whilst defending fiercely Ghost and Soap as being anything other than "bros" because they feel attacked.

Don't get me started on the whole double standard issue either; it's very hot and cute when Ghost threatens Milena but it's disgusting and no no for Ghost and Soap who literally have an established bond between them and clearly care for one another. Same goes for Valeria, they were ready to pair her with Soap just because it was a woman and a man. A man has to bang chicks lol/ This philosophy is so tiring and dumb that it just shows you how a cis het man actually sees women. And i'd go as far as to say it implies misogyny aswell. Take that as you will. But this issue is present in every sort of fandom whose target audience is mostly basement dwellers that rely on their mums for a brand new GPU.

I think the whole thing has to do with projection. When it comes to people who lash out and get ridiculously upset about these sorts of things, especially about a FICTIONAL character it's cause they view it as an attack on themselves.

Which is all sorts of sad, because we're not talking facts here or canonical events, it's about how those fans see themselves in their fav characters.

As I said earlier, you could read into people's sexualities all you want. Aside from Laswell hilariously enough, there isn't any definitive proof of het/gay/etc in any character in 141. If there was, you bet my overly analytical self would find it and make a note of it for Ghost or Soap.

There's arguably more proof on Ghost being queer than him being straight/het which is the funniest thing. The easiest read is him being just not interested in people as a whole, especially with how much he doesn't really interact with others personally (outside of Soap).

Personally, I think when it comes to those sorts of people it's best to just leave it be. No amount of actual factual basis or any sort of reason will change their minds. Because it's not the characters in question that is the issue, it's themselves as people that push their own agenda into it.

Again irony at its finest. For all the people out there upset at those pushing the "gay agenda" onto these characters, it's really themselves pushing their own values onto them. Realising this would require more self reflection than most of that vocal fanbase actually have.

#ask #ghostsoap #cod mwiii #cod mw3 #soapghost #john soap mactavish #simon ghost riley #ghost x soap

[lurksunderthebed]

Thoughts on CoD dudebros that attempt to gatekeep their "role" characters? Over the course of last year it's funny how many i've seen upset that Laswell has a wife because they genuinely thought Price was "bonking" her according to them. Even more so going as far as to say that they'd be into experimental poly relationship. And don't get me started on YT side of the base where people say stuff like Soap & Valeria, Ghost & Milena double date, it's hilarious really. But god forbid you post anything about GhostSoap remotelly romantic. It's like hellfire out there.

Oh man that's a good question. I haven't actually thought too hard on that tbh. Funny timing because I literally watched an opinion piece on YT on what they [the male fanbase] thought on mwiii(23).

I think people want to read into things as they prefer. People are so conditioned in these action movie style sort of storylines to assume Man + Women talking = relationship. And in that sense I can see why people would ship Price and Laswell because they do have a friendly relationship, one that implies years of knowing one another. (though Valeria and Milena /soap or ghost?? Why??)

I think the biggest shame is the fact that male and female platonic friendships are so rare in these instances that for a significant part of that vocal fanbase, it blows their mind to have heterosexual friendships that are just that: friendships.

And it's always a bit ironic we have this situation when you have those dudebros pile on the ghostsoap ship and say, "can't friendships just be friendships, stop making everything gay". Can't friendships just be friendships, stop making everything het.

Bro, we ain't making anything gay, it's there in the text. Call the spade a spade. They flirt with each other. I can even pull up the receipts and go through every bit of possibility and still think, wow, even them joking is pretty sus with all the context. Especially when it's Ghost who flirts back, out of all people—the man who is so emotionally constipated that showing his face and letting people use his name is a Big Deal™.

I always wonder what that fanbase would make of these meta posts. In a weird way, I do sort of welcome that critique. It would be interesting to see what would come out of that.

I mean, yeah you can read Ghost and Soap's relationship however you want. But it's definitely not something as clear cut as, "they're just friends. That's what brothers in arms are like. You just don't understand!" sort of thing. I think reducing them down to 'just friends' would be doing a disservice to how much Soap meant to Ghost in terms of the actual codmwii plot line.

The nice thing is that despite all the differences we all have with each other, we as an entire fanbase all agree on this: Codmwiii(23) has the worst campaign out of all codmw games.

The storyline sucked and didn't go anywhere. The ending was there for shock factor. It didn't really add anything to the story aside from making one feel upset. It was sloppy storytelling, and it really felt like it could've been better.

But yeah. Lol 😂 sorry for the rant guys. Hope you enjoyed the Ted Talk.

Btw, much thanks and love from everyone reading my meta posts. All the encouragement fuels me for my next overly long post. 💞🥹

#ask #ghostsoap #soapghost #cod mwiii #cod mw3

[lurksunderthebed]

Ghoap Analysis/Meta (2.3)

The Evolution of GhostSoap Redux

Discussion of Ghost and Soap's relationship after "Alone" and a dive into character motivations/backstory.

Answering the 'did they' or 'did they not' question between "Alone" and "Prison Break".

Part (2.3/?)

PLEASE READ PART (2.2) FOR FULL CONTEXT

Minor mentions of mwiii (23). Practically spoiler free to that game.

Warning: very long and meandering discussion. I probably should have shortened this. But even now I still think I missed things from "Alone" 😔

Alone Discussion

I think it would be fair to say that there was much that happened in "Alone" to think about. It's undeniable that Ghost and Soap's relationship had a turning point then. The intimate backdrop of two people fighting on their own for survival with only a potentially friendly voice in your ear for help is an evocative image.

One filled with flirting and banter traded in whispers, sneaking around scared enemies who will kill you if you're too loud, getting saved by someone you largely thought disliked you, that mad dash together to get out. It's all one very compelling picture to assume something happened. Something potentially romantic in nature.

Many in fandom have speculated on the nature of Ghost and Soap's relationship post mission: "Alone" and it's hard not to, really. Let it be said that the game writers knew what they were doing then and were a bit insane for doing so in a game largely meant for the male audience.

So the glaring question remains: Did Ghost and Soap get together between "Alone" and "Prison Break" in that nebulous in-between before the pair got to Ale's safe house or the time between the safe house and the prison break?

The answer to that—using the dialogue, current motivations, and timeline sadly suggests it's most likely they did not.

Since I already spent the last post discussing what Ghost may have been thinking and his motivations in "Alone", lets look at Soap's. To do so we'll have to dive into Soap's backstory.

John "Soap" Mactavish

What we do know of his background is actually a fair bit. Definitely more than we know of Ghost that's for sure.

It goes without saying that he's proudly Scottish. From the slang to the end in '23. Soap is a born and raised Scot.

According to wiki, and the current bio from the game, Soap tried joining the military at 16. His cousin who was/is SAS inspired him. He got denied many times till he finally joined at 18 and got chosen for SAS selection in 2014.

During this time in 2014, Captain Price was his evaluator to which he handily impressed all by scoring highly in tests. Soap was the youngest to pass and got labeled "the perpetual FNG", presumably because of his precocious age.

His first mission was with Price in Russia, where the captain saved his life. Later he further distinguished himself in Urzikstan with an act of courage, earning him prestigious medals as a result. Medals such as the Victoria Cross, the Gallantry medal and the Conspicuous Gallantry medal. All three of those medals irl, are awarded specifically in acts of outstanding bravery and valour.

In 2016 at the age of 20, Soap punched a military police officer and locked him out of his car. He did not face disciplinary action for this.

In 2019, at the age of 23 we have "Flashpoint", a potential first meeting of Soap and Ghost and we see him almost disregard orders by threatening to kill Makarov.

And finally in 2022, at the age of 26 we have the events of mwii.

What does this background bio tell us of Soap?

Well we can say he's a courageous hot headed type. One that acts on impulse, to the detriment of his own career. He's stupidly, fearlessly brave. He's been awarded for that bravery and he's ridiculously young for his rank and service. He's as fiery as his explosives. He's a thundercracker and loves to talk back to authority.

Doesn't this sound familiar?

The interesting point is that we can say that this characterization holds true whether we look at the 2019 version of Soap, the 2022 version and finally the 2023 version. Soap doesn't really change. He might be a bit more jaded, but that core nature stays strong. The military shaped his life from when he was a teenager to now as an adult, but who he is as a person never changes.

That means that his motivations and personality most likely wouldn't be any different from where we see him in mwiii(23) to now during "Alone" to between "Flashpoint" in '19 - "Kill or Capture" in '22.

It also makes determining what he may have thought throughout "Alone" easier to discern as a result.

Let's imagine we are Soap and try to reason out what might have gone through his head during the mission and more importantly why.

I've already stated earlier, that Soap and Ghost probably had a prior relationship. Soap most likely prodded Ghost into responses and Ghost largely ignored it.

Soap is used to Ghost ignoring him. He expects it but is visibly disheartened (pouts) when he's cut off. At this point, he also must be used to how standoffish Ghost is.

We see it in "Kill or Capture" where its contrasted in how friendly Soap is to the marines with Ghost looking appropriately forbidding and authoritative to them, barking out orders.

In "Cartel Protection" when the LT doesn't appreciate Rudy's jokes.

In "El Sin Nombre" when Ghost noticeably doesn't join into discussions with Alejandro, Graves and Soap about infiltrating the mansion.

"Dark Waters" where he stands apart while Soap and Graves congratulate each other for averting the missile launch.

Ghost is all professionalism and silence. We see nothing of his snark, his dark humour, his dry dead pans. We do see his eyerolls and "done with life" attitude, but otherwise he's very cold.

So the events of "Alone" must be a shocker to Soap. Soap who is used to getting back nothing from Ghost suddenly now has Ghost's full attention. Honestly it felt like Ghost spent more time talking to Soap than really being worried for himself. In fact half of that mission we have Ghost already in the church tower camping away while Soap is running around ragged.

Naturally, the first thing this hot headed guy does is snark back to Ghost. The amazing thing, is that Ghost doesn't ignore Soap this time, he actually engages and matches Soap's banter.

And guess what? Soap is excited. He's intrigued and he starts off by going for Ghost's first name. To which he's suitably chased off via horribly unfunny joke.

Soap in some sense must know he went too far because he pulls back. He asks things about Ghost, he pokes but never too hard. Soap needs Ghost's help. He can't have the man get too annoyed at him. And considering their current track record, that's an actual concern.

There's a reason why Soap never addresses the nickname that Ghost made up and it has everything to do with the fact that once he does, Ghost might just stop talking to him. Soap needs Ghost to like him. His survival depends on it.

The LT has a reputation for ruthless coldness, he's a deadly killer. He's infamous in their circles and even comes with an appellation and fearsome visage. He's a mystery. His motivations are a mystery.

So Soap tries his hardest to find out if Ghost does actually like him. If not for his own curiousity and because he wants Ghost to like him, then at least for his own sake. If Ghost likes him, then that means Ghost will wait for him.

Ghost himself gives off mixed signals about what he thinks about Soap. Soap thinks Ghost might like him, but its hard to tell. Especially when Soap is distracted by enemies and all we have of Ghost are his countless implications to Soap that he is indeed the emotionless killer that everyone makes him out to be. Ghost even states outright that he barely tolerates Soap and is only doing so because he "wants one of them to survive". Seriously, what a massive liar.

Naturally, Soap takes it as it is, but probably with doubts. Soap isn't an idiot, Ghost helps him with tips, he's constantly asking for status updates. The man must sort of like him at least. But Soap also called out Ghost about them being friends and only got silence back that time. With the ensuing silence (which Soap definitely doesn't want) and every effort on that vein being redirected, it's best to leave it at that and focus on surviving. Or at least he tries.

Because Soap can't help himself, he tests the new boundaries of their relationship in other ways.

Ghost seemed to like Soap's banter. If implying that they are friends meets Soap with disdain it's best not to go further into any emotional intimacy talks. So he goes for the tried and true classic next to snark: Flirting. I don't know what it is, in the military or just in general with male dominated areas. Homoerotic undertones and gay chicken jokes seem to be king.

But this time, Ghost responds back to it, he even encourages it. And we see the flirty exchanges between them.

Does this mean that Soap actually has a crush on Ghost and that he was just using the first chance he got to go for it?

Perhaps. Soap definitely admires him (as we see in "Prison Break"). It's a very real possibility. Maybe Soap genuinely wants Ghost to like him. It's clear from all Soap's efforts to be friendly to Ghost that Soap was just waiting for the day that the LT would warm up to him. Soap strikes me as very persistent. He could be flirting with the singular goal of getting into a relationship with Ghost.

Alternatively, perhaps Soap was just joking around and the flirting was another method of coping in high stress situations.

Perhaps it's a mix of his own curiousity, disregard to authority and his own comfort in snarky jokes. We've already established that Soap in '23 is virtually indistinguishable from Soap in '19 and '22. Soap likes to banter during missions. It stands to reason that perhaps this is his way of coping in high stress situations.

What we can say, is that regardless of their personal feelings toward each other prior to this mission, if they didn't like each other before, they certainly do now.

You can tell both of them are getting a kick out of the snark, and flirting. They actively engage each other on it. They're getting to know each other personally, and finding that they can match each other on their snark level. No other person in game banters with them the way they do with each other.

It's at least a potential for more.

But the question remains. Did something physical happen between the two during the car ride to Alejandro's safe house?

It's possible. Highly unlikely though, if we consider the motivation side of things. Why?

The point remains that Soap despite flirting, is still uncertain about Ghost's motivations after the event of "Alone". We somewhat see it in how surprised he was in "Prison Break" over Ghost's declaration of teamhood status, and in how Soap pesters Ghost about their relationship. Even the flirting in dialogue at this point is within the realms of plausible deniability; it could be passed off as joking. Soap tests Ghost, but never so far as to truly push him into transforming their relationship above the comfortable limits.

I don't see Soap moving overtly into something physical unless Ghost initiates first.

Now the question is: Would Ghost initiate anything?

So now we have to reconsider Ghost's motivations. That means, you guessed it, looking at his background as well.

Simon "Ghost" Riley

We don't know much about his backstory. The official bio says he was born in Manchester, UK. He presumably went under officer training as part of the SAS.

At some point Ghost met Price before Ghost's insistence on hiding his identity/face, due to his later comments in "Ghost Team". Ghost trusts Price and more or less implies it in "Alone". Price is the only other character allowed to reference Ghost as "Simon" by the LT himself.

Interestingly enough it was stated in a comment on Reddit by an account verified game Dev that Ghost and another character "Mace" introduced in cod warzone 2020 (who also wears a skull mask), were in the same unit, "but things had changed".

Mace's bio puts him as an ex US army ranger. We can extrapolate due to Cod: Ghosts that this is a nod to the ghost squad, an elite unit of soldiers who all wore the 09 ghost balaclava set in a different universe to the original cod modern warfare games. Presumably, Ghost, Mace and others all wore the infamous skull mask in an international unit. Mace being American and Ghost being British supports the international factor.

It's noted that Mace left that same ghost unit, to later on work as a mercenary. In "Prison Break", we learn that Ghost disdains mercenaries, as "bloody wannabes". Connected? Maybe.

We know that at some point in Ghost's life he was betrayed by someone very close to him. Trust is hard for him as a result.

Perhaps something happened in that ghost squad that led to Ghost being betrayed (maybe by Mace, maybe not).

Regardless, from whenever that betrayal happened, we know that Ghost stands apart from any other soldier and we see that in "Flashpoint" up to "El Sin Nombre". Then it all changes in "Alone".

Ghost's characterisation isn't static like Soap's. It's even in his bio. Ghost was more open at one point (he didn't start life wearing a mask and he wasn't always called "Ghost"), he gets betrayed and then becomes the brusque man we see in "Flashpoint" and "Kill or Capture".

Ghost changes and by tracking those changes we can more reliably see how the LT's interpersonal relationships transform as a result.

So let's recap "Alone":

Ghost likes Soap. He admires him and wants to trust him. The LT doesn't want him to die but he thinks Soap probably will. This makes trusting and caring for Soap a detriment.

Despite himself, Ghost waits for the sergeant and distracts him with jokes to have the man focused/not panicked. Ghost denies to Soap that he actually does like him/cares. He implies he is too cold for emotions, that he doesn't care. Ghost lies, he misdirects, he deflects. Anything regarding emotional closeness is shut down.

Snark is safe though. They banter and Ghost realises that he actually does enjoy talking to Soap. Ghost has the driest sense of humour. He loves to snark.

Ghost engages with some plausible deniability flirting too. One that is borderline risqué behaviour, but pulls back against any truly overt stuff.

On that note, we can read why Ghost flirts similarly to why Soap was as well. It could be a combination of snark, competition, romantic interest or just another way of coping in high stress situations. Ghost likes to deflect by making jokes. Taking it a step further seems to be a thing he would do so that both of them can stay focused.

Ghost saves Soap's life by sniping an enemy out of the church tower. Soap proves that he is the trustworthy/admirable man the LT saw in "El Sin Nombre", by surviving and saving Ghost's life in return in the getaway truck.

Ghost who has been a solo type of guy for so long after being betrayed, finds himself thinking that maybe, just maybe he has a potential partner. One that can keep up with him.

Soap and Ghost are a team.

Ghost who has known Soap for 3 years already, most of those 3 years spent ignoring him, has his whole MO changed after their getaway from Las Almas. Up to this point, Ghost avoided being close to people whether physically or emotionally.

Soap proves Ghost wrong about not being able to survive, his likeability, his whole everything.

Ghost now has to re-evaluate his own rules about teamwork, friendship and intimacy. If he was wrong about Soap (for 3 years!), then maybe he was also wrong about other people. Maybe he could be a part of a team again.

Maybe he can even trust others too. New people who he hasn't known since forever.

There's a lot going on there. But mainly, it has to be said that this is most likely the first time in a long time Ghost has connected to another person emotionally.

We can tell by the persistent nickname usage from Ghost how much the man cares. I've mostly avoided talking about it now, since one can argue that "Alone" is a high stress moment for Ghost, therefore of course he would use it during the mission. Him using 'Johnny' now, isn't as important as it is in other missions where he uses it when it isn't a particularly stressful situation.

Or is it?

During this mission, we see Ghost use 'Johnny' when he can't see/hear Soap in danger. The terms of his nickname usage changes. From only extremely high stress situations where Ghost isn't sure Soap is alive at the beginning, to now a more casual fond usage, as one would do to somebody they liked.

Their relationship is deepening and turning into something friendly—flirty even. We get lovely exchanges where all Soap and Ghost do is repeat their names back to each other. Something said by one of them, will always garner a response back. It's actually pretty cute and holds true to the end of cod mwii and straight into cod mwiii.

It's ridiculous how much the game emphasises this point. It really wants us to see how much names matter in the context of Soap and Ghost's relationship.

Does the difference in nickname usage indicate anything substantial between "Alone" and "Prison Break"?

Inconclusive, though I'm erring on the side of no. All it shows is Ghost becoming more familiar with Soap as something resembling a friend. Could it be more in time ? Yes. At this point, as I said earlier with Soap, it's a tentative potential.

Their flirting and banter, isn't a one off from "Alone". The game could've played it like it was and we could've seen no flirting at all in later missions. "Alone" could be an outlier; it was an extremely high stress moment. Lots of things that you normally wouldn't do could happen.

But this isn't the first and last time this happens. We see it directly in "Prison Break" and every new mission after, all the way into mwiii(23). They continue to flirt, banter and snark at each other. The potential is right there and thriving.

So back to the point. Does this mean Ghost's initiates something more physical after the relief of making it out alive?

Probably not. I'm sorry guys.

It's not impossible, but I really doubt a guy this allergic to emotional connection would want to jump headfirst into a physical relationship with the (1) guy he finds himself liking for the first time in ages. That's just asking for all sorts of complications.

Granted, perhaps his views on sex are completely opposite to emotional compatibility. Ghost could very much be a one night stand type, preferably with the mask on to keep his anonymity. Remember, this guy went out of his way to erase his identity. We even hear it in dialogue at the end of cod mw(19) from Price to Laswell during the formation of 141. There isn't a photo on the dossier and even the official group chat they have for 141 labels the man as simply 'Ghost'.

But even the 'whole Ghost as a serial one night stand guy theory' has a problem, as we see Ghost visibly shy away from getting close to people. Physically and emotionally. Touch is barely tolerated and we see in "Kill or Capture" that Ghost didn't like the fistbump Soap gives him. Touch from strangers might also go the same way. In that vein, it's hard to imagine Ghost even going out for one night stands if he just barely tolerates a casual fistbump. (With much side eye)

I suppose it could be very different if/when Ghost initiates contact himself. We don't know the exact details of how that all could happen. It does however, seem unlikely with everything we know so far with Ghost and his character.

And not to mention, there's also the added complication of fraternisation rules. Ghost is Soap's direct CO. It would get them both in trouble, at possible risk to their jobs, if a relationship was ever publicly discovered. Soap wouldn't care, we already know he flouts rules. And I'd argue that Ghost probably doesn't care deeply about rules either. No one in 141 does for that matter.

I could however see Ghost using this whole thing as a big justification to himself in not pursuing anything further. Ghost cares about Soap's wellbeing. He wants Soap to be better than him. Ghost dragging Soap down into a relationship that could get them booted out of the military seems counter intuitive to that care.

Or perhaps the adrenaline of the moment would make it all different? Adrenaline does funny things to a person. I could see Soap up for it. Ghost on the other hand ? Really, really hard to say. There's nothing saying it couldn't have happened. But there's also nothing to say it did either.

So what else are we left with to look at?

Timeline.

By virtue of timeline and Soap's previous injury, I'm going to say anything happening would've been extremely unlikely. (Though still possible).

"Alone" happens directly after the events of "Dark Waters". "Dark Waters" is set on Nov 2nd 1700 hrs. We see the group presumably coming back from the mission operation at an oil rig. One can only assume that it took a while in terms of transiting from boat all the way back to the base.

Then Graves betrays them and Soap and Ghost flee to Las Almas. By the time of the mission start of "Alone", the game places it as Nov 3rd 0000 hrs or 12 am.

Soap is injured and visibly in pain at the start of the mission. Somehow he manages to find Ghost and evade all the shadows, probably by running on pure adrenaline. Soap and Ghost find a truck and leave the city.

The next time we see them it's at Ale's base and there's some light in the background indicating time has passed between "Alone" at midnight to getting to the hideout.

There's no trace of injury on Soap. Perhaps Ghost patched Soap up. Ghost could have gotten supplies while he was running through Las Almas. It's possible something happened then when Ghost had to stop somewhere to deal with Soap's bullet wound. Some sort of adrenaline-fueled rush of passion that would make Ghost ignore all his better thoughts on staying away from the handsome snarky sergeant.

But the chances of them doing anything frisky in a time slot so narrow seems highly unlikely. It's probably not feasible all things considered. When we start "Prison Break" it's STILL Nov 3rd but at 0400 hrs. So the time elapsed between was a measly 4 hours.

Remember that Ghost and Soap are on the run from Shadow Company. Outside of the bare minimum of first aid, I can't see either of them spending the scant amount of time they have getting down and dirty.

Even then, if there was a free hour or so, that time would be best spent getting properly kitted up and checking over injuries. Let's also not forget that this is off the tailwind of "Dark Waters". Soap and Ghost had not had any rest in between whatever they might've gotten on transit back to base.

Not to mention when we see the timestamp for "Prison Break", Rudy, Ghost and Soap are already at the prison at 0400 hrs. There has to be transit time between the prison and the hideout. Ghost drove out of Las Almas to the hideout and then someone drove from the hideout to the prison. It probably would've taken a fair bit of time.

Hell, it doesn't even sound like they have enough time to spare patching up Soap, depending on how far out a drive this all was.

Rudy and group also spent time planning their prison break. We see helpful pictures drawn on maps. Gathering the kit and planning would eat into that 4hr time slot as well.

So yes. Tldr; there probably wasn't any time to do much of anything realistically.

Motivation wise and timeline wise, both of them heavily suggest that nothing happened in this time frame.

A shame. But we can however say that what happened between Ghost and Soap during the events of "Alone" remains a pivotal moment for them.

One that impacts Ghost's choices throughout the rest of the missions and conversely transforms his relationship with Soap (and the rest of 141 as a result). It establishes who they are to one another and how they interact with each other into arguably the rest of their known relationship from mwii (22) and further to the end of '23.

The one thing to take away from all this is this: when it comes to tracking the changes of Ghost and Soap's relationship, it'll always be Ghost determining where it'll go.

Soap doesn't push Ghost out of his comfort zone. Soap doesn't change. It's Ghost who decides how close Soap gets to him. It'll always be Ghost that sets the tone.

Alright that's all I have to say for now on this matter. This discussion really took all my energy. The next parts will again take some time as I recoup from this essay. Lol.

Onto part (2.4) hopefully the rest of mwii, whenever I get there.

+

Comments, questions, arguments. I'm free to answer any of that. There's so much to look at here and consider. A lot of this was guess work building up to this moment. So naturally I'm sure I've missed things.

#ghostsoap #soapghost #ghost x soap #soap x ghost #simon riley #simon ghost riley #john soap mactavish #call of duty #cod mwii #cod mw2 #call of duty modern warfare #soap mactavish #ghost cod #soap cod #meta #discussion #character backstory #mace cod #ghost squad

[lurksunderthebed]

Ghoap Analysis/Meta (2.2)

The Evolution of GhostSoap Redux

More recontextualising of GhostSoap. The other half of mwii (22). Featuring everyone's favourite: "Alone".

Part (2.2/?)

BEWARE SPOILERS MWIII (23)!!!

Please check the alt text.

"Alone" remains the most compelling and vivid mission for anyone looking at Ghostsoap interactions.

It's one of the most important missions because it's the one I consider to contain the building blocks of their relationship. This is their 'getting to know each other' moment as more than just allies/reluctant coworkers.

That said I'll go over the mission from start to finish. Why? Cause why not. I love the mission too much not to give it the detail it deserves.

Alone

Graves: He's put me in command of this operation from here on out. So, y'all need to stand down. It's time to let the pros finish this.

Soap and Ghost glance sideways at each other.

Graves: And why the hell are we talking like this is some kind of a negotiation? It's not. I've got my orders and now you have yours.

Alejandro: And who the fuck do you think you are, cabron? My men are inside!

Graves: I'm afraid not. Your men have been... detained.

Alejandro glares at Graves for a second but then launches himself at him.

Alejandro: Cabron!

Graves and one of his men push Alejandro against a vehicle and restrain him with a zip tie.

Soap: Graves, what the fuck?!

Soap then attacks the Shadow besides him, forcing Graves and the remaining Shadows to open fire on the threat. Ghost elbows a second Shadow behind him in the face and then uses his knife to stab a third Shadow in the neck before throwing that same knife into the fourth Shadow. Alejandro puts his restrained arm around a Shadow's neck.

Alejandro: Get your fucking hands off of me—

Graves knocks out Alejandro in the head with his rifle butt before turning his attention back to Soap. Soap grabs his hostage's sidearm and fires at one of Graves' men, killing him. Graves shoots Soap in the arm, sending him backward to the ground with his dead hostage on top of him.

Soap: Argh!!

Graves moves to his right around the vehicle looking for Ghost. Ghost pops his head out of the vehicle's rear corner and finds Soap on the ground.

Ghost: Go, Johnny!, get out of there! Soap - Go!

Soap pushes the dead guard off of him and launches himself over the concrete barrier sliding down the hill as Graves' men fire on him.

Alright bear with me. This is a long transcript but I included the whole exchange for full context. I've bolded the two things I wanted to talk about.

First being the long glance Ghost and Soap give each other. Again, when I saw this scene I initially thought it strange. It was odd to me that Soap who had been introduced to Ghost for presumably the first time only 7 days ago was able to communicate through glances no less to Ghost so effortlessly.

I thought "wow" maybe there were large amounts of time unseen between missions. Maybe Ghost and Soap got to know each other then? Though the disdain Ghost showed to Soap and the coldness outside of missions till "Alone" seem to disprove it.

Or maybe they just shared such an instant connection this was possible? Stranger things had happen before.

But now that we have "Flashpoint" it's obvious that they've definitely worked together enough. Enough to communicate through searching looks. Not enough to know each properly or more intimately. Or for Ghost to have cared about Soap before the events of "El Sin Nombre". But an effective working relationship.

This is demonstrated here in "Alone" to great effect.

Soap and Ghost don't have to nod, they just see each other's expression. Or rather Soap sees Ghost's "I'm so done with this bs" look again. A look that Soap has triggered many times in their working relationship no less. And a look he recognised during "Cartel Protection" when he motioned for Rudy to stop joking. Soap can read Ghost surprisingly well.

So does this mean they could've had a deeper relationship before the events of mwii (22)?

Perhaps.

But again I say it's unlikely.

Soap's strength of character is so immediate that it not standing out within a staggering 3 years is unbelievable UNLESS Ghost only worked within a limited basis with him.

Remember that it's Ghost seeing Soap volunteer himself to do something recklessly brave that really causes him to change his opinion on Soap and then blurt out a nickname for the sergeant.

An unfamiliar nickname to Soap that shows Ghost's care.

Now why do I say it's unfamiliar?

Lets look at my 2nd point in this transcript.

Ghost: Go, Johnny!, get out of there! Soap - Go!

Ghost yells at Soap to go. Another high stress moment for the LT which makes him use that new nickname of his. But it's not 'Johnny' that really gets Soap to snap out of his shock. It's the name 'Soap' that does.

Now you can argue that this was a high stress moment. Soap could just respond to his military name different when he's running under a lot of adrenaline.

But thats patently untrue.

We can even prove it with the events of "Flashpoint" '19:

Soap: I'll blow your fuckin' brains out, Makarov - you hear me, I swear to god I'll do it.

Price: Soap... Soap! Don't do it!

Soap: Let me finish him!

Makarov: [Laughing]

Price: John, we have him! He's in custody. He's not going anywhere.

Price: Stand down, Sergeant.

Soap grimaces and moves away.

After Makarov taunts Soap and Ghost in the helo, we see the sports stadium blow up anyway despite Soap and Price's best efforts (to Makarov's evil glee).

This enrages Soap and he threatens to kill Makarov. Price stops him but with much pleading. And guess what? It's not the name 'Soap' that breaks through to him. It's Soap's actual name 'John' that does.

It's Price's own personal reference to Soap that changes the sergeant's mind. Cools him down from his righteous fury.

Accordingly, if 'Johnny' was a name that Ghost had used before, I can't see why it wouldn't be the prevailing name that would get Soap to really get moving. Especially since we see Ghost once again use it in high stakes moments.

'Johnny' is Ghost's personal reference to Soap just like how 'John' is Price's. Thus it should be the name given more weight in Soap's mind.

But it isn't.

It's because the name is new.

Again this demonstrates how much Ghost's relationship has changed because of "El Sin Nombre". From barely tolerated coworker to something more. It's a fascinating look.

But enough of that.

Lets get to the fun stuff: gameplay dialogue. Everyone's favourite in this mission.

But before we do, we should be reminded of this statement in part 2.1,

As we find out through "Alone", Ghost is a massive hypocrite. There's much he tells Soap to do but doesn't actually follow himself. As a result there are three things to pay attention to when discerning his motivations: His nicknames, his stares and his actions.

This is important to have at the forefront when we look at Ghost's relationship to Soap. Especially when we take apart the dialogue because it really shows Ghost's 'do as I say and not as I do' mentality.

I've also mostly ignored putting in all the snarky jokes up as that would mean having the entirety of the mission dialogue here. Just know that this mission is the FIRST time that Ghost entertains Soap's jokes and even makes his own jokes back to keep Soap focused on making it out alive. Despite all his efforts, Ghost is finally warming up to Soap and getting hopelessly attached. It only took 7 days.

Gameplay Dialogue

Soap: This is Bravo 7-1, in the blind... How copy...? Ghost, this is 7-1, do you copy?

The radio crackles with static.

Soap: Fuck...Where are you, Ghost?

Soap gets back up on his feet and limps forward a few steps before collapsing forward to the ground.

Ghost: (over radio) Soap- This is Ghost, how copy?

Soap doesn't answer.

Ghost: Johnny...?

Soap touches his wounded arm and sees how bloody it is.

Ghost: Johnny... How copy?

Soap: Solid.

Ghost: Thought we lost you.

Here we see Ghost try to contact Soap normally. Then we see him panic internally, (though it's not obvious in tone), by switching to 'Johnny' when he gets no response from Soap. Another high stress moment for Ghost that he himself sort of acknowledges by saying that he thought they lost Soap. This guy is not fooling anyone in how much he cares.

Interestingly enough Soap never acknowledges the nickname until "Prison Break" and that was to Alejandro. Perhaps Soap knows that Ghost will just clam up if he asks about it from Ghost himself. This is also supported by dialogue.

Soap: Creepin'...

Ghost: What are you seein'?

Soap: A bloodbath.

Ghost: Watch your arse.. You got exactly zero allies down there...

Soap: We're friends, no...?

Ghost: We're teammates... Friendship's not in the field manual, Johnny...

Soap: Neither is mask making...

The moment Soap mentions Ghost as more than teammates/coworkers Ghost downplays it. It's obvious that emotional attachment is something Ghost strives to avoid.

The irony of the spooky man's rebuke is that he immediately defaults to using Soap's nickname right after it. Of course, Soap calls out Ghost on the hypocrisy. Ghost doesn't have a response back. Soap leaves it there, though again, failing to comment on the nickname and how much Ghost seems to like using it.

But why doesn't Soap mention it?

The answer lies in the situation. Soap knows that pushing for more, for an explanation would mean Ghost stonewalling him again. And Soap needs all the friends he can get to survive.

It does beg the question though, did Soap see Ghost as a friend prior to "Kill or Capture"? His casual attitude and fistbump at the start of the cutscene with Ghost tells us, yes probably.

We see throughout the game that Soap is physically affectionate with those he likes.

"Kill or Capture" had Soap fistbumping the marine in the helo before the depart. "El Sin Nombre" and "Dark Waters" had Soap exchanging more fistbumps and a hug to Graves. It's obvious that Soap is a tactile guy.

Hell, we even have "Flashpoint" in '19 to suggest Soap saw Ghost as a friend as well! Shocked? Me too.

There's a bit of dialogue exchanged between Makarov and Soap when he was pushing him to get to the HLZ (landing zone for helo transport).

Price: Visual on the exit. This way.

Soap: Walk!

Soap shoving Makarov forward.

Soap: Time to meet some friends of mine.

Makarov: Where are they?

Soap: Close.

The only ones they meet in the helo is Shepherd and guess who, our boy Ghost. Insert Jazz hands. It's funny Soap thinks of Ghost as a friend when the LT really stonewalls him. We hear probably the most brisk conversation from Ghost to Soap ever when Ghost provides sniper cover to Soap. There is no acknowledgement from Ghost to Soap at all. Not even a casual sergeant or Mactavish.

Now Soap could be referring to 'friends' as a let me show you my very threatening coworker who is infamous for his interrogation skills. Ha ha rot in hell ya bastard. Sort of thing. That's probably what the game meant to imply.

But the idea of Soap having a onesided friendship to Ghost for 3 years (complete with fistbumps and snarky jokes) and Ghost just sort of tolerating it cause he can't avoid the sergeant, is desperately funny.

Considering how much Ghost side eyes and rolls his eyes around the sergeant. I wouldn't at all be surprised that's how it went for them.

Anyhow back to more gameplay dialogue.

Ghost: Advise you move interior if you're not already. It's good cover.

Soap enters the garage and finds a locked door.

Soap: No joy... Door's locked.

Ghost: Look for supplies- things you can make tools with. Welcome to guerrilla warfare...

Again, if Ghost is trying to show how little he cares about Soap he's just failing miserably. Here we see Ghost showing Soap how to deal in a situation that is unfamiliar to him. Ghost desperately wants Soap to live and make it out.

Soap: Broke off a fan blade.

Ghost: Tie off the blade with the rope and pry open a door.

Soap: Sounds like you've done this before...

Ghost: Years of practice...

Another example but this time we see how little Soap knows about Ghost. I feel that if they were closer, Soap would know that Ghost has experience in situations such as these.

But no, this is a teaching moment for Ghost, one where he sees Soap manage to make it out despite the odds against him again (the first time being "El Sin Nombre") and a time for both Soap and Ghost to get to know each other more.

And then we come across this golden nugget. This one is the clearest example of Ghost's complicated relationship with intimacy and trust.

Soap: Oowf...

Ghost: What's the latest?

Soap: Mercs are killing everything in their path.

Ghost: War crimes...

Soap: Makes me want to commit a few war crimes of my own...

Ghost: Tyranny. It won't stand.

Soap: Think we'll get a green light to go after these guys.

Ghost: No more green lights, Johnny. We're on our own.

This last line is critical. But more on that, with the next dialogue that follows after. There are several options but I'll choose the Price dialogue.

Soap: What about Captain Price?

Ghost: Price isn't here, is he...? The old man can't bail us out. Not this time.

There's an option to deny or agree that Price is someone to trust.

Here's if you say you trust Price.

Soap: I trust the Captain - if he knew, he'd be here.

Ghost: Be careful who you trust, Sergeant. People you know can hurt you the most.

Here's if you don't.

Soap: I don't trust anyone- Don't trust anyone right now, even Price.

Ghost: We'll see. Just make sure you can trust yourself. Start there.

Now what does this tell us?

Lets look at the this bit.

Ghost: No more green lights, Johnny. We're on our own.

As I said earlier this line is very important. Consider Ghost and Soap's relationship at the start of "Kill or Capture". Ghost barely tolerates Soap. He mostly does solo missions and if he's team lead, then it's not in a group of people he sees consistently. He's nominally a lone wolf. It's even in the dialogue later, "[Ghost] (is) used to working alone".

But now it's no longer Ghost and 'sergeant I have to tolerate', it's SoapAndGhost against the world. They can't rely on anyone else but each other. Not Price, not Alejandro, not Laswell. Just Soap and just Ghost: they've become a unit.

Ghost could have said to Soap, "You're on your own." He could've left Soap to die; it would've been easier on Ghost if he did realistically. He knows where Alejandro's safe house is, he's not injured, has better skills, weapons, positioning to just leave outright. But he doesn't.

Ghost is there helping him. Ghost misdirects, he outright lies, he is a massive hypocrite. But even here he can't quite lie to himself. He frames it himself as not a "You have to do this to help yourself". It's a "We have to help each other".

Afterwards they talk about trust. I actually find it revealing of Ghost's own complexities about it. Here he contradicts himself.

Let's look at the next three possible exchanges.

Soap: What about Captain Price?

Ghost: Price isn't here, is he...? The old man can't bail us out. Not this time.

When asked about who to rely on, he outright states that Price is someone they can. Just that they can't rely on him now because he isn't there with them. It's implied that Price is someone that Ghost trusts.

Then in the next bit, he says the opposite.

Soap: I trust the Captain - if he knew, he'd be here.

Ghost: Be careful who you trust, Sergeant. People you know can hurt you the most.

When Soap says that he trusts Price, Ghost gives a rebuttal: telling Soap to be careful of who he trusts and that the people close to him could hurt them the most. So he implies to Soap that Price isn't trustworthy.

If Soap says he doesn't trust Price or anyone,

Soap: I don't trust anyone- Don't trust anyone right now, even Price.

Ghost: We'll see. Just make sure you can trust yourself. Start there.

Instantly, Ghost implies that he should trust Price with a 'we'll see' and a please trust yourself (and not get hurt). Unsaid was the 'I don't even trust you, [Ghost]' from Soap that actually might've pained Ghost. Especially since Ghost is going out of his way to help Soap.

So what is it for Ghost?

It's obvious he trusts Price a great deal. Out of everyone in 141, he's the next closest person Ghost is to anyone. Price has seen him without the mask; it's implied they have worked together for years. Price is even allowed to refer to Ghost with his first name, seen later in "Ghost Team" and in Cod Warzone when we first see reboot Ghost.

Why does he have to give round about answers to Soap then?

The answer lies in the fact that Ghost implies to have been betrayed once by someone very close to him. It shows that Ghost's trust is hard earned and exactly why he tries so hard to not get attached to people. The people closest to him have broken his trust and hurt him.

Most importantly underneath it all, it's very clear that he doesn't want Johnny to ever go through that.

Ghost tells him to be careful, how to lie low, to keep calm through banter. He's always checking in to Soap. He's giving weapon tips. He's making silly dad jokes. He cares about Johnny more than just the physical. He worries about his emotional state as well.

They and the rest of the team got betrayed by a trusted ally. One that we see Ghost and Soap have worked with since '19. Its painful.

At this moment it's obvious Ghost sees himself in Soap. Just like him in the past, he sees Soap get betrayed by long term allies—friends even.

But more than that, he sees Soap as someone better than himself. This is even suggested in the next dialogue bit.

Soap: Good advice, L.T. I wanna be like you when I grow up.

Ghost: You wanna be better than me, Johnny...

At this point, the player can choose a few more dialogue options.

1. Soap: I will be. Ghost: Good man.

2. Soap: Got my work cut out then. Ghost: That you do...

3. Soap: Maybe, I already am... Ghost: Now's your chance to prove it.

Now, Ghost doesn't outright state it, but he more or less says he sees the potential of Soap to be someone much better than him. (And wants him to be).

Why do I think Ghost already sees him as the better man?

Because of the events of "El Sin Nombre". That one moment that captures Ghost's gaze, the defining point to Soap in the entire game: Soap walking into the cartels hands.

Again, let me remind you that Soap didn't get volun-told. He volunteered for a task that even Ghost wouldn't do. And it's this moment that forever changes how Ghost sees him.

Ghost is impressed. Ghost admires Soap for it. Soap was the better man that day. He proved it to Ghost then.

So why does Ghost imply there's only potential?

This is why:

Soap: Think I'll live that long?

Ghost: Probably not...

Ghost doesn't think Soap will live through the events of "Alone". He wants to motivate Soap to get through Las Almas and find Ghost despite the odds stacked against him. He desperately wants this man, Johnny, to live. He wants to trust this reckless man. But he doesn't think Soap will live long enough for it to matter. This disbelief that Soap will make it out comes up constantly and at the end of the mission to great effect.

Moving on, pretty early in the mission, we get the first mention of Ghost's name from Soap.

Soap: Did you see the caged dog?

Ghost: Big geezer. If he barks, shoot him and repo quickly- Don't get compromised...

Soap: You are stone cold, Simon.

Ghost: What has two legs and bleeds?

Soap: Don't tell me... Ghost: Half a dog... Soap: I asked you not to tell me.

We see Soap leaning into this new closeness with Ghost by using his name. A name we only see Price use. A name that is the very implication of intimacy to a man that goes out of his way to hide his identity.

Soap is testing boundaries. Now that we know they've known each other for awhile, it's clear that Soap has always wanted them to be closer. The moment Soap gets a chance, he pushes for what prob is the 'holy grail' of closeness to Ghost. If not seeing his bare face, then being on a first name basis is a big one.

And Ghost instantly deflects with a joke to get away from that intimacy. A terrible joke, Ghost knows Soap won't appreciate. Ghost's later jokes were actually sort of funny in a "puntastic" way. This one is just plain shitty.

The best part, is that Soap must understand that Ghost isn't comfortable with him using his name either. Not at this point, for this is the only time we see Soap use 'Simon' the whole game.

We can read the whole bit as Ghost playing into the shock factor of willing to kill a pet and bantering back easy. But a more interesting alternative reading is that Ghost was uncomfortable with the name usage and deflected with a horrible joke. One that indirectly confirms to Soap that Ghost is indeed stone cold.

I like to pick the alternative because this deflection from intimacy, care, worry happens constantly.

It even happens in the next dialogue:

Soap finds a balcony and drops down to the street, collapsing to the ground as he does so. He gets back up and leaves the house.

Ghost: Gimme a sit-rep.

Soap: Outside... Gated alley.

Ghost: Stick to the edges and stay low.

Soap: Copy.

Ghost: You may get a brag rag for this...

Soap: A medal?

Ghost: Chest candy.

At this point, the player can choose from several dialogue options.

1. Soap: That's all rubbish.

2. Soap: Dead Shadows are my medals.

3. Soap: I deserve one.

Ghost: You said you wanted a win. Congratulations, you're a winner...

Soap: Away n' bile yer heid!

Ghost: English, MacTavish...

Soap: Sorry, sir, let me translate... "Go fuck yourself."

Ghost: Much better.

Lets break it down simply. Ghost hears Soap get injured. Ghost instantly asks if he's okay. Soap says he is. Ghost is worried, decides to deflect his worry and distract Soap by enticing him with medal talk. To which then he goads Soap into getting pissed at him to fire up his spirits.

We can see it as another, 'Ghost jokes to make Soap feel better' moment.

But what if we look it the other way around?

He's not only doing this for Soap, he's doing this for himself as well.

This is uncomfortable territory for Ghost. Caring that is. Jokes are made to distract both Ghost and Soap from thinking too hard on Soap's slim chances of survival. Not Ghost's survival. That was never truly a worry. Especially with all of Ghost's skill and prior knowledge.

Again this is shown in the very next bit:

Ghost: Church is on the north side of the city. I've set up a sniper position in the church tower. Find your way there, and you might just make it.

Ghost is already set up at the church. He's well kitted out with a bloody sniper rifle of all things. How he got it when Soap and Ghost ran from their vehicles is a mystery. He's literally metres away from the very vehicle that Soap and Ghost use to get away later. Ghost would be able to easily make it out there. It's even in his wording here. It's not a "we just might make it" it's a "you might just make it".

Contrast to Soap who's injured, weaponless and completely new to solo stealth operations like this. Ghost is worried. He's right to be. Cue all the cute banter and flirting between them.

We come across this as well.

Soap: Ghost, you missing a knife...?

Ghost: Several.

Soap: Think I found one.

Ghost: Some of the dead Shadows are my handiwork...

Soap: You came through here?

Ghost: On my way to the church.

Soap: And you left me?

Ghost: I'm used to working alone.

Soap: So much for no man left behind.

Ghost: Just get yourself to the church. Tryin' to keep you alive and get you here in one piece. One of us needs to survive to tell the tale.

Soap: Taken a shine to me, then?

Ghost: Not in the slightest. Still got a lot of ground to cover.

Soap is hurt about getting left which is more of a given considering they've known each for 3 years already.

We see Ghost's disbelief that Soap will get out of this situation alive. In a strange way, this is also Ghost testing Soap. He wants to trust Soap, something that he more or less stated was hard for him to do. If Soap is that admirable/trustworthy man he saw in "El Sin Nombre" then Soap will do the impossible and survive.

Ghost scrambles to find an excuse for leaving him and plays his hand: that he's indeed taken a shine to Soap by admitting to trying to keep him alive. Soap calls him out and Ghost lies between his teeth about survival. As we established, Ghost could easily leave then wait around. Survival for Ghost is not an issue. In fact, his survival is threatened by staying longer than necessary.

Again, we see him deflect his attachment.

We see this happen multiple times over and in many forms even.

Another being Ghost's insistence to come across as a stone cold killer to Soap constantly. We see it in the horrible dog joke earlier, where Ghost leans into his willingness to kill pets if necessary, and more damnably here:

Soap: Yes... L.T., about to play rough with the Shadows...

Ghost: I like the sound 'o that.

Soap: Fashioned a trip mine...

Ghost: A man after my own heart...

At this point, the player has several dialogue options.

1. Soap: Thought you'd like that. Ghost: You thought right.

2. Soap: You have a heart? Ghost: A cold one...

3. Soap: That's a scary thought. Ghost: You learn fast, Johnny.

If we ignore the flirty banter in the first chunk and focus on the answers, we see that all three answers have an emphasis (some more than others) on how 'emotionless' and cold Ghost is. Ghost tells Soap he's dangerous, that he's a killer who enjoys making men afraid of him. That he has zero emotions—that he doesn't care. Which is so hilariously untrue of Ghost's actions and words towards Soap during this mission that I find it funny he even tried. Ghost cares. That's not in question here.

The bigger question is, does Soap buy Ghost's act?

That question is somewhat answered in the next mission, "Prison Break" but I will leave it for later analysis. (I'll get there I promise!)

Lets get back to more deflections wooh babey!

Cause we got this iconic example of Ghost's attachment and a deflection to talk about:

Ghost: Rain's good. It'll cover your tracks.

Soap: Covers theirs too...

Ghost: Let's worry about you, Johnny.

Soap: So, you do like me?

Ghost: I like you alive...

Soap asks multiple times if Ghost likes him now. He's very persistent. If Soap was attached to him before as a onesided friend, it's changing into something else now. With Ghost helping him, entertaining all his jokes, ACTUALLY matching his snark for the first time in 3 years, Soap can't help but push for more.

This mission is the first time we see Ghost have any sort of personality beyond brusque professionalism and Soap is delighted. If we consider "Kill or Capture" Ghost as default, then the past 3 years had Ghost cutting off any banter or just staying silent. This Ghost that has the most deadpan sense of humour is something new, something Soap wants to see more of.

That's why we see so much of what I can only describe unequivocally as "Very Flirty Behaviour" later.

Re iconic scenes:

Soap: I'm in the coffee shop.

Ghost: Get us a tea.

Soap: Fucking Brits... You're gonna owe me for this.

Ghost: Why?

Soap: We're fixing each other's problems.

Ghost: What's my problem?

Soap: The mask... Take it off...

Ghost: Show my face?

Soap: Yes, sir.

Ghost: Negative.

Soap: Are you ugly?

Ghost: Quite the opposite.

Soap: I doubt that.

And:

Soap: L.T.- I'm at the bar.

Ghost: You like tequila?

Soap: Could use one right about now. 

Ghost: I'd murder for a whiskey. 

Soap: You mean Scotch? 

Ghost: I drink bourbon. 

Soap: Like a good ol' boy... 

Ghost: I love Kentucky. 

Soap: You're out o' your mind, L.T. 

Ghost: That's for sure.

Now what can we say of this? I see it as Soap testing the new boundaries of their relationship. We see this earlier with Soap's usage of 'Simon'. That effort was deflected. Using Ghost's name was too much and we see the LT make a joke that lands intentionally poorly.

But you know what doesn't land poorly? Very very blunt flirting. Soap goes for the throat and asks questions about Ghost he's probably always wondered.

As we see here in this other dialogue possibility:

Soap: L.T.- I'm at the bar.

Ghost: You like tequila?

Soap: No. Tastes like dog piss.

Ghost: I'll take your word for it.

Soap: Got a tactical use for dog piss?

Ghost: Wolf hunting. They follow the scent.

Soap: Do you hunt with the mask on?

Ghost: Naturally. The camo version.

Soap: I'll bet you sleep with that thing?

Ghost: Soundly.

Soap: You're out o' your mind, L.T.

Ghost: That's for sure.

Ghost isn't deflecting by making poor jokes or shutting it down. He's actually continuing the conversation. It's almost a strange sideways game of gay chicken, except the flirting is fine and even extended. It's when Soap gets too close emotionally (as seen in prior dialogue) that Ghost shuts it down.

The rest is fine, enjoyed even. The assortment of terrible "dad" jokes Ghost inflicts on Soap alongside the flirting Ghost does back to Soap shows Ghost's willingness to play along.

Ghost is having fun with Soap.

He's clearly getting a laugh out of how much he can make the sergeant roll his eyes. He's giving a taste of what he had to endure with Soap's constant prodding back to him. They are delineating the new boundaries of their relationship, redefining it and finding a kindred soul—someone who can match each other's snark and banter.

A good question to ask is why this didn't happen earlier in those 3 years? Soap is a cheeky lil shit. Ghost is secretly a snarky bastard. He's probably had all these rejoinders said back to Soap in his mind everytime Soap prodded him. They could match each others bark. Ghost knows this, but he refrained from joking back. Why?

Again, it's because he never saw Soap as anything else but a faceless soldier, one that wouldn't stop talking on comms and was too overly familiar with him. Soap likes to play with fire; testing a man known for being stone cold is something he would absolutely do. It's obvious emotional closeness is something Ghost avoids. Thus, it's something Soap would no doubt bug Ghost with. And the sergeant demonstrates it in "Kill or Capture" with his cheekiness, his unwanted touches, his gall to approach Ghost with more than a healthy respect for his skill.

But now, Ghost realises that Soap truly is more than what he thought for so long. He's even fun to be around. And an even more damning thought lays there in Ghost's mind.

What else was he wrong about too?

And so we get to near the end of the mission:

Soap: Think I found a way through, L.T.

Ghost: Shadows are everywhere. I'll hold 'em off until we RV in front of the church and secure a vehicle for exfil.

Soap: Roger that.

Ghost: Give 'em hell, Johnny- We're almost there.

Note the "we" there. It's stuck in Ghost's mind. They're a unit. Partners against the world.

And then finally:

Ghost: Johnny, stay close. Heads up for a vehicle we can take.

Eventually, Soap and Ghost reach a pickup truck nearby.

Ghost: Soap, pickup truck ahead. Lights on.

Soap: See it!

Ghost: I'll drive, Johnny- take shotgun!

Ghost uses 'we' again. He uses it plenty of times throughout the mission when he forgets himself and halfway steps into seeing them as more than reluctant teammates. But its contrasted with the next bit where he doesn't. And this is another defining moment for Ghost and Soap:

Soap and Ghost enter the truck with Soap in the passenger seat and Ghost behind the wheel.

Ghost: Alright, Johnny- You made it...

Soap: We made it, L.T.

We see the camera pan to Ghost, getting ready to drive. He tells Soap, "You made it..."

Soap proves himself to Ghost. He truly is that better man that Ghost saw a couple days back. Ghost is proven wrong in his quiet supposition that Soap won't make it: Johnny is worthy of his trust, his admiration. It's him alone, that managed to get out by himself.

But its not really.

And a pivotal moment that'll stick in Ghost's memories happens.

The camera pans to show what Ghost sees. And it's a compelling one.

Soap in that soft lighting, telling him that it's not Johnny who made it out alone. It's them both. "We made it, LT."

They're a team. Ghost and Soap aren't alone; they have each other.

If we think about the mission on a whole, we realise the irony of the mission's title. It's named "Alone". And we play as Soap being yes—alone. But he's actually not alone at all.

He has Ghost.

And it's only because of Ghost that Soap managed to survive. The title "Alone" becomes less that and more "Alone [together]".

The last scene really drives it through our head.

The truck comes under fire from the Shadows. Soap fires back with his pistol.

Ghost: Hold fast...!

Ghost puts the truck in reverse and runs over the two Shadows firing on them.

Soap: That's one way o' doin' it!

Soap spots a Shadow to the left of Ghost.

Soap: Get back!

Soap shoots and kills the Shadow.

Ghost: Thanks.

Soap: Drive- I'll cover us!

Here we end it off with Ghost and Soap united. Working as a newly minted team, a unit. Ghost saved Soap's life by sticking back and waiting for him. Soap pays the favour back by saving Ghost from getting shot. They're equals, partners. From here on out it's SoapAndGhost against the world.

For the sake of not making this post even longer and giving a moment for people to digest, I'll split this right here.

I'll put the actual discussion of Soap and Ghost's relationship so far into the next post. In it, I'll answer the question we all had in our minds, "Did something romantic happen between Ghost and Soap after the events of 'alone'?" I'll go over what I mostly avoided here, which is Soap's motivations/characterization. I've mostly focused on Ghost's though this post. Gotta make one on Soap.

Right so on to the alone part (2.3) lol 😂. When I get there.

+

Any comments, arguments, concerns, feel free to ask.

#ghostsoap #john soap mactavish #simon ghost riley #soapghost #ghost x soap #simon riley #call of duty #soap x ghost #cod mwii #cod mw2 #cod mw3 #cod mwiii #call of duty modern warfare #captain price #soap mactavish #ghost cod #meta

[lurksunderthebed]

To the nonny that talked about the ending of mwiii: I believe the reason why they chose to end it that way had everything to do with narrative parallelling from the OG cod modern warfare (1-3) Completely my opinion, but yes I agree, there was very little homophobia to do with mwiii, and if there was we wouldn't get the dialogue we do now in that game, nor would Ghost and Soap's relationship be noticeably different from '22 to '23.

I wasn't sure if I should post your ask up, because of the spoilers, but yeahhh thanks for reading my long winded takes lol. I'm glad you enjoyed them so far. 🫡

#ask

[lurksunderthebed]

First of all hi! Looking forward to your GhostSoap analyses, I've read a couple of them and I'm already droven into them!

As a parting gift I'd like to share one particular observation of mine during GhostSoap's convo with Laswell. Soap asks her whether she prefers mountains or the beach to which she asks if she really must choose only for Ghost to say "Little o' both. That's the way, Laswell" now i could be reaching and stretching this out but the way he said it maaaan, it makes me believe that it's a nod to Ghost potentially being pansexual or even bi. Regardless, i know it's most probably him being a dork but I'll take any crumb i can get really. Would love to know what you think tho! Have a good one 🫡

Thanks for reading my stuff and I'm glad you enjoyed it so far. 💞

That being said, I saw that bit of dialogue, and I got to say this: I think that comment was to be taken literally. In the context, Soap and Ghost were idly making convo and remarking on random things they saw in mission. There's more dialogue further that suggests they were just commenting on their surroundings. Aka, the beach comment and Soap saying he actually prefers snowboarding over hanging at the beach.

There sadly isn't any definitive bit of dialogue that suggests which way anyone leans unfortunately. Not so far into what I've seen at least.

You are of course welcome to read into it however you want though!

Have a good one nonny ! 💗🫡

#ask

[lurksunderthebed]

Ghoap Analysis/Meta (2.1)

The Evolution of GhostSoap Redux

Recontextualising mwii(22) Ghost and Soap dialogue and what it could mean.

(Part 2.1/?)

BEWARE SPOILERS TO MWIII(23)!!!

As I said in part 1,

I, and arguably most of fandom had theorised that "Kill or Capture" was the first mission that Soap and Ghost ever had together. And we weren't quite right, but we weren't completely wrong either.

With Flashpoint, it's obvious now, that was not quite true. It even suggests in it that Ghost and Soap had worked together prior to even that, as there was no formal introduction between the two.

This dramatically changes how we can read their dialogue in mwii(22)

So let's go into the biggest bits of mwii(22).

Please also check the alt text.

Kill or Capture

"Kill or Capture" is the first mission players see Ghost and Soap together. Lets look into the first conversation.

Shepherd: (over radio) You're wheels-up in five.

Ghost: Roger.

Shepherd: Marines are loading in now. You and the Sergeant are leading the way on this.

A truck drives up and off-loads the Marines and Sergeant Johnny "Soap" MacTavish.

Ghost: The Sergeant?

Soap walks up to Ghost, brimming with enthusiasm.

Soap: Let's get ourselves a win, yeah, L.T.? Save ya a seat, sir...

Soap fist-bumps Ghost's shoulder and walks toward the plane.

Ghost: Fucking hell...

Shepherd: Ghost- you copy?

Ghost: Yes, sir.

Shepherd: Any issues?

Ghost: Negative, sir. Out here.

As I have stated previously, "Flashpoint" proves that Ghost and Soap have worked together 3 years ago prior to "kill or capture".

When I first watched this scene I assumed that Ghost was unhappy to be tacked on with a random sergeant by Shepherd.

Obviously this was wrong.

Ghost mentally and physically rolls his eyes here. If he's unhappy with a FNG/rando this makes perfect sense. Even the next dialogue suggests it, as he goads Soap into "keeping up" with him.

Ghost: Bravo Team offloads here. Alpha Team stays onboard to land downrange. Both teams meet in the middle. Remember, we want Hassan alive, but this is capture or kill.

Bravo Team stands up, including Soap who trades fist-bumps with a fellow Marine and joins Ghost.

Ghost: Keep up, Soap.

But this can't be true with "Flashpoint". Ghost knows Soap is at least competent from that mission in '19. He saw Soap handle himself out of a tricky situation. Ghost even calls out Soap for stealing one of his kills. The sergeant has Price to vouch for him as well.

So the question remains. Why is Ghost peeved at Soap joining him?

There's a variety of answers here, I said in part 1 that it might be that Soap had annoyed him in a limited capability over coms. There definitely have been times where Ghost tells Soap to cut the chatter in 2022. That could be a possibility.

If "Flashpoint" was Soap and Ghost's first mission together Ghost could also have remembered when Soap lost his head and threatened to kill Makarov in the heli. Only to have Price pull Soap back at the last moment.

He could be unhappy to be saddled with a known hot head. Add with the chatterbox issue and yeah, I could see Ghost making Soap prove he can follow orders. The next dialogue proves it as well.

Ghost: Alpha, how copy...?

Alpha 0-2: Bravo- Alpha is immobile. Multiple critical! Oh, shit-! We're taking effective fire!

Ghost: Alpha, we're moving to building 1. Hold tight!

Soap: Ghost, we need to secure that crash site now.

Ghost: First, we clear for Hassan, that takes the heat off Alpha. Then, we secure the crash site. Clear?

Soap: Roger that.

Hard to show, but in game, there was a definite emphasis in the clear. Ghost expects Soap to not follow him. Soap proves him wrong.

This also supports my theory that Soap had never worked directly under Ghost in those 3 years. If he did, then Ghost wouldn't be so uncertain about Soap; they would have already done this whole circus already. Ghost wouldn't have to goad him, and he def wouldn't need to emphasize so hard on the matter either.

Which also implies that their relationship was non existent up to that point. At most they were coworkers coexisting. Ghost would've considered Soap to have been an annoying hot head while Soap thought of him as a living legend (as we find out later in mwii (22) from his praises to Ghost).

This is a departure from the popular idea of Soap being "The Fucking New Guy" that has to prove himself competent. Ghost already knows he vaguely is. He's seen it for himself. Ghost just doesn't like Soap 🤣🤣🤣.

It's also supported in our timeline: Soap was already part of 141 by 2020 in Cod Warzone. Considering that Ghost and Soap have worked together previously in '19, it would be strange to not have them working on some missions together. Maybe not directly, but in the same mission roster. Ghost even sees Soap fight again in Dec 2020 when Price and co go and backup Soap in Verdansk.

Another possibility to consider would be that ghost didn't want to have any sort of partner/person he was responsible for.

As in the previous mission "Strike", and in cod warzone Mar 2020, we see Ghost going on solo missions. He seems to prefer it, infiltrating and disappearing like his namesake.

Perhaps having a subordinate is something he actively hates.

WHICH MAKES MWIII(23) MORE DELICIOUS. That means we see Ghost go from "I don't want a partner ever, especially not someone like this dumbass(4 years ago)" to asking Soap if he wanted to go on a mission with him and being paired with him always in mwiii(23). Until he isn't.

But more on that in part 3.

Lets go to the next mission.

Cartel Protection

Alejandro looks at Ghost.

Alejandro: Lieutenant... Laswell says they call you Ghost.

Soap: Actually, I believe he prefers to be—

Ghost: That'll do.

When I first watched the introduction of Ghost and Soap to Alejandro and Rudy, I always found this conversation to be a bit jarring.

How would Soap know anything of Ghost? They were just introduced. Given the later implication of Ghost being some sort of legend, it's possible there was a different nickname hovering around. Or more embarrassingly, ghost preferred to go around being called "The Ghost" like how Soap says it to Rudy in "Prison Break".

With new context, perhaps there's more credence to a different name that was used during both of their SAS days working missions together. Perhaps there was a name that Price used instead? We'll never know. But it does set the tone of their relationship.

There's a comfortableness of Soap around Ghost. It's obvious in how Soap is able to joke around with Ghost despite his very imposing appearance. I assumed at the time it was down to Soap's fearlessness and his brightness. Having a spooky lieutenant wasn't gonna stop him from being his usual snarky excitable self.

Now I'm thinking more on Soap being comfortable, not only because of his character, but because he's worked with Ghost before. The fistbump and smile when Soap first sees Ghost in "Kill or Capture" supports it. There's an ease there (but also an unfamiliarness in their dialogue to each other in later missions) that speaks of a prior relationship. One that appears to be of (1) barely tolerant grump and (1) overly happy sunshine child that talks way too much.

This exchange seems to be a common occurrence and Soap already has a sense when jokes go too far (which would entail Ghost cutting Soap off with a gruff "That'll do" or his unamused dead stare).

We see this with this next bit:

Rodolfo looks at Ghost through his rearview mirror.

Rodolfo: With your mask, you will fit in well here, Ghost.

Soap visibly tries to tell Rudy to stop joking with a classic 'cut it out' gesture and very wide eyes.

Alejandro: Ay, calmada... (Hey, easy...)

Again, this makes much more sense now that we know Soap and Ghost have worked together before. How many times has this happen with Soap in Rudy's shoes in the past 3 years? Taking one joke too far and resulting with a stony grim faced lieutenant that is visibly done with him? It's a wild thought.

What's even wilder is that we see this change in the next few days.

From Ghost cutting Soap off here in "Cartel Protection" to encouraging banter and making jokes to him in "Alone". But its surprisingly not "Alone" that was the turning point. It was THE definitive mission yes, but it's actually the mission, "El Sin Nombre", that has Ghost changing his mind about Soap.

Why?

Lets see.

El Sin Nombre

Graves: Correcto. Get one of us inside, find the boss... roll him up.

Soap: I'll do it.

Alejandro: You go in there, and they'll kill you, hermano.

Soap: I'll take my chances. We came here to stop a missile, let's stop it. I'll offer intel for a meet with Sin Nombre. And if he's there, we pounce.

Alejandro: Órale. Tienes huevos, cabron. (Hell yeah- you've got balls, you son of a bitch.) You make it in, you'll need eyes and ears. I'll go too.

Ghost: I'll take overwatch. Shadow circles the target in a helo.

This is Soap's character defining moment. Here we see the crux of him: a fearless man, reckless and fiery. One crazy enough to brave getting purposely caught and taken for interrogation by cartel members.

But its not only us viewers who see this. It's also Ghost as well. We've already established that Ghost has a bare bones relationship with Soap. He'll work together with him, even compliment him on his skill while on missions, but anything closer than that-Ghost is noticeably cold.

Ghost doesn't tolerate Soap's jokes in or outside of missions, AND he most definitely doesn't joke back to him ever.

However, this moment impresses Ghost and we see him observing Soap while he gets himself purposely caught here:

Ghost spots Soap approaching the guards with his hands up in the air. The guards raise their weapons and fire warning shots on the ground in front of Soap, who complies with their orders.

Ghost: Visual on Soap.

Graves: Moment o' truth...

The guards force Soap to his knees.

Alejandro: They see him?

Ghost: They do now...

Ghost watches as the guards communicate on their radio with their guns pointed at Soap's head. They throw a black bag over Soap's head, haul him up to his feet, and perform a body search for weapons.

Ghost: They're taking him in.

Graves: Kid's got sand.

The guards escort Soap through the front gate.

Alejandro: I hope he makes it...

This is Ghost's defining moment to his relationship with Soap. Ghost is on overwatch. Probably done this a million times over. But this time it's different.

Who is this annoying man that would volunteer for something not even Ghost would dare do?

To leave himself exposed, in the hands of cartel members–tortured/killed if he says the wrong things. Ghost finds himself intrigued, invested for the first time in a long time. He wants Soap to succeed and not get killed. He cares.

And this is explicitly shown here. In this mission there's several ways to complete it. One of these options involve Ghost's help:

(If Soap heads outside the villa where Ghost can spot him...)

Ghost: Got a visual on you, Johnny. There's a trellis outside you can take to the roof.

Soap: What about Diego's keycard?

Ghost: Your call.

Ghost provides Soap with some hints.

Ghost: The AC units could get you on top of the garage. There's a ledge above you, Johnny.

Alejandro: Could help you get around that guard.

(If Soap climbs up the trellis to the roof...)

Soap: Moving to the roof.

Alejandro: Copy that! I'll be right behind you!

Soap reaches the roof and spots the guards.

Ghost: Multiple cartel up there. We'll have to clear it.

(If he kills the guards with Ghosts's help...)

Ghost: Roof's clear.

Soap proceeds further.

Ghost: Penthouse is in the north corner. Check the penthouse. I'll cover you.; El Sin Nombre is in the penthouse. North corner.

This is the very first time we see Ghost use the name Johnny. An important moment, because this is where everything starts rolling. Nicknames are a signifier of care. Soap isn't just another sergeant to Ghost anymore. He's no longer, Mactavish, Sergeant, Soap. He's more. He's Johnny.

Names have power. There's something to be said that by the act of naming something you bond with it— you make it yours. Nicknames are special to Ghost. And it's something we see hold true in mwii(23) as well. But that's for later.

Just let it sink in that it only took 5 days for Ghost to go from rolling his eyes and being done with Soap to giving the man a nickname. 5 days out of the 3 years we know have existed between them.

The next possible time we see Ghost use Johnny, it's in a heightened moment in the next mission "Dark Water". This event is non canon but supports my argument.*

If you stall in stopping the missile launch, Ghost will shout out Johnny to Soap. It's an adrenaline high moment and a critical point of life and death.

Now why does this matter ?

It matters because it proves that Ghost has only started using the nickname since "El Sin Nombre". There's a counter argument to be had that since Soap has known Ghost for so long, the nickname could have existed between them for x amount of time. Ghost could be upset at having Soap be his sergeant because he didn't want someone he cares for under his responsibility. Soap and Ghost have a prior relationship to mwii(22). What exactly happened between Apr '19 to Oct '22 is undefined.

But this is proven very unlikely because now we can tell that at this point of their relationship, Ghost only uses the name Johnny in moments of heightened emotion.

The two Johnnys we got in "El Sin Nombre" had Ghost using it the moment he sighted Soap alive. At the time, Ghost was unsure if Soap was still breathing. Seeing him near/on the roof was a moment of high stress/emotion.

What's another moment of high stress?

Jumping off a cliff in "Cartel Protection" just a couple days earlier.

If Ghost had already cared about Soap then, it's highly unlikely a Johnny wouldn't escape his lips at that moment.

Alejandro, Rudy, Ghost and Soap were on the run from the Mexican army. Pinned down and nowhere else to go but a free dive at least 50 m down off a random cliff and noone but Ale/Rudy to trust in (men they had just met prior that day). I don't see Ghost not shouting Johnny at that point. Tellingly, we see Ghost use the name Soap instead when yelling at the sergeant to jump.

I could be completely wrong about this, but personally, I don't see Ghost as able to stop himself from using nicknames.

As we find out through "Alone", Ghost is a massive hypocrite. There's much he tells Soap to do but doesn't actually follow himself. As a result there are three things to pay attention to when discerning his motivations: His nicknames, his stares and his actions.

This is actually seen in the pivotal mission "Alone" and later in "Prison Break".

It's the tonal and plot shift in the game. From then on their relationship isn't Ghost and random sergeant like in "Flashpoint" in 2019. It's not even Ghost and (the annoying sergeant) Soap, at the start of the game in "Kill or Capture".

They become SoapAndGhost against the world. Or rather, JohnnyAndGhost.

And even more rare: JohnnyAndSimon.

But I will split the post off here.

On to part 2.2 (the other half of mwii)—when I get there. The Alone segment is promising to be very long since it's the bulk of all Ghoap interactions. It will be awhile till I get there 😔.

+

Any questions, comments, arguments on the discussion, feel free to buzz me on it. I always did feel that having an opposite opinion strengthens your own arguments.

Can I call myself a Ghostsoap scholar now? I will try to answer any questions to my best ability.

#ghostsoap #cod mw3 #cod mwiii #john soap mactavish #simon ghost riley #soapghost #ghost x soap #simon riley #call of duty #soap x ghost #soap mactavish #cod mwii #cod mw2 #call of duty modern warfare #meta

[lurksunderthebed]

Ghoap Analysis/Meta (1?)

The Evolution of GhostSoap Redux

Continuing thoughts on how Ghost and Soap's relationship has changed over the course of mw(19), mwii(22) and mwiii(23)

Spread out amongst several posts. This will be long 😅

(Part 1)

BEWARE SPOILERS TO MWIII(23) !

I've had time to settle my thoughts on Ghostsoap in mwiii (23) and this will go more into depth of the re-contextualising of Ghost and Soap's relationship in mwii (22) from the verdansk mission: "Flashpoint".

Flashpoint is set 4 years to mwiii(23). The game places it as April 6, 2019. This is important to us because it sets a different potential first mission (meet cute lmao) between the two and thus changes the tone of their interactions in mwii (22)

So let's set up a timeline with the available dates. Thankfully, the game sets some very concrete dates for us. Not all missions are included.*

2019

Flashpoint - April 06, 2019

First canonical appearance of SAS Ghost and Soap

Ghost provides sniper cover for Soap

Price/Soap capture Makarov and transport him to a helo with Ghost and Shepherd

There's a failed interrogation by Ghost and Soap.

Makarov implies he has met Ghost before and thought him dead at an airport

2019 Mw(19)

Piccadilly - Oct 25, 2019

First canonical appearance of SAS Gaz

Gaz is attached to Met Counter Terrorist Police. This implies he has worked largely in his career in conjunction to the Police. It's unknown whether he met Soap or Ghost before.

First meet of Gaz and Price to combat terrorists in London

Old Comrades - Oct 31, 2019

Gaz meets Nikolai

Interrogation scene. Arguably strengthens Gaz and Price's relationship

Into the Furnace - Nov 03, 2019

Last mission, they kill general barkov

Credit Scene - Nov 03-04, 2019* (hypothetical)

Laswell and Price form task force 141

Price seconds Ghost, Soap, Gaz. This implies that Price has worked with Soap and Ghost on missions for x amount of years. It's Gaz who was the surprise recruit.

2020 Cod Warzone

Season 2 - Mar 2020

First appearance of 141 Ghost

Unknown amount of 141 stationed in Verdansk. Ghost asks for backup.

Season 3 - Apr 2020

Armistice dissolved

Price and Gaz show up to help Ghost

Implied- unknown amount of 141 to Verdansk (possible meeting of Soap and Ghost)

Season ? - Dec 2020

Price kills Zakaev

First appearance (via call) of 141 Soap asking for backup in Verdansk

Price, Ghost, Gaz, Farah etc backup Soap who is somewhere else in Verdansk getting pinned down by enemies

2022 Mwii(22)

Strike - July 15, 2022

Ghost calls an airstrike on Ghorbrani with the aid of Shadow Company

Hindsight - Aug 12, 2022

Shepherd/Shadow Company loses American missiles to terroists

Kill or Capture - Oct 28, 2022

Ghost gets assigned Soap as his sergeant for Al Mazhrah mission to kill or capture Hassan

They find American missiles instead

Cartel Protection - Oct 30, 2022

Ghost/Soap meet Ale/Rudy in Las Almas

They fight the Mexican army under control of the cartels

RV with Graves/Shadow Comp.

El Sin Nombre - Nov 01, 2022

Soap infils cartel mansion

Valeria is revealed as El Sin Nombre

They take her into custody

Dark Water - Nov 02, 2022

Boat/oil rig mission with Shadow company

Missile launch averted by Ghost, Soap and Graves

Alone - Nov 03, 2022

Graves and Shepherd betray 141/mexi bros

Ghost and Soap get out of Las Almas

RV at ale's hideout with Rudy

Prison Break - Nov 03, 2022

Ghost, Soap, Rudy break out ale from prison

Meet up with Price/Gaz

Ghost Team - Nov 03, 2022

141 with mexi bros take back mexi bros base

Soap and Rudy "kill" Graves

Countdown - Nov 04, 2022

Stop missile launch in Chicago

Ghost and Soap kill Hassan

2023 Mwiii (23)

Operation 627 - Oct 13, 2023

Makarov breaks out of prison

Reactor - Nov 10, 2023

141 find out that Makarov escaped

141 assaults konni base

Price finds chemical weapons (almost died)

Payload - Nov 11, 2023

141 split up to stop missile launch of chemical weapons

They fail to stop 2 missiles to Russia

Oligarch - Nov 12, 2023

Ghost/Soap island mission to find Makarov's financier

Interrogation of Milena for Makarov's location

Frozen Tundra - Nov 14, 2023

141 ambush konni convoy

Find Shepherd was Makarov's prisoner

Interrogate him on Makarov's location

Gora Dam - Nov 16, 2023

Ghost/Soap split up to stop chemical weapons in Verdansk

Trojan Horse - Nov 21, 2023

141 split up in London tunnels to stop Makarov from using chemical weapons in subway system

So now that's done. I've mostly ignored Farah and Alex and focused on Price, Ghost, Gaz, Soap and Nikolai as it pertains to relationships within the core group of Price/Ghost/Gaz/Soap.

What can we make of this ?

Well, a couple things.

We can now say that from 2019 to the events of "Kill or Capture" in 2022, Ghost and Soap have most likely worked together on missions before. The timeline shows that they at least had to have met in Dec 2020 in Verdansk as Soap had called for backup to Price and group.

That makes it actually at least 3 years of knowledge of each other prior to mwii(22). So a total of 4 years + potentially at the start of mwiii(23).

It also shows us how quickly their relationship changed from the Alone mission in '22 despite the 3 years of prior knowledge they had since '19.

Let it be said that it took 1 week, ONLY 7 DAYS!! to change Ghost and Soap's relationship. 7 days out of a total at least 3 years total.

Ghost started at not even bothering to name Soap in 2019, to presumably basic Soap/Mactavish/sergeant for the next 3 years.

Cut to the events in mwii(22). Lets say beginning at "Kill or Capture" and finishing at "Alone" and suddenly Ghost ends up having made up his own personal nickname that no one else can use for Soap in just those 7 days.

I posit that this was in part due to "Kill or Capture" in '22 being the first mission that Soap has directly worked under Ghost's command.

This is all hypotheticals and guesswork so take it as you may.

Assuming Ghost was mainly a solo mission sort of guy, let's also assume he mostly helped as sniper overwatch if he ever had team missions (like in Flashpoint). Most 141 missions have him taking that position as well, so it's safe to say he is support most of the time.

Given that assumption, it's also likely that Soap and Ghost had to have interacted mainly on comms and any physical meeting would be restricted to transport via heli or otherwise.

It's possible Soap and Ghost have worked together on a more physical basis (aka Ghost leading Soap on a squad), but given how much Ghost seemed to be testing Soap in "Kill or Capture" I find that somewhat unlikely.

In 2019 we see how brusque Ghost is with Soap. It's very likely that Ghost was largely monosyllabic with Soap pre or post missions to Flashpoint.

Considering Soap's propensity to chatter in 2022 and 2023, it's also very likely Soap annoyed the hell out of Ghost on comms. Lol.

This could explain why Ghost was so dismissive of having Soap as his sergeant in "Kill or Capture", despite working together 3 years ago.

I, and arguably most of fandom had theorised that "Kill or Capture" was the first mission that Soap and Ghost ever had together. And we weren't quite right, but we weren't completely wrong either.

With Flashpoint, it's obvious now that was not quite true. It even suggests in it that Ghost and Soap had worked together prior to even that, as there was no formal introduction between the two.

This dramatically changes how Ghost's dialogue and Soap's to a lesser degree can be read in mwii(22) and implies much much more if you consider how they interact with each other in '23.

So why does it matter when Ghost and Soap's relationship started?

With mwiii(23) we can now definitively tell when Ghost and Soap's relationship changed. We now have a rough basis of a timeline and we can track down the differences between '19 -'22 and then '22- '23. Its important because we can see how their relationship deepens and how it changed within a span of 3 years, 7 compelling days and 1 heartwrenching year later.

For all that mwiii(23) was lax with explicit Ghostsoap moments, it's rich in how much context we gain to their relationship. We see how Ghost changes and how his relationships differ between 141. It's an interesting and compelling look at both Ghost and Soap's characters.

In this discussion I separate this analysis into 3 parts. Part 2 will cover the implications of "Flashpoint" on mwii (22), with discussion line by line. Part 3 will most likely go over comparisons a year makes from the events in '22 to '23. (This might be subject to change as I get further into the analysis)

Onto Part 2.

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#ghostsoap #cod mw3 #cod mwiii #john soap mactavish #simon ghost riley #soapghost #ghost x soap #simon riley #call of duty #meta #analysis #soap x ghost #soap mactavish #soap cod #mw3 spoilers #cod mwii #call of duty modern warfare

[lurksunderthebed]

I might have another big Ghostsoap discussion/analysis that digs deeper into their relationship throughout the entire reboot series. And by deep, I mean it's gonna be several posts long and span multiple games. Would anyone be interested in that, if I did?

Genuine question. I'll prob end up doing it anyway lol. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

#ghostsoap #cod mw3 #cod mwiii #john soap mactavish #simon ghost riley #simon riley #soapghost #ghost x soap #call of duty #soap x ghost #soap mactavish