showtoonzfan

[showtoonzfan]

We finally get Verosika back after 84 years and yet the main focus is how badly Blitz hurt Stolas fuck OFFF.

#vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #helluva critical

[showtoonzfan]

Yeah, like him singing a Blitz diss track with Verosika and Stolas saying “do you have any remorse for those around you”? to Blitz really takes the cake, that as well as them getting a duet where Stolas is all lovey dovey and Blitz is now the horny bastard who just wants to fuck despite it being the other way around in season 1. It was expected but Viv is definitely set on only Blitz being in the wrong and getting trashed for it. The victim blaming is insane. No thank you, you can keep the show lol.

If I wasn’t done with the show already, I think seeing stolas in that ugly ass baby jumper singing in front of a sign that says “Blitzo sucks” next to Verosika, implying a toxic consensual relationship and sexual coercion are exactly the same, would have made me stop there. Looks absolutely dreadful.

#reblog #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva critical

[showtoonzfan]

I honestly should have known Morgana wrote the Millie and Sallie short cause when I was a minute in I was wondering where all the needlessly forced and shoved in curse words were.

#lol #like this short still had f bombs in it but certainty not like how Viv writes #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva critical

[showtoonzfan]

So turns out Morgana wrote this episode, Sallie May’s VA. My opinions still stand however, the short just would have had more impact if we knew these characters beforehand more, and that Viv’s fault.

I know I said I’d stop watching Helluva, but since this is a five minute short and not an episode, I decided to watch it, especially since it revolves around Millie and Sallie. However I don’t have much to say, this short is honestly a nothing burger, it revolves around Sallie coming to the pride ring to visit Millie for an evening out, but the only scene that matters is the last minute because the majority is just a montage of Sallie and Millie going around town and enjoying themselves.

The major thing is the fact that Millie is excited to see Sally and has a fun time with her. What happened to that “sibling rivalry” huh Viv? You know, the one that you argued gave Millie depth? And by the way, this short does nothing for Sallie and Millie as characters. Millie is the same bubbly and nice yet bloodthirsty character she always is. Meanwhile Sallie was hyped up for so long and yet she’s kinda just….there. She doesn’t really have any interesting or defining characteristics, she really is a brownie point cardboard cutout with little personality, like I’m sorry but it’s funny how we finally get content revolving around two females and it’s very empty, though I don’t know what I expected.

Sallie has this out of nowhere forced emotional moment where she shares she’s upset that Millie left her home town. I guess this could have been interesting had it been built up before, but this is writer Vivziepop we’re talking about, nothing is built up and everything comes out of nowhere. Part of it doesn’t help because this is the first time we’re getting to know Sallie as a character and yet you’ve already retconned her relationship with Millie. In the end it doesn’t matter, Millie says that she’ll try to visit her family more and that Sally can visit too whenever she wants, then it ends with them watching a show. This did nothing for Millie’s character, her relationship with her family, or Sallie’s character, (if you can call her one) and I find it funny that the relationship between Mille and her sister isn’t even in an episode, they don’t affect the main story or plot at all that a five minute short was enough, it’s just telling lol. Anyways short wasn’t god awful or bad just a nothing burger, something Viv’s writing has been for some time now.

#reblog #helluva critical

[showtoonzfan]

I know I said I’d stop watching Helluva, but since this is a five minute short and not an episode, I decided to watch it, especially since it revolves around Millie and Sallie. However I don’t have much to say, this short is honestly a nothing burger, it revolves around Sallie coming to the pride ring to visit Millie for an evening out, but the only scene that matters is the last minute because the majority is just a montage of Sallie and Millie going around town and enjoying themselves.

The major thing is the fact that Millie is excited to see Sally and has a fun time with her. What happened to that “sibling rivalry” huh Viv? You know, the one that you argued gave Millie depth? And by the way, this short does nothing for Sallie and Millie as characters. Millie is the same bubbly and nice yet bloodthirsty character she always is. Meanwhile Sallie was hyped up for so long and yet she’s kinda just….there. She doesn’t really have any interesting or defining characteristics, she really is a brownie point cardboard cutout with little personality, like I’m sorry but it’s funny how we finally get content revolving around two females and it’s very empty, though I don’t know what I expected.

Sallie has this out of nowhere forced emotional moment where she shares she’s upset that Millie left her home town. I guess this could have been interesting had it been built up before, but this is writer Vivziepop we’re talking about, nothing is built up and everything comes out of nowhere. Part of it doesn’t help because this is the first time we’re getting to know Sallie as a character and yet you’ve already retconned her relationship with Millie. In the end it doesn’t matter, Millie says that she’ll try to visit her family more and that Sally can visit too whenever she wants, then it ends with them watching a show. This did nothing for Millie’s character, her relationship with her family, or Sallie’s character, (if you can call her one) and I find it funny that the relationship between Mille and her sister isn’t even in an episode, they don’t affect the main story or plot at all that a five minute short was enough, it’s just telling lol. Anyways short wasn’t god awful or bad just a nothing burger, something Viv’s writing has been for some time now.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva critical #anti vivziepop #helluva boss critique

[showtoonzfan]

Viv was included in a podcast talking about Bojack and Hazbin ect, dropping this in case anyone wants to cover it lol.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism #helluva critical #anti vivziepop #hazbin hotel critical #Youtube

[showtoonzfan]

Hazbin fans really hated this redesign

https://twitter.com/Sweet_Discordia/status/1780937332063117681

They even realized their "criticisms" werent working so they started accusing the artist of harassment

This is a harmless cute design, they all have their heads up their asses. Hazbin stans only like designs that Viv touched, and designs that fit their standard of what an “attractive” or “cute” character looks like. Mainly to me it’s definitely also racism.

#reply #ask #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel critical

[showtoonzfan]

I think people need to realize that a redesign of a character doesn’t always need to be based off of the creators vision, at least in my opinion. You should be allowed to make your own interpretation without getting harassed. Like the amount of Hazbin fans attacking artists for redesigning the characters by pulling the “this is wrong because it’s not like Viv’s vision”- is ridiculous because most of the time, the art is subjective depending on what the artist wants, unless they deliberately want to stick to Viv’s ideas. However, rewriting…or “reimagining” as some call it is also fine. Again, there’s no harm in redesigns and I laugh every time Viv and her fanbase act like it’s a personal attack on her. It’s also funny that her fans are so stuck on keeping to what Viv imagined for the character, even tho Viv herself struggles with visually representing who and what her characters are in the designs themselves. Like..yeah…Mimzy definitely looks like she’s based off of a chicken and Beelzebub is a circus animal tamer…sure lol.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva boss critical #hazbin hotel critical #anti vivziepop #Hazbin critical #Hazbin

[showtoonzfan]

When people criticize how Vivziepop poorly handles dark topics such as abuse and rape, her fans immediately claim you’re a “puritan” who’s against the exploration of dark topics. Nah, I’m against her lying and claiming she’s going to handle abuse and rape in a “serious, respectful” manner, only to sexualize it or make it into a joke, depending on the character it’s happening to.

Vivziepop deserves to be criticized for awfully handling dark topics, especially since she’s only doubling down on her lies about properly handling them. 

#reblog #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #spindlehorse critical

[showtoonzfan]

Vivziepop is unable to figure out how to make her characters interesting on their own, which is why she attaches them to each other because she doesn’t know what else to do with them. She has characters who depend on one another, basing their personalities and story arcs around their relationships. 

This is why characters like Husk, Lute, Vaggie, Millie, and Blitzo have plotlines revolving around their relationships with little attention devoted solely to them and no development because Vivziepop doesn’t have a clue how to give them any and isn't trying to.

Characters have to be strong enough to stand on their own and shouldn’t have to rely on another character to be relevant to the story and fascinating.

#reblog #agreed #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism #helluva critical

[showtoonzfan]

Just want to preface this by saying i love ur analysis sm- u put my exact thoughts into words when i cant verbalise whats wrong with a particular writing decision 🥲🥲

Anyway, smth ive noticed is how... little time vivzie actually spends on writing or characterizing or fleshing out her characters.

Which has to be the weirdest thing so far bc every writer and artist ive met agree that its the best part of making an oc! Its so fun to think of backstories and tie that into their current personality and generally just figuring out random details to get to know your characters!

Like, my ocs are my best friends, i know everything abt them from their trauma and childhoods, to their favourite food and music.

But time and time again she proves that her characters are at best acquaintances... the fandom fleshes out the characters so well and with so much love and care and thought that vivzie herself cant do and its just sad.

Not even mentioning the hundreds of retcons and how characters will just change personality randomly or act out of character which results in the work feeling like a fanfic of itself. (Ironic considering some fanfics have better and more consistent characterisation)

It feels like shes making it up as she goes, instead of having an actual plan. Just shoving random ideas she likes or picks up from the much more creative fandom into the 2 shows without actually stopping and thinking abt the consequences or implications.

Theres so many decisions shes made that irk me so bad... the ideas individually have potential but they either dont fit the show or have to make huge retcons and result in the plot not making any sense.

Also, ngl but she has the worst case of tell dont show ive ever seen my god 😭😭 like... you realise you have to show things instead of just fucking singing it or having a character say it??? Or is that another thing that the fandom has to do so they can convince themselves that the show has good characters??

Atp idk how to salvage the show... i keep finding more and more plotholes and unless i literally turn my brain off and only focus on haha funny dick joke or pwetty colors, these questions keep popping into my head making it a painful unenjoyable experience.

Again, if the fandom has to justify your bad nonsensical hypocritical worldbuilding then you failed. Massively.

Anyway im very sleepy rn just wanted to rant a bit bc im a writer and artist myself and it pisses me off how someone gets their show on the air and still doesnt care abt putting in effort into their plot or characters beyond aesthetics and random ideas that dont go well together...

You’re speaking facts! And it’s honestly like..kinda funny too that people who have their own OC’s can flesh them out and deep dive into their arcs/backstories ect, yet a professional showrunner who’s had these characters for YEARS can’t even give the majority of her characters flaws or quirks, or even consistency, same goes for Helluva Boss.

Viv is a really good example at letting inspired writers know what not to do when making a story and characters so at least they have that lol.

#reply #ask #all facts btw heavily agree #thanks for ranting to me! #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel critical #anti vivziepop #Hazbin critical

[showtoonzfan]

Were there any moments of Husk and Niffty interacting in the show? (I refuse to watch it.)

One of my hopes was Husk and Niffty having a relationship similar to Brian and Stewie from Family Guy.

Nah they had like…two small interacts and that was it. Husk at one point talks about how everyone goes to him to complain, and regarding Nifty he says “you don’t even want to know”- and like…wish we saw that interaction on screen. There’s also a small part where she gets high and Angel gives her to Husk to play with, but like…we don’t know anything about their relationship really. Which really is a bummer because Husk and Nifty had the least screen time in the pilot so everyone was eager to see the actual show, but the show barley fleshes then out, mainly Nifty who has NOTHING going on for her outside of being a creepy neat freak who likes bad boys. She’s the most empty character in the entire show regarding depth.

#reply #ask #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #anti vivziepop #Hazbin critical

[showtoonzfan]

Thoughts on Husk?

I found Husk okay in the pilot. He didn’t have much to him so I wasn’t really interested, but I did hope to see what the show had planned for him. And Viv basically does what she always does and just rushed everything once the show aired. In episode 1-3 he was fine but once episode 4 hit he’s suddenly soft and caring from there onward, like trusting Angel enough to comfort him (which makes zero sense within the timeline considering he just met this guy a fucking week ago) or being worried about Alastor for some reason. I don’t mind the idea of Husk being a softie or the “wise old mentor” character, cause I do love the concept of someone who’s fucked up so much in life that they now have advice to give, but again his stuff is just rushed. There is no reason why he should care about characters like Angel, Pen, or the hotel.

Same with Angel, Husk was clearly set up to be a stubborn asshole. He’s old and grumpy and wasn’t interested at all in the hotel or it’s people. Now almost instantly he’s trusting of the people around him and helpful at times. He should have been a slow burn, actually fucking SHOW his arc on screen of learning to listen to people or realizing his mistakes, but Viv wanted to do most character arcs off screen, heck…we don’t even get any scenes of Charlie trying to help him…you know, something that was the main premise of the show. Not only that but the only character we see him grow a bond with on screen is Angel and I don’t like that because it only existed just to set them up as a couple and get the shipping fuel going, cause Viv cares more about shipping rather than actually developing the characters themselves.

Him revealing how he used to be an overlord but was in over his head and gambled his soul away was also something that could have been it’s own episode, like for some reason Viv really love’s immediately telling us her character’s backstories and flat out saying the flaws her characters have (cough, Helluva Boss.) It’s such a bummer man cause Husk could have been really good but he’s honestly just…there now, most of the potential he had is out the window cause it’s the clear the only arc Viv has planned for Husk is for him to get with Angel, and then probably be attached to him so yay.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #hazbin criticism #Hazbin critical #reply #ask

[showtoonzfan]

Bro your not black ya'll folks need to stop telling black people what there supposed to be offended by if we have a problem with something we don't need you folks to defend us let us speak up and do it ourself it honestly Annoying when other people who are not black or any other people of color gets offended for us do we sometimes Appreciate it yes we do but we don't need you people to do it all the time please let us do it ourselves yall Seriously make it seem like we can't speak up if we have a problem we'll do it ourselves okay have a good day.

1. I’m mixed creole

2. If this has something to do with how Viv treats her POC characters and the discourse behind that, I’m not telling people how to feel. That’s just me giving an opinion and inserting my two cents. Same for Viv’s controversy on SA victims. I’m not going to tell y’all how to feel, nor am I going to talk over people. You guys all have brains and can think for yourselves.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel critical #reply #ask

[showtoonzfan]

I never got why Lily was so anti filler, it’s baffling to me. Because yes, as a writer you need to know how to properly balance your filler and serialized episodes and most shows have an issue with that, but that doesn’t mean filler shouldn’t exist at all. I feel like she confuses “fluff” with filler honestly. Fluff is more pointless nonsense, but filler itself has a purpose, as you said to develop characters and it serves as a great opportunity for the audience to get to know them. It’s so ironic cause that’s what Hazbin desperately needed, filler and not pointless fluff, like how they kept introducing more characters and plot points that end up going nowhere. We needed more time with these characters, time to get to know them so we can learn to care about them. And it is funny how she states you don’t need good pacing, yet called out SU for its pacing issues, as well as all the other things.

Ok so I watched Lily Orchard's review on Hazbin Hotel and it was extremely painful to get through

Ok, so I don't agree with SaberSpark at all with Hazbin Hotel, but at least he knows when a story has holes in it. Lily Orchard thinks Hazbin Hotel is perfect, even though I think it's horribly written garbage with a very underdeveloped nonsensical premise on arrival. However, this is Lily Orchard, so Hazbin Hotel just mature enough that she doesn't have to think too hard about the subtext because Hazbin Hotel is already on the nose and not subtle at all, while also enjoying all the swears and fucked up shit in there. It's interesting how backwards she is with her criticism.

She's the type of person that would enjoy fast paced garbage like Hazbin Hotel, while completely shit on good shows like SU and miss the point. She hates filler and character development; she's never read/watch dystopian, alien, sci-fi movies/shows ever and I can tell because she loses her mind over the Diamonds having fascist/colonizer tendencies even though they are aliens and fascism and colonization are common themes that crossover with aliens/scifi, because they're fucking aliens. if she can't handle the Diamonds being invaders, she would absolutely hate Invader Zim, Star Wars, Prometheus, the Alien trilogy, AVP, Interstellar, Black Mirror, 1984, Necromancer, The HandMaids Tale, Independence Day, War of the Worlds. Half of these have some themes of fascism or colonization. Alien invasions are an attempt at colonization.

Oh it gets better.

So pushing through the irrelevant rambling about genocide and her bitchfest about demons being gay and in hell, which sidenote; Christians are notorious for being homophobic and the common line thrown at gay people is "you will burn in hell!" Viv throwing gay people in hell only emphasizes how shitty Heaven is and Lute is openly homophobic towards Angel and Vaggie. I don't like that Viv is going with Heaven is all evil approach, but Heaven has to be evil and homophobic Lily to show that Heaven is evil. That is the fucking point.

"Charlie seems to learn that you can't force redemption on someone." The not so subtle jab at Steven Universe there I see, except hat Steven WASN'T forcing redemption on anyone at all. Charlie on the other hand is desperately trying to get demons in the building the entire time because there's 6 months left, which was because Charlie was desperately trying to tell to Adam how redemption could work and she was ignored by Adam entirely and she put gasoline on the already burning fire. She IS forcing redemption.

So Vaggie having a personality is also a bad thing apparently to Lily Orchard and she's mad that people complained about the dry ass relationship between them, because there isn't any filler episodes to flesh their entire character dynamic out. Filler episodes are Lily Orchard's weakness because she hates character development lmfao.

Lily Orchard's take on Angel Dust is also stupid as fuck. It's bad apparently when Lapis Luzli and Jasper have a toxic relationship, but it's 100% perfect depiction of abuse with Angel Dust and Valentino. Fuck off Lily. You're not consistent with your criticisms at all. While Angel Dusts abuse is gut wrenching to watch, knowing the background context, ruins the scenes completely. Also, it's rushed, lacks subtly and it 360's way too fucking fast.

Also so the rest of the her video is about how you don't need to develop characters and good pacing. Except that you do need to develop characters and good pacing to have character arcs make sense. It doesn't have to be massive lore dumps, but the lore is often the reason why the story takes place in the first place. You also need fillers in between and time for serious scenes like Val abusing Angel Dust to set in. Also Lily, you write fanfictions and you've never consumed anything with depth besides Kingdom Hearts which apparently has shit tons of lore in it and MLP, which also has shit tons of lore in it. That's why you like them so much, beside there's lore in there. You're telling me that there shouldn't be lore at all because reasons, but you also ramble mid review about how super cool and deep Kingdom Hearts is? Literally shut the fuck up lmfao.

#also Yeesh yeah she fumbled the bag once again like I knew her review was ganna be ass lol #she sucks #reblog #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel critical

[showtoonzfan]

Someone needs to say it: The "Heaven is actually bad" plot line that Hazbin is based around is useless when you spend more then 2 minutes thinking about Vivzie's Hell and her characters.

Besides it being much too early for this idea, the revelation that Heaven or at least the beings running it aren't good people has little to no impact when the people who are being harmed by this are all horrible people. Stay with me here. None of these people are people who were unfairly brought into hell and we are never ever introduced to someone who was either. Why should we care that Heaven is "evil" and blocking redemption when all the sinners in hell we see are the worst of the worst who would have never gotten in even if it was fair.

For the "Heaven is bad" plot line to actually work, you need people who were just one sin away from Heaven, who would've gotten into Heaven if circumstance hadn't forced them down a path that stole it from them. You need characters who aren't comedic villains but land in the middle of morally grey. Those who deserved to be in Heaven but because Heaven refused to consider their circumstances, they were tossed to burn with people much worse than them. Those are the people who should be your main cast cause those are the people who would actually be impacted by Heaven being bad/ Heaven lying.

Angel dust, for all his trauma, was still part of the mafia and likely had killed people before (showing to almost take joy in it). Husk became an overlord and gambled souls, so he had to have had blood on his hands before hell. Alastor is a serial killer, and the list goes on and on. Sure, these characters are (somewhat) interesting, but they don't make for good characters to have when the key plot line is that Heaven is a scam. Even if that fact is true, none of them were ever going to get there in the first place and this is something we also se in every single background sinner shown in Hell too. They were never close to getting there, so why would they or we care that Heaven is bad when all sinners are shown to be horrific people who are at best in the dark grey area of morality.

If you look at it from the "angel's are unfairly killing sinners" route, it still doesn't work. If the angels are killing them, what makes it different then the sinner on sinner violence that hell is full off? Why is them dying by angels this bad thing when they are just as likely if not 10x times more likely to get knifed in the back by other sinners in hell the other 364 days, especially when everyone here apparently is just as horrible as the next person. You cannot condemn the angels for killing demons and then make a joke of out sinners killing each other and never show sinners who doesn't want to kill people. Life either matters or it doesn't and when the main cast doesn't even show a care for life (outside of Charlie's who's entire flaw is her naivety), why should the audience.

On top of that, Vivzie's whole overpopulation aspect and the Heaven plot line would connect better if she actually had people like those I mentioned above, people who stole to survive but got tossed out cause stealing is technically wrong, people who killed another to protect someone else but were still sent to hell because even though they saved that person's life that person wasn't supposed to be saved, people who passively engaged in sins but never really did anything harmful under them. This would add into how Hell is so overpopulated and highlight why its so important that Heaven is evil/ why Charlie's plan isn't just a naive pathetic fever dream.

In the end, Vivzie should have never made Heaven the central plot of this show nor tried to assign this blatant good vs evil to that conflict. Neither her characters nor her writing choices are able to respond to this conflict in a way that will end or even tell the story in a satisfactory manner.

#reblog #hazbin hotel critical #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism

[showtoonzfan]

Agreed. Also justice for Angel Dust, he deserves to have his trauma taken seriously without him being treated as a “haha sex: laugh” character at the same time, or without his r@pist being sexualized and used for fetish material.

Justice for these characters.

Justice for Sir Pentious, he deserved to be more than a funny gang r@pe joke and comedic death.

Justice for Vaggie, she deserves a name that isn’t tied to the female genitalia and should be more than an angry latino stereotype.

Justice for Millie, she deserves more character outside of being Moxxie's wife.

Justice for Stella, she was robbed of any depth she had to make Stolas seem innocent.

Justice for Blitz, he should cut contact with Stolas and be in a healthy relationship instead.

Justice for Octavia, she deserves an actual good father figure.

#reply #reblog #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism #anti hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critical