#THE ULTIMATE GASTER THEORY | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

deltaruminations · 1 year

Text

Some Thoughts on Memoryhead That Were Supposed To Be Mostly Related to Gaster Knight But Then I Just Got Really Deep Into Talking About Memoryhead (AKA Sad Sack Scientists Squad Theory)

(Don't worry, Alphys won't be ignored in this.)

(Also the SSSS Theory thing is a joke please dont take the "theory" thing too seriously LOL)

In my recent slapdash summary of the possible mechanisms/indications of Gaster Knight Theory (GKT), I mentioned that information from Undertale's Memoryhead could be seen as contributing to two points:

Gaster has spent time in Dark Worlds in the past (according to GKT, ones he created), and likely the ones we've seen so far in the game (not Kris's).

Gaster's desire for a "NEW FUTURE" is motivated at least in part by feelings of regret and possibly guilt.

Here's a little bit of my reasoning for that. just kidding here's way more reasoning than you could have possibly ever wanted

(This is to a certain degree a very rough draft of a section of a bigger analysis. It involves opinionated readings of ambiguous information and I don't want to set the expectation that it's solid evidence of anything, but I think it's VERY, VERY INTERESTING possibly a worthwhile read for anyone who likes in-depth emotional/thematic analysis and/or obsessive overthinking of small details lmao)

A preliminary note on Alphys

Before Deltarune chapter 1 released, bringing with it further (possible) contextualization of some of the True Lab's outstanding mysteries, it was commonly thought that Memoryhead was a manifestation of Alphys's shame and regret over the DETERMINATION experiments.

I want to take a moment here to acknowledge that Alphys and her story are often overlooked and treated with contempt by much of the fanbase, and there's historically a tiring trend of Alphys revisionism, in which indications of her aptitude and achievement as a scientist or depth as a character are arbitrarily attributed instead to one skeleton man or another.

To be entirely clear: the True Lab sequence is without a doubt Alphys's story. While it may serve secondary purposes in offering lore and fleshing out Undertale's broader narrative, the primary purpose of this sequence is to contextualize Alphys's depression and feelings of worthlessness, as well as to demonstrate the importance of her scientific work and her capacity for compassion, responsibility, and bravery. The overwhelming majority of what we experience there is unquestionably meant to illustrate how Alphys's actions resulted in pain for others, and the grief she feels as a result.

(If anyone's interested in an in-depth reading of her character, Dorked made a great video on the topic.)

That said, I'm not proposing this analysis arbitrarily. While Memoryhead as a thematic symbol does contribute to and reinforce our understanding of Alphys in significant ways, there was always room for reasonable doubt as to whether Memoryhead as an in-universe phenomenon originated with her or was meant to describe only her. With the new context of Deltarune, I think we can identify further possibilities for Memoryhead as a component of that game's story as well as Undertale's. Wherever appropriate, I'll discuss its connections to Alphys Undertale as well as potential relevance to Gaster Deltarune. I believe that understanding her story may help to inform our understanding of his as well.

---

Memoryhead's nature

Memoryhead seems to be distinct from the other True Lab entities in several ways:

It appears in a group of three, rather than as one individual.

It isn’t an obvious amalgamation of identifiable monsters (or, in Endogeny's case, category of monsters) from Undertale. It doesn't comprise recognizable monster components in its sprite, attack patterns, or ACT options.

It doesn't appear in the epilogue.

It doesn't have a grave in Deltarune's cemetery alongside the other Amalgamates encountered.

(Side note: I just realized I totally forgot about Reaper Bird, who, despite having identifiable monster components, is pretty weird in their own right. They don't appear in the epilogue or cemetery, and the whole thing about Everyman is its own mystery that I can't even begin to guess at currently.)

Because Memoryhead is the first encounter in the True Lab, players are likely to take these differences for granted, as they don't know yet to expect anything else. With hindsight, however, this information seems to indicate that Memoryhead manifested via a different mechanism than DT injection.

I don't want to get too deep into guessing at the mechanisms underlying its existence. There's not a whole lot to go off of right now. My best guess based on context clues is that it's a byproduct of DT extraction, rather than injection -- it occurred when Alphys and/or Gaster extracted their own DT. However, that brings up a lot of further questions (ex. who made the blueprints/machine? Was Gaster "erased" from existence/memory in the Undertale universe, or did he simply disappear one day and no one brings him up anymore?), and I don't know if we're (read: I'm) prepared to answer them yet.

For our purposes right now, I think we just need to take for granted that Memoryheads manifested out of Alphys or Gaster somehow, reflect bad memories held by one or both of them, and keep moving.

(Kind of silly, but another aside: the Amalgamates in Undertale seem to be a direct evolution of an idea found in Toby Fox's first video game project, the Halloween Hack -- a ROM hack of Earthbound. As many others have noted, Deltarune seems to be in many ways a re-examination of ideas & themes first explored in the Halloween Hack. I'm not sure if that actually means anything in this particular discussion, but it's among the reasons why I went specifically for a ROM hacking metaphor and not a general programming or game development one and also i just think it’s cool.)

---

Memoryhead encounter

Attack pattern

Memoryhead has one bullet type and pattern (depicted above). This bullet is (to my knowledge) unique to it.

There are a number of things about this attack pattern that, when taken together, could be considered reflective of Gaster, specifically:

It's been noted many times by fans that the "face" sprite used in the bullets strongly recalls the eyes and smile of spr_mysteryman.

They are sometimes placed outside the visible bounds of the bullet box, existing beyond what's expected to be the intended plane.

Because of the timing of the bullets' placements & transformations, several identical instances of the face appear simultaneously across the box, yet no two concurrently-appearing faces are ever in the exact same state at the same time.

When attacked, Memoryhead actually becomes stronger, gaining HP far beyond the maximum.

For an emotional analysis: the rapid and randomized placement of the bullets, as well as the faces' erratic writhing motions, evoke unpredictability and unknowable intention. The crude simplicity of the faces abstracts away relatable features, leaving only the eerie, jittering smiles to suggest that they either delight in attempting to harm the Player, or that they're so far removed from "humanity" as to lack recognizable emotion or intent.

For perspective, we could compare this against Everyman -- while its sprite is also abstract, simple, and a little unsettling, with a featureless, unemotional face, its round, bipedal form and expressive movements inspire a certain amount of sympathy and even pity.

I also find it interesting that the Memoryheads dissolve away just before their attacks and then reconstitute just after. To me, this lends the impression that they are either becoming the bullets in some way, or hiding from them. Again, this is ambiguous. We could take it a few different ways.

It might seem bizarre to discuss the characterization of a magical bullet that presumably has no inherent consciousness, personality, or agency. However, I believe the choices in emotional storytelling here (as with all sources of Gaster Lore in Undertale) are in conversation with Deltarune's choices for him, especially in his direct "appearances," and how we as previous Undertale Players look at & interpret that information.

ACTs/Dialogue

Memoryhead is fundamentally connected to phones, as well as the concept of "connection" in general. Before the CELL act is used, it plays a dialtone and offers only visual noise in its speech bubble, as though it's calling and waiting for someone to pick up. After that point, it offers some peculiar dialogue:

Notably, it can only be spared by picking up the phone (allowing them to entreat the Player) and then refusing its advances. Accepting them results (IIRC) in an instant game over.

It's obvious how Alphys is reflected in an entity themed around connection, that can only communicate by phone -- phones are used throughout the game as a device (GET IT????) to explore facets of her anxiety, anxiety that both led her to make regrettable choices and was further exacerbated by the effects of those choices, and prevented her from seeking help when she needed it.

Gaster's connection to phones is less concrete. There may be some visual indicators in the battle sprite, which I'll get to in a bit.

I also think the dialogue here could be very telling of something that doesn't explicitly indicate either of them -- but if we hold that it might be descriptive of Gaster, then it could be seen as an indication that he's involved in the corruption and/or betrayal of the Dark World secret bosses.

At face value, Memoryheads' dialogue seems to simply be entreating Frisk to join them, the Memoryheads, among their legion of constituent memories. Allow them to hurt you, so your bad memory of that pain can join them.

While there's value in that interpretation, I also think that having the Memoryheads appear in a group (as I said, this is unique among True Lab entities) is intended in part to obscure an alternative reading: the Memoryheads' dialogue actually reflects the contents of its memories -- of its source's painful experiences.

From that perspective, we learn that whoever spawned the Memoryhead may be haunted by some form of corrupted connection. They were, perhaps, drawn into some kind of movement or group and now regret their participation, and/or they themselves recruited others into such a group (could we consider shadow crystal holders such a group?), depending on whether you see the dialogue as being their words or someone else's.

The fact that refusal causes the Memoryheads to lose interest could suggest a few different things, but among them is the idea that the entreating party was looking for easy targets. Simply asserting "no" may have been enough to cause them to lose interest and move on. The memory holder may regret, among other things, that they said yes to something, or that someone else said yes to them.

Another very specific sub-detail of ACTs I think is worth discussing is the Bad Memory (described as a piece of Memoryhead itself) that's placed in a Player's inventory upon using the ITEM option.

The Part Where I Ramble For Several Paragraphs About Bad Memory

A seemingly obtuse detail of the Bad Memory is that consuming it in most circumstances will result in 1 point of damage -- but consuming it when HP is at 3 or lower results in a full heal. Mechanically, this makes it a useful last-ditch healing item for late game battles, but narratively? It's definitely a strange choice -- in theory (and acknowledging that most Players never do this in practice), consuming Bad Memories over and over again slowly depletes our energy, but once we approach maximum vulnerability, one more Bad Memory will unexpectedly make us strong again. I think we could say something there about healing through the long, painful process of confrontation, and also about the risks and inefficacy of stewing endlessly in regret.

The Bad Memory cannot be dropped, as it always "comes back." However, it can be put in the Dimensional Box for storage, sold at the Tem shop (the only shop that will purchase items), or consumed.

From an emotional storytelling perspective, this could be taken to suggest that the memories comprising Memoryhead can only be dealt with through compartmentalization, externalization (i.e. "sharing" it with others by communicating about it), or confrontation of the memories internally and in solitude.

These aren't equivalent options. Compartmentalization causes it to be out of the way, but still taking up valuable space; externalization requires carrying the memory for a time, but when the right opportunity arises, we can release it to someone who finds it valuable (just as Tem is willing to pay money for Bad Memories); internal confrontation can lead to great healing, but it demands vulnerability, may be painful, and without caution, could put us at risk.

It's very obvious how this reflects Alphys's character growth. She compartmentalizes the outcomes of her mistakes down in the True Lab, hiding them away from others, while forcing herself to care for them on her own without support. Repeatedly confronting that regret (as well as provocation by Flowey) breaks her down until she's at her most vulnerable and most exhausted, and then she faces a choice: to either admit to what she's done, or end the grief herself. Admitting to her actions allows her to move on, while providing something tremendously valuable in return: for the Amalgamates and their loved ones, the opportunity to finally reunite; and for the Players, a treasure trove of information and arguably one of the best sequences in the entire game.

How does any of this reflect Gaster's character or story? i was going to editorialize on this a bit and then realized i was drifting too far into the minimally-evidenced opinion zone so instead i’ll just say maybe we’ll see parallels between Alphys’s bad memories and Gaster’s Bad Memories develop over time.

---

The Sprite

This is where the biggest indications of a relationship to Gaster Deltarune and possible indications of his activities in Dark World MAY, ARGUABLY, be found. This section also touches on some of the most ambiguous information and the shakiest conclusions. Bear with me here.

Chatty Skull Imagery

i was gonna include images in this section but i think the post is too long and tumblrs mad at me now and doesn’t like my pictures so. sorry :(

Memoryhead's battle sprite is commonly seen to resemble a brain with a spinal cord curling underneath, and I wholeheartedly agree. I'd also argue it looks like a cartoon speech bubble -- this was actually how I initially read it when playing the game. These are both consistent with its memory theming and communication through the cell phone.

In addition to the above imagery, I've also seen arguments that it resembles a skull speaking on a phone: (imagine static image of sprite next to animated one lol)

This becomes a little more apparent in the animation, as its bobbing motion gives the impression of the skull's mouth opening and closing. While the phone aspect of this is immediately consistent with the ACT options, and "head" would certainly refer to a skull more literally than a brain, there's still some ambiguity as to what, if anything, the use of a skull could mean.

It's possible that the suggestion of a skull is simply meant to contribute to the eeriness of the image. However, I feel that Undertale's precedents for skull imagery tend toward greater nuance. Sans and Papyrus are introduced early on as cute, charming characters, subverting common associations with humanoid skulls. The more frightening instances of skull imagery -- the DT extractor, God of Hyperdeath's ultimate attack, and Gaster Blasters -- recall an animal or monster's skull, not a human's.

These latter examples are also arguably meaningful beyond their unsettling nature: the DT extractor (as well as Flowey X's resemblance to it) and God of Hyperdeath's attack are both tied to Asriel's death and incomplete resurrection, while the Gaster Blasters have something to do with Gaster I Guess (or at least demonstrate a connection between him and Sans and bolster other indications of his skeleton-ness).

If we hold it to be true that a humanoid skull is present in Memoryhead's sprite, and an unsettling one in particular, then it may not be too much of a stretch to think there's narrative or symbolic intent underlying that choice. It doesn't automatically follow that it's an image of WD Gaster speaking into a phone, but it does seem to raise that as a possibility. I should mention, too, that this is consistent with what I feel to be a running theme of obfuscating information about Gaster, as well as influencing our interpretations of that information, through the emotional language of eldritch unease and the abstraction of his character.

HIDDEN SECRETS REVEALED!!!!!!!!!!

Last but not least, we have what is possibly the most crucial and also wildly opinionated interpretive "evidence" of the analysis: Memoryhead's faces. I'm still skeptical of this myself, so make of it what you will.

Some fans have raised the possibility that Memoryhead's faces are depictions of the secret bosses. This is based on their belief that Jevil and Spamton's faces can be seen on the left of the sprite.

(Image created by u/TheQueen0fNowhere, found in thread linked above)

This would suggest that the secret bosses are the constituent memories in question, or at least representative of them.

As cool as this possibility is, there's clearly a lot of room for doubt. I've listed a few possible issues in the Caveats section at the end.

---

Synthesis WRT Gaster Knight

There's a great deal of storytelling around Memoryhead that seemingly points to it being directly connected to Gaster in some way.

If Memoryhead is a reflection of Gaster's bad memories, then it suggests that he feels some amount of grief, regret, or guilt over failed and/or "corrupted" attempts to connect with others. This may have involved manipulation, of which he may have been a victim and/or a perpetrator.

Deltarune's current trend for secret bosses holds that they've all "lost themselves" and experienced some form of hardship and pain (maybe excluding Jevil lol he's just having a good time) as a result of interacting with the unseen Roaring Knight and receiving Forbidden Knowledge from them. Spamton's story in particular heavily invokes the imagery and symbolism of phones as a medium for connection, and explores the inherent vulnerability of trusting or depending on others.

Some admittedly pretty ambiguous imagery in Memoryhead's sprite may be very directly tying it to Deltarune's secret bosses, in turn potentially tying them to Gaster. While less explicit, the specificity of the themes, imagery, and symbols in common between Gaster, Memoryhead, and the Secret Bosses still suggest that Memoryhead could connect the two... wait... con... connect... oh my god

Memoryhead also serves to underscore major aspects of Alphys's experience of regret and trauma, specifically due to actions that were motivated by duty to and love for her society, but were marred by incomplete knowledge and exacerbated by a reticence to admit to her mistakes or seek help.

If we hold it to be true that Memoryhead can represent meaningful storytelling for both characters simultaneously, then we have reason to think that their stories may also be in some way parallels. While this isn't the only conclusion that could be drawn, it does seem reasonably consistent with Gaster's characterization in Deltarune -- assuming that we both recognize and are willing to trust that characterization. We do, after all, have indications that he's capable of manipulation in pursuit of a cause.

---

Assorted thoughts that aren't immediately relevant but I figured I'd make note of them anyway

There's a pretty clear allusion to Deltarune's Man in the True Lab but I didn't really get into it because idk the most concrete thing it really tells us is that Lab Related to Gaster and i feel like it's already been fairly self-evident for years why traces of him would be found in the lab. it's literally the habitat asgore made for his pet scientists and filled with important enrichment such as a kitchenette and fun toys with which to commit well-intended atrocities. of course gaster worked/lived there lol i do personally think the language of an undescribed "man" (like, not mysteryman or everyman or snowman, simply A Man) is being used to indicate that Gaster Our Good Friend Gaster (the "actual" guy, who's incorporeal and may have kind of a dispersed perspective but retains contiguity of consciousness) is present in an area, as opposed to just remnants or echoes of him. but i think that's a justification post for later

Others have pointed out the similarities between the Shower Creature in the True Lab and the things that shoot bullets in the "??????" area (spooky supply closet area) in Deltarune. I do not have any real idea about What This Means in particular but it's another interesting connection to keep in mind in the future.

Oh boy the DR team did sort of reference the shower curtain in Spamton Sweepstakes didn't they

Sort of related to that, I do have some vague opinions about the possible nature of the Watching Man (see Wiki article above) who approaches menacingly only to sweetly tuck Frisk in and peace out. but i feel like i need to spend more time on other stuff before I can even begin to justify those, and even then i'll be swinging for the fences i think

i was also going to postulate on how memoryheads name being blank also means stuff maybe but then i forgot and now im too tired. but an empty space for a name could be consistent with our guy. honestly i think the stuff around gasters name is really interesting in general esp if we consider it alongside the isolation and erasure (both possibly self-inflicted) and what it might say about his relationship to himself (deep unease at the very least, id guess lol)

---

Caveats

I want to acknowledge some important possible pitfalls in these interpretations with regard to GKT:

Most obviously, it remains to be seen whether any of the secret bosses from future chapters are represented among Memoryhead's faces.

Kris's fountain in general could potentially destabilize many aspects of GKT as I currently see it. Concerning Memoryhead in particular, the logic here assumes that Gaster (from his perspective) previously interacted with Deltarune's secret bosses. If we do see the secret boss of Kris's (or any other characters') Dark World represented, then what does that mean? Does it mean that Kris opening their Fountain is something that happened in Gaster's past, and is not a new twist in the Deltarune universe's trajectory? Does it mean that Gaster somehow visited those Dark Worlds as well? Right now, I'm not sure what we can make of that. While I'm not sure it would necessarily disprove the general idea that Gaster has some regrets about the secret bosses, for some reasons, it would destabilize many of the ideas laid out here.

The above two thoughts lead to another possibility: that Gaster wasn't opening Fountains himself, but was somehow simply interacting with the secret bosses on the side. Again, not sure what to make of that right now.

There's another possibility for why both Alphys and Gaster seem to be reflected in Memoryhead: perhaps Memoryhead is a manifestation of bad memories she has about him, and not directly reflective of his thoughts or experiences. I chose not to get into this because it begs a lot more questions that are hard to answer and i think the above interpretations pretty successfully counter-indicate it. but also the idea of that honestly just makes me feel very ":/ ok" (listen im very earnestly trying not to woobify the guy but i also think his flaws and potential for villainy are likely more nuanced than outright malice or a disregard for other people or whatever.) But anyway i figured i should acknowledge it

#deltarune #deltarune theory #$ 666 mystery man lore hell #$ chadley deltaruminations original lorepost corner #$ waltz of a shattered man #wd gaster #im not really sure if i should tag this undertale bc it’s really ultimately about the other game

52 notes · View notes

drowninnoodles · 4 months

Text

ULTIMATE (not really) GASTER CONNECTIONS LIST THING

Finally, I wrote down everything that came to my mind, most of them were theories. So if I missed something, please let me know. Plus, I'll probably update this when I find something new.

Devil connections:

- His stats are with numbers 666

- He fell (into his creation)

- his font has the word Wing in its name

-the first version of deltarune was 0.666

-religious connections of characters in Deltarune

- Possibility that he is an Angel

-Dark, Darker, Yet Darker

- Speaks through the Device - Ouija board reference?

- Shadow Crystals as pieces of him

- is associated with the most hell-like place in the Underground

Enemies in Undertale are similar to the Main Boss of the area-

Characters in the core:

- Final Froggit: Searching for Life Meaning/ Giving life its own meaning. Threaten/Mystify

-Whimsalot: "There's still hope", "I've made my choice", "No regrets", Prayers, Butterflies,

-Madjick: Clear Mind, Magican, Emits Cross-shaped bullets

-Knight Knight: Sleeping, Good Morningstar, Knight

Following this lead, Mettaton should not be a Core Boss -> there is no connection. This is Gaster's place

Uncategorized things:

-The core we see is redesigned by Mettaton, we do not know its previous layout

-Into voice's typer text value is the same as Gaster's

-Everything related to him in the files is written in caps

-His theme plays in Bunker

-He is described as always listening

-Like the corrupted characters he has voice lines (the word Deltarune spoken in the intro, laugh in Undertale files and BIG SHOT)

- can break the fourth wall ( takes over Twitter account)

- Deltarune crashes after typing "Gaster"

-"Man.ogg" is Yume Nikki Fansong

- talks to us in Vessel maker

- is in the Void

-Ms.Zarves and Ray as Inspiration for Gaster

-Possibly a Skeleton

- is the creator of Deltarune

- speaks in hands (probably WingDings font)

- He knows Chara personally (they work together)

- Deltarune is owned by ROYAL SCIENCES, LLC

-is scientist

-He worked for Asgore

-Dark Totems in Core - Dark Fountains first version?

-Memoryhead emits Gaster-like bullets

-Memoryhead says “Lorem Ipsum Docet” -> It means something like "Pain teaches”

-Memoryhead can give you a piece of themself

-Piece is called “Bad Memory”, Follower 3 is recalling Bad Memory connected to Gaster

-Noelle’s Blog page is reference to MysteryMan’s appearance in Undertale

-The entirety of Deltarune is an experiment

-Freezing is both reference to Freezing computer and Dante’s Inferno

-is connected to phones - Part of Memoryhead looks like phone

-”Another Him” uses Giygas soundfont

-Gaster seems to be heavily inspired by Uboa from Yume Nikki and Giygas from Earthboud

-Giygas and Gaster have a machines tied to them. Both are strongly associated with the theme of the devil and prayers.

HIS CREATION = BLACK HOLE:

-“A jump into a black hole is a one-way trip. Black holes are regions of space where gravity is so strong that nothing can escape them, not even light. Even before you reach the event horizon – the point of no return – you would be “spaghettified” by the black hole's tidal forces.” -Supernova

-You fall into a Black Hole

-“Of course, no matter what type of black hole you plunge into, you're ultimately going to get torn apart by its extreme gravity and die a horrible death. No material that falls inside a black hole could survive intact.” - Spacendbeyondthebox

-is everywhere at the same time - after being torn apart

-“Negative Photons reading”

-He was scattered across time and space

-theory made by Reddit user Garble365:

“in Interstellar (the sci-fi movie), Cooper falls into a blackhole, and he gets access to every place in the universe, in this infinitely small blackhole. Basically he is everywhere, at the same time. He can look at his daughter and hear her. But he cannot speak to her with his voice, the sound doesn't reach her due to some reason. So he resolves to knocking a few books in a bookshelf in his daughter's bedroom. Her daughter thought it was a ghost, being small. When she grew up, she realizes it was morse code in the form of books being knocked over. It was her father. He was speaking with his hand”

VIRUS CONNECTIONS:

- causes the files to become corrupted - the characters go insane after the meeting

-“The virus starts propagating, which is multiplying and replicating itself. The virus places a copy of itself into other programs” - Wikipedia

EGG CONNECTIONS:

- mysteryman head shape

- Scientists/intellectual people are called Eggheads

- Humpty Dumpty Reference

- Eggs given by the Man - possible Gaster pieces?

-The eggs stick together into one piece

-eggs break the game's fourth wall and move between save files

-When you drop an egg it says "what egg?" as if it doesn't exist

GERSON AND GASTER CONNECTIONS

-They were both replaced by Alphys after they left

-They are both highly respected by the people

-Religion references - Gerson’s son is priest

-Gaster in tarot card deck was replaced by Gerson

-GERSON is an anagram of the word GONERS

-Gerson in Undertale has knowledge that other monsters do not have

GASTER’S THEME:

-Gaster Blaster looks like Turtle skull

DRAGON CONNECTIONS

-Noelle is playing dragon blazer's 3. She is currently at the snow drake.

- Gaster blaster resembles a dragon's skull and the "beams" could easily be snow, similar to the snow grave spell

- "knight knight" who has a strange reoccurring motifs of day, nights, and dreams. Her sprite is labeled as a dragon

-susie's axe, which is said to be made of a dragon's mane. Implying that susie herself is a dragon

“must.Him.Ogg”

Another Him

Darkness Falls

Scarlet Forest

Card Castle

Rouxls Kaard

Chaos King

The Circus

The World Revolving

The Holy

Friendship

Man

Girl Next Door

Queen

Welcome to the City

A cyber’s world?

Giga Size

BIG SHOT

Spamton

Dialtone

#Noodle you will need this #deltarune #undertale #undertale theory #Deltarune theory #deltarune meta #Undertale meta #utdr #gaster #wd gaster #wd gaster undertale #deltarune gaster

57 notes · View notes

springbloggy · 7 months

Text

Kris: A horrifying theory that literally came to me in a dream

Ever read and watch so many Deltarune theories it comes to you subconsciously? This was the subject of my last 2 dreams. Now it coming to me in a dream is kinda silly, but the evidence? It's scarily convincing.

In modern cultures, Zombies are undead people that rise from the grave. Typically Zombies in modern stories are caused by viruses that spread to other people, usually through bites. Zombies are mindless, stumbling around to place to place, only becoming powerful and strong when "on the hunt".

Besides stumbling about, Kris doesn't match any of this. However, this is the traditional idea of zombies, the origins of the zombie myth is where things become a whole lot more interesting. Zombies were originally created by Haiti folklore, as dead people revived by necromancy, usually done via a bokor, the Haitian counterpart to a witch or sorcerer. Zombies are then placed as the Bokor's personal slave, having no free will of their own. There was also a spiritual variation, where a zombie astral, aka a zombie soul, could be used to enhance the bokor's spiritual powers. The zombie astral could also be sealed in a bottle to be sold to bring luck, healing, or business success. Each type of zombie, the flesh and blood, and the spiritual kind, are missing one half of their soul from the original whole person it came from.

Now ok, what does any of these have to do with Kris? Well this is where things become weird, scary, and unconventional to the typical theory.

Kris died

To understand this, lets look into what we currently know about Kris' backstory. Kris was a trouble making kid, often pulling pranks. But they weren't mean spirited about it and made close friends with the Holiday family specifically. One day, something traumatic happened to Kris and the Holidays that tore the two families apart. This is hinted to be the disappearance of Dess, the older sibling of Noelle and the daughter of the mayor. There is also a bunker in the woods that Kris is traumatized by. This bunker is implied to be one of the last areas where Kris, Dess, Noelle, and Asriel played in before Dess' ultimate disappearance.

But then, years later, Kris and Susie fall in a dark world. Judging by how scared Kris seemed during the fall into the first dark world, I don't think this is Kris' first venture into one at all. Not only that, but I think dark worlds is what caused Kris' trauma.

So lets set the stage: Kris & co. go into the bunker on a dare, perhaps by Kris and fall into a dark world. Noelle, scared, stressed, and confused pulls snowgrave. Now most theories I see go into this route have her pulling it on Dess, who is trying to calm down Noelle. This I always found unconvincing, especially as more and more signs of Dess being trapped in the games code come out. But if Noelle pulls snowgrave on Kris, suddenly things make more sense for what happens later on in the game. Now the scary voice coming from Kris commanding Noelle to do the snowgrave spell is a lot more sinister if this is the same spell that caused Kris' death.

Anyways Kris, ya know, dies from this and everyone is heartbroken and Dess, being as headstrong as she is, runs off into the dark world to find the solution. Becoming lost in the process.

In comes Gaster, Gaster takes in the player's soul and one half of Kris' soul and fuses it together, placing it inside of Kris. Kris becomes an undead being. They are not the same as they once were and is now under the player's total control for most of the time. For the other characters looking in, Kris only had a near-death experience, but Kris knows the truth.

Kris, Noelle, and Asriel run out of the bunker dark world without Dess. This sparks the investigation by the mayor to find her missing daughter, Asgore can't find Dess, gets fired, etc. Then Deltarune begins.

So now you're wondering, what happened to Kris' other soul half? Well..

Ralsei is Kris' other soul-half

Many theories of Ralsei I found kinda unconvincing. If Ralsei is Asriel's dust, then why is there so much about Asriel returning home. If Ralsei is a titan, why is he so neatly connected to Asriel? It just leaves too much blanks. One of the most popular theories is that Ralsei is Kris' monstersona brought to life. For context, Ralsei has pink horns, while Kris used to wear a pink horned headband growing up to fit in monster society. This makes a lot of sense, but also leaves so many blanks to some of Ralsei's more suspicious moments.

But I think zombie Kris theory is right, then suddenly this makes a lot more sense, but now Ralsei is a much more creepy character.

One of the things that make up the zombie myth is how the soul is split into two: the body soul, which performs bodily functions, and the free soul, which is the person's true self and can leave the body and wander to the afterlife. I believe that Kris only has one half of their free soul and the other half, the player, makes up for their body soul. The other half of Kris' free soul makes up Ralsei, a personification of the monster that Kris wanted to be growing up. Ralsei has all the childhood innocence Kris used to have before becoming traumatized by the bunker, but also has no sense of self due to his incomplete soul. But I think he is well aware that Kris has the other half of the soul and the two are planning to fuse it back together.

This sentence always appears when the player is focused away from Kris and Ralsei. But why? Its a mystery that has stumped many. But if I am right, now it makes sense. Have the player gone away so they don't find out that Kris and Ralsei are planning to get rid of the player's soul in order to fuse their own, so Kris can be a whole person again.

There's also the theory about Ralsei being "attracted" to the player's soul, however I think it could be the other way around. Ralsei isn't attracted to the player's soul, he's attracted to Kris' soul half.

The title screen

This comes from @mirror-ralsei's title screen theory.

youtube

The title screen adds to the overall theme of multiplication and division in Deltarune:

The SOUL, and all the other parts of the logo, appear to be divided again and again, gradually fading with each division until there's nothing left of them. -mirror-ralsei

The title screen could foreshadow the ending...but it could also foreshadow what happened to Kris.

Kris dies.

Through some miracle, Gaster finds Kris' soul, but it is damaged beyond belief.

Gaster fuses half of Kris' soul, the half that makes up Kris' "true self" with the player's soul.

The other half divides off to become Ralsei

The twinkling snowgrave sound effect at the end is an indicator to what happened to Kris. They died due to the snowgrave spell.

Flowey

Deltarune plays with inversions and subversions of Undertale a lot. The most obvious one being the theme of each game. Deltarune, your choices don't matter, Undertale you must stay determined to make the right choices.

Kris is the Flowey inversion. Flowey is a soulless flower given life with Asriel's dust and the souls of fallen children. Kris is a dead human injected with half of their own soul and the soul of the player.

Mother time!

The mother series is Undertale and Deltarune's greatest inspiration. Many of the games themes and ideas stem from their.

Undertale is a combination of Mother 1 and 2, the most apparent of this combination is through the final boss of most routes: Flowey/Asriel.

Asriel is similar in many ways to Giegue from mother 1. Both are the children of their race (alien for Giegue, monster for Asriel). Both had to make a tough decision regarding humans. Giegue had to decide to pull war against humanity, even though he was raised by human parents, Asriel had to carry Chara to the humans while they were dying. Both grow up to have a negative worldview and become spiritually monstrous. Giegue becomes the terrifying Giygas while Asriel becomes Flowey, and in the neutral route, becomes the terrifying Photoshop Flowey. Both are ultimately defeated by the positivity of the main characters. Giegue gets defeated by the children singing his mother's lullaby. Giygas gets defeated by the collective prayers of all the characters Ness meets. Asriel gets defeated by sparing him.

This is where things get sad. If Undertale is Mother 1 and 2, than Deltarune is the darker Mother 3. Mother 3 is about Lucas on a race to pull the needles that wake up the dark dragon before the masked man does. If someone with a good heart, like Lucas pulls the needles, the dragon will wake up and recreate the world with no hesitation. But if someone with an evil heart pulls the needles, then the world will be destroyed for good.

It is revealed that the Masked Man is actually Lucas' dead brother Claus, rebuilt as a cyborg by the pigmask army. Claus lacks a heart and all of his memories are gone for the majority of the game. Only until the end, does he get reminded of them, and ultimately Claus ends up ending his own life.

There's a lot of similarities to Mother 3 already in Deltarune, the fountains play a similar role to the needles. When created, they will create a dark world, and if enough are done, it could end the world. There's many theories of the world of Deltarune being in a timeloop or being reset in some way, which could be similar to Lucas' good heart rebuilding the world, thus starting the world "over again".

However, this is where the Masked Man parallel lies. Many people already noticed the similarities to Mother 3 and Deltarune and predict that our "masked man" would be the knight or even Dess. However, under this theory, I think that the game will pull a surprise inversion.

If Kris is really undead and is the Flowey inversion, then Kris will turn out to be the game's Masked Man. The true protagonist of the game isn't Kris, but the knight all along, or some other character like Susie, Noelle, etc.

This will provide a tragic ending, if Toby really does go "all in" with the Masked Man parallels with Kris like I am theorizing, than the end of the game will end with Kris' death. Perhaps, if I am right with Ralsei hosting the other half of their soul, having it fuse for one final time while Asriel watches his sibling die. It's a tragic ending to a tragic game.

I'm not an undertale or deltarune lore expert, so feel free to debunk or expand or what have you on these ideas. I personally find them scarily plausible, but understand why it doesn't seem that way for others. I just hope this provides a somewhat entertaining read, despite how sad it is of a theory.

#deltarune #deltarune theory #undertale #undertale theory #utdr theory #utdr #mother spoilers #Youtube #springy thoughts

133 notes · View notes

frozen-spaghetti · 8 months

Text

Why Sans & Papyrus' are from Deltarune, and how it's so controversial

In the Deltarune fandom, I've been noticing some recent debate on whether Sans & Papyrus are truly from Undertale's world or Deltarune's world. So, I've decided to make a Tumblr theory post to cover several aspects of this! Enjoy!

Part I of this post covers the evidence, II covers counter-evidence, and III covers the controversy of it.

Part I - Are they from DELTARUNE's world? Here's some of the evidence:

• In the Genocide battle against Sans, he begins speaking about "going back." To where? Well.... • This is also a parallel to some of his dialogue on the Pacifist run. He comments to Frisk that he understands their feeling of longing to return home.

• However, this could just mean the surface, right?

• With that one line, Sans has made it clear that neither the Undergroud nor the Surface is his true home.

He also is the only returning Undertale character with absolutely zero outfit or theme song changes between games.

• Okay, but what about Papyrus? He's a totally different guy in Deltarune! He never goes outside, and in Undertale, he claims to have never seen a human.

• Well, I do have a few counters to this.

• As many fans will know, Papyrus confirmed in the Summer 2023 newsletter that he used to live in a place with green grass, such as the place that he and Sans on in Hometown.

• Now, that confirms Sans and Papyrus are both from the same world, and likely the Deltarune world as previously established. They also may have gotten the means to travel from the third skeleton, Gaster, who is all but confirmed to be a major player in Deltarune.

• As for why Papyrus acts so differently depending on the worlds; well... I don't subscribe to amnesia theory. It leans too hard into giving Sans the better treatment, so instead, I'd say Papyrus is purposefully in denial. How so? Let's read some dialogue from the King Papyrus ending.

All of this makes it seem like Papyrus is used to denial and making himself forget things. This seems to cast a new light onto that "don't forget." note as well. However, with all that out of the way, let me move on to addressing some counter arguments.

Part II - Merchandise, Dust, and Kris

• Okay, if Papyrus is from Deltarune, why does he dust? Berdly doesn't dust when he dies, and Sans isn't shown to dust either.

This is explained via the "fallen down" mechanism, when monsters are near-dead but are not fully dusted. This happens to Undertale monsters, and presumably Berdly as well. Berdly enters a deathly coma which is a major symptom of fallen down, and when Sans dies we don't see him dust on-screen. He possibly entered the state, and the reason we don't see him in the overworld is because he either already dusted, or he teleported away and remained in a coma. Due to the fact we earned an LV I'd go with the former.

Merchandise. Toby promised there wouldn't be merch of Deltarune lightners, but there's a Papyrus and Sans plush!

• Well, I'd say these are just based on where they appear first, they're branded as Undertale anyway. It'd be like if Smash Bros. Ultimate labelled Sans as a Deltarune character. For now, and likely for forever unless some crazy specific stuff happens, these two will be more associated with Undertale.

Part II.I - The Kris Argument

Papyrus has never met a human! Thus, we either can't see him in Deltarune or he's from Undertale.

Well, this is a fair point, but assuming Papyrus Denial Theory is true, him blocking away all of his memories of the Deltarune world could explain this! But even ignoring that....The skeletons are known to be quite the secretive sillies, even ignoring Gaster.

So in general, with all the counterpoints out of the way, why is this controversial in general?

Part III: Controversy

Many people argue that Sans & Papyrus being from Deltarune would be a case of poor writing.

Several have expressed concerns about how Undertale characters already have a game, and how multiverse stories in recent memory have often messed up, and how Toby could fall into said traps. Last thing we want is Bad Time Megalovania 2 Strike Back right?

I've also seen it be called "Toby leaning into fandom tropes" as well but to be fair, Toby created said tropes with lines by Sans and Alphys implying AU's exist canonically, and he himself pushes Sans as a mascot all the time, though he isn't the main character.

But yeah, with the several decent counterpoints explained away, it somewhat confuses me how large the group of people is that still deny Sans is from Deltarune is, albeit I understand their concerns.

So, since this seems to be really divisive these days (though generally most agree with me..)

I'd like to ask;

Do you think Sans & Papyrus are from Deltarune?

#deltarune #undertale #sans #papyrus #gaster #kris dreemurr #theory

60 notes · View notes

chartoris · 6 months

Text

DELTARUNE PREDICTION TIME

I hope I finish this post before the anniversary of chapter 1 (nothing else notable happens on that day) I'm putting my 100% correct theories+ predictions here just in case Toby decides to release chapter 3 alone for some reason (I personally think he's releasing just 3 and 4 together next year), but who knows with that dog.

CHAPTER 3

As everyone else thinks, it's safe to say that the dark world in chapter 3 is probably gonna be TV themed. With different areas going through different channels.

THE BOSS

I don't think we can predict who exactly the main villain is yet based off of one thing Jevil said about a queen in one line. But it would make sense if it were some fucked up game show host guy. Maybe since the Spade King represents Susie's dad, and Queen represents a mother, the chapter 3 boss could represent that estranged uncle that nobody really talks about.

Also Tenna is probably the guy that betrayed Spamton. Not Mike.

THE SHADOWMEN

They're just gonna be silly litle guys.

THE WEATHER CHANNEL

Also sily.

THE POLICE

Since Toriel called the police and Kris left the door opened, I think that either Undyne shows up, or Napstablook shows up wearing Undyne's Undertale armor. Both of which would be awesome sauce.

NOELLE

No idea if she'll show up in the chapter. But I also have no clue why else the Lost Girl theme was in that unused sneaking section. Yes I'm still thinking about this.

THE END

I believe that chapter 3 might end with Kris sealing the fountain. Like you walk up, that sickass guitar riff plays, the screen fades to white, and the chapter ends (assuming it releases with chapter 4). Imagine how relieving it would be that the chapter doesn't have to end on a massive cliffhanger!

CHAPTER 4

Based on the screenshots we got for the 2022 status update, I don't think chapter 4 will have a dark world. It seems like a nice intermission chapter to just hang out with Susie in Hometown for a couple hours. We could get more insight into the residents of the town, as well as some lore.

i'm a huge fan of rain so this seems like the best the game will ever get.

I think its possible that Toby might have changed his might about releasing 3-5 together, and that he might just release 3 and 4. Assuming this chapter is just in the light world, it would probably be a lot faster to develop. No enemies, no battles, just cutscenes.

Keep in mind, I just took one programming class 5 years ago, so I'm not the ultimate authority on game design. But if it is easier to develop, I think we could see chapters 3+4 next fall.

I don't really have any other predictions for chapter 4 since all we have are a few screenshots, and even less for the future chapters. So I'm just going to talk about other general things in the game.

THE BUNKER

Gaster is afoot. Also maybe Dess or something idk yet. Oh and a dark fountain too. Maybe even the supply closet one.

DARK WORLDS

I don't think EVERY room with double doors is going to be a dark world, especially considering that Toby can just retcon them in between chapters, so I like to go off of narrative significance.

I think there will totally be a dark world in the church, considering the Dreemurr family has a significant amount of history with it, as well as the interesting thing you could do with it. Like a giant pipe organ castle or something.

There probably won't be a dark world in Ice-E's, unless something super traumatizing happened to Kris there when they were a kid. But I still have my eye on that Ice-E guy. Something fishy is absolutely going on with him.

why is he so big

Asgore's flower shop seems like a really good place for a dark world, and I need to see what the golden flower darkener would be. The empty fridge could even be like the ice palace from Dragon Blazers.

THE HOLIDAYS

Rudy is most likely going to die. I really don't want him to but unfortunately it would be really good for the story. Noelle would be forced to stand up to her mom like she did to Queen.

Also Noelle's mom's name is probably either Clarice or Carol.

WEIRD ROUTE

Its likely that not every chapter will have a weird route. I think they are more tied to Noelle's presence, due to her affinity for video game glitches when she was younger. Especially because it seems like the route itself isn't supposed to happen in the game world. And the weird route is a way to break out of the whole "your choices don't matter" thing. You might even be able to save Rudy in the route, at the cost of Noelle's mental state and every other horrible thing you may have to do.

THE KNIGHT

I don't think the Knight will be the main antagonist. It might get revealed relatively early (like chapter 5), unless its Gaster or something. The actual main antagonist of the game will be either the Roaring Titans or the Angel.

THE ROARING

This is probably gonna happen at some point. Ralsei leaves for ONE minute and someone opens a dark fountain in a dark world. Can't have shit.

holy hell they look so badass

Also penumbra phantasm final boss theme. make it happen toby.

#deltarune #utdr #deltarune theory #i am objectively correct

24 notes · View notes

potabo · 7 months

Text

Deltarune's Ending

So as we have basically all of Deltarune released, it obviously seems reasonable - as many have done- to speculate on the ending of the game.

Now I can't- with a straight face- argue that I have any idea on how deltarune will actually end. What I can do is share a few observations that I haven't seen made elsewhere.

Now evidently the first place to look for any theory of this nature is, of course, the the first thing you see when booting up the game. Not the very nice one with our three protagonists standing very impressively before a dark fountain, but the one that looks like a DOS menu with spooky text. what I'm talking about is, of course,

1. The Title Screen

Now, as many have no doubt seen and/or heard, there are a number of unique quirks exclusive to this screen that fuel the theory community, but theres always been one thing about this screen in particular that always seemed.... More Important.

As you may know, for a variety of reasons, this screen is frequently taken to be narrated by the G man himself, Goofy nosurname.

What makes this relevant is that this, in conjunction with:

A. The Twitter announcement for Deltarune

B. The Game Over Screen

And of course C. The gonermaker segment at the start of a new run:

We can reasonably* assume that this character has some amount of influence over the game, if not straight up responsible for its existence.

All of which is to say, of course, that anything that we can glean from this character has the potential to be massively important to the rest of the game- which brings us to the prompter for this particular theory:

(What's interesting to note here is that, you don't actually need to have 3 identical files for this particular gaster text to appear, you simply need to overwrite any that are different)

2. The Evidence

Now what does this actually tell us about the ending of deltarune? Let's gather what else we know about the ending of deltarune:

the ever present, ever looming promise (threat) of a single ending, of an inexorable ending to the events of deltarune.

And if that was all, then it would be open and shut, case closed- however there is also... ambiguity as to the finality of these statements:

Note the question mark and the statement of a "new" future.

There's one final piece of the puzzle we need to make this into a proper, regular, unhinged deltarune theory tm: a bit of a insiders look at the development process.

Specifically:

deltarune, going forward, needs the capability to act as multiple separate games

3. The Actual Theory Finally

Now we have all the components, so here's the theory:

Deltarune will, in fact, have One ending- but it is the ending we choose. If anything I'm saying here is remotely right, we will need to choose the savefile that we want to be the real ending: hence the somewhat ominous "PREPARATIONS ARE COMPLETE" upon converting all of your savefiles to be the same.

We know there are slight differences between the save files:

File 1

File 2

File 3

And we additionally know that theres some overlap between save files (I'm on to you seem the cat)

so deciding the One Ending is the decision you make to choose where your file goes. if that makes any sense

In other words, you have to play a different game (or rather the game again) to see a different outcome. This, in my mind, is the ultimate reconciliation of these two contradictory statements: the inevitability of the one ending and the potential to change the future.

Extra bonus mini theory

The second most interesting observation I've had while making this post (beyond the "preparations" what prompted this) is the multiple game instances for deltarune. If I'm anywhere near the realm of correct at this point, it could be that these other instances wouldn't strictly be, you know, deltarune, instead being... I don't know... gastertale and tobyworld or something

#theory posting #utdr #deltarune #gastertale #tobyworld #(trust me)#this one took me way too long to write for how #messy #it is #now fly my beautiful baby

21 notes · View notes

my-blood-is-ink · 2 years

Text

Papyrus is the Knight

Okay, holding myself accountable. I’ll explain these points more later.

1. Narratively makes sense (Papyrus’s character arc never reached any sort of conclusion, multiple unanswered questions regarding his relationship to Gaster and exactly how much he knows, etc.)

2. First UT patch (made available about three months after UT originally released) added a line where Papyrus claims he would have blasted you, most likely with a Gaster Blaster.

By then Sans’ fight was common knowledge in the UT community (people discovered Gaster merely days after UT initially released), so this line would be an odd way to foreshadow Sans’ attacks and ultimately pretty much meaningless from a narrative standpoint unless Toby Fox wanted to reveal Papyrus had Gaster Blasters later on (which, well, never happens in UT).

3. Would have “blasted” you in a genocide run (was surprised when you killed him with a single blow)

4. “Brutal” line in UT, followed by a rare expression of genuine sadness

5. Closet connections between UT and DR

6. Bizarre emphasis on not knowing what his hands look like in UT and an emphasis on the Knight having long hands in DR

7. Phone connections

8. Can see through phones

9. NoClip theory (find source!)

10. Aware of RESETs?

11. Manipulative streak, but has good intentions

12. Prone to denial and escapism (a running theme in DR)

13. Theoretical battle scenarios (find source! not my theory)

14. DR sprite for Papyrus already made (find source! not my theory)

15. Hierophant theory (find source! not my theory)

16. “What The Four Shadows Foreshadow” by HalfBreadChaos (will link later, not my theory)

17. Revelations connection theory on UT Reddit (will link later, not my theory)

18. Flowey and the Annoying Dog are oddly focused on him throughout UT

19. Starmen symbol on his armor (agent of Gaster? Probably reaching here)

There are a lot of posts and videos I need to link. Anything that says it needs a source is something I noticed because someone else wrote it or discussed it in a video. I have been busy with grad school and work, but I want to write this out so I have something to reference when more DR chapters come out.

#knight papyrus #papyrus #papyrus deltarune #papyrus undertale #papyrus theory #papyrus is the knight #undertale theory #deltarune theory

227 notes · View notes

carlyraejepsans · 2 years

Note

I think “our reports” is probably Sans referring to himself and Alphys, because Flowey wouldn’t have come into existence to mess around with the timelines while Gaster was around, being created by Alphys during the DT experiments and all. OR, he could be referring to other times ppl have jumped around during timeline shenanigans, as the past human children are implied to have done so by Toriel and Asgore. OR those reports could be fairly “new”, and genuinely showing Frisk’s timeline jumping, given that Sans accuses them of being culprit while also knowing they like Just Got Here. Much to think about.

See, my issue with this isn't the chronology. The nature of Sans' work as a scientist is entirely speculation, but it would be perfectly plausible if whatever method "they" used to study the space-time continuum also allowed them to see future timelines. The way Sans talks about it seems to confirm it, the way he's actively trying to stop you from finishing a genocide run, it's because he sees it as something that's yet to happen, something he can prevent. I doubt it's Us/Frisk as it's fully possible to play the route straight out without resetting once and the anomaly comment will still be there. As for the previous fallen children, it's possible they DID make a blip on the map! But seeing as they were 6 separate events, all spaced apart some considerable years, and sans mentions A Massive Anomaly, I don't think he's referring to them

No, my issue with the theory that "our reports" included Alphys is that, despite the fandom's tendency to push her aside in favor of other characters, Alphys has perhaps THEE most complete, thorough, in-depth character arc out of the entire Undertale cast, bar maybe Flowey (and their arcs/backstories are inexorably tied!! she literally created him!). We explore her story more explicitly than any other, we can gleam her life before things went down from mettaton's diaries and catty and bratty's dialogue; we have not only a date sequence about helping her loosen up and grow as a person (just like papyrus and undyne) but also an entire game section dedicated to uncovering her work as the royal scientist and those very demons she's tried to hide for so long. We are involved in her past, her present AND her future, with how we help her psychologically to face the rest of her life without fear and amending for her mistakes.

...and yet there is not ONE single moment that points to her knowing the anomaly exists.

And we know what an incredible weight that knowledge had on Sans and his morality/apathy towards the world.

Alphys is perennially crushed by the weight of her choices and the consequences they brought to her and the innocent people around her, and feeling like she can't do anything right. The amalgamates disaster, her fight with mettaton, her general anxiety and feeling of inadequacy for her role, they all play a part in it and are given their space in her narrative. I don't think this would be the case if she ALSO knew all her efforts (the bad AND the good) were ultimately worthless. Or if it Were, and we were meant to pick up on it, that influence would've been mentioned or even just hinted at in the text.

We don't know the nature of Gaster's work, with or without Sans, but we also don't know the nature of Sans and Alphys' work, if they truly worked together. You can theorize that he gave her the blueprints she used to create/build the DT extraction machine, and it's implied that when the fallen monsters amalgamated, he helped her take care of them/hide them from the public. But how exactly they met is... a whole mystery. One alternative take I've seen (I think it was in the Over the Void comic, which I should absolutely read again) is Alphys learning that Sans was part of the old science team and reaching out to him for advice/help when she first got the job, and them becoming friends as a result. Or maybe it could be backwards, with Sans hearing about the Royal Scientist job being filled again and reaching out to her first. There's so much room for interpretation, and I don't think that's gonna change much, even if the mystery surrounding Gaster gets slowly explained in Deltarune

Which is a GREAT environment for fandom to thrive :]

#answered asks #undertale #alphys #sans #w.d. gaster #entry log

150 notes · View notes

freakbullet · 5 months

Note

hello! i just wanted to say i've been following you for a while, and i'm so happy that you're still a gaster fan!

it's been kinda sad seeing everything just slow down, normal for a fandom ofc, but still :(

gaster will always hold a special place in my heart 💕

I feel you, there's always a little twinge of sadness when a community hits that point where it's just not as thriving as it used to be. but on the other hand, it's so great to see new people keep coming in, and old ones return.

plus, I gotta say I'm still amazed (and grateful) at how much content there is for this one character who's ultimately just a glorified easter egg, and yet has more theories, fics, and fanart than some other games' main cast combined. so proud of him :)

but yeah no matter how many new things I get into, this loser somehow still keeps a vicegrip on my heart and brain.

I'm glad you're still here, thank you for the support and taking the time to share your thoughts!

#anon #freak speak

10 notes · View notes

lynxgriffin · 1 year

Note

Can you explain what you think of Gaster in Deltarune at the moment? (Because the Deal with the Devil confused me a bit)

Basically what the title of the comic implies: the Gaster is, at the very least, filling the role of the Devil in Deltarune. In Undertale the goners talk about Gaster being the original royal scientist and building the core, but since there's no indication of those existing in Deltarune, I think it's much more open to interpretation! The only science-related stuff we have for him in DR so far is the fact that he opened with the Survey Program, which sounded like it could be vaguely for science purposes (some odd questions like "favorite blood type" aside), but more than anything came off as contractual.

Gaster is frequently associated with the number 6, or whenever possible, the number 666. His FUN value in Undertale is 66, the noise playing around the bunker is the "garbage noise" phone call slowed down 666%, etc. 666 is a number traditionally associated with the Devil. That, coupled with him seemingly having one foot in Deltarune's universe and one foot outside of it, and the general air of creating and binding contracts with the player in the goner maker sequence, makes me think he's filling a Devil role in the story, if he's not supposed to be just the Devil for Deltarune's universe. Basically, in the comic (which for now is just headcanon/theory), Kris strikes up a deal with Gaster, who's acting as the Devil: giving up their soul in exchange for being possessed. Meanwhile, on our end, Gaster lures the player in with promises of lore or answers or "building a new future" through both the teasers on twitter and the opening goner maker sequence, but ultimately the player ends up as the demon possessing Kris.

#ask lynx stuff #I hope this was clear enough 8V

55 notes · View notes

starrixpedrum · 1 month

Text

Also here’s one that’ll blow ur cock clean off. Kris is Chara (and also technically us) but after the true pacifist post-genocide ending (where Chara takes our soul) so it’s not Chara’s original body but instead Our Own (hence the same skin tone, the name Kris, also we’ve aged along with how long undertale has been out) that Chara is Tentatively Allowing us to pilot around and fuck shit up with. But is ultimately Their vessel since we don’t “own” it anymore.

Also this leans REALLY heavy into the whole Chara is the narrator theory. And on top of that I think they live in a “forgotten” or maybe even “dark world” with everyone else who’s gotten rekt over the years (namely gaster, but I’d also venture to believe that spamton is the same way since his whole story arc is that he was extremely successful and then completely forgotten about, and maybe even Ralsei since that’s the original name Toby had for Asriel and we all know his ass is dead asl) but Chara takes priority for whatever reason (idk) and is able to manipulate people as The Knight or what have you.

Anyway I have to go to tutoring goodbye 😿🤖

#a take #undertale #deltarune #utdr #chara dreemurr #kris dreemurr

6 notes · View notes

moonlitlillypop · 2 months

Text

Everything we know so far about deltarune's ending is fucking wild and defies all logic. Like it's to the point where one of the more reasonable theories I can come up with is that most of the main characters just aren't going to be involved in the ultimate conclusion of the game.

Like there's only one ending no matter what you do or who you kill (so at the very least the ending has no Berdly), and Toby dreamed up the ending before Undertale existed, which really makes me question if any character that has an Undertale counterpart (except gaster) is gonna be involved with the conclusion of deltarune

#deltarune #undertale

6 notes · View notes

squidhominid · 1 year

Text

Deltarune thread: One More Final

So, a year and a half later, I've done it. I figured it out.

My Ralsei posts from October 2021, right after Chapter 2 came out, they gave METANARRATIVE threads as to Ralsei's actions. But not STORY-LEVEL MOTIVATION. The HOW, not the WHY.

I think I've cracked it.

Before we get started, if you haven't seen or don't remember my past Deltarune posts, here's a refresher: Part 1 Part 2

It all goes back to the theory that's been bouncing around the fandom for ages now, that Ralsei is the horned headband Kris had as a child.

For the sake of brevity, this video will take the place of an explanation. It's about a minute long

My realization is, this theory gives Ralsei CLEAR MOTIVATION for wanting to create an omni-narrative like I speculate about in these posts. That being that Ralsei, as the horn headband, is a literal manifestation of Kris' desire for wish fulfillment.

Ralsei, then, is acting in a way that he thinks satisfies Kris' desires. Kris demonstrably is the less-loved and less successful child. Asriel's side of the room is far more decorated, he's much more loved by his family and by the town as a whole. He is the model citizen.

Ralsei, then, by instigating the narrative of Deltarune, by having secret talks with Kris, who is then going on to create yet more dark fountains, may be acting in Kris' believed interest. Creating the framework for Kris to experience something fulfilling and interesting.

However, Kris seems offput by Ralsei. If we assume Ralsei is the headband this makes sense. Ralsei appears as the Kris Kris wishes they were. A boss monster, like their family. Like Asriel, their brother, the perfect child to their parents, who is everything they are not.

Even if we take Ralsei at face value and assume he is not behind the dark fountains, throw my theory out the window, the fact you are combining all the Dark Worlds into Your Castle Town, that Ralsei is bringing Kris on this adventure, is a sort of wish fulfillment.

No matter how we analyze this, either Ralsei and Kris are complicit, or their ends seem to run parallel to each other, even if on the surface their motives seem to be contradictory. And no matter how you slice it… This drives the point home, that Ralsei, and Your Castle Town, are representative of fans engaging with fiction. What is fanfiction, what is death of the author, what are collaborative canons like the SCP Foundation, D&D, Star Trek, Star Wars… If not ultimate wish fulfillment?

And so it all comes together. Whether Ralsei is complicit with opening the fountains, whether Ralsei and Kris are complicit or working together, both opening the fountains and building up Your Castle Town are narrative parallels to how fans interact with stories.

This even allows my theories to function free of the need for Ralsei to be dishonest. He can still be trying to fulfill his role in the prophecy, he can still be working towards sealing the fountains, as part of the narrative. Everyone playing their role.

Ultimately this fits with the themes we've seen so far beautifully. The player is not the protagonist, the player is an intrusive force in the world. But then, there is still the story. There are still forces beyond our knowledge or control. Gaster, Ralsei, the Knight.

As Toby said, there is only one ending. But there's something more important than reaching the end. The story would occur in the context of the world, with or without us. The forces inciting the narrative exist either way. We are interlopers, but also only participants.

So then, what is Ralsei? That's a question I think unanswerable until further chapters are out (this year, I hope?). But, these Tumblr posts have indicated some narrative threads left for us to pull at. And, well.

THIS NEXT EXPERIMENT SEEMS VERY VERY INTERESTING

I'll see you all again when Chapters 3, 4, and 5 are out. :)

#deltarune #deltarune spoilers #ralsei #kris dreemurr #gaster #rambling #long post

7 notes · View notes

springbloggy · 2 months

Text

The ultimate Knight Burgerpants theory

So... I am starting to believe that Burgerpants might be a more valid candidate for the knight than I thought. This is more of a loose sort of presentation than a theory, but I will try to make it as coherent as possible. Sit back as we discuss this extremely bizarre theory.

If you want the full unhinged Springy experience of this theory, you can listen to this song while you read as it was stuck in my head as I was coming up with this theory (maybe due to the scarily fitting lyrics).

youtube

Hope you enjoy!

What do we know about Burgerpants from Undertale and Deltarune?

First, let's dive into what we know about Burgerpants.

Burgerpants is a 19-year-old cat-like monster who works at the MTT Brand Burger Emporium, which can be found at the MTT Resort connected to the CORE. He is the last vendor found in Undertale, so he sells the most healing/powerful items in the game. Burgerpants doesn't like his job, so much so that he's relieved when he finds out that everyone in the Genocide Route is gone, presumably because it means he doesn't have to work anymore.

Huh? Everyone else is DEAD? ... Does that mean I don't have to work today? God. That it were true, little weirdo. That it were true.

Despite his supposedly soul-crushing job, Burgerpants is optimistic about becoming an actor, or at least getting another job flipping burgers under a different boss.

Little buddy! There's a brand new world out there waiting for us. I'm sure with my (ahem) qualifications, it won't be long before I'm a famous movie star... Or, maybe I'll just end up flipping burgers again. But it's as I say! Nowhere to go but up! Literally, in this case!

In the pacifist route, one can set him up to go out on a date with Catty and Bratty, suggesting that he may have a crush on them even though he doesn't want to admit it.

In Deltarune, he is known as Pizzapants because he works at the ICE-E Pizza instead of the MTT Burger Emporium, which is related to his Undertale backstory and may be the same or similar in Deltarune.

So I went out to the alley to see those two ladies, and uh... you know, see what'd happen next. ... Then my boss, uh, saw me and asked me what I was doing. I was so startled, the hamburgers in my pockets tumbled out onto the ground. Not wanting to lose face, I scrambled to pick them up! But, as I was leaning over, the weight of the remaining hamburgers... ... caused my pants to fall down. Then the girls laughed at me. Everyone calls me Burgerpants now.

Much like Burgerpants, Pizzapants hates his job and his coworkers, but there are a few differences. He's not seen smoking, which could be an indicator that he hates ICE-E's at least marginally less than MTT Burger, and he's good friends with Asriel. However, he still dreams of becoming an actor and doesn't want to work for ICE-E's forever, describing it as "hell".

Now, time to go into the little details that could point to a potential Knight Burgerpants.

Shopkeeper stuff

All of the shopkeepers in the games so far are either implied to be connected to Gaster in some way (Seam, Spamton) or have a greater understanding of the world around them (Seam again, Gerson, Temmie, if you count her as being based on a real person).

At first, Burgerpants doesn't seem to fit the mold, but if you look at a piece of dialogue in a certain way, there might be a case where he fits in with the other shopkeepers. In the Genocide Route, Burgerpants says this when you taunt him.

Sorry little weirdo, threats won't work on me. I can't go to hell, I'm all out of vacation days.

At first glance, the dialogue is pretty funny, however the first part where he acknowledges that threats don't work on him matches up with what Gerson says when you taunt him in the genocide route.

I've lived too long to be afraid of something like you. Try it, kiddo! ... I know you can't here. Wah ha... Knowledge like that is the only reason I've survived so long.

It's possible that Burgerpants, like Gerson, has a greater understanding that his position as a burger salesman is actually what keeps him safe. As much as he hates his job, the lack of vacation days actually benefits him.

The fact that no one bothered to tell him to evacuate could also fit the "forgotten" motif of Deltarune, as it can be interpreted that no one told Burgerpants what was happening simply because they forgot he existed.

Frisk telling Burgerpants to go to hell is also kind of interesting in a multi-layered way. It's not implied that Frisk says this or anything like it to the other characters in the genocide route, which could mean that Frisk has some sort of weird additional reason for hating Burgerpants besides wanting to murder everyone and Burgerpants being inaccessible. Hell is also associated with the Devil, which fits with Gaster's 6 motif. There is also the fact that Burgerpants works near the CORE, a hot, lava-filled place reminiscent of Hell that was the home of Gaster's many experiments.

Connections to ICE-E's

ICE-E's is one of the stranger aspects of Deltarune; for a seemingly unimportant chain of pizzerias, there is much to suggest that the place may be more important than it first appears.

A picture of ICE-E can be seen gratified in the Dark World.

ICE-E's Pain Chart expression can be seen in a children's word search in Undertale, next to a FUN event with a snowman version of ICE-E labeled "Nightmare".

The Spamton Sweepstakes also mentions a story Noelle told about how she believes ICE-E is a cryptid, as well as a story she told about how an ICE-E pizza box winked at her, causing Dess to burn the box and Kris to bury the remains. Kris also told Noelle about how they saw ICE-E "eating children", which caused Dess to hit them with a wiffle bat for lying, but Kris is still acting like they really saw it years later.

The fact that Burgerpants works at ICE-E's puts him in the spotlight, as he is a pre-existing and well-known character from Undertale. In a future hypothetical dark world based on ICE-E's, Burgerpants could become important; many theorize that he could become a potential party member, but Toby could pull the rug out from under the players and reveal Burgerpants as the boss.

It's also interesting to note that Burgerpants calls ICE-E's hell. This is in contrast to his infamous quote in Undertale that he can't "go to hell".

By becoming the Knight, one of Burgerpants' motives might be to "get out of hell". How does one get out of hell? By either redeeming oneself or making a deal with the Devil.

Puppet/Cat Elemental Pair

Elemental Pairs are a hidden property in Deltarune that are assigned to some enemy bullet patterns and party armor. Players would normally discover them through Spamton's dialog.

HAVEN'T YOU HEARD OF [elemental pairs]!? WITH AN [Valuable item], YOU CAN DEFEND AGAINST [Puppet/Cat], OR [Thunder/Light], [Dark/Star]… JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE [$#&*] THAT USE [Death/Scythe]!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!!

In the game's code, the Puppet/Cat elemental pair is the 6th element and is assigned to Spamton NEO, Tasque Manager, and Tasque. Two of the characters are cat-like species, while Spamton is tied to Gaster, a character associated with the number 6.

Gaster himself has been associated with cats since Undertale, as Gaster Follower #1 is a small head and cat-like monster. The follower is infamous for telling the story of how Gaster split across space and time, and how he holds a piece of Gaster in his hand.

youtube

There are two ways to interpret the sprite, one is that the head is the "Piece of Gaster" and the cat monster is holding it. The other is that the cat monster is the piece of Gaster. If the head is the piece, it means that the cat has lost control of its own body because the head speaks for it. If the piece is the cat, then the cat-Gaster is stuck forever in a statue-like state in a laughing pose.

So what does Burgerpants have to do with this elemental pairing? First of all, Burgerpants is a cat-like monster, which fits the motif so far. But more interestingly, as a fast-food worker and an unplayable NPC, he would fit the puppet motif, since he has to work for another power and is programmed to do so. If Burgerpants really was the Knight and was working for/under another power, then that would reinforce the puppet motif.

Other examples of potential Burgerpants Knight Foreshadowing

Burgerpants taking off the head of the ICE-E costume head and saying "It's me, little buddy!" could be a similar setup to Flowey introducing himself and then echoing that in the pacifist ending where he is revealed to be Asriel.

Spamton quotes Burgerpants (or maybe Burgerpant's boss/Frisk) when discussing the Knight.

Seam warns about not visiting the dark world at night time.

...By the by, it's growing late, isn't it? You should hurry home once you finish your business here. You don't want to get caught when the sun goes down...

This could be because the Knight visits and creates dark worlds at night, which is theoretically when Burgerpants' shift would end.

Burgerpants' dream of being an actor actually matches what the Knight is - an ordinary Lightner pretending to be a great and powerful Knight.

Burgerpants is one of the few "unimportant" characters to write Valentine's Day cards, and he is also the only card writer who is outwardly negative, as even the cards from enemies and bosses are tame.

The Knight has no known motive, and no one knows the Knight's true identity. Pizzapants has no known origin as to how he got the nickname Pizzapants in Deltarune, Catty and Bratty aren't friends in Deltarune, so it's probably not the same backstory as in Undertale. Pizza/Burgerpants' real name also remains unknown, so if he is a Knight, it could be a double reveal of not only the Knight's identity, but also Burgerpants' real name.

The Knight is often referred to as the "Strange Knight," and it may be that Burgerpants' strange characteristics, or his ICE-E costume that transforms into a bizarre suit of armor when he enters the Dark World, are what make the Knight so "strange".

Toby said that the ending was based on a fever dream, and having a fast food worker be the cause of the end of the world would totally fit a fever dream scenario.

Potential Motives

I think Burgerpants would have the simplest of motives. He is tired of being bossed around and working a menial job. Creating and influencing dark worlds is the closest he can get to the true freedom and control that his life lacks. Burgerpants also feels that his life has been wasted, and becoming the Knight will give him a chance to live it to the fullest.

I'm getting on in years, so let me give you some advice, little buddy. You've still got time. Don't live like me. I'm 19 years old and I've already wasted my entire life.

In fact, one of the first things you learn about the Knight is that he locked up the other kings and put the current king in place. I've noticed with most knight theories, most people ignore or rewrite this detail, as it wouldn't make sense with their candidate of choice. However, Seam backs up this story, and I don't think he's the kind of person to lie about a story like this, or at least get the wrong impression of what had happened.

This is why having Burgerpants as the knight actually kind of makes some sense. Why is that? Because by putting the King in order, Burgerpants not only gets to choose his own boss, something he couldn't do before, but he also gets to subject others to the same treatment he had as some sort of power fantasy. Now Burgerpants gets to be the powerful boss, giving orders and having people cower for him.

A common misconception is that all Superbosses lose control and must gain freedom due to Spamton's situation. Jevil, however, may prove this assumption wrong. Unlike Spamton, whose primary goal is to gain freedom, Jevil has an "I can do anything" attitude about his situation. Even though he is imprisoned, Jevil believes that he is more free than those outside his cell.

So what is happening with the Superbosses? Well, I think the Superbosses operate under a sort of "give one - take one" system, intentionally or not. Basically, Gaster gives the Superbosses the information they need to achieve their goals - freedom for Jevil, becoming a great salesman for Spamton - but he also takes something away from them. Social status and/or mental state for Jevil and control for Spamton.

Assuming that Gaster is working with the Knight, the Knight would gain the ability to create any Dark World in any location he wants and the ability to have massive influence in that world, but eventually the real world will be taken away from him and destroyed by the Roaring. As an additional consequence, the Superbosses and Knight will eventually be forced to learn the true nature of their world and be driven mad by it. The Knight may not have reached this point yet, but he will by the end of the game.

By becoming a Knight, Burgerpants has the freedom to become a powerful figure, to be his own boss, and to receive love and recognition from others that he may not fully receive in the Light World. Burgerpants, assuming he knows about it as the Knight, is one of the few characters who wouldn't mind a potential Roaring. Either because he knows he would lose his job if the world ends and thus never have to work again and never see people he dislikes again, or because he has been promised/believes that with the Roaring he can recreate the world any way he wants. A world where he can become a famous actor loved by everyone and/or a powerful ruler like he became in the Dark Worlds.

It's also possible that Burgerpants' motives are actually admirable. Burgerpants may want to be the hero for a long-standing cold case, that of Dess' disappearance. Then he can gain the fame that might lead to him being hired as an actor. However, I think the case that his motives are tied to his dead-end job and his low feelings for others is a stronger argument for potential motives, as it could show how all Dark World adventures are ultimately self-sufficient. Or it could be a great contrast to how Kris' adventures are about friendship (in the non-Snowgrave route), but the Knight's are self-centered.

In any case, a Knight Burgerpants might actually be terrifying to fight, because Burgerpants would be the character most unhinged and relentless enough to put up an extreme fight to keep his dream world going.

Conclusion?

In conclusion, Burgerpants may be an unlikely candidate for the Knight, but the case for him is hopefully compelling and interesting enough to warrant further consideration.

#deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune meta #undertale theory #utdr theory #undertale meta #undertale #burgerpants #deltarune knight #deltarune lore #deltarune predictions #long post #springy thoughts #believe me i thought about the horrors™ of knight burgerpants for several minutes after writing the initial draft #might be the only knight candidate that actually legitimately scares me

14 notes · View notes