#and i didn't even go into the s14 stuff that has Cas becoming the master via his education of jack i mean...

[ananke-xiii]

questions I have about "Lily Sunders has Some Regrets":

Ishim and Mirabel say Cas was careless with his former vessel. What happened? Was the vessel Jimmy Novak's great-grea-something? Did she die? Did Cas leave? What was going on? Inquiring minds want to know.

It was previously established that angels know when a nephilim comes into being so why didn't they know about the one they were supposed to kill? They should've known it was a trap, right? Why oh why.

What was going on inside Benjamin's mind? He was in love with his vessel and yet he doesn't like earth nor reacts to Akobel saying stuff like "how could you know [humans] and not love them?". Bro, he's literally talking about you.

I really really want to know about the beef between Ishim and Akobel. Like, was Akobel in love with Lily too? Wtf happened? Why did he choose to protect her against Ishim? Also, was he a fallen angel? How was it possible for him to live on earth with a human without falling? Was Noemi ever after him? I wanna imagine all the hot gossip circulating among angels and I just can't because apparently they didn't know shit or even if they did they just obeyed orders so no question was actually asked. Grrr.

How did Lily discover and master Enochian magic? It's such a badass addition to the lore, it's a shame they only used it again in s14.

Why do they keep using "goo" imagery for Cas? "Castiel when did you become so gooey?"

And the sad thing is that I could go on. Really, people want a spn s16, I want a spn spin-off about angels because THEY.ARE.CRAZY.AND.I.LOVE.THEM.

#spn #supernatural #castiel #spn rewatch #spn season 12 #lily sunder has some regrets #spn s12

[mittensmorgul]

Has Chuck ever talked about why he brought Cas back? I'm watching The Man Who Would Be King and it's a massive point of contingency. Cas is clearly important to God, has that ever been brought back up?

Hi there... I don’t really get what the second message has to do with the first, but I’m gonna try to reply to both of these things, because these are two fundamentally unrelated issues. At least, I believe this is also a message from you, but please correct me if I’m wrong. Sometimes it’s really hard to tell if two messages are supposed to go together in the inbox when they’re both from anons:

In that same season Let It Bleed shows Dean asking Cas to erase the memories of Lisa and Ben and that's like Cas' ultimate skill as an angel Stripping Memory and he did for Dean Just Like That. My Chuck has anything been addressed for Cas since season 6?

I think this is the only thing that Chuck has canonically said about the fact he kept bringing Cas back, and it was uttered during one of his lil tantrums in 11.20, while Metatron was prodding him into Doing The Right Thing for all of creation:

Chuck: You know I love those guys, but the world would still be spinning with demon Dean in it. But Sam couldn't have that, though, could he? And so how is Amara being out on me?Metatron: It's not. But you helped the Winchesters before.Chuck: Helped them? I've saved them! I've rebuilt Castiel more times than I can remember. Look where that got me.Metatron: So you're just gonna let Amara win?Chuck: Eh, it's her time to shine.

Chuck was still actively deflecting any responsibility for the Darkness. As if this ENTIRE problem didn’t directly spring from his initial act of locking her away in the first place. Granted, we wouldn’t have had Creation at all if he hadn’t, but he’d been willing to just sequester himself off in his little private bar at the end of all things while the rest of the universe crumbled around him rather than confront any of that. It was easier for him to just blame everyone else for... everything else... as if the problem hadn’t been his own refusal to deal with the fact that he was only one side of this Creation Coin, you know? It took the catalyst of Dean Winchester to bring those two sides together eventually in 11.23.

But getting back to your point... No, Chuck has never said directly, “I specifically and factually continued to resurrect Cas for these explicit purposes,” and then given us a bullet-pointed list.

Because your second question (and I think it’s yours, again) refers to something in 6.21 as being in “the same season” that Chuck resurrected Cas... but he first resurrected Cas in 5.01, after Raphael had exploded him in 4.22 (which happened offscreen, but we were TOLD it happened, by Chuck in 5.01.

Given what we know about the Empty, and the fact it’s where angels go when they die, and the fact that we know now that Jimmy died in 4.22 and went to Heaven and has been there ever since despite Cas having been resurrected in a replacement Jimmy Suit in 5.01... I think it’s safe to assume that Chuck (since he’d been literally standing RIGHT THERE when Cas went kablooie) held Cas in some sort of stasis, waiting to see what happened next. Remember, they’d been making it up as they went. NONE of what happened at the end of 4.22 and after that had been part of Chuck’s Grand Plan. It wasn’t in the script. It was something he hadn’t expected, and yet... it happened.

I don’t think he initially had a definite plan to resurrect Cas, but it had been one of the options he’d held open for himself. Cas had done something INTERESTING to him. He was an angel who demonstrated an act of rebellion and free will-- not the way Lucifer had by wanting to destroy and corrupt humanity, but out of love for Humanity and creation itself. Cas wanted to save the world from Chuck’s destined apocalypse. And Chuck being a shrewd creator, he plucked Cas out of the air before he could be zapped off to the Empty, knowing that such an Angel was an anomaly, and that he might just have a bigger part to play in the salvation of Creation.

In 6.20, I believe the scene you’re referring to is this one:

CASTIEL I was...done. I was over. And then the most extraordinary thing happened. I was put back. (Castiel stands behind Dean, beaten bloody by Lucifer) And we had won. We stopped Armageddon. (Castiel heals Dean) But at a terrible cost. (Castiel heals Bobby)(flashback to very end of 'Swan Song')EXT. OUTSIDE OF LISA BRAEDEN'S HOUSE - NIGHT(Sam stands under the streetlight, which flickers and dies, watching Dean inside Lisa's house. Castiel watches Sam.)CASTIEL And so I knew what I had to do next. Once again, I went to Harrow Hell, to free Sam from Lucifer's cage. It was nearly impossible, but I was so full of confidence, of mission. I see now that was arrogance...Hubris...Because, of course, I hadn't truly raised Sam -- not all of him.(flashback to 'Unforgiven': Sam is beating a cop unconscious; flashback to 'Live Free or Twi-Hard': Sam watches Dean being turned; flashback to 'Appointment in Samarra': Sam raises his dagger to stab Bobby) Sometimes we're lucky enough to be given a warning. (back in front of Lisa's house, Sam turns and walks away- directly past Castiel) This should have been mine.

But this was actually his SECOND resurrection. He was also speaking from a place of desperation, at his lowest point to date, knowing he was about to make A Huge Choice and desperately looking for ANY sort of guidance. It’s like he KNEW he’d already made a mistake, and couldn’t see any way out of this dire, horrific circumstance other than to just... keep pushing through and hope everything worked out in the end. He was trying to save the universe, again, single-handedly. And EVERYTHING was failing. He’d failed to protect Dean, he’d failed to resurrect Sam properly, he’d failed and failed and failed.

Like he said in 12.19, he NEEDED a win, he needed to return to Dean already having secured a win, to prove his own worth. He’s been dealing with this issue, this personal struggle, since he first discovered those Doorways To Doubt way back in s4.

In 7.23, also at a place of Lowest Depression, he had this to say about his continued resurrections:

CASTIEL: If we attack Dick and fail, then you and Sam die heroically, correct?DEAN: I don't know. I guess.CASTIEL: And at best, I die trying to fix my own stupid mistake. Or... I don't die – I'm brought back again. I see now. It's a punishment resurrection. It's worse every time.DEAN: I'm sorry. Uh, we're talking about God crap, right?CASTIEL: I'm not good luck, Dean.DEAN: Yeah, but you know what? Bottom of the ninth, and you're the only guy left on the bench... Sorry, but I'd rather have you, cursed or not. And anyway, nut up, all right? We're all cursed. I seem like good luck to you? [CASTIEL stares at DEAN.] What?CASTIEL: Well, I don't want to make you uncomfortable, but I detect a note of forgiveness.DEAN: Yeah, well, I'm probably gonna die tomorrow, so...CASTIEL: Well, I'll go with you. And I'll do my best.

He was in such a low place that he sincerely believed he’d been repeatedly resurrected as a “punishment,” because he couldn’t see past his own guilt and trauma. But again, Dean held out a hand and offered him a different viewpoint. It was the first step toward Cas being able to forgive himself and move forward. He could finally begin “redeeming himself” in Dean’s eyes, which he’d promised back in 7.01. And that’s sort of the journey he’s been on ever since.

He’s been through a number of rough patches along the way, leading him to say Yes to Lucifer in 11.10, leading him to try to spare Sam and Dean from having to kill Kelly in 12.15-12.19, ultimately leading to his death (again! but the first death that Chuck hadn’t been standing by to catch him from and stop him from ever reaching the Empty) in 12.23.

For the first time, it was Cas HIMSELF that fought for his own resurrection, in which his own agency is what brought him back. He fought for HIMSELF.

*scrolls back up because I can’t even remember the question at this point...*

Aah, right... “Has anything been addressed for Cas since s6?” Um.. yes? Loads and loads? Which is why I have no idea how the second half of your question relates to the first...

I’ve barely scraped the tip of the iceberg here on that ONE issue, so short of writing a thesis on the narrative evolution of Castiel as a character that could probably span at least a trilogy of scholarly tomes, I don’t really know what else to say here... I’m honestly baffled that anyone could suggest that they’ve just not addressed Cas’s issues since s6, and wondering if we’re watching the same show.

#spn 6.20 #spn 4.22 #spn 5.01 #spn 6.21 #spn 7.01 #spn 7.23 #spn 11.20 #spn 11.10 #spn 12.15 #spn 12.19 #spn 12.23 #spn 13.04 #spn 13.06 #and i didn't even go into the s14 stuff that has Cas becoming the master via his education of jack i mean... #you learned it from the goats #castiel winchester #i am an honestly baffled mitten #if you say 'mysterious ways' so help me i will kick your ass #Anonymous