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ptergwen · 4 years

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let’s just pretend

w/c: 3.5k

warnings: rom com references, drinking, and a little bit of angst

summary: you cope with your feelings for peter by getting drunk on halloween

a/n: ok i really really love this and i loved writing it too? it’s the first like original idea i’ve had in a while so maybe that’s why but yeah i hope y’all enjoy and that this puts you in a halloweenish mood :-)

there’s something about fall that makes you nostalgic. the same images pop into your head whenever you hear the word october. pumpkin patches, colorful leaves, and hot coffee. it reminds you of being a kid. only when you were a kid, all you could think about this time of year was what you were going to be for halloween.

you’d spend weeks getting your costume together and coordinating with all your friends. trick or treating was literally the only thing that mattered. if you wanted to get good candy, you had to have a good costume.

the high school version of candy is alcohol. everyone just goes to parties so they can drink the whole night. no one even dresses up usually. you personally would rather have chocolate than cheap beer. your whole friend group agrees on that.

that’s why you decided to throw your own party this year. anyone who misses the old halloween can come hang out. so far it’s only peter, mj, ned, betty, and the rest of the decathlon team coming. betty invited everyone for you. she also asked liz, but she’s going to flash’s party. he only gets so many people because his parents are never home and don’t care if he raids the liquor cabinet. whatever.

you’re out finding something to wear with peter and mj a few hours before it starts. ned and betty already picked their costumes. she’s going as an angel, and he’s going as the devil. you think they should switch. they’re out shopping for snacks while the three of you hit up spirit halloween.

mj groans every single second there’s silence, and peter keeps getting scared by the motion sensor decorations. he eventually ends up having to go somewhere in the store that doesn’t have any. so, it’s a lot.

“why don’t you be a vampire?” mj asks in her fake interested voice, taking a pair of fangs off the rack in front of her. you scoff. “i think i did that in sixth grade.” she puts them back with a huff. “witch?” she’s just suggesting every costume she sees so you can get out of here. her lack of enthusiasm makes you want to take longer.

“no.”

“zookeeper?”

“eh.”

“what about cat in the hat?”

“mj, what? no.”

“uh... school girl?”

“ok, that’s just offensive.”

“you’re right. why do they have that?” she eyes the costume suspiciously. you cover it up with a random cloak that fell onto the floor. you’re never going to find anything at this point. maybe it’s a sign you’re too old for this. just when you’re about to lose all hope, peter comes over.

he’s holding up the plaid yellow skirt and blazer cher wears in clueless. it’s one of the most iconic rom com outfits. you grab it with a gasp, peter giving you a knowing smile. “oh my god! wait, where did you find this?” “they have a section with movie stuff.” there’s a han solo costume in his other hand.

you throw an arm around his neck for a quick hug. peter squeezes you and chuckles when he pulls away. it gets a sigh out of mj.

“sure you don’t wanna be the guy she ends up with?” she elbows peter’s arm. the two of you share a disgusted look. “josh? ew, he’s her ex stepbrother,” you dismiss her. “they’re, like, related,” peter adds. mj rolls her eyes almost to the back of her head and starts to walk away. “someone needs to unplug both of your tv’s.” you and peter follow after her.

of course she would suggest a couple’s costume. she was probably trying to make you both get weird. you’re always being teased for spending so much time together. even your parents and may make little comments about it. you can’t help the fact that you have almost everything in common.

peter is the only person your age who doesn’t try so hard to be cool. when you’re with him, you can be the biggest nerd and wear fluffy pajamas and play with legos. it’s a judgement free friendship.

you’ll admit you’ve wanted it to become a judgement free relationship. there’s no way he doesn’t feel your heart beating against him when you cuddle during movie nights. he has to notice your goofy smile whenever he calls you a nickname.

but, it could all be platonic in peter’s mind. maybe he sees you as more of a sister. that would make josh the perfect costume to go with you as cher.

you shutter and try to push the idea out of your mind for the rest of your time at spirit halloween.

it’s almost time for the party to start when you get back to your house. your parents let betty and ned in to start setting up on their way out. they’re going for dinner so they aren’t around to embarrass you. you have until midnight, then there’s nothing you can do. that gives you four hours.

mj is changing into the coraline costume you made her get, which she actually doesn’t hate. betty is helping you do some last minute decorating. peter and ned are putting out snacks. it’s a really good system you have.

“love the the plaid, y/n. you look so fetch!” betty compliments in between throwing fake cobwebs over your couch. you snort and finish stringing up some lights. “wrong movie, but thanks.” “oh. oops,” she shrugs and gets back to cobwebbing. “peter found it for me.” all the lights are up, so you go to plug them in. betty giggles on your way over.

your living room has an orange glow to it now. dusting your hands off, you admire your work. the moment of admiration ends when you notice how betty is looking at you. “what?” “peter found it for you,” she repeats suggestively. “when he was getting his costume, yeah,” you say like it’s nothing because it is nothing.

“so, what i’m hearing is he wanted to see you in a skirt.” you furrow your eyebrows at her. “what? no, he just-“ she wiggles her own eyebrows at you. you’re going to start sweating if you talk about this any longer. too aware of yourself now, you pull down your skirt and trudge over to the stairs. “i’m gonna go check on mj.”

you’re in the middle of convincing her she looks great and to leave your room when everyone calls your name downstairs.

“what?” you shout back from behind the closed door. “you should get down here.” it’s only peter this time. mj widens her eyes at you, but you’re gone before she can say she isn’t wearing this again.

you make your way down the stairs. the three of them are huddled in front of the door. “is someone here?” you mouth, ned looking off to the side awkwardly. they all move out of the way so you can see who it is. it’s flash. you’re obviously surprised to see him at your house, especially since he’s supposed to be having his own party right now.

“um, what are you doing here?” you try not to sound mean. “didn’t you invite the whole decathlon team? i’m on it.” you’d forgotten about that. peter says he’s only an alternate. flash side steps past you to get inside. you didn’t say he could come in. he heads straight to the chip bowl on your living room coffee table. you’re left shaking your head in pure confusion.

“dude, kick him out,” ned whispers to you. you wave your hand dismissively and walk over. he’s kicking his legs up on the table when you get there. “dope outfit. you look good.” he winks and crunches on a tostito. peter is clenching his jaw, but no one sees. “why are you in my house, flash?” you push the bowl away from him. “oh, yeah. my parents came home from vegas early.”

mj finally gets downstairs, squinting at whatever is going on with you while she walks over to everyone else. “i thought we could combine parties.” flash eyes your friends in a way you don’t like. “all your guests are pretty much here, so don’t worry about space.”

you look back at peter to see what he thinks. he shakes his head no. betty is nodding her head so fast you’re pretty sure she’s going to get whiplash. ned agrees with whatever she thinks, and mj doesn’t care. majority rules. plus, you could use one of flash’s playlists to liven things up. how bad could it really be?

“text everyone my address.”

people are flooding your house in the next fifteen minutes. like, your entire grade might be here. flash hooks his phone up to your speakers and blasts his songs. people grab fistfuls of candy and dance around. you’re running low on soda, but one guy brought extra drinks. alcoholic drinks, which you’re uneasy about. that was a big reason why you wanted to have your own party in the first place.

you don’t want to be a lame host, so you let it slide. a girl is sitting on top of your kitchen counter making out with someone. people are yelling so loud you can’t make out a single conversation. this is all going on and yet somehow, the most surprising thing is that they came in costume. some are more casual, like cat ears and lifeguard hoodies. it still counts.

feeling a little bit lost in your own house, you search for peter. he’s sitting on the top stair just watching what’s going on. you get his attention by throwing a mini packet of sour patch kids at him. he catches it, grinning when he realizes you did that. “i love these.” “good. they were the only ones left.” you take a seat next to him and scratch at the material of his vest for emphasis.

“i can’t believe you said yes to him.” peter opens the sour patch kids. the first one is yellow, so he offers it to you. sharing food with him always works because you each seem to like what the other doesn’t. “neither can i, but i think betty would’ve actually hurt me if i didn’t,” you joke while chewing. he rolls his eyes, but he’s still smiling. “please. she’s too nice.”

you lean your head on peter’s shoulder and grab another gummy. he pokes your arm in protest. “this bag is small. get your own.” you’re nuzzling your cheek against him. “i told you they’re gone.” he’s about to put an arm around you when someone screams downstairs. you quickly sit up.

“i’m gonna go see what the hell that was. i’ll find you later?” peter does his best to hide his disappointment. “yeah, of course. good luck.” you clench your teeth and run down the stairs. this is somehow flash’s fault.

it’s been an hour and a half, and peter is nowhere to be seen. the chaos was just that someone really liked the song that was playing. it didn’t take you long to figure that out. when you went to tell peter, he was gone. you’ve looked everywhere for him since, except the backyard.

a pretty big group of people is out here either playing catch or talking. someone also brought a case of beer outside. you spot mj huddled up by the fence with a bottle. it doesn’t necessarily surprise you. it’s weird to see, either way.

“have you seen peter?” you walk up to her. she uses the bottle to gesture somewhere. he’s in the middle of a conversation with liz. your entire body feels like it’s collapsing into itself. it didn’t cross your mind she would be coming even when the party moved to your house.

she’s nice and all. you don’t have any issues with her. not that she knows about, at least. peter had the biggest crush on her for about a month, then it fizzled out. that’s what he told you. unless, he said that to save face.

you’re speechless. mj figured you would be. she gives you a sympathetic smile and holds out her beer. “yep. drink up.” your instincts tell you to take it, so you do. she heads back inside and leaves you alone with your thoughts. that’s not good for you. the only to way to get rid of them is by chugging the rest of this bottle.

you’ve never had your own drink before, and technically you aren’t now. this is still the most alcohol you’ll ever have in your system. before you can change your mind, you take a generous swig. it’s bitter. you don’t hate it as much as you expected to, though.

your eyes land on liz touching peter’s shoulder. that inspires your next big gulp of beer. you finish off the rest, and it hits you fast. you’re understanding why this is such a popular vice. you don’t feel anything but how tipsy you are. light and floaty. you decide to stumble back into the kitchen and find out what other drinks people brought.

the bright color of your costume catches peter’s attention. he was wondering where you were. excusing himself from liz, he follows you in. you bump into betty on your way to the punch bowl someone filled. she’s holding a red solo cup with the mystery liquid. both of you buzzed, you laugh and grab her arm.

“sorry. s- sorry.” you’re squeezing behind her, her angel wings brushing against your face in the process. you have to weave through everyone to make it to the drink table. peter meets you there when you’re getting a cup. he’s shocked.

“y/n?” smiling lazily, you take a sip. “hey, peter. pete.” the sober voice in your head tells you to stop talking. he probably shouldn’t know you’re drunk. then again, your cup gives it away. “y/n, have you been drinking?” he sounds concerned. everything is funny to you right now. you giggle out a “yes.”

peter doesn’t want to be that person, but you’re not acting right. he reaches for your drink. you pull it away too abruptly, and some of it spills onto the floor. “you... you’re so...“ you start losing your balance. “woah.” peter wraps an arm around your waist to steady you. he takes the drink out of your hand and sets it on the table.

frowning, he throws your arm around his shoulders so he can help you get upstairs. “come on, y/n/n.” you don’t argue this time. you’re at the part of being drunk where it doesn’t feel good anymore. peter holds you close to his side and walks you out of the kitchen. he stops to talk to ned for a second.

“hey, man. y/n’s parents are gonna be home soon. could you get everyone out?” he says into his ear. “why can’t she do it?” peter moves out of the way so he’s not blocking you. ned sees. you’re completely faded. “oh, shit. is she okay?” he whisper yells. “i’m gonna take care of her.” “i’ll tell everyone to go.” peter presses his lips into a tight smile, then he’s taking you up to your room.

you flop down onto your bed face first. peter shuts the door behind you. “you okay?” he chuckles, you nodding with your face smushed into the comforter. he’d think it was cute if you weren’t piss drunk. gently nudging you, he moves you so you’re on your back.

“let’s get you out of this.” “ooh, betty was right. you do like me in a skirt,” you giggle and bat your eyelashes at him. he huffs. “no, i mean you have to put on pajamas.” you’re pouting now. “you don’t like me in a skirt?” after going through your drawers, he comes back over with a big t-shirt and fuzzy pants. “i never said that.”

you grin again and grab them from him. “ha.” “do you need help changing?” he sits at the edge of your bed. you’re still laying down. he’s not sure you can handle getting up. “no. don’t be creepy,” you say completely serious. peter has to remind himself you’re drunk. “you were the one who thought i wanted you naked, but ok.”

making peter close his eyes, you peel the costume off your body. you got pretty sweaty. you kick everything onto the floor and start putting on your pajamas. your head gets stuck in an arm hole by accident, so peter has to fix that. the rest is fine. he’s about to bring you into the bathroom to brush your teeth, but you face plant into his lap. you’re out.

the next morning, you wake up feeling like ass. your breath is hot and tastes disgusting. your head is pounding. you could throw up. you’re not even sure how you ended up in your bed. then, you notice peter sitting at your desk. he must have helped you in.

a vague memory of him tucking you under the covers while you whined comes back to you, along with a few others. one of them is of him and liz. the whole reason you did this to yourself.

“hey.” your voice comes out hoarse. “hi.” peter nods and points to your night table. there’s a fresh glass of water. you drink it all down as fast as humanely possible, a hand on your heart. it doesn’t phase him after what you did last night. you set the empty glass down and pat the spot next to you. peter sits by your side.

he’s still dressed as han solo, but his vest and belt are sprawled out on the floor. the boots are under your desk. he actually stayed all night for you.

“i think i’m hungover.” you rest your head against his arm. his body relaxes. “you didn’t drink that much. mj said she gave you half a beer,” he almost laughs, you groaning. “that means i’m a lightweight.” “for now.” your arm wrapping around his, you look up at him.

“sorry you had to deal with me. am i in trouble?” “nah, your parents don’t know. we cleaned everything up before they got home.” he lightly pats the top of your head with two fingers. you squeeze your eyes shut when he does it. “you did? thank you so much, wow.” peter nods and smiles for a second.

he lays his back against the pillow on his side. “let’s just pretend that never happened.” “you’re good at pretending,” you mumble to yourself. you’re not as quiet as you think because peter hears it. “um, what?” you feel too woozy to come up with a cover. letting out a breath, you take your head and hands off of him.

“i saw you talking with liz.” “she wanted to know if i could lead decathlon practice next week. she’s not gonna be in school,” he says slowly, not getting it. “why?” having to spell it out is making you frustrated. “didn’t you say you don’t like her anymore?” “yeah, i don’t.”

“so, why was she being all... touchy?” the jealousy is clear in your voice. peter shrugs. “that’s how liz is. i still don’t get why it matters.” you ease yourself to sit up and turn to face him. those three words you’ve been meaning to tell him are on the absolute tip of your tongue. they’re about to come out.

then...

“i like you, y/n.”

peter says them for you.

you’re so surprised you nearly vomit for real. or, it could be the possible hangover. almost a minute has gone by when you realize you’ve been sitting there with your mouth hanging open. you swallow your spit. “you... you do?” “a lot. i kept trying to tell you, but there was never a good time.” his voice is softer now.

“i realized after homecoming. i wished i went with you instead of...” he doesn’t have to finish the sentence. you nod, a small smile spreading across your face. peter’s eyes are so hopeful. “i like you, too. a lot.” your gaze trails down to his lips.

“i’d kiss you if my breath didn’t stink.” “i’ll let you owe me one.” he’s fully grinning now, and both of you laugh. they’re the kind of laughs you do because you’re so happy you don’t know what to say.

peter presses his lips to your temple, your eyes fluttering closed. “get some more sleep. i’m gonna ask you out when you wake up,” he mumbles against your hair. you grab his hand that’s resting on the comforter. “can you stay with me?” “of course.”

he lays down next to you. you pull back the covers so he can get under them. your head is resting on his chest, an arm around his torso. both of his hug your waist. you’re instantly comfortable cuddled up in his embrace. you drift off to sleep with a smile.

this feels like such a dream. it’s the exact type of situation you’d make up in your head. but, it’s real. peter is still holding you when you wake up. he’s not going anywhere.

#tom holland #peter parker fluff #peter parker imagine #tom holland smut #tom holland fluff #peter parker smut #tom holland x reader

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papermoonloveslucy · 4 years

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MARILYN MONROE

June 1, 1926 - August 4, 1962

Marilyn Monroe (born Norma Jeane Mortenson) was an actress, model, and singer. Famous for playing comedic "blonde bombshell" characters, she became one of the most popular sex symbols of the 1950s and early 1960s and was emblematic of the era's changing attitudes towards sexuality. She was a top-billed actress for only a decade, but her films grossed $200 million by the time of her death in 1962. More than half a century later, she continues to be a major popular culture icon.

"When I was five I think, that's when I started wanting to be an actress. I didn't like the world around me because it was kind of grim, but I loved to play house. When I heard that this was acting, I said that's what I want to be. Some of my foster families used to send me to the movies to get me out of the house and there I'd sit all day and way into the night. Up in front, there with the screen so big, a little kid all alone, and I loved it.” ~ Marilyn Monroe,1962

Lucille Ball never worked with Marilyn Monroe, but meet her in 1953 at Ciro’s Nightclub on Sunset Strip, along with Betty Grable, and Red Skelton. Monroe’s immense popularity permeated Ball’s work none-the-less.

At the start of “Changing the Boys’ Wardrobe” (ILL S3;E10) the gang is heading to the movies to see “That picture we’ve been trying to get to for weeks with Marilyn Monroe.” The movie is likely Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, which premiered in New York City in July 1953. On November 5, 1953, the same day the episode was filmed, Monroe’s new film How to Marry a Millionaire was released in the US.

The November 1953 cover of TV and Movie Screen Magazine saw Lucy (in “The Camping Trip”) and Marilyn wearing the dress she wore on the May 1953 cover of Life Magazine promoting Gentlemen Prefer Blondes.

Also on November 5, 1953, the town of Monroe, New York (60 miles from New York City) was temporarily renamed Marilyn Monroe.

The film later inspired much of the plot of “Second Honeymoon” (S5;E14), Lucy’s failed attempt to make their transatlantic crossing to Europe more than just a working vacation.

Monroe’s dinner companion turns out to be a seven year-old boy, just like Lucy’s ping pong partner turns out to be young Kenneth Hamilton (Harvey Grant).

Lucy gets stuck in a porthole just as Monroe did, also draping a blanket around her shoulders so passersby wouldn’t know what was really going on.

The idea for the burlap potato sack dresses in “Lucy Wants A Paris Gown” (ILL S5;E20) comes from Monroe’s real life.

In 1951 Marilyn Monroe took a series of high fashion photographs wearing a potato sack as a response to a journalist who said that she might look sexier in a burlap sack than her usual fashion choices.

Lucy first wore burlap at the end of “Mr. and Mrs. TV Show” (ILL S4;E24) as her scary version of a Phipps make-over.

In “Ricky’s Movie Offer” (ILL S4;E5) Lucy and Ethel argue about who looks more like Marilyn Monroe.

While Lucy has the facial features, Ethel has the blonde hair.

Fred (hilariously) settles the argument!

In “Ricky’s Screen Test” (ILL S4;E7) a long list of Hollywood names are dropped in anticipation of hobnobbing with celebrities, including Marilyn Monroe.

In “Lucy and Harpo Marx” (ILL S4;E28) Lucy wonders if Ethel might pass for Monroe to a near-sighted Carolyn Appleby. After Ethel tries to walk like Marilyn Monroe, Lucy decides that “nobody is that near-sighted!” Fred says that he looks more like Marilyn than either of them!

In “Lucy and Superman” (ILL S6;E13), the Appleby’s come over for a social evening that Ethel calls “the bore war” because the couples only talk about their children. As the scene opens, Caroline is in mid-sentence talking about a Marilyn Monroe film.

CAROLINE: “...and he picked up Marilyn Monroe, slung her over his shoulder and carried her off!”

Although the title is never mentioned, the film they are discussing is Bus Stop, starring Marilyn Monroe and Don Murray. It was released in August 1956, two and a half months before this episode was filmed.

When “Lucy Does the Tango” (ILL S6;E20), she stuffs eggs down her blouse and Ethel stashes a some in her back pockets. Lucy tells her, “Whatever you do don’t try to walk like Marilyn Monroe,” but the ‘yolk’ is on Ethel when Fred suddenly enters through the kitchen door!

In “Lucy the Gun Moll” (TLS S4;E25), Lucy plays Lucy Carmichael and Rusty Martin. The name Rusty Martin was probably derived from Lucy’s hair color and the surname of Mary Martin, who introduced the song “My Heart Belongs to Daddy” (music and lyrics by Cole Porter) in the 1938 Broadway musical Leave It to Me. Marilyn Monroe sang it in the 1960 film Let’s Make Love. In that same film, Harry Cheshire, who played Sam Johnson in “Oil Wells” (ILL S3;E18), played Monroe’s father. Jerry Hausner (Jerry, Ricky’s Agent) and Joan Banks (Reporter Eleanor Harris in “Fan Magazine Interview”) played uncredited supporting roles.

Lucy and Marilyn shared a leading man in handsome Keith Andes. Andes was Lucy’s male lead in Wildcat on Broadway, and later played was featured on three episodes of “The Lucy Show.”

In 1952, he played opposite Marilyn in Clash By Night, an RKO picture.

In “Lucy Gets Ricky on the Radio” (1952), the June 3, 1952 of Look Magazine actually had Lucille Ball and Marilyn Monroe on the cover! Monroe was promoting Clash by Night, and Desi had written a feature on his wife for the magazine. So Marilyn actually did appear on “I Love Lucy” - if only in a still photo.

Some Like It Hot (1959) is arguably one of Marilyn Monroe’s most popular films. What does it have in common with Lucille Ball? In 1958, both Lucy and Monroe were depicted at San Diego’s famous Del Coronado Hotel. It is the hotel that the Ricardo’s and Mertzes stay at in “Lucy Goes to Mexico” (LDCH S2;E1) as well as the backdrop for much of the film. Although Desilu filmed establishing footage of the hotel, the cast stayed in Hollywood, while Monroe went on location (as seen above). In “Lucy Goes to a Hollywood Premiere” (TLS S4;E20), Mr. Mooney says he wouldn’t buy a second hand nightie if it had been worn by Jack Lemmon in Some Like It Hot.

The Irving Berlin song “There’s No Business Like Show Business” was sung on “I Love Lucy” and “The Lucy Show.” Although it was originally from the Broadway musical Annie Get Your Gun (1946), it also served as the title and was performed (by Merman) in the Marilyn Monroe film There’s No Business Like Show Business in 1955.

In 1952, Marilyn co-starred by Richard Widmark (”The Tour” ILL S4;E30) in the film noir drama Don’t Bother To Knock. The film also featured “Lucy” players Lurene Tuttle (Fine Arts League President), Verna Felton (Mrs. Porter), Gloria Blondell (Grace Foster), as well as Harry Bartell, Olan Soule, Robert Foulke, and Bess Flowers.

That same year, Monroe starred in We’re Not Married! opposite Lucy’s friend and former co-star Ginger Rogers, as well as Eve Arden (”Hollywood at Last!”), Paul Douglas (”Lucy Wants a Career”) and Eddie Bracken (Too Many Girls).

One of Monroe’s most iconic moments came in March 1962 when she sang “Happy Birthday” as a birthday present to President John F. Kennedy in a public birthday celebration also attended by Lucy’s friends and co-stars Jack Benny, Jimmy Durante, Henry Fonda, Danny Kaye, Shirley MacLaine and Elliott Reid. A year later, Lucy Carmichael also gave Kennedy a present, a sugar cube replica of the White House on “The Lucy Show” with Elliott Reid doing Kennedy’s offstage voice as well as playing a small on-camera role!

"I never quite understood it, this sex symbol. I always thought symbols were those things you clash together! That's the trouble, a sex symbol becomes a thing. I just hate to be a thing. But if I'm going to be a symbol of something I'd rather have it sex than some other things they've got symbols of." ~ Marilyn Monroe, 1962

Monroe was married (and divorced) three times:

James Dougherty, Merchant Marine & Policeman (1942-46)

Joe DiMaggio, Baseball Player (1954-55)

Arthur Miller, Playwright (1956-61)

In “Lucy is Enceinte” (ILL S2;E10), Fred gives Lucy a signed baseball for his future 'godson’. When he asks Lucy to read out the signature, she at first says “Spalding,” the ball’s brand name, but then finds it is signed by Joe DiMaggio.

In “Ragtime Band” (ILL S6;E21), Little Ricky asks his Uncle Fred:

LITTLE RICKY: “Who’s Joe 'Maggio?” FRED: ��'Who’s Joe 'Maggio?’ You talk more like your father everyday.”

In “Sales Resistance” (ILL S2;E17), Lucy compares herself to Willy Loman, the title character in Death of a Salesman, a Pulitzer Prize-winning play by Arthur Miller first produced on Broadway in 1949 and made into an Oscar-nominated film in 1951.

Speaking of husbands, Desi Arnaz has something in common with Marilyn Monroe, too. Both of their souses were accused of being Communists by the House Un-American Activities Committee during the 1950s. Both Lucille and Arthur Miller were cleared of charges and their careers continued, although that was not true for many celebrities of the time.

Monroe died on August 4, 1962. The toxicology report showed that the cause of death was acute barbiturate poisoning. Empty medicine bottles were found next to her bed. The possibility that Monroe had accidentally overdosed was ruled out because the dosages found in her body were several times over the lethal limit.

The character of Ginger, the movie star castaway on “Gilligan’s Island” (1964-67) was described during casting as a combination of Lucille Ball and Marilyn Monroe. Tina Louise had Lucy’s red (ginger) hair and Monroe’s shapely physique. The series also featured Natalie Schafer (Phoebe Emerson) as Mrs. Howell, and Alan Hale Jr. as the Skipper. Hale performed on “The Lucy Show” and “Here’s Lucy”. Series creator Sherwood Schwartz was a Lucy fan. His brother Elroy Schwartz actually wrote scripts for Lucille Ball.

In the 2013 web-series “Ryan & Ruby” both Lucille Ball and Marilyn Monroe are given special thanks for their inspiration. The last name of star and creator Ryan Burton's character is "Carmichael", the same as Ball's character on the "The Lucy Show". In Ryan’s kitchen there are fridge magnets with photos of both Lucy and Marilyn.

Lucy and Marilyn are street characters at Universal Studios theme parks, their iconic hair and costumes making them instantly recognizable.

The same day Marilyn Monroe was born in 1926, another Hollywood icon with connections to Lucille Ball was also born, Andy Griffith. To read his birthday blog, click here!

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gay-robot · 4 years

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heres the entire plot of homestuck explained mostly

the story takes place over 4 (technically 5 counting the end) alternate universes, and starts in the 3rd one, but it makes more sense if we start from the beginning chronologically.

a race of humanoids called trolls who are basically just humans with grey skin, orange horns, multicolored blood, and varying degrees of psychic powers exist on a planet called beforus. things are relatively uneventful, until the abdicated heiress to an empire, meenah, discovers The Game(tm) on the moon.

the game, otherwise known as sburb (or sgrub to the trolls) exists to propagate the universe; a successful session of it creates a new universe entirely. it involves a server player manipulating the real environment of a client player to bring them into a type of pocket dimension called the medium aka the session aka the incipisphere whatever, point is, you get there. the client can then, from that dimension, host the server of another client and bring them into the same session, and so on; the trolls sessions have 12 players, and human sessions have 4. each player has their own ‘land’, a small planet vaguely themed around them with a unique poorly defined quest, but that doesnt come up too much so dont worry about it immediately. each player also has a unique mythological role consisting of a class and an aspect; there are 12 of each for a total of 144 possible combinations, for instance john egbert is the heir of breath. this not only defines their abilities, but also their personality and role in the story.

each session has a few constants: a ‘planet’ in the center called skaia, which is a bright ball of just sky, with clouds that show you visions of the future; at the center of it is the battlefield, a chessboard which gets bigger and more complicated as things go on. a session will also always contain prospit, a yellow planet that orbits close to skaia, and a purple planet called derse that orbits far away from it. in a game session, prospit and derse are at war, with derse seeking to destroy skaia and the battlefield by sending an asteroid belt into it; coincidentally, this also destroys the home planet of the players, as many asteroids are teleported into reality. in the sessions weve seen so far these asteroids also are used to paradoxically send baby versions of the players and their ancestors back in time but that isnt too important right now. each player has an alternate self called a dream self, which exists on one of the two planets (but doesnt have any bearing on their morality or allegiance, just personality). dream selves, along with the session itself, always exist alongside the normal universe before the game even begins, and under certain conditions your normal self will, when asleep, awake as your dream self and vice versa. in addition, a player who dies can be revived, but only as their dream self.

back to the plot; the beforus trolls aren’t very good at the game; in fact, they fail and spend a few years not being able to do anything until they discover a way to reset both their game and the universe itself, which will retroactively swap them with their ancestors as players and do some other things as well. they should logically not even exist anymore, but due to some shenanigans that happen in the 2nd universe, they exist as ghosts in a sort of afterlife formed by dreaming players whose dream selves are dead or missing. overall, only two of these 12 trolls are actually important to the plot, meenah and aranea.

this brings us to the second universe; beforus is now called alternia, and it is a considerably more violent and horrific place, with troll society being murderous as pretty much a standard. as you can imagine literally everyone is traumatized by this. the first 12 trolls to get introduced in the comic come from this timeline, and include funny lawyer girl terezi. there’s also a considerable amount of infighting, most of which is vriskas fault. she comes up later.

the 2nd troll session is considerably more successful than the 1st, and finishes the game creating a universe, though this new universe contains a “small” defect due to negligence on the part of the players. before the trolls can enter their new universe, however, they are unexpectedly attacked by an angry teleporting chess dog with wings and a katana, who murders all their dream selves and blows up prospit and derse. the trolls go into hiding on a meteor, where they learn that this strange murderous furry came from a session inside their new universe. they elect to constantly harass the players of this session. also around the time of furrymans rampage, a girl named feferi convinces some eldritch creatures to create the aforementioned afterlife, while another girl named aradia who was briefly a robot comes back to life as a god tier and freezes furrydude in place. a god tier player is someone who has died in a particular way and as a result been revived with conditional immortality (if they die they are immediately revived UNLESS their death was either heroic, or just ie they were a piece of shit), powers based on their class and aspect, and a new outfit also based on their class and aspect. meenah in the first universe did this, as did vriska in the 2nd, though only because aradia beat the shit out of her for being awful. speaking of which she murders her childhood friend who she has abused and tormented for years because thats just how vriska is.

this brings us to the start of homestuck, the comic. there are four kids at the moment: john egbert, an overall lovable dumbass who is the first to enter, rose lalonde, a goth lesbian obsessed with wizards and psychology, dave strider, funny sunglasses memelord and horrifically abused swordsman, and jade harley, the prophetic scientist heiress of an old colonialist who was raised by a magic dog. through some difficulties they enter their session, and things IMMEDIATELY start going wrong. they just barely get everyone into the session before earth is ruined, and before that can even happen, the aforementioned murder furry is created when a bureaucrat named jack noir kills the black queen and steals her magic ring. a different jack noir was also present in the troll session, this one became a mobster named spades slick. (yes, that stupid fucking intermission was actually important). this happened because like the players, several ingame npcs also are brought to the dying planet, after it gets fucked by rocks. these include, on earth, WV aka the mayor, PM who will be important later, and two other jackasses who arent important. PM is cool because shes a mailman who fights through the fucking legions of hell to deliver a package to john and then later receives a copy of jack noirs magic ring and proceeds to chase him across the void for 3 years and finally beats the shit out of him. love her. anyway;

like the 1st universe, the kids are informed by a creepy man who talks in white text on a white background like a fucking tool that they cant succeed and will have to reset their session, though with coordination from the trolls, they have a plan to survive it. they also plan to use a very large bomb created as part of that defect i mentioned before to blow up something called the green sun, which is where jack noirs magic furry powers come from. this will also coincidentally kill spooky white man who has a cueball for a head and release an eldritch horror known as lord english into the timeline. meanwhile in the troll session, a clown troll named gamzee is driven into a rage by a video of the insane clown posse sent to him by dave and murders several of the less relevant characters because hes a piece of shit. also meanwhile a troll named eridan ALSO kills some people including someone named kanaya who is a lesbian vampire with a chainsaw who eventually marries rose. kanaya then cuts eridan in half because she Is Too Fucking Angry To Die. love her. ALSO ALSO meanwhile vriska is about to fly off and expose their hiding place to jack noir, but is killed by her childhood friend terezi. she dies for good because its considered a just death. anyway back in the kid session, things go awry and its revealed that white bread tricked them, as the bomb actually CREATES the green sun retroactively. also, because of the properties of the green sun and where the bomb was set off, the two kids who set off the bomb, dave and rose, meet up with the remaining trolls outside of the kid session. meanwhile jade fucking dies to a bomb made of shaving cream but is revived as a god tier and for unrelated reasons also fused with her magical dog. dave and rose also ascend to god tier as they died when a massive fucking sun spawned on top of them. john was already god tier due to some shenanigans by vriska earlier. basically everyone has their signature look now.

jade uses her new god tier abilities to shrink down every planet in their session including the battlefield, before bringing herself, john, and an alternate timeline dave onto a battleship and literally fucking launching it through the fourth wall into Poorly Defined Author Space which is technically on the moon of alternia. andrew hussie is here. as they leave the session before its reset, they stay alive, same with rose and dave. also meanwhile with rose and dave, one of the surviving trolls, sollux, uses his psychic powers to launch the meteor towards the newly reset session at relativistic speeds (all sessions TECHNICALLY exist in the same dimension? its weird), while jade does the same with her battleship.

thus begins the 4th timeline/universe. shit only gets stupider from here, consider taking a short break.

ok, ready?

the new universe is shown off, with the new kids; jane crocker, an average young woman who stands to inherit the betty crocker company which in this timeline is like amazon (shes an alternate version of johns grandmother); roxy lalonde, who is literally the best character in homestuck (alt. rose’s mom); jake english, a dumbass who lives on a deserted island, speaks in horribly inaccurate british slang and dual wields pistols (alt. jade’s grandfather); and dirk strider, a canonically gay nerd with pointy anime sunglasses and a sword who builds robots and canonically watches mlp so like fucking make of that what you will (alt. dave’s abusive brother). their entry into their session is different; their session is called a void session, and is inherently unwinnable because of retroactive time bullshit, and for related reasons, the meteors that would destroy earth are never sent. you may ask “well how did the kids get there then?” to which the answer is when the reset happened the destination of the kids guardians was switched to be this new session. doesn’t that mean the guardians never existed, you say? stop thinking.

anyway janes entry into the session coincedes with betty crocker revealing herself to be a hostile alien empress who slowly takes over the earth with the help of the insane clown posse and guy fieri. she’s also the alternate version of meenah, who in the alternia timeline was the empress and also kind of a horrible person. shes here because of nonsense involving lord english, who she works for but hates. in fact, theres an interesting side effect to this; dirk and roxy actually live 400 years in the future from jane and jake, from after betty crocker aka the condesce killed everyone and flooded the planet. they still enter the same session, through dirk doing some stupid shit and controlling both his dream self and his actual self at the same time and moving everyone around.

there’s a long period of absolutely nothing happening in the 4th session while the trolls and kids travel to it, and during this were introduced to two characters; calliope and caliborn. theyre brother and sister, and are part of another race called cherubs who look like green skeletons and which share a body with each other and fight for control of it. caliborn is the fucking worst and actually becomes lord english eventually, while calliope is a nice down to earth person who makes fan characters and cosplays a troll. they also technically exist in a... 5th, separate universe, on a dead earth?? which is probably the future earth from the ending? i dunno it makes no fucking sense.

anyway calliope dies due to some plotting but death means fucking nothing in this story so shes off hidden in the afterlife. the meteor group and the battleship group pass through this afterlife like physically several times during their journey through the void and meet many of the dead trolls, including dead vriska, meenah, and aranea, who come up with a plan to lure lord english, who is currently destroying reality and murdering ghosts, to a place where they can hit him with a magic ghost weapon. they find it, and john touches it out of curiosity, whereupon he gains weird powers that let him travel ANYWHERE in canon at any time, though he cant really control it. during his random zaps around he beats the shit out of caliborn which is cool and good. partway through, aranea leaves and uses a magic ring to come back to life JUST as the two groups arrive at the new session and the 4 new kids ascend to god tier, at which point everything goes wrong all at once.

through a contrived series of events, jade and jane are mind controlled by the condesce, and a long fight scene ensues where jake unleashes his true power and then dies, aranea tries to usurp the condesce but fails miserably, and basically fucking everyone but john and roxy die horribly, planets are smashed into each other, the session is falling apart due to interference from caliborn who has limited control over the narrative for some reason; its not good.

fortunately, john in theory has the ability to fix this by retconning events in a particular way. he has no idea how to though, until a dying terezi headbutts him, writes instructions on a blindfold in her own blood, and then dies, falling into a chalk outline of her own corpse she drew immediately beforehand because shes fucking metal. john also, during this time, uses his new powers to move his planet out of the session into a white void apparently outside everything. as a consequence of this, in an alternate timeline his planet explodes and roxy dies, though in THIS weird space, he and roxy are still alive.

following terezis instructions, john changes some subtle things in the past, before ultimately preventing her from killing vriska by knocking vriska out. this, surprisingly, actually has a positive effect; vriska has powerful mind control abilities that allow her to put jane and jade to sleep upon arrival and prevent the bad timeline from happening, but she also mellows out a bit and keeps everyone from losing their minds during the journey, while also forming a plan to fight the condesce that works out pretty well. the person she murdered gets revived as well, though she still treats him like shit so im not giving her points for that.

john and roxy arrive from the bad timeline with johns planet, and roxy uses the magic ring to bring the dead calliope back to life. also around this time calliope meets an alternate version of herself who killed caliborn in her timeline and is spooky and mysterious and super fucking powerful and will be able to help kill lord english, so thats cool.

some nice, genuine heart to hearts happen between the characters as they get set up for the final battle, at which point it happens, in a 20 minute flash. the condesce gets defeated, lord english's influence is cut out from the session, and the new universe is created; its actually a pretty happy ending.

and THAT is the end of homestuck.

#homestuck

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tandv · 3 years

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So true what you said about ships!!! I remember being pissed off at Grey’s Anatomy because all couples kept breaking up and in an adult show that was just annoying. I want to see some people in their 30s and 40s being together until the end of the show, with all the real life challenges and ups and downs etc. And then Riverdale where characters have the right age to do dumb shit was just SO BORING. I think maybe they were just too absorbed by the mystery plots to develop relationship drama enough. Same with friendships tbh, Veronica & Betty and Jughead & Archie were supposed to be best friends but there was barely time to see that unfolding and growing (especially the girls).

(I am happy that Nancy Drew (not sure if you watch it) switched its main couple through season 1. I was bracing myself for more show-long commitment but apparently we can still be surprised.)

I just think in the case of Riverdale they really could have spent more time switching ships earlier on so that having long lasting relationships even later in high school if not in adulthood would have been more effective?

Look at Gossip Girl they didn’t stay with the same partners the whole time and yet they ended up with their most popular pairing. And love or hate their “endgames” at least we knew that they dated other people and they ultimately chose the partner they felt the most connected to in the long run.

A pairing like Choni where Cheryl assumably never dated anyone else as an adult is just really boring to me. I wanted her to have lived a life outside of Toni and not been cooped up inside her adult years and then when the reconcile it’ll be as new and improved versions of themselves because we know hey they have been with other people and experienced life outside of this one pairing and they still found their way back. That would be far more satisfying as a tv viewer to me idk.

And the Varchie/Bughead/Choni situation where even when they did break them up, they either got back together within a few episodes or in Veronica and Archie’s case; their new partners were never intended to be treated like they mattered to them and were easily ended when it was convenient. Which was so frustrating.

There was no reason to end Veronica and Reggie just because Archie came back. And they were like “oh they weren’t even dating it was just hooking up”

The show didn’t tell us that until Archie was back and suddenly she was like oh yeah I love Archie actually Soz.

And I think Toni and Jughead could have actually dated properly in season 2, established them as friends and then dated and then broke up later on. It would have given their storyline’s a better longevity and established Toni as a character before being Cheryl’s girlfriend. And made sure Toni had real connections outside of being her love interest. It could have really given a good insight into the serpents to have them both be a focus (this only works if Toni was treated important in that storyline and not just substituting Cheryl for Jughead obviously)

Barchie should have happened in high school and not as a cheating storyline. It should have happened as an in between relationship of bughead and varchie’s break ups. Either while Veronica was with Reggie or Jughead and Toni. Or whoever else.

Then as adults they could have gone back to them or focused on bughead or varchie or whatever other new love interests and combinations.

I think the reason why so many people got sick of the main ships was because there was never a change. It was always catering to the shippers of those ships.

And yes I agree to an extent that those ships are important and a crucial part of the show. And I’ve enjoyed them for the most part even with criticisms along the way.

But I also think that if they’d broken up and not for the sake of it, for a reason that actually added to the plot, and given different ships more opportunities to further the plot by creating fresh and new dynamics. Then the friction in the fandom right now wouldn’t be so jarring.

I also think the reason why it hurts the shippers of the main three pairings is because the show got too used to just having them together for so long that it became the norm. Everyone who ships them got so used to their pairing being together that now going cold turkey and not even having a friendship between them is something that hurts because it’s never happened.

The show sucks at writing friendships and like you said, they could have put in so much more effort into using those friendships and dynamics to make the storyline’s better but they really got into a rut and stopped knowing how to write relationships outside of the ones they already are too lazy to focus on outside of the case driven episodes.

And as for greys I agree! I mean especially with characters like Lexie and Mark who could have been fine without all the break ups. And they’re right now trying to make Meredith get into another triangle? Like why? She’s a middle aged woman with kids she doesn’t need a love triangle. Just pick one and work on it. There is no reason to be giving middle aged characters the same nonsense that 20 year olds go through. Like if your only solution to adding drama to relationships are cheating and triangles then you need some new writers lol

(I don’t watch Nancy Drew but I’m glad they’re shaking it up early on aha)

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traincat · 6 years

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i just found out about the gwen and norman babies and i’m just wondering what the fuck

“What the fuck” is a pretty accurate summary, but okay, so. Story time, because while this ask refers to the developments of a story called Sins Past (Amazing Spider-Man #509-#514), in which it was revealed that Gwen Stacy had twins fathered by Norman Osborn, to grasp the full story here we’ve got to go back to a little bit to before the death of Gwen Stacy.

In Amazing Spider-Man #93, after George Stacy’s death, his brother Arthur invites Gwen to come stay with his family in England. (This is notably where The Amazing Spider-Man 2 gets its “Gwen moving to England�� storyline.) Peter had been planning to propose to her, but freezes up under the knowledge that Gwen blames Spider-Man for her father’s death:

Gwen takes it as a rejection, and leaves to go stay with her aunt and uncle in England. One thing I don’t think gets touched on enough with Gwen is that she’s very empathic, and good at picking up on all of Peter’s feelings and cues – it’s just that she doesn’t have the full context to interpret them. This also isn’t the first time Peter’s been in this situation; after he graduated high school, knowing that Ned Leeds had proposed to Betty Brant, Peter also had planned to propose to her, somewhat secure in the knowledge that Betty would’ve chosen him over Ned. (She would’ve, and in fact when Betty’s marriage to Ned began falling apart much later, she and Peter briefly engaged in an affair.) But when Betty says she could never love a man who was an adventurer, “a man who risks his life each day”, Peter realizes that as Spider-Man it wouldn’t be fair to propose to her and storms out.

(He notably did not take into consideration that he was a high school graduate with a freelance job who still lived with his aunt in the “to propose or not to propose” dilemma. Typical.)

Gwen would return to New York in Amazing Spider-Man #98 – a whole five issues later. Coincidentally, this also marked the return of the Green Goblin, Norman’s memories of Peter’s secret identity as Spider-Man having returned. The Green Goblin was briefly stopped when Peter used the sight of Harry – who was suffering from a drug overdose – to shock Norman out of the Green Goblin persona. With Norman once again unaware that his son’s best friend and roommate was Spider-Man, Harry on the mend, and Gwen back from England, everything was coming up Parker and, though no specific details had been ironed out, Peter and Gwen were set to marry. (I think it’s important to note with PeterGwen how serious they were, and that they were planning to get married.)

But, famously, that didn’t last – Norman did remember, during a particularly nasty overdose of Harry’s, and he kidnapped and killed Gwen in Amazing Spider-Man #121.

So with all that in mind, let’s talk Sins Past itself. This got long. More under the cut.

Alright, so, all that said and done – in Sins Past, the story is flipped on its head. In Amazing Spider-Man #509, Peter receives a letter from Gwen, allegedly written while she was in Paris, indicating that when she died she did so with some kind of secret. The letter arrives incomplete, the secret unrevealed.

Furthermore, two mysterious (and super-powered) shadowy figures are trying to kill Peter, but that’s just like, a Wednesday for him. Along the way, and with a stunning admission from Mary Jane, it’s revealed that the two shadowy would-be assassins are Gwen’s twin children, and that their father is Norman Osborn.

Yeah.

The twins – Sarah and Gabriel Stacy – are aging preternaturally fast because of the Goblin serum Norman had dosed himself with. They were also born after only seven months – but the infants weren’t premature. It’s revealed that that’s why Gwen left for Europe, not, in fact, to stay with her father’s family, but to secretly have her children.

Yeah.

The twins were brought up in France by Norman, kept isolated from the world, and raised as trained fighters who believed that Peter was their father, and that he had abandoned them and killed their mother. So now they’re here to kill him.

Yeah.

So we’ll pause here to take some questions.

1) “What? Why? What?”

So initially, writerJ. Michael Straczynski wanted Sarah and Gabriel to be Peter’s children with Gwen. This was nixed by Marvel, under the belief that having two adult children would age the character too much. I mean, they’re actually like, seven years old, but okay. Denying Peter the status of fatherhood because it would “age him” too much is a frustrating pattern in Spider-Man canon: Norman notably orchestrated the murder of Peter and MJ’s baby several years before. Instead of chucking the story out of the window altogether, which you know, would have been my first pick, it was reworked so that Norman was the father of Gwen’s children, because that was so much better than Peter discovering he had children with one of the people he loved most in the world. Comics are here to be a frustrating experience for everyone.

2) “So Gwen cheated on Peter?”

This is a frustrating take on the situation I’ve seen on more than one anti-Gwen post, painting Gwen as the villain of the piece for sleeping with Norman, instead of as a vulnerable young woman taken advantage of by the father of one of her best friends, a disturbingly realistic scenario before you ever even add in the fact that Norman is a literal supervillain. When Gwen recounts her one sexual encounter with Norman to Mary Jane, she herself seems confused about how and why she ended up in the situation. While I don’t think the intent was to have the encounter be out and out nonconsensual, there’s more than enough room to wonder.

This is a very emotional time for the cast of Spider-Man; George Stacy is dead. Gwen blames Spider-Man and Peter is dealing with that and the way he is dealing with it is making Gwen doubt his love for her. Both Harry and Norman are falling apart in very different ways. Sometimes, things happen and situations arise and there’s no planning involved; “naive young woman is seduced by the darkness inside of an older man” is a tired trope, but a prevalent one. In any event, even if Gwen did deliberately cheat on Peter (which, no matter how you read the issue of consent in Sins Past, is clearly not what Gwen describes to Mary Jane), she was taken advantage of by an older man in a position of power over her, and after she had his children he turned around, killed her, and raised and abused her children to believe that the man Gwen wanted to raise them had abandoned them and murdered Gwen. So there’s no version of events here in which Gwen Stacy is the bad guy, and using that argument to prop up one of Peter’s other love interests as a better person than her is a bad take. There are no “good people” here: these are fictional characters who have been handled by many different creators over the years. They cannot make their own choices.

3) “Wait, J. Michael Straczynski? Isn’t that the guy whose Spider-Man comics you’re always telling people to read?”

Haha yeah it sure is!! It can be rough recommending a whole run, because the longer they get, the greater the chance there is of there being that one story in there you reaaaaally don’t think is for everyone, which is Sins Past. And this is tough, because as much as I don’t think Sins Past should be in continuity, JMS’ amazing voices for both Peter and Mary Jane never falters.

There are a lot of different kinds of bad stories in mainstream superhero comics: bad plot, bad characterization; good plot, bad characterization; bad plot, good characterization – and those are just some of the possible bad story combinations. I think Sins Past is a bad plot that’s very disrespectful to a female character whose legacy was already her brutal death at the hands of a supervillain. Reframing that death so that, instead of merely being at the wrong place at the wrong time and paying the ultimate price, Norman purposefully hunted down Gwen before she could tell Peter about her twins, doesn’t help. As a fan of Gwen, I don’t like her part in this story and I personally don’t think it should exist (as the story it currently is, and I’ll touch on that later) in continuity. I think it should be explicitly retconned out in a way that brooks no argument. (JMS himself has said he wished to retcon it out, but wasn’t allowed.)

That being said, have I read this like eight times? You bet. I think the art is stunning, I think JMS’ is really an incredible talent when it comes to writing Peter, who can be, to put it simply, a difficult character to get. I find the PeterMJ scenes are beautiful, as are Peter’s melancholy-tinged memories of Gwen. Also, I love comic book garbage. Skrulls? Clones? Robots? A character’s long lost children, artificially aged to adulthood and back to kill their supposed father? Oh my God, that’s so stupid. I want twenty of it.

So my feelings here are really mixed. I don’t like the rewrite of Gwen’s history. I don’t like that this is in serious continuity (and I’ll touch on that in a moment). Additionally, I don’t think the timeline really works – I’ve never felt Gwen was abroad for quite that long, even with the sped up pregnancy, and when she does come back, there’s quite a lot of time for her to tell Peter, which was something Sins Past had made clear she’d intended to do. But whatever, retcons are retcons, they rarely if ever are perfect fits. I do like the characterization of Peter and Mary Jane, and I like it a lot. If I had to pick a story that in my own opinion perfectly highlights how Peter experiences every single strong emotion, it would be this one, which is unfortunate because, well, everything else about this. It is unfortunately totally believable to me that Norman would have slept with Gwen and then killed her, but tbh if I was picking a member of Peter’s social circle who would willingly sleep with Norman, it’d be Flash, who briefly worked for Norman and was quite enamored by him – before he waterboarded Flash with whiskey, strapped him into a semi-truck, and made him crash into Midtown High, landing him in a coma. Oh, and then, way later, also murdering him. Norman’s gonna Norman.

Like I said: mixed feelings.

3) “Wait, but is it in continuity when it’s almost never brought up again, and nobody, not Peter or Mary Jane or Norman, mentions it even when it would make sense to and also nobody wants this in continuity anymore?”

Hhhh yeah it unfortunately is, and I’ll outline why, because it would have been so easy to take it out of continuity. So Sins Past takes place shortly before One More Day, wherein Aunt May was shot following the events of Civil War, during which Peter had revealed his identity on national television and the Spider-Man cat was out of the bag. In One More Day, Peter’s offered a choice by Mephisto: his marriage for his aunt’s life. Ultimately, unable to live with himself if he says no, Peter agrees. The marriage (although notably not the long term committed relationship – in the altered timeline, Peter and Mary Jane were still together from the date of their wedding to just after Civil War) was erased from the timeline, Aunt May was saved, and Peter’s identity was once again hidden from the world and from many of the people who had already know, like Felicia Hardy, the Fantastic Four, and most notably from Aunt May. There were also some additional changes made: most notably, Harry Osborn, who died in Spectacular Spider-Man #200, the best issue of all time, was alive. Clearly, the changes to the narrative’s web, if you will, extended beyond the framework of just Peter and Mary Jane’s marriage. Like I said: basically nobody talks about this story. It shows up on lists of the worst comic book plots of all time all the time. The characters almost never bring up Gabriel or Sarah – there is a sequel story called Sins Remembered: Sarah’s Story (The Spectacular Spider-Man vol 2 issues #23-26), written by Samm Barnes, where Sarah sends for Peter’s help in Paris and he does his level best to be her dad.

But of course all is not as it seems blah blah. I won’t say it’s the worst comic I’ve ever read.

It would have been easy, then, to retcon Gabriel and Sarah out with Brand New Day, since nobody ever talks about them or wants this story to be in continuity, including its original writer. Right?

Wrong. In the American Son miniseries, which is post-Brand New Day, Gabriel Stacy makes a prominent reappearance, although Sarah’s whereabouts are unknown.

I’ll be honest: I personally don’t consider this series of events to be canon. I never mention or include it. As far as I’m concerned, it’s extra-canon material, not to be counted. But that’s just me personally as a reader. If I was asked whether or not this was actually canon, in that it was published and not retconned back out – the answer is yes, the twins exist in canon. Not my personal canon, but the actual canon.

But we could fix that.

4) “Well, Traincat,” said nobody, “how WOULD you fix Gabriel and Sarah Stacy so that the twins could be kept in continuity without everyone screaming?”

Great question, me! I would fix it with the greatest out Spider-Man storytelling has ever given us: clones. It’s very notable that Sarah looks exactly like Gwen…

Gabriel was specifically drawn with a strong resemblance to Peter. Look at that. The Osborn hair doesn’t spare people that way. The answer then, becomes simple: keep the story. Keep Gabriel and Sarah. But have them be revealed as two of the Jackal’s Peter and Gwen clones. It’s a better explanation for why Gabriel and Sarah would be adults than “the goblin serum did it”, and planting the twins, who could fully believe they were who they said they were with the use of artificial memories, in Peter’s path as a form of psychological torment fits with many of villains – presenting Spider-Man with the children of his lost love, fathered by one of his greatest enemies, as a form of torture. As for Mary Jane’s recount of when she found out, well – the same thing: implanted memories. There are more than enough characters on the Marvel landscape who are capable of that. It’d be pretty easy to pull off, since Marvel seems stubbornly set on keeping Gabriel and Sarah on the playing field, and honestly, it makes a lot more sense. Clones! (Let me pull it off, Marvel!!)

One final note: Sins Past outright alleges that Gwen and Peter never had sex, because Peter knows from the start in the story that they couldn’t be his children. To which I would like to say: lol yeah right.

So that’s (probably more than you wanted to know about) Sins Past!

#traincat talks comics #long post/#*replies

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