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gwenllian-in-the-abbey · 3 months

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What do you think of Grrm's portrayal of religion?

Hi anon, this is a really interesting question, and it took me awhile to put together what I hope is a coherent answer.

For context, I think GRRM's background is important to keep in mind. George is almost exactly my parents' age and belongs to the same demographic of American anti-war ex hippies who aged into broadly liberal baby-boomers. Their radicalism has largely mellowed over the years, they may not be the most up to date on the appropriate terminology, and they tend to prioritize nonviolent solutions to systemic problems (my mom often tells me the younger generation needs to do another March on Washington). One thing liberal boomers also tend have in common is that often they grew up religious but, as they entered their 20s and went to college, broke away from the churches of their childhood. My family is full of ex-Catholic liberal boomers like George. They might have dabbled in Buddhism or Hinduism in the 70s, New Age mysticism in the 80s or 90s, and ended up settling into statements like, "I'm spiritual, but not religious." Almost invariably, they have a sort of disdain for organized religion, which they associate with a kind of yokel mentality, a place for anti-Choice anti-LGBTQ traditionalists. Although they will profess "to each his own," to the average liberal boomer, the church represents regressive values and they cannot imagine why anyone would willingly return to it. Even those who did remain religious take great pains to make it known they are not like those Christians. And to be fair, liberal boomers have a good reason to feel this way. The churches of their childhoods were not fun places for people whose own ideas and values went against post-WW2 broadly white middle class values. Unsurprisingly, SFF authors tend to fit into this category.

And this sort of bleeds into a lot of 90s SFF. You see a lot of worlds that have religion, but rarely do you have characters that are religious, and even more rarely do you have sympathetic young protagonists who are religious. You might have the occasional kindly priest or nun type, but far more often these characters will be abusive, mean spirited, or narrow minded (think of Brienne's childhood septas). Religion is often treated with the same disdain by in-world characters as it is by the authors themselves. You might even have worlds that are almost entirely secular, with vague references to "The Gods," but without any real religious traditions constructed around them (Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings series, which features two vague dieties, Eda and El, who seem to have no religious traditions surrounding them whatsoever). You might have cultish religions that are actively dangerous and must be stopped, or you might have Catholic church analogues, existing in opposition to everything cool and fun. Protagonists tend to be cynical non-believer types, or they might start off as true believers and lose their religion along the way. Rarely are they allowed to have sincere and abiding faith.

And you can see a lot of this in George's writing, in the way he portrays the Faith of the Seven and other religions, and the way the fandom receives them. The Faith of the Seven is Westeros' answer to the Catholic church, but there are also the Old Gods, the faith of R'hllor, and others, often presented in opposition to each other. George himself sees religion as a divisive force, and in ASOIAF, we see religions in conflict with each other, we see them weaponized to fuel vendettas, we see them used to drive prophesies and start wars. There's a clip somewhere, of George at a panel, where he's talking about religious conflict and his take is very reminiscent of George Carlin's-- you can tell he knows the bit. "Are you really going to kill all of these people because a giant invisible guy in the sky told you too? And your giant guy in the sky is different?" George asks, receiving a round of applause from the crowd. It's a very modern view on religion, which is fair, I think. He's writing for a modern audience who have modern conceptions of the church, and he is making a deliberate point about the harm religion can do. .

What I do think is missing, or at least downplayed, are the ways in which the medieval church was really a driving cultural and social force in medieval Europe. We live in a secular society, so we have the luxury of disregarding the church in a way that medieval people did not. This is one major way in which the worldbuilding of ASOIAF departs from the real world middle ages. To portray the medieval church as a primarily regressive institution that mostly drove conflict is too simplistic. The Catholic church is what culturally unified most of western Europe into what was known as "Christendom." The clergy served political functions, such as providing an important check upon the power of medieval kings, and when the power of the church declined, despotism grew. Socially, for most western Europeans, the church was also the center of day to day life. Insofar as medieval peasants had any opportunities for leisure time and celebrations, most of these revolved around the church. The church was for centuries a driving force behind art, music, literature, and architecture, and it also performed important social functions, such as operating poorhouses and leper-houses, and providing educations for children.

And all of this was just extremely normal. Most people prayed multiple times each day, and sincerely believed in heaven a hell. The state of one's soul after death was such a real concern that the sale of indulgences-- a way that you could pay to get your dead loved ones whose souls were in purgatory into heaven more quickly-- became a major racket for the Church. I've seen the HotD fandom react to Alicent Hightower's level of devotion calling her a religious "fanatic" and I cannot stress enough how absolutely normal Alicent would have been in medieval times. This is where I blame the framing of the show more than George, because it does set Alicent's faith in opposition to Rhaenyra's seemingly more modern values, but does it in a selective way. For instance, Alicent comes off as prudish, and modern audiences hate a prude, but we never see how her faith would have certainly inspired her, as queen, to take other more progressive actions such as giving alms to the poor or bestowing her patronage upon motherhouses. In another post about the fandom perception of Valyrian culture, I talked about how this modern view of devout belief, particularly Catholicism, tends to cast anything that is presented in opposition to it as an unequivocal good, and I see this sort of rhetoric slung around the fandom a lot, "why would you defend the pseudo-Catholics who hate women??" But the pseudo-Catholics are really just normal medieval people, and they didn't hate women, they simply lived in a patriarchal society and the material conditions did not yet exist which would allow them to challenge that in any meaningful way.

#asks #faith of the seven #alicent hightower #grrm #asoiaf and religion #asoiaf

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heyitsrink · 7 months

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As I lifted the tent flap, he spoke again. "Fitz. I've really missed you. Don't go. Sleep here tonight. Please."

So I did.

my contribution to @roostercrowned 's Fitzloved fanzine. A lot can happen in between chapters - especially in Fool's Fate.

#fitzloved #rote #realm of the elderlings #fitzchivalry farseer #the fool #beloved #fool's fate #tawny man trilogy #the elderling tent #fanzine #comic spread #i called him beloved #rote fanzine #“so I did” be so for real right now Fitz #shedding light on the fade-to-black #panels of the elderlings

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heyitsrink · 11 months

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• • •

I think I'll forever be chasing the high I felt while reading Fool's Errand for the first time. I could have chosen any number of scenes to panel but it just had to be The Reunion. Pg 99-105 changed my brain chemistry.

• • •

He was a slender youth, but just as the lightness of his horse prompted one to think of swiftness, so did his slimness call to mind agility rather than fragility. His skin was a sun-kissed gold, as was his hair, and his features were fine. The tawny man approached silently save for the rhythmic striking of his horse's hooves. When he drew near, he reined in his beast with a touch, and sat looking on me with amber eyes. He smiled.

Something turned over in my heart.

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heyitsrink · 10 months

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• • •

I tried to sit up and shamed myself by needing her assistance. When I did so, I became aware of the tapestry on the wall facing me. It had be freshly cleaned and mended, but as ever an elongated King Wisdom stared down at me as he made treaty with the Elderlings. My shock must have shown on my face, for Kettricken smiled and said, "Chade said you would be astonished and pleased. It seemed a rather dismal tapestry to me but he said it was an old favorite of yours.

It took up the entire wall. Just as it had when it hung on the wall of my childhood bedroom, it struck me as nightmarish. And the old man knew that full well. Despite how weak I was, his rough jest brought a smile to my face.

• • •

There was so much about Golden Fool that I loved but the moments between Kettricken and Fitz really stood out to me. And this scene in particular represents Chade and Kettricken's personalities so well. While Kett is providing loving touches to Fitz's room, Chade swoops in with the forever-haunting tapestry. Iconic behavior.

#rote #realm of the elderlings #rote fanart #fan comic #golden fool #comic spread #fitzchivalry farseer #kettricken #the tawny man trilogy #robin hobb #from page to panel #panels of the elderlings

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heyitsrink · 1 year

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I'm on my first read through of Realm of the Elderlings and as a little personal project for myself, I'm taking a scene or small moment from each book in the series and turning it into a comic spread. I've been working on this project since January so I'm catching up a little bit with posts here.

Here's my spread for Royal Assassin. This bit of dialogue stood out to me the first time I read it - I love when the Fool talks in riddles!

"Who knows what will swirl up from the bottom of a stirred kettle?" He went suddenly to my door, and set his hand to the latch. "That is what I ask of you," he said quietly. "To forgo your twirling, Sir Spoon. To let things settle."

"I cannot."

He pressed his forehead to the door, a most un-Fool-like gesture. "Then you shall be the death of kings."

#as with any adaptation I took some artistic liberties #for ya know #drama #i also made a comic spread for AA but I have a lot of issues with it so I think I'll revisit that later #comic spread #fan comic #royal assassin #rote fanart #rote #realm of the elderlings #robin hobb #the fool #farseer #farseer trilogy #fitzchivalry farseer #panels of the elderlings #from page to panel

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heyitsrink · 1 year

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I loved character dynamics in Ship of Magic and was especially drawn to Amber and Paragon's friendship. This scene doesn't happen on-page so the comic spread is a bit of a fanfic // fanart combo. I imagine that Amber was delighted to carve her gift for Paragon and I just wanted to spend some time with her in her cozy workshop.

"I brought you something," she said into the comfortable silence.

"You brought me something?" he wondered aloud. "Really?" He tried to keep the excitement out of his voice. "I don't think anyone has ever brought me me anything before."

She sat up straight. "What, never? No one's ever given you a present?"

#ship of magic #liveship traders #the liveship traders trilogy #rote #realm of the elderlings #rote fanart #comic spread #fan comic #robin hobb #amber #amber x paragon #their friendship is so precious to me #panels of the elderlings #from page to panel

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heyitsrink · 11 months

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• • •

Don't you love it when the ship's eccentric carpenter drops a monologue that's equal parts cryptic and poetic? Amber was a highlight of Ship of Destiny for me. What an icon. What a legend.

• • •

Amber's hair lifted slightly in the rising wind and she had spoken in a distant voice. "Danger cups us under its hand, and we can do nothing but stand witness to the turning of the world. Here we walk on the balancing line between futures. Humanity always believes it decides the fate of the world, and so it does, but never in the moment that it think it does. The future of thousands ripples like a serpent through the water, and the destiny of a ship becomes the destination of the world."

She turned to look at Althea with eyes the color of brandy in firelight. "Can't you feel it?" she asked in a whisper. "Look around you. We are on a cusp. We are a coin spinning in the toss, a card fluttering in the flip, a rune chip floating in stirred water. Possibilities swarm like bees. In this day, in a moment, in a breath, the future of the world will shift course by a notch. One way or another, the coin will land ringing, the card will settle to the table, the chip will bob to the surface. The face that shows uppermost will set our days, and children to come will say, 'That is just the way it has always been.'"

#i fucking love this passage #i get chills everytime i read it #amber x althea #the liveship traders trilogy #liveship traders #ship of destiny #rote fanart #comic spread #fan comic #rote #realm of the elderlings #panels of the elderlings #robin hobb #from page to panel #fanart #i swear amber is wearing The Earring it's just on the other ear

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