[TW: grooming] Gentle reminder that Luke castellan was a 19 year old adult going after a 14 year old Silena, emotionally manipulating her and basically grooming her into giving him information. (Luke was said to have recruited Silena sometime after he left chb, which is basically the ending of TLT and Silena was 14 in TLT while Luke was 19) and continued to do so for 4 YEARS (the time between TLT and TLO is 4 years, and Silena only stopped falling into the trap after Charlie died, which was in TLO)
I hope the pjo timeline is an eye opener for the naive as fuck fans defending and justifying Luke's behaviour and having the audacity to deny that Silena was indeed groomed.
There's a difference between appreciating well written complex characters vs actually glossing and meat riding their problematic and questionable behaviour. A huge fucking difference. I think Luke is a good written character, but seeing the amount of fans justifying him being a creep scares me.
"Grooming" (I took the definition straight out of the internet for the detectives that will probably scrutinize and chew on my post lmao) is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them.
Luke took advantage of Silena to BOTH manipulate AND exploit her for information.
Don't even get me started on the "he had a terrible home life, he was traumatized as a kid, what else can you expect?" yeah he was, but how was that Silena's fault? She shouldn't have to be taken advantage of , suffer without even realizing it, and pay the price to Luke's insanity, just because Luke had internalized issues like other demigods did?? How is that a fucking excuse??
Look me in the eye and tell me that Luke was "so hot because of how crazy, messed up and unhinged he is"
I dare you.
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What do you think about the training scene in Tales of Jedi ? It seems useless and cruel to me (especially in comparison to the one in Kenobi) but maybe you have a different opinion
I think it was absolutely practical and necessary, and no matter how painful, exhausting, and frustrating it was for Ahsoka, the training utterly pales in comparison to the reality that she is a child who was originally sent out onto a battlefield with ZERO experience.
Ahsoka is and likely always was exceptional with a lightsaber, which is why Yoda for some reason thought it would be alright for her to be sent to Christophsis. But you gotta understand. While Jedi are taught combat and are skilled fighters, being prepared to use your lightsaber as a peacekeeper is completely different from being sent onto the front lines of massive battles as a commanding officer of an army. Before the war, the lil training remote was sufficient. As a Jedi initiate who grew up sheltered in the Temple, Ahsoka would have never experienced anything like Christophsis until she arrived there.
Anakin knows this. Anakin, if he could, probably never would have wanted to take a Padawan onto a battlefield, no sane Jedi would. But he didn't have a choice. So he decided to prepare her as much as he could, with the help of men he knows are skilled with blasters. Yes, it'll hurt. Yes, it might even be cruel. But better that Anakin be cruel and Ahsoka covered in bruises and unconscious than her being DEAD because she didn't (couldn't have) the experience necessary to stay alive.
After all, very single one of those times she falls unconscious, if that had been live fire, she'd have been dead.
And if it was too much? If Ahsoka had decided to call it quits, say she can't handle this? Then Anakin probably would have let her leave. But it would have also forfeited her right to be on a battlefield—it would have given Anakin an excuse to sideline her until he considered her ready. After all, if she can't handle practice fire in a controlled, safe environment, she certainly has no right to be on a field where an enemy is shooting to kill. And Ahsoka likely knew this, and she wanted to be there with her Master and the boys, so she stuck it out.
So no, I don't think the training was useless or cruel. I think it was cruel for a child to be dumped into the middle of a war. And I think the skills she learned from the training—that Ahsoka chose to continue even by herself, even without Anakin's supervision—saved her life in many, many situations. The episodic nature of the Clone Wars series means that we see only the biggest events, and nothing in between. We do see Ahsoka grow up, but she must have necessarily done the work in between missions to reflect, to train, to improve. So I think it was great that we got to see part of that.
All of this is under the assumption that Ahsoka just needed to survive the war, which is likely all Anakin was thinking about when he came up with the training. But add in the fact that she needed to literally dodge fire from the clones...
No, I don't think it was useless at all.
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Took me a while to realize but I can see similarities in how Asuka seems to process grief and how Guts from Berserk also processed his grief after the Eclipse. They both get so overwhelmed by the wrong that happened to them (father's hospitalization vs the Eclipse and a lifetime of misery) their reaction isn't to seek comfort in others or help/protect their loved one who needs them after the tragedy, it's to go off and inflict their pain on others to self soothe, as if that'll release the feeling from their minds.
The difference is that Guts was called out for this by Rickert and Godo. He needed to snap out of wanting to prioritize ridding his own pain to remember Casca needed him, and that Casca even in the state she was in was all the good in his life who went through the same experience with him. Guts had to remember he loves Casca more than he wants to self destruct. Like Godo told him he was a sword called fear with cracks in it. He feared sitting with his pain and grief and seeing it on the person he loved after so much violation. He feared vulnerability.
Asuka doesn't do this reevaluatation and has no one to call her out for her self destructive coping canonically. She can't sit with anything bad or face looking at it on a loved one either. That's too bad and helpless of a feeling. She's just as much made of fear (primarily from any helplessness as much as violations of her inner ethics) which fuels her anger, but her one personal attachment to her father who needs her isn't enough to make her want to reevaluate what she does at all. Instead his tragedy is the permission she needs to self destruct and destroy in the process, not like Guts who always told himself everything was for Casca and the fallen Hawks, who always reminded himself of the pain to justify the bloodletting.
Unlike Guts I think she'd be stubborn even accepting to listen to someone pointing her behavior out. Though her anger toward Feng did start out carrying a reminder this vengeance is for Dad even if it kills her in 5, even in 5's branching narratives that excuse falls apart when she continues in the tournament for her own pleasure during her route. The moment vengeance is achieved critically injured Dad is out of her mind. Her behavior during 6 repeats this process, preferring to hurt herself and others rather than sit to process a shitty feeling over her and the world's situation. Like Guts in this state she pushes away anyone and everyone else including any comforts because the anger isn't resolved, the fear isn't resolved, the pain isn't resolved.
They're both used to everyone being against them and having to fight for survival until they found joy in it as a side effect. And because of that independence born from isolation when something like the tragedies that happened takes place they put resolving their pain not on sharing with others but into scorching the earth along with themselves.
I don't say this either to imply they're exactly alike or that they have enough similarities to make a true character comparison because they absolutely don't. There's also some stuff I'm leaving out simply because Guts is a far more complex character in ways where there's nothing from Asuka to compare against (I would say Kazuya is the closest, more fitting Tekken comparison for substituting Guts vs Asuka style notes). I just find it interesting that even across wildly different stories the outline for an angry, self destructive, terrified person who thinks self destruction makes them strong and puts them in control uses a lot of the same foundation. And the contrast in their depths really shows how far you can push the concept depending on what you want or need for the character.
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what are your opinions on ch14? its one of my fav chapters tbqh so im curious to know why u didnt like it initially and what changed
Thank you for this question! Writing down your thoughts is always fun eheh. Predictable negativity on bsd storytelling and Higuchi characterization under the cut, so please don't read if that's something possible to ruin your mood!!
So here's the thing. We need a bit of context first. Okay, you might know I'm not a big fan of bsd's poor female characters writing in general. My first contact with chapter 14 was when I was watching the bsd anime for the first time. Higuchi is introduced as this woman who is very cool!!! She lured the main character into a trap, pulled out these massive riffles and started shooting everywhere. It was nice. Then, she's badly mistreated by Akutagawa, and it's gross; Higuchi's relationship with Akutagawa is so fucked up. And then the following episode 11 (that is the corresponding of chapter 14) is all about it, about Higuchi's fucked up relationship with Akutagawa, but like... Romanticizing it? Saying it's good for this woman to stay at her work place where she's made miserable on daily basis?
What's most distasteful isn't the beating up itself from Akutagawa, although that is sure to leave a very bitter taste (after all, as a shonen-ish series, violence is nothing out of the norm); what's highly disturbing is the clear unbalance of power between Higuchi and Akutagawa, or how Higuchi is constantly depicted as being obsessed with Akutagawa while Akutagawa is openly violent with her. And the way he reprimands her! And the way she's clearly distraught at his words- not to mention the countless times it's shown how emotionally hurt she was by him. This kind of stuff is depressing. Because like!! What if we didn't romanticize men hitting their female partners!!!!! The bar is *that* low!!!!!!
And Higuchi is portrayed as being obsessed with Akutagawa. She was willing to die trying to save him, even being aware she alone couldn't do anything to win over an enemy organization... Because apparently dying trying to save him would be better than living without him? Girl, you deserve so much better. The “it's not easy to leave the Port Mafia, but it's not impossible. I've thought about it many times. Yet I didn't, because... ” sentence is sorta implied to refer to the fact that she didn't leave the Port Mafia because she was in love with Akutagawa (Ryuunosuke), right? I interpreted it that way when I first watched the anime, and I still believe it's the phrase's main implication– also because the actual closing sentence “because it's my job” doesn't make any sense, as she's basically saying “I'm not leaving my job because it's my job”; it's evident there's a deeper meaning to it hinting to Higuchi having romantic feelings for Akutagawa (unless... the circular phrase is used to metaphorically express how she's hopelessly stuck in a toxic work environment, but I can hardly imagine the author going such lengths to express a concept they visibly have no interest in developing). Point is, the fact that she's basically saying she's willing to keep working for a job that makes her allegedly unhappy just because she loves a man is... Not great. Besides, Higuchi going “it's my job” at Akutagawa after he asked her sorry like???? Now, after ten months of being into bsd, I can find it vaguely cute, but you can bet the first time I watched it I was like. bestie, beloved, light of my life, your job can NOT be to endure abuse after abuse from your coworker. Get yourself a new job asap, and feel free to deck Akutagawa too while you're at it.
What's nasty about Akutagawa beating Higuchi again isn't the beating itself, as much as Higuchi being obsessed with Akutagawa despite of it, and their whole dynamic never being framed as negative. It would be one thing if the whole situation was framed as toxic but... It's very much not. It's not like the reader is lead to despise Akutagawa for what he does, it's just something that's there. The narrative doesn't look like it's going in a direction of Higuchi emancipating herself either, but rather learning to roll with the abuse thanks to fleeting rewards of acknowledgement which is, once again, gross. It's gross to display a model of woman who would stay in a work place that constantly mistreats and disrespects her because it's worth her abusive crush telling her “I'm sorry” once every blue moon. Hell yeah you are sorry Akutagawa! If Higuchi had chosen to cut off his life support right there I wouldn't find it hard not to consider it rightful and legit on her side. The way they handle Higuchi's character is gloriously catastrophic and there's maybe not a better example of how the author doesn't know how to write women, has literally no clue on... The fact that women are p e o p l e and any sane person would leave such a toxic environment at the first chance. But of course they would rather think any woman would stay stuck with a terrible job if it's for a handsome, brooding guy (bruh??? Bruh???????? Sorta crying right now sorry)
Then again, the issue isn't even the relationship being toxic itself– I mean, it sucks for Higuchi, but one can decide to portray a toxic relationship in fiction. The issue is that it's evidently not intended to be perceived as toxic. Nobody ever sides with Higuchi, or voices the fact that she's evidently being abused; Higuchi easily forgives Akutagawa when he apologizes (it doesn't even count as forgiving because she never was even angry or frustrated at him to begin with what the fuck). Akutagawa hitting Higuchi is even used as a gag and like. What the fuck. Who in the world could ever find it funny. What the fuck.
Tbh when I entered the fandom I was very surprised to find out the cycle of abuse was typically framed like this:
Mori → Dazai → Akutagawa → Kyouka
when after watching the anime I definitely had an idea more of the sorts of:
(Mori) → Dazai → Akutagawa → Higuchi
(Very side note but at this point Mori towards Dazai barely counts as abuse, like what did he even ever do to him? Emotional abuse barely stands too since Dazai is, on admission of Mori himself, extremely hard to manipulate)
I feel like Higuchi and Akutagawa's relationship mirrors a lot what used to be Akutagawa's relationship with Dazai when Dazai was still in the pm, especially in the way both Higuchi and Akutagawa are obsessed with their own senpai and gaining his approval. And honestly, just as I am a firm supporter of Akutagawa growing out of his infatuation for Dazai and never forgiving him for what he's done to him, I also believe Akutagawa doesn't deserve Higuchi's forgiveness and could rot in hell as much as I care (joking, but also, don't hurt Higuchi and then expect to have my sympathy).
Plus, THE WHOLE “this female leader becomes useless and powerless as soon as her talented partner is out of the game” the episode carries through like NNNNGGGHHH biting biting chewing wood then why did you even make her leader in the first place???? Like what's the point???????? The rethoric that women are literally useless without a man?????????? I get that this chapter came out around 2013 but like. C'mon. So did Kill la Kill and Psycho-Pass. C'mon. (Also the “we won't recognize the legitimacy of this woman's authority until she demonstrates she's willing to die / throws herself in a suicide mission” but that's a whole different category of “saving other people's lives gives me permission to keep living” “people can't live unless someone tells them ‘it's okay to go on’ ” bsd fucked up morals this post is already too long to get into)
But like (and here starts the nicer section): time has passed since I watched the episode and read the chapter. I reluctantly grew fonder of both Akutagawa and Higuchi. And despite the fact that everything I've said still stands... Akutagawa did say sorry. We never saw him interact with Higuchi after that, which leaves space to hope he's changed in the way he behaves with her (more likely author has realized how fucked up and nasty the whole thing was and opted to never show them interact again, but eh). And while Akutagawa saying sorry didn't effect me at all when I first watched it, because what he did to Higuchi is unforgivable (that much I still believe)... He still apologized. When I first watched the episode, I didn't care the slightest about Akutagawa– besides despising him for how he treated Higuchi, of course. But as the story unwraps itself, it's hard not to grow sympathetic of him, especially after learning about the Dark Era events / the Heartless Cur events / seeing him act in the Moby Dick fight arc too to an extent. I still firmly believe Higuchi shouldn't forgive him, and I don't either for what he's done to her, but as a reader I at least now have an explanation to why he acted that way towards her, and I can understand him. I can now catch more layers to him saying sorry, the effort it must have took him, the admission of having been wrong (which is a huge thing, like, what other character in this series has ever admitted of being wrong? So many characters believing they're infallible), the real intention of making amends and learn from his mistakes which is... Admittedly nice. I mean, character development is great. Everyone is weak for character development, and Akutagawa's is a huge one. What were before words I would have forcibly shoved back in his throat are now reluctantly heartwarming, because they show an Akutagawa who's willing to change and become a better person. But from Higuchi's point of view, that still doesn't change how much harm and suffering he caused her, you know? That doesn't change the fact Higuchi should never forgive him for what he's done to her, just like Akutagawa is entitled to never forgive Dazai for all the abuse he was perpetrator of. I just overall think one's redemption does require amends to be made, but can't demand forgiveness. Akutagawa's step of apologizing is important and necessary for him to make amends and start to become a better person; but that does not and never will entitle him to Higuchi's forgiveness. I now like that scene some more because it's a big first display of development for Akutagawa's character, and because despite the bad writing I could never dislike Higuchi; I like it because I like to imagine that being a moment of growth for both of them, if I make myself forcibly forget about their displeasing canon characterization. I like it because I now like both characters and, despite rationally thinking they're most likely better off separate ways, it still compells me to imagine them being happy and in good terms together. I like it because Higuchi in Harukawa's art style is so freaking pretty
Mandatory tl;dr: I don't like the chapter because it perpetuates and romanticizes the rethoric of women being destined to be made miserable by a man their whole lives with no chances of getting out, as well as displaying a huge systematic unbalance in Higuchi and Akutagawa's relationship with Higuchi being constantly made weaker and dependent; I like it more now because I got attached to Higuchi and Akutagawa, because it shows a growth of Akutagawa and because I wouldn't be able to hate Higuchi no matter what.
Dear Op‚ you said chapter 14 was one of your favorite chapters so you've probably thought about it longer and way more thoroughly than me‚ and it's possible that after reading this there wasn't a single thing you agreed with. And that's okay!! I hope reading this made you view the chapter from a new perspective even if you ultimately disagree with my takes.
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also something else tangential not to that ask but to the tangent of that ask: it is a wonder why the people to whom bruce affords the most interiority whether by circumstance of knowing him for so long (alfred, leslie) or by his own rare willingness to relent (talia), are never really used to help bolster understanding between him and his children despite the fact that they are aware of things the children aren’t. with alfred i think it owes to lack of consistency in his role from one writer to the next; sometimes he’s merely there for the occasional comedic quip, sometimes he has genuine commentary on bruce’s lifestyle and care for the children, other times he hardly exists as anything more than a prop who could just as easily be removed without any impact at all. talia is obv villainized before she has the chance to interact with any of bruce’s children in a truly constructive capacity. and then there’s leslie. i’m really curious why leslie (at least prior to war games) hasn’t been used more in this capacity. not that it’s the sole thing she should exist for but i think she offers a unique perspective in that while she does condemn vigilantism, she also understands where bruce is coming from and that his intentions are good, if misguided. so why is that never capitalized on to allow her to communicate with, if anyone at all, dick? i have far too many spiels on here about the leslie and jason potential but it’s really baffling to me there’s not a more significant rapport between her and dick considering the fact that year two and full circle establish her as having been a significant witness to dick entering bruce’s life. she was witness to him being partner to bruce for roughly a decade. how would that not result in some sort of relationship between them, and why wasn’t that ever used to provide a bridge to understanding bruce via the lenses of two very different people?
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