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PIN’s: The Future of Private Link Building

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What I’m going to reveal in this blog post is a strategy that will likely weed out a certain section of the ViperChill audience. In other words, I’m fully aware that this blog post will make a particular type of person unsubscribe from ViperChill and likely never return. It’s certainly not going to end up on the homepage of Inbound.org.

If you are loyal to Google guidelines, the teachings of blogs like Moz and love playing by the book, then you’ll probably realise with this article that we possess a very different perspective. When I first started my internet journey – where I spent day and night trying to make a living online – I tried and tested more website ideas and angles than you would believe.

Today, I’m still pushing the boundaries to see what works. These boundaries most often pertain to SEO, since it’s what I’ve enjoyed the most over the last 11 years.

I’m in the fortunate position that my business it not tied to some employer who dictates how I have to do things when it comes to promoting web properties. As such, I’m always willing to ignore everything I previously thought about marketing and to be open to new ideas and opportunities.

This blog post details one such opportunity, but I realise it will not be for everyone. Not everyone is the position to implement it for their online business, and even if you are, you may question the ethics of what is coming up.

With that disclaimer out of the way, today I’m going to introduce you to the world of PIN’s. Just before I do that, I want to talk about why I think they’re necessary.

I Predict We’ve Got Four to Five Years Left to ‘Do SEO’ As We Know It

This isn’t some “SEO is Dead” article you see go viral in the SEO blogosphere every six months, but a genuine prediction based on how Google search results have evolved over the last few years.

Google make all of their money via ads so quite simply want more people to click on them (and more often). The less success people have with SEO, the more likely they are to move to Google’s advertising platform.

Long gone are the days when we’re presented with just 10 blue links on a page.

The White Space Between Search Results Has Increased

It’s known that the higher up the page a search result, the more clicks it will receive. Therefore, when organic search results are pushed further down the page they’re going to be receiving fewer and fewer clicks. Not only are they lower down now in mobile results due to spacing, but the change is being tested across desktop results as well.

The search result on the left includes the new extra spacing with the ads taking up far more vertical space than the search result on the right (graphic via SEMPost).

There Are More ‘Featured Snippets’ Than Ever Before

There isn’t much to say on this one besides feature snippets are to be found for millions of search queries in every industry imaginable. What, when, how and why questions are often answered with a featured snippet box.

This not only pushes ‘organic’ search results further down in search results, it also attempts to give you the answer right from the results page. We can argue whether or not it’s useful for searchers, but for SEO’s, it gives new meaning to having the top result in Google.

‘Map Packs’ Completely Changed Local Search Results

Some call them ‘map packs’, some ‘the local pack’ and some even call them the ‘snack pack’. Whatever your term of choice, after being introduced a few years ago SEO’s have been trying to figure out how to get themselves and their clients into the pack to compensate for a lack of expected search results.

After all, these local listings take up a large portion of screen real estate.

I’m not complaining about this change; I’m simply pointing it out. There’s no doubt it makes search results more useful and that is Google’s aim (usually) after all. While Google did reduce the listings from seven to three back in August of 2015, the redesign of the listings with adding spacing means not much changed in terms of organic results being seen.

Those Map Packs Now Contain Ads, Too

We’re not going back to Google updates of a few years ago to make a point about Google evolving. Just last month Google announced that the map / local / snack pack would now include ads, as shown below.

This image is a mockup by Barry Schwartz, though the real thing looks very similar

It’s interesting to follow both PPC and SEO guys on Twitter and see the difference in reaction. PPC guys are over the moon since it gives them more traffic opportunities for their clients and SEO guy’s, well…I’m sure you can guess the reaction.

Based on how Google’s past, it’s not one of surprise.

They Have All The Answers

The knowledge graph was released in May of 2012 and it’s almost disappointing when you don’t see it for queries when looking for quick answers. For example, when I want to see how my football team, Newcastle, have fared against Liverpool, I literally don’t have to click anywhere.

Whether you want to learn about how old someone is, what 12 x 56 is or who discovered Radium, Google has the results right there for you. As a searcher, I love these quick answers, but as an SEO, it’s just one more thing which has lessened the likelihood of people clicking on my website if it doesn’t appear in this box.

They Continue to Make People Scared of Link Building

Google are great at making people fearful of performing any type of SEO. After all, this was the company that introduced the rel=”nofollow” attribute so we could link out to websites without giving them “link juice”.

That isn’t the real headline for the article – I’ve got to have some fun in these serious posts – but Google have publicly cracked down on pretty much everything when it comes to link building. The list includes, but is not limited to:

Guest posting for links

Using directories for links

Utilising private blog networks

Adding links to website themes

Adding do-followed links to widgets

They literally created a ‘no-follow’ tag

That’s not all; they openly share how much human intervention is involved in finding people abusing the guidelines, rather than algorithmic. This tweet speaks volumes.

Anglo Rank was a small network being promoted on the Black Hat World forums.

Just think about this for a second. One of Google’s first employees (and former Head of Web Spam), worth millions of dollars, dedicated his time to actively targeting a tiny little network on some private forum just to scare other people away from doing the same.

The simple fact is that Google can’t figure out with absolutely certainty which links are earned, or bought, or manipulative, very effectively.

Now I’m not taking anything away from Google here. Their company is worth hundreds of billions and mine, well…isn’t. They have undoubtedly created the world’s most sophisticated search engine.

But as I said earlier, it’s far easier for them to get us to police ourselves than it is for them to police us.

Big Brands Dominate the Long Tail

As SEO becomes increasingly difficult and searches are more and more dominated by big brands, the long tail will be the final frontier of search traffic opportunities.

When I said we only have a few years left to do SEO as we know it, the long tail will be where the majority of SEO’s focus their time through on-site SEO changes and content marketing.

While we’ll still have opportunities for SEO to ‘work’, long tail search results just don’t seem to be as diverse as they were in the past. It makes sense to me that Google have some kind of ‘filter’ whereby if they’re not sure what to list for a search result, they simply show more results from an authoritative site to be on the safe side.

Logically, this makes sense, but as an SEO, it could be a worrying sign of things to come. You can see this lack of diversification above in my screenshot of the map packs as well, with Yelp dominating the first three organic search results.

The Lack of Diversity in Search Results Will Only Get Worse

If you’ve only found ViperChill recently then it was likely because of my recent article, How 16 Companies Are Dominating the World’s Google Search Results. It has been shared thousands of times on social media and been read over 40,000 times, making it one of the most popular articles I’ve ever written here.

In the article I highlighted how Hearst Media were using their brands like Marie Claire, Cosmopolitan and Woman’s Day to point footer links to a new website of theirs, BestProducts.com.

That strategy, which would get the rest of us penalised, continues to work incredibly well.

“Just follow the Google guidelines.” Why?

Since that post, I was also contacted by a few people associated with the brands I had featured. One of those people I talked with was Tre who works in the growth department of About.com. I had already mentioned in the article how About planned to spin off into many more verticals over the coming months, which he confirmed.

I admit I’m being a little pedantic with my highlighting, but when you’re Director of Growth for About.com you’re going to share which terms are driving traffic to one site with the team that is in charge of another.

I appreciate Tre’s replies and I’m sure there’s only so much he can say, but About.com’s real goal with their spin-off’s is to no doubt own ten search results, instead of one.

PIN’s: My Version of Fighting Back While I Still Can

When I talked about why I started using private link networks and then continued to use them after Google’s “crackdown”, my primary reason was very simple: Writing quality content and getting ‘whitehat’ links wasn’t working for me. I was being outranked by people with crappy link networks who could build their own ‘relevant’ links on a whim and I decided to fight back.

You could view PIN’s in a similar light. I am utilising them because we’re not competing on a fair playing field, and what is supposed to work is very rarely what ranks, at least in the industries that I operate in.

While I don’t wish to reveal those exact industries, let me give you an example closer to home, with ViperChill.

I will say in advance that this is a search term I really don’t care about ranking for. I have no idea how many times it’s searched for each month and honestly, I doubt it gets many searches at all.

Here are the search results for the query, ‘Future of blogging’.

My site is usually either in 10th or 11th for that term, yet by every SEO standard metric I should be number one.

I have more links to the page ranking than anyone else

I have more ‘domain authority’ than most other pages

My title tag seems more relevant than half of them

Yet in order to get more traffic for this search term, which I think I ‘deserve’ from a 10,000 word article which took me weeks to put together, all I have to do is one thing.

It’s not getting more links. It’s not improving my on-site SEO. It’s not building better connections with influencers.

All I need to do to get my traffic back is to add a sentence to the start of the article which says ‘Last updated: July 25th 2016‘.

This is a search result where how recent an article was posted is more important than whether it’s actually a good page to rank.

I don’t actually have to update the article; I literally just need to make it appear to Google – thanks to that one sentence – that my article was updated recently. This one sentence, this ‘trick’, would bring me back the ranking I feel I deserve. (Though, again, I doubt this even gets searched for. It’s just an example).

This is not theory. If you look at the first sentence of my WordPress SEO guide that’s exactly what I’ve done before, with great results.

This little change is not too dissimilar to what I need to rank in other industries. I don’t need better on-site SEO. I don’t need to build natural links from relevant sites through content marketing. I simply need to add more domains to my private link network and write more guest blog posts.

Yes, these are both tactics that are looked down upon by Google, but they still work incredibly well. In 2014 when I covered Google’s crackdown on private blog networks I did mention that they would now be less likely to care about private link networks.

In my exact words:

What I expect to happen is that Google will ease off looking into private networks. The damage is mostly done.

Why? Because they’ve already made people scared to build them. The best way to deal with people trying to game the system is essentially making us as a community police ourselves so we don’t try to game the system in the first place.

The continued use of private link networks and guest posting for SEO is part of the reason why I will get a lot of criticism from this post. How to implement these tactics more effectively, which I’ll talk about later, will be the larger reason for criticism.

The Approach to Take

One of the first ideas I had when I started out online was to assemble a team of people who could work together to build a huge website. At the time I was following the growth of TechCrunch and Mashable and saw how quickly they were able to grow thanks to having a team of writers.

My idea was to essentially connect a team of people who all worked on one website and in return everyone had a percentage ownership. The logic being that working as a team would result in the site growing faster and even if revenue or a sale price was split, we would have more success than working on our own.

It’s a similar idea a number of ViperChill readers had after reading my last article on the small number of brands dominating Google search results.

While it’s a nice idea, in theory it doesn’t work so well.

Some will want to dictate the direction of a site that others don’t agree with and more importantly, some people will put in far more work than others. If you’re writing more content than others and your articles are getting better traction, you’re going to want to increase your ownership compared to someone barely putting in any effort.

There is another option you can utilise if you wish to team up with others though, and that’s a PIN.

It comes with all of the benefits of creating your own team, without the downsides of worrying about who is contributing what work.

What the Hell is a PIN?

A PIN is a play on the acronym PBN, which is commonly referred to as a private blog or link network.

I’ve received my fair share of critics over the years for talking about PBN’s and their success – and continuing to build them – but there’s a reason I do: They work.

I simply don’t believe that playing by Google’s rules is always going to get me the results I want. In some industries I wouldn’t make the money I do without them. I don’t use them for clients, but do for my own websites.

Going forward, I think PIN’s are going to be crucial to my success in certain industries, and I think they are going to be crucial to a number of people reading this as well.

PIN, stands for Private Influencer Network.

Before you think that just means making some “friends” online and building up your connections, allow me to continue.

I define a Private Influencer Network as a group of people looking to rank their websites in Google in similar industries (but not the same) who work together to help each other reach their objectives.

Essentially, they use any opportunities they have to build links (such as private blog networks, guest blogging, interviews, blogger round-ups) to send backlinks to other people in their network. In return, other people do the same for them.

The end result is that for the work you would do to build ten backlinks, you can get twenty to forty (of the same quality) in return.

A $100,000/m PIN Operating Right Under Your Nose

I first came across a Private Influencer Network a little over a year ago. A few ‘influencers’ in a particular field were using their private blog networks to – quite simply – link to each other.

I didn’t think much of the tactic at the time, until I found another example of this happening just a few months later.

Then three months after that, I found my third example. This time it really got my attention.

A group of just five people (from what I could tell) were ranking in one of the most profitable industries online and undoubtedly making over $100,000 per month in the process. I operate in the niche, which is how I found their collaboration, and know the numbers very well.

This is when I started working on building my own, PIN.

Finally, the idea to write this blog post came to me when I found yet another PIN. One of the members of this network is one of the most well-known SEO’s on the planet and is reading this article. He already “knows I know.”

If you follow the SEO blogosphere, you’ll undoubtedly know who he is.

One of the sites they are promoting also very likely also makes more than $100,000 per month. I’m not involved in the niche, but I know others who are and with the rankings they have, those numbers wouldn’t surprise me.

I reached out to the owner of the ‘money site’ they had all teamed up to promote. I keep a private database of paid link opportunities and one of them costs more than $10,000 per year. I found their website there, so sent the main owner an email.

One months revenue spent on link building is a small price to pay when you’re doing huge numbers thanks to gaming Google.

While some would view four to five guys linking to each other to make more than $100,000/m from a one-year-old website as shady and unethical, I’m personally impressed at how well they are crushing a very competitive niche so quickly.

While there is a chance that a PIN could be “outed”, the last two examples I found were so well put together that I’m almost certain I was the only person who connected the dots.

If you’re not trying to rank in an obvious industry that’s constantly monitored by SEO’s – like blogging and internet marketing – the chances of your PIN becoming uncovered are relatively low. Much lower than having your private blog network discovered.

As you’ve probably already figured out more succinctly than I am at getting to the point, members of a PIN use any opportunity they have to ‘link out’ to take care of their whole team.

While I’ve been fairly slow on the uptake to building my own PIN, I have been slowly building them in a few industries over the last few months and I’m excited to see what the future holds.

I didn’t want to write this blog post until I had a better understanding of how to build and manage them, because managing them is actually the most time-consuming part.

You have to make sure everyone in the network is pulling their weight and giving (and getting) equal opportunities. Opportunities, of course, is code for links.

A Real-World Example of How a PIN Works

One of the websites I find myself checking for ideas and inspiration is Entrepreneur.com.

I recently found an article on the website, published by a contributor and not a staff member, which could serve as a great example for how PIN’s work.

Let me say it in bold (for those just skimming) that the example below is totally legitimate.

I’m highlighting it because it’s natural, but could have been used in a non-natural way.

While the screenshot below might be the longest ever embedded by me into a blog post, there is something much more important that I have to say about it.

There is no specific reason I have singled out this article. It was simply the first article on Entrepreneur.com when I was looking to give an example for this post. Proof of that is the date. This article is going live on July 25th whereas this article I’m featuring below is from July 22nd.

It just happened to be a great example to see a PIN (or what could be a PIN), in action.

I made the article a little shorter than the original (the screenshot was long enough, I know) but you can see the majority of it here. The first thing you’ll notice is four mentions of Weekdone. Unsurprisingly, these are all links to the company that the author works for.

A good guest article, utilised for a PIN, will link to other recommended resources that are connections of the author. The links should be relevant, but also to other people in your network so that you are ‘owed’ a link back.

Now on the surface (without my large logos stuck over the text) this looks like a totally normal article (albeit with a little overuse of linking back to the authors employer). If you do a little more research, you’ll learn that the other two highlighted companies, Zlien and Mavrck, are actually clients of Weekdone.

In other words, Weekdone likely earn some bonus points from their clients for mentioning them in an article on Entrepreneur.com. I see nothing wrong with this and it’s a one-off occurrence so it’s not done for SEO manipulation; I’m just trying to show how a PIN link looks without actually revealing one.

Essentially everything looks natural until you look under the hood. It’s normal for a client to talk about a company they use, as shown below where the relationship continues.

Once again, I’m not saying they’re doing anything wrong here. It was one of the top articles on Entreprenuer.com as I was finishing up this article (the post is only three days old) and happened to make a good example.

The truth is that Entrepreneur.com, along with Forbes and the business sections of the Huffington Post, are great resources to see mini PIN’s in action. The people who write content for these sites generally try to get as much out of writing for them as possible.

They link to their friends, and their friends link to them.

A PIN in Action

I wanted to create a graphic for this section but your understanding of the concept is far more important than your ability to decipher my poor Photoshop skills. Before it gets a little bit crazy, I have assumed that there are just two ‘influencers’ in your private network.

The yellow box is your money website (the website you wish to rank in Google).

The brown boxes are private blog sites you own (optional).

The grey boxes are link opportunities you’ve created through guest posting or similar.

While the graphic is admittedly not the prettiest (I did warn you), the concept is very simple.

Some of your private network domains will point links to the other influencer in your network, as will some of your guest posts on other websites.

In return, the other influencer will do the same for you.

Once you start adding more people to your network, things get a little bit more messy, but the principle remains the same.

When I try to visualise this with four influencers as part of your PIN it gets a little ugly, but here goes.

The golden rule you need to remember is this: If you receive a link from someone from a specific source, you need to replicate the link in kind.

So if you receive a link in a guest post from someone in the network, you need to give them a link from a guest post you write. Essentially meaning that the work you do for 10 links for yourself gets you 30-40 links in return. This number varies because sometimes it’s a bit risky (such as using blog networks) to link out to the same sites which are linking to you but you still receive more links than you would have without your network, for essentially the same work.

The Types of Links Which Are Shared

I originally tried to write these guidelines as if there were four people in a PIN but it became a little bit too complicated to read (and write). Instead, I’ll assume there are only two people in your PIN and show you what types of links you could generate or other ways to help each other.

If there are more people in your PIN, which I highly recommend, then understand that Influencer #1 will sometimes link to #2, while #4 sometimes links to number #3 and so on. It’s basically just varying the following link opportunities to keep things fair for everyone.

The types of reciprocation that can take place.

You can tweet or Facebook share an article from another influencer

You can retweet or publicly thank another influencer for mentioning you

You can utilise a guest post opportunity to link to a relevant quote or article from another influencer

If you use build private blog networks, you can use some to link to other influencers

If you find articles where comments drive traffic to your site, you can inform other influencers

When being interviewed you can link to a relevant quote or article from another influencer

Sharing link opportunities you find on your site they can utilise for theirs

Offering website design advice

Utilising Web 2.0 properties to give links and get the same in return

If performed properly, there is no reason to hide that you have a connection with other influencers in your niche. The only thing you would have to care about is that the obvious mission for having these connections is to help each other’s search engine rankings.

If you are outside of the internet marketing world you don’t really have to worry about other people finding your private link networks, but always keep a few rules in mind to avoid footprints.

Ready to Build Your Own PIN? Here’s My Advice

If you see the benefits of utilising a PIN for your own search engine rankings, and actually getting more than rankings in return, then here’s my advice for setting one up.

A PIN Must Have a Leader

As I mentioned earlier, I didn’t want to write about this topic until I had attempted to do it myself.

My short but relevant experience tells me that there has to be one person (or two at most) who is in control of the group you gather together to make sure that everyone in the team is pulling their weight.

In other words, you need to make sure that the people who are receiving links are doing their part in giving them as well.

The leader must also make sure that members of the team are active. It’s no use everyone playing along for the first few weeks while the idea is hot and then dropping off the map.

Bringing Together Your Team

While some of you may be excited about getting started on this – and some horrified that I’m even talking about it – there’s one important caveat to keep in mind.

Do not bring anyone into your team who has never shown any self-drive in terms of search engine optimisation.

If someone:

Doesn’t already have a website they wish to rank

Doesn’t regularly produce content for their own sites or others

Doesn’t have at least a basic knowledge of SEO fundamentals

Don’t invite them to be part of your network.

I assumed this would be the case from the start of building my own, but I’m even more sure of it after trying to get other people excited about the idea who weren’t actually willing to contribute to the rest of the teams’ success as a whole.

A simple test to see if someone would be right to join your network is to send a candidate over to this article and have them read about this concept for themselves.

If they don’t immediately “get” the idea and they don’t reply with something like “I can see this working well” then it’s not someone you want on your team.

You shouldn’t have to convince anyone to work with you. They should see it for themselves. If they’re against it because of ethical reasons, then that’s totally fine (and understandable) but again, it’s a sure sign that they’re not someone you want in your team.

As far as communication goes, there are a few platforms out there that would be useful.

You could create a Skype group where people get together. I certainly recommend that everyone get on a call together at least some point to make sure you all understand each other’s roles.

Slack is another good option, as you can keep up to date via their mobile app and have a history of previous agreements.

A private Facebook group is another good option.

Both Slack and Facebook allow there to be a leader who can add or remove members to the network.

The platform is really up to you. My only recommendation is not to lay out all your plans in Google Docs ;).

Take One Step Back from Your Current Niche

It should be obvious but I’ll state it anyway: You don’t want to work with people who are targeting the same keywords as you.

However, you still want to connect with people who are in a relevant niche (I’ll give you the chance to connect with ViperChill readers at the bottom of this post). For instance, if you’re promoting your real estate website then it makes sense to team up with other realtors, just not for the same region.

If you’re in the weight loss niche then it makes sense to collaborate and grow your audience with other people in that niche, but target different keywords and / or promote different types of products and services.

Whatever niche you’re in, imagine you’re shopping for that specific industry on Amazon but go back one category to find people to work with. Again, I’ll give you the opportunity to find PIN partners at the end of this article.

Footprints are Hard to Find, But Still Be Careful

From the PIN’s I’ve discovered and the ones I’m working on myself, I’ve found you really don’t have to be too careful when it comes to leaving some kind of footprint. After all, it doesn’t ring any alarm bells when Copyblogger keeps mentioning Problogger or Mashable keep linking to TechCrunch. It’s “natural” and something you can expect from the owners of websites who have developed friendships with each other.

Where you have to be careful is primarily with private blog networks and not creating footprints of clearly linking back and forth to each other from the same sites at all times. Of course, you don’t have to use private networks, but remember for each link you give out, you can get three to four back, so it can dramatically speed up the process of ranking your site.

You Need to Know How the Microphone Works

And how to sing.

One of my favourite authors, Daniel Priestley, said the following in his book The Key Person of Influence;

You don’t need to know how the microphone works, you need to know how to sing.

He was referring to the technology behind the microphone and how, when it was first invented, your time would have been better spent learning how to sing than how a microphone worked, if you wanted to reach a lot of people.

When it comes to ranking in Google, I don’t think that’s the case. You need to know how the microphone works and how to sing.

There are going to be people who worry I’m encouraging armies of people to come together to take over the Google search results.

The truth is that I don’t believe people who can’t sing – in this case, can’t produce great results for search engine users – will have much long-term success.

There’s no point putting all of the work into your PIN if the end result is going to be a crappy website.

The third example of a PIN that I mentioned earlier now easily does in excess of over $100,000 per month. What I didn’t yet tell you is that they built a fantastic resource for their industry. The site doesn’t have many pages (less than 50), but each one genuinely solves a question that a particular searcher is looking for an answer to.

I don’t view utilising a PIN as a way to “sneak” up the Google results and send thousands of visitors to an ad-riddled website.

Instead, I see it as a way to help you start getting great content noticed that could attract natural links once it is.

I mentioned at the start of this article that I would likely weed out some of the audience of ViperChill. I want to make it clear though that I’m not trying to help people with shitty websites rise to the top of Google.

While I believe there is a great opportunity here, it isn’t easy. Turning the concept into reality sounds much easier on paper (or in a blog post).

The truth is that when it comes to making money online, most people are, quite simply…lazy.

They may be excited about this idea for a few weeks but if you’re going to use this to rank in an industry worth ranking for, you should be aiming for keywords that take a few months to get any serious traction for.

Links Aside, The Connections You Build Can Be Invaluable

I’ve already briefly talked about the other benefits this kind of network can have, besides link building.

You can connect with people who have a genuine passion for your industry who in turn spur you on to put more work into your site and help you improve your online ventures. Whether that’s giving advice on your design, your writing, your strategy or anything else.

Working online can seem lonely at times, especially if your offline friends don’t have an inkling to do anything online. When you’re aiming to make money from your web projects it’s nice to find other people on the same journey.

In my future of blogging post a few years ago, one of the most popular on the site, I mentioned how some bloggers had worked together to help grow their respective audiences in the same industry.

TechCrunch and Mashable grew incredibly quickly at the same time while investors were putting more and more of their money into web-based projects. They mentioned each other thousands of times.

Smaller operations – though still huge – like Copyblogger and Problogger would guest post on each others’ sites, promote each other’s products, send traffic to each other via their email lists and essentially enhanced both of their own images through their connection.

I took the time to actually figure out how many times some sites mentioned each other, which you can see in the graphic below.

While links were a key factor in all of these partnerships, I wouldn’t essentially class them as private link building. Most of the links didn’t include any specific anchor text and they weren’t to random affiliate sites or anything like that. All of them were trying to build authoritative online businesses and found someone with a similar passion on the same journey.

While TechCrunch and Mashable were almost in direct competition with each other, they still highlighted the stories that the other site got to first. Michael Arrington later sold TechCrunch to AOL for $25m. Pete Cashmore is still the CEO of Mashable though according to Politico.com, is trying to sell the site for around $300-$350m.

That’s a partnership that certainly paid off for both of them. Pete holding out six years on his sale seems to have been a smarter choice, however.

A Facebook Group to Find PIN Partners

For what is probably a very limited time only, I’m giving access to a private Facebook group where people can assemble together to potentially build their own Private Influencer Network.

I don’t want the comments here to be full of pitching opportunities, so let’s take this elsewhere to see what industries you’re working with. To be approved for the group you must leave a comment here with your Facebook name or put your Facebook initials at the end of a comment. Facebook will likely recommend the group to people who have no idea what PIN’s are and I don’t want to do a lot of moderating.

Don’t reveal your exact niche when you start a discussion, just simply zoom out of your niche and reveal a higher category that you would like to work in. You can find the group here (remember to comment to be approved).

Thank you, as always, for reading.

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comicteaparty · 6 years

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September 6th, 2018 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on September 6th, 2018, from 5PM - 7PM PDT. The chat focused on MORBIDITY by Charu.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB START!

Good evening, everyone~! This week’s Thursday Book Club is officially beginning! Today we are discussing MORBIDITY by Charu~! (https://tapas.io/series/MORBIDITY)

Remember that Thursday discussions are completely freeform! However, every 30 minutes I will drop in OPTIONAL discussion questions in case you’d like a bit of a prompt. If you miss out on one of these prompts, you can find them pinned for the chat’s duration. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is fun and respectfully appreciating the comic. All that said, let’s begin!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

Superjustinbros

Ello!

RebelVampire

good day, SJ

Superjustinbros

Good day to you as well

RebelVampire

lets see, i think not so much a full scene, but one of my favorite moments is when Yuuto asks Keagan why Keagan let him in if Keagan doesn't recognize him. and keagan just has the best expression while saying he wonders himself. it was such a great insert of comedy in that moment that i couldnt help but laugh. i also think it was kind of a great showcase for keagan's personality as well

Superjustinbros

https://tapas.io/episode/1111726 I dunno why but I got a bit of a chuckle out of this scene

With how... sudden the tone changed

RebelVampire

i do enjoy how confused keagan looks in this part. i like the sense of ominous with that broken piece on the plant though. it screams with beautiful foreshadowing i hope at least.

Superjustinbros

Yeah

RebelVampire

ive also been enjoying how the recent chapter has been going. mostly with how its framed in that we never really get to see who i assume is ryo really. its focused on keagan and i like that it makes ryo seem a tad more mysterious

saetje

My favorite scene is definitely near the end of the content where Ryo starts freaking out/getting corrupted. I think it’s at that point we’re getting a sort of taste for a mood shift that’s going to be happening

Superjustinbros

I couldn't think of a good way to mention that little... episode earlier

but it definitely seems strange(edited)

saetje

I also agree I like that ryo is only seen through Keegan’s eyes right now. Solely focusing on Keegan’s perspective leaves ryo on a pedestal currently. I have a feeling we’re going to learn more about ryo later, but it’s smart to start us off through Kaegan’s eyes

RebelVampire

i like how with the whole mood shift that ryo was super accurate in that he was spoiling the mood. i particularly loved when yuuto caught up to ryo cause at that point just the sheer imagery and what was going on made me feel that the situation was truly dangerous

mathtans

I made it. ^^ Rebel, I liked that same scene, where Yuuto then remarks on how it's good he's trustworthy or whatnot.

Superjustinbros

MATH

mathtans

I didn't even notice the planet, whoa.

Hi all!

Superjustinbros

The end of the chapter looks like the start of some kind of crazy creepypasta(edited)

mathtans

Yuuto's attitude in general is pretty fun in my mind (okay if I play games?) but it definitely took a turn with the reactions towards the end. I think he didn't do his research on Keagan.

RebelVampire

haha it does kind of have a creepypasta vibe. i can picture the reddit thread for r/nosleep now. XD

to be fair to yuuto its been like 16 years so ryo would be a poor source of keagan info and maybe keagan is an internet hermit who doesnt even have facebook

saetje

I think it’s an interesting thought that kaegan’s attachment to Ryo is a little selfish. It seems as though it’s literally tethering Ryo’s ghost from moving on and putting his spirit (and others?) in danger, as well as ruining kaegan’s own relationships and life. Kaegan does seem quite overly obsessed(edited)

mathtans

It's possible. I wonder if Ryo was paying more attention to Keagan for a long time (either of his own volition or not) and only recently got his brother involved... then Yuuto didn't realize how bad things were.

seatje: Agreed. I wonder if maybe he was partly responsible for Ryo's death.

saetje

Oh that’s an interesting thought, math!

RebelVampire

yeah tbh i adore how grey it is. cause you could make an argument equally as valid in saying its selfish for ryo to ask keagan to move on. and i love that cause its what makes the conflict complicated and complex. cause there isnt one right answer cause you just cant make ppl feel things you want to feel at the drop of a hat.

saetje

So true

mathtans

I can't think of another good reason why he'd obsess that much. Even if they were lovers (which is kind of implied), I figure there has to be more to it...?

Yup, humans are a complex mess.

RebelVampire

nah they werent lovers cause huge age diff. i think the summary says it was a one-sided crush.

Superjustinbros

Right they are, math

RebelVampire

so theres def something fishy going on here

mathtans

I'm actually kind of reminded of a serial I wrote on a similar topic, which occurred to me as I was reading too. It's a good theme to build on.

saetje

I’m a little confused by the timeline- was kaegan young and just had a crush on an older ryo or did they get to a point of being consenting lovers?

Oh! Rebel answered

mathtans

Rebel: Ahh, good point, missed that. Guess I jumped to conclusions given the circumstances of when we first heard the name.

RebelVampire

“Nine year old Keagan had a onesided crush on eightteen year old Ryo. Then, Ryo died. Nearly sixteen years later Ryo's little brother Yuuto comes into Keagan's life to tell him to "get over Ryo's death".”

just so everyone can be on the same page

Superjustinbros

Thanks, Rebel.

RebelVampire

i take the implication to be that ryo died when keagan was 9

saetje

Okay, there you go! Thank you

RebelVampire

which man, props to keagan for A+ memory. i barely remember anything from when i was 9 XD

mathtans

Could still have been somewhat responsible though, even if young.

I barely remember things from last week sometimes. O.o

Superjustinbros

I remember a lot of things from my childhood

just saying

I practically remember how all the rooms in my house looked when I was that age

saetje

I was just thinking that, ha. Sixteen years is a long time to hold onto something, especially from childhood in such a strong way. But I guess it was also such a traumatic event for him, which tends to stick more too

Superjustinbros

and how my schools looked at the time I attended.

RebelVampire

yeah i guess if were being fair id have remembered a traumatic death. but it implies super closeness i think that goes beyond a one-sided crush. so theres definitely more to see there

QUESTION 2. While it’s clear that Keagan and Ryo had past history, a lot is left to question. How do you believe Keagan and Ryo met, especially considering their age difference? Why do you think Keagan crushed so hard on Ryo despite the age difference between them? Do you think the attachment to Ryo was born purely out of affection, or do you think there’s more to Keagan’s past that explains the attachment? Do you think the way Ryo died has something to do with why Keagan can’t move forward? Or is it something in general perhaps about Keagan’s past history with Ryo? Lastly, why do you think Keagan remembers Ryo so well but seems completely clueless about Yuuto?

gives self A+ for beautiful segway

mathtans

Or segue, even.

saetje

Oh that’s true- how could he not know yuuto?

mathtans

Maybe Yuuto's a half-brother?

saetje

I have a thought that yuuto may be a trans man? So perhaps he transitioned and presented as a girl on the past?

Superjustinbros

I wonder, if Ryo didn't die, would Keagan find it more easy to move forward?

mathtans

Yuuto's also younger, so maybe Ryo left home at 16 or something and didn't talk about his family.

saetje

Just feels as though the artist is fairly good at drawing anatomy of all sexes, not shying away from lgbt content, and yuuto seems intentionally more slender and androgynous. But it’s just a passing thought/hunch , I could be wrong

mathtans

On the topic of how they met... maybe they met online first? Or through some sort of spiritual connection? That could also explain the difficulty in letting go.

saetje

Yeah it’s also possible he never met Yuuto?

Superjustinbros

What was technology like back when Keagan was younger

I wonder

mathtans

Saeje: Could be, I guess based on some of the Q&A stuff I just see him as a guy with his own style.

Superjustinbros

Cause when I was that age the internet was like, brand new

mathtans

That who never met Yuuto, Keagan or Ryo himself?

saetje

Ah, I tend to skim q&a stuff so it’s possible I missed some key character insights

RebelVampire

dont discount the trans theory. never impossible. and i assume theyre following our time line so internet was probably like it was 16 years ago.

i feel like keagan must of met yuuto tho

just cause yuuto showed up thinking keagan would obviously know him somehow

and if they never met there is no reason for yuuto to assume that

and in all honesty it seems most likely that keagan met ryo through yuuto

just cause yuuto and keagan seem closer in age maybe

mathtans

I guess I just assumed that the "would obviously know" part came from the fact that if you're obsessing over a guy for 15+ years, you'd look into his family. Come to think, maybe they met at the funeral and Keegan simply doesn't recall that.

Assuming that there was a funeral, and it's not a case of Ryo's body vanishing after being murdered by an evil demon that Keagan unleashed upon the world.

saetje

just found this on the 'q&a' section, but might not be canon:(edited)

mathtans

(Oh no, new channel, I can't do my trolling face...)

Superjustinbros

Dawwww!!!

saetje

so I'm probably wrong aaand! I guess they did know each other, but it's just likely Kaegan didn't recognize him right away. I mean his style did change quite a lot

mathtans

Right, I saw that, I guess I didn't immediately think it was an actual photo as much as an artist rendering.

RebelVampire

ah yeah i was just gonna point that image out from the Q&A!

mathtans

Yuuto dyes the hair now.

Superjustinbros

well people do change a lot when they age

mathtans

I wonder if he went into the practice in part because of whatever happened to Ryo.

Maybe it used to be Ryo's thing.

Now gotta pick up the slack in the family.

RebelVampire

yeah to be fair if yuuto and keagan lost contact, of course he probably doesnt recognize yuuto after 16 years old.

Superjustinbros

Exactly

saetje

yeah

RebelVampire

and yuuto is silly in retrospect to expect that. but hard to say what the nature of the relationship was

maybe keagan and yuuto were bestest friends, yuuto introduced keagan to ryo, and then keagan was like "who are you im busy crushing on this cool older fellow"

saetje

It's not improbable they (kaegan and yuuto) were friends first, and Kaegan just crushed real bad on the older brother, which would also make sense why it was so one-sided but they would also be hanging out (as he was probably hanging out with/chaperoning his little brother, and consequently his little brother's friends as well)(edited)

mathtans

Maybe it's something a bit more supernatural. Like, Keagan tried some sort of "forget" spell on Ryo but it backfired so much that he forgot Yuuto instead.

RebelVampire

thatd be tragic, tho would be more likely itd be yuuto doing the spell casting.

albeit to this notion of keagan and yuuto being friends, we dont really see yuuto in the flashbacks so far so its also possible something else was going on. like ryo was keagan's tutor or something

im gonna go out on a limb and suspect that keagan did not have a happy home life

and thus the attachment to ryo cause ryo was an adult who was showing him kindness

mathtans

That's a very good thought.

Interesting how in the bit of flashback we've seen, Ryo is trying to get Keagan to skate on his own, metaphor for life?

Superjustinbros

Oh yea

That would traumatize someone, seeing an adult that they once loved died

RebelVampire

oh ya know what, i wasnt even reading that scene metaphorically. good catch, math~!

metaphorically i certainly is very telling of what keagan is feeling

mathtans

Seems like even back then, before Ryo died, Keagan had issues. Tied in with your unhappy home life thing.

Superjustinbros

RebelVampire

but im just taking a stab in the dark tbf. i just feel like theres gotta be more than one-sided crush. and that ryo's death is tied up in personal demons

albeit you could be right that keagan somehow caused ryo's death

mathtans

Keagan introduced the cat, not knowing about the deadly cat allergy.

RebelVampire

has it been stated how ryo died?

mathtans

If so, I missed it.

I just offer up my crazy theories.

RebelVampire

i dont recall either so how ryo died could have a lot to do with things even if keagan didnt cause it

QUESTION 3. The entire plot of the comic is essentially based around one question: will Keagan be able to move on from Ryo? What do you think is holding Keagan back exactly? Is it fear of the future without Ryo, true love, or some sort of inner demon? Do you think Keagan is sincere when he says he has tried to move on, or do you suspect self-sabotage? Even if Keagan gets over Ryo, do you think Ryo will successfully be able to move on? How do you even think Keagan might get over Ryo? Also, what do you think Yuuto and/or Suzy’s role if any might be in helping him move forward? Finally, do you have any theories in general for future events of the comic?

mathtans

I feel like it's one of those things where after you move on, you're worried you'll forget details... which is true enough. But Keagan's got himself so tied up in it that he might forget things about himself. I don't know that it's anything external.

RebelVampire

oh ya know what, i never thought of it from that perspective. that he doesnt want to move on cause hes afraid of all the memories vanishing in the breeze

mathtans

Also, I think Keagan might have tried to move on in the past, but after it didn't work a couple times he just goes through the motions now to appease others around him.

Not just memories of Ryo, but memories of how happy he was back then. Maybe the happiest he'd ever been?

Superjustinbros

Perhaps

Then again it can be hard to move on form something

and even if you do, memories of what happened can still haunt you(edited)

RebelVampire

tbf this makes me reconsider that maybe keagan's attachment is not bred from a bad past, but a lackluster present.

Superjustinbros

That could be the case

RebelVampire

in that maybe keagan has continually had life issues that have made him cling to that happiness

like what does keagan do for a living even O_O maybe he missed out on dat dream job

mathtans

Could be a bit of both.

Maybe he's an insurance salesman.

"Please buy this life insurance... I have this whole story about how sad people will be if you die..."

RebelVampire

spirit insurance. if only yuuto had come to him sooner, yuuto couldve gotten ryo's spirit state ensured. yuuto is gonna miss out on that sweat afterlife policy money now

in regards to keagan's sincerity in trying to move on, i actually think it was subconscious self-sabotage. so in that he was doing everything he was told mentally and physically, but there was that small tiny part of his brain continually whispering how nothing would ever be right again without ryo

mathtans

Which reminds me, I wonder where Yuuto had to go to get the stone.

There probably was some self-sabotage, or at least Ryo seemed keen on calling him on that.

Maybe Yuuto was guided to find the stone by Ryo...? Wait, no, because Ryo didn't even think it would work. We're not sure what any of their day jobs are, are we?

RebelVampire

well yuuto said he was a spirit medium. albeit doesnt mean thats a career technically speaking. idk if being a spirit medium can pay these days without people staring and accusing you of being a fraud. or ya know if you get a reality tv show.

cleary the entire comic is just a tv show hoax so yuuto can become the most prolific spirit medium on tv

mathtans

A spirit medium's rare.

He seems to know what he's doing though. I wonder if Ryo sought him out for that reason, or if it's just a freebie for the family.

Superjustinbros

Now that'd be quite a twist

RebelVampire

that or ryo just had nowhere to go. i mean its like theres much to do as a ghost i imagine

cause you cant touch things or anything

or talk to anyone

you just float around and look at stuff

but considering the cover to chapter 1, i will say that its not just keagan holding ryo back. cause ryo is clearly chained to both yuuto and keagan and i dont think yuuto has quite moved on himself.

mathtans

Oh, that's an interesting point with the visual. Does the chaining work both ways, I wonder, or is it a matter of Yuuto's moved on but is still linked to Ryo out of necessity?

Ghost karaoke might be pretty neat.

Superjustinbros

Poor Ryo :<

For real tho ghost karaoke sounds metal as heck(edited)

mathtans

As far as the future of the comic goes, I figure we'll see the results of a spirit being darkened somehow, either directly or in the history books or something.

RebelVampire

oooooh

did not consider that but i hope thats the case

that we actually get to see a vengeful spirit not ryo

cause i feel like keagan is the type who goes by the mantra seeing is believing

in the sense that yuuto will tell him, keagan will be like "suuuure"

and then vengeful spirit will be seen and keagan will be like "RYO NOOOOOO"

mathtans

"You see this building?" "No." "That's because a ghost KNOCKED IT DOWN." "Ahhhh!" ^.^

Do you think Ryo can see other spirits? Like, would have an idea of what's happening to himself? Or is it not obvious internally?

RebelVampire

idk about seeing other spirits but maybe? i do think ryo has some idea about whats happening to him tho. cause i get the impression that its not so much the spirit ceases to be themselves as it is that they become engulfed in their own emotional vengence and can think of nothing else

mathtans

Ryo: "Look, the ghost of Christmas Future."

RebelVampire

but dont quote me on that, cause theres a lot to be learned about spirits

mathtans

Ooh, emotional vengence is an interesting one... do you think Ryo might hurt Keagan? (And that Keagan would just totally take it?)

RebelVampire

QUESTION 4. Events in the comic come about solely because of the actions of the mysterious Yuuto. Do you believe Yuuto’s motivations are purely to protect his brother’s spirit, or do you think he might be up to something else? How do you think Yuuto wound up becoming a spirit medium? Was it family tradition, a career choice for Yuuto to connect with spirits (and his brother by extension), or was it happenstance? Considering it’s been 16 years, why do you think Yuuto waited so long to come to Keagan? Did Ryo’s spirit only come to Yuuto’s attention recently, or did Yuuto feel no need to take action until Ryo was becoming a vengeful spirit? Additionally, why do you think Ryo has been stable as a spirit over all those years and is only now coming undone? What consequences would there be if Ryo became a vengeful spirit at the end?

RebelVampire

if ryo became of vengful spirit then yes

cause the vengful part implies vengence

and clearly the vengence is gonna be aimed at the ppl not letting you move on

Superjustinbros

Well it's part of the name

mathtans

Could just be aimed at humans in general. Or for that matter, at spirit mediums, maybe that's part of the reason Yuuto's motivated. Doesn't want ghosts messing up his profession.

RebelVampire

could be. it actually would also depend how mindful of vengful spirit is. cause if theyre driven by pure emotion than they might not be consciously able to target their hurt and just lash out at anyone

mathtans

Also, maybe Ryo hasn't been stable as a spirit over all those years? Maybe he was more etherial, and it's only in the last year or so that he's been able to manifest himself to Yuuto.

RebelVampire

that could be

Superjustinbros

Seems like that could be the case, @mathtans

He's never been stable cause he's had someone latching onto him for years

even in death

He can never escape affection

RebelVampire

or ya know, we have no idea how long yuuto has been a medium

maybe yuuto has literally been a medium for all of 2 weeks

and just happens to be smug about it XD

mathtans

He graduated from being a small last year.

Maybe he's not even the most powerful medium in town, just the one most connected? Keagan might seek out others for more information.

I wonder if Ryo can possess people, now that he's levelling up.

saetje

That would be scary

I’m interested to know how like a corrupted ghost like ryo could/will harm those around them

mathtans

Oh! Maybe Keagan is just a prognosticator, because Ryo is going to possess Suzy, and that's why he used the name at the start.

"I have foreseen this."

Superjustinbros

Guess this is gonig further into the idea that this story's gonna get a lot more creepier

mathtans

I think it can still be lighthearted though. In fact, that makes some of the other moments (a la Release Me) all the more eye opening.

Superjustinbros

Yea

good point

RebelVampire

possession would certainly be quite dangerous. though idk how that fulfills vengence. unless the plan is to possess keagan, spend all keagan's money, and then roll out

Superjustinbros

Christ

that's cold

mathtans

"I spent it all on potato chips."

Superjustinbros

I would totally do that

RebelVampire

if im going to assume yuuto is actually also chaining ryo to the mortal plane, i actually want to assume ryo has been around for a while and yuuto himself just didnt want to do anything about it. and was like "nah its fine well get you to move on soon bro lets spend time together." and only now when ryo is going crazy is yuuto like "oops"

but this begs a question suddenly

how the heck did they even know its keagan's fault?

like is there magic ghost senses going on here?

are they just visiting everyone who knew ryo and accusing them?

Superjustinbros

All this time I was thinking "who is this ghost boy just chilling around everyone" until I noticed it's Ryo

mathtans

I suppose I just figured that Ryo would know who was tying him down/thinking of him.

Given the need to have the stone, I don't think they'd be walking around semi-randomly.

I'm also not convinced that Yuuto is tying him down. Maybe he's just acting as an anchor, like, to keep you from getting pulled way over there to the dark places, hold onto a piece of me.

Superjustinbros

I can see that

mathtans

Though it could have morphed into something else over all this time.

Maybe even something neither of them see.

What with both of them wearing glasses.

Superjustinbros

Lol

mathtans

Actually, any comments on art style? I'm very bad for really noticing that stuff. Nice shading though?

Superjustinbros

It's got some good shading, I'll say.

Backgrounds aren't super detailed but that's alright since they're not the focus

https://tapas.io/episode/1089748 Though some of the more trippy ones like these are cool

mathtans

Spirit craziness.

Superjustinbros

Playing with spirits is some really trippy stuff

"What kind of drugs are you taking"

mathtans

That androgynous look that sae brought up is a good point too; I can see it, but Yuuto still comes across as male (and in the genderbend art for q&a as female).

RebelVampire

visually i think the comic stands out most when the tone shifts to the creepy. cause thats when the effects really are A+ and just capture that nice unsettling feel

Superjustinbros

Exactly

saetje

I think the art is pretty good! Artist has a good eye for anatomy, I appreciate the character designs.

I agree the art style is neat when it gets creepy

Superjustinbros

Anatomy especially

Plus the creepy stuff is out of place that it can surprise the viewer when comparing it to the comic's normal art

saetje

Yeah, they vary their body types and really understand anatomy! Very solid character construction

Superjustinbros

Indeed

saetje

Ohh yeah good point Superjustinbros

It sort of gives this vibe of duality

Superjustinbros

Indeed

Like you got a normal world

and a creepy spiritual one

like dimensional rifts between two universes that don 't belong

saetje

Yeah!

mathtans

I liked seeing how some of the character designs shifted in the behind the scenes stuff.

As for my usual shipping thoughts.... hmmm... Suzy and Yuuto? He did feel bad for her. ^.-

saetje

He also seemed to check her out walking up the stairs

RebelVampire

i do hope suzy has a role in this because at the very least i hope she gets her underwear back XD

saetje

Ha! Also bras are expensive so, yeah, definitely.

mathtans

Oh, right! That little whistle.

Superjustinbros

Gotta go for that underwear! XD

saetje

She needs those back

Superjustinbros

Definitely

mathtans

It's interesting that Yuuto has an earring which is an inverted cross too, I think.

Superjustinbros

Well this is the last minute, so I'd like to say good luck to charuchii on continuing the comic.

mathtans

I'm all for more Suzy partly to see if she has some girl friends she talks to as well. Normal people.

Superjustinbros

It was fun chatting~

mathtans

It's a very interesting premise!

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB END!

Sadly, this wraps up this week’s Thursday Book Club chat for now. Thank you so much to everyone for reading and joining us! We want to give a special thank you to Charu, as well, for making MORBIDITY. If you liked the comic, make sure to support Charu’s efforts however you’re able to~!

Read and Comment: https://tapas.io/series/MORBIDITY

Charu’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/charuchii

Comic Tea Party- Thursday Book Club

Next week’s Thursday Book Club will be about Gemini Journey by Tracy MacLauchlan & Yesenia Carrero. For participants, you have the next week to read as much of the comic as you would like~! We hope to see you on Thursday, September 13th, from 5PM to 7PM PDT for the chat in #thursday_bookclub!

Comic’s Main Site: http://geminijourney.com/

Comic’s LINE Webtoon Mirror: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/gemini-journey/list?title_no=111693

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indiecomics #comic chat #comic discussion #book club #bookclub #webcomic book club #webcomic bookclub #comic book club #comic bookclub #comic tea party #ctp #morbidity #charu

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