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air-in-words · 9 months

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Anastasia: SortingHatChats

Hey, guys, I back now.

Anastasia time.

So, as a DISCLAIMER: THIS FILM IS A WORK OF FICTION. I highly recommend looking into the actual history behind the film if you're interested!

Here we go!

(I seem to recall there being a sorting already posted of Anastasia, but I remember disagreeing with most of it? Absolutely no offense meant to whoever originally posted it! These are just my two cents!)

ANASTASIA/ANYA

BADGER PRIMARY

Anya's entire storyline revolves around the ideas of "family," "home," and "belonging." Not just her own, personal family (which would be Snake,) not necessarily the home she remembers being born into (as far as she knows, she's an orphan,) and not only her own state of belonging. She deals in the concept of these things as though they were basic necessities: everyone should want them, and she wants them because everyone needs them in order to be whole. This is truth to her, full stop.

Anya: "Do you think you're gonna miss it?"

Dimitri: "Miss what, your talking?

Anya: "No! Russia."

Dimitri: "Nope."

Anya: "But it was your home!"

Dimitri: It was a place I once lived. End of story."

Anya: "Well, then you must plan on making Paris your true home."

Dimitri: "What is it with you and homes?!"

Anya: "Well, for one thing, it's something that every normal person wants!"

This is not a belief system, nor is it a conclusion she's come to. It's something that is such a part of her make up as a human being, that to imagine that another person doesn't care about the concept of a "true home" or "true community" is downright disturbing to her. Her desire for "home, love, family" is not her trying to seek out individuals she already knows, but to find the space she came from, filled with strangers she's never met, but who she believes will accept her through the power of community. It reads very animated Hercules, often dreaming of a far off place where a voice keeps saying, THIS is where I'm meant to be. Badger Primaries love the idea of having a secret family they've never met that will swoop in and carry them away, loving them unconditionally, when the world immediately around them has been so cruel. Lonely Badger Primaries are the perfect characters to fall in love with the idea of being long lost royalty. The main character arc Anya goes through is learning that family is not just the people who gave birth to you: Found family is not only just as powerful, but can become even moreso over time. This is the same moral the animated Hercules learns! Belonging and community is created and watered like a garden: If you keep searching for your perfect, idealized community, you might miss the one forming right before your eyes.

LION SECONDARY

It doesn't take long to pin Anya as a rather loud Lion Secondary. She is unafraid to voice her opinions, and often does so in a blunt and unashamed way. SShe absolutely DESPISES lying, and she is the first to take the easiest, most straight forward way out.

Dimitri: (trying to detach a traincar after breaking multiple tools) "COME ON, there's gotta be something in there better than this!!"

Anya: (wordlessly hands Dimitri a stick of lit dynamite)

Dimitri: "That'll work!"

What this movie actual shows is an interesting, not as often explored aspect of the Badger Lion, which is how the brash and straightforward nature of the Lion Secondary can work against the desires of the Badger Primary. Anya longs for nothing more than home and community, but often inadvertently (and not so inadvertently) alienates those around her with her cutting phrasing. It takes a more grounded, good listener like Vlad to see past Anya's brashness almost immediately, understanding the intentions behind her bravado.

Vlad: "I see an engaging and fiery young woman, who on a number of occasions has shown a regal command equal to any royal in the world!"

DIMITRI

SNAKE PRIMARY (Initially Burnt)

Dimitri's storyline is a bit deeper than many people might initially realize. What we're looking at is a Snake Primary who, at a very young age, tried to save one of their People (the Princess Anastasia, for whom he is implied to have either a childhood friendship with or just a faraway crush,) and failed, horribly. In fact, they failed to the point that they believe they are at least partially to blame for the death of that Person. That's about as deep and dark of a hole as a Snake Primary can fall into, so the Snake Primary will, naturally, Burn and find new, non-Person things to fill that void. Namely, recognition and fortune.

Dimitri: "Imagine the reward her dear old grandmama will pay!"

Of course,this could point to Glory Hound Lion, just as easily. If not for his Snake Primary sneaking in at every possible moment. The line following that one above is:

Dimitri: "Who else could pull it off but you and me?"

The "you" in question being Vlad, the only other Person Dimitri has allowed in (and by "allowed in," I always assumed got so tired of Vlad actively FORCING HIMSELF into Dimitri's life that he acquiesced and decided to just let him stay.) But, Dimitri's obsession with the Princess Anastasia continues, against all odds. His latest con? Directly Princess Anastasia related. Is it enough for the woman they hire to play her be "good enough?" NO. She has to be PERFECT. They hold AUDITIONS, and Dimitri is the perfect person to be on the board, because Dimitri still knows her intimately well, even after all these years. Such as hum recognizing Anastasia's face in Anya's right from the start. Thus, comes Dimitri's initial inner turmoil in regards to Anya: Are his feelings just projection? Is he attracted to her JUST because she looks like Anastasia? Is he ACTUALLY that obsessed? All those questions become moot when Anya is revealed to truly be Anastasia, though Dimitri finds himself where he was as a boy. From this point on in the movie, pretty much every motivation/choice Dimitri makes revolves around the fact that Anya IS Anastasia, and that he is going to give her what she wants and deserves, no matter what it takes. Even if that means keeping himself away from her romantically. His character arc revolves around forgiving himself for what he perceived as a dire mistake against one of his People, which is a ROUGH arc for a Snake to go through.

Dimitri: "Paris holds the key to her past. Yes, Princess, I've found you at last! No more pretend. You'll be gone, that's the end..."

SNAKE SECONDARY

Dimitri is actually quite a good con, all things considered. He manages to trick Anya into thinking they have train tickets when they DEFINITELY do not, and he keeps the reward under wraps for the entirety of their trip. Not just that, but dodging around obstacles instead of facing them head on is his most natural state. As a child, he is seen sneaking out of the kitchens (where be belongs) and automatically offering the servants' quarters as a means of escape, which is extremely clever and resourceful. Dimitri tries to charm and placate Anya at every turn, trying to keep her naturally explosive personality under wraps.

Anya: "The baggage car...? There wouldn't be anything wrong with our papers now, would there, maestro..?"

Dimitri: "Of course not, Your Grace! It's just that I hate to see you forced to mingle with all those commoners..."

But, we spend most of the film seeing Dimitri forced out of his comfort zone by both the situation and Anya's combative Lion Secondary, so he's often seen conspiratorially complaining to Vlad while in his Neutral State or just outright losing his temper and yelling. But, this never comes first, and his plans and plots are always somewhat circumventing. During the train derailment, his plans are to jump off, disconnect the train cars, and just wait until the train coasts to a stop. All pretty passive/out of the box thinking. When he IS shown trying to face someone head on, he is always unsuccessful: Trying to fight for Anastasia during the siege only to be immediately knocked out, trying to take on Rasputin directly and being tossed aside pretty easily. Comparatively, Anya/Anastasia is shown to be successful when she is upfront and combative: Getting away from Rasputin as a child by kicking him in the face, ultimately defeating Rasputin by straight up smashing his reliquary.

VLAD

LION PRIMARY

Vlad is a pretty classic Paragon Lion Primary. He wants to do what is Good and Right and doesn't what is Bad and Wrong. For what reason would he wind up as a con artist as a Paragon Lion, though? Even for Paragon Lions, what is Good and Right to THEM can go against what the collective believes is good and right.

Vlad: "That's what I hate about this government. Everything is in red!"

Yes, the above line is also meant to be a coded message for Dimitri, but Vlad thinks the government has overstepped his moral boundaries and has chosen to step outside the usual bounds to follow his own morals. Part of those morals involve guiding those he believes are lost, thus, his "adoption" of Dimitri, a very lost young man with little direction. He tries to act as Dimitri's "moral compass" until Dimitri finds his own direction again. He does the same for Anya when she comes into their group, trying to lead her towards the possibility of finding her home, while gently guiding her away from focusing on her "past."

Vlad: "There is nothing left for you back there, my dear. Everything is in Paris."

He stands up for what he believes in, and inserts himself constantly when he believes Dimitri is wrong. Letting him know when he's "walking away too soon" or when he "has to talk to her" even if she's a Princess and Dimitri's a Kitchen Boy.

BADGER SECONDARY

Vlad is one of the kindest, most lovingly genuine characters I've encountered in fiction, and I mean with that with all my heart. He is consistently gentle and understanding with the people he comes across, and is always even-tempered and fair. Compare Vlad and Dimitri's reactions to finding Anya skulking around their home:

Dimitri: (shouting, from across the room) "HEY! What are you doing in here?! HEY! STOP!"

Vlad: (coming in at a light jog, holding up his hand politely) "Excuse me, child!"

Vlad always assumes the best from whomever he's interacting with, and is excellent at getting to the root of what's bothering a person. He actively tries to make everyone in his company comfortable, and will often make soft jokes or observations in an attempt to lighten the mood. His Lion Primary makes him unable to entirely give in when he knows what's going on is wrong, but his Badger Secondary gives him the skills to broach those uncomfortable topics with grace and eloquence.

Vlad: (gives Dimitri the most fatherly, loving hug in all of animation) "Ahhh, my boy... you are making a mistake."

TL;DR

Anya/Anastasia: Badger Lion

Dimitri: Double Snake

Vlad: Lion Badger

And, there we go! Anastasia was one of my absolute FAVORITE movies as a child, so I've really enjoyed getting an opportunity to sort them! Let me know your thoughts! :)

#sorting hat chats #sortinghatchats #shc #anastasia movie #anya anastasia #dimitri anastasia #vlad anastasia #dimitri x anya #anya x dimitri #badger primary #lion secondary #snake primary #snake secondary #lion primary #badger secondary #badger lion #double snake #lion badger

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mysticalenthusiastvoid · 10 months

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I'm trying to figure out one of my character's secondaries. They suggest going to a Waffle House because the reason is they're going to be assumed to be drunk or high during a conversation. I'm thinking Bird or possibly Snake.

#bird secondary #snake secondary #sorting hat chats #secondaries #Or maybe the Waffle House thing is something I would do late at night and need to talk about alternate dimensions and aliens

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sevilemar · 10 months

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Wanna share a little snake sec revenge story with y'all:

I am doing a 'get help with finding a new job' course atm. For the first time, I introduced myself as nonbinary in a prefessional-ish setting, and I got a pained look from the instructor for my troubles, and an audible sigh from the direction of two guys, the oldest and the youngest. Dunno who it was. So I took it upon myself (or rather the opportunities presented themselves so beautifully), to make all of them eat their shit.

The first recess we got, I saw the oldest guy coming towards me while I was eating my breakfast. I made eye contact, was open and inviting in my body language, and when he sat down next to me, we talked in what I call working-class-guy mentality, dashed with enough of his regional accent to make him comfortable. He ended up driving me home after class every day.

For the instructor, I was my usual 'helpful in a training' self, which means paying attention to their words, reacting with laughs and body language, and asking good questions. Also being on time and helping others, but I do that anyway.

And for the personal touch, I mimed my final presentation. Didn't say a word except for answering questions at the end. Why? Because I could, and because the instructor jokingly said in the beginning that we might even dance the presentation, as long as the others understand. And apparently, my miming and powerpoint skills are good enough. Now, whenever she makes that joke, she will have to think of me :P

Incidentally, my success with the presentation was also the moment I felt true respect from the youngest guy. He was very no-nonsense with his facts, and brash in his manner, quite confrontational at times. Beautiful young lion sec, and possible double lion, if you ask me.

Anyway, he was very down to earth and respected results and competence, so I gave hime a bit of contra in some insignificant class discussions (early bird vs. night owl), and then the 'agree to disagree' line as to not disrupt class. I also asked down-to-earth questions at his presentation. In the end, I could see the respect after my presentation, and he didn't even had anything contrary to say about it.

I made all three people who had obvious negative reactions to my gender identity leave with a positive impression of me as a person. And because I'm likely the only openly nonbinary person they'll ever meet, I forced them into associating nonbinary with someone positive, however fleeting and insubstantial. If that's not a petty, personal, and positive revenge, then I don't know what is.

#sortinghatchats #snake secondary #nonbinary

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arizonaraine · 2 months

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Sorting Hat Chats: Zootopia

(Have I talked about how much I love this movie? Because I love this movie.)

Judy Hopps might be the Lion-i-est Lion primary to ever Lion. Seriously. From the time she's a little girl, she has this internal conviction that she needs to "make the world a better place." She loves her family in Bunnyburrow, but is perfectly fine with heading out on her own, moving to the big city to fulfill her dreams. Her passion, her drive, is internal and idealistic. She believes so much in the idea of Zootopia. It guides her decisions, the advice she gives, and the way she treats other people. When she acts out of line with her values-- her careless comments about predators are used as justification for mistreating them by the media and by Bellweather-- it eats her up inside. She resigns from the police department and moves home, but is despondent. She's on the verge of burning until her conversation with her parents and Gideon Gray, which proves to her that 1. her idealism made a change in their lives and 2. the fight isn't over! Her Lion spark is reignited, and she speeds off to Zootopia to make things right. She ends the story a more mature Lion: recognizing that "life is more complicated than a slogan on a bumper sticker," but still working to make that dream of Zootopia true.

I think she's a Badger Secondary. Yes, she can be a shouty and charge-y like a Lion, but I think that her real strength is connecting with the people around her. Like Captain America, she creates assets. She uses Nick's street smarts and leverages her connection with Bellweather to access the Jam Cams at City Hall. She and Nick are saved from being iced by the mobster because of the warmth and kindness with which she treats his daughter. She also showcases the Bookkeeper aspect of this secondary through her nose-to-the-grindstone, "I'm not going to write 100 tickets, I'm going to write 200 tickets before noon!" approach to becoming a cop.

Nick Wilde starts the story a burned Badger primary. The childhood trauma that forged him was being rejected by a group. All he wanted was to join the Junior Ranger Scouts: he was excited to put on a uniform and be part of their community. When he's bullied for being a predator, he burns. He looks sort of like a Snake when Judy first meets him-- kinda hedonistic, only looking out for himself-- but as the story progresses, his true Badger self starts to shine through. He knows everyone: Otterton the florist, the mob boss, Flash the sloth... He stands up for Judy to Boggo. He's a mix of trepidatious and excited when Judy suggests that he join the police force. He refuses to abandon her when she's injured, insisting that they come up with another plan. And in the end, he joins the force! He's finally part of a community.

I'm going use Occam's Razor here and say that he's a Snake secondary. One could argue that he's just modeling Snake because that's what's expected of foxes, but I don't see enough evidence of another secondary, so I'm going for the simplest explanation for now. Nick is good at improvising. He's great at taking information and using the environment around him to shape the outcome he wants. When he first meets Judy, he plays her like a violin. "It's called a hustle, sweetheart." He sells skunk-butt rugs to the mobster. His whole popsicle scam?? Snake, snake, snake. He can talk his way out of pretty much any corner. He can go neutral-state blunt on people, but most of the time, he's charming as hell. Judy teasingly calls him "slick Nick."

TL;DR

Judy Is a shining Lion who grows into a more mature version of her primary by the end, with a Badger secondary that uses hard work and the people around her to accomplish her mission.

Nick starts out a burned Badger primary who eventually finds a home with Judy and the police department. His Snake secondary might just be him playing to what people already think foxes are-- I'd love to hear arguments for another secondary!-- but he seems to use these tools naturally.

#sorting hat chats #shc #lion primary #badger secondary #burned badger primary #snake secondary #zootopia #judy hopps #nick wilde

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reds-burrow · 1 year

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it's interesting that you think of badger as "dog" and snake as "cat", because to me, my snake loyalty to my people manifests itself as very dog-like loyalty. I'm not disagreeing with you, I genuinely think it's interesting!

(This ask is in response to this post.)

Is there a difference in loyalty? I guess cats are generally more independent and subtle in their attachment than dogs. But as far as actual loyalty and devotion, perhaps I’ve simply met different cats than you, but once they devote themselves to someone, I’ve seen cats be as intensely loyal as dogs (and science supports this). When I said Dog and Cat are good alternatives for Badger and Snake respectively, I wasn’t talking about just loyalty, but other behaviors. My apologies for the confusion; I never fully explained my thoughts.

The first part of it has to do with how dogs live in packs, while cats do not. In a sense, dogs are naturally community minded. So, like how the well-being of the community comes before personal wants for Badgers, most dogs can learn to take commands and do what their humans expect from them even if they'd rather jump on the dinner table and eat everything. Cats, however, will do what pleases them before they’ll listen to their human, like how Snakes will prioritize their personal wants. Oftentimes those wants are to take care of their people, just as you can have incredibly friendly, cuddly cats. But it's difficult to get a healthy Snake or a cat to do something that they don't want to without an alternative incentive.

There’s also the fact that many cats are pickier about who they get close to, which I see as reflective of Snake Primaries and their vetting process. You have to earn a cat’s affection, just as you do with Snake Primaries. There’s a reason being chosen by a cat feels similar to being chosen by a Snake. On the other hand, for Badgers, there is already a base sense of loyalty to others, even strangers, simply because they are people, which I find is more similar to how dogs latch onto people. A recent study has suggested that the friendliness that dogs exhibit, a key part of their domestication, came from a similar genetic mutation as what causes Williams syndrome in humans, a disease that (to oversimplify) causes people to look at everyone as a friend. Meanwhile, cats domesticated themselves because they recognized that being around humans gave them an advantage: humans store grain, grain attracts rodents, and rodents make a good meal.

And… It’s not what your ask is about, but if you'll indulge me, I'd like to explain my thoughts on the Secondaries. Yes, Snake and Badger were selected as the HP mascots specifically with the Secondaries in mind, but I think I can make a decent argument for Cat and Dog.

Dogs are pack hunters and display alloparenting. That means they work together, specifically that they invest in each other, taking care of each other’s pups and sharing food resources. I’d argue this is similar to how Badger Secondaries invest in people. Also, most dogs exhibit joy in being given a job to do. Their hard work can vary from actual jobs (service dogs, search and rescue, livestock guardian, etc.) to performing the tricks their humans ask of them.

Cats, however, will do what is easiest to get what they want. A study showed that when given the choice between performing a task to get a treat and simply taking the treat, cats chose the latter. This might sound like the obvious choice, but many animals, including canines, prefer performing a task to get their food, a behavior called contrafeeloading. But cats? They are happy to freeload, even if they’re active and intelligent enough to solve the presented food puzzle.

Then there’s the fact that both cats and dogs have shaped their behavior to better communicate with humans. For dogs, these are mainly instinctual behaviors or literal changes to their form, built into their species over thousands of years, like understanding human pointing from birth and evolving expressive eyebrows to better communicate their feelings to humans. Meanwhile, cats learn to continue meowing past kittenhood, depending on their situation, by reading their humans' reactions. Feral cats don’t meow at the same rate as house cats because adult cats generally communicate through smells instead of sounds. Meowing is something cats developed for humans.

Anyway, I understand if you still consider your loyalty to look more dog-like. Perhaps the subtle affections of cats aren't your style. But I hope you enjoy this alternative way of thinking about things!

#I've been in technical writing mode all week and I think it leaked out here #sorry about that #sortinghatchats #ask response #badger vs snake primary #badger vs snake secondary #badger primary #badger secondary #snake secondary #snake primary

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reading-sometimes · 1 year

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Wreck-it-Ralph Sorting

A basic overview of the SHC system by @wisteria-lodge is here.

Ralph - Badger Lion

The first thing that we see Ralph do in the movie is going to a Bad-Anon meeting. His driving motivation for getting the medal is not because of the medal itself, but for everything that the medal will get him - acceptance from all of the other characters in his game. I did consider Snake primary for Ralph, since his friendship with Venellope and the characters in his game seems to be enough for him, but he's so focused on groups that I settled on Badger.

As for Ralph's secondary, he gets stuff done. He needs a medal? He deliberates about the specifics with Tapper for a bit, and then he climbs a building and goes Turbo to get it, risking his own death. He does have a Snake secondary model that he uses for other things, like taking Markowski's clothes to sneak into Hero's Duty and lying to Venellope about the tree-trimming service when they first meet. He also lies to Felix about how he didn't know that there was a party, and it's worth mentioning that Venellope calls him a liar, but it's not his primary way of doing stuff.

Venellope - Double Lion

Venellope was by far the easiest character to sort for me. I mean, "I know I'm a racer. I can feel it in my code." might be the most Lion primary sentences ever written. Even though everyone else tells her that she's just a glitch, she knows she's a racer. I mean, the first thing that she does when she first meets Ralph is race him for the medal.

And Venellope's secondary? She's a loud Lion secondary. She knows what she wants, and she's not going to back down from it no matter what. She wants to win the race, even if it's on her own.

Felix - Double Badger

Like Ralph, Felix is fixated on groups. He wants to include Ralph at the party, even if it's uncomfortable for both him and the other characters in his game, and he tries very hard to keep the peace.

As for his Secondary, Felix primarily seeks out other people. He finds Calhoun when Ralph's gone Turbo, and coerces her to help him. When he gets to Sugar Rush, the first thing that he does is seek out Sour Bill. I considered an 'I-know-a-guy' Bird, but Felix doesn't collect anything else like how most Bird secondaries do. When he's locked in a dungeon, the first thing that he does is call for help. I think that a Bird Secondary would at least try to look around first.

Calhoun - Badger Lion

She was hard to sort for me, because she's very stereotypical? I mean, she likes groups and bossing people around, so I could say that she's an Authoritarian Badger? Maybe a Snake, since she cares about Felix and her troops? She definitely doesn't like selfish people, judging by her saying that the selfish man is like a mangy dog. I'm going to cautiously say Badger, because when a Cy-bug escapes her game, she goes after it so that the other games don't have to deal with it. Snakes can do that too, obviously, but it wasn't even a question for her.

When Felix enters the game, she first thing that she does is try to shoot at him. I don't think that someone can really get more Lion secondary than that. She's very direct, and gets things done.

#wreck it ralph #shc #sorting hat chat #sorting hat chats #double badger #badger lion #snake secondary #double lion #ralph #Venellope #Calhoun #Felix #disney

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mooglesorts · 1 year

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i have not been active on this blog in a While and being very normal about my old hyperfixation lorien legacies, which has an absolute fuckload of characters to sort, has finally gotten me to crawl out of my hole.

[spoilers ahead for both lorien legacies and its sequel series!]

there is a LOT of ground to cover here, and i am mostly going to limit myself to sorting characters and themes from the first series, but my initial notes are:

probably one of the biggest overarching themes of the series is toxic birdsec, and the harm it can do to every aspect of a society or a person's life--on both a systematic level and an individual one--right down to their basic humanity. by extension it also goes into similarly fucked up lion and bird primary used as weapons and tools of abuse, and how they interplay with each other.

a large part of this stems from setrákus ra being The Worst Fucking Lion Bird Ever to Live, lmao. he's an interesting example of birdsec interplaying with cannibal badger, and also of a lion bird who's a cheetah in that he uses systems as tools to manipulate people instead of actually believing them. he hands out toxic systems like candy while peppering them with outright lies, and blithely admits that even the one that he's put centuries into building--mogadorian progress, and the great book--is at its heart just a ruse to run his cult on. the truth he pretends to worship and champion isn't external, objective truth--it's an extension of him. he is the ultimate truth. and the only truth he believes in is his cause, which is that he has the right and ability to own, make use of, and do whatever he sees fit with everything in existence. everyone and everything that could possibly be a shiny or a tool belongs to him.

one of the other overarching themes is toxic badger primary and secondary--cannibal badgering AHOY--as well as toxic lion primary, and it is a great deal less intentional than the bird cautionary tale part lmao

five is a bird snake with deeply toxic lion primary and bird secondary models, one of which he picked up after getting involved with a cult, and one of which he's had since his abusive birdsec guardian started amputating his masks by trying to apply actor bird to them. :') his brand of birdsplode and snakeburn make him horribly, horribly vulnerable to the cult, especially combined with focused, one-on-one gaslighting and manipulation from setrákus himself, and he has to burn his bird right to a crisp to break away from it. i am very biased and i have so much to say about my boy, but i plan to go in depth about this later

there are a LOT of lionsecs among the loric garde kids. the only surviving ones who aren't lionsecs are marina's badger and five's snake (the latter of which is heavily villainized, lol); number one is either a lionsec or a snakesec, maggie is either a birdsec or a badgersec, and we don't really see enough of hannu to be sure, but my guess is badgersec. in context, whatever these books are saying here i am not sure i like it lmao

this stands in contrast to the non-garde allies, minus adam, who end up being Part of the Gang. sam and lexa are birdsecs, and sarah and malcolm are both badgersecs.

speaking of adam, he is a lion snake with a cool, calculated double bird performance/model, who has been waiting all his life for a chance to go Absolutely Feral. there are a lot of ways in which he's a real shithead, which track given his life and circumstances up to then but are also real 😬 sometimes, but like, good for him. go ape shitt, kid

nine is an awful, AWFUL double lion who models/performs the worst parts of badger primary; he also uses lionsec stereotypes and methods to misdirect people, so that he can hurt, gaslight, prey on, and abuse them. it's genuinely interesting how he does it, and i could go on for a long time about it, but it's also Infuriating because the authors really want you to love him for being a ~charming jerk with a heart of gold,~ so that is for another post. in the sequel series he also picks up a nasty posthumous birdsec model from sandor to gleefully torture children with so lmfao

there seem to be a lot of birdsecs and badgersecs among the mentor cêpans, which tracks, because, well, mentors. interestingly, it seems to be a pattern so far that the birdsec mentors are either some of the most deeply abusive among them (see: rey, sandor, and ethan even though he's an unofficial cêpan), or the most decent parents of them under the circumstances (see: katarina).

john is a hognose (badgery snake) 'i live here' snake lion, and a VERY loud one. he's set on saving the world mainly a) in order to save his People, or b) because it's what they would want. he also believes STRONGLY in snake values as applied to other people, and absolutely cannot grok that anyone would feel differently--he holds back on killing a major enemy because he's worried about killing a friendly acquaintance's Person--and honestly he can be kind of a huge dick about it lmao. he burns HARD at the end of the first series when sarah dies; in the second, he copes by making an entire community into his circle and no longer gives a shit about the rest of the world outside it, including groups who are in similar if not worse circumstances than his community. Horrific War Crimes Ensue!

rex is an everyone double badger and i love him so much. i love him So Much. he is a wonderful example of how to write a morally dubious character whose dodgy qualities interest me instead of making me grit my teeth and Tolerate Them. his arc could have fixed So Much of the Ending's Bullshit and i will be forever mad that they dumped it in the trash

there is more, oh my god there's so much more, this series has SO many characters in it, but this is a start thank you for coming to my ted talk

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sunnyhatchats · 8 months

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the double snake in action

youtube

#iasip #shc #sortinghatchats #snake primary #snake secondary #frank reynolds #Youtube

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thelongestway · 2 years

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Sorting the Slayers: Gourry Gabriev (Initially Burnt Snake Primary (Badger Model)/Snake Secondary)

Sorting Gourry Gabriev (spoiler - he is the chillest Double Snake ever) was difficult for two reasons, one for the Primary, one for the Secondary. First, Gourry's Primary starts out Burnt, even though it's not obvious. Gourry's family continuously fought over the artifact Gourry now carries - the Sword of Light, so he left them and at the start of the show he's just... Drifting and emulating his idea of a noble swordsman - which, tellingly, isn't Idealist (no ideals of Knighthood or Chivalry, even though they are very present in the universe, see bands of would-be heroes), but Loyalist. At the start, Gourry basically presents as a Badger, instantly taking charge of Lina while completely missing that she didn't really need to be taken charge of (for like the first 10 minutes). Notably, the moment Lina shows her true colors, Gourry adapts - just as instantly he begins treating her as an equal. There's no denial, not even a moment of resistance. You change - I change. Another point in favor of Snake Primary is that while Gourry displays a basic level of empathy - he is generally down to help people and is the epitome of Neutral Good - he's just... Not that interested in people outside of his circle. Yeah, he'll be decent to them. Sure. But those he really cares about are right here, and the rest of the world just isn't as important. He sticks by his own through thick and thin. And as the show progresses, Gourry's Snake begins to Unburn through his relationship with Lina - whose toes he never steps on. He is always adapting to her, and is perfectly happy with that, and stays in his own brand of Neutral the rest of the time. For Secondary, the difficult part is that Gourry is the emblematic low Int/high Wis D&D character, which makes it hard to identify a preference for methods. While often presenting as Dumb, Gourry is nevertheless keenly observant, identifying Xellos as a Mazoku well before the rest of the team (mages all!) and Word of God has it that if he had the intellect, he'd be a mage easily as powerful as Lina... But he doesn't. And he doesn't need it to feel good in his skin. He's neither a Bird nor a Badger. He doesn't take pride in working smart or working hard. He's not a Lion, either: he doesn't take the direct way just because he can. Instead, Gourry Gabriev is the chillest Snake Secondary ever. He follows His Person and just takes in life as it comes, rolling with the punches. He fights by observing the enemy and reacting, and he's perfectly happy while His Person is happy. While Gourry doesn't really have masks, he does very consciously allow people to project on him, playing up the stupidity just a little bit, very subtly. He also much more comfortable with the various role-taking hijinks that the crew sometimes gets up than the rest of the team. Unlike a Badger, he doesn't really have to become those things, even though that's sometimes played up for fun - it's very much "that's a presentation", even when he is spouting stock dialogue like "I have no name to give to the likes of you." It's very much not a "I have to believe this myself" vibe. Gourry Gabriev is a "live and let live" grass snake, and he is perfectly fine with that.

#the slayers #gourry gabriev #snake primary #snake secondary #sortinghatchats #character sorting #slayers #sortingtheslayers

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wisteria-lodge · 28 days

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snake primary + neutral snake secondary

Hello. I decided to write this according to the list you gave. I have a huge struggle with my primary. I guess it is burned, but I don’t know what it is, or I don’t want to see it because that hurts my ego if it sounds completely fake or in some way empty, or I just don’t vibe with it. Which I understand is an issue in itself.

An interesting issue. You don’t want a primary assigned to you because you’re worried it’ll sound fake? I’ll keep an eye on that.

For my secondary I guess it is just straight up a lion, mostly being off or burned, burned badger or bird. I definitely use pre-made personas in social or stressful situations, but I prepare so little that I could be anyone.

This sounds like Burnt Bird secondary “I do the Bird secondary thing, but not very well.” Or possibly a Bird secondary model that you wish you didn’t have to use.

Before I have to tell you even if I don’t have clinical depression or a diagnosis, I don’t feel happy, and it probably shows. I am someone who cries every time they see Everything Everywhere All At Once, which at this point probably tells a lot about a person.

… it tells me that you’re very probably neurodivergent. Very possibly ADHD, but I don’t like to diagnose in these things. (Not actually possible anyway.)

Also, heads up for my English, it is nowhere near perfect or fluent, so there might be some annoying mistakes, even though I know you don’t point it out to people. I ran it through a grammar check, but I have little doubt I missed something.

Sometimes I wish I’d care more about other people, about strangers, but I don’t care much naturally, and it becomes even more pronounced when I am stressed or having to spend a lot of my energy outside myself. Then, that gaze towards outside shuts down, and I stop focusing and giving attention to other people.

You’re not naturally a Badger, taking meaning and energy from the community. Snake is absolutely possible, especially with the way Snakes will focus very intensely on their own bodies when they haven’t got a lot of extra energy to spare. Like, sure you’d like to do more, and doing more makes you feel like a good person, but that’s extra.

A co-worker could be talking about their accident and what happened to their family, and I would stare blindly and think to myself they are trying to get sympathy and I would not budge at this point. While more normally I would give them it, even if I didn’t feel sorry for them.

You might also just be low empathy, which is… just kind of a neutral thing. I’m low empathy. A lot of people actually find it comforting that they can be upset around me without getting doubly stressed that they’re making my day worse.

After all, some emotional work needs to be put into maintaining relationships and keeping it alive.

True. And the way you just kind of put that out there as a kind of ‘Rule to Live By’ is actually making me think Bird primary is possible... or a Bird primary model over a burnt primary?

As a kid I was timid, afraid to explore town, thinking someone will come and say I can’t walk there. I was never peaceful, but I followed my mother’s advice to ignore bullies and don’t give them attention. Jokes on me – I never learned how to fight and argue. I remember myself hot headed, attention seeking, trying to talk with others, even making up lies or cutting bangs by myself just so people notice me. But I was always careful not to make trouble for my mother, be safe, get no injuries, clothes fine and without a rip.

I’m leaning more Snake primary for you. Your mother is clearly a very important figure in your life, and what she thinks and values is important, because she thinks it. You ignore bullies, don’t wander, and don’t get in trouble because your Mom told you not to… but there’s still this undercurrent of but I would have liked to. In fact, the way you behave for your mom seems to be very at odds with the “attention seeking” “hot-headed” “notice-me” behavior from the rest of your life. I’m considering Snake secondary (because of the different faces for differnt people) or Lion/Burnt Lion secondary (because you would have liked learning how to fight and argue.)

I was obsessed with Three Musketeers, friendship and finding connection. I would focus on a small group of people or even one person and hold onto it. It started getting really hard time when I had no friends whatever. That pushed me into survival mode and made me quiet and thoughtful.

This focus on small groups of friends is making me really lean Snake primary. (Also, if you’re a Snake Lion, then The Three Musketeers would be *the* perfect media for you.)

I think I solve low-stakes problems with something that looks like a snake or rapid fire bird. I think if I can and have someone close I can call for help, I will. Once in the dorms my European windows fall off the hinges, I couldn’t close it or put it back. I could have definitely done it myself with more time and more focusing and seeing how things work. But I had a friend living there next to me, so I asked them to come. Not that they knew more about windows than I did, but as out both room windows were similar in age maybe they would have a similar issue and know what to do. I don’t think they did, but it was fun and I wish I could do it more - meeting life with your friends and not alone, that’s why I called them. Administration would have been the last resort, they were pretty meh. I think we just ended looking around and putting it back in somehow, just trying to close it in different ways. I was always careful with it after that.

That’s lovely. And… weirdly I think I’m going to put this in for primary, for that whole “meeting life not alone” thing. That’s bigger than just problem solving, that’s getting into why you do things at all.

The actual problem solving seems to be “lets compare the broken window to a similar, not-broken window and see what’s wrong.” There’s a *little* I Know A Guy bird in this ‘who specifically do I know who would be able to solve this problem.’ But I could honestly see coming from any secondary.

In high-stake situations, the most important thing to me is reaching a mental space where I am stable, looking around without panic. That’s why sometimes, instead of pulling an all-nighter before an exam I turned on a movie. I just couldn’t deal with the stress and said bye lol. I didn’t do it all the time, I also studied a lot, alone and with friends, although I cannot say where studying or the movie was more useful. I personally would say in high-stakes situations it’s most critical to try to calm down and manage my stress and anxiety.

This is making me say Improvisational secondary (Lion or Snake.) Extra preparation isn’t going to comfort you, it’s going to mess you up. You’re not a Bird or Badger, who’ll get stressed out if they don’t read their notes over one more time. You want the mental space and agility to correctly read and correctly respond to the situation, and so you’re giving yourself the best chance for that.

I had experience with bad roommates so in dorms I wanted to live alone, not bother or bothering someone. While this opinion wasn’t allowed legally in our college, students would bribe administrator. I hate bribing, giving chocolate for literally noticing me in someone’s place (it’s a bribe older generation does here while asking employees for something they think is a favor, but it’s kind of their job; why don’t we just stop being assholes to each other instead? I am not sure other parts of the world does this so hence the explanation).

It’s interesting. You’re describing bribing, like - yeah you’re breaking the rules… but everyone does it, and everyone knows everyone does it, and to some degree you’re even expected to do it. But even though it’s kind of normal, it still bothers you. And this would bother a Lion secondary (who love to be straightforward and honest) more than it would bother a Snake (who might not even think of giving an administrator a “”gift”” as a bribe.)

As I mentioned earlier, administrator was meh and everyone and their mother knew it, so you can imagine I thought this is big, and I have to survive this and come on top.

This is very Snake primary energy, it has that practicality I absolutely love.

Money, I thought, should be the most useful, but there’s also too much and too little. In short, I sit down, wrote an application, had an envelope in my bag, talked a bit about how I would like to live alone and tried to slip it out of my bag on the table as it was nothing special. The most interesting thing was that he seemed amused all this time, and even then, I had my hair down and had lipstick on, so I don’t know, maybe my baby face looked interesting, or maybe that’s just stress distorting my memories. I was kind of prepared, but not really if you know what I mean, I obviously needed more information, but I was either naïve and thought this will work or this will be enough. In some way I was also mostly thinking I hate this, this either will work with how much I prepared or not, let’s go in and see. Maybe not good enough for sorting according to high-stakes situations but thank gods in some way that the only ones I had are like this one or exams.

Now that I have built your anticipation,

You absolutely have, I am extremely invested in this story.

let’s check together how that ended up for me, shall we? I did get a room for myself, and I really loved the room I got the first year there. Its window opened up to a street, I saw a lot of trees, sky, a neighboring apartment complex that did not belong to college. The bribery? It went well, they were either monitored or they actually meant what they said that they can’t guarantee me anything, and that the college had plans to reduce the available space due to shortage of students. So in the end, I left with my money, a little bruised dignity and a new experience, that I knew I would never want to repeat. We just do what we need to do, and what we are okay about doing, no?

I hate bribery, but I wanted to live alone more, so it weighted over.

Something like that (and this whole story, really) makes me think your primary is fighting with your secondary. You think bribing is wrong, and your Lion secondary hates not just being direct and ASKING for what you want... but you want that private room, so of course you go for it. You had a bad experience in dorms before, you’re going to protect yourself. That’s the decision that you feel best about.

And when it came down to this conversation, you got dressed up, you considered your appearance and how you came across, you thought about what the right level of bribery would be. But in the end, you think that the fact that you looked “interesting” got you through. And “this either will work with how much I prepared or not, let’s go in and see” is SO Lion. It’ll work, or it won’t, it’s out of my hands.

Recently I made a hard decision of whether to go back home or stay. Decisions are hard for me, especially when neither one nor the other option look better. I tried to take all that I have gathered about the situation and see which side is/feels stronger, which one has more value.

I’m starting to see what’s got you confused about your primary. One thing about being in a Snake is that decisions get a lot harder when they don’t affect your personal safety and well-being, or the safety and well-being of your People. You’re making a decision with ALL the tools here - gathering information to know which side is stronger (Bird), asking yourself what side feels stronger (Lion), and also considering which side has more value (depending on exactly what you mean by “value,” this could be Badger or Snake. All those approaching are going to give you slightly different answers.

I left unfriendly environment which saw no value in me or my culture for a more friendly place, where my roots are, where I can make my own decisions, but I had to leave my family. I didn’t feel good there, had no one I wanted to hold onto. But even though I am not a badger, but I am still in a missing people mood.

I bet you are. You’re a Snake, and you don’t have any People right now. (You’re not Burned. You’ve just recently moved to a new place, and don’t have any People yet.)

This was absolutely the Snake decision, also. You didn’t feel valued, so you went where you knew you could set things up the way you like them. You left your family to do it, and sure leaving your family hurts, but I think you would have felt like you’d betrayed yourself if you stayed.

Connection is so human, and we fuck it up so bad from so early on. Does it matter if you still feel alone around people who surround you? It doesn’t, so maybe it’s better to let your family members rest, be somewhere lonely without them and try to do it yourself. Is it already depressing? I am sorry I hope this doesn’t feel like trauma dumping.

Nah, you’re fine. You’re absolutely going to find people you connect to.

My fantasies change with time depending on what inspires and moves me then. I fantasize about a Scandinavian style house, surrounded by snow and a night sky, full of books and huge windows when I just want to run away. Other times I fantasize about being a powerful wizard on the run or in disguise, just trying to live with friends, accepted and running from some kind of huge responsibilities or a war. Not that I never fantasized about something more ambitious, but that probably changed with how my life experiences shaped the worldview I have now. Do I have to mention fantasies of falling in love with someone nice while doing something that I like and brings me joy or is that just basic haha?

The “living with friends/falling in love with someone nice”... that’s very human, but since this significant other person features heavily in a short description of your fantasy, going to put that as a point for Snake primary.

The characters I identify most with probably has nothing to do with me or who I am, more with how I see them. I identify with Lorelai from Gilmore Girls. In my opinion, she has a similar energy to me, to what I think I am inside or could be with a little more stability and confidence. She talks nonsense, and it is fine most of the time, people still like her. She loves her community, her little town, she creates life there and doesn’t wish to leave, and she doesn’t feel a need to run or rush somewhere. I feel I am most healthy and stable when that rush leaves me, and I am stable enough in here and now to actually live there.

I was honestly pretty happy with Lion Secondary as a sorting for you. But now I wonder. This doesn’t seem like something a Lion secondary would say. It seems like a Neutral Snake would say. And Lorelai is a VERY loud Neutral Snake (and a very loud Snake primary.

Now, Lion secondaries can be mellow, and just want to Vibe, but I absolutely do see shape-shifting capabilities from you, and I wouldn’t expect to see them from a Lion (unless you also had models or performances.) When you were a kid you were careful and thinking a lot about the ‘correct’ thing around your mom, but wild around your friends. In the bribing situation you came in with a persona, but then switched around - you’re funny, you’re interesting, you’re naive. Also in the wizard fantasy - you’re running away from the war, you don’t want to deal with it. Lion secondaries tend to fantasize about being revolutionaries or leading armies.

Snake Secondaries who like staying in Neutral have a blunt take-it-or-leave it quality which I do see from you, but you also seem just... kind of tired. Not Burnt, but just kind of done with dealing with a family who makes you feel lonely, an administration who isn’t helpful, an environment that doesn’t value your culture... no wonder you just want the ability to just say whatever, and not have to think about it.

I also think that the lack of a Person (which is a primary issue) is making this whole ask much more ‘authenticity’ flavored than it would be otherwise. You want, you really really desperately want a person to trust enough, and value enough, to be that level of authentic with.

I identify with Joy from Everything Everywhere, because she feels like a friend who doesn’t need you to tell them how you feel in these feeble words, she looks at you, and she knows, the whole movie knows.

You’re fantasizing about someone who just *gets* you, immediately. (You’re fantasizing about a Person.)

Likewise, I identify with Hunter from The Owl House. He says he misses knowing who he supposed to be. He comes from a really unhealthy background, but I just feel happy thinking how not only he himself warms up to people, but others warm up to him, see good in him, accept him and start to care, not how good people care, but how a friend cares. Hahaha, I identify with Pippin from LOTR movies, because he makes mistakes, and everyone around him is like WTF can you not, why don’t you just stand in one place or be tied to a leash? He’s not stupid, he’s not careless, he’s not bad or ignorant per se, mistakes just happen, it’s natural and instead of being made to feel wrong, let’s just not do that and make it normal, because it will happen, and we will learn from our mistakes without pressure or shouting. It’s a miracle Pippin wants to do things after all.

You’re fantasizing about getting a group of People. Don’t think it’s at all a coincidence that both the Owl House and the Lord of the Rings focus on a small, rag-tag group of people who don’t quite fit, for one reason or another. I also think you’ve probably been dealing with someone who does not react to *normal* mistakes in a healthy way. So of course Pippin and Hunter would be comforting.

Things that make me feel powerful? Money, having choices, being able to say no, I will not do anything of what you suggest and instead do this completely different thing. Because I can, because I want it, because I can see I will succeed, I will make it. I can choose to do things my way. You need money or other resources to be able to do that. Calling a plumber and being able to pay them would make me more powerful than waiting for someone I know do me a favor based on our relationship. While not being able to select what I want, or having crappy choices wherever I look makes me feel locked up and incredible passive. To quote the quiz, helplessness doesn’t make me angry, it freezes m, but I don’t get angry.

Damn. Yeah, I don’t know what I can say to any of that. What is power? Money, and the ability to say no. And really, when you get down to it - money is important when it allows to say no. The more you can say no, the more powerful you are.

Recently graduating was the most difficult thing I had to do. I had little to no help, big expectations from the board and little freedom on what decision I could make. Myself already being anxious about what I will do in the future and this major giving me panic attacks in the making did not help focus and do it right. I wonder would it have been better if I majored in something I loved but was kind of useless, than something I hated but what is seen as practical and marketable.

There really isn’t a right answer there. Not everyone needs to love their job, but some do. Some people are fine without a steady paycheck, or without a large paycheck - but some aren’t. Any decision that involves the future like that is going to be a gamble. And I guess I’m at the point now, with how fast the world and the economy is changing, that trying to guess what will be practical and marketable ten years down the line - isn’t nearly as sure a thing as it used to be.

From what I’ve gathered, thesis can feel useless. I knew a guy who paid someone to write it for him, and honestly with my own experience I wouldn’t care about ethics of it now and would have rather done that if I could have a chance. In the end, how exactly writing your last paper, thesis shows your skills? Sure, you can follow academic paper writing rules, you can use computer, you can read and gather information from research papers, and you can ignore your anxiety and interview people, interpret their answers and have enough skill in a language you are using to not only make sense but follow all the rules. I guess you can use the skills somewhere; I am just talking myself out of this idea. Wait, if someone who never majored in your area and does not have the skills you worked for, can write you a paper and write it good, it’s not an excellent way to evaluate someone.

Yeah, Snake secondary for sure. And what can I say, you make a compelling case. The structural problems in academia, the classism, the behind-the-times - it’s very much still there, and there are lots of people who can talk about it much better than I can.

My friends were busy with their own stuff, my family were far away and with a big generational gap, professors didn’t help and then evaluated me strangely. It was really hard to see a person I knew for a few years, liked, wanted to impress be against me. Sorry I am tired, but I really needed to write something, and this seemed like a good thing to occupy myself with. Off course, I don’t know how you feel about academic unfaithfulness, but from my perspective, my experience was shitty enough that I wouldn’t give a flying sausage if there would be a next time, especially if I did everything else the right way. I really don’t know how much it was me, because it was me in some ways, but I still think my supervisor didn’t help me, but was ready to judge me. She probably felt she wasn’t paid enough to deal with my problems then. Right. You know what I want to do now? I want to never look back, never get back there, and never even touch this major. I want to leave it in the past and start anew. I want to be able to choose and not be tied to it.

Spoken like a snake secondary. And no wonder why you seem so tired. Also, being treated badly by your advisor is going to hurt anybody... but ESPECIALLY a snake primary.

Thank you for your time. Have a great day. Or night.

I will. :) Thanks for writing in.

#submission #sortme #wisteria sorts #shc #sortinghatchats #snake primary #snake secondary #lion vs snake secondary #double snake #neutral snake

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