#sorry for tagging this as byler but i feel like this is relevant to the lesbyler uptick

[silverliing]

why is genderbending bad? /gen

This is kind of a loaded question and I will answer it to the best of my abilities and through my own understanding of genderbending and gender identity politics but if you don’t want to read all that i’ll just leave you with the short answer: It’s complicated. I don’t think “genderbending” is inherently a bad thing (i do it) what i do take an issue with is the actual name of this trend as well as some of the rhetoric and ideas about gender that run rampant along it that have largely been ignored or gone unchallenged.

I also do not think that the bulk of this work has been made with malicious intent, rather just out of ignorance in a cissexist society. so yeah, complicated. I would also like to point out that I am gender non-binary and identify as trans, so these are just my personal thoughts regarding this type of content in fandom spaces and the ways I think it (more often than i’d prefer) plays into the erasure of trans and intersex identities from the conversation and can perpetuate cissexist ideas of gender and gender identity.

Anyways, long answer is long so more after the cut -> -> ->

For starters I think the most egregious thing to me about this whole genderbend thing is the name. now, i absolutely hate the name because genderbending is never just about changing a characters gender is it? what we generally understand as genderbending in fandom is typically the changing or switching of a character’s sex from male to female or from female to male and assigning to them the gender that “matches” their sex. And if this is exactly what you’re trying to do then that’s fine! i don’t want to be the arbitrator of what people can or can’t do in fandom spaces so… just maybe call it what it is? maybe also understand how this trend feeds into the rhetoric that gender is a binary and how it conflates sex and gender as if they were interchangeable or one and the same as well as perpetuating some outdated and ill informed views on sex, gender and sexuality too!(since typically when a character gets genderbent their sexuality changes as well)

There’s a lot of discourse on this very topic and much of it might probably disagree with me on these points so i encourage everyone to seek alternative opinions on the matter, but from my own understanding of gender, gender identity and gender expression, i find that the idea of “genderbending” —in the ways it has been traditionally done by fandoms— can have some cissexist implications:

It implies that there are only two genders which are opposite from each other, and that those are (generally cis) “male” or (generally cis) “female”.

Gender is not a binary and gender is a social construct. this is something that psychologists, anthropologists, sociologists, biologists, gender theorists and medical professionals have all agreed upon for decades. The thing that happens in genderbending where a character can only jump from fully mature phenotypical male “man” to a fully mature phenotypical female “woman” (or vice versa) without any wiggle room in between is ill-informed at best. And then there are people who will say “oh well that’s not true because i saw a non-binary intersex genderbend once!” and all i have to say to this is… okay. Yes this kind of NB “genderbend” does exist but it’s is not the norm. For the most part when looking up the genderbend tag will generally bring up a lot of stereotypically female petra parkers and harriet potters, and this is just the truth.

It implies that physical traits and gender are related.

Usually this type of work will have things like a tall, flat chested, muscly “masculine” character switch genders to become short, curvy, large breasted, “feminine” one (usually without any regard to how that character’s personality and lifestyle affect their physical attributes) typically the act of genderbending will come along with changes to a characters genitalia, gender markers, and phenotype, not just their gender. I trust you understand how this idea is inherently cissexist and reinforces the thought that things like the set of genitals you were born with ought to dictate the gender you identify as. This also gets into the territory of intersex erasure. Since our society has yet to come to a consensus of how intersex individuals ought to look like (and how could they!) it is less likely that you will find a genderbend that envisions a character as intersex given that genderbending isn’t just about changing someone’s gender but also making them look the part. Which is a whole other can of worms because what does a woman or a man look like? what does an intersex or a non-binary or an agender person look like? these nuances often get pushed to the side in genderbending. And if you have found genderbent art or fanfic that subverts all of these trends that’s awesome! But again, it’s still not the norm.

I know this one sounds bad, but there are some arguments against it that are very valid to me; namely that although not every trans person’s goal is to appear cis-passing, there are some trans folk whose goal is to look as cis as possible and their visions and fantasies of what their ideal gender presentation ought be reflected in this type of art is imo quite valid.

It implies that someone “changing genders” can be reduced to a thought experiment.

Maybe this isn’t the best wording but it’s when you see genderbend being done as a way to explore how a character would be different if they had just been born in a different body. This one doesn’t sound too bad, it’s just a little thought experiment right? and in a way it is but i still want to bring it up because again, it assumes that being born with a specific set of physical attributes will dictate a persons gender. This also could imply that anyone who identifies with a gender that is different to the one they were assigned at birth does not have an equally as meaningful relation to their own gender as someone who was born with the “right” set of genitals. It is also kind of funny to me that some of these genderbenders who just want to do a thought experiment with their blorbo would want to see said blorbo navigating the “opposite” gender from a cis perspective. Now i don’t have any sources to back me up on this but i’m just going to assume that between a trans person and a cis person, the individual who is most likely to be aware of gender identity politics is probably not going to be the cis person. just make the character trans just make them trans

Why I do it

Literally i had not thought about this topic in over a decade, and i had no genuine interest in seeing characters under this type of lens since i was like 12. However, the idea for lesbyler was born as a response to the critiques toward byler fans that said the ship would not be so popular if they had been two girls instead of two boys. I guess you could say it started as a joke or out of spite but in my personal case (which i know is true for many others in the fandom) it became a way to project my own sapphic youth into a ship that is so special to me. Of course i would love them more if those characters had been written as girls! Byler has such a soft spot in my heart because it’s the story of my first love —its the story of a lot of peoples first love— and so in that vein i thought it was permissible to make it all the more mine. I did not entertain the thought of “making” them girls because girls are the opposite of boys and i thought that was cool, or because i wanted to see lesbian rep instead of gay rep, i entertained the thought of two lesbian best friends navigating first love because it’s the story i would have liked to see in a show like stranger things.

Furthermore, i also do not see my lesbyler characters as inherently cis, I still see them as an offshoot or extension of the original characters, so in my head they’re just inherently trans. Of course that is just me and there is nothing wrong if you prefer to see them as cis as long as you understand the aforementioned discussions of gender at play.

Am I also perpetuating the harmful rhetoric by indulging in this type of trend regardless of my intent? Maybe. It’s so hard to put yourself on blast but I will for a second here. I think the vast majority of this type of content is ill-informed, but i don’t think the bulk of it was made with the intent of harming minorities, so i don’t think making it is inherently bad. I think what can be harmful is to have these ideas go unchallenged in this specific trend where they would have been more widely addressed if it were on any other more publicly available platform, and i think that talking about it and bringing this topic up when i make this type of work is a good opportunity to make others aware how cissexism can be perpetuated even in the ways we interact with fandom.

I don’t believe i am spreading hate or harm when i make this type of work, but maybe i’ll cringe at this and change my opinions for the better in the future who knows. All i’m saying is that i think the best way to approach this trend is through information and awareness and on that regard i do consider myself more well-read on this topic than your average joe 🤷🏻

There’s many people that will disagree with me who will say genderbending is more harmful than i claim it to be or that it is not wrong at all, so i would just like to reiterate that this is all based on my experience, understanding, and knowledge on the topic of both genderbending and gender identity politics.

One more time I don’t think imagining a character as a different gender is inherently bad but i do think that a lot of the ideas perpetuated by fandom genderbending are some of the same rhetoric and propaganda that has been used to erase and harm trans and intersex individuals.

Last thing and i am saying all of this in good faith, if you ever looked at my lesbyler (or any genderbent art really) art and thought “those characters are cis girls”, or that they had to have been “born” girls because the opposite of boy is girl, i would like you to consider and challenge why you had those thoughts. Maybe even question why little compulsory cissexist thoughts like those are part of our every day lives. I also just want to say that if you want to make genderbend art or fic go for it, but I do strongly urge you to first consider understanding and acknowledging the arguments i’ve made here. Just know what you’re getting into and know that there is more than meets the eye with this topic. aaaand just remember that these arguments feel hidden and compulsory for a reason, cissexism is everywhere, even in fandom spaces.

Also there’s a chance you’ll probably go your entire fandom career without ruffling anyones feathers about it but i would just advise to be careful, be respectful and know when to apologize and move on. And most importantly don’t forget that trans, non-binary, intersex, agender, gender fluid, etc. identities exist so there’s a lot more options and experiences for you to think about if you do decide to play with the gender and identity of a character.

#sorry for tagging this as byler but i feel like this is relevant to the lesbyler uptick #let me know what other tags i should add pls #byler #lesbyler #millow #genderbend #gender #gender discussion

[jaegerisim]

Vent post y'all are gonna hate me for.

I viscerally hate how the Duffers treat most of their non white or queer characters and I hate even more viscerally, how y'all big byler blogs in your circle jerk of other 5 big byler blogs casually like to ignore many red flags the show has.

Y'all like to say: "tHe DufFeRs ArE gReAt WrIteRs" and it's like girl, who are you lying to??? They aren't top shit writers at all. The Duffers are pretty mid imo. Yeah, they run a good show that's fun to watch and theorize abt , but that doesn't mean they're good writers cuz they're not.

1. they completely side lined Will during s3 for the sake of their straight romances: lumax, jancy, mlvn, duzie and partly stobin (even if stobin wasn't endgame, thankfully, Steve's intentions were clearly wanting to date Robin and they gave it a lot of screen time). Will was sidelined bc he didn't fit the straight romance plotline bc they planned to make him gay or whatever. Now in s4 Will and his feelings have been used as mlvn toilet paper. Yes, we like to say this is build up for byler but canonically, Will's feelings have been used to clean the shit mlvn leaves behind.

2. Billy was sympathized a lot during the last 2 seasons. They gave him the sad backstoryTM in order for ppl to feel sorry for him. Billy's backstory is literally Jonathan's but whatever.

3. El's anger issues are constantly girlboss-ified. They down play her bullying situation and literally just use it for El to be a ''girlboss" without realizing how triggering that is. As someone who has lived bullying, seeing it be ignored by canon and fanon is super sad. The whole Rink-O' Mania experience must have been so traumatizing for her yet, everyone absolutely forgets abt it 🤷🏻‍♀️

4. Robin, Erica and Argyle are stereotypical characters. Robin is the quirky lesbian with social anxiety, Erica is the badass black woman and Argyle is the Latino stoner that sells weed to white kids and works as a pizza delivery guy.

5. Altho Argyle and Eddie both do drugs, (Eddie actually sells K-12 to a minor and nobody batted an eye. He has a huge fan base). Eddie is held in a pedestal bc "poor thing 🥺 he lives in a trailer with his uncle 🥺". Tell me a single fact you know abt Argyle that isn't "he smokes weed", "he is Jonathan's only friend", "drives a van" and "he works at a pizzeria". Exactly, Eddie is given a useless backstory and Argyle isn't.

6. Dustin stopped being important to the plot sometime around s2 and s3. He is only there to curse and be mildly funny. My guy needs to hangout with ppl his age cuz he only hangs out with seniors.

7. El needs to stop having so much "I'M THAT BITCH" screentime like I need in s5 for El's arc to not just be her becoming more powerful and falling in love with Mike. I need the Duffers to explore her trauma and problems.

8. Angela should have been run over by the van.

9. Patrick should have been given a backstory that isn't the basic "strict black parents that hit their kids cuz they are a disgrace". Patrick's backstory is actually racist af, fight w the wall.

10. As Lex already said, they didn't trigger tag the ep where Jason and his friends assault Lucas and Erica. Like wtf? Why was that necessary? Why did I have to see a black boy being held at gunpoint by some white guy?? Was it relevant to the plot?? I don't think so. And then I've got to see ppl online be like "Jason wasn't that bad. He was just mourning" like bitch you can stfu. This is what happens when you make the racist assholes conventionally attractive.

Also the fact that Lucas's arc is fulfilled by him fist-fighting Jason and "embracing his weirdness" aka accepting he is black. His arc was not fulfilled at all cuz that ending spoke so loud to me. It showed how little empathy ppl have towards the struggles poc ppl living in the Midwest have. Y'all circle jerks can only see racism when it's super obvious.

Furthermore, parents complained when ST showed "an excessive amount of smoking" yet nobody batted an eye when Billy tried to run over Lucas, when Erica (an 11 y.o ffs) was chased by white kids or when Lucas was held at gunpoint by Jason.

All of this happened while they focused on Max's guilt and mourning that, yeah, are important but certainly not less important than racism!!!

11. In s3, they gave us that whole Nancy vs The Bigots arc that was honestly just triggering and useless. It didn't help Nancy's character at all, quite the opposite it put unnecessary angst.

12. Lonnie being presented as an abuser just for him to never be spoken of again. Can we please get to explore the trauma he left the Byers's with?

13. The fact that both queer relationships are considered "sloppy seconds" is extremely sad. Both Vickie and Mike are rebounding from their failed relationship with Robin and Will. These 2 ships have caused more commotion than Jancy and Jopper together! (These last ships are technically sloppy seconds too but everybody forgets that. Shocker!!)

14. Last but not least, ppl blame Argyle for being the one to get Jonathan into smoking weed as if Jonathan probably wasn't the one looking for it. Let me tell you, that you only find weed if you look for it.

#P.S: I'm gonna pay attention to how many ppl send me hate bc of this or block me #stranger things #lucas sinclair #st vickie #robin buckley #jason stranger things #will byers #dustin henderson #eddie munson #argyle #jonathan byers #erica sinclair #byler #← target audience #byler target audience

[strawberrybyers]

a rant i guess

idk i wish people could just let others enjoy things. i find it very unnecessary to harass people or post in a tag that is relevant to something you don’t like 🙄 never once in the many years i have had social media have i ever felt the need to purposefully seek out something i dislike to harass the people in that fandom. there’s a shit ton of fandoms out there for things i don’t care or know about and guess what? i mind my business. i post what i like. it gets very annoying that every fandom revels in toxicity and stan wars like chill out? have a good time? isn’t there enough bad shit going on? i haven’t had social media in awhile because i got tired of people taking away the happiness i felt from things i enjoyed. it no longer felt like we were all connecting on something we enjoyed, but became obsessed with attacking others for liking one thing and disliking another. i created a tumblr account over a week ago because i missed talking to people about my interests. also the fixation for stranger things was taking over hardcore and i’m sure the people i know irl were tired of me talking about it 😂 but idk maybe because i’m 21 i don’t have the energy to engage in negativity anymore and just want to have a good time and i’m all about blocking whatever makes me uncomfortable. the byler tag is one of the safe spaces for me on here and i’m sure it is for other people also. some people like byler because they see how it perfectly fits into the storyline, some people are queer and care about queer rep, like there’s tons of reasons why people care about byler and not once have i seen anyone that supports byler say anything harmful (it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist just because i haven’t seen it, i’m just saying so far everyone seems nice and cool). and in my opinion, the ones actually being harmful are the ones who are homophobic, seeking attention, and clearly feel so insecure with themselves they feel the need to attack others who are having fun. anyways sorry this is long i’m just getting a little annoyed lol. also worried that as we get closer to friday and on the day of, the posts/comments are going to get worse. pls for the love of god let people enjoy things and especially let queer people talk about queer ships.

#byler

[proud-losers]

Mileven and Byler outcome depictions in episode of All My Children

So, this is my first contribution to the Byler/Byeler tag. I was recently very inspired by @kaypeace21 to dig deeper into Stranger Things, since, after watching season 3 and noticing some things more strongly, I wanted to get much closer to the series than I previously was. I’m also quite new to using tumblr and sharing, so sorry in advance if I mess up something or someone’s already covered everything here! Or if I don’t exactly explain well enough what’s in my head.

There’s this moment in episode 2 of season 2 where El is watching television and one of the channels shows an episode of All My Children (and this episode would’ve been released around the time El is watching it, so that’s very good homework done by the Duffers). What I have is obvious where Mileven and Byler are concerned on the surface level, and after reading kaypeace’s content, but I think these are cool additions to what she talks about so here I go anyway:

The full scene goes as follows:

Alright, now to unpack.

The Duffers said they showed El watching Frankenstein (in this same episode) to depict how El feels like a monster, so why wouldn’t this episode of All My Children contain some sort of deeper significance? This one clip both describes and foreshadows what happens in season 3 between Mike and El and what will happen later between Mike and Will.

I did some research on the background of this All My Children episode’s context and realized the episode El is watching comes after Erica Kane, the woman in-scene, loses her husband in a tragic accident (in which he did not actually die, but this is irrelevant to the main points I’m drawing) and rather quickly gets involved with a man whose name happens to be Mike (same man in-scene). Erica and Mike get together quickly after Erica’s husband’s “death,” and Mike wants her to marry him very shortly after they meet—too quickly after and even during a tragic circumstance. It’s reminiscent of the way in which El gets together with Mike: quickly and born out of tragic circumstances. The word “impetuous,” is specifically highlighted in the scene. It means to be impulsive, rash, hasty: all perfect descriptors of how fast El and Mike supposedly ‘fell in love’ and get together.

It is also important to note that, with Mike’s proposal, the scene’s dialogue cuts off before Erica agrees. The audience isn’t allowed to hear it, which seems intentional. Perhaps because El will move away from her relationship with Mike. Because Mileven won’t be together in the end, just as Erica and Mike ultimately aren’t together in the end either.

When it comes to associating the two Mikes, it’s incredibly interesting that Erica not only says her Mike’s proposal is sudden but is also ‘not like him.’ Fans of All My Children say Mike professes his ‘undying love’ for Erica very shortly after their meeting; again, it’s too quick of a confession, and how can he already be so sure his love is so undying and true? Mike says he is this way—“wild and impetuous”—because Erica made him that way. Now, based on kaypeace’s posts regarding Mike Wheeler’s sexuality and not truly being in love with El but rather Will (example: https://kaypeace21.tumblr.com/post/186074563119/yeah-mike-is-in-denial-and-lying-about-being-in), Mike is with El because there is security with her. It is ‘not like him’ to be in this sort of [heterosexual] relationship in which he is only in it—impetuously so—because of El (highlighted gesture El makes to herself while saying “Me?”), or rather he is ‘this way’ because of the idea of her.

Segway to the highlighted line: “People are going to be aghast.” This line gives me two interpretations, likely going hand-in-hand. Mike and El being together in season 3 do cause a number of “aghast” reactions: Dustin calling it out as “bullshit,” Hopper not finding their relationship normal, Max not approving of the way El is treated, etc. People should be ‘loving it,’ the perceived normalcy of it from Mike’s perspective perhaps, but this relationship is ill-fitting. Even the kiss El initiates in the finale of season 3 shows a very obviously discomfited and confused Mike; he could be thinking ‘I should be loving it,’ and yet it would just not be like him to love it because he is not truly in love with El. There’s also the thought of the aghast reactions toward Byler when it comes about, because it will ‘stun the whole town [Hawkins]/the whole world [viewers perhaps?].’ What of the “they’re gonna love it” line then? The people who matter are going to love them.

There’s certainly more that can be expanded on here, though I think reading kaypeace’s stuff shows the expansions clearly already. Even without the background context, however, just the dialogue alone and the words El highlights points to her relationship with Mike + eventual Byler. I wouldn’t put it past the Duffers to have made this intentional with the background context regardless, since they went as far as to carefully select this particular episode that played in the fall of 1984. Of any other romantic soaps that could’ve played for El, why one with this sort of context that is relevant to El, Mike, and Will? It’s yet another thing in Stranger Things that consistently hints to what’s coming next with these characters, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

#byler #byeler #go read kaypeace21's metas and theories